Hardware/PSU question

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Robert Mathews, Aug 12, 2003.

  1. On Tue, 12 Aug 2003 20:32:51 +1200, "~misfit~" <misfit@'SPAMTRAP'orcon.net.nz>
    wrote:

    >Hi Group.
    >
    >A friend of mine has just bought a new computer. He specified what he wanted
    >and they built it for him. Basically all he asked for was an 80gig HDD,
    >512Mb RAM, P4 and a gamers graphics card as the machine was to be used
    >mainly for gaming.





    Did they put in the Parts that he recommended or was it so open that they just
    filled it with cheap junk..?

    I think they saw him comming.

    >So he gets his machine with XP Home pre-installed and straight away it's
    >crashing. It won't play games for more than a minute and even just
    >web-browsing crashes it after a while. He spoke to their tech who wanted to
    >know exactly how it was crashing and when. He said it gives blue-screens
    >with varying messages at different times and sometimes just spontaneously
    >re-boots.



    One must deal with reputable shops, far to many copyboys out their, and from
    what I read there is one on every corner in Aulk..
     
    Robert Mathews, Aug 12, 2003
    #1
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  2. Robert Mathews

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Hi Group.

    A friend of mine has just bought a new computer. He specified what he wanted
    and they built it for him. Basically all he asked for was an 80gig HDD,
    512Mb RAM, P4 and a gamers graphics card as the machine was to be used
    mainly for gaming.

    So he gets his machine with XP Home pre-installed and straight away it's
    crashing. It won't play games for more than a minute and even just
    web-browsing crashes it after a while. He spoke to their tech who wanted to
    know exactly how it was crashing and when. He said it gives blue-screens
    with varying messages at different times and sometimes just spontaneously
    re-boots.

    They weren't helpful, firstly saying it's something he's doing and then
    saying send it back and they;ll get it back to him in a week. He said that
    wasn't good enough and was told to bring it up the next day and he can wait
    if he wants to while they look at it.

    He takes it up there (Albany from Pukekohe) and waits 3 hours in the
    car-park. They tell him it was a corrupted windows problem and that they've
    fixed it. He asks for the windows CD as, although the paperwork that came
    with the PC said CD included, there wasn't one. They say there was and won't
    listen to his protestations.

    He gets it home, tries to install and play Battlefield 1942 and crashes.
    Repeatedly. He's been talking to me about it but I'm loathe to get involved
    as I feel it's a warranty thing and they should fix it. He say's there's a
    langauge problem for a start, the tech doesn't have English as his first
    language, and he doesn't know how to deal with the guy who just keeps
    insisting it's my mate's fault.

    He rings them back and they agree to give him *another* windows CD if he
    goes to pick it up and tell him to install over windows. I gave him a
    bootable floppy with memtest86 on it, thinking it could be flakey memory. He
    re-installed but still had problems so booted into memtest and left it
    running over-night. It went fine, no errors reported.

    So he bought it around to me. I formatted and did a fresh install. No
    problems. I left it dowloading a 26Mb driver-update and came back to it 90
    minutes later to find it had re-booted.

    I installed prime95 and started the torture-test. It crashed after 30
    seconds. I installed 3DMark 2001 SE and tried to run it. It crashed after 10
    seconds.

    The graphics card they put in is a GeForce4 MX440 and he's not that happy
    about that, it's not exactly a serious gaming card. He intends to replace
    it. The CPU is a P4 2.4Ghz.

    I decided it was time to take a peek inside it and was very surprised to see
    on big letters on the PSU "300 Watt".

    I think this is the problem, the PSU isn't big enough. What do you guys
    think?

    Thanks,
    --
    ~misfit~



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    ~misfit~, Aug 12, 2003
    #2
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  3. Robert Mathews

    ~misfit~ Guest

    "Bryan McNally" <> wrote in message
    news:bha9if$r7p$...
    > Most P4 systems come with a 320 watt power supply which is adequate for
    > most users. A 300 watt supply I suspect would be borderline on any P4
    > system. The amount of hardware installed is relevant to. My own personal
    > opinion would be to run with at least a 350 watt power supply.
    > I would recommend a TI4200 graphics card if on a budget as a good
    > replacement. If possible though a DX9 card would be even better as there
    > are games due out soon that use DX9. Well thats my 2 cents worth.


    Thanks. I would have thought that 400 watt would have been more like it
    personally, especially as he said it was for gaming. At the moment it only
    has the two IDE devices, the aforementioned 80gig HDD and a DVD-CDRW Liteon
    combo drive.

