help with network router and cable ISP

Discussion in 'Computer Support' started by wsotw, Feb 20, 2007.

  1. wsotw

    wsotw Guest

    Hi there,

    I need/would like a little bit of help.

    A friend of a friend has recently switched from adsl to cable ISP.
    All this info is being passed to me by my friend. I have not actually
    seen the equipment in use, although I have checked out the netgear
    router on an ordinary lan.

    When they were on adsl they used a netgear router with wireless
    connection to their laptop. All worked fine.

    Now they are with cable and have the webstar modem. Initially they just
    plugged the rj45 patch cable into the nic on the laptop and off it
    works.

    They now want to use the netgear router as a wireless hub. The idea
    being that it is just being used as a hub so the connections need no ip
    info etc. from the netgear router, but should simply get them from the
    webstar by passing through the netgear router hub/wireless lan section.

    So..

    Without physical connection to internet, the routers wireless connection
    was setup and works. The router was configured on IP address
    192.168.0.200 with subnet of 255.255.255.0 (the laptop having been given
    a static ip for this procedure), the dhcp switched off (I thought that
    leaving at the standard private ip of 192.168.0.1 may cause conflicts
    with the webstar).

    The laptop was then reset to obtain an ip address and server details
    automatically, replugged into the webstar and it works.

    When the cable from the webstar is plugged into a lan port on the router
    and a cable from the computer to a lan port it works fine.

    However when we try the wireless connection we get nothing, not even and
    ip address assigned to the laptop.

    Now when the laptop is connected to the webstar an IP of 82.39.x.x with
    a subnet of 255.255.248.0 is given.

    So, to me the problem is with the wireless connection. Now, this is the
    first time I have dealt with a wireless connection. Does such a
    connection simply work on the mac or does it have an ip address before
    it will talk to the hub?

    If the latter and given that the ip address is not static, can I change
    the ip address and subnet of the router, and if so, as I must give a
    static ip to the router, what can/do I change them to?

    Or is this simply not possible using a wireless connection in this way?

    any help/comment would be appreciated


    thanks

    --
    wsotw
    wsotw, Feb 20, 2007
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. wsotw

    g.man Guest

    are you using the same router that was on adsl
    if so thats your problem you need a cable router

    "wsotw" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hi there,
    >
    > I need/would like a little bit of help.
    >
    > A friend of a friend has recently switched from adsl to cable ISP.
    > All this info is being passed to me by my friend. I have not actually
    > seen the equipment in use, although I have checked out the netgear
    > router on an ordinary lan.
    >
    > When they were on adsl they used a netgear router with wireless
    > connection to their laptop. All worked fine.
    >
    > Now they are with cable and have the webstar modem. Initially they just
    > plugged the rj45 patch cable into the nic on the laptop and off it
    > works.
    >
    > They now want to use the netgear router as a wireless hub. The idea
    > being that it is just being used as a hub so the connections need no ip
    > info etc. from the netgear router, but should simply get them from the
    > webstar by passing through the netgear router hub/wireless lan section.
    >
    > So..
    >
    > Without physical connection to internet, the routers wireless connection
    > was setup and works. The router was configured on IP address
    > 192.168.0.200 with subnet of 255.255.255.0 (the laptop having been given
    > a static ip for this procedure), the dhcp switched off (I thought that
    > leaving at the standard private ip of 192.168.0.1 may cause conflicts
    > with the webstar).
    >
    > The laptop was then reset to obtain an ip address and server details
    > automatically, replugged into the webstar and it works.
    >
    > When the cable from the webstar is plugged into a lan port on the router
    > and a cable from the computer to a lan port it works fine.
    >
    > However when we try the wireless connection we get nothing, not even and
    > ip address assigned to the laptop.
    >
    > Now when the laptop is connected to the webstar an IP of 82.39.x.x with
    > a subnet of 255.255.248.0 is given.
    >
    > So, to me the problem is with the wireless connection. Now, this is the
    > first time I have dealt with a wireless connection. Does such a
    > connection simply work on the mac or does it have an ip address before
    > it will talk to the hub?
    >
    > If the latter and given that the ip address is not static, can I change
    > the ip address and subnet of the router, and if so, as I must give a
    > static ip to the router, what can/do I change them to?
    >
    > Or is this simply not possible using a wireless connection in this way?
    >
    > any help/comment would be appreciated
    >
    >
    > thanks
    >
    > --
    > wsotw
    g.man, Feb 20, 2007
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. wsotw

    Gordon Guest

    g.man wrote:

    > are you using the same router that was on adsl
    > if so thats your problem you need a cable router


    If you read the OP you would have seen that the OP HAS a Cable modem which
    he plugs into the router - standard practice.
    Gordon, Feb 20, 2007
    #3
  4. wsotw

    Desk Rabbit Guest

    Gordon wrote:
    > g.man wrote:
    >
    >> are you using the same router that was on adsl
    >> if so thats your problem you need a cable router

    >
    > If you read the OP you would have seen that the OP HAS a Cable modem which
    > he plugs into the router - standard practice.

    And if you had read you would see that the original router was an ADSL
    router and the OP is plugging the cable modem into the LAN interface
    which will not work.

    g.man is right if the OP indeed has a router with a built in ADSL modem
    (Thats my definition of an ADSL router).

    The OP needs a router with an ethernet WAN port based on the information
    given and without the model numbers of the devices in question being given.
    Desk Rabbit, Feb 20, 2007
    #4
  5. wsotw

    wsotw Guest

    In article <>, Desk Rabbit
    <> writes
    >Gordon wrote:
    >> g.man wrote:
    >>
    >>> are you using the same router that was on adsl
    >>> if so thats your problem you need a cable router

    >>
    >> If you read the OP you would have seen that the OP HAS a Cable modem which
    >> he plugs into the router - standard practice.

    >And if you had read you would see that the original router was an ADSL
    >router and the OP is plugging the cable modem into the LAN interface
    >which will not work.
    >
    >g.man is right if the OP indeed has a router with a built in ADSL modem
    >(Thats my definition of an ADSL router).
    >
    >The OP needs a router with an ethernet WAN port based on the information
    >given and without the model numbers of the devices in question being given.


    yes it is an adsl router a (dg534 I think) , but I am not and don't want
    to use the wan port on it. I simply want to use the hub and wireless
    access point of it.

    This works if it's connected by an rj45 cat5 cable. it's only when
    trying to use the wireless access point that it doesnt work.

    The question I suppose is really "Can the Netgear Router be configured
    as a Wireless access point only?" and without having to setup ip address
    etc. for it.


    --
    wsotw
    wsotw, Feb 20, 2007
    #5
  6. wsotw

    why? Guest

    On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 13:20:55 +0000, wsotw wrote:

    >Hi there,
    >
    >I need/would like a little bit of help.
    >
    >A friend of a friend has recently switched from adsl to cable ISP.


    So the IP address looks like Blueyonder. There are quite a few BY
    support newsgroups.

    Going with the BY theme, you need a Broadband Wireless router.

    >All this info is being passed to me by my friend. I have not actually
    >seen the equipment in use, although I have checked out the netgear


    Wot no model / version?

    >router on an ordinary lan.


    That would be as a switch on the 4 LAN ports, not as a router then?

    >When they were on adsl they used a netgear router with wireless
    >connection to their laptop. All worked fine.
    >
    >Now they are with cable and have the webstar modem. Initially they just
    >plugged the rj45 patch cable into the nic on the laptop and off it
    >works.


    It would. It's designed that way.

    >They now want to use the netgear router as a wireless hub. The idea
    >being that it is just being used as a hub so the connections need no ip
    >info etc. from the netgear router, but should simply get them from the


    It doesn't work that way.

    >webstar by passing through the netgear router hub/wireless lan section.


    If I didn't say so before, it doesn't work that way.

    BY can only have 1 device connected to the Webstar, so you can't use the
    router in your hub mode. The 1 connected device is the WAN port of the
    router.

    Webstar RJ45 UTP - to Broadband router WAN port - Router 4 LAN ports to
    PCs.

    The router gets the BY address details, the 82.x.x.x. IP on it's WAN
    interface. The router passes some of the info like DNS to the PCs along
    with the router private 192.168.x.x type IP addresses to the PC.

