Help to get history on computer,bank account been emptied

Discussion in 'Computer Security' started by S S, Jul 6, 2006.

  1. S S

    S S Guest

    This is my situation....
    My wifes internet bank account got a few £k stolen from it, this only
    happened over the last few days. She is in denial that she opened any
    `dodgy` emails or links to anywhere. The police and the bank are involved
    and we should get the money paid back. I will reformat the computer very
    soon as a precaution, however before I do that I would like if it is at all
    possible to backtrack her history of emails/web sites/links and see if I can
    find anything that may indicate where this went wrong.
    Currently on the system are Sygate firewall and AVG anti virus also run
    spybot every so often and using windows XP.
    Any help with this would be appreciated.
    thanks
    S S, Jul 6, 2006
    #1
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  2. S S wrote:
    > This is my situation....
    > My wifes internet bank account got a few £k stolen from it, this only
    > happened over the last few days. She is in denial that she opened any
    > `dodgy` emails or links to anywhere.


    Eh... wrong attitude! The bank has to prove that she initiated the money
    transfer. Or did you actually sign something?

    > I will reformat the computer very
    > soon as a precaution, however before I do that I would like if it is at all
    > possible to backtrack her history of emails/web sites/links and see if I can
    > find anything that may indicate where this went wrong.


    So why don't you create an image of the harddisk first and analyze it later?

    > Currently on the system are Sygate firewall and AVG anti virus also run
    > spybot every so often and using windows XP.


    translated: You don't have any clue about computer security and
    intentionally fucked up your system. One can get you at least
    partitially liable for the damage.
    Sebastian Gottschalk, Jul 6, 2006
    #2
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  3. S S

    Jim Watt Guest

    On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 13:06:01 +0200, Sebastian Gottschalk
    <> wrote:

    >> Currently on the system are Sygate firewall and AVG anti virus also run
    >> spybot every so often and using windows XP.

    >
    >translated: You don't have any clue about computer security and
    >intentionally fucked up your system.


    ignore Gottschalk as he hasn't got a fucking clue

    If you believe your computer is the problem, formatting the hard disk
    is not a good idea as it will remove evidence. Buy a new HD and
    install that, the cost is minimal

    Some banks require that you run anti-virus software and a firewall
    and you have done so.

    The bank should be able to provide information on what has happened
    and you are more likely to get sense from them and the police.
    --
    Jim Watt
    http://www.gibnet.com
    Jim Watt, Jul 7, 2006
    #3
  4. S S

    S S Guest

    "Jim Watt" <_way> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 13:06:01 +0200, Sebastian Gottschalk
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >>> Currently on the system are Sygate firewall and AVG anti virus also run
    >>> spybot every so often and using windows XP.

    >>
    >>translated: You don't have any clue about computer security and
    >>intentionally fucked up your system.

    >
    > ignore Gottschalk as he hasn't got a fucking clue
    >
    > If you believe your computer is the problem, formatting the hard disk
    > is not a good idea as it will remove evidence. Buy a new HD and
    > install that, the cost is minimal
    >
    > Some banks require that you run anti-virus software and a firewall
    > and you have done so.
    >
    > The bank should be able to provide information on what has happened
    > and you are more likely to get sense from them and the police.
    > --
    > Jim Watt
    > http://www.gibnet.com


    Thanks guys....
    As it turns out there was a few accounts in the area were emptied all from
    the same bank/branch and so far the police think someone has accessed the
    banks system and got the information from there and not via the internet,
    they have then gone on to use the info to access the accounts over the
    internet. The bank has reimbused the money.
    S S, Jul 7, 2006
    #4
  5. Jim Watt wrote:

    > Some banks require that you run anti-virus software and a firewall


    Bullshit.

    A) Name one.

    B) Tell us how any bank could even know you're complying (the real
    reason no bank actually does this).

    And none of your little kiddie game "my bank does it but I won't tell
    you because it's insecure" bullshit either Watt. Stand up like a man
    for a change and actually try and SUPPORT one of your asinine claims.
    George Orwell, Jul 8, 2006
    #5
  6. S S

    Jim Watt Guest

    On Sun, 9 Jul 2006 00:48:25 +0200 (CEST), George Orwell
    <> wrote:

    >Jim Watt wrote:
    >
    >> Some banks require that you run anti-virus software and a firewall

    >
    >Bullshit.
    >
    >A) Name one.


    HSBC

    "By installing anti-virus software and making sure that it is running
    at all times, you will help to protect your system from known viruses
    aimed at compromising your PC which can be sent via attachments within
    emails or by disk. This is a vital piece of software to have and to
    use. Also it's important to keep this software up to date to protect
    against more recent viruses. You can usually do this by accessing
    downloads from your anti-virus software supplier.

    Using anti-virus software will reduce the chances of people being able
    to fraudulently capture your PBN, memorable answer or PIN/Password, or
    being able to access your computer whilst you are logged on to
    Internet Banking."

    >B) Tell us how any bank could even know you're complying (the real
    >reason no bank actually does this).


    If they require things you must do, and you don't then in the event
    of a problem they have a let out.

