HDD temps.

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by ~misfit~, Dec 6, 2003.

  1. ~misfit~

    ~misfit~ Guest

    I have a Seagate ST380011A, 80GB, 7,200 rpm drive. According to the manual
    it's operating temp range is 0°C-60°C.

    I have made some changes to airflow/cooling in my case. My CPU is 8-10°
    cooler because of this. The HDD used to run at 28-32° and now regularly sits
    on 42°. I have made an effort to lower it's temp but am having problems.
    Basically my case is crap, but it was cheap. ;-).

    As the HDD only has a one-year warranty should I be worried about the temp?

    Any comments welcome.
    --
    ~misfit~
    I have a Seagate ST380011A, 80GB, 7,200 rpm drive. According to the manual
    it's operating temp range is 0°C-60°C.

    I have made some changes to airflow/cooling in my case. My CPU is 8-10°
    cooler because of this. The HDD used to run at 28-32° and now regularly sits
    on 42°. I have made an effort to lower it's temp but am having problems.
    Basically my case is crap, but it was cheap. ;-).

    As the HDD only has a one-year warranty should I be worried about the temp?

    Any comments welcome.
    --
    ~misfit~
     
    ~misfit~, Dec 6, 2003
    #1
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  2. On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 02:07:02 +1300, ~misfit~ wrote:

    > As the HDD only has a one-year warranty should I be worried about the temp?


    Yes. Every 10C increase in operating temperature == half the operational
    life. The hotter (less dense) air inside the case also means the ride
    height might get adversely affected too.

    You can buy 3.5-5.25" bay adaptors with built in fans. You might want to
    consider getting one of these, or repositioning the drive so that air from
    th einlet fan is playing over it.

    Case ducting is cheap and easy to make. All you need is light cardboard
    from warehouse stationery...
     
    Uncle StoatWarbler, Dec 6, 2003
    #2
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  3. ~misfit~

    T.N.O. Guest

    Uncle StoatWarbler wrote:
    > Case ducting is cheap and easy to make. All you need is light cardboard
    > from warehouse stationery...


    Or spare plastic Dell mousepads from work :)
     
    T.N.O., Dec 6, 2003
    #3
  4. ~misfit~

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Uncle StoatWarbler wrote:
    > On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 02:07:02 +1300, ~misfit~ wrote:
    >
    >> As the HDD only has a one-year warranty should I be worried about
    >> the temp?

    >
    > Yes. Every 10C increase in operating temperature == half the
    > operational life. The hotter (less dense) air inside the case also
    > means the ride height might get adversely affected too.


    Hmm.

    > You can buy 3.5-5.25" bay adaptors with built in fans. You might want
    > to consider getting one of these, or repositioning the drive so that
    > air from th einlet fan is playing over it.


    I have an adaptor but it isn't 80-wire/ATA100. I've made an attempt to duct
    air over the HDD but it obviously hasn't been very effective. As I said,
    it's a cheap case and is hard to work with.

    > Case ducting is cheap and easy to make. All you need is light
    > cardboard from warehouse stationery...


    I modified a plastic duct from a Dell that was designed for using an 80mm
    case fan for cooling a CPU.

    Cheers,
    --
    ~misfit~


    ---
    Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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    ~misfit~, Dec 6, 2003
    #4
  5. On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 10:49:51 +1300, ~misfit~ wrote:

    >> You can buy 3.5-5.25" bay adaptors with built in fans. You might want
    >> to consider getting one of these, or repositioning the drive so that
    >> air from th einlet fan is playing over it.

    >
    > I have an adaptor but it isn't 80-wire/ATA100.


    Huh? The adaptors I'm talking about are simply drive mounts, the cables
    plug into the drive, no removeable drawers, etc

    The DSE XH-5092 is one idea - overkill.

    The ones I'm thinking of (picked one up in LA) simply have a small fan in
    the 5.25" front panel blowing air over the drive.


    > I've made an attempt to duct
    > air over the HDD but it obviously hasn't been very effective. As I said,
    > it's a cheap case and is hard to work with.


    You get what you pay for. Hopefully it isn't as nasty as the old Edge
    cases which had so many sharp edges that you'd be bleeding before you even
    picked up a screwdriver.
     
    Uncle StoatWarbler, Dec 7, 2003
    #5
  6. ~misfit~

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Uncle StoatWarbler wrote:
    > On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 10:49:51 +1300, ~misfit~ wrote:
    >
    >>> You can buy 3.5-5.25" bay adaptors with built in fans. You might
    >>> want to consider getting one of these, or repositioning the drive
    >>> so that air from th einlet fan is playing over it.

    >>
    >> I have an adaptor but it isn't 80-wire/ATA100.

    >
    > Huh? The adaptors I'm talking about are simply drive mounts, the
    > cables plug into the drive, no removeable drawers, etc


    Ok, I was refering to a removable tray-type thing. With a fan. I have a
    couple here.

    > The DSE XH-5092 is one idea - overkill.


    I'll have a look. Hmmm, $33.

    > The ones I'm thinking of (picked one up in LA) simply have a small
    > fan in the 5.25" front panel blowing air over the drive.
    >
    >
    >> I've made an attempt to duct
    >> air over the HDD but it obviously hasn't been very effective. As I
    >> said, it's a cheap case and is hard to work with.

    >
    > You get what you pay for. Hopefully it isn't as nasty as the old Edge
    > cases which had so many sharp edges that you'd be bleeding before you
    > even picked up a screwdriver.


    In this case (pun unintentional) I got what I could afford. And yes, I did
    bleed. I have one large bay left, I'll have to consider my options.

    Thanks,
    --
    ~misfit~


    ---
    Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
    Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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    ~misfit~, Dec 7, 2003
    #6
  7. ~misfit~

    Gordon Guest

    On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 15:47:37 +0100, Uncle StoatWarbler wrote:

    > On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 02:07:02 +1300, ~misfit~ wrote:
    >
    >> As the HDD only has a one-year warranty should I be worried about the temp?

    >
    > Yes. Every 10C increase in operating temperature == half the operational
    > life. The hotter (less dense) air inside the case also means the ride
    > height might get adversely affected too.


    We are not talking about a chemical reaction here Uncle.

    --
    Fairy stories exist so children get used to real life
     
    Gordon, Dec 7, 2003
    #7
  8. ~misfit~

    Gordon Guest

    On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 02:07:02 +1300, ~misfit~ wrote:

    > I have a Seagate ST380011A, 80GB, 7,200 rpm drive. According to the manual
    > it's operating temp range is 0°C-60°C.
    >
    > I have made some changes to airflow/cooling in my case. My CPU is 8-10°
    > cooler because of this. The HDD used to run at 28-32° and now regularly sits
    > on 42°. I have made an effort to lower it's temp but am having problems.
    > Basically my case is crap, but it was cheap. ;-).


    The manufacturer will be on the conservative side with the specs, you are
    within them so what about your blood pressure and cholestrol levels? All
    okay then woory about the HD temp or the meaning of life.

    --
    Fairy stories exist so children get used to real life
     
    Gordon, Dec 7, 2003
    #8
  9. ~misfit~

    harry Guest

    On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 18:09:46 +1300, Gordon wrote:

    > On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 15:47:37 +0100, Uncle StoatWarbler wrote:
    >
    >> On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 02:07:02 +1300, ~misfit~ wrote:
    >>
    >>> As the HDD only has a one-year warranty should I be worried about the temp?

    >>
    >> Yes. Every 10C increase in operating temperature == half the operational
    >> life. The hotter (less dense) air inside the case also means the ride
    >> height might get adversely affected too.

    >
    > We are not talking about a chemical reaction here Uncle.


    The spindle lubricant evaporates faster too.
     
    harry, Dec 7, 2003
    #9
  10. ~misfit~

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Gordon wrote:
    > On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 02:07:02 +1300, ~misfit~ wrote:
    >
    >> I have a Seagate ST380011A, 80GB, 7,200 rpm drive. According to the
    >> manual it's operating temp range is 0°C-60°C.
    >>
    >> I have made some changes to airflow/cooling in my case. My CPU is
    >> 8-10° cooler because of this. The HDD used to run at 28-32° and now
    >> regularly sits on 42°. I have made an effort to lower it's temp but
    >> am having problems. Basically my case is crap, but it was cheap. ;-).

    >
    > The manufacturer will be on the conservative side with the specs, you
    > are within them so what about your blood pressure and cholestrol
    > levels? All okay then woory about the HD temp or the meaning of life.


    Blood pressure and cholestorol fine thanks.

