HELP: have to pass MCSD 70-315!!!!

Discussion in 'MCSD' started by P, Feb 26, 2005.

  1. P

    P Guest

    Two weeks ago I had no experience in programming at all. To get a
    particular jobcontract, I had to get two certifications in one month.
    The first was the SCJP (Sun Certified Java2 Programmer) and the other is
    MCSD 70-315. I studied about ten days for SCJP and passed it with a
    score of 78%. But now I only have two weeks left for passing the MCSD
    exam. At "my work", they gave me this book for studying:

    MCAD/MCSD Self-Paced Training Kit: Developing Web Applications with
    Microsoft® Visual Basic® .NET and Microsoft Visual C#® .NET, Second Edition

    http://www.microsoft.com/MSPress/books/6714.asp

    They told me that should be enough to study for the exam. But after
    about two days of studying, I started to panic a little bit. They keep
    using code they don't explain. I understand the general story of the
    book, but the details of the code is really Chinese for me. I mean: I
    understand it, but I can never reproduce it myself. And if they will
    ask questions like they did on the SCJP exam where it's important to see
    why a certain code wouldn't compile or to see what the result would be,
    I don't think I will be able to do that, just by studying this book.

    So, my question is actually: knowing my background in programming and
    stuff like that, do you people think the book I'm talking about is good
    enough to prepare me for the 70-315 exam? Or would you recommend me an
    other book? And is it important or not that I learn how to write the
    code myself for the exam? Or that I really understand the code?

    And one other thing: I'm using that book, but I don't have a copy of the
    Visual Studio.NET program. They assured me it's not necessary to have
    that program for passing the exam, is that true?


    Thank you very much for helping me out!!

    Kind regards,

    Paul
     
    P, Feb 26, 2005
    #1
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  2. P

    P Guest

    Oh, I have one more question...

    I can't find the details about the test. By Googling, I found the
    passing score is 700. I suppose that means you have to answer 70% of
    the questions correctly. Is that true? But what I didn't find: how
    many questions will there be? And how much time will I get for it?

    Thank you very very very much

    Paul
     
    P, Feb 26, 2005
    #2
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  3. P

    Tom Dacon Guest

    Re: have to pass MCSD 70-315!!!!

    This is one of the finest trolls I've ever seen on this newsgroup. I'm just
    slack-jawed in admiration. On the goofiest day I ever had, I couldn't have
    come up with something like this.

    Tom
     
    Tom Dacon, Feb 26, 2005
    #3
  4. It's a fairly easy test. It contains 43 multiple choice questions.
    Nevertheless, understanding the code in the book you use (I used the same
    book) is necessary to pass comfortably.
    But if it makes u feel better: I passed it with a 1000, in about an hour,
    and of everybody I know, nobody has flunked the 315 EVER ;-)
    Make sure you pass the questions in the book at the end of every chapter.

    Groeten en succes!


    "P" <"de_polle[geen_spam_gewenst]"@kotnet.org> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Oh, I have one more question...
    >
    > I can't find the details about the test. By Googling, I found the
    > passing score is 700. I suppose that means you have to answer 70% of the
    > questions correctly. Is that true? But what I didn't find: how many
    > questions will there be? And how much time will I get for it?
    >
    > Thank you very very very much
    >
    > Paul
     
    Kevin Meiresonne, Feb 26, 2005
    #4
  5. P

    P Guest

    Re: have to pass MCSD 70-315!!!!

    Tom Dacon wrote:
    > This is one of the finest trolls I've ever seen on this newsgroup. I'm just
    > slack-jawed in admiration. On the goofiest day I ever had, I couldn't have
    > come up with something like this.


    Euhm... Why is that? I have to pass the MCSD-exam, I am asking
    questions about that exam, I'm asking it on the newsgroup
    'microsoft.public.cert.exam.mcsd', I'm asking question I couldn't find
    answers for on the official pages...

    So tell me: what was wrong with my original post? Maybe the questions
    itselves sound stupid for you, but if you would know the reasons why I
    have to pass this exam, you would understand...

    Anyway: thanks to Kevin for answering my questions!

    Greets,
    Paul
     
    P, Feb 27, 2005
    #5
  6. P

    Tom Dacon Guest

    Re: have to pass MCSD 70-315!!!!

    Sorry. I guess you're actually serious. No offense intended. I thought you
    had made up an elaborate joke to infuriate some of the professional
    developers who frequent this newsgroup. Posts from people like that are
    called 'trolls', and are posted just to stir up the works and see if they
    can get other people to fly off the handle. Then the posters, also called
    trolls, just sit back and laugh and watch the fireworks.

    Certified professional software developers consider their certification a
    badge of recognition, that reflects deep knowledge and experience with the
    software development platforms the certification exams test on. Developing
    useful skills as a programmer takes a large, even huge, investment in time
    and study, and professional developers naturally like to protect that
    investment. There are few objective measures of programming skills, and
    something like a MCSD certification is one of the most highly prized. What
    it tells an employer is that you've come to the game ready to play, and
    ready to play at a high level.

