Hello Linux Peoples!

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Bruce Sinclair, Jul 16, 2007.

  1. In article <>, Peter Jenkins <> wrote:
    >I have a friend who is wanting to abandon Windows and go down the open
    >source path (probably Kubuntu). Only snag is she often has to open and
    >work with Publisher files. Is there an open source equivalent to
    >Publisher that will allow her to open and even better edit Publisher
    >files under Linux?


    Yes there is (a google will reveal the names :) ), but IME, the OO writer
    can do the vast bulk of what publisher does anyway. Worth a look.
    As to reading publisher files ? ... that is harder (or was up to a few years
    ago when I last tried and OO 1.1 wouldn't).
     
    Bruce Sinclair, Jul 16, 2007
    #1
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  2. I have a friend who is wanting to abandon Windows and go down the open
    source path (probably Kubuntu). Only snag is she often has to open and
    work with Publisher files. Is there an open source equivalent to
    Publisher that will allow her to open and even better edit Publisher
    files under Linux?

    Thanks and Regards
    Peter Jenkins
    see http://www.sensiblesentencing.org.nz
     
    Peter Jenkins, Jul 16, 2007
    #2
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  3. Bruce Sinclair

    Miguel Guest

    On Sun, 15 Jul 2007 17:31:56 -0700, Peter Jenkins wrote:

    > I have a friend who is wanting to abandon Windows and go down the open
    > source path (probably Kubuntu). Only snag is she often has to open and
    > work with Publisher files. Is there an open source equivalent to
    > Publisher that will allow her to open and even better edit Publisher
    > files under Linux?
    >
    > Thanks and Regards
    > Peter Jenkins
    > see http://www.sensiblesentencing.org.nz


    Two programmes mentioned on the Alternates List are Scribus and KWord.

    Scroll down to Section 9 "Small desktop publishing systems"

    http://www.linuxrsp.ru/win-lin-soft/table-eng.html

    I have no idea if they're viable alternatives as I've never used them,
    nor have I ever used MS Publisher. So basically my recommendation is
    based on hearsay and I don't know what I'm talking about :)

    I have however used Kubuntu and my recommendation is stick with Edgy and
    wait for Gutsy. Feisty + KDE is a bit too wobbly for my liking.

    Or (obviously) use Ubuntu Feisty. That's pretty effortless for an MS user
    to migrate to.

    Regards
    Miguel
     
    Miguel, Jul 16, 2007
    #3
  4. Bruce Sinclair

    sam Guest

    Peter Jenkins wrote:
    > I have a friend who is wanting to abandon Windows and go down the open
    > source path (probably Kubuntu). Only snag is she often has to open and
    > work with Publisher files. Is there an open source equivalent to
    > Publisher that will allow her to open and even better edit Publisher
    > files under Linux?
    >
    > Thanks and Regards
    > Peter Jenkins
    > see http://www.sensiblesentencing.org.nz
    >


    No, Microsoft like to keep their users locked in.
     
    sam, Jul 16, 2007
    #4
  5. Bruce Sinclair

    peterwn Guest

    sam wrote:
    > Peter Jenkins wrote:
    >> I have a friend who is wanting to abandon Windows and go down the open
    >> source path (probably Kubuntu). Only snag is she often has to open and
    >> work with Publisher files. Is there an open source equivalent to
    >> Publisher that will allow her to open and even better edit Publisher
    >> files under Linux?
    >>
    >> Thanks and Regards
    >> Peter Jenkins
    >> see http://www.sensiblesentencing.org.nz
    >>

    >
    > No, Microsoft like to keep their users locked in.


    Moreover earlier versions of Publisher fail with files produced or
    updated by some later versions. Moreover again, the file is 100% valid
    only with the nominated printer. If you wish to use a different
    printer, it may be necessary to adjust something (eg remedy an
    overflowing text box). I understand that printing houses, etc have trouble.
     
    peterwn, Jul 16, 2007
    #5
  6. Bruce Sinclair

    Fred Dagg Guest

    On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 14:08:02 +1200, peterwn <>
    exclaimed:

    >sam wrote:
    >> Peter Jenkins wrote:
    >>> I have a friend who is wanting to abandon Windows and go down the open
    >>> source path (probably Kubuntu). Only snag is she often has to open and
    >>> work with Publisher files. Is there an open source equivalent to
    >>> Publisher that will allow her to open and even better edit Publisher
    >>> files under Linux?
    >>>
    >>> Thanks and Regards
    >>> Peter Jenkins
    >>> see http://www.sensiblesentencing.org.nz
    >>>

    >>
    >> No, Microsoft like to keep their users locked in.