    >So..
    >
    >Without physical connection to internet, the routers wireless connection
    >was setup and works. The router was configured on IP address
    >192.168.0.200 with subnet of 255.255.255.0 (the laptop having been given
    >a static ip for this procedure), the dhcp switched off (I thought that
    >leaving at the standard private ip of 192.168.0.1 may cause conflicts
    >with the webstar).


    No, don't mess with that stuff.

    What normally happens, assuming BY again. If the BY cable signal is lost
    the Webstar may act as a DHCP server, (that's the way my Surfboards have
    worked), but as you can't have multiple devices normally this isn't an
    issue. Since you need a router for multiple PCs it's DHCP handles all
    that.

    >The laptop was then reset to obtain an ip address and server details
    >automatically, replugged into the webstar and it works.


    It would. It's designed that way. But you said that already.

    It's easier to leave the PC always at DHCP, doing that gets an IP
    directly from the Webstar or from the router.

    >When the cable from the webstar is plugged into a lan port on the router
    >and a cable from the computer to a lan port it works fine.


    That's just for any hardwired PC, but then you can only use that method
    with 1 PC IIRC it's been years since doing that.

    >However when we try the wireless connection we get nothing, not even and
    >ip address assigned to the laptop.


    It's not routing as the Webstar is not connected to the router vis the
    WAN port.

    >Now when the laptop is connected to the webstar an IP of 82.39.x.x with
    >a subnet of 255.255.248.0 is given.


    Your point there is? That's just the IISP P settings.

    >So, to me the problem is with the wireless connection. Now, this is the
    >first time I have dealt with a wireless connection. Does such a
    >connection simply work on the mac or does it have an ip address before
    >it will talk to the hub?


    A wireless IP/MAC works the same as the wired connection. A PC requests
    a valid IP via DHCP.

    <snip the rest>

    Me
    why?, Feb 20, 2007
    #6
  7. wsotw

    wsotw Guest

    In article <>, why? <fgrirp*sg
    c@VAINY!Qznq.fpvragvfg.pbz> writes
    >
    >On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 13:20:55 +0000, wsotw wrote:
    >
    >>Hi there,
    >>
    >>I need/would like a little bit of help.
    >>
    >>A friend of a friend has recently switched from adsl to cable ISP.

    >
    >So the IP address looks like Blueyonder. There are quite a few BY
    >support newsgroups.
    >
    >Going with the BY theme, you need a Broadband Wireless router.
    >

    were trying to avoid the extra expense of buying another router just to
    get a wireless connection when they already have one (albeit in an adsl
    router)

    >>All this info is being passed to me by my friend. I have not actually
    >>seen the equipment in use, although I have checked out the netgear

    >
    >Wot no model / version?
    >


    dg834m I think

    >>router on an ordinary lan.

    >
    >That would be as a switch on the 4 LAN ports, not as a router then?
    >

    yes

    >>When they were on adsl they used a netgear router with wireless
    >>connection to their laptop. All worked fine.
    >>
    >>Now they are with cable and have the webstar modem. Initially they just
    >>plugged the rj45 patch cable into the nic on the laptop and off it
    >>works.

    >
    >It would. It's designed that way.
    >
    >>They now want to use the netgear router as a wireless hub. The idea
    >>being that it is just being used as a hub so the connections need no ip
    >>info etc. from the netgear router, but should simply get them from the

    >
    >It doesn't work that way.


    but it does if a physical wire is used
    >
    >>webstar by passing through the netgear router hub/wireless lan section.

    >
    >If I didn't say so before, it doesn't work that way.
    >

    I know you said that.

    >BY can only have 1 device connected to the Webstar, so you can't use the
    >router in your hub mode. The 1 connected device is the WAN port of the
    >router.
    >
    >Webstar RJ45 UTP - to Broadband router WAN port - Router 4 LAN ports to
    >PCs.
    >
    >The router gets the BY address details, the 82.x.x.x. IP on it's WAN
    >interface. The router passes some of the info like DNS to the PCs along
    >with the router private 192.168.x.x type IP addresses to the PC.
    >


    that's the normal way (even with adsl) fully understand that and have a
    friend has that same setup using multiple pc's on his connection.

