hard drive migration

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Peter Huebner, May 29, 2005.

  1. I shall soon buy a big new harddrive to replace the 3 noisy small ones I
    am currently using.

    Tools I have currently are Partition Magic and DriveImage. OS is WinXP
    SP1.

    So, if I purchase a SATA drive, would it be a problem to copy the
    current partitions to the SATA drive and have it boot? I am just none
    too sure if these programs would copy correct boot info. I've been
    burned before, using a program called drivecopy or s.th. similar which
    copied the drive and boot sector from one hdd to another all right
    (sector copy), but the large drive ended up with a 2Gb partition,
    bootable, instead of the 80 it should've had.

    Another of the possible issues that occurs to me is the driver one -
    since you normally have to install a driver for SATA during WinXP
    installation I am not sure if I would somehow need to slot one in for an
    SATA drive to boot.
    Having said that, XP seems to have no issues seeing one of my ide drives
    that is connected to a SATA port via the Abit adapter gizmo.

    If the SATA would be a problem, I might be better off buying a slightly
    cheaper IDE drive.

    Any informed opinions?

    tia, -Peter
     
    Peter Huebner, May 29, 2005
    #1
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  2. Peter Huebner

    Harry Guest

    Peter Huebner wrote:

    > I shall soon buy a big new harddrive to replace the 3 noisy small ones I
    > am currently using.
    >
    > Tools I have currently are Partition Magic and DriveImage. OS is WinXP
    > SP1.
    >


    The best tools to use are fdisk, format, and xcopy32.
    Just make sure they are the patched versions that can
    handle large disk partitions.
     
    Harry, May 29, 2005
    #2
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  3. Peter Huebner

    Impossible Guest

    "Peter Huebner" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >I shall soon buy a big new harddrive to replace the 3 noisy small
    >ones I
    > am currently using.
    >
    > Tools I have currently are Partition Magic and DriveImage. OS is
    > WinXP
    > SP1.


    Unless you have a good reason not to, you should install XP SP2.

    >
    > So, if I purchase a SATA drive, would it be a problem to copy the
    > current partitions to the SATA drive and have it boot? I am just
    > none
    > too sure if these programs would copy correct boot info. I've been
    > burned before, using a program called drivecopy or s.th. similar
    > which
    > copied the drive and boot sector from one hdd to another all right
    > (sector copy), but the large drive ended up with a 2Gb partition,
    > bootable, instead of the 80 it should've had.


    The free tools that the major drive manufacturers provide to transfer
    data from disk-to-disk are the best, I think. Just check their web
    site and download. Easy as.

    >
    > Another of the possible issues that occurs to me is the driver one -
    > since you normally have to install a driver for SATA during WinXP
    > installation I am not sure if I would somehow need to slot one in
    > for an
    > SATA drive to boot.


    > Having said that, XP seems to have no issues seeing one of my ide
    > drives
    > that is connected to a SATA port via the Abit adapter gizmo.


    It all depends on your motherboard. Just follow the documentation you
    have -- or better yet, go to the Abit site and get all their latest
    drivers.

    >
    > If the SATA would be a problem, I might be better off buying a
    > slightly
    > cheaper IDE drive.
    >
    > Any informed opinions?


    SATA drives offer negligible performance advantages in most systems.
    Unless you have a compelling reason to choose SATA, I'd strongly
    suggest you stick with IDE for now.
     
    Impossible, May 29, 2005
    #3
  4. Peter Huebner

    H.O.G Guest

    On Sun, 29 May 2005 11:13:32 +1200, Harry <>
    spoke these fine words:

    >Peter Huebner wrote:
    >
    >> I shall soon buy a big new harddrive to replace the 3 noisy small ones I
    >> am currently using.
    >>
    >> Tools I have currently are Partition Magic and DriveImage. OS is WinXP
    >> SP1.
    >>

    >
    >The best tools to use are fdisk, format, and xcopy32.
    >Just make sure they are the patched versions that can
    >handle large disk partitions.


    Ay? What a load of rubbish.

    Are you deliberately ill informing this poster?

    OP: Please disregard Harry's comments.
     
    H.O.G, May 29, 2005
    #4
  5. Peter Huebner

    Harry Guest

    H.O.G wrote:

    > On Sun, 29 May 2005 11:13:32 +1200, Harry <>
    > spoke these fine words:
    >
    >>Peter Huebner wrote:
    >>
    >>> I shall soon buy a big new harddrive to replace the 3 noisy small ones I
    >>> am currently using.
    >>>
    >>> Tools I have currently are Partition Magic and DriveImage. OS is WinXP
    >>> SP1.
    >>>

    >>
    >>The best tools to use are fdisk, format, and xcopy32.
    >>Just make sure they are the patched versions that can
    >>handle large disk partitions.