    >And none of your little kiddie game "my bank does it but I won't tell
    >you because it's insecure" bullshit either Watt. Stand up like a man
    >for a change and actually try and SUPPORT one of your asinine claims.


    You are just upset because I didn't tell you my secure method of
    generating passwords. Get over it and don't be so offensive.
    --
    Jim Watt
    http://www.gibnet.com
    Jim Watt, Jul 9, 2006
    #6
  7. Jim Watt wrote:

    > >> Some banks require that you run anti-virus software and a firewall

    > >
    > >Bullshit.
    > >
    > >A) Name one.

    >
    > HSBC
    >
    > "By installing anti-virus software and making sure that it is running
    > at all times, you will help to protect your system from known viruses
    > aimed at compromising your PC which can be sent via attachments within
    > emails or by disk. This is a vital piece of software to have and to
    > use. Also it's important to keep this software up to date to protect
    > against more recent viruses. You can usually do this by accessing
    > downloads from your anti-virus software supplier.
    >
    > Using anti-virus software will reduce the chances of people being able
    > to fraudulently capture your PBN, memorable answer or PIN/Password, or
    > being able to access your computer whilst you are logged on to
    > Internet Banking."


    I'm sorry nitwit, but where in there do you read anything about
    REQUIRING customers to have or run anything at all?

    That would be nowhere. It's a suggestion. Advice. And good advice at
    that. But it's not in any way anything that anyone but the dumbest or
    most straw grabbing reader could ever interpret at a REQUIREMENT.

    So are you stupid enough to misread it as some sort of decree, or are
    you so desperate to prop up your idiotic spew you'll embarrass yourself
    by trying to pawn it off on others as a decree?

    > >B) Tell us how any bank could even know you're complying (the real
    > >reason no bank actually does this).

    >
    > If they require things you must do, and you don't then in the event
    > of a problem they have a let out.


    Tappity tap tap... nice little dance recital there Jimmy, but you
    failed to answer the question. How can they possibly know what sort of
    firewall/AV you're running, if any at all?

    Even if there IS a problem, how will they know? Are you stumbling
    through life under the false assumption AV and firewalls are bullet
    proof?

    > >And none of your little kiddie game "my bank does it but I won't tell
    > >you because it's insecure" bullshit either Watt. Stand up like a man
    > >for a change and actually try and SUPPORT one of your asinine claims.

    >
    > You are just upset because I didn't tell you my secure method of
    > generating passwords. Get over it and don't be so offensive.


    I'm not upset about anything. You're an incompetent, dishonest prat
    who just talked himself into another corner trying to impress someone
    with fabricated nonsense. All I'm doing is clearing the air by pointing
    it out, and all you're doing is making yourself look like a jackass
    again by "defending" your nonsense with the most idiotic irrelevancies
    and pathetic smoke and mirrors attempts you've tried to hide behind to
    date.

    By the way, you weren't busted and embarrassed over generating
    passwords, you were busted and embarrassed over storing and recalling
    them. You claimed it would be some huge problem to have to change
    passwords, like you were memorizing them, and then proved yourself
    wrong by tucking tail and running from simple questions like what sort
    of method you use to "remember" the 100 or so passwords you CLAIM you
    have to remember.

    You lied Jimmy, and got caught. Just like you blurted out this little
    bit of misinformation and got caught. And once again you're forced into
    damage control mode. Except you really suck at damage control so the
    more you try and gain back ground the more you loose.

    Here's a little thought for you to mull over.... why not just admit you
    "overstated" the situation when you said banks required something? Why
    not just admit penciling in a different password in your little black
    book, or whatever you use, wouldn't be any "huge problem" at all?

    Why not help YOURSELF by just being an honest poster for a change?
    George Orwell, Jul 9, 2006
    #7
  8. S S

    Jim Watt Guest

    On Sun, 9 Jul 2006 19:05:08 +0200 (CEST), George Orwell
    <> wrote:

    <snip>

    You asked for a bank that require their clients to use AV
    software on PC used for electronic banking.

    HSBC do, but you need to open an account to see
    the exact wording as its in the signup procedure..

    I don't see any point in wasting time on 'nobodies'


    --
    Jim Watt
    http://www.gibnet.com
    Jim Watt, Jul 10, 2006
    #8
  9. Jim Watt wrote:

    > On Sun, 9 Jul 2006 19:05:08 +0200 (CEST), George Orwell
    > <> wrote:
    >
    > <snip>
    >
    > You asked for a bank that require their clients to use AV
    > software on PC used for electronic banking.
    >
    > HSBC do, but you need to open an account to see
    > the exact wording as its in the signup procedure..


    What a steaming crock.

    They require no such thing Jimmy. You're a liar. Your own cite proves
    you wrong, so now you're ducking back behind your tired old "secret
    decoder ring" shuck and jive.

    There is no on line bank that requires it's customers to have firewalls
    and antivirus for two reasons. It's an undue imposition on their
    customers, and it's technically and logistically impossible for any
    banking site to enforce such a ridiculous requirement. Period.