    >>So..
    >>
    >>Without physical connection to internet, the routers wireless connection
    >>was setup and works. The router was configured on IP address
    >>192.168.0.200 with subnet of 255.255.255.0 (the laptop having been given
    >>a static ip for this procedure), the dhcp switched off (I thought that
    >>leaving at the standard private ip of 192.168.0.1 may cause conflicts
    >>with the webstar).

    >
    >No, don't mess with that stuff.
    >

    not a problem, I didn't realise at the start that the webstar did not
    use the private address range

    >What normally happens, assuming BY again. If the BY cable signal is lost
    >the Webstar may act as a DHCP server, (that's the way my Surfboards have
    >worked), but as you can't have multiple devices normally this isn't an
    >issue. Since you need a router for multiple PCs it's DHCP handles all
    >that.
    >

    there is only one pc is this setup, it's just that we want to use the
    wireless connection (built in to the current router) rather than a
    physical one and

    >>The laptop was then reset to obtain an ip address and server details
    >>automatically, replugged into the webstar and it works.

    >
    >It would. It's designed that way. But you said that already.
    >
    >It's easier to leave the PC always at DHCP, doing that gets an IP
    >directly from the Webstar or from the router.
    >
    >>When the cable from the webstar is plugged into a lan port on the router
    >>and a cable from the computer to a lan port it works fine.

    >
    >That's just for any hardwired PC, but then you can only use that method
    >with 1 PC IIRC it's been years since doing that.
    >
    >>However when we try the wireless connection we get nothing, not even and
    >>ip address assigned to the laptop.

    >
    >It's not routing as the Webstar is not connected to the router vis the
    >WAN port.
    >

    and yet when physically attached it does.

    >>Now when the laptop is connected to the webstar an IP of 82.39.x.x with
    >>a subnet of 255.255.248.0 is given.

    >
    >Your point there is? That's just the IISP P settings.

    just given the details as I had thought about maybe giving the router an
    ip address within the same range, but as the address is not static how
    do I know which one to give to the router (as it would be static) and of
    course you just know that at some point the one I picked would then be
    assigned to the webstar/pc.

    >
    >>So, to me the problem is with the wireless connection. Now, this is the
    >>first time I have dealt with a wireless connection. Does such a
    >>connection simply work on the mac or does it have an ip address before
    >>it will talk to the hub?

    >
    >A wireless IP/MAC works the same as the wired connection. A PC requests
    >a valid IP via DHCP.
    >

    therefore logic suggests it should work as it works when physically
    connected.

    this is the one bit I don't understand. simply why the wireless
    connection doesn't work when the physical one does.

    Ultimately, I think this person is going to have to either put up with
    the physical cable or buy a cable router.

    The whole reason for this BTW is that Telewest gave her a patch cable to
    go from the webstar to her laptop which was a whole half a metre. As
    she has no desk/work area (she used to use the wireless connetion and
    sit with the laptop on her lap) it's hard to support the laptop in
    midair and use it :)

    Thanks for replying



    --
    wsotw
    wsotw, Feb 20, 2007
    #7
  8. wsotw

    why? Guest

    On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 19:05:54 +0000, wsotw wrote:

    >In article <>, why? <fgrirp*sg
    >c@VAINY!Qznq.fpvragvfg.pbz> writes
    >>
    >>On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 13:20:55 +0000, wsotw wrote:
    >>
    >>>Hi there,
    >>>
    >>>I need/would like a little bit of help.
    >>>
    >>>A friend of a friend has recently switched from adsl to cable ISP.

    >>
    >>So the IP address looks like Blueyonder. There are quite a few BY
    >>support newsgroups.
    >>
    >>Going with the BY theme, you need a Broadband Wireless router.
    >>

    >were trying to avoid the extra expense of buying another router just to
    >get a wireless connection when they already have one (albeit in an adsl
    >router)


    It's not an issue of expense it's simply the correct router for the new
    connection.

    >>>All this info is being passed to me by my friend. I have not actually
    >>>seen the equipment in use, although I have checked out the netgear

    >>
    >>Wot no model / version?
    >>

    >
    >dg834m I think


    Better.

    >>>router on an ordinary lan.

    >>
    >>That would be as a switch on the 4 LAN ports, not as a router then?
    >>

    >yes


    Ah isn't guessing fun.

    >>>When they were on adsl they used a netgear router with wireless
    >>>connection to their laptop. All worked fine.
    >>>
    >>>Now they are with cable and have the webstar modem. Initially they just
    >>>plugged the rj45 patch cable into the nic on the laptop and off it
    >>>works.

    >>
    >>It would. It's designed that way.
    >>
    >>>They now want to use the netgear router as a wireless hub. The idea
    >>>being that it is just being used as a hub so the connections need no ip
    >>>info etc. from the netgear router, but should simply get them from the

    >>
    >>It doesn't work that way.

    >
    >but it does if a physical wire is used


    For 2 or 3 PCs or just the 1? BY accounts unless business or otherwise
    are a single DHCP IP. So with 1 PC it works.

    >>>webstar by passing through the netgear router hub/wireless lan section.

    >>
    >>If I didn't say so before, it doesn't work that way.
    >>

    >I know you said that.


    Just making sure.

    >
    >>BY can only have 1 device connected to the Webstar, so you can't use the
    >>router in your hub mode. The 1 connected device is the WAN port of the
    >>router.
    >>
    >>Webstar RJ45 UTP - to Broadband router WAN port - Router 4 LAN ports to
    >>PCs.
    >>
    >>The router gets the BY address details, the 82.x.x.x. IP on it's WAN
    >>interface. The router passes some of the info like DNS to the PCs along
    >>with the router private 192.168.x.x type IP addresses to the PC.
    >>

    >
    >that's the normal way (even with adsl) fully understand that and have a
    >friend has that same setup using multiple pc's on his connection.


    So no need to change this as you did then.

    >>>So..
    >>>
    >>>Without physical connection to internet, the routers wireless connection
    >>>was setup and works. The router was configured on IP address
    >>>192.168.0.200 with subnet of 255.255.255.0 (the laptop having been given
    >>>a static ip for this procedure), the dhcp switched off (I thought that
    >>>leaving at the standard private ip of 192.168.0.1 may cause conflicts
    >>>with the webstar).

    >>
    >>No, don't mess with that stuff.
    >>

    >not a problem, I didn't realise at the start that the webstar did not
    >use the private address range


    It does, in fact there are several MAC addresses and IPs as there are
    several interfaces.

    It's been a long time, since I last looked at this. There is an internal
    to BY 172 address, the your LAN 192.168.100.1 (something for the
    internal webserver) the rest of that range for it's DHCP and then at
    least a 3rd is the pass through of the public 82.x.x.x public range.

    Then the usual router webpage 192.168.0.1, or similar.

    The Webstar to the router (routing processes) handles things for you.

    >>What normally happens, assuming BY again. If the BY cable signal is lost
    >>the Webstar may act as a DHCP server, (that's the way my Surfboards have
    >>worked), but as you can't have multiple devices normally this isn't an
    >>issue. Since you need a router for multiple PCs it's DHCP handles all
    >>that.
    >>

    >there is only one pc is this setup, it's just that we want to use the
    >wireless connection (built in to the current router) rather than a
    >physical one and


    Got that, that's why you need a broadband ethernet router.

    >>>The laptop was then reset to obtain an ip address and server details
    >>>automatically, replugged into the webstar and it works.

    >>
    >>It would. It's designed that way. But you said that already.
    >>
    >>It's easier to leave the PC always at DHCP, doing that gets an IP
    >>directly from the Webstar or from the router.
    >>
    >>>When the cable from the webstar is plugged into a lan port on the router
    >>>and a cable from the computer to a lan port it works fine.

    >>
    >>That's just for any hardwired PC, but then you can only use that method
    >>with 1 PC IIRC it's been years since doing that.
    >>
    >>>However when we try the wireless connection we get nothing, not even and
    >>>ip address assigned to the laptop.

    >>
    >>It's not routing as the Webstar is not connected to the router vis the
    >>WAN port.
    >>

    >and yet when physically attached it does.
    >
    >>>Now when the laptop is connected to the webstar an IP of 82.39.x.x with
    >>>a subnet of 255.255.248.0 is given.

    >>
    >>Your point there is? That's just the IISP P settings.

    >just given the details as I had thought about maybe giving the router an
    >ip address within the same range, but as the address is not static how


    Don't go there, you really want to risk using the address of another
    user? The ISP will give you a helping hand with that one.

    The IP address of the router (WAN port is the ISP DHCP address, it's the
    1 device / interface connected to the ISP) is less of an issue using
    only the LAN ports and not using the correct model for a broadband
    ethernet connection.

    If you add a 2nd PC to another LAN port I would expect it not to work.
    The 1 PC when it does work will have the ISP assigned IP, add a 2nd PC
    and check what happens to the 1st by comparing the ipconfig/all output.

    That's not a LAN or WAN connection routing at that point, just the 4 LAN
    ports ascing as a shared connection.

    >do I know which one to give to the router (as it would be static) and of
    >course you just know that at some point the one I picked would then be
    >assigned to the webstar/pc.


    You are going off course here. You need to get the correct type of
    router and all the isues go away.

    >>
    >>>So, to me the problem is with the wireless connection. Now, this is the
    >>>first time I have dealt with a wireless connection. Does such a
    >>>connection simply work on the mac or does it have an ip address before
    >>>it will talk to the hub?

    >>
    >>A wireless IP/MAC works the same as the wired connection. A PC requests
    >>a valid IP via DHCP.
    >>

    >therefore logic suggests it should work as it works when physically
    >connected.


    Why?

    >this is the one bit I don't understand. simply why the wireless
    >connection doesn't work when the physical one does.
    >
    >Ultimately, I think this person is going to have to either put up with
    >the physical cable or buy a cable router.
    >
    >The whole reason for this BTW is that Telewest gave her a patch cable to
    >go from the webstar to her laptop which was a whole half a metre. As


    As they do, remember it's only meant for 1 device. Sharing / ROuters
    aren't supported however much they are allowed.

    >she has no desk/work area (she used to use the wireless connetion and
    >sit with the laptop on her lap) it's hard to support the laptop in
    >midair and use it :)
    >
    >Thanks for replying


    ( I haven't tried this as I manage with an wireless access point plugged
    into my router and the wireless link to a wireless router. The router is
    either an extension to current LAN 192.168.0.x or a totally different
    192.168.2.x and setting up RIP to exchange routing info)

    - Is get a cheap single port wireless access point plug that into the
    webstar as the ISP device. The AP feeds the ISP IP to a laptop. Just
    tried it for fun.

    Surfboard SB5101E (Blueyonder) - hardwired - Belkin F5D7130 Wireless
    Range Extender/AP , wireless to Dell 1501. Works fine.


    YW

    Me
    why?, Feb 20, 2007
    #8
  9. wsotw

    why? Guest

    On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 13:20:55 +0000, wsotw wrote:

    >Hi there,
    >
    >I need/would like a little bit of help.
    >
    >A friend of a friend has recently switched from adsl to cable ISP.
    >All this info is being passed to me by my friend. I have not actually
    >seen the equipment in use, although I have checked out the netgear
    >router on an ordinary lan.


    Since cable modem to LAN side of router to 1 PC(laptop) works.

    Replace the laptop by a 2nd PC running ICS or other connection sharing
    software. So the ISP LAN is on NIC 1 and it's shared out a private LAN
    to NIC 2 into which you plug a wireless access point / wireless dongle
    which connects the laptop.

    <snip>

    Me
    why?, Feb 20, 2007
    #9
    1. Advertising

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

It takes just 2 minutes to sign up (and it's free!). Just click the sign up button to choose a username and then you can ask your own questions on the forum.
Similar Threads
  1. Stephen
    Replies:
    3
    Views:
    1,273
  2. Skybuck Flying
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    4,798
    Skybuck Flying
    Jan 19, 2006
  3. Mbt6

    DNS Error with Router and Cable ISP

    Mbt6, Aug 30, 2004, in forum: Computer Information
    Replies:
    1
    Views:
    3,853
    Pa-nedjem-a X
    Aug 30, 2004
  4. Kazonme
    Replies:
    3
    Views:
    468
    steve
    Mar 5, 2005
  5. Replies:
    7
    Views:
    1,127
Loading...

Share This Page