    >
    > Ay? What a load of rubbish.
    >
    > Are you deliberately ill informing this poster?
    >
    > OP: Please disregard Harry's comments.


    Why is it a load of rubbish?
    Please explain.
     
    Harry, May 29, 2005
    #5
  6. Peter Huebner

    -=rjh=- Guest

    Harry wrote:
    > Peter Huebner wrote:
    >
    >
    >>I shall soon buy a big new harddrive to replace the 3 noisy small ones I
    >>am currently using.
    >>
    >>Tools I have currently are Partition Magic and DriveImage. OS is WinXP
    >>SP1.
    >>

    >
    >
    > The best tools to use are fdisk, format, and xcopy32.
    > Just make sure they are the patched versions that can
    > handle large disk partitions.
    >


    No, I think you meant "large filesystems".

    Still, easy mistake to make, what?
     
    -=rjh=-, May 29, 2005
    #6
  7. Peter Huebner

    Harry Guest

    -=rjh=- wrote:

    > Harry wrote:
    >> Peter Huebner wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>I shall soon buy a big new harddrive to replace the 3 noisy small ones I
    >>>am currently using.
    >>>
    >>>Tools I have currently are Partition Magic and DriveImage. OS is WinXP
    >>>SP1.
    >>>

    >>
    >>
    >> The best tools to use are fdisk, format, and xcopy32.
    >> Just make sure they are the patched versions that can
    >> handle large disk partitions.
    >>

    >
    > No, I think you meant "large filesystems".
    >
    > Still, easy mistake to make, what?


    No, I don't.
    Fdisk is really about partitions and not filesystems.
    The patch for format is really only so that it understands
    larger partitions.

    There has never been any need to patch anything so you can
    have a large FAT32 filesystem. FAT32 has always had that
    capability mainly because of flexibility in cluster sizes.

    So I really did mean "large partitions" and that is
    exactly what I said and now you know why I said it.
     
    Harry, May 29, 2005
    #7
  8. Peter Huebner

    Brendan Guest

    On Sun, 29 May 2005 11:10:18 +1200, Peter Huebner wrote:

    > I shall soon buy a big new harddrive to replace the 3 noisy small ones I
    > am currently using.
    >
    > Tools I have currently are Partition Magic and DriveImage. OS is WinXP
    > SP1.


    Switch to sp2 if you can - it has better support for large hard drives.

    > So, if I purchase a SATA drive, would it be a problem to copy the
    > current partitions to the SATA drive and have it boot? I am just none
    > too sure if these programs would copy correct boot info. I've been
    > burned before, using a program called drivecopy or s.th. similar which
    > copied the drive and boot sector from one hdd to another all right
    > (sector copy), but the large drive ended up with a 2Gb partition,
    > bootable, instead of the 80 it should've had.
    >
    > Another of the possible issues that occurs to me is the driver one -
    > since you normally have to install a driver for SATA during WinXP
    > installation I am not sure if I would somehow need to slot one in for an
    > SATA drive to boot.
    > Having said that, XP seems to have no issues seeing one of my ide drives
    > that is connected to a SATA port via the Abit adapter gizmo.
    >
    > If the SATA would be a problem, I might be better off buying a slightly
    > cheaper IDE drive.
    >
    > Any informed opinions?


    sata or pata ? Go for sata. Bit more future proof at the moment, don't have
    to fight stupid big cables, no pissing around with slave/master settings.

    I had no real problems. Windows XP install CD decided only pata drives were
    bootable, got a little confused as to wether SATA drives were bootable and
    decided it needed a pata drive to boot from. So I removed the pata drives,
    and it then decided the sata ones were bootable and no problems... Put the
    pata ones back in, and it was still happy to boot from the sata ones...
    fucking MS.

    I was reinstalling windows xp though, not image copying it. YOU may have
    stupidness from XP due to wrong drivers config etc.

    Solution: image copy your stuff to the new drive, and then do a recovery
    reinstall over the top of it (e.g. 'leave filesystem intact' from the winXP
    install cd, etc). This should preserve your app installs etc, but you'll
    need to do the patches again.

