HD-DVD Outsells Beta Ray - Amazon. No Beta Ray in top 25.

Discussion in 'DVD Video' started by Luke Duke, Dec 28, 2007.

  1. Luke Duke

    Leroy Guest


    >
    > No it isn't, it's taken 3 months for the Blade Runner Blu-ray to drop down
    > the charts, this dickless gimp has had to wait all year for this one blip
    > in the charts to cross post this shit all over usenet.
    >



    Blade Runner has been out for less then 2 weeks for both formats..
     
    Leroy, Dec 29, 2007
    #21
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  2. Luke Duke

    Leroy Guest

    "Big Daddy" <> wrote in message
    news:n9udj.59501$...
    >
    > "dork" <> wrote in message
    > news:pCodj.36559$vd4.8721@pd7urf1no...
    >
    >> Which makes beta Ray more prone to damage and rot.

    >
    > utter nonsense
    >


    He's right. The data is very close to the top of the disk so they HAD to put
    an extra coating on it. My kids wrecked 2 of my Blu discs. the scratch thing
    marketing imo and just adds to the cost plus is of minimal help anyway. No
    substitute for proper handling.

    All this Next Gen stuff should be on cartridges or flash media ROMs or
    something!
     
    Leroy, Dec 29, 2007
    #22
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  3. Luke Duke

    Big Daddy Guest

    "Leroy" <> wrote in message
    news:Xkwdj.37761$DP1.5659@pd7urf2no...
    > He's right.


    no, he's not.

    >The data is very close to the top of the disk so they HAD to put an extra
    >coating on it.


    Has nothing to do with "rotting". The disks are not "prone" to rotting.
     
    Big Daddy, Dec 29, 2007
    #23
  4. Luke Duke

    Winfield Guest

    Shonk wrote:
    > why are people so negative about blu-ray


    I'm guessing the company most associated with Blu-Ray - Sony, has
    something to do with all the bad vibes.


    > I love my 360 and have nearly 50k gamer score
    >
    > But blu-ray is clearly the better format



    Yep. HD-DVD is a transition format. Blu-Ray is supposed to be the
    future bride and darling of high definition DVD.

    Saw above synopsis on some industry insider web page. Didn't want to
    pay $1,200 for the rest of the PDF analysis paper.

    Sony has been known to drop the ball by lack of support for key players
    and distributors in the past.

    Blu-Ray supposedly has that Java-enabled everything. I did see a 2006
    article by a smaller developer complaining about "no help" from Sony on
    this. Microsoft supports it's Windows community with SDK kits and .Net
    frameworks.

    Sony was charging smaller developers $60,000 and $40,000 for it's
    Blu-Ray Java developers kits, glue, scissors and graph paper.

    Let's see if Sony can get it's shithead attitude straightened out this
    time. It only took them ~10 years to market an on-the-rocks MP3
    portable player without their "Sonic Sound Stage" and proprietary format
    features.

    (Careless factual errors in my rant are property of my black kitty-cat.)
    - Winfield
     
    Winfield, Dec 29, 2007
    #24
  5. Luke Duke

    Lyrik Guest

    Den 28.12.2007 kl. 23:11 skrev Bells <>:


    > They all scratch equally.
    > Blu Ray disks have a rot problem though that is becoming common on DVD's
    > I have 2 that have gone bad.
    >
    > http://www.digg.com/tech_news/Blu_ray_disc_coatings_starting_to_rot
    >
    > http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=857067

    .................................
    Well I have expected something of the sort. The data layer sticks only 0..1
    mm under the surface. So they in the panic overlayered it with a hard
    coat. The sandwich consists of two different materials with two different
    expansion data.
    The heat from the laser and player will make the disc enlarge and retract
    in different tempi for the two layers. Little cracks develop like little
    bubbles or slips between the layers. That's what I think!;)
    0.1 distance to the surface is just too little.

    HD-DVD has 0.6 mm to the data, the same as ordinary DVD's. Thats tested
    and OK.


    --
    Greetings from Jens "Lyrik" Bech.
     
    Lyrik, Dec 30, 2007
    #25
  6. Luke Duke

    POD {Ò¿Ó} Guest

    "Leroy" <> once tried to test me. I ate their
    liver with some fava beans and a nice chianti

    >
    >>
    >> No it isn't, it's taken 3 months for the Blade Runner Blu-ray to drop
    >> down the charts, this dickless gimp has had to wait all year for this
    >> one blip in the charts to cross post this shit all over usenet.
    >>

    >
    >
    > Blade Runner has been out for less then 2 weeks for both formats..
    >
    >
    >
    >


    PRESALES!!!!! It was in Amazon's chart since they started listing it.
    Their system is a bit rubbish as it doesn't differentiate between what
    is going out the doors and what won't be released for 3 months hence

    --
    Thank you kindly

    POD {Ò¿Ó}
    ¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸
    Oh people, know that you have committed great sins.
    If you ask me what proof I have for these words,
    I say it is because I am the punishment of God.
    If you had not committed great sins,
    God would not have sent a punishment like me upon you.
    ¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸
     
    POD {Ò¿Ó}, Dec 30, 2007
    #26
  7. Luke Duke

    L Alpert Guest

    Big Daddy wrote:
    > "Leroy" <> wrote in message
    > news:Xkwdj.37761$DP1.5659@pd7urf2no...
    >> He's right.

    >
    > no, he's not.
    >
    >> The data is very close to the top of the disk so they HAD to put an
    >> extra coating on it.

    >
    > Has nothing to do with "rotting". The disks are not "prone" to
    > rotting.


    Rotting? Polycarbonate "rotting"? Never heard of this. There can be
    damage due to UV exposure, though if this is a problem for a specific
    device, there can be UV inhibitors used in the base polymer.

    The disc itself should outlive the useful life of the technology.
     
    L Alpert, Dec 30, 2007
    #27
  8. Luke Duke

    T.B. Guest

    "POD {Ò¿Ó}" wrote:

    (snip)

    > HD DVD fans are like Mac users, they feel so insecure about their wrong
    > purchasing choice that they need to take swipes at the opposing
    > technology.


    Too funny.

    T.B.
     
    T.B., Dec 30, 2007
    #28
  9. Luke Duke

    T.B. Guest

    Appropriately named "dork" babbled:

    > Another thing, Warner Brothers masters ALL it's new HD stuff in HD-DVD
    > first, then copies it to Blu ray.
    > So if your watching a Blu ..Beta Ray WB movie, it's just a copy of an
    > HD-DVD.


    That's got to be the dumbest thing I've read in this newsgroup, and believe
    me, a lot of stupid comments have been posted here over the years.

    T.B.
     
    T.B., Dec 30, 2007
    #29
  10. Luke Duke

    T.B. Guest

    Appropriately named "dork" babbled:

    > Another thing, Warner Brothers masters ALL it's new HD stuff in HD-DVD
    > first, then copies it to Blu ray.
    > So if your watching a Blu ..Beta Ray WB movie, it's just a copy of an
    > HD-DVD.


    That's got to be the dumbest thing I've read in this newsgroup, and believe
    me, a lot of stupid comments have been posted here over the years.

    T.B.
     
    T.B., Dec 30, 2007
    #30
  11. T.B. wrote:
    > Appropriately named "dork" babbled:
    >
    >> Another thing, Warner Brothers masters ALL it's new HD stuff in HD-DVD
    >> first, then copies it to Blu ray.
    >> So if your watching a Blu ..Beta Ray WB movie, it's just a copy of an
    >> HD-DVD.

    >
    >
    > That's got to be the dumbest thing I've read in this newsgroup, and believe
    > me, a lot of stupid comments have been posted here over the years.


    Yeah, it's like he couldn't even tell the difference between VC-1 and
    MPEG-4 AVC! ;)

    Derek Janssen (uh, he happens to be correct)
     
    Derek Janssen, Dec 30, 2007
    #31
  12. T.B. wrote:

    > Appropriately named "dork" babbled:
    >
    >> Another thing, Warner Brothers masters ALL it's new HD stuff in HD-DVD
    >> first, then copies it to Blu ray.
    >> So if your watching a Blu ..Beta Ray WB movie, it's just a copy of an
    >> HD-DVD.

    >
    >
    > That's got to be the dumbest thing I've read in this newsgroup, and believe
    > me, a lot of stupid comments have been posted here over the years.


    Well, let's wipe away such foolishness with some data-crunching
    evidence, then, shan't we?: :)

    Given that VC-1 is the said codec used for HD-DVD releases, and Blu-ray
    champions MPEG-4 AVC, we at least have references to check which title
    uses which--

    So, as we can see from a sampling of titles from the dedicated-Blu
    trilogy of Disney, Fox, and Sony, the listed "Video Codecs" for mastering:
    Disney:
    http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/movies.php?id=306
    http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/movies.php?id=507
    Fox:
    http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/movies.php?id=560
    http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/movies.php?id=601
    Sony:
    http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/movies.php?id=546
    http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/movies.php?id=349

    And the video codecs for Warner?--Ha! No difference at all:
    http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/movies.php?id=545
    http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/movies.php?id=571
    http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/movies.php?id=375

    (Ho, ho, that's rich! "Warner using one crappy HD codec because they're
    too cheap-bastard to master two separate releases, and singlehandedly
    representing the biggest setback about keeping a dual-format war
    going"...As if! Yuk yuk! What a maroon!) ;)

    Derek Janssen
     
    Derek Janssen, Dec 30, 2007
    #32
  13. Luke Duke

    Bogdan Macri Guest

    dork wrote:
    > "Jordan" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> On Dec 28, 1:48 pm, "Shonk" <> wrote:
    >>
    >>> why are people so negative about blu-ray

    >> Because Sony shouldn't be allowed to control the entire distribution
    >> chain from the time a movie is made through it being sold to the
    >> consumer.
    >>
    >>> 50gig a disk

    >
    > Toshiba has a 51GB disk approved by all members including Disney. By the
    > time it arrives later this year it will be a finished and fully tested spec
    > unlike Beta Ray.


    Guess what Einstein... it will NOT arrive this year, since there are
    only two more days left from your own post... and don't hold your breath
    for it coming up any time soon... The 100GB BD format is more compatible
    with the current BD players than the 51GB is with the current HD DVD
    players (read Toshiba).

    >
    > note that MOST Beta Ray movies are still on 30GB disks.


    Beta Ray (I'm assuming you're trying to be witty here)... that's cool,
    except for one thing... it does not help your cause, especially when you
    think of BetaMax being supported by one hardware manufacturer, just like
    HD DVD is presently.

    HD DVD is not in the greatest of shape, not even in your mind...
    otherwise you'd not stoop so low out of the blue... you're way too
    desperate bud!

    >
    > In fact most games especially from EA that are on the PS3 are just regular
    > old...DVD's.
    >
    > Another thing, Warner Brothers masters ALL it's new HD stuff in HD-DVD
    > first, then copies it to Blu ray.
    > So if your watching a Blu ..Beta Ray WB movie, it's just a copy of an
    > HD-DVD.
    >
    >
    >


    I'm sorry to hear that if I buy a "Blu-ray" disc made by Warner I'm only
    getting HD DVD quality... that's pretty low of WB :)



    --


    ------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Bogdan Macri - Photography & Consulting

    bogdan dot macri at geemail dot com
     
    Bogdan Macri, Dec 30, 2007
    #33
  14. Bogdan Macri wrote:
    > dork wrote:
    >>
    >> Another thing, Warner Brothers masters ALL it's new HD stuff in HD-DVD
    >> first, then copies it to Blu ray.
    >> So if your watching a Blu ..Beta Ray WB movie, it's just a copy of an
    >> HD-DVD.

    >
    > I'm sorry to hear that if I buy a "Blu-ray" disc made by Warner I'm only
    > getting HD DVD quality... that's pretty low of WB :)


    It's become the "symbol" of why the industry just isn't working under
    that dual-format system that the draft-dodgers think is so "livable" and
    "economic":
    Unless companies want to spend money creating two separately different
    industries--which Warner, for one, DOESN'T--any industry with two
    different formats is forced to sell to the Lowest Common Denominator.
    And as long as HD-DVD exists, *that* just happens to be Lowest.
    And that seems to be the problem with all the Dual-format studios right
    now...Oops, wait. There's aren't "all the dual studios" anymore, are
    there? Just Warner.

    Trust us: When we say we want to wipe HD off the face of the earth,
    it's not brand loyalty or rah-rah cheerleading for "evil" Sony.
    It's wondering just how darn long we're going to have to suffer for
    buying an innately defective product, when all the machinery is readily
    available to NOT make it defective.

    Derek Janssen (CES'08 Countdown: 9 days...At this point, we'll even
    take a VC-1 Casablanca, if it's one more step toward Unconditional
    Warner Surrender)
     
    Derek Janssen, Dec 31, 2007
    #34
  15. In article <lwXdj.2271$sX5.1177@trndny01>,
    Derek Janssen <> wrote:

    > Bogdan Macri wrote:
    > > dork wrote:
    > >>
    > >> Another thing, Warner Brothers masters ALL it's new HD stuff in HD-DVD
    > >> first, then copies it to Blu ray.
    > >> So if your watching a Blu ..Beta Ray WB movie, it's just a copy of an
    > >> HD-DVD.

    > >
    > > I'm sorry to hear that if I buy a "Blu-ray" disc made by Warner I'm only
    > > getting HD DVD quality... that's pretty low of WB :)

    >
    > It's become the "symbol" of why the industry just isn't working under
    > that dual-format system that the draft-dodgers think is so "livable" and
    > "economic":
    > Unless companies want to spend money creating two separately different
    > industries--which Warner, for one, DOESN'T--any industry with two
    > different formats is forced to sell to the Lowest Common Denominator.
    > And as long as HD-DVD exists, *that* just happens to be Lowest.
    > And that seems to be the problem with all the Dual-format studios right
    > now...Oops, wait. There's aren't "all the dual studios" anymore, are
    > there? Just Warner.
    >
    > Trust us: When we say we want to wipe HD off the face of the earth,
    > it's not brand loyalty or rah-rah cheerleading for "evil" Sony.
    > It's wondering just how darn long we're going to have to suffer for
    > buying an innately defective product, when all the machinery is readily
    > available to NOT make it defective.
    >
    > Derek Janssen (CES'08 Countdown: 9 days...At this point, we'll even
    > take a VC-1 Casablanca, if it's one more step toward Unconditional
    > Warner Surrender)
    >


    You want BD to win, I personally don't care which one does, and I'm not
    overly in a rush to see one or the other win.

    Until BD gets a profile 1.1 player out there at a sub-$200 pricepoint,
    BD doesn't win, the war goes on. And since the BD mfgs can barely get
    ANY profile 1.1's out there at any price, that doesn't look it will
    happen anytime soon.

    And that is the nub of it. It isn't the technology, the capacity of the
    disc nor any of the other crapola that all of us early-adopters think
    are so important, it is the PRICE!
     
    Lloyd Parsons, Dec 31, 2007
    #35
  16. Lloyd Parsons wrote:

    >>Unless companies want to spend money creating two separately different
    >>industries--which Warner, for one, DOESN'T--any industry with two
    >>different formats is forced to sell to the Lowest Common Denominator.
    >>And as long as HD-DVD exists, *that* just happens to be Lowest.
    >>And that seems to be the problem with all the Dual-format studios right
    >>now...Oops, wait. There's aren't "all the dual studios" anymore, are
    >>there? Just Warner.
    >>
    >>Trust us: When we say we want to wipe HD off the face of the earth,
    >>it's not brand loyalty or rah-rah cheerleading for "evil" Sony.
    >>It's wondering just how darn long we're going to have to suffer for
    >>buying an innately defective product, when all the machinery is readily
    >>available to NOT make it defective.
    >>
    >>(CES'08 Countdown: 9 days...At this point, we'll even
    >>take a VC-1 Casablanca, if it's one more step toward Unconditional
    >>Warner Surrender)


    > You want BD to win, I personally don't care which one does, and I'm not
    > overly in a rush to see one or the other win.
    >
    > Until BD gets a profile 1.1 player out there at a sub-$200 pricepoint,
    > BD doesn't win, the war goes on. And since the BD mfgs can barely get
    > ANY profile 1.1's out there at any price, that doesn't look it will
    > happen anytime soon.


    (Um...Is this old chestnut even still *working* after the PS3 2.10 upgrade?
    "Uh, yeah, but they're too expensive!"--Whatever, Ebenezer.
    But if I read correctly, you asked for, quote, "ANY" 1.1 players "at any
    price", and as of December, we've officially got 'em. Live to
    serve...Next old trenches-standby to shoot down?)

    Derek Janssen (just feel free, any of those ol' '06 memory-lane
    favorites--Aw, c'mon, how about one old "Evil Sony overlords" one, just
    for nostalgia?)
     
    Derek Janssen, Dec 31, 2007
    #36
  17. In article <cqYdj.6030$tK5.3181@trndny03>,
    Derek Janssen <> wrote:

    > Lloyd Parsons wrote:
    >
    > >>Unless companies want to spend money creating two separately different
    > >>industries--which Warner, for one, DOESN'T--any industry with two
    > >>different formats is forced to sell to the Lowest Common Denominator.
    > >>And as long as HD-DVD exists, *that* just happens to be Lowest.
    > >>And that seems to be the problem with all the Dual-format studios right
    > >>now...Oops, wait. There's aren't "all the dual studios" anymore, are
    > >>there? Just Warner.
    > >>
    > >>Trust us: When we say we want to wipe HD off the face of the earth,
    > >>it's not brand loyalty or rah-rah cheerleading for "evil" Sony.
    > >>It's wondering just how darn long we're going to have to suffer for
    > >>buying an innately defective product, when all the machinery is readily
    > >>available to NOT make it defective.
    > >>
    > >>(CES'08 Countdown: 9 days...At this point, we'll even
    > >>take a VC-1 Casablanca, if it's one more step toward Unconditional
    > >>Warner Surrender)

    >
    > > You want BD to win, I personally don't care which one does, and I'm not
    > > overly in a rush to see one or the other win.
    > >
    > > Until BD gets a profile 1.1 player out there at a sub-$200 pricepoint,
    > > BD doesn't win, the war goes on. And since the BD mfgs can barely get
    > > ANY profile 1.1's out there at any price, that doesn't look it will
    > > happen anytime soon.

    >
    > (Um...Is this old chestnut even still *working* after the PS3 2.10 upgrade?
    > "Uh, yeah, but they're too expensive!"--Whatever, Ebenezer.
    > But if I read correctly, you asked for, quote, "ANY" 1.1 players "at any
    > price", and as of December, we've officially got 'em. Live to
    > serve...Next old trenches-standby to shoot down?)
    >
    > Derek Janssen (just feel free, any of those ol' '06 memory-lane
    > favorites--Aw, c'mon, how about one old "Evil Sony overlords" one, just
    > for nostalgia?)
    >


    Read what I said again.

    They've got what 1 profile 1.1 standalone and the PS3 or is it 2
    standalones that are 1.1.

    Regardless, most of the mfgs rushed 2nd gen boxes to market just short
    of the do or die date when 1.1 had to be in them. Since then almost no
    new boxes.

    But let's assume they finally get off their collective asses and produce
    at least one model from each mfg that is 1.1 - when will just one of
    them be sub-$200? I don't think I can see that far down the road from
    where I sit.
     