    >
    >Moreover earlier versions of Publisher fail with files produced or
    >updated by some later versions. Moreover again, the file is 100% valid
    >only with the nominated printer. If you wish to use a different
    >printer, it may be necessary to adjust something (eg remedy an
    >overflowing text box). I understand that printing houses, etc have trouble.


    As per usual, this isn't particularly helpful. They are obviously
    using Publisher and asked if there was an alternative that could read
    and write Publisher files. If there's not, why not say so instead of
    instead trying to make some bullshit statement about Publisher?

    You wouldn't do very well in the real world. "I've got a flat tire",
    "Those Toyotas are no good - here, buy this lada..."
     
    Fred Dagg, Jul 16, 2007
    #6
  7. Bruce Sinclair

    Miguel Guest

    >On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 14:08:02 +1200, peterwn wrote:

    >> sam wrote:
    >>> Peter Jenkins wrote:
    >>> I have a friend who is wanting to abandon Windows and go down the open
    >>> source path (probably Kubuntu). Only snag is she often has to open and
    >>> work with Publisher files. Is there an open source equivalent to
    >>> Publisher that will allow her to open and even better edit Publisher
    >>> files under Linux?
    >>>
    >>> Thanks and Regards
    >>> Peter Jenkins
    >>> see http://www.sensiblesentencing.org.nz
    >>>
    >>>

    >> No, Microsoft like to keep their users locked in.

    >
    > Moreover earlier versions of Publisher fail with files produced or
    > updated by some later versions. Moreover again, the file is 100% valid
    > only with the nominated printer. If you wish to use a different
    > printer, it may be necessary to adjust something (eg remedy an
    > overflowing text box). I understand that printing houses, etc have
    > trouble.



    Things aren't looking good.....here's a snip from the following thread

    http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=486265&highlight=publisher

    <snip>
    Re: How can I get Microsoft Publisher working in Ubuntu?
    To summarise...:

    1) No, you are not able to run Microsoft Publisher in Linux just like
    this (without the use of some sort of virtualisation or emulation).
    2) No, as far as I know there is NO program being able to open .pub-files
    (execpt Publisher itself, of course).

    You may try following steps:

    1) Use virtualbox, vmware or other kind of virtualisation program to run
    Microsoft Windows (XP or whatever). Within the virtualised Windows you
    can run Publisher.
    It was already pointed out that performance may suffer.
    2) Try to run Publisher with an emulation programm such as wine, cedega
    or crossover. With those "tools" you might be able to install and run
    publisher without the need of windows. However, it may just not work.
    3) You look for another tool which does the same you need but runs under
    linux (and maybe even windows, too).

    </snip>

    Miguel
     
    Miguel, Jul 16, 2007
    #7
  8. Bruce Sinclair

    Fred Dagg Guest

    On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 05:25:27 +0200 (CEST), Miguel
    <> exclaimed:

    >>On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 14:08:02 +1200, peterwn wrote:

    >
    >>> sam wrote:
    >>>> Peter Jenkins wrote:
    >>>> I have a friend who is wanting to abandon Windows and go down the open
    >>>> source path (probably Kubuntu). Only snag is she often has to open and
    >>>> work with Publisher files. Is there an open source equivalent to
    >>>> Publisher that will allow her to open and even better edit Publisher
    >>>> files under Linux?
    >>>>
    >>>> Thanks and Regards
    >>>> Peter Jenkins
    >>>> see http://www.sensiblesentencing.org.nz
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>> No, Microsoft like to keep their users locked in.

    >>
    >> Moreover earlier versions of Publisher fail with files produced or
    >> updated by some later versions. Moreover again, the file is 100% valid
    >> only with the nominated printer. If you wish to use a different
    >> printer, it may be necessary to adjust something (eg remedy an
    >> overflowing text box). I understand that printing houses, etc have
    >> trouble.