    After doing the image copy, turn machine off an remove the pata drives.
    Some BIOSes see them first, before sata, and will attempt to boot from
    them. And since you would have a bootable hd there....

    Note: i do not know about drive image, but the version of acronis true
    image I tried refused to see the sata drive. Ghost 8 (iirc) did see it
    though.

    I would be inclined to NOT use partition magic if you can avoid it. It
    likes to **** things up with NTFS. Copy your boot partition, re-install xp,
    boot into safe mode, partition the rest of your HD with windows drive
    manager, and use windows to copy the files over from the pata drives. You
    will need to use partition magic to remove the 'active' flag from the boot
    partition on the pata drives, or the comp might boot from the pata drive.

    (for just copying the files over, you could let it boot from the pata
    drive. But if you are planning to leave the pata drives connected for extra
    storage, you'll have to remove the active flag anyhow. And, booting from
    the pata drives to copy the files may also allow THAT windows to see your
    new sata drive, note it's active flag on it's partition, helpfully remove
    it, maybe even re-letter your sata drive (it's C: might change to something
    else...) meaning you would not be able to boot from the sata until you used
    partition magic to re-set it's active flag... Also, you might have fun and
    games with ntfs security. No biggie unless you used encryption, but can be
    tricky for the new player...)

    --

    .... Brendan

    4848 +(5236)- [X]

    <ohm> damn
    <ohm> ****
    <ohm> DAMN
    <ohm> i was just in an AIM convo with a chick, and my grandmother's window
    pops up
    <ohm> ****
    <ohm> i go like this to her
    <ohm> "i want to suck on your clit"
    <ohm> ****


    Note: All my comments are copyright 29/05/2005 1:16:28 p.m. and are opinion only where not otherwise stated and always "to the best of my recollection". www.computerman.orcon.net.nz.
     
    Brendan, May 29, 2005
    #8
  9. Peter Huebner

    H.O.G Guest

    On Sun, 29 May 2005 12:44:03 +1200, Harry <>
    spoke these fine words:

    >H.O.G wrote:
    >
    >> On Sun, 29 May 2005 11:13:32 +1200, Harry <>
    >> spoke these fine words:
    >>
    >>>Peter Huebner wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> I shall soon buy a big new harddrive to replace the 3 noisy small ones I
    >>>> am currently using.
    >>>>
    >>>> Tools I have currently are Partition Magic and DriveImage. OS is WinXP
    >>>> SP1.
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>>The best tools to use are fdisk, format, and xcopy32.
    >>>Just make sure they are the patched versions that can
    >>>handle large disk partitions.

    >>
    >> Ay? What a load of rubbish.
    >>
    >> Are you deliberately ill informing this poster?
    >>
    >> OP: Please disregard Harry's comments.

    >
    >Why is it a load of rubbish?
    >Please explain.


    Harry, are you honestly trying to say that fdisk, format and xcopy are
    suitable alternative to modern tools such as PM, DriveImage and Ghost?

    The DOS tools you mention are deprecated, inefficient, slow, and often
    simply don't work for moving a bootable partition from one device to
    another.

    Why would you want to spend all that time fdisking (and waiting for a
    verify about 10 times), formatting, xcopying, etc, when you could just
    spark up PM and drag and drop the partition?
     
    H.O.G, May 29, 2005
    #9
  10. Peter Huebner

    Harry Guest

    H.O.G wrote:

    > On Sun, 29 May 2005 12:44:03 +1200, Harry <>
    > spoke these fine words:
    >
    >>H.O.G wrote:
    >>
    >>> On Sun, 29 May 2005 11:13:32 +1200, Harry <>
    >>> spoke these fine words:
    >>>
    >>>>Peter Huebner wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> I shall soon buy a big new harddrive to replace the 3 noisy small ones
    >>>>> I am currently using.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Tools I have currently are Partition Magic and DriveImage. OS is WinXP
    >>>>> SP1.
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>The best tools to use are fdisk, format, and xcopy32.
    >>>>Just make sure they are the patched versions that can
    >>>>handle large disk partitions.
    >>>
    >>> Ay? What a load of rubbish.
    >>>
    >>> Are you deliberately ill informing this poster?
    >>>
    >>> OP: Please disregard Harry's comments.

    >>
    >>Why is it a load of rubbish?
    >>Please explain.

    >
    > Harry, are you honestly trying to say that fdisk, format and xcopy are
    > suitable alternative to modern tools such as PM, DriveImage and Ghost?


    For me they are.

