Hello. . .

Discussion in 'Windows 64bit' started by Tony, May 9, 2011.

  1. Tony

    Tony Guest

    Oh-, so this is where you're hiding away? Had guidance from Carlos on
    this matter.

    Greetings to all the old 'farts'! I shall be keeping this group under
    close scrutiny from hence forward. In truth, though, having read some
    of this I wonder if I don't feel a bit rusty. How time flies. . .he,
    he.


    Tony. . .
    Tony, May 9, 2011
    #1
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  2. Tony

    Carlos Guest

    Tony,
    Yes, here we are, still.
    The fat lady has not sung yet.
    :)
    Carlos

    On May 9, 1:23 pm, Tony <> wrote:
    > Oh-, so this is where you're hiding away? Had guidance from Carlos on
    > this matter.
    >
    > Greetings to all the old 'farts'! I shall be keeping this group under
    > close scrutiny from hence forward. In truth, though, having read some
    > of this I wonder if I don't feel a bit rusty. How time flies. . .he,
    > he.
    >
    > Tony. . .
    Carlos, May 9, 2011
    #2
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  3. Tony

    Kue2 Guest

    Welcome back Tony......

    "Tony" wrote in message
    news:...

    Oh-, so this is where you're hiding away? Had guidance from Carlos on
    this matter.

    Greetings to all the old 'farts'! I shall be keeping this group under
    close scrutiny from hence forward. In truth, though, having read some
    of this I wonder if I don't feel a bit rusty. How time flies. . .he,
    he.


    Tony. . .
    Kue2, May 10, 2011
    #3
  4. Hey, Tony. Welcome back. Yes, this is where we have been hiding. Not a whole
    lot going on, really, but a few old farts here to keep the home fires
    burning.

    --
    Charlie.
    http://blogs.msmvps.com/Russel


    "Tony" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Oh-, so this is where you're hiding away? Had guidance from Carlos on
    > this matter.
    >
    > Greetings to all the old 'farts'! I shall be keeping this group under
    > close scrutiny from hence forward. In truth, though, having read some
    > of this I wonder if I don't feel a bit rusty. How time flies. . .he,
    > he.
    >
    >
    > Tony. . .
    Charlie Russel-MVP, May 10, 2011
    #4
  5. Tony

    Drew Guest

    On 5/10/2011 10:23 AM, Charlie Russel-MVP wrote:
    > Hey, Tony. Welcome back. Yes, this is where we have been hiding. Not a
    > whole lot going on, really, but a few old farts here to keep the home
    > fires burning.
    >

    Well some of us are old.. Crap! that is me!
    Drew, May 10, 2011
    #5
  6. Tony

    Tony Guest

    On May 11, 12:56 am, Drew <> wrote:
    > On 5/10/2011 10:23 AM, Charlie Russel-MVP wrote:> Hey, Tony. Welcome back.. Yes, this is where we have been hiding. Not a
    > > whole lot going on, really, but a few old farts here to keep the home
    > > fires burning.

    >
    > Well some of us are old.. Crap! that is me!


    On May 11, 12:56 am, Drew <> wrote:
    > On 5/10/2011 10:23 AM, Charlie Russel-MVP wrote:> Hey, Tony. Welcome back.. Yes, this is where we have been hiding. Not a
    > > whole lot going on, really, but a few old farts here to keep the home
    > > fires burning.

    >
    > Well some of us are old.. Crap! that is me!


    Thanks everyone. All this time without i-net makes you realize that
    internet is becoming an integral body part - and being exiled is like
    an amputation. I managed to get a message through, to what looked like
    the old group (off the msnews server, though.) R.C. replied, but I
    never got through again after seeing that.

    Made me wonder how this move to google came about, probably self
    evident, but if there are interesting bits of history I'd be glad to
    hear of it.

    My old 'new' computer (M2N32 with a x2 Athlon 64 FX ) died again (an
    18 month issue, sigh!) and I had to buy something new that I really
    couldn't afford, this is probably well below entry level (M4A88TD with
    a x2 Athlon II and 4Gig RAM) it has integrated graphics HD 4250, I
    have no experience from ATI GPU's, and I did not expect other than
    violent disapointment, but this is worse, how bad is it really? The
    funny thing is that after inserting the old nVidia 7900GTX that used
    to be a wonderful performer, that too came out as mediocre in this
    environment. Any thoughts?

    And Drew: I still think age is irrelevant, unless you are applying for
    a job under a financial crisis - my G, was my timing out of sync! It
    is well known that you are only old when resting out takes longer than
    it did to get tired in the first place. I, personally seem to have a
    backlog in that department. This whole situation actually makes me
    recall one of the Zappa records where he is saying: 50 years from now
    we're all a bunch of old guys sitting sharing involved jokes that
    nobody else understands. That is - if there is still anything left to
    sit on. (How true. . .)

    It feels good to be back, I've already spotted R.C. and Dominic - no
    sight of Barnes & Hendricks?


    Tony. . .

    P.S. - I shipped this off to Drev at first, I think - or was it
    Charlie? Oh, well I'll have to get to grips with this new home.
    Tony, May 11, 2011
    #6
  7. What happened to put us here on google for you, but eternal-september for
    most of us, is that Microsoft closed ALL their newsgroups and took down
    their NNTP server completely. Everyone is supposed to move to "forums". Only
    no one did. The fora are completely without community, and there was no
    place for this community to go at all. When MS closed their NNTP, most ISPs
    dropped their NNTP feed for microsoft newsgroups, since the originator was
    news.microsoft.com. (and a fair number of ISPs dropped NNTP entirely.) But
    the group continues to exist on those news servers that are out there, and
    most of us have found the news servers at eternal-september to be a good
    choice. Free, but you need to register an account. Spam hasn't been too bad,
    except for one bozo who thinks his "tips" will somehow build his site. We
    ignore him.

    Sadly, with it being so difficult to find us, there isn't much traffic
    except the old regulars. So we're very glad to have you back.

    --
    Charlie.
    http://blogs.msmvps.com/Russel


    "Tony" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    On May 11, 12:56 am, Drew <> wrote:
    > On 5/10/2011 10:23 AM, Charlie Russel-MVP wrote:> Hey, Tony. Welcome back.
    > Yes, this is where we have been hiding. Not a
    > > whole lot going on, really, but a few old farts here to keep the home
    > > fires burning.

    >
    > Well some of us are old.. Crap! that is me!


    On May 11, 12:56 am, Drew <> wrote:
    > On 5/10/2011 10:23 AM, Charlie Russel-MVP wrote:> Hey, Tony. Welcome back.
    > Yes, this is where we have been hiding. Not a
    > > whole lot going on, really, but a few old farts here to keep the home
    > > fires burning.

    >
    > Well some of us are old.. Crap! that is me!


    Thanks everyone. All this time without i-net makes you realize that
    internet is becoming an integral body part - and being exiled is like
    an amputation. I managed to get a message through, to what looked like
    the old group (off the msnews server, though.) R.C. replied, but I
    never got through again after seeing that.

    Made me wonder how this move to google came about, probably self
    evident, but if there are interesting bits of history I'd be glad to
    hear of it.

    My old 'new' computer (M2N32 with a x2 Athlon 64 FX ) died again (an
    18 month issue, sigh!) and I had to buy something new that I really
    couldn't afford, this is probably well below entry level (M4A88TD with
    a x2 Athlon II and 4Gig RAM) it has integrated graphics HD 4250, I
    have no experience from ATI GPU's, and I did not expect other than
    violent disapointment, but this is worse, how bad is it really? The
    funny thing is that after inserting the old nVidia 7900GTX that used
    to be a wonderful performer, that too came out as mediocre in this
    environment. Any thoughts?

    And Drew: I still think age is irrelevant, unless you are applying for
    a job under a financial crisis - my G, was my timing out of sync! It
    is well known that you are only old when resting out takes longer than
    it did to get tired in the first place. I, personally seem to have a
    backlog in that department. This whole situation actually makes me
    recall one of the Zappa records where he is saying: 50 years from now
    we're all a bunch of old guys sitting sharing involved jokes that
    nobody else understands. That is - if there is still anything left to
    sit on. (How true. . .)

    It feels good to be back, I've already spotted R.C. and Dominic - no
    sight of Barnes & Hendricks?


    Tony. . .

    P.S. - I shipped this off to Drev at first, I think - or was it
    Charlie? Oh, well I'll have to get to grips with this new home.
    Charlie Russel-MVP, May 11, 2011
    #7
  8. Go to http://sites.amd.com/us/game/downloads/Pages/downloads.aspx and
    explore the Optional Downloads under the Motherboard/Integrated Video
    Driver section for your OS. These are later chipset driver versions than
    Asus provides for your board.