    >
    >
    >Things aren't looking good.....here's a snip from the following thread
    >
    >http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=486265&highlight=publisher
    >
    ><snip>
    >Re: How can I get Microsoft Publisher working in Ubuntu?
    >To summarise...:
    >
    >1) No, you are not able to run Microsoft Publisher in Linux just like
    >this (without the use of some sort of virtualisation or emulation).
    >2) No, as far as I know there is NO program being able to open .pub-files
    >(execpt Publisher itself, of course).
    >
    >You may try following steps:
    >
    >1) Use virtualbox, vmware or other kind of virtualisation program to run
    >Microsoft Windows (XP or whatever). Within the virtualised Windows you
    >can run Publisher.
    >It was already pointed out that performance may suffer.
    >2) Try to run Publisher with an emulation programm such as wine, cedega
    >or crossover. With those "tools" you might be able to install and run
    >publisher without the need of windows. However, it may just not work.
    >3) You look for another tool which does the same you need but runs under
    >linux (and maybe even windows, too).


    4) Use Windows, where applications "Just Work" without having to hack
    up some sort of solution.
     
    Fred Dagg, Jul 16, 2007
    #8
  9. Bruce Sinclair

    Peter Guest

    Peter Jenkins wrote:
    > I have a friend who is wanting to abandon Windows and go down the open
    > source path (probably Kubuntu). Only snag is she often has to open and
    > work with Publisher files. Is there an open source equivalent to
    > Publisher that will allow her to open and even better edit Publisher
    > files under Linux?


    Publisher files?
    Short answer: no

    Publisher files are possibly the worst example of non-interoperability
    around. I used to use Publisher quite a bit at home, and had lots of
    difficulties with backwards AND forwards compatibility between versions of
    Publisher. Certainly taught me an important lesson about the trap of
    proprietary file formats.

    There are apps that do equivalent jobs in Linux. I like OOo writer, but
    there is also Scribus and Inkscape.

    HTH

    Peter
     
    Peter, Jul 16, 2007
    #9
  10. Bruce Sinclair

    sam Guest

    Fred Dagg wrote:
    > On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 05:25:27 +0200 (CEST), Miguel
    > <> exclaimed:
    >
    >>> On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 14:08:02 +1200, peterwn wrote:
    >>>> sam wrote:
    >>>>> Peter Jenkins wrote:
    >>>>> I have a friend who is wanting to abandon Windows and go down the open
    >>>>> source path (probably Kubuntu). Only snag is she often has to open and
    >>>>> work with Publisher files. Is there an open source equivalent to
    >>>>> Publisher that will allow her to open and even better edit Publisher
    >>>>> files under Linux?
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Thanks and Regards
    >>>>> Peter Jenkins
    >>>>> see http://www.sensiblesentencing.org.nz


    > 4) Use Windows, where applications "Just Work" without having to hack
    > up some sort of solution.


    But not an answer to the above question

    Even if you stick with Windows you are still stuck with the file format
    being unsupported by other applications, its rubbish.
     
    sam, Jul 16, 2007
    #10
  11. Bruce Sinclair

    Fred Dagg Guest

    On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 17:44:34 +1200, Peter <>
    exclaimed:

    >Peter Jenkins wrote:
    >> I have a friend who is wanting to abandon Windows and go down the open
    >> source path (probably Kubuntu). Only snag is she often has to open and
    >> work with Publisher files. Is there an open source equivalent to
    >> Publisher that will allow her to open and even better edit Publisher
    >> files under Linux?

    >
    >Publisher files?
    >Short answer: no
    >
    >Publisher files are possibly the worst example of non-interoperability
    >around. I used to use Publisher quite a bit at home, and had lots of
    >difficulties with backwards AND forwards compatibility between versions of
    >Publisher. Certainly taught me an important lesson about the trap of
    >proprietary file formats.
    >
    >There are apps that do equivalent jobs in Linux. I like OOo writer, but
    >there is also Scribus and Inkscape.
    >

    Which, incidentally, have problems reading each other's native formats
    (even though one is supposedly "open"), and cannot interoperate with
    other software, like Publisher, either...

    Oh well.
     