    I told him he's an idiot, he didn't know much about graphics cards (he does
    now, I also suggested a ti4200 and showed him some benchmarks) so he just
    asked them to put in a 'gamer's card' and he ordered it verbally so he
    really has no come-back I feel.

    BTW, there are games out now that use DX9 and have been for a while.

    This machine is a huge jump from his last machine, a P100 with a 1gig HDD
    and 16MB RAM and he really didn't know much about the latest gear. All he
    knew was he wanted to be able to play Battlefield 1942 smoothly and be
    reasonably future-proofed.

    I'm just curious if anyone else thinks that the problems he's having are due
    to the PSU. It'd be a bitch to kick up a stink about it, get it replaced
    with a larger one and still have problems. If it is the PSU and he's having
    problems with a measly passively cooled GF4MX it'll get a lot worse if he
    puts a ti4200 in, they suck a bit more gas.

    Cheers.
    --
    ~misfit~



    > ~misfit~ wrote:
    > > Hi Group.
    > >
    > > A friend of mine has just bought a new computer. He specified what he

    wanted
    > > and they built it for him. Basically all he asked for was an 80gig HDD,
    > > 512Mb RAM, P4 and a gamers graphics card as the machine was to be used
    > > mainly for gaming.
    > >
    > > So he gets his machine with XP Home pre-installed and straight away it's
    > > crashing. It won't play games for more than a minute and even just
    > > web-browsing crashes it after a while. He spoke to their tech who wanted

    to
    > > know exactly how it was crashing and when. He said it gives blue-screens
    > > with varying messages at different times and sometimes just

    spontaneously
    > > re-boots.
    > >
    > > They weren't helpful, firstly saying it's something he's doing and then
    > > saying send it back and they;ll get it back to him in a week. He said

    that
    > > wasn't good enough and was told to bring it up the next day and he can

    wait
    > > if he wants to while they look at it.
    > >
    > > He takes it up there (Albany from Pukekohe) and waits 3 hours in the
    > > car-park. They tell him it was a corrupted windows problem and that

    they've
    > > fixed it. He asks for the windows CD as, although the paperwork that

    came
    > > with the PC said CD included, there wasn't one. They say there was and

    won't
    > > listen to his protestations.
    > >
    > > He gets it home, tries to install and play Battlefield 1942 and crashes.
    > > Repeatedly. He's been talking to me about it but I'm loathe to get

    involved
    > > as I feel it's a warranty thing and they should fix it. He say's there's

    a
    > > langauge problem for a start, the tech doesn't have English as his first
    > > language, and he doesn't know how to deal with the guy who just keeps
    > > insisting it's my mate's fault.
    > >
    > > He rings them back and they agree to give him *another* windows CD if he
    > > goes to pick it up and tell him to install over windows. I gave him a
    > > bootable floppy with memtest86 on it, thinking it could be flakey

    memory. He
    > > re-installed but still had problems so booted into memtest and left it
    > > running over-night. It went fine, no errors reported.
    > >
    > > So he bought it around to me. I formatted and did a fresh install. No
    > > problems. I left it dowloading a 26Mb driver-update and came back to it

    90
    > > minutes later to find it had re-booted.
    > >
    > > I installed prime95 and started the torture-test. It crashed after 30
    > > seconds. I installed 3DMark 2001 SE and tried to run it. It crashed

    after 10
    > > seconds.
    > >
    > > The graphics card they put in is a GeForce4 MX440 and he's not that

    happy
    > > about that, it's not exactly a serious gaming card. He intends to

    replace
    > > it. The CPU is a P4 2.4Ghz.
    > >
    > > I decided it was time to take a peek inside it and was very surprised to

    see
    > > on big letters on the PSU "300 Watt".
    > >
    > > I think this is the problem, the PSU isn't big enough. What do you guys
    > > think?
    > >
    > > Thanks,
    > > --
    > > ~misfit~
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > ---
    > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
    > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
    > > Version: 6.0.507 / Virus Database: 304 - Release Date: 4/08/2003
    > >
    > >

    >



    ---
    Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
    Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
    Version: 6.0.507 / Virus Database: 304 - Release Date: 4/08/2003
     
    ~misfit~, Aug 12, 2003
    #3
  4. Robert Mathews

    Tim Guest

    "~misfit~" <misfit@'SPAMTRAP'orcon.net.nz> wrote in
    news:bB4_a.113925$:

    > I'm just curious if anyone else thinks that the problems he's having
    > are due to the PSU. It'd be a bitch to kick up a stink about it, get
    > it replaced with a larger one and still have problems. If it is the
    > PSU and he's having problems with a measly passively cooled GF4MX
    > it'll get a lot worse if he puts a ti4200 in, they suck a bit more
    > gas.