    I thought about Uncle's comment after I replied. It's a bit arbitrary, maybe
    every 10°C above max spec (60°C in this case) halves the life of the drive.
    Or something. Otherwise water-cooling of drives would be a lot more common.
    If you take the MTB temp to be x then every 10° below x you'd double the
    life of your drive. I wonder what x is equal to? I might have to get a
    phase-change cooler for my HDD. Make it last a few hundred years. (If x is
    equal to 30° then, if I kept the temp at 0°, the lowest it's specced for, I
    could quadruple the life of my drive. If x is equal to 60° then I could
    increase the life-span of my drive by a factor 32 by keeping it at 0°)
    --
    ~misfit~


    ---
    Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
    Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
    Version: 6.0.548 / Virus Database: 341 - Release Date: 5/12/2003
     
    ~misfit~, Dec 7, 2003
    #10
  11. ~misfit~

    T.N.O. Guest

    Gordon wrote:
    >>>As the HDD only has a one-year warranty should I be worried about the temp?


    >>Yes. Every 10C increase in operating temperature == half the operational
    >>life. The hotter (less dense) air inside the case also means the ride
    >>height might get adversely affected too.


    > We are not talking about a chemical reaction here Uncle.


    not exactly, but the effects of heat on things would be termed some sort
    of thermo reaction wouldn't it?
     
    T.N.O., Dec 7, 2003
    #11
  12. On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 18:09:46 +1300, Gordon wrote:

    >> Yes. Every 10C increase in operating temperature == half the operational
    >> life. The hotter (less dense) air inside the case also means the ride
    >> height might get adversely affected too.

    >
    > We are not talking about a chemical reaction here Uncle.


    No, we're talking about the flow of air over a venturi device causing
    lift.

    how do you think HDD heads raise off the platters? Skyhooks?
     
    Uncle StoatWarbler, Dec 7, 2003
    #12
  13. ~misfit~

    Bret Guest

    On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 14:28:03 +0100, "Uncle StoatWarbler"
    <> wrote:

    >On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 18:09:46 +1300, Gordon wrote:
    >
    >>> Yes. Every 10C increase in operating temperature == half the operational
    >>> life. The hotter (less dense) air inside the case also means the ride
    >>> height might get adversely affected too.

    >>
    >> We are not talking about a chemical reaction here Uncle.

    >
    >No, we're talking about the flow of air over a venturi device causing
    >lift.
    >
    >how do you think HDD heads raise off the platters? Skyhooks?
    >

    That's not correct Uncle, the venturi effect causes a reduction in air
    pressure at the venturi due to the increase in velocity.Perhaps you
    are thinking of "ground effects".
     
    Bret, Dec 7, 2003
    #13
  14. ~misfit~

    harry Guest

    On Mon, 08 Dec 2003 08:54:48 +1300, Bret wrote:

    > On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 14:28:03 +0100, "Uncle StoatWarbler"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >>On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 18:09:46 +1300, Gordon wrote:
    >>
    >>>> Yes. Every 10C increase in operating temperature == half the operational
    >>>> life. The hotter (less dense) air inside the case also means the ride
    >>>> height might get adversely affected too.
    >>>
    >>> We are not talking about a chemical reaction here Uncle.

    >>
    >>No, we're talking about the flow of air over a venturi device causing
    >>lift.
    >>
    >>how do you think HDD heads raise off the platters? Skyhooks?
    >>

    > That's not correct Uncle, the venturi effect causes a reduction in air
    > pressure at the venturi due to the increase in velocity.Perhaps you
    > are thinking of "ground effects".


    The air carried by the surface is called the boundary layer IIRC
    The head will be sucked in to the boundary layer according to the
    Bernoulli fluid equation.
    A decrease in density due to heat would be the same as a decrease in
    velocity, so the head would be sucked in less.
    Am I right.
    (IANAP)
     
    harry, Dec 7, 2003
    #14
  15. ~misfit~

    Brendan Guest

    On Sun, 7 Dec 2003 02:07:02 +1300, "~misfit~" <~misfit~@his_desk.com>
    wrote:

    >I have made some changes to airflow/cooling in my case. My CPU is 8-10°
    >cooler because of this. The HDD used to run at 28-32° and now regularly sits
    >on 42°. I have made an effort to lower it's temp but am having problems.
    >Basically my case is crap, but it was cheap. ;-).


    Try mounting your HD to the bottom of your case. You might have to
    drill a couple of holes in the bottom for the HD screws, and maybe an
    extension molex cord for the power.

    Ideally it'd be inline of some fan.

    --

    ....Brendan

    Under capitalism, man exploits man.
    Under communism, it's just the opposite.
    J.K.Galbraith

    Note: All comments are copyright 2003, and are opinion only where not otherwise stated, and always 'to the best of my reccollection'.
     
    Brendan, Dec 7, 2003
    #15
  16. ~misfit~

    Bret Guest

    On Mon, 08 Dec 2003 10:25:31 +1300, harry <> wrote:

    >On Mon, 08 Dec 2003 08:54:48 +1300, Bret wrote:
    >
    >> On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 14:28:03 +0100, "Uncle StoatWarbler"
    >> <> wrote:
    >>
    >>>On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 18:09:46 +1300, Gordon wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>> Yes. Every 10C increase in operating temperature == half the operational
    >>>>> life. The hotter (less dense) air inside the case also means the ride
    >>>>> height might get adversely affected too.
    >>>>
    >>>> We are not talking about a chemical reaction here Uncle.
    >>>
    >>>No, we're talking about the flow of air over a venturi device causing
    >>>lift.
    >>>
    >>>how do you think HDD heads raise off the platters? Skyhooks?
    >>>

    >> That's not correct Uncle, the venturi effect causes a reduction in air
    >> pressure at the venturi due to the increase in velocity.Perhaps you
    >> are thinking of "ground effects".

    >
    >The air carried by the surface is called the boundary layer IIRC
    >The head will be sucked in to the boundary layer according to the
    >Bernoulli fluid equation.
    >A decrease in density due to heat would be the same as a decrease in
    >velocity, so the head would be sucked in less.
    >Am I right.
    >(IANAP)
    >

    If the head is floating on a cusion of air, and the density of the air
    is reduced, would that cause the head to float lower?
    I also am NAP :)
     
    Bret, Dec 8, 2003
    #16
  17. ~misfit~

    The Flash Guest


    >
    > We are not talking about a chemical reaction here Uncle.
    >
    > --
    > Fairy stories exist so children get used to real life
    >


    Yes you are, oxidisation of conductors, breakdown of seals, breakdown inside
    the ESR capacitors. Basic chemical reactions.

    Within non damaging thermal ranges, raise the temp 10 degrees, half the
    life.

    To test HDD life they heatsoak until failure to get MTBF.
     
    The Flash, Dec 8, 2003
    #17
  18. "~misfit~" <~misfit~@his_desk.com> writes:

    >Gordon wrote:
    >> On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 02:07:02 +1300, ~misfit~ wrote:
    >>
    >>> I have a Seagate ST380011A, 80GB, 7,200 rpm drive. According to the
    >>> manual it's operating temp range is 0°C-60°C.
    >>>
    >>> I have made some changes to airflow/cooling in my case. My CPU is
    >>> 8-10° cooler because of this. The HDD used to run at 28-32° and now
    >>> regularly sits on 42°. I have made an effort to lower it's temp but
    >>> am having problems. Basically my case is crap, but it was cheap. ;-).

    >>
    >> The manufacturer will be on the conservative side with the specs, you
    >> are within them so what about your blood pressure and cholestrol
    >> levels? All okay then woory about the HD temp or the meaning of life.


    >Blood pressure and cholestorol fine thanks.


    >I thought about Uncle's comment after I replied. It's a bit arbitrary, maybe
    >every 10°C above max spec (60°C in this case) halves the life of the drive.
    >Or something.


    Definitely "or something". It's an urban legend from the semiconductor field,
    where MIL-STD-883 (covering semiconductor life tests) gives it as a means of
    MTTF estimation for certain types of semiconductors under certain conditions.
    http://nppp.jpl.nasa.gov/asic/Appendix.7.html is a good introduction to this
    field, note particularly the comment that "in general, models from these
    sources have not proven credible when predicting reliability quantitatively".

    Any cooks want to comment on the claim that cooking time halves for every 10
    deg. you raise the temperature?

    Peter.
     
    Peter Gutmann, Dec 8, 2003
    #18
  19. On Mon, 08 Dec 2003 10:36:55 +0000, Peter Gutmann wrote:

    > Definitely "or something". It's an urban legend from the semiconductor field,


    It may be an urban legend but all the semiconductor design manuals use it as a
    rule of thumb.

    FWIW, unrelated: automotive spec is far tougher than mil spec for
    temperature, voltage and electrical noise specs yet still uses
    that rule of thumb.
     
    Uncle StoatWarbler, Dec 8, 2003
    #19
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