    For the 7900GTX see http://www.nvidia.co.uk/Download/index.aspx?lang=en-uk.


    On 11/05/2011 13:42, Tony wrote:
    >
    > My old 'new' computer (M2N32 with a x2 Athlon 64 FX ) died again (an
    > 18 month issue, sigh!) and I had to buy something new that I really
    > couldn't afford, this is probably well below entry level (M4A88TD with
    > a x2 Athlon II and 4Gig RAM) it has integrated graphics HD 4250, I
    > have no experience from ATI GPU's, and I did not expect other than
    > violent disapointment, but this is worse, how bad is it really? The
    > funny thing is that after inserting the old nVidia 7900GTX that used
    > to be a wonderful performer, that too came out as mediocre in this
    > environment. Any thoughts?
    Dominic Payer, May 11, 2011
    #8
  9. Tony

    Carlos Guest

    Tony,
    I am using Motherboard ASUS M4A88TD-M with good performance.
    Is yours "-M" at the end of the name?
    I have installed DDR3 memory and a mid priced ATI 5770 graphic card.
    Processor is AM3 type (6-core 1055T).
    Carlos

    On May 11, 9:42 am, Tony <> wrote:
    > On May 11, 12:56 am, Drew <> wrote:
    >
    > > On 5/10/2011 10:23 AM, Charlie Russel-MVP wrote:> Hey, Tony. Welcome back. Yes, this is where we have been hiding. Not a
    > > > whole lot going on, really, but a few old farts here to keep the home
    > > > fires burning.

    >
    > > Well some of us are old.. Crap! that is me!

    >
    > On May 11, 12:56 am, Drew <> wrote:
    >
    > > On 5/10/2011 10:23 AM, Charlie Russel-MVP wrote:> Hey, Tony. Welcome back. Yes, this is where we have been hiding. Not a
    > > > whole lot going on, really, but a few old farts here to keep the home
    > > > fires burning.

    >
    > > Well some of us are old.. Crap! that is me!

    >
    > Thanks everyone. All this time without i-net makes you realize that
    > internet is becoming an integral body part - and being exiled is like
    > an amputation. I managed to get a message through, to what looked like
    > the old group (off the msnews server, though.) R.C. replied, but I
    > never got through again after seeing that.
    >
    > Made me wonder how this move to google came about, probably self
    > evident, but if there are interesting bits of history I'd be glad to
    > hear of it.
    >
    > My old 'new' computer (M2N32 with a x2 Athlon 64 FX ) died again (an
    > 18 month issue, sigh!) and I had to buy something new that I really
    > couldn't afford, this is probably well below entry level (M4A88TD with
    > a x2 Athlon II and 4Gig RAM) it has integrated graphics HD 4250, I
    > have no experience from ATI GPU's, and I did not expect other than
    > violent disapointment, but this is worse, how bad is it really? The
    > funny thing is that after inserting the old nVidia 7900GTX that used
    > to be a wonderful performer, that too came out as mediocre in this
    > environment. Any thoughts?
    >
    > And Drew: I still think age is irrelevant, unless you are applying for
    > a job under a financial crisis - my G, was my timing out of sync! It
    > is well known that you are only old when resting out takes longer than
    > it did to get tired in the first place. I, personally seem to have a
    > backlog in that department. This whole situation actually makes me
    > recall one of the Zappa records where he is saying: 50 years from now
    > we're all a bunch of old guys sitting sharing involved jokes that
    > nobody else understands. That is - if there is still anything left to
    > sit on. (How true. . .)
    >
    > It feels good to be back, I've already spotted R.C. and Dominic - no
    > sight of Barnes & Hendricks?
    >
    > Tony. . .
    >
    > P.S. - I shipped this off to Drev at first, I think - or was it
    > Charlie? Oh, well I'll have to get to grips with this new home.
    Carlos, May 11, 2011
    #9
  10. Tony

    Tony Guest

    On May 11, 3:13 pm, "Charlie Russel-MVP"
    <> wrote:
    > What happened to put us here on google for you, but eternal-september for
    > most of us, is that Microsoft closed ALL their newsgroups and took down
    > their NNTP server completely. Everyone is supposed to move to "forums". Only
    > no one did. The fora are completely without community, and there was no
    > place for this community to go at all. When MS closed their NNTP, most ISPs
    > dropped their NNTP feed for microsoft newsgroups, since the originator was
    > news.microsoft.com. (and a fair number of ISPs dropped NNTP entirely.) But
    > the group continues to exist on those news servers that are out there, and
    > most of us have found the news servers at eternal-september to be a good
    > choice. Free, but you need to register an account. Spam hasn't been too bad,
    > except for one bozo who thinks his "tips" will somehow build his site. We
    > ignore him.
    >
    > Sadly, with it being so difficult to find us, there isn't much traffic
    > except the old regulars. So we're very glad to have you back.
    >
    > --
    > Charlie.http://blogs.msmvps.com/Russel
    >


    I believe what you're saying explains a lot of those frowns I've had
    over this, Charlie. I knew a bit about yours, and Carlo's habits,
    though, so what I think really threw me was that when I tried looking
    up your blog from the MS Forums pages, I was told it had been closed
    down. I thought "WTF?". And then realized the true difficulties,
    because at this point you are really not thinking very straight any
    more. More like a wasp trapped on the inside of your window.

    Tony. . .
    Tony, May 11, 2011
    #10
  11. Tony

    Tony Guest

    On May 11, 4:02 pm, Carlos <> wrote:
    > Tony,
    > I am using Motherboard ASUS M4A88TD-M with good performance.
    > Is yours "-M" at the end of the name?
    > I have installed DDR3 memory and a mid priced ATI 5770 graphic card.
    > Processor is AM3 type (6-core 1055T).
    > Carlos
    >
    > On May 11, 9:42 am, Tony <> wrote:
    >


    No, Carlos. It is *TD-V Evo - 4GB DDR3 RAM ( I think )

    2 core am3 socket ( Cannot remember the type number ) ( wait - it's
    one of the old opterons! )
    I was running on the internal graphics, HD 4250 now, the good card GF
    7900 GSX.

    2HDD's SATA3 - this could be a bottleneck but I don't really think
    they can be this bad. I am running on the original MB Drivers from the
    System CD so perhaps I need an update, but that avenue was closed
    until now.

    The next project here is that I will try and get as much as possible
    here to be connected so it can be updated, and as Gentoo has finally
    released a live DVD, I shall get that one up and running too. The
    Win2K machine is still alive and well (it refuses to die) but the
    connection is a USB Wi-Fi and I have not been able to get data through
    from the laptop, nor installed onto the Win2K machine itself. I
    managed to ping all from everywhere and they even appeared as nodes on
    the local Network on both Win2K and the laptop. But nothing was
    passing through. I know Charlie helped me with that one time, but that
    was perhaps a little more kosher as I had a cable going to the router,
    back then. Now it is all wireless all of the way, and something with
    Win2K and/or the router Ovis WL-1000R probably isn't completely
    compatible in this day-and-age.


    Tony. . .
    Tony, May 11, 2011
    #11
  12. Tony

    Carlos Guest

    Tony,
    My laptop has a 4250 onboard video and quite complaint about it.
    I am not a gamer but it has enough muscle to play 1280x720 videos
    without a hitch.
    What part of the performance are you unhappy with?
    Carlos

    On May 11, 12:48 pm, Tony <> wrote:
    > On May 11, 4:02 pm, Carlos <> wrote:
    >
    > > Tony,
    > > I am using Motherboard ASUS M4A88TD-M with good performance.
    > > Is yours "-M" at the end of the name?
    > > I have installed DDR3 memory and a mid priced ATI 5770 graphic card.
    > > Processor is AM3 type (6-core 1055T).
    > > Carlos

    >
    > > On May 11, 9:42 am, Tony <> wrote:

    >
    > No, Carlos. It is *TD-V Evo - 4GB DDR3 RAM ( I think )
    >
    > 2 core am3 socket ( Cannot remember the type number ) ( wait - it's
    > one of the old opterons! )
    > I was running on the internal graphics, HD 4250 now, the good card GF
    > 7900 GSX.
    >
    > 2HDD's SATA3 - this could be a bottleneck but I don't really think
    > they can be this bad. I am running on the original MB Drivers from the
    > System CD so perhaps I need an update, but that avenue was closed
    > until now.
    >
    > The next project here is that I will try and get as much as possible
    > here to be connected so it can be updated, and as Gentoo has finally
    > released a live DVD, I shall get that one up and running too. The
    > Win2K machine is still alive and well (it refuses to die) but the
    > connection is a USB Wi-Fi and I have not been able to get data through
    > from the laptop, nor installed onto the Win2K machine itself. I
    > managed to ping all from everywhere and they even appeared as nodes on
    > the local Network on both Win2K and the laptop. But nothing was
    > passing through. I know Charlie helped me with that one time, but that
    > was perhaps a little more kosher as I had a cable going to the router,
    > back then. Now it is all wireless all of the way, and something with
    > Win2K and/or the router Ovis WL-1000R probably isn't completely
    > compatible in this day-and-age.
    >
    > Tony. . .
    Carlos, May 11, 2011
    #12
  13. Tony

    Carlos Guest

    Tony,
    My laptop has a 4250 onboard video and I cannot complaint about it.
    I am not a gamer but it has enough muscle to play 1280x720 videos
    without a hitch.
    What part of the performance are you unhappy with?
    Carlos

    On May 11, 12:48 pm, Tony <> wrote:
    > On May 11, 4:02 pm, Carlos <> wrote:
    >
    > > Tony,
    > > I am using Motherboard ASUS M4A88TD-M with good performance.
    > > Is yours "-M" at the end of the name?
    > > I have installed DDR3 memory and a mid priced ATI 5770 graphic card.
    > > Processor is AM3 type (6-core 1055T).
    > > Carlos

    >
    > > On May 11, 9:42 am, Tony <> wrote:

    >
    > No, Carlos. It is *TD-V Evo - 4GB DDR3 RAM ( I think )
    >
    > 2 core am3 socket ( Cannot remember the type number ) ( wait - it's
    > one of the old opterons! )
    > I was running on the internal graphics, HD 4250 now, the good card GF
    > 7900 GSX.
    >
    > 2HDD's SATA3 - this could be a bottleneck but I don't really think
    > they can be this bad. I am running on the original MB Drivers from the
    > System CD so perhaps I need an update, but that avenue was closed
    > until now.
    >
    > The next project here is that I will try and get as much as possible
    > here to be connected so it can be updated, and as Gentoo has finally
    > released a live DVD, I shall get that one up and running too. The
    > Win2K machine is still alive and well (it refuses to die) but the
    > connection is a USB Wi-Fi and I have not been able to get data through
    > from the laptop, nor installed onto the Win2K machine itself. I
    > managed to ping all from everywhere and they even appeared as nodes on
    > the local Network on both Win2K and the laptop. But nothing was
    > passing through. I know Charlie helped me with that one time, but that
    > was perhaps a little more kosher as I had a cable going to the router,
    > back then. Now it is all wireless all of the way, and something with
    > Win2K and/or the router Ovis WL-1000R probably isn't completely
    > compatible in this day-and-age.
    >
    > Tony. . .
    Carlos, May 11, 2011
    #13
  14. Tony

    John Turco Guest

    Tony wrote:
    >
    > Oh-, so this is where you're hiding away? Had guidance from Carlos on
    > this matter.
    >
    > Greetings to all the old 'farts'! I shall be keeping this group under
    > close scrutiny from hence forward. In truth, though, having read some
    > of this I wonder if I don't feel a bit rusty. How time flies. . .he,
    > he.
    >
    > Tony. . .



    I've been here (mostly lurking, sometimes posting), since the summer
    of 2008.

    --
    Cordially,
    John Turco <>

    Marie's Musings <http://fairiesandtails.blogspot.com>
    John Turco, May 12, 2011
    #14
  15. Tony

    Drew Guest

    On 5/11/2011 7:10 PM, John Turco wrote:
    > Tony wrote:
    >>
    >> Oh-, so this is where you're hiding away? Had guidance from Carlos on
    >> this matter.
    >>
    >> Greetings to all the old 'farts'! I shall be keeping this group under
    >> close scrutiny from hence forward. In truth, though, having read some
    >> of this I wonder if I don't feel a bit rusty. How time flies. . .he,
    >> he.
    >>
    >> Tony. . .

    >
    >
    > I've been here (mostly lurking, sometimes posting), since the summer
    > of 2008.
    >

    Lurking beats skulking any day..
    Drew, May 12, 2011
    #15
  16. Tony

    Carlos Guest

    On May 12, 12:38 am, Drew <> wrote:
    > On 5/11/2011 7:10 PM, John Turco wrote:
    >

    Drew,
    Thanks to you I have learnt a new word in English today: "skulk".
    Is it the same as "hide"?
    Carlos

    >
    >
    > > Tony wrote:

    >
    > >> Oh-, so this is where you're hiding away? Had guidance from Carlos on
    > >> this matter.

    >
    > >> Greetings to all the old 'farts'! I shall be keeping this group under
    > >> close scrutiny from hence forward. In truth, though, having read some
    > >> of this I wonder if I don't feel a bit rusty. How time flies. . .he,
    > >> he.

    >
    > >> Tony. . .

    >
    > > I've been here (mostly lurking, sometimes posting), since the summer
    > > of 2008.

    >
    > Lurking beats skulking any day..- Hide quoted text -
    >
    > - Show quoted text -
    Carlos, May 12, 2011
    #16
  17. Tony

    Jeff Gaines Guest

    On 12/05/2011 in message
    <> Carlos
    wrote:

    >Drew,
    >Thanks to you I have learnt a new word in English today: "skulk".
    >Is it the same as "hide"?
    >Carlos


    Skulk is a bit more active, e.g. a burglar might skulk in the bushes while
    deciding the best way to break into a building :)

    --
    Those are my principles – and if you don’t like them, well, I have others.
    (Groucho Marx)
    Jeff Gaines, May 12, 2011
    #17
  18. Tony

    Tony Guest

    On May 12, 3:07 pm, "Jeff Gaines" <> wrote:
    > On 12/05/2011 in message
    > <> Carlos
    > wrote:
    >
    > >Drew,
    > >Thanks to you I have learnt a new word in English today: "skulk".
    > >Is it the same as "hide"?
    > >Carlos

    >
    > Skulk is a bit more active, e.g. a burglar might skulk in the bushes while
    > deciding the best way to break into a building :)
    >
    > --
    > Those are my principles – and if you don’t like them, well, I have others.
    > (Groucho Marx)


    It's amazing how many rudiments are left over from Scandinavian
    tongues. If a student skips class for a whole day (or days) the word
    in Danish is 'skulke' and in Swedish 'skolka', When I saw the usage
    here, I instantly recognized it, although not being really familiar
    with it. Nice to see it confirmed.

    Of course - modern Scandinavian derives from Early Icelandic and I
    have no idea what those examples would have developed into today.

    I love quotes - the Marxist ones are always among the fav's. Einstein:
    "The difference between Geniality and Stupidity is that Geniality has
    limits!"

    Tony. . .
    Tony, May 12, 2011
    #18
  19. Tony

    Jeff Gaines Guest

    On 12/05/2011 in message
    <> Tony
    wrote:

    >It's amazing how many rudiments are left over from Scandinavian
    >tongues. If a student skips class for a whole day (or days) the word
    >in Danish is 'skulke' and in Swedish 'skolka', When I saw the usage
    >here, I instantly recognized it, although not being really familiar
    >with it. Nice to see it confirmed.


    Perhaps it's not so surprising when you consider the Vikings used to raid
    us with monotonous regularity :)

    --
    Those are my principles – and if you don’t like them, well, I have others.
    (Groucho Marx)
    Jeff Gaines, May 12, 2011
    #19
  20. Tony

    Tony Guest

    On May 12, 5:54 pm, "Jeff Gaines" <> wrote:
    > On 12/05/2011 in message
    > <> Tony
    > wrote:
    >
    > Perhaps it's not so surprising when you consider the Vikings used to raid
    > us with monotonous regularity :)
    >
    > --
    > Those are my principles – and if you don’t like them, well, I have others.
    > (Groucho Marx)


    -------------------------------------

    Monotonous. . .indeed! That IS a good one - I cannot stop larfing.

    All the same, I do find it interesting how, as the Romans did much the
    same thing to you poor bastards, they where the ones who left their
    imprint in the landscape. Like Hadrian's wall and the foundation of
    London and such. Whereas the Vikings left their imprint indelibly
    buried in the minds of countless generations. They were also the
    first - if not the only - to invent a flat keeled boat that was
    seaworthy, so obviously they had to go somewhere to fend off boredom,
    which then may turn out to be the reason for. . .ah - everything?

    Thanks Jeff, for the inspiration.


    Tony. . .
    Tony, May 12, 2011
    #20
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