Hardware switch one single-line phone <---> two lines

Discussion in 'VOIP' started by BlueRinse, Mar 29, 2005.

  1. BlueRinse

    BlueRinse Guest

    In order to make it easier to switch directly to POTS in case of a pbx
    failure, I need a hardware switch to connect one phone to two different
    sockets. Anyone have any experience with thiese?

    thx
    BlueRinse, Mar 29, 2005
    #1
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  2. BlueRinse

    Rick Merrill Guest

    BlueRinse wrote:
    > In order to make it easier to switch directly to POTS in case of a pbx
    > failure, I need a hardware switch to connect one phone to two different
    > sockets. Anyone have any experience with thiese?
    >
    > thx


    Can't you just move the plug from one socket to the other?
    Rick Merrill, Mar 29, 2005
    #2
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  3. BlueRinse

    Miguel Cruz Guest

    BlueRinse <> wrote:
    > In order to make it easier to switch directly to POTS in case of a pbx
    > failure, I need a hardware switch to connect one phone to two different
    > sockets. Anyone have any experience with thiese?


    If you buy a DPDT switch at Radio Shack and wire it yourself, it should cost
    $2 or so.

    miguel
    --
    Hit The Road! Photos from 35 countries on 5 continents: http://travel.u.nu
    Latest photos: Thailand, Indonesia, Malaysia, Israel, Palestine
    Miguel Cruz, Mar 29, 2005
    #3
  4. BlueRinse

    Roger Elmore Guest

    > > BlueRinse wrote:
    > > In order to make it easier to switch directly to
    > > POTS in case of a pbx failure, I need a hardware
    > > switch to connect one phone to two different
    > > sockets. Anyone have any experience with thiese?


    > Miguel Cruz wrote:
    > If you buy a DPDT switch at Radio Shack and wire it
    > yourself, it should cost $2 or so.


    RS's #43-433 is $18.49 if BlueRinse isn't that handy.

    http://tinyurl.com/3fool

    The TinyURL is auto-generated, I'm not implying anything.
    --
    Roger Elmore
    UTM Telecommunications
    Roger Elmore, Mar 29, 2005
    #4
  5. BlueRinse

    BlueRinse Guest

    On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 09:54:06 -0500, Rick Merrill wrote:

    > BlueRinse wrote:
    >> [quoted text muted]

    >
    > Can't you just move the plug from one socket to the other?


    Yes I can, but the person who is alone in the office may not be able to.
    BlueRinse, Mar 30, 2005
    #5
  6. BlueRinse

    BlueRinse Guest

    > RS's #43-433 is $18.49 if BlueRinse isn't that handy.
    >
    > http://tinyurl.com/3fool


    Perfect, thanks. It happens that I didn't look there because we don't have
    any RS in Europe, but now that I know they have these, I'll check into it
    next time I'm somewhere where there is a store.
    BlueRinse, Mar 30, 2005
    #6
  7. BlueRinse

    Roger Elmore Guest

    > > Roger Elmore wrote:
    > > RS's #43-433 is $18.49 if BlueRinse isn't that handy.


    > BlueRinse wrote:
    > Perfect, thanks. It happens that I didn't look there because we don't

    have
    > any RS in Europe, but now that I know they have these, I'll check

    into it
    > next time I'm somewhere where there is a store.


    Since you are wanting to switch between a PBX line and a POTS, I assume
    the PBX line is analog also. Why not just use a readily available
    2-line analog phone? If the PBX goes out, press line 2...

    Since you are making the switch accessable to the person using the
    phone, there's really no difference, and you save having a gadget
    taking up desk space.
    --
    Roger Elmore
    UTM Telecommunications
    Roger Elmore, Mar 30, 2005
    #7
  8. BlueRinse

    BlueRinse Guest

    Try to put yopurself in the position of the user, not the maintainer.

    > Since you are wanting to switch between a PBX line and a POTS, I assume
    > the PBX line is analog also. Why not just use a readily available
    > 2-line analog phone? If the PBX goes out, press line 2...


    Because no one is asking me to replace a phone they like. If they *had* a
    two-line phone, it would be able to use the two lines, since 99% of the
    time the pbx is up. (For the last year, 100% actually, except for a power
    failure.)

    > Since you are making the switch accessable to the person using the
    > phone, there's really no difference, and you save having a gadget taking
    > up desk space.


    Making it easier for a person to accomplish things is not necessarily
    facilitated by forcing a new phone on them. It was hard enough getting
    them to like the pbx! The switch can be on the floor or under the desk.

    The point of the switch is simple: if the phone goes dead, try hitting the
    switch. The existing phone also has a callerid box on it, which is why
    changing the cable from one to the other is overly complicated. I had to
    go back to the office once to do it myself.
    BlueRinse, Apr 2, 2005
    #8
  9. BlueRinse

    Mitel Lurker Guest

    In article <> BlueRinse
    <> writes:

    >Try to put yopurself in the position of the user, not the maintainer.


    Couldn't agree more.
    To someone who is even the least bit technically orientated it can be
    mind-boggling to try to understand how an ordinarily otherwise intelligent
    human being can be *SO UTTERLY HELPLESS* when it comes to even the most
    simple of "technical" tasks, like plugging in the phone.

    >> Since you are wanting to switch between a PBX line and a POTS, I assume
    >> the PBX line is analog also. Why not just use a readily available
    >> 2-line analog phone? If the PBX goes out, press line 2...


    >Because no one is asking me to replace a phone they like. If they *had* a
    >two-line phone, it would be able to use the two lines, since 99% of the
    >time the pbx is up. (For the last year, 100% actually, except for a power
    >failure.)


    Correct again. Unless the PBX had developed a history of routine failures
    such that the user had, through multiple prior experiences become
    accustomed to switching over, this plan wouldn't work.

    >> Since you are making the switch accessable to the person using the
    >> phone, there's really no difference, and you save having a gadget taking
    >> up desk space.


    >Making it easier for a person to accomplish things is not necessarily
    >facilitated by forcing a new phone on them. It was hard enough getting
    >them to like the pbx! The switch can be on the floor or under the desk.


    >The point of the switch is simple: if the phone goes dead, try hitting the
    >switch. The existing phone also has a callerid box on it, which is why
    >changing the cable from one to the other is overly complicated. I had to
    >go back to the office once to do it myself.


    One of the great disasters of the voice cabling infrastructure in our
    office was the ill-fated decision by someone back in the late 1990s to
    install ***TWO*** voice jacks in a common faceplace at every (3000+)
    workstation. The idea at the time was to have every faceplace "equipped
    for" the chance possibility of the user wanting a modem line, even though
    fewer than 10% of the employees ever had one.

    Gauwd-d-d-d-d-d-d almighty, I cannot begin to tell you the number of
    service calls that has spawned. Having some technical skills, I also do
    not understand why someone would unplug their phone and then not be able
    to get it back into the same jack as before, but Jesus Mary and Joseph, it
    happens over and over, at least once a week. Further confusing the
    technical mind is why, if one jack doesn't work the mental midgets don't
    think to try the other one.

    You have to understand, the users are the same folks who today, even if
    their life depended on it, would have no earthly clue how to use their
    computer if someone stole their mouse.
    Mitel Lurker, Apr 2, 2005
    #9
  10. BlueRinse

    wkearney99 Guest

    > To someone who is even the least bit technically orientated it can be
    > mind-boggling to try to understand how an ordinarily otherwise intelligent
    > human being can be *SO UTTERLY HELPLESS* when it comes to even the most
    > simple of "technical" tasks, like plugging in the phone.


    That's out of line.

    The likely place a set of telco plugs would need to exist is in the wiring
    closet. This is a place most normal people are "not supposed to go".
    Asking them to wander in there and make sense of rats nest of wires is
    unrealistic. Granted, this could be wired up such that it was in an
    easier-to-access location with user-friendly labels attached but it's still
    be something most normal people would have trouble handling properly. So
    while you may feel a certain sense of superiority about it most of the
    regular people doing the work don't, and shouldn't, care about it. Besides
    it's them doing their jobs that justifies all this infrastructure being
    there in the first place. Without them, well, admins aren't very
    necessary....

    > One of the great disasters of the voice cabling infrastructure in our
    > office was the ill-fated decision by someone back in the late 1990s to
    > install ***TWO*** voice jacks in a common faceplace at every (3000+)
    > workstation. The idea at the time was to have every faceplace "equipped
    > for" the chance possibility of the user wanting a modem line, even though
    > fewer than 10% of the employees ever had one.


    Damned if do, damned if you don't. One trick that helps avoid trouble is to
    use color-coded sockets. That and LABELLING the faceplaces. Users are
    always going to screw things up. You can only hope to mitigate the
    frequency of their screwups and the amount of blame they'll try to put on
    you.

    > You have to understand, the users are the same folks who today, even if
    > their life depended on it, would have no earthly clue how to use their
    > computer if someone stole their mouse.


    Which has nothing to do with telco wiring.
    wkearney99, Apr 2, 2005
    #10
  11. BlueRinse

    Rick Merrill Guest

    Mitel Lurker wrote:
    ....
    > One of the great disasters of the voice cabling infrastructure in our
    > office was the ill-fated decision by someone back in the late 1990s to
    > install ***TWO*** voice jacks in a common faceplace at every (3000+)
    > workstation. ...


    The user has the mental model that the two jacks are the same
    sort-of-thing as the two AC power jacks: he/she thinks that they are
    parallel or the same thing. You have to lable the jacks.
    Rick Merrill, Apr 2, 2005
    #11
  12. BlueRinse

    Roger Elmore Guest

    > >> Roger Elmore wrote:
    > >> Why not just use a readily available 2-line analog
    > >> phone? If the PBX goes out, press line 2...


    > >BlueRinse wrote:
    > >Because no one is asking me to replace a phone they
    > >like. If they *had* a two-line phone, it would be
    > >able to use the two lines, since 99% of the time the
    > >pbx is up. (For the last year, 100% actually, except
    > >for a power failure.)


    > Mitel Lurker wrote:
    > Correct again. Unless the PBX had developed a history
    > of routine failures such that the user had, through
    > multiple prior experiences become accustomed to switching
    > over, this plan wouldn't work.


    Yeah, I should know better. I've chased more than a couple of trouble
    calls for people who have their two-line's "conference" button pressed
    in and didn't realize it. They call someone, get them *and* their
    voicemail since it's set to forward busy...

    > One of the great disasters of the voice cabling
    > infrastructure in our office was the ill-fated decision
    > by someone back in the late 1990s to install ***TWO***
    > voice jacks in a common faceplace at every (3000+)
    > workstation. The idea at the time was to have every
    > faceplace "equipped for" the chance possibility of the
    > user wanting a modem line, even though fewer than 10% of
    > the employees ever had one.


    3000+ extensions on my campus also. Around half are students. The
    dorms were wired for telephone (either wallplates or c-blocks) long
    before contractors put in CATV and ethernet in a common surface mount
    Panduit box. Every semester when the kids move in they find the CATV,
    then plug their phone into the data jack, and call the Help Desk on
    their cell complaining of no dial tone. What gets me is that while the
    tech has them on the line, why not talk them through finding the jack,
    rather than logging a work order to me. Now I have to go to the dorm
    and plug their phone in for them since I can't talk to them...

    CATV is another good one. When they unplug their TV from home it
    reverts back to antenna in the setup. They plug into the campus cable
    and call complaining they only get the first 13 channels so there
    *must* be something wrong with the cable...
    --
    Roger Elmore
    UTM Telecommunications
    Roger Elmore, Apr 3, 2005
    #12
  13. BlueRinse

    Mitel Lurker Guest

    In article <> "Roger
    Elmore" <> writes:


    >3000+ extensions on my campus also. Around half are students. The
    >dorms were wired for telephone (either wallplates or c-blocks) long
    >before contractors put in CATV and ethernet in a common surface mount
    >Panduit box. Every semester when the kids move in they find the CATV,
    >then plug their phone into the data jack, and call the Help Desk on
    >their cell complaining of no dial tone. What gets me is that while the
    >tech has them on the line, why not talk them through finding the jack,
    >rather than logging a work order to me. Now I have to go to the dorm
    >and plug their phone in for them since I can't talk to them...


    >CATV is another good one. When they unplug their TV from home it
    >reverts back to antenna in the setup. They plug into the campus cable
    >and call complaining they only get the first 13 channels so there
    >*must* be something wrong with the cable...


    We used panduit as well (minicom) and had the opportunity (and even
    recommended) that we use different colored jacks to designate the various
    services (voice/modem/Lan/DSL) with color-coordinated matching pigtail
    cables but the all-knowing architect felt that it wasn't aesthetically
    correct, so everything is standard EI. So much for trying to idiot-proof
    the infrastructure.

    Something else that *REALLY* grindles me... When we were pulling in the
    horizontal distribution it was made clear to everyone that voice & data
    cables had to be fully supported and could *NOT* lay on the ceiling grid
    or lighting fixtures. Then some low-bidder comes in behind us to put in
    the fire detection and security system and guess where their cables are?
    Pretty obvious too they've never had to deal with a splined ceiling grid
    system before either. (That part was almost comical)
    Mitel Lurker, Apr 3, 2005
    #13
  14. BlueRinse

    BlueRinse Guest

    Great post, "Mitel", not just because you agree, either :)

    > You have to understand, the users are the same folks who today, even if
    > their life depended on it, would have no earthly clue how to use their
    > computer if someone stole their mouse.


    Unfortunately true. And I'm married to the user I'm "supporting" !
    BlueRinse, Apr 3, 2005
    #14
  15. BlueRinse

    Roger Elmore Guest

    > Mitel Lurker wrote:
    > We used panduit as well (minicom) and had the opportunity
    > (and even recommended) that we use different colored jacks
    > to designate the various services (voice/modem/Lan/DSL) with
    > color-coordinated matching pigtail cables but the all-knowing
    > architect felt that it wasn't aesthetically correct, so
    > everything is standard EI. So much for trying to idiot-proof
    > the infrastructure.


    We were using Panduit prior to this, but this was the early Cat5 days
    and ModCom. Back then all Cat5 jacks were orange around the insert so
    you had a chance to tell folks to look for the orange jack for data and
    white for phone (Cat3 8X8s were white too, though). The dorms were
    wired with the early jacks that had the same config as a "normal" 568B
    plug. Then Panduit came out with the config that reversed everything
    but 3&6. With the old jack obsolete, you couldn't use the existing cap
    on a new jack if the student had screwed the contact fingers up (how
    they did that I don't know...). Panduit kept the orange insert portion
    for a while on the MiniCom 8X8 flat cap and the GigaJack that takes the
    hinged tool to terminate. The last few rounds of GigaJacks I've got
    in have all been white on the inside like the 6X6 flat cap MiniComs.
    My guess is they weren't selling enough purple jacks. <g>

    > Something else that *REALLY* grindles me... When we were
    > pulling in the horizontal distribution it was made clear to
    > everyone that voice & data cables had to be fully supported
    > and could *NOT* lay on the ceiling grid or lighting fixtures.
    > Then some low-bidder comes in behind us to put in the fire
    > detection and security system and guess where their cables
    > are? Pretty obvious too they've never had to deal with a
    > splined ceiling grid system before either. (That part was
    > almost comical)


    Seems the Fire Marshall would have caught that and had them repull.

    Speaking of security, the access control contracters came in after the
    data/CATV was installed in the dorms, took over a third of the
    backboards when we weren't looking, used our vertical conduits, and
    then had the audacity to tell the head of Housing that the data cables
    were causing interference and making their system flakey. Of course
    our response was "we were here first, move *your* stuff". I guess it
    wasn't *that* bad, they never moved anything... <g>
    --
    Roger Elmore
    UTM Telecommunications
    Roger Elmore, Apr 3, 2005
    #15
  16. BlueRinse

    Roger Elmore Guest

    > BlueRinse wrote:
    > Unfortunately true. And I'm married to the user
    > I'm "supporting" !


    Snap snap, grin grin, wink wink, nudge nudge, say no more...

    --
    Roger Elmore
    UTM Telecommunications
    Roger Elmore, Apr 3, 2005
    #16
  17. BlueRinse

    Mitel Lurker Guest

    In article <> "Roger
    Elmore" <> writes:


    >> Something else that *REALLY* grindles me... When we were
    >> pulling in the horizontal distribution it was made clear to
    >> everyone that voice & data cables had to be fully supported
    >> and could *NOT* lay on the ceiling grid or lighting fixtures.
    >> Then some low-bidder comes in behind us to put in the fire
    >> detection and security system and guess where their cables
    >> are? Pretty obvious too they've never had to deal with a
    >> splined ceiling grid system before either. (That part was
    >> almost comical)


    >Seems the Fire Marshall would have caught that and had them repull.


    That's one thing about a splined ceiling. Once closed up NOBODY ever wants
    to re-open it ;-)
    Mitel Lurker, Apr 3, 2005
    #17
  18. BlueRinse

    Marc H.Popek Guest

    yes. the device you seek is right here

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    100% Ebay seller rating seller.


    "BlueRinse" <> wrote in message
    news:p...
    > In order to make it easier to switch directly to POTS in case of a pbx
    > failure, I need a hardware switch to connect one phone to two different
    > sockets. Anyone have any experience with thiese?
    >
    > thx
    Marc H.Popek, Apr 6, 2005
    #18
  19. BlueRinse

    Marc H.Popek Guest

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5768147925&rd=1&sspagenam
    e=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1
    "Marc H.Popek" <> wrote in message
    news:TAG4e.46245$...
    > yes. the device you seek is right here
    >
    >

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5764939488&rd=1&sspagenam
    > e=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1
    >
    > and here
    >
    >

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5765185626&rd=1&sspagenam
    > e=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1
    >
    > they move fast and provide the automatic switching you describe.
    > 100% Ebay seller rating seller.
    >
    >
    > "BlueRinse" <> wrote in message
    > news:p...
    > > In order to make it easier to switch directly to POTS in case of a pbx
    > > failure, I need a hardware switch to connect one phone to two different
    > > sockets. Anyone have any experience with thiese?
    > >
    > > thx

    >
    >
    Marc H.Popek, Apr 16, 2005
    #19
  20. BlueRinse

    Marc H.Popek Guest

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    "Marc H.Popek" <> wrote in message
    news:XWb8e.82118$...
    >

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5768147925&rd=1&sspagenam
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    > "Marc H.Popek" <> wrote in message
    > news:TAG4e.46245$...
    > > yes. the device you seek is right here
    > >
    > >

    >

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5764939488&rd=1&sspagenam
    > > e=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1
    > >
    > > and here
    > >
    > >

    >

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5765185626&rd=1&sspagenam
    > > e=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1
    > >
    > > they move fast and provide the automatic switching you describe.
    > > 100% Ebay seller rating seller.
    > >
    > >
    > > "BlueRinse" <> wrote in message
    > > news:p...
    > > > In order to make it easier to switch directly to POTS in case of a pbx
    > > > failure, I need a hardware switch to connect one phone to two

    different
    > > > sockets. Anyone have any experience with thiese?
    > > >
    > > > thx

    > >
    > >

    >
    >
    Marc H.Popek, Apr 22, 2005
    #20
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