    It seems to us, and here I'm taking the liberty of speaking for them too,
    that someone who is completely clueless (as you admit yourself to be) yet
    manages somehow to scramble through a certification test with a passing
    score with no useful ability to apply what they claim to know, does nothing
    but devalue and dilute the meaning of the certification. Suppose that
    magically you manage to scrape by this test (I'll be astonished if that's
    what happens). You apply for another job, proudly displaying your
    certification. Pretty quick, say in less than a week, they discover that you
    can't apply the knowledge that your certification claims you have, in fact
    have no programming experience whatsoever, so they fire you, and rightfully
    so. Now you've poisoned the well. The next guy who comes in their door with
    a certification hasn't a chance with that company, even if he's got a
    century of programming experience.

    See what I mean?

    Tom Dacon
    Dacon Software Consulting


    "P" <"de_polle[geen_spam_gewenst]"@kotnet.org> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Tom Dacon wrote:
    >> This is one of the finest trolls I've ever seen on this newsgroup. I'm
    >> just slack-jawed in admiration. On the goofiest day I ever had, I
    >> couldn't have come up with something like this.

    >
    > Euhm... Why is that? I have to pass the MCSD-exam, I am asking questions
    > about that exam, I'm asking it on the newsgroup
    > 'microsoft.public.cert.exam.mcsd', I'm asking question I couldn't find
    > answers for on the official pages...
    >
    > So tell me: what was wrong with my original post? Maybe the questions
    > itselves sound stupid for you, but if you would know the reasons why I
    > have to pass this exam, you would understand...
    >
    > Anyway: thanks to Kevin for answering my questions!
    >
    > Greets,
    > Paul
     
    Tom Dacon, Feb 27, 2005
    #6
  7. P

    Guest Guest

    Re: have to pass MCSD 70-315!!!!

    The idea that you do not really need Visual Studio.NET or even past
    experience programming to prepare for the MCSD exams leads me to believe
    that your employer would not know their own a$$hole from a hole in the
    ground. Have you ever considered just changing jobs? You are not going to
    learn anything from these people.

    "P" <"de_polle[geen_spam_gewenst]"@kotnet.org> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Two weeks ago I had no experience in programming at all. To get a
    > particular jobcontract, I had to get two certifications in one month. The
    > first was the SCJP (Sun Certified Java2 Programmer) and the other is MCSD
    > 70-315. I studied about ten days for SCJP and passed it with a score of
    > 78%. But now I only have two weeks left for passing the MCSD exam. At
    > "my work", they gave me this book for studying:
    >
    > MCAD/MCSD Self-Paced Training Kit: Developing Web Applications with
    > Microsoft® Visual Basic® .NET and Microsoft Visual C#® .NET, Second
    > Edition
    >
    > http://www.microsoft.com/MSPress/books/6714.asp
    >
    > They told me that should be enough to study for the exam. But after about
    > two days of studying, I started to panic a little bit. They keep using
    > code they don't explain. I understand the general story of the book, but
    > the details of the code is really Chinese for me. I mean: I understand
    > it, but I can never reproduce it myself. And if they will ask questions
    > like they did on the SCJP exam where it's important to see why a certain
    > code wouldn't compile or to see what the result would be, I don't think I
    > will be able to do that, just by studying this book.
    >
    > So, my question is actually: knowing my background in programming and
    > stuff like that, do you people think the book I'm talking about is good
    > enough to prepare me for the 70-315 exam? Or would you recommend me an
    > other book? And is it important or not that I learn how to write the code
    > myself for the exam? Or that I really understand the code?
    >
    > And one other thing: I'm using that book, but I don't have a copy of the
    > Visual Studio.NET program. They assured me it's not necessary to have
    > that program for passing the exam, is that true?
    >
    >
    > Thank you very much for helping me out!!
    >
    > Kind regards,
    >
    > Paul
     
    Guest, Feb 28, 2005
    #7
  8. P

    Emma Burrows Guest

    Re: have to pass MCSD 70-315!!!!

    "P" <"de_polle[geen_spam_gewenst]"@kotnet.org> wrote in message
    news:...
    > So, my question is actually: knowing my background in programming and
    > stuff like that, do you people think the book I'm talking about is good
    > enough to prepare me for the 70-315 exam?


    Personally, I would say no. I had quite a lot of web programming experience,
    but I didn't feel that book was going to get me through the exam at all. I
    subsequently used the Que Training Guide for 70-315 by Amit Kalani (see
    http://tinyurl.com/4rhh7), which made me far more confident, and indeed I
    passed the exam first time. However, it's a hefty training guide, and I
    can't really see anyone working through it in two weeks - the corresponding
    Exam Cram book might be a better choice (search for "Kalani 70-315 exam
    cram" in Amazon).

    > other book? And is it important or not that I learn how to write the
    > code myself for the exam? Or that I really understand the code?


    You definitely need to understand how C# works in order to pass the exam, as
    some questions can contain sample code (including SQL code, while we're on
    the subject of languages you need to know).

    > And one other thing: I'm using that book, but I don't have a copy of the
    > Visual Studio.NET program. They assured me it's not necessary to have
    > that program for passing the exam, is that true?


    "They" don't sound as if they've looked at the name of the exam: "Developing
    and Implementing Web Applications with Visual C# .NET and *Visual Studio
    ..NET*". However, you might be able to make do with just reading about how
    Visual Studio .NET works. This looks like a good place to start:
    http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/using/default.aspx. Concentrate on the C#
    code and how the ASP.NET platform work, though.

    Hmm. I hope I haven't depressed you too much with all this information.
    Everyone is different, and another poster has already assured you that
    everything you need to get 100% on the exam is in the Microsoft Self-Study
    Guide. I just didn't find that to be the case.

    Emma Burrows


    ---
    Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
    Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
    Version: 6.0.854 / Virus Database: 582 - Release Date: 03/02/2005
     
    Emma Burrows, Feb 28, 2005
    #8
  9. Re: have to pass MCSD 70-315!!!!

    Well put!

    Telmo Sampaio
    MCT

    "Tom Dacon" <> wrote in message
    news:%...
    > Sorry. I guess you're actually serious. No offense intended. I thought you
    > had made up an elaborate joke to infuriate some of the professional
    > developers who frequent this newsgroup. Posts from people like that are
    > called 'trolls', and are posted just to stir up the works and see if they
    > can get other people to fly off the handle. Then the posters, also called
    > trolls, just sit back and laugh and watch the fireworks.
    >
    > Certified professional software developers consider their certification a
    > badge of recognition, that reflects deep knowledge and experience with the
    > software development platforms the certification exams test on. Developing
    > useful skills as a programmer takes a large, even huge, investment in time
    > and study, and professional developers naturally like to protect that
    > investment. There are few objective measures of programming skills, and
    > something like a MCSD certification is one of the most highly prized. What
    > it tells an employer is that you've come to the game ready to play, and
    > ready to play at a high level.
    >
    > It seems to us, and here I'm taking the liberty of speaking for them too,
    > that someone who is completely clueless (as you admit yourself to be) yet
    > manages somehow to scramble through a certification test with a passing
    > score with no useful ability to apply what they claim to know, does
    > nothing but devalue and dilute the meaning of the certification. Suppose
    > that magically you manage to scrape by this test (I'll be astonished if
    > that's what happens). You apply for another job, proudly displaying your
    > certification. Pretty quick, say in less than a week, they discover that
    > you can't apply the knowledge that your certification claims you have, in
    > fact have no programming experience whatsoever, so they fire you, and
    > rightfully so. Now you've poisoned the well. The next guy who comes in
    > their door with a certification hasn't a chance with that company, even if
    > he's got a century of programming experience.
    >
    > See what I mean?
    >
    > Tom Dacon
    > Dacon Software Consulting
    >
    >
    > "P" <"de_polle[geen_spam_gewenst]"@kotnet.org> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> Tom Dacon wrote:
    >>> This is one of the finest trolls I've ever seen on this newsgroup. I'm
    >>> just slack-jawed in admiration. On the goofiest day I ever had, I
    >>> couldn't have come up with something like this.

    >>
    >> Euhm... Why is that? I have to pass the MCSD-exam, I am asking
    >> questions about that exam, I'm asking it on the newsgroup
    >> 'microsoft.public.cert.exam.mcsd', I'm asking question I couldn't find
    >> answers for on the official pages...
    >>
    >> So tell me: what was wrong with my original post? Maybe the questions
    >> itselves sound stupid for you, but if you would know the reasons why I
    >> have to pass this exam, you would understand...
    >>
    >> Anyway: thanks to Kevin for answering my questions!
    >>
    >> Greets,
    >> Paul

    >
    >
     
    Telmo Sampaio, Feb 28, 2005
    #9
  10. P

    KMA Guest

    Re: have to pass MCSD 70-315!!!!

    >>Now you've poisoned the well

    Don't get me wrong, I take your point and I think it's a bit unrealistic to
    sit the exams without practise at the IDE, let alone pointless because you
    wouldn't be able to get anything practical done in a commercial
    environment.....BUT

    if HR departments are relying solely on certificates without checking that
    the candidate can actually do the job then they're in for a rocky ride
    anyhow.

    >>There are few objective measures of programming skills


    In a generic sense this is true, but if you're a VS.Net C# house and you're
    looking for developers in this environment then give them a short test to
    make sure they are familiar with the IDE. Something along the lines of a
    Winforms app to convert Celsius to Farenheit. It doesn't have to be
    involved. From my own experience, just telling potential candidates that
    they face such a test as part of the interview scares off most of the paper
    tigers. Of course, it means you reject candidates who were generically good
    programmers but who weren't familiar with a particular IDE, which they
    probably could have learnt fairly quickly. I remember one reply that was
    given to an interviewee who claimed that it didn't matter that he had no
    practical experience in a given language because he "could learn it in a
    month". He was told "OK, see you next month for the test". He never turned
    up.


    "Tom Dacon" <> wrote in message
    news:#...
    > Sorry. I guess you're actually serious. No offense intended. I thought you
    > had made up an elaborate joke to infuriate some of the professional
    > developers who frequent this newsgroup. Posts from people like that are
    > called 'trolls', and are posted just to stir up the works and see if they
    > can get other people to fly off the handle. Then the posters, also called
    > trolls, just sit back and laugh and watch the fireworks.
    >
    > Certified professional software developers consider their certification a
    > badge of recognition, that reflects deep knowledge and experience with the
    > software development platforms the certification exams test on. Developing
    > useful skills as a programmer takes a large, even huge, investment in time
    > and study, and professional developers naturally like to protect that
    > investment. There are few objective measures of programming skills, and
    > something like a MCSD certification is one of the most highly prized. What
    > it tells an employer is that you've come to the game ready to play, and
    > ready to play at a high level.
    >
    > It seems to us, and here I'm taking the liberty of speaking for them too,
    > that someone who is completely clueless (as you admit yourself to be) yet
    > manages somehow to scramble through a certification test with a passing
    > score with no useful ability to apply what they claim to know, does

    nothing
    > but devalue and dilute the meaning of the certification. Suppose that
    > magically you manage to scrape by this test (I'll be astonished if that's
    > what happens). You apply for another job, proudly displaying your
    > certification. Pretty quick, say in less than a week, they discover that

    you
    > can't apply the knowledge that your certification claims you have, in fact
    > have no programming experience whatsoever, so they fire you, and

    rightfully
    > so. Now you've poisoned the well. The next guy who comes in their door

    with
    > a certification hasn't a chance with that company, even if he's got a
    > century of programming experience.
    >
    > See what I mean?
    >
    > Tom Dacon
    > Dacon Software Consulting
    >
    >
    > "P" <"de_polle[geen_spam_gewenst]"@kotnet.org> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > Tom Dacon wrote:
    > >> This is one of the finest trolls I've ever seen on this newsgroup. I'm
    > >> just slack-jawed in admiration. On the goofiest day I ever had, I
    > >> couldn't have come up with something like this.

    > >
    > > Euhm... Why is that? I have to pass the MCSD-exam, I am asking

    questions
    > > about that exam, I'm asking it on the newsgroup
    > > 'microsoft.public.cert.exam.mcsd', I'm asking question I couldn't find
    > > answers for on the official pages...
    > >
    > > So tell me: what was wrong with my original post? Maybe the questions
    > > itselves sound stupid for you, but if you would know the reasons why I
    > > have to pass this exam, you would understand...
    > >
    > > Anyway: thanks to Kevin for answering my questions!
    > >
    > > Greets,
    > > Paul

    >
    >
     
    KMA, Feb 28, 2005
    #10
  11. P

    Tom Dacon Guest

    Re: have to pass MCSD 70-315!!!!

    "KMA" <> wrote in message
    news:cvvim6$d02$-plus.net...
    >
    > In a generic sense this is true, but if you're a VS.Net C# house and

    you're
    > looking for developers in this environment then give them a short test to
    > make sure they are familiar with the IDE. Something along the lines of a
    > Winforms app to convert Celsius to Farenheit. It doesn't have to be
    > involved. From my own experience, just telling potential candidates that
    > they face such a test as part of the interview scares off most of the

    paper
    > tigers. Of course, it means you reject candidates who were generically

    good
    > programmers but who weren't familiar with a particular IDE, which they
    > probably could have learnt fairly quickly. I remember one reply that was
    > given to an interviewee who claimed that it didn't matter that he had no
    > practical experience in a given language because he "could learn it in a
    > month". He was told "OK, see you next month for the test". He never turned
    > up.


    I was a hiring manager at a VB shop some years back. They had a programming
    test that they gave to potential new hires, where they actually had to sit
    down at the IDE and code a working program. The problem was actually pretty
    simple, but you had to think about it a bit.

    I was skeptical of the value of this when I started, but it took no time at
    all for me to be convinced. It was a surprise to me that someone could come
    in with a good resume, could talk the talk, and then completely
    self-destruct when they had to sit down at a computer and write a program.
    I'd give them up to an hour in an unused cubicle, without interruption, and
    it was kind of pathetic to quietly stroll past the door of the cubicle after
    a half-hour and see someone sitting in front of the same three lines of code
    that I had seen fifteen minutes before. A couple of times the candidates
    actually slipped out of the office and left without speaking to me.
    Sometimes a candidate would seem to be insulted that he'd be asked to
    demonstrate his abilities, and would refuse to take the test; out the door
    he went.

    Of course, some people passed the test, and a few of them completely
    demolished it - recursive solutions, well-documented, stuff like that. I
    hired the best of them when I could, and gave the rest of them some
    counseling on getting real experience to match their resumes.

    I also agree with your comments about a certificate being insufficient in
    itself as a qualification. No one would actually hire a programmer based on
    just a certificate. But I stand by my comments about poisoning the well.

    Best regards,
    Tom Dacon
     
    Tom Dacon, Feb 28, 2005
    #11
  12. P

    P Guest

    Re: have to pass MCSD 70-315!!!!

    Tom Dacon schreef:
    > Sorry. I guess you're actually serious. No offense intended. I thought you
    > had made up an elaborate joke to infuriate some of the professional
    > developers who frequent this newsgroup. Posts from people like that are
    > called 'trolls', and are posted just to stir up the works and see if they
    > can get other people to fly off the handle. Then the posters, also called
    > trolls, just sit back and laugh and watch the fireworks.


    No, I was really serious about this one ;-)

    >
    > It seems to us, and here I'm taking the liberty of speaking for them too,
    > that someone who is completely clueless (as you admit yourself to be) yet
    > manages somehow to scramble through a certification test with a passing
    > score with no useful ability to apply what they claim to know, does nothing
    > but devalue and dilute the meaning of the certification. Suppose that
    > magically you manage to scrape by this test (I'll be astonished if that's
    > what happens). You apply for another job, proudly displaying your
    > certification. Pretty quick, say in less than a week, they discover that you
    > can't apply the knowledge that your certification claims you have, in fact
    > have no programming experience whatsoever, so they fire you, and rightfully
    > so. Now you've poisoned the well. The next guy who comes in their door with
    > a certification hasn't a chance with that company, even if he's got a
    > century of programming experience.
    >
    > See what I mean?


    I see what you mean. But maybe I can explain it a little bit more. I
    graduated at the university in June 2004. Now I'm looking for a decent
    job, and actually I just found for the first time a job I would really
    like to do. It's in IT consulting. The people overthere really want me
    to work there, I really want to work there, but the only problem is that
    I can't put anything on my CV to persuade possible clients to hire the
    firm with me doing the job for them. So that's why they asked me to get
    two certifications. Like I already told, the first is SCJP which I
    passed after studying ten days, and the second one is MCSD 70-315. They
    know I don't have any experience, and they also know what the value of
    these certifications is. I say this because they know all you're trying
    to tell me. But they are also convinced it is possible to pass this
    particular exam after studying about a week. And with only using the
    book I've been talking about.
    I've been talking with somebody who had the same experience as me when
    he started to study for this exam and he said it is possible. You know:
    it's not important that I know how to work with C#.NET, it's important
    that I get the certification. Just to show the possible clients in the
    future that I managed to get it within two weeks. Actually I'm pretty
    convinced that I will be able to pass it just by studying that book.
    I'm smart enough, the test is not thát difficult and I'm studying hard
    for it. It will take me about 8 days to study the book a first time,
    two days for rehearsing it, and that maybe two days for making testexams
    and focussing on some parts of the book.
    And when I have this certification, I will start working for them. When
    the future shows I don't know enough about some particular program, they
    will let me follow courses for it, so that's not the problem.

    But anyway: I will keep you guys informed about it ;-)

    Thanks after all for all your replies!!

    Greets,

    Paul
     
    P, Feb 28, 2005
    #12
  13. P

    Tom Dacon Guest

    Re: have to pass MCSD 70-315!!!!

    Well, good luck to you.

    Tom D.

    "P" <"de_polle[geen_spam_gewenst]"@kotnet.org> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Tom Dacon schreef:
    > > Sorry. I guess you're actually serious. No offense intended. I thought

    you
    > > had made up an elaborate joke to infuriate some of the professional
    > > developers who frequent this newsgroup. Posts from people like that are
    > > called 'trolls', and are posted just to stir up the works and see if

    they
    > > can get other people to fly off the handle. Then the posters, also

    called
    > > trolls, just sit back and laugh and watch the fireworks.

    >
    > No, I was really serious about this one ;-)
    >
    > >
    > > It seems to us, and here I'm taking the liberty of speaking for them

    too,
    > > that someone who is completely clueless (as you admit yourself to be)

    yet
    > > manages somehow to scramble through a certification test with a passing
    > > score with no useful ability to apply what they claim to know, does

    nothing
    > > but devalue and dilute the meaning of the certification. Suppose that
    > > magically you manage to scrape by this test (I'll be astonished if

    that's
    > > what happens). You apply for another job, proudly displaying your
    > > certification. Pretty quick, say in less than a week, they discover that

    you
    > > can't apply the knowledge that your certification claims you have, in

    fact
    > > have no programming experience whatsoever, so they fire you, and

    rightfully
    > > so. Now you've poisoned the well. The next guy who comes in their door

    with
    > > a certification hasn't a chance with that company, even if he's got a
    > > century of programming experience.
    > >
    > > See what I mean?

    >
    > I see what you mean. But maybe I can explain it a little bit more. I
    > graduated at the university in June 2004. Now I'm looking for a decent
    > job, and actually I just found for the first time a job I would really
    > like to do. It's in IT consulting. The people overthere really want me
    > to work there, I really want to work there, but the only problem is that
    > I can't put anything on my CV to persuade possible clients to hire the
    > firm with me doing the job for them. So that's why they asked me to get
    > two certifications. Like I already told, the first is SCJP which I
    > passed after studying ten days, and the second one is MCSD 70-315. They
    > know I don't have any experience, and they also know what the value of
    > these certifications is. I say this because they know all you're trying
    > to tell me. But they are also convinced it is possible to pass this
    > particular exam after studying about a week. And with only using the
    > book I've been talking about.
    > I've been talking with somebody who had the same experience as me when
    > he started to study for this exam and he said it is possible. You know:
    > it's not important that I know how to work with C#.NET, it's important
    > that I get the certification. Just to show the possible clients in the
    > future that I managed to get it within two weeks. Actually I'm pretty
    > convinced that I will be able to pass it just by studying that book.
    > I'm smart enough, the test is not thát difficult and I'm studying hard
    > for it. It will take me about 8 days to study the book a first time,
    > two days for rehearsing it, and that maybe two days for making testexams
    > and focussing on some parts of the book.
    > And when I have this certification, I will start working for them. When
    > the future shows I don't know enough about some particular program, they
    > will let me follow courses for it, so that's not the problem.
    >
    > But anyway: I will keep you guys informed about it ;-)
    >
    > Thanks after all for all your replies!!
    >
    > Greets,
    >
    > Paul
     
    Tom Dacon, Feb 28, 2005
    #13
  14. Re: have to pass MCSD 70-315!!!!

    Tom Dacon wrote:
    > "KMA" <> wrote in message
    > news:cvvim6$d02$-plus.net...
    >>
    >> In a generic sense this is true, but if you're a VS.Net C# house and
    >> you're looking for developers in this environment then give them a
    >> short test to make sure they are familiar with the IDE. Something
    >> along the lines of a Winforms app to convert Celsius to Farenheit.
    >> It doesn't have to be involved. From my own experience, just telling
    >> potential candidates that they face such a test as part of the
    >> interview scares off most of the paper tigers. Of course, it means
    >> you reject candidates who were generically good programmers but who
    >> weren't familiar with a particular IDE, which they probably could
    >> have learnt fairly quickly. I remember one reply that was given to
    >> an interviewee who claimed that it didn't matter that he had no
    >> practical experience in a given language because he "could learn it
    >> in a month". He was told "OK, see you next month for the test". He
    >> never turned up.

    >
    > I was a hiring manager at a VB shop some years back. They had a
    > programming test that they gave to potential new hires, where they
    > actually had to sit down at the IDE and code a working program. The
    > problem was actually pretty simple, but you had to think about it a
    > bit.
    >
    > I was skeptical of the value of this when I started, but it took no
    > time at all for me to be convinced. It was a surprise to me that
    > someone could come in with a good resume, could talk the talk, and
    > then completely self-destruct when they had to sit down at a computer
    > and write a program. I'd give them up to an hour in an unused
    > cubicle, without interruption, and it was kind of pathetic to quietly
    > stroll past the door of the cubicle after a half-hour and see someone
    > sitting in front of the same three lines of code that I had seen
    > fifteen minutes before. A couple of times the candidates actually
    > slipped out of the office and left without speaking to me. Sometimes
    > a candidate would seem to be insulted that he'd be asked to
    > demonstrate his abilities, and would refuse to take the test; out the
    > door he went.
    >
    > Of course, some people passed the test, and a few of them completely
    > demolished it - recursive solutions, well-documented, stuff like
    > that. I hired the best of them when I could, and gave the rest of
    > them some counseling on getting real experience to match their
    > resumes.
    >
    > I also agree with your comments about a certificate being
    > insufficient in itself as a qualification. No one would actually hire
    > a programmer based on just a certificate. But I stand by my comments
    > about poisoning the well.
    >
    > Best regards,
    > Tom Dacon


    Man, I would absolutely LOVE an interview test like that.

    Let me know when you're hiring again :)

    --
    Fris "Loves a challenge (and better pay)" bee®, MCNGP #13

    The MCNGP Team - We're here to help!
    http://www.mcngp.com

    Certaholics
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/certaholics
     
    =?Windows-1252?Q?Frisbee=AE?=, Feb 28, 2005
    #14
  15. P

    Tom Dacon Guest

    Re: have to pass MCSD 70-315!!!!

    So, tell me, Frisbee...

    Are you a VB.Net and SQL Server 2000 stallion?

    Tom D.

    "Frisbee®" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Tom Dacon wrote:
    > > "KMA" <> wrote in message
    > > news:cvvim6$d02$-plus.net...
    > >>
    > >> In a generic sense this is true, but if you're a VS.Net C# house and
    > >> you're looking for developers in this environment then give them a
    > >> short test to make sure they are familiar with the IDE. Something
    > >> along the lines of a Winforms app to convert Celsius to Farenheit.
    > >> It doesn't have to be involved. From my own experience, just telling
    > >> potential candidates that they face such a test as part of the
    > >> interview scares off most of the paper tigers. Of course, it means
    > >> you reject candidates who were generically good programmers but who
    > >> weren't familiar with a particular IDE, which they probably could
    > >> have learnt fairly quickly. I remember one reply that was given to
    > >> an interviewee who claimed that it didn't matter that he had no
    > >> practical experience in a given language because he "could learn it
    > >> in a month". He was told "OK, see you next month for the test". He
    > >> never turned up.

    > >
    > > I was a hiring manager at a VB shop some years back. They had a
    > > programming test that they gave to potential new hires, where they
    > > actually had to sit down at the IDE and code a working program. The
    > > problem was actually pretty simple, but you had to think about it a
    > > bit.
    > >
    > > I was skeptical of the value of this when I started, but it took no
    > > time at all for me to be convinced. It was a surprise to me that
    > > someone could come in with a good resume, could talk the talk, and
    > > then completely self-destruct when they had to sit down at a computer
    > > and write a program. I'd give them up to an hour in an unused
    > > cubicle, without interruption, and it was kind of pathetic to quietly
    > > stroll past the door of the cubicle after a half-hour and see someone
    > > sitting in front of the same three lines of code that I had seen
    > > fifteen minutes before. A couple of times the candidates actually
    > > slipped out of the office and left without speaking to me. Sometimes
    > > a candidate would seem to be insulted that he'd be asked to
    > > demonstrate his abilities, and would refuse to take the test; out the
    > > door he went.
    > >
    > > Of course, some people passed the test, and a few of them completely
    > > demolished it - recursive solutions, well-documented, stuff like
    > > that. I hired the best of them when I could, and gave the rest of
    > > them some counseling on getting real experience to match their
    > > resumes.
    > >
    > > I also agree with your comments about a certificate being
    > > insufficient in itself as a qualification. No one would actually hire
    > > a programmer based on just a certificate. But I stand by my comments
    > > about poisoning the well.
    > >
    > > Best regards,
    > > Tom Dacon

    >
    > Man, I would absolutely LOVE an interview test like that.
    >
    > Let me know when you're hiring again :)
    >
    > --
    > Fris "Loves a challenge (and better pay)" bee®, MCNGP #13
    >
    > The MCNGP Team - We're here to help!
    > http://www.mcngp.com
    >
    > Certaholics
    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/certaholics
    >
     
    Tom Dacon, Feb 28, 2005
    #15
  16. Re: have to pass MCSD 70-315!!!!

    Tom Dacon wrote:
    > So, tell me, Frisbee...
    >
    > Are you a VB.Net and SQL Server 2000 stallion?


    Oh well... I stil like a challenge, heh.

    I'm a VB 6.0 and Pervasive stallion.

    --
    Fris "With .Net, I might be staring at the screen, too" bee®, MCNGP #13

    The MCNGP Team - We're here to help!
    http://www.mcngp.com

    Certaholics
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/certaholics
     
    =?Windows-1252?Q?Frisbee=AE?=, Mar 1, 2005
    #16
  17. P

    Tom Dacon Guest

    Re: have to pass MCSD 70-315!!!!

    Ah well...

    TD

    "Frisbee®" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Tom Dacon wrote:
    > > So, tell me, Frisbee...
    > >
    > > Are you a VB.Net and SQL Server 2000 stallion?

    >
    > Oh well... I stil like a challenge, heh.
    >
    > I'm a VB 6.0 and Pervasive stallion.
    >
    > --
    > Fris "With .Net, I might be staring at the screen, too" bee®, MCNGP #13
    >
    > The MCNGP Team - We're here to help!
    > http://www.mcngp.com
    >
    > Certaholics
    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/certaholics
    >
     
    Tom Dacon, Mar 1, 2005
    #17
  18. P

    Saga Guest

    Re: have to pass MCSD 70-315!!!!

    I just read this thread and don't know if you are still monitoring it.

    Like Tom said, "Good luck to you". I hope that you are able to
    reach your objectives as you have planned.

    I certainly don't want to offend you or the company where you
    want to work, but I thought that I should share with you what I
    think, even if it is just so that you'll have yet another opinion<g>.

    What worries me is the stratey of the consulting firm that you
    mention. I have worked at such firms, both developing and hiring.

    I see it rather odd (to say the least) that the firm would get clients
    by having their employees show off their CVs to them. When a
    client hires a consulting firm, they must have the assurance that
    the firm will deliver a high quality solution in a timely manner.


    When new peope are hired, they start off assisting, which can
    mean anything from drawing flowcharts, authoring documentation
    or programming black boxes. As the firm realizes that the hiree
    is apt, then s/he is given more responsibility, the zenith (within
    development) being the project leader. The time that it takes
    for this to happen depends on the hiree's competence, some
    "rookies" might take two or three years, others that have a
    beaten path might take a few months. This helps the firm guarantee
    quality and timeliness. But never have I seen a firm have their
    their employees show their CVs. Also, a client looks for
    certification. MS provides two levels of certification for a firm,
    Certified Partner and Gold Certified Partner. As other have said,
    this does not guarantee absolute knowledge, but it does give the
    client some assurance that the firm that he it hiring does have people
    that have some knowledge of the technology.

    Your value as a developer will increase with time and experience,
    it is just that I can't see anyone putting their new hirees on the front
    line in such a way. Just keep your eyes open... and be careful out
    there.

    Saga

    <snipped>
    > I see what you mean. But maybe I can explain it a little bit more. I
    > graduated at the university in June 2004. Now I'm looking for a
    > decent job, and actually I just found for the first time a job I would
    > really like to do. It's in IT consulting. The people overthere
    > really want me to work there, I really want to work there, but the
    > only problem is that I can't put anything on my CV to persuade
    > possible clients to hire the firm with me doing the job for them. So
    > that's why they asked me to get two certifications. Like I already
    > told, the first is SCJP which I passed after studying ten days, and
    > the second one is MCSD 70-315. They know I don't have any experience,
    > and they also know what the value of these certifications is. I say
    > this because they know all you're trying to tell me. But they are
    > also convinced it is possible to pass this particular exam after
    > studying about a week. And with only using the book I've been talking
    > about.
    > I've been talking with somebody who had the same experience as me when
    > he started to study for this exam and he said it is possible. You
    > know: it's not important that I know how to work with C#.NET, it's
    > important that I get the certification. Just to show the possible
    > clients in the future that I managed to get it within two weeks.
    > Actually I'm pretty convinced that I will be able to pass it just by
    > studying that book. I'm smart enough, the test is not thát difficult
    > and I'm studying hard for it. It will take me about 8 days to study
    > the book a first time, two days for rehearsing it, and that maybe two
    > days for making testexams and focussing on some parts of the book.
    > And when I have this certification, I will start working for them.
    > When the future shows I don't know enough about some particular
    > program, they will let me follow courses for it, so that's not the
    > problem.
    >
    > But anyway: I will keep you guys informed about it ;-)
    >
    > Thanks after all for all your replies!!
    >
    > Greets,
    >
    > Paul
     
    Saga, Mar 2, 2005
    #18
  19. P

    Guest

    Its a good book, but I hope you are doing some hands-on as
    well.

    Very important additional information, you will find
    useful:

    Microsoft ® Skills Assessments are very important to
    Certified Professionals

    Organizations now require certified professionals take
    these assessments to verify their currency with today's
    technology. Microsoft Skills Assessment Support
    Information (SASI) is especially useful for certified
    professionals who require basic support that mitigates
    urgent assessment needs quickly. Whether YOU are a
    Microsoft ® Certified Professional or just getting
    started, these SASI assessments are for you.

    Microsoft ® Skills Assessment Address:
    http://www.microsoft.com/learning/assessment/default.asp
    Microsoft ® Evaluation Address:
    http://disnetinc.com/Microsoft_Evaluation.htm

    Microsoft Administrator
    Email:


    >-----Original Message-----
    >Two weeks ago I had no experience in programming at

    all. To get a
    >particular jobcontract, I had to get two certifications

    in one month.
    >The first was the SCJP (Sun Certified Java2 Programmer)

    and the other is
    >MCSD 70-315. I studied about ten days for SCJP and

    passed it with a
    >score of 78%. But now I only have two weeks left for

    passing the MCSD
    >exam. At "my work", they gave me this book for studying:
    >
    >MCAD/MCSD Self-Paced Training Kit: Developing Web

    Applications with
    >Microsoft® Visual Basic® .NET and Microsoft Visual

    C#® .NET, Second Edition
    >
    >http://www.microsoft.com/MSPress/books/6714.asp
    >
    >They told me that should be enough to study for the

    exam. But after
    >about two days of studying, I started to panic a little

    bit. They keep
    >using code they don't explain. I understand the general

    story of the
    >book, but the details of the code is really Chinese for

    me. I mean: I
    >understand it, but I can never reproduce it myself. And

    if they will
    >ask questions like they did on the SCJP exam where it's

    important to see
    >why a certain code wouldn't compile or to see what the

    result would be,
    >I don't think I will be able to do that, just by studying

    this book.
    >
    >So, my question is actually: knowing my background in

    programming and
    >stuff like that, do you people think the book I'm talking

    about is good
    >enough to prepare me for the 70-315 exam? Or would you

    recommend me an
    >other book? And is it important or not that I learn how

    to write the
    >code myself for the exam? Or that I really understand

    the code?
    >
    >And one other thing: I'm using that book, but I don't

    have a copy of the
    >Visual Studio.NET program. They assured me it's not

    necessary to have
    >that program for passing the exam, is that true?
    >
    >
    >Thank you very much for helping me out!!
    >
    >Kind regards,
    >
    >Paul
    >.
    >
     
    , Mar 4, 2005
    #19
  20. P

    Don Carter Guest

    On Fri, 4 Mar 2005 12:45:08 -0800, ""
    <> wrote:


    multiply repeated posting snipped

    Have you finished posting the same advert for your website in reply to
    every post inthis group, or should we all just killfile you?
     
    Don Carter, Mar 5, 2005
    #20
    1. Advertising

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