    Lloyd Parsons, Dec 31, 2007
    #37
  18. Luke Duke

    JR Guest

    "L Alpert" <> wrote in message
    news:j5Odj.184$...
    > Big Daddy wrote:
    >> "Leroy" <> wrote in message
    >> news:Xkwdj.37761$DP1.5659@pd7urf2no...
    >>> He's right.

    >>
    >> no, he's not.
    >>
    >>> The data is very close to the top of the disk so they HAD to put an
    >>> extra coating on it.

    >>
    >> Has nothing to do with "rotting". The disks are not "prone" to
    >> rotting.

    >
    > Rotting? Polycarbonate "rotting"? Never heard of this. There can be
    > damage due to UV exposure, though if this is a problem for a specific
    > device, there can be UV inhibitors used in the base polymer.
    >
    > The disc itself should outlive the useful life of the technology.


    Thats what they said about DVD and CD's and they are rotting all over the
    place now.

    Bitrot is another name for it. more common on burned Cd's DVD's but still
    were not getting the "lifetime" of safe starage like they claimed. more like
    6-15 years.
     
    JR, Dec 31, 2007
    #38
  19. Luke Duke

    JR Guest

    "T.B." <> wrote in message
    news:4777dc1f$1$10992$...
    > "POD {Ò¿Ó}" wrote:
    >
    > (snip)
    >
    >> HD DVD fans are like Mac users, they feel so insecure about their wrong
    >> purchasing choice that they need to take swipes at the opposing
    >> technology.

    >
    > Too funny.
    >
    > T.B.


    Beta Ray fans are the same. All fangirls are the same no matter what they
    like.
    Remeber everyone claming Apple was going to go broke for..years..now they
    are massive and growing with stocks worth $200 a share. Pretty good for a
    company that was declared dead a million times :) I guess Apple/Steve Jobs
    owning Pixar helps a bit as well, and that ipod and imac stuff :)
     
    JR, Dec 31, 2007
    #39
  20. Luke Duke

    L Alpert Guest

    JR wrote:
    > "L Alpert" <> wrote in message
    > news:j5Odj.184$...
    >> Big Daddy wrote:
    >>> "Leroy" <> wrote in message
    >>> news:Xkwdj.37761$DP1.5659@pd7urf2no...
    >>>> He's right.
    >>>
    >>> no, he's not.
    >>>
    >>>> The data is very close to the top of the disk so they HAD to put an
    >>>> extra coating on it.
    >>>
    >>> Has nothing to do with "rotting". The disks are not "prone" to
    >>> rotting.

    >>
    >> Rotting? Polycarbonate "rotting"? Never heard of this. There can
    >> be damage due to UV exposure, though if this is a problem for a
    >> specific device, there can be UV inhibitors used in the base polymer.
    >>
    >> The disc itself should outlive the useful life of the technology.

    >
    > Thats what they said about DVD and CD's and they are rotting all over
    > the place now.
    >
    > Bitrot is another name for it. more common on burned Cd's DVD's but
    > still were not getting the "lifetime" of safe starage like they
    > claimed. more like 6-15 years.


    "Bit-rot", is not the same as "rot". The former implies usefulness of the
    device that cannot be known until the device is placed in service, the
    latter implies a physical condition that can be visualized.

    I cannot say that I have seen this phenomenon of bit-rot myself, and I have
    discs that are quite old that I still use, a few of them >15 years (I even
    have some 5 1/4" floppies that work), though I wouldn't discount the
    phenomenon.

    2nd tier low cost vendors are very cost conscious, and may use other 2nd or
    3rd tier vendors for the raw polymers to manufacture the media, as the resin
    is the highest manufacturing cost. A few cents per pound can mean a much
    higher gross margin when using millions of pounds, and could be a
    contributing factor (I see this in other segments of the polymer industry
    all the time).
     
    L Alpert, Dec 31, 2007
    #40
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