    >
    > The DOS tools you mention are deprecated, inefficient, slow, and often
    > simply don't work for moving a bootable partition from one device to
    > another.


    Only fdisk and format are DOS-like tools. They are no inefficient. In
    fact they have no GUI or context-switching overhead so are more efficient.
    Anyhow xcopy32 is a win32 application.
    And they definitely can move a bootable partition from one
    device to another.

    >
    > Why would you want to spend all that time fdisking (and waiting for a
    > verify about 10 times), formatting, xcopying, etc, when you could just
    > spark up PM and drag and drop the partition?


    Because they free and you don't have to install anything or
    have Windows running.

    You can also do all of the above from Linux using similar tools.
     
    Harry, May 29, 2005
    #10
  11. Peter Huebner

    EMB Guest

    Harry wrote:
    > Peter Huebner wrote:
    >
    >
    >>I shall soon buy a big new harddrive to replace the 3 noisy small ones I
    >>am currently using.
    >>
    >>Tools I have currently are Partition Magic and DriveImage. OS is WinXP
    >>SP1.
    >>

    >
    >
    > The best tools to use are fdisk, format, and xcopy32.
    > Just make sure they are the patched versions that can
    > handle large disk partitions.
    >

    Assuming that he's not NTFS formatted his disks.

    --
    EMB
     
    EMB, May 29, 2005
    #11
  12. Peter Huebner

    GraB Guest

    On Sun, 29 May 2005 11:10:18 +1200, Peter Huebner
    <> wrote:

    >I shall soon buy a big new harddrive to replace the 3 noisy small ones I
    >am currently using.
    >
    >Tools I have currently are Partition Magic and DriveImage. OS is WinXP
    >SP1.
    >
    >So, if I purchase a SATA drive, would it be a problem to copy the
    >current partitions to the SATA drive and have it boot? I am just none
    >too sure if these programs would copy correct boot info. I've been
    >burned before, using a program called drivecopy or s.th. similar which
    >copied the drive and boot sector from one hdd to another all right
    >(sector copy), but the large drive ended up with a 2Gb partition,
    >bootable, instead of the 80 it should've had.
    >
    >Another of the possible issues that occurs to me is the driver one -
    >since you normally have to install a driver for SATA during WinXP
    >installation I am not sure if I would somehow need to slot one in for an
    >SATA drive to boot.
    >Having said that, XP seems to have no issues seeing one of my ide drives
    >that is connected to a SATA port via the Abit adapter gizmo.
    >
    >If the SATA would be a problem, I might be better off buying a slightly
    >cheaper IDE drive.


    I have had good success with Drive Image 2002 in Disk to Disk mode,
    with Win98SE.

    Would an adapter be as good as running it from a mobo SATA controller?
    If not, you might as well go for an IDE.
     
    GraB, May 29, 2005
    #12
  13. In article <>,
    says...
    >
    > Would an adapter be as good as running it from a mobo SATA controller?
    > If not, you might as well go for an IDE.
    >


    It IS running off the mobo sata controller. It's my mail drive, an old
    12 GB IDE, the Abit Gizmo plugs between the IDE interface on the
    harddrive and the SATA cable, and it is powered by a floppy drive
    connector in addition to the molex going into the hdd itself. So, to the
    mobo it _should_ look as though there was a SATA drive connected. Never
    asked for any special drivers; but I have no idea just what Abit put
    into that wee black box.

    ========

    So far I've seen one statement 'go SATA' and one 'stay away'. <Scratches
    head> The only two advantages I can really see to SATA are the cable for
    one and the native command language which, Seagate claims, improves data
    security and helps strengthen the file system. How much of those claims
    are/is true is beyond my event horizon at this stage since I simply
    haven't had enough experience of SATA drives to form any kind of
    informed/fact based opinion.

    Being a bit of a technology junky I am tempted to spend the few dollars
    extra; o.t.o.h. I always like to stay 10-20% away from the bleeding edge
    and wait for technology to ripen some before I put my dollars on the
    counter. :)

    -Peter
     
    Peter Huebner, May 29, 2005
    #13
  14. Peter Huebner

    Harry Guest

    Peter Huebner wrote:

    > So far I've seen one statement 'go SATA' and one 'stay away'. <Scratches
    > head> The only two advantages I can really see to SATA are the cable for
    > one and the native command language which, Seagate claims, improves data
    > security and helps strengthen the file system. How much of those claims
    > are/is true is beyond my event horizon at this stage since I simply
    > haven't had enough experience of SATA drives to form any kind of
    > