HC SD card queries

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Terry Pinnell, May 17, 2008.

  1. I have a 4 GB 'SDHC' SD card which I bought impulsively (cheap, high
    capacity) some months ago. I could not get it to work in the Belkin
    Card Reader on my old XP SP1 PC, which I assumed was because that PC
    didn't have USB 2.0. So I bought a little USB adapter and that allowed
    me to read and write to it, albeit very slowly.

    I've finally upgraded my PC (to a MESH Xtreme GTS, Quad Core, 2.66
    GHz) and expected to have no issues with reading this SD card with its
    built-in multi-card reader. But to my surprise that doesn't work
    either. Get either nothing (just hangs) or a message about I/O error.
    So I still have to go via the USB adapter. And even that still seems
    excruciatingly slow.

    I have only the one HC card and so cannot make any comparative tests.
    Is this a common problem please?

    --
    Terry, East Grinstead, UK
    Terry Pinnell, May 17, 2008
    #1
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  2. Terry Pinnell

    Matt Ion Guest

    Terry Pinnell wrote:
    > I have a 4 GB 'SDHC' SD card which I bought impulsively (cheap, high
    > capacity) some months ago. I could not get it to work in the Belkin
    > Card Reader on my old XP SP1 PC, which I assumed was because that PC
    > didn't have USB 2.0. So I bought a little USB adapter and that allowed
    > me to read and write to it, albeit very slowly.
    >
    > I've finally upgraded my PC (to a MESH Xtreme GTS, Quad Core, 2.66
    > GHz) and expected to have no issues with reading this SD card with its
    > built-in multi-card reader. But to my surprise that doesn't work
    > either. Get either nothing (just hangs) or a message about I/O error.
    > So I still have to go via the USB adapter. And even that still seems
    > excruciatingly slow.
    >
    > I have only the one HC card and so cannot make any comparative tests.
    > Is this a common problem please?


    Does your new machine's built-in reader specifically state that it
    supports SDHC? This is by far the most common problem with SDHC cards,
    as not all new readers (or cameras) actually support the HC spec.

    As for why the other one is slow, does it specify that it's USB 2.0 or
    "HiSpeed"?
    Matt Ion, May 17, 2008
    #2
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  3. Terry Pinnell <> wrote:
    >I have a 4 GB 'SDHC' SD card which I bought impulsively (cheap, high
    >capacity) some months ago. I could not get it to work in the Belkin
    >Card Reader on my old XP SP1 PC, which I assumed was because that PC
    >didn't have USB 2.0.So I bought a little USB adapter and that allowed
    >me to read and write to it, albeit very slowly.


    That surprises me very much. USB2 is backward compatible with USB1, i.e.
    any USB2 device should(!) fully implement and use USB1 protocols the
    othner device does not support USB2.
    I would have suspected that the card reader was SD 1.x only and didn't
    support SDHC. That would have been a very well known backward
    compatibily issue SD.

    >I've finally upgraded my PC (to a MESH Xtreme GTS, Quad Core, 2.66
    >GHz)


    Well, those specs don't tell anything about the version of the buildin
    SD card reader.

    > and expected to have no issues with reading this SD card with its
    >built-in multi-card reader. But to my surprise that doesn't work
    >either. Get either nothing (just hangs) or a message about I/O error.


    Could be a million of different things.

    >So I still have to go via the USB adapter. And even that still seems
    >excruciatingly slow.


    If your USB adapter or the card reader connected to it supports USB1
    only, then it doesn't matter how fast or modern your computer is.

    >I have only the one HC card and so cannot make any comparative tests.
    >Is this a common problem please?


    Depends which problem you are talking about:
    - backward compatibility issues between SD1.x and SDHC: yes, by poor
    design
    - slow transfer over USB1: yes, by design
    - backward compatibilty issues between USB1 and USB2: no
    - card readers in a new computer not compatible with SDHC: no

    jue
    Jürgen Exner, May 17, 2008
    #3
  4. Jürgen Exner <> wrote:

    >Terry Pinnell <> wrote:
    >>I have a 4 GB 'SDHC' SD card which I bought impulsively (cheap, high
    >>capacity) some months ago. I could not get it to work in the Belkin
    >>Card Reader on my old XP SP1 PC, which I assumed was because that PC
    >>didn't have USB 2.0.So I bought a little USB adapter and that allowed
    >>me to read and write to it, albeit very slowly.

    >
    >That surprises me very much. USB2 is backward compatible with USB1, i.e.
    >any USB2 device should(!) fully implement and use USB1 protocols the
    >othner device does not support USB2.


    Not sure I follow you. The old PC was limited to USB 1.0. The adapter
    was capable of USB 2.0 but obviously couldn't use it. So it was slow.
    The (old) Belkin Reader, which had been reading SD and CF cards for
    years (albeit at USB 1.0 speeds) wouldn't read the SDHC.

    >I would have suspected that the card reader was SD 1.x only and didn't
    >support SDHC. That would have been a very well known backward
    >compatibily issue SD.


    That sounds right.

    >>I've finally upgraded my PC (to a MESH Xtreme GTS, Quad Core, 2.66
    >>GHz)

    >
    >Well, those specs don't tell anything about the version of the buildin
    >SD card reader.


    Unfortunately I don't know the spec of the reader. The MESH
    description is "Multi-format card reader". My point was simply that
    this was a high end PC. I assumed all its components would be up there
    with the current best.

    >> and expected to have no issues with reading this SD card with its
    >>built-in multi-card reader. But to my surprise that doesn't work
    >>either. Get either nothing (just hangs) or a message about I/O error.

    >
    >Could be a million of different things.
    >
    >>So I still have to go via the USB adapter. And even that still seems
    >>excruciatingly slow.

    >
    >If your USB adapter or the card reader connected to it supports USB1
    >only, then it doesn't matter how fast or modern your computer is.


    The USB adapter is a USB 2.0 type.

    >>I have only the one HC card and so cannot make any comparative tests.
    >>Is this a common problem please?

    >
    >Depends which problem you are talking about:
    >- backward compatibility issues between SD1.x and SDHC: yes, by poor
    >design


    The problem I described! Namely the inability of my modern, high-speed
    PC's SD reader to read an SDHC card. From Matt's reply, looks like it
    is indeed a common problem. Surprises me nevertheless, that a modern
    reader (PC built 2 months ago) should not support this type.

    >- slow transfer over USB1: yes, by design


    See above; not the issue here.

    >- backward compatibilty issues between USB1 and USB2: no
    >- card readers in a new computer not compatible with SDHC: no


    See above; not the issue here.

    >jue
    Terry Pinnell, May 17, 2008
    #4
  5. Matt Ion <> wrote:

    >Terry Pinnell wrote:
    >> I have a 4 GB 'SDHC' SD card which I bought impulsively (cheap, high
    >> capacity) some months ago. I could not get it to work in the Belkin
    >> Card Reader on my old XP SP1 PC, which I assumed was because that PC
    >> didn't have USB 2.0. So I bought a little USB adapter and that allowed
    >> me to read and write to it, albeit very slowly.
    >>
    >> I've finally upgraded my PC (to a MESH Xtreme GTS, Quad Core, 2.66
    >> GHz) and expected to have no issues with reading this SD card with its
    >> built-in multi-card reader. But to my surprise that doesn't work
    >> either. Get either nothing (just hangs) or a message about I/O error.
    >> So I still have to go via the USB adapter. And even that still seems
    >> excruciatingly slow.
    >>
    >> I have only the one HC card and so cannot make any comparative tests.
    >> Is this a common problem please?

    >
    >Does your new machine's built-in reader specifically state that it
    >supports SDHC? This is by far the most common problem with SDHC cards,
    >as not all new readers (or cameras) actually support the HC spec.
    >
    >As for why the other one is slow, does it specify that it's USB 2.0 or
    >"HiSpeed"?


    Thanks. See also my reply to Juergen. No details of reader spec ;-( So
    I was hoping it might prove to be this particular (cheapish) brand.
    But your comments make that unlikely.

    The old USB 1.0 PC using the USB 2.0 adapter was obviously slow. But
    I'd expect that on the new USB 2.0 PC it would be faster. Unless the
    card itself is the determining factor, in which case the two PCs would
    give similar (very slow) performance. Which appears the case!

    --
    Terry, East Grinstead, UK
    Terry Pinnell, May 17, 2008
    #5
  6. Terry Pinnell

    Matt Ion Guest

    Terry Pinnell wrote:
    > Matt Ion <> wrote:
    >
    >> Terry Pinnell wrote:
    >>> I have a 4 GB 'SDHC' SD card which I bought impulsively (cheap, high
    >>> capacity) some months ago. I could not get it to work in the Belkin
    >>> Card Reader on my old XP SP1 PC, which I assumed was because that PC
    >>> didn't have USB 2.0. So I bought a little USB adapter and that allowed
    >>> me to read and write to it, albeit very slowly.
    >>>
    >>> I've finally upgraded my PC (to a MESH Xtreme GTS, Quad Core, 2.66
    >>> GHz) and expected to have no issues with reading this SD card with its
    >>> built-in multi-card reader. But to my surprise that doesn't work
    >>> either. Get either nothing (just hangs) or a message about I/O error.
    >>> So I still have to go via the USB adapter. And even that still seems
    >>> excruciatingly slow.
    >>>
    >>> I have only the one HC card and so cannot make any comparative tests.
    >>> Is this a common problem please?

    >> Does your new machine's built-in reader specifically state that it
    >> supports SDHC? This is by far the most common problem with SDHC cards,
    >> as not all new readers (or cameras) actually support the HC spec.
    >>
    >> As for why the other one is slow, does it specify that it's USB 2.0 or
    >> "HiSpeed"?

    >
    > Thanks. See also my reply to Juergen. No details of reader spec ;-( So
    > I was hoping it might prove to be this particular (cheapish) brand.
    > But your comments make that unlikely.


    I'd check with the PC manufacturer for the specs on that reader, as I've
    seen several very cheap ones used in brand-new systems that DON'T do
    SDHC - it's always possible the readers themselves aren't all that new,
    if they're some no-name units that the PC builder has had sitting around
    for a long time. Aside from the recent advent of SDHC, there really
    haven't been that many changes in flash memory formats in the last
    half-dozen years (I think Sony's added the Duo version of their
    MemoryStick, but base SD, MMC, and CF have remained the same), so there
    hasn't been a lot of call for the builders to toss out their existing
    stock of readers.

    > The old USB 1.0 PC using the USB 2.0 adapter was obviously slow. But
    > I'd expect that on the new USB 2.0 PC it would be faster. Unless the
    > card itself is the determining factor, in which case the two PCs would
    > give similar (very slow) performance. Which appears the case!


    I would doubt it. Only older low-capacity SD cards would be likely to
    be that slow - anything new enough to be SDHC would also necessarily
    have a pretty good transfer rate. I'd say there are two other
    probabilities: the reader itself is just slow, despite being USB 2.0
    spec; or your computer's USB ports are for some reason set to only do
    USB 1.1 speeds, which IS actually an option in most machines' BIOSes.
    Have you tried data transfer with anything else (thumb drive, external
    HDD) to confirm the ports are performing at their full potential?
    Matt Ion, May 17, 2008
    #6
  7. In article <>,
    Terry Pinnell <> wrote:

    > I have a 4 GB 'SDHC' SD card which I bought impulsively (cheap, high
    > capacity) some months ago. I could not get it to work in the Belkin
    > Card Reader


    The only card reader I've found that would read my SDHC card, was made
    by SanDisk. It is their "ImageMate 12 in 1", model SDDR-89

    It is a USB card reader with capability of reading cards in several
    formats. I bought mine in Walmart for around $27.

    The only camera I have that can use the SDHC card, is a Pentax *ist DS
    with the latest firmware upgrade. These cards have been available for a
    couple of years, but they don't seem to have caught on enough for the
    card reader manufacturers to support them.

    Fred
    Fred McKenzie, May 17, 2008
    #7
  8. Terry Pinnell

    Matt Ion Guest

    Fred McKenzie wrote:
    > In article <>,
    > Terry Pinnell <> wrote:
    >
    >> I have a 4 GB 'SDHC' SD card which I bought impulsively (cheap, high
    >> capacity) some months ago. I could not get it to work in the Belkin
    >> Card Reader

    >
    > The only card reader I've found that would read my SDHC card, was made
    > by SanDisk. It is their "ImageMate 12 in 1", model SDDR-89
    >
    > It is a USB card reader with capability of reading cards in several
    > formats. I bought mine in Walmart for around $27.
    >
    > The only camera I have that can use the SDHC card, is a Pentax *ist DS
    > with the latest firmware upgrade. These cards have been available for a
    > couple of years, but they don't seem to have caught on enough for the
    > card reader manufacturers to support them.


    I think the problem there (as I indicated in my last reply to Terry) is
    that there are still a lot of non-HC-compliant readers in the retail
    channels, and you have to specifically look for that spec when you
    purchase one; it's not to the point yet that you can simply assume
    anything with an SD slot will support SDHC. This is probably as much
    the case with the computer builders as well, who likely have large
    stocks of existing non-HC internal readers they still want to use up.

    My regular supplier still carries a $12 "all-in-one" internal reader
    that DOESN'T do HC, as well as a $20 one that does. In fact, probably
    half of their SD-capable readers don't list HC support... but a good
    half of them DO. They have a Kingston model
    (http://a-power.com/product-4780-370-1), and I know they have some
    others in-store that do, although they're not listed on the website.
    Matt Ion, May 17, 2008
    #8
  9. Fred McKenzie wrote:

    > In article <>,
    > Terry Pinnell <> wrote:
    >
    >> I have a 4 GB 'SDHC' SD card which I bought impulsively (cheap, high
    >> capacity) some months ago. I could not get it to work in the Belkin
    >> Card Reader

    >
    > The only card reader I've found that would read my SDHC card, was made
    > by SanDisk. It is their "ImageMate 12 in 1", model SDDR-89
    >
    > It is a USB card reader with capability of reading cards in several
    > formats. I bought mine in Walmart for around $27.


    As an option, albeit not that quite that cheap, I'm using a Sony MRW62E
    reader for SDHC.

    > The only camera I have that can use the SDHC card, is a Pentax *ist DS
    > with the latest firmware upgrade. These cards have been available for a
    > couple of years, but they don't seem to have caught on enough for the
    > card reader manufacturers to support them.


    I read the claims on at least 15 different readers - at up to $50 each -
    that were on the shelf about three weeks ago; I only found one that
    actually specified SDHC compatability. (The one I mention above)


    --
    Blinky
    Killing all posts from Google Groups
    The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org
    NEW --> Now evaluating a GG-free news feed: http://usenet4all.se
    Blinky the Shark, May 17, 2008
    #9
  10. Terry Pinnell

    iws Guest

    "Terry Pinnell" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Jürgen Exner <> wrote:
    >
    >>Terry Pinnell <> wrote:
    >>>I have a 4 GB 'SDHC' SD card which I bought impulsively (cheap, high
    >>>capacity) some months ago. I could not get it to work in the Belkin
    >>>Card Reader on my old XP SP1 PC, which I assumed was because that PC
    >>>didn't have USB 2.0.So I bought a little USB adapter and that allowed
    >>>me to read and write to it, albeit very slowly.

    >>
    >>That surprises me very much. USB2 is backward compatible with USB1, i.e.
    >>any USB2 device should(!) fully implement and use USB1 protocols the
    >>othner device does not support USB2.

    >
    > Not sure I follow you. The old PC was limited to USB 1.0. The adapter
    > was capable of USB 2.0 but obviously couldn't use it. So it was slow.
    > The (old) Belkin Reader, which had been reading SD and CF cards for
    > years (albeit at USB 1.0 speeds) wouldn't read the SDHC.
    >
    >>I would have suspected that the card reader was SD 1.x only and didn't
    >>support SDHC. That would have been a very well known backward
    >>compatibily issue SD.

    >
    > That sounds right.
    >
    >>>I've finally upgraded my PC (to a MESH Xtreme GTS, Quad Core, 2.66
    >>>GHz)

    >>
    >>Well, those specs don't tell anything about the version of the buildin
    >>SD card reader.

    >
    > Unfortunately I don't know the spec of the reader. The MESH
    > description is "Multi-format card reader". My point was simply that
    > this was a high end PC. I assumed all its components would be up there
    > with the current best.
    >

    If you can determine the manufacturer of the builtin card reader, there may
    be an update for it to enable it to read SDHC cards. That's what I did with
    a laptop I bought last year.
    iws, May 17, 2008
    #10
  11. Blinky the Shark <> wrote:

    >Fred McKenzie wrote:
    >
    >> In article <>,
    >> Terry Pinnell <> wrote:
    >>
    >>> I have a 4 GB 'SDHC' SD card which I bought impulsively (cheap, high
    >>> capacity) some months ago. I could not get it to work in the Belkin
    >>> Card Reader

    >>
    >> The only card reader I've found that would read my SDHC card, was made
    >> by SanDisk. It is their "ImageMate 12 in 1", model SDDR-89
    >>
    >> It is a USB card reader with capability of reading cards in several
    >> formats. I bought mine in Walmart for around $27.

    >
    >As an option, albeit not that quite that cheap, I'm using a Sony MRW62E
    >reader for SDHC.
    >
    >> The only camera I have that can use the SDHC card, is a Pentax *ist DS
    >> with the latest firmware upgrade. These cards have been available for a
    >> couple of years, but they don't seem to have caught on enough for the
    >> card reader manufacturers to support them.

    >
    >I read the claims on at least 15 different readers - at up to $50 each -
    >that were on the shelf about three weeks ago; I only found one that
    >actually specified SDHC compatability. (The one I mention above)


    Thanks for all those further replies, very helpful. I reckon I was
    making an unjustified assumption about the support for SDHC.

    Probably have to buy another reader.

    --
    Terry, East Grinstead, UK
    Terry Pinnell, May 17, 2008
    #11
  12. "iws" <> wrote:

    >"Terry Pinnell" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> Jürgen Exner <> wrote:
    >>
    >>>Terry Pinnell <> wrote:
    >>>>I have a 4 GB 'SDHC' SD card which I bought impulsively (cheap, high
    >>>>capacity) some months ago. I could not get it to work in the Belkin
    >>>>Card Reader on my old XP SP1 PC, which I assumed was because that PC
    >>>>didn't have USB 2.0.So I bought a little USB adapter and that allowed
    >>>>me to read and write to it, albeit very slowly.
    >>>
    >>>That surprises me very much. USB2 is backward compatible with USB1, i.e.
    >>>any USB2 device should(!) fully implement and use USB1 protocols the
    >>>othner device does not support USB2.

    >>
    >> Not sure I follow you. The old PC was limited to USB 1.0. The adapter
    >> was capable of USB 2.0 but obviously couldn't use it. So it was slow.
    >> The (old) Belkin Reader, which had been reading SD and CF cards for
    >> years (albeit at USB 1.0 speeds) wouldn't read the SDHC.
    >>
    >>>I would have suspected that the card reader was SD 1.x only and didn't
    >>>support SDHC. That would have been a very well known backward
    >>>compatibily issue SD.

    >>
    >> That sounds right.
    >>
    >>>>I've finally upgraded my PC (to a MESH Xtreme GTS, Quad Core, 2.66
    >>>>GHz)
    >>>
    >>>Well, those specs don't tell anything about the version of the buildin
    >>>SD card reader.

    >>
    >> Unfortunately I don't know the spec of the reader. The MESH
    >> description is "Multi-format card reader". My point was simply that
    >> this was a high end PC. I assumed all its components would be up there
    >> with the current best.
    >>

    >If you can determine the manufacturer of the builtin card reader, there may
    >be an update for it to enable it to read SDHC cards. That's what I did with
    >a laptop I bought last year.
    >


    Thanks, good idea. I've emailed MESH, as I can never reach them by
    'phone, but from previous experience I'm not hopeful of a reply.

    FWIW, it's just described in the sales spec as a 'multi-format
    reader'. Here's a photo:
    http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/8179/meshxtremegtsreadersjq7.jpg

    Anyway, probably looks like I'll have to

    a) Continue using the adapter (which is just that little bit too large
    to fit alongside another socket in use!)

    b) Reconcile myself to slowness; at least, until I can get hold of
    another faster SDHC card.


    --
    Terry, East Grinstead, UK
    Terry Pinnell, May 18, 2008
    #12
  13. Terry Pinnell wrote:

    > "iws" <> wrote:
    >
    >>"Terry Pinnell" <> wrote in message
    >>news:...
    >>> Jürgen Exner <> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>Terry Pinnell <> wrote:
    >>>>>I have a 4 GB 'SDHC' SD card which I bought impulsively (cheap, high
    >>>>>capacity) some months ago. I could not get it to work in the Belkin
    >>>>>Card Reader on my old XP SP1 PC, which I assumed was because that PC
    >>>>>didn't have USB 2.0.So I bought a little USB adapter and that allowed
    >>>>>me to read and write to it, albeit very slowly.
    >>>>
    >>>>That surprises me very much. USB2 is backward compatible with USB1, i.e.
    >>>>any USB2 device should(!) fully implement and use USB1 protocols the
    >>>>othner device does not support USB2.
    >>>
    >>> Not sure I follow you. The old PC was limited to USB 1.0. The adapter
    >>> was capable of USB 2.0 but obviously couldn't use it. So it was slow.
    >>> The (old) Belkin Reader, which had been reading SD and CF cards for
    >>> years (albeit at USB 1.0 speeds) wouldn't read the SDHC.
    >>>
    >>>>I would have suspected that the card reader was SD 1.x only and didn't
    >>>>support SDHC. That would have been a very well known backward
    >>>>compatibily issue SD.
    >>>
    >>> That sounds right.
    >>>
    >>>>>I've finally upgraded my PC (to a MESH Xtreme GTS, Quad Core, 2.66
    >>>>>GHz)
    >>>>
    >>>>Well, those specs don't tell anything about the version of the buildin
    >>>>SD card reader.
    >>>
    >>> Unfortunately I don't know the spec of the reader. The MESH
    >>> description is "Multi-format card reader". My point was simply that
    >>> this was a high end PC. I assumed all its components would be up there
    >>> with the current best.
    >>>

    >>If you can determine the manufacturer of the builtin card reader, there may
    >>be an update for it to enable it to read SDHC cards. That's what I did with
    >>a laptop I bought last year.
    >>

    >
    > Thanks, good idea. I've emailed MESH, as I can never reach them by
    > 'phone, but from previous experience I'm not hopeful of a reply.
    >
    > FWIW, it's just described in the sales spec as a 'multi-format
    > reader'. Here's a photo:
    > http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/8179/meshxtremegtsreadersjq7.jpg
    >
    > Anyway, probably looks like I'll have to
    >
    > a) Continue using the adapter (which is just that little bit too large
    > to fit alongside another socket in use!)
    >
    > b) Reconcile myself to slowness; at least, until I can get hold of
    > another faster SDHC card.


    What class/speed is the card in question? I've seen you discuss the two
    USB flavors and the HC capability of your reader; I don't /remember/ you
    mentioning the speed of the card.


    --
    Blinky
    Killing all posts from Google Groups
    The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org
    NEW --> Now evaluating a GG-free news feed: http://usenet4all.se
    Blinky the Shark, May 18, 2008
    #13
  14. Blinky the Shark <> wrote:

    >Terry Pinnell wrote:
    >
    >> "iws" <> wrote:
    >>
    >>>"Terry Pinnell" <> wrote in message
    >>>news:...
    >>>> Jürgen Exner <> wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>>Terry Pinnell <> wrote:
    >>>>>>I have a 4 GB 'SDHC' SD card which I bought impulsively (cheap, high
    >>>>>>capacity) some months ago. I could not get it to work in the Belkin
    >>>>>>Card Reader on my old XP SP1 PC, which I assumed was because that PC
    >>>>>>didn't have USB 2.0.So I bought a little USB adapter and that allowed
    >>>>>>me to read and write to it, albeit very slowly.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>That surprises me very much. USB2 is backward compatible with USB1, i.e.
    >>>>>any USB2 device should(!) fully implement and use USB1 protocols the
    >>>>>othner device does not support USB2.
    >>>>
    >>>> Not sure I follow you. The old PC was limited to USB 1.0. The adapter
    >>>> was capable of USB 2.0 but obviously couldn't use it. So it was slow.
    >>>> The (old) Belkin Reader, which had been reading SD and CF cards for
    >>>> years (albeit at USB 1.0 speeds) wouldn't read the SDHC.
    >>>>
    >>>>>I would have suspected that the card reader was SD 1.x only and didn't
    >>>>>support SDHC. That would have been a very well known backward
    >>>>>compatibily issue SD.
    >>>>
    >>>> That sounds right.
    >>>>
    >>>>>>I've finally upgraded my PC (to a MESH Xtreme GTS, Quad Core, 2.66
    >>>>>>GHz)
    >>>>>
    >>>>>Well, those specs don't tell anything about the version of the buildin
    >>>>>SD card reader.
    >>>>
    >>>> Unfortunately I don't know the spec of the reader. The MESH
    >>>> description is "Multi-format card reader". My point was simply that
    >>>> this was a high end PC. I assumed all its components would be up there
    >>>> with the current best.
    >>>>
    >>>If you can determine the manufacturer of the builtin card reader, there may
    >>>be an update for it to enable it to read SDHC cards. That's what I did with
    >>>a laptop I bought last year.
    >>>

    >>
    >> Thanks, good idea. I've emailed MESH, as I can never reach them by
    >> 'phone, but from previous experience I'm not hopeful of a reply.
    >>
    >> FWIW, it's just described in the sales spec as a 'multi-format
    >> reader'. Here's a photo:
    >> http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/8179/meshxtremegtsreadersjq7.jpg
    >>
    >> Anyway, probably looks like I'll have to
    >>
    >> a) Continue using the adapter (which is just that little bit too large
    >> to fit alongside another socket in use!)
    >>
    >> b) Reconcile myself to slowness; at least, until I can get hold of
    >> another faster SDHC card.

    >
    >What class/speed is the card in question? I've seen you discuss the two
    >USB flavors and the HC capability of your reader; I don't /remember/ you
    >mentioning the speed of the card.


    Unfortunately no data on the SDHC card. That usually means it's slow.

    Anyway, it now looks as if the multi-format reader itself is faulty.
    This morning I can't get either the CF reader or SD reader to read
    standard cards ;-(

    So it seems I'll have the hassle of getting through to MESH Support
    tomorrow.

    --
    Terry, East Grinstead, UK
    Terry Pinnell, May 18, 2008
    #14
  15. Terry Pinnell

    Matt Ion Guest

    Terry Pinnell wrote:

    > FWIW, it's just described in the sales spec as a 'multi-format
    > reader'. Here's a photo:
    > http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/8179/meshxtremegtsreadersjq7.jpg



    It LOOKS really cheap... in fact, looks very similar to the $12 AP one I
    linked to earlier. And again, the fact that it doesn't specifically say
    SDHC on the SD/MMC slot means it probably doesn't support it, even if it
    is working.
    Matt Ion, May 18, 2008
    #15
  16. Terry Pinnell

    Matt Ion Guest

    Terry Pinnell wrote:

    >> What class/speed is the card in question? I've seen you discuss the two
    >> USB flavors and the HC capability of your reader; I don't /remember/ you
    >> mentioning the speed of the card.

    >
    > Unfortunately no data on the SDHC card. That usually means it's slow.



    Possible, but as I said before, SDHC itself is new enough that I don't
    think any manufacturers using the spec would even bother making a slower
    card (at a guess, I'd think the HC spec would include a speed /minimum/
    as well; a 4GB card any less than 60X read speed would be ridiculous).

    Does the card not have a brand/model on it?
    Matt Ion, May 18, 2008
    #16
  17. Terry Pinnell

    Matt Ion Guest

    Alfred Molon wrote:
    > SD cards suffer from the same problem that has affected Smartmedia cards
    > and Memory Sticks: at one point the specification was changed, so that
    > older devices are no longer compatible with the new versions of these
    > memory cards.


    Yeah, we've already pretty much determined that his card reader doesn't
    support SDHC.
    Matt Ion, May 18, 2008
    #17
  18. Terry Pinnell <> wrote:
    >Jürgen Exner <> wrote:
    >>Terry Pinnell <> wrote:
    >>>I have a 4 GB 'SDHC' SD card which I bought impulsively (cheap, high
    >>>capacity) some months ago. I could not get it to work in the Belkin
    >>>Card Reader on my old XP SP1 PC, which I assumed was because that PC
    >>>didn't have USB 2.0.So I bought a little USB adapter and that allowed
    >>>me to read and write to it, albeit very slowly.

    >>
    >>That surprises me very much. USB2 is backward compatible with USB1, i.e.
    >>any USB2 device should(!) fully implement and use USB1 protocols the
    >>othner device does not support USB2.

    >
    >Not sure I follow you. The old PC was limited to USB 1.0. The adapter
    >was capable of USB 2.0


    You forgot to mention this little detail. But it doesn't matter. What I
    was saying is that you can use USB1 devices on USB2 hubs and vice-versa.
    The only difference should be the speed if to both ends are USB2.
    Exception: some devices require USB2 speed because of the required data
    throughput, e.g. web cams.

    >Unfortunately I don't know the spec of the reader. The MESH
    >description is "Multi-format card reader". My point was simply that
    >this was a high end PC. I assumed all its components would be up there
    >with the current best.


    Well, that's something you will have to discuss with whoever assembled
    that computer.

    >>If your USB adapter or the card reader connected to it supports USB1
    >>only, then it doesn't matter how fast or modern your computer is.

    >
    >The USB adapter is a USB 2.0 type.


    Then in all likelyhood the card reader that is connected to it is only
    USB1.

    >The problem I described! Namely the inability of my modern, high-speed
    >PC's SD reader to read an SDHC card. From Matt's reply, looks like it
    >is indeed a common problem. Surprises me nevertheless, that a modern
    >reader (PC built 2 months ago) should not support this type.


    SDHC was standardized not even 2 years ago. First cameras with SDHC
    support appeared a bit over 1 year ago. I am not surprised at all that
    there are still SD1.x card readers out there and are being sold to
    people who have no clue about the mess called SD.

    jue
    Jürgen Exner, May 18, 2008
    #18
  19. Terry Pinnell <> wrote:
    >a) Continue using the adapter (which is just that little bit too large
    >to fit alongside another socket in use!)


    Sorry, I may be on a totally wrong track here, but what kind of adapter
    are you talking about? Adapting from what to what? Somehow your choice
    of words makes me think that maybe you are not talking about a USB
    controller PCI card but something else.

    >b) Reconcile myself to slowness; at least, until I can get hold of
    >another faster SDHC card.


    I _very_ strongly_ doubt that the speed of the flash card is the
    limiting factor.

    jue
    Jürgen Exner, May 18, 2008
    #19
  20. Terry Pinnell

    Bob Williams Guest

    Terry Pinnell wrote:
    > I have a 4 GB 'SDHC' SD card which I bought impulsively (cheap, high
    > capacity) some months ago. I could not get it to work in the Belkin
    > Card Reader on my old XP SP1 PC, which I assumed was because that PC
    > didn't have USB 2.0. So I bought a little USB adapter and that allowed
    > me to read and write to it, albeit very slowly.
    >
    > I've finally upgraded my PC (to a MESH Xtreme GTS, Quad Core, 2.66
    > GHz) and expected to have no issues with reading this SD card with its
    > built-in multi-card reader. But to my surprise that doesn't work
    > either. Get either nothing (just hangs) or a message about I/O error.
    > So I still have to go via the USB adapter. And even that still seems
    > excruciatingly slow.
    >
    > I have only the one HC card and so cannot make any comparative tests.
    > Is this a common problem please?
    >

    There are several interrelated problems.
    1) The card reader must not only be USB 2 but it must be able to handle
    SDHC (High Capacity) cards.
    Even if it is USB 2, if it can't handle HC cards.....you get nothing.

    2) Even if the card reader is USB 2 and can read HC Cards, your computer
    still must have a USB 2 adapter. Otherwise you will get USB 1 performance.

    If you are getting SLOW performance, you most likely have a USB 1 device
    somewhere in the system.
    If you get NO images, your reader cannot handle HC cards.
    Bob Williams
    Bob Williams, May 19, 2008
    #20
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