    The problems he is experiencing are exactly the same as problems I had with
    my PSU. The problem with the PSU was not that it was underpowered (it was
    320W) but that it was just fairly low quality (an iCute piece of junk).
    Replaced it with a 350W Enermax and everything is fine.

    --
    Tim
    - <insert witty signature here>
     
    Tim, Aug 12, 2003
    #4
  5. On Wed, 13 Aug 2003 00:05:08 +1200, Tim <> wrote:

    >"~misfit~" <misfit@'SPAMTRAP'orcon.net.nz> wrote in
    >news:bB4_a.113925$:
    >
    >> I'm just curious if anyone else thinks that the problems he's having
    >> are due to the PSU. It'd be a bitch to kick up a stink about it, get
    >> it replaced with a larger one and still have problems. If it is the
    >> PSU and he's having problems with a measly passively cooled GF4MX
    >> it'll get a lot worse if he puts a ti4200 in, they suck a bit more
    >> gas.

    >
    >The problems he is experiencing are exactly the same as problems I had with
    >my PSU. The problem with the PSU was not that it was underpowered (it was
    >320W) but that it was just fairly low quality (an iCute piece of junk).
    >Replaced it with a 350W Enermax and everything is fine.




    Bit Tim that was for a AMD Electric Fire..
     
    Robert Mathews, Aug 12, 2003
    #5
  6. Robert Mathews

    ~misfit~ Guest

    "Tim" <> wrote in message
    news:Xns93D62AC2B81newsgroupsnetdaemonc@192.168.0.1...
    > "~misfit~" <misfit@'SPAMTRAP'orcon.net.nz> wrote in
    > news:bB4_a.113925$:
    >
    > > I'm just curious if anyone else thinks that the problems he's having
    > > are due to the PSU. It'd be a bitch to kick up a stink about it, get
    > > it replaced with a larger one and still have problems. If it is the
    > > PSU and he's having problems with a measly passively cooled GF4MX
    > > it'll get a lot worse if he puts a ti4200 in, they suck a bit more
    > > gas.

    >
    > The problems he is experiencing are exactly the same as problems I had

    with
    > my PSU. The problem with the PSU was not that it was underpowered (it was
    > 320W) but that it was just fairly low quality (an iCute piece of junk).
    > Replaced it with a 350W Enermax and everything is fine.


    Thanks Tim, that's one person who thinks I'm on the right track. :)
    I'm not sure of the brand name of this thing, I've put the sides back on,
    but it wasn't a name I recognized and I know of several PSU brand-names.
    --
    ~misfit~



    ---
    Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
    Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
    Version: 6.0.509 / Virus Database: 306 - Release Date: 12/08/2003
     
    ~misfit~, Aug 12, 2003
    #6
  7. "~misfit~" <misfit@'SPAMTRAP'orcon.net.nz> wrote in message
    news:i45_a.113951$...
    > Forgot to mention, The CPU vcore varies between 1.42 and 1.48v by the

    second
    > and the 3.3v line is usually 3.28 and dips to 3.25 at times. This is

    without
    > the PC doing any work, just sitting there. Readings observed in BIOS and
    > using MBM5, both agree. All the other voltages are down a little on what
    > they should be as well.


    I think this deviation is within acceptable limits.

    Cheers,
    Nicholas Sherlock
     
    Nicholas Sherlock, Aug 12, 2003
    #7
  8. Robert Mathews

    colinco Guest

    In article <NC1_a.113727$>, ~misfit~ wrote...
    > I think this is the problem, the PSU isn't big enough. What do you guys
    > think?
    >
    >

    If it is one of the "free" psu that come in cheap cases it probably
    doesn't have the current capacity required on 12V line.

    Take it back - even if your friend specified the case the shop should
    have known better.
     
    colinco, Aug 12, 2003
    #8
  9. There was a problem B1942 and refresh rates on monitors too.

    GP forums - www.gpforums.co.nz - might be able to point you/him in the right
    direction.
     
    Robert Mathews, Aug 12, 2003
    #9
  10. Robert Mathews

    Rider Guest


    >but don't want to look like a
    > prat if it doesn't fix the problems.
    >


    Every technicians worst nightmare LOL
     
    Rider, Aug 13, 2003
    #10
  11. Robert Mathews

    Rider Guest

    and 'MSI' in big letters).
    > --


    Theres ya problem, blardy crappy boards LOL

    Rider
     
    Rider, Aug 13, 2003
    #11
  12. Robert Mathews

    Andrew Guest

    They are not crap!

    Well.. dependson the model i guess, im not too keen on the Intel side of MSI
    boards

    "Rider" <> wrote in message
    news:bhbt8g$2kl$...
    > and 'MSI' in big letters).
    > > --

    >
    > Theres ya problem, blardy crappy boards LOL
    >
    > Rider
    >
    >
     
    Andrew, Aug 13, 2003
    #12
  13. Re: Help. Translation needed

    Andrew wrote:
    > Looks like your questioning yourself - someone change your nick, it
    > seems really really stupid


    Really ?

    > anyway he was refering to the hot AMD cpus using too much power and
    > burning to a crisp


    Ahh, missed that part. Must have been sober that day. Thanks.
     
    Robert Mathews, Aug 13, 2003
    #13
  14. Robert Mathews

    Andrew Guest

    >
    > At least MSI have never shipped pirated bioses and fake cache ram
    > (complete with tweaked bios falsely reporting cache was there).
    >
    >


    Who did do that?
     
    Andrew, Aug 13, 2003
    #14
  15. On Wed, 13 Aug 2003 03:00:16 +0000 (UTC), MarkH <>
    wrote:

    >"Andrew" <> wrote in news:4Jg_a.11098$9f7.1288986
    >@news02.tsnz.net:
    >
    >>>
    >>> At least MSI have never shipped pirated bioses and fake cache ram
    >>> (complete with tweaked bios falsely reporting cache was there).
    >>>
    >>>

    >>
    >> Who did do that?

    >
    >That would be Edge, but that was quite a while ago, on 486 MBs I believe.
    >
    >The thing that was much dodgier was their response: Oh that’s quite normal
    >in the computer industry, they’re not fake cache RAM chips, they’re sort of
    >placeholders. I have never seen any other motherboard with empty RAM slots
    >filled with plastic replica RAM to fill the gap, it was an obvious con.


    To be "fair", it wasn't just Edge. Other assemblers here and overseas
    were doing the same thing.

    - -
    Regards
    Malcolm.
     
    Malcolm Moore, Aug 13, 2003
    #15
  16. Robert Mathews

    colinco Guest

    In article <>, Malcolm Moore
    wrote...
    > To be "fair", it wasn't just Edge. Other assemblers here and overseas
    > were doing the same thing.
    >
    >

    http://www.redhill.net.au/b-bad.html

    PC-Chips now part of Elite Group
     
    colinco, Aug 13, 2003
    #16
  17. Robert Mathews

    Tim Guest

    "~misfit~" <misfit@'SPAMTRAP'orcon.net.nz> wrote in
    news:_ue_a.114390$:

    >
    > "Nicholas Sherlock" <> wrote in message
    > news:bhbgjv$psn$...
    >> "~misfit~" <misfit@'SPAMTRAP'orcon.net.nz> wrote in message
    >> news:i45_a.113951$...
    >> > Forgot to mention, The CPU vcore varies between 1.42 and 1.48v by
    >> > the

    >> second
    >> > and the 3.3v line is usually 3.28 and dips to 3.25 at times. This
    >> > is

    >> without
    >> > the PC doing any work, just sitting there. Readings observed in
    >> > BIOS and using MBM5, both agree. All the other voltages are down a
    >> > little on what they should be as well.

    >>
    >> I think this deviation is within acceptable limits.

    >
    > You do? OK. I think if it's fluctuating like that *without* the
    > graphics card or CPU doing any major work it's gonna get a lot worse
    > in 3D apps and games. It won't run Prime95 for long (CPU working hard)
    > or anything that requires the graphics card to output 3D.
    >
    > The temps are fine, both the CPU and the NB run at around 50 celcius
    > and it has a case fan venting out the top. The NB has a big-ass HSF on
    > it (with cute little fashing LEDs and 'MSI' in big letters).
    > --
    > ~misfit~


    Now I would be even more sure it is a PSU issue - MSI boards seem to be
    rather picky about PSU stability. Guess what brand board I use ;)


    --
    Tim
    - <insert witty signature here>
     
    Tim, Aug 13, 2003
    #17
  18. On Wed, 13 Aug 2003 18:15:18 +1200, Tim <> wrote:

    >"~misfit~" <misfit@'SPAMTRAP'orcon.net.nz> wrote in
    >news:_ue_a.114390$:
    >
    >>
    >> "Nicholas Sherlock" <> wrote in message
    >> news:bhbgjv$psn$...
    >>> "~misfit~" <misfit@'SPAMTRAP'orcon.net.nz> wrote in message
    >>> news:i45_a.113951$...
    >>> > Forgot to mention, The CPU vcore varies between 1.42 and 1.48v by
    >>> > the
    >>> second
    >>> > and the 3.3v line is usually 3.28 and dips to 3.25 at times. This
    >>> > is
    >>> without
    >>> > the PC doing any work, just sitting there. Readings observed in
    >>> > BIOS and using MBM5, both agree. All the other voltages are down a
    >>> > little on what they should be as well.
    >>>
    >>> I think this deviation is within acceptable limits.

    >>
    >> You do? OK. I think if it's fluctuating like that *without* the
    >> graphics card or CPU doing any major work it's gonna get a lot worse
    >> in 3D apps and games. It won't run Prime95 for long (CPU working hard)
    >> or anything that requires the graphics card to output 3D.
    >>
    >> The temps are fine, both the CPU and the NB run at around 50 celcius
    >> and it has a case fan venting out the top. The NB has a big-ass HSF on
    >> it (with cute little fashing LEDs and 'MSI' in big letters).
    >> --
    >> ~misfit~

    >
    >Now I would be even more sure it is a PSU issue - MSI boards seem to be
    >rather picky about PSU stability. Guess what brand board I use ;)




    Try tweaking the 3.3 V in the Bios I had a problem with a 3D card using a MSI
    MoBo and was fixed by setting the I/O Voltage to 3.4V..
     
    Robert Mathews, Aug 13, 2003
    #18
  19. On 13 Aug 2003 18:57:03 +1200, samg <> wrote:

    >"~misfit~" <misfit@'SPAMTRAP'orcon.net.nz> wrote in
    >news:NC1_a.113727$:
    >
    >> Hi Group.
    >>
    >> A friend of mine has just bought a new computer. He specified what he
    >> wanted and they built it for him. Basically all he asked for was an
    >> 80gig HDD, 512Mb RAM, P4 and a gamers graphics card as the machine was
    >> to be used mainly for gaming.

    ><snip>
    >>
    >> I think this is the problem, the PSU isn't big enough. What do you
    >> guys think?
    >>

    >
    >My advice is a bit different from the rest. From personal experience, I
    >would strongly suggest he takes the pc back in and get his money back.
    >If your already having problems with a machine so new and dicked around
    >by their so called technical support its not worth the bother, your just
    >asking for trouble. Theres nothing worse than driving back and forth
    >trying to get your pc repaired only to get home and find its still
    >playing up.
    >
    >Its a 'rotten egg' system and you shouldnt waste time trying to get it
    >going.
    >




    I could not agree more so..

    misfit should never have touched it as the firm now has a get out and they
    could state that he stuffed it up.
     
    Robert Mathews, Aug 13, 2003
    #19
  20. Robert Mathews

    ~misfit~ Guest

    "samg" <> wrote in message
    news:Xns93D6C04F43C76samg@203.97.37.6...
    > "~misfit~" <misfit@'SPAMTRAP'orcon.net.nz> wrote in
    > news:NC1_a.113727$:
    >
    > > Hi Group.
    > >
    > > A friend of mine has just bought a new computer. He specified what he
    > > wanted and they built it for him. Basically all he asked for was an
    > > 80gig HDD, 512Mb RAM, P4 and a gamers graphics card as the machine was
    > > to be used mainly for gaming.

    > <snip>
    > >
    > > I think this is the problem, the PSU isn't big enough. What do you
    > > guys think?
    > >

    >
    > My advice is a bit different from the rest. From personal experience, I
    > would strongly suggest he takes the pc back in and get his money back.
    > If your already having problems with a machine so new and dicked around
    > by their so called technical support its not worth the bother, your just
    > asking for trouble. Theres nothing worse than driving back and forth
    > trying to get your pc repaired only to get home and find its still
    > playing up.
    >
    > Its a 'rotten egg' system and you shouldnt waste time trying to get it
    > going.


    Good point. He's been considering that as the bill hasn't been paid yet.
    (bought through his father's business)
    --
    ~misfit~



    ---
    Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
    Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
    Version: 6.0.509 / Virus Database: 306 - Release Date: 12/08/2003
     
    ~misfit~, Aug 13, 2003
    #20
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