    Fred Dagg, Jul 16, 2007
    #11
  12. Bruce Sinclair

    Fred Dagg Guest

    On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 18:17:57 +1200, sam <>
    exclaimed:

    >Fred Dagg wrote:
    >> On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 05:25:27 +0200 (CEST), Miguel
    >> <> exclaimed:
    >>
    >>>> On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 14:08:02 +1200, peterwn wrote:
    >>>>> sam wrote:
    >>>>>> Peter Jenkins wrote:
    >>>>>> I have a friend who is wanting to abandon Windows and go down the open
    >>>>>> source path (probably Kubuntu). Only snag is she often has to open and
    >>>>>> work with Publisher files. Is there an open source equivalent to
    >>>>>> Publisher that will allow her to open and even better edit Publisher
    >>>>>> files under Linux?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Thanks and Regards
    >>>>>> Peter Jenkins
    >>>>>> see http://www.sensiblesentencing.org.nz

    >
    >> 4) Use Windows, where applications "Just Work" without having to hack
    >> up some sort of solution.

    >
    >But not an answer to the above question
    >
    >Even if you stick with Windows you are still stuck with the file format
    >being unsupported by other applications, its rubbish.


    Yes, but it just works. Everyone uses Publisher because it's the best
    tool for the job. Create a better tool, and I'm sure people will use
    it.

    Or are you going to again say that people don't use a free tool
    because of Microsoft's nasty marketing. Gee, I wish some of my
    companies had a marketing team that good!
     
    Fred Dagg, Jul 16, 2007
    #12
  13. Bruce Sinclair

    sam Guest

    Fred Dagg wrote:
    >Everyone uses Publisher because it's the best
    > tool for the job.



    ROTFL
    Classic !
     
    sam, Jul 16, 2007
    #13
  14. On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 17:44:34 +1200, Peter wrote:

    > Publisher files?
    > Short answer: no
    >
    > Publisher files are possibly the worst example of non-interoperability
    > around. I used to use Publisher quite a bit at home, and had lots of
    > difficulties with backwards AND forwards compatibility between versions of
    > Publisher. Certainly taught me an important lesson about the trap of
    > proprietary file formats.
    >
    > There are apps that do equivalent jobs in Linux. I like OOo writer, but
    > there is also Scribus and Inkscape.


    I agree.

    Scribus is more akin to Adobe Pagemaker - an application that can do
    considerably more than M$ Publisher.

    If you can wean your friend away from M$ Publisher and towards the more
    industry standard file formats that are fully supported by applications
    such as Pagemaker, Scribus, QuarkExpress, etc, then your friend will find
    the possibilities of what she can do very much expanded.


    --
    Jonathan Walker

    "You'll have to excuse me — I have a long
    bath and a short dress to get into."
     
    Jonathan Walker, Jul 16, 2007
    #14
  15. Hi there,

    Fred Dagg wrote:
    > On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 18:17:57 +1200, sam <>
    > exclaimed:
    >
    >>Fred Dagg wrote:
    >>
    >>>On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 05:25:27 +0200 (CEST), Miguel
    >>><> exclaimed:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>>On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 14:08:02 +1200, peterwn wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>>sam wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>>Peter Jenkins wrote:
    >>>>>>>I have a friend who is wanting to abandon Windows and go down the open
    >>>>>>>source path (probably Kubuntu). Only snag is she often has to open and
    >>>>>>>work with Publisher files. Is there an open source equivalent to
    >>>>>>>Publisher that will allow her to open and even better edit Publisher
    >>>>>>>files under Linux?
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>Thanks and Regards
    >>>>>>>Peter Jenkins
    >>>>>>>see http://www.sensiblesentencing.org.nz

    >>
    >>>4) Use Windows, where applications "Just Work" without having to hack
    >>>up some sort of solution.

    >>
    >>But not an answer to the above question
    >>
    >>Even if you stick with Windows you are still stuck with the file format
    >>being unsupported by other applications, its rubbish.

    >
    > Yes, but it just works. Everyone uses Publisher because it's the best
    > tool for the job. Create a better tool, and I'm sure people will use
    > it.
    >
    > Or are you going to again say that people don't use a free tool
    > because of Microsoft's nasty marketing. Gee, I wish some of my
    > companies had a marketing team that good!


    Nothing personal Fred, but I have doubts that someone in charge
    of 'companies' would be inclined to spend time posting stuff to
    a 2 bit usenet group. If I were any busier in my high-flying role
    as an Engineering Drafter I'm sure my infrequent usenet posting
    would cease altogether.

    --
    Kind regards,

    Chris Wilkinson, Brisbane, Australia.
    "Maybe politicians should ask the people whether
    or not they wanted all these wars"...
     
    Chris Wilkinson, Jul 16, 2007
    #15
  16. Bruce Sinclair

    Ross Guest

    On Sun, 15 Jul 2007 17:31:56 -0700, Peter Jenkins
    <> wrote:

    >I have a friend who is wanting to abandon Windows and go down the open
    >source path (probably Kubuntu). Only snag is she often has to open and
    >work with Publisher files. Is there an open source equivalent to
    >Publisher that will allow her to open and even better edit Publisher
    >files under Linux?
    >
    >Thanks and Regards
    >Peter Jenkins
    >see http://www.sensiblesentencing.org.nz


    To "open" a Publisher file, upload it to this online conversion site:
    https://www.pdfonline.com/convert_pdf.asp
    They will send it to you converted to PDF.

    That will allow you to extract the text and images into another
    program.
     
    Ross, Jul 16, 2007
    #16
  17. On Sun, 15 Jul 2007 17:31:56 -0700, Peter Jenkins
    <> wrote:
    > I have a friend who is wanting to abandon Windows and go down the open
    > source path (probably Kubuntu). Only snag is she often has to open and
    > work with Publisher files. Is there an open source equivalent to
    > Publisher that will allow her to open and even better edit Publisher
    > files under Linux?


    Short answer is no. Long answer is that Scribus will let her create
    new documents of the sort she does in Publisher. Scribus 2.0 is
    a good program, but she will have to go through a steepish learning
    curve. This isn't helped by the fact that most of the docs out there
    are for Scribus 1.x, and they are different.

    There are products (eg vmware) that will let you run a copy of Windows
    under Linux - and thus let you run Publisher. There is also a
    project called Wine that allows running individual Windows programs
    under Linux. I don't know how sucessful Publisher is running
    under Wine though.

    As people pointed out if you upgrade to a newer version of Publisher
    you tend to lose most of the ability to work with your old files so
    my strategy to make this work would be to migrate to Scribus or
    another publishing program when you would have moved to a new version
    of Publisher, and keep your old copy of Publisher available either
    on an existing machine or under something like vmware so you can
    read your old documents.

    Cheers, Liam

    >
    > Thanks and Regards
    > Peter Jenkins
    > see http://www.sensiblesentencing.org.nz
    >
     
    Liam Greenwood, Jul 16, 2007
    #17
  18. Bruce Sinclair

    brazen Guest

    "Jonathan Walker" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 17:44:34 +1200, Peter wrote:
    >
    >> Publisher files?
    >> Short answer: no
    >>
    >> Publisher files are possibly the worst example of non-interoperability
    >> around. I used to use Publisher quite a bit at home, and had lots of
    >> difficulties with backwards AND forwards compatibility between versions
    >> of
    >> Publisher. Certainly taught me an important lesson about the trap of
    >> proprietary file formats.
    >>
    >> There are apps that do equivalent jobs in Linux. I like OOo writer, but
    >> there is also Scribus and Inkscape.

    >
    > I agree.
    >
    > Scribus is more akin to Adobe Pagemaker - an application that can do
    > considerably more than M$ Publisher.
    >
    > If you can wean your friend away from M$ Publisher and towards the more
    > industry standard file formats that are fully supported by applications
    > such as Pagemaker, Scribus, QuarkExpress, etc, then your friend will find
    > the possibilities of what she can do very much expanded.
    >

    lol. classic. The fact is that businesses use Microsoft.

    I have a neighbour who uses various configurations (mac, pc, microsoft,
    linux) and spouts off about the marvels of Linux. He's a greenie and hates
    all large corporations, especially Microsoft and Telecom. Not sure what will
    happen when Linux become a large corporation in his eyes, but hey, thats his
    problem.

    But he also tells me how long he spends trying open source this and open
    source that. "Have you tried.....x programme" (course I havent, I've been
    too busy working) Luckily he has a very clever wife who brings home the
    bacon so he has lots of time to fiddle around with his computer instead of
    finishing building the house, that he started 15 years ago. So they live in
    one room of an unfinished log cabin while he potters away trialling all
    these marvelous open source tools... but thats another story.

    Anyway I had a chat with him the other day and he was surprised that when he
    asked me how many of my customers use Linux, I said "none". Really
    surprised. Businesses use Microsoft. Not because they love it, but because
    it works, it has good products, all of their customers use it and they dont
    have the time to **** around with open source this and open source that like
    people with too much time on their hands. They are *businesses* - they dont
    care about things as inconsequential as operating systems - their focus is
    making money. End of story.

    Gay
     
    brazen, Jul 16, 2007
    #18
  19. Bruce Sinclair

    none Guest

    brazen wrote:
    > surprised. Businesses use Microsoft. Not because they love it, but because
    > it works, it has good products, all of their customers use it and they dont


    Small businesses use Microsoft, sure some large ones do as well, but
    they're more an SME platform.

    You'll find a significant portion of larger organisations have a much
    more pervasive Linux presence.

    Guarantee the news server you posted this message through is a Linux
    variant.
     
    none, Jul 16, 2007
    #19
  20. Bruce Sinclair

    Steve Guest

    On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 09:40:00 +1200, brazen wrote:

    > "Jonathan Walker" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 17:44:34 +1200, Peter wrote:
    >>
    >>> Publisher files?
    >>> Short answer: no
    >>>
    >>> Publisher files are possibly the worst example of non-interoperability
    >>> around. I used to use Publisher quite a bit at home, and had lots of
    >>> difficulties with backwards AND forwards compatibility between versions
    >>> of
    >>> Publisher. Certainly taught me an important lesson about the trap of
    >>> proprietary file formats.
    >>>
    >>> There are apps that do equivalent jobs in Linux. I like OOo writer, but
    >>> there is also Scribus and Inkscape.

    >>
    >> I agree.
    >>
    >> Scribus is more akin to Adobe Pagemaker - an application that can do
    >> considerably more than M$ Publisher.
    >>
    >> If you can wean your friend away from M$ Publisher and towards the more
    >> industry standard file formats that are fully supported by applications
    >> such as Pagemaker, Scribus, QuarkExpress, etc, then your friend will find
    >> the possibilities of what she can do very much expanded.
    >>

    > lol. classic. The fact is that businesses use Microsoft.
    >
    > I have a neighbour who uses various configurations (mac, pc, microsoft,
    > linux) and spouts off about the marvels of Linux. He's a greenie and hates
    > all large corporations, especially Microsoft and Telecom. Not sure what will
    > happen when Linux become a large corporation in his eyes, but hey, thats his
    > problem.
    >
    > But he also tells me how long he spends trying open source this and open
    > source that. "Have you tried.....x programme" (course I havent, I've been
    > too busy working) Luckily he has a very clever wife who brings home the
    > bacon so he has lots of time to fiddle around with his computer instead of
    > finishing building the house, that he started 15 years ago. So they live in
    > one room of an unfinished log cabin while he potters away trialling all
    > these marvelous open source tools... but thats another story.
    >
    > Anyway I had a chat with him the other day and he was surprised that when he
    > asked me how many of my customers use Linux, I said "none". Really
    > surprised. Businesses use Microsoft. Not because they love it, but because
    > it works, it has good products, all of their customers use it and they dont
    > have the time to **** around with open source this and open source that like
    > people with too much time on their hands. They are *businesses* - they dont
    > care about things as inconsequential as operating systems - their focus is
    > making money. End of story.
    >
    > Gay


    Well Gay, I think you'll find that you've shot yourself in the foot with a
    far too general 'business'. You've obviously never tried the dark side
    either, but that's not the point.

    None of my customers use Microsoft for anything except for providing their
    desktop. And that's how it should be. It was never designed as a multiuser
    system, and security seems to be a bolted on afterthought even on
    vista. But as soon as anyone starts talking IIS, then we get a good laugh
    at their expense. How often has trademe fallen over today, for example??
     
    Steve, Jul 16, 2007
    #20
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