    > I don't see any point in wasting time on 'nobodies'


    You just got spanked by this 'nobody' Jimmy. Real bad. Where's that put
    YOUR sorry ass on the evolutionary ladder, eh? :)
    George Orwell, Jul 10, 2006
    #9
  10. S S

    Jim Watt Guest

    On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 04:01:56 +0200 (CEST), George Orwell
    <> wrote:

    >Jim Watt wrote:
    >
    >> On Sun, 9 Jul 2006 19:05:08 +0200 (CEST), George Orwell
    >> <> wrote:
    >>
    >> <snip>
    >>
    >> You asked for a bank that require their clients to use AV
    >> software on PC used for electronic banking.
    >>
    >> HSBC do, but you need to open an account to see
    >> the exact wording as its in the signup procedure..

    >
    >What a steaming crock.
    >
    >They require no such thing Jimmy. You're a liar. Your own cite proves
    >you wrong, so now you're ducking back behind your tired old "secret
    >decoder ring" shuck and jive.
    >
    >There is no on line bank that requires it's customers to have firewalls
    >and antivirus for two reasons. It's an undue imposition on their
    >customers, and it's technically and logistically impossible for any
    >banking site to enforce such a ridiculous requirement. Period.
    >
    >> I don't see any point in wasting time on 'nobodies'

    >
    >You just got spanked by this 'nobody' Jimmy. Real bad. Where's that put
    >YOUR sorry ass on the evolutionary ladder, eh? :)


    You clearly have some problem with understanding things
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    http://www.us.hsbc.com/1/2/3/personal/inside/securitysite/your-responsibility

    Protect Your Computer:

    Install Firewall software on your home and networked computers to
    prevent unauthorized individuals from gaining access to your
    computer system to use files, obtain personal information or to
    destroy computer data. This is especially important on computers
    that use a broadband connection to access the Internet (Cable modems
    or DSL).

    Since your Internet connection is on when your computer is on, the
    risk for malicious activity to your computer increases. Three
    popular sources for firewall software are Symantec, McAfee and
    Computer Associates®.

    Run an Anti-Virus program on your computer on a regular, frequent
    basis to prevent computer viruses or worms from entering your
    computer system. Purchase programs that automatically upgrade your
    virus protection on a regular basis.

    Don't share access to your computer with strangers. Disable the
    'File and Printer Sharing' capabilities on your computer to prevent
    anyone on the Internet from browsing or deleting your computer
    files. Check your computer's User Guide for instructions specific
    to your setup, or go online to the manufacturer for instructions.

    Regularly check your computer manufacturer's (hardware/operating
    system) Web site for"patches" and"updates" to your system or
    browser to insure your computer system has the latest security
    upgrades installed.

    Learn about computer infections and be aware of the latest computer
    viruses , worms , Trojan Horses and other malicious programs
    designed to damage your computer or steal your personal information.

    Don't open e-mail or e-mail attachments from unknown sources.
    Scan e-mail through your anti-virus software first.

    EXTRACT FROM TERMS OF SERVICE

    2 YOUR SECURITY DUTIES - TO KEEP YOUR INTERNET BANKING SECURE

    2.1 You agree to comply with the Terms and the security procedures
    detailed in them. You also agree to comply with any instructions or
    recommendations we may issue to you from time to time about
    security when using the Service or the Website.

    2.2 You must keep all your Security Details secure and secret at all
    times and take steps to prevent unauthorised use of them. For
    example:

    (a) Never write or otherwise record any Security Details in a way
    that can be understood by someone else.
    (b) Never tell any of your Security Details to anyone else including
    our staff.
    (c) Destroy any advice from us concerning your Security Details
    promptly after receipt.
    (d) Avoid choosing Security Details which may be easy for others to
    guess. Never record any of your Security Details on any software
    which retains it automatically (for example, any computer screen
    prompts or `save password' feature or the like on your internet
    browser).

    2.3 You agree that you will only access the Service using a computer
    which has installed on it up-to-date anti-virus and anti-spyware
    software, a firewall and security patches.

    2.4 Once you have logged on to the Service, you must not leave the
    internet terminal at any time or let anyone else use the internet
    terminal until you have logged off the Service. You will be
    responsible for ensuring that you have logged off the Service and
    closed down the browser you have used for connection to that service
    at the end of any session.

    2.5 You must not access the Service from any computer connected to a
    local area network (LAN) or public internet access device or access
    point without first making sure that no one else will be able to
    observe or copy your access to the Service by pretending to be you.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Their security advice is applicable to other situations, however
    in the terms of service which as I have previously mentioned one
    accepts in order to use the service, its a requirement rather than
    a suggestion.

    Feel free to discuss the merits of clause 2.3 with HSBC as you
    will no doubt claim I am making it up - however its exactly as
    stated in my original posting.

    And you are still a nobody.

    Jim Watt http://www.gibnet.com

    "Arguing with anonymous strangers on the Internet is a sucker's game because
    they almost always turn out to be - or to be indistinguishable from - self-righteous
    sixteen-year-olds possessing infinite amounts of free time."

    .... Neil Stephenson, Cryptonomicon
    Jim Watt, Jul 10, 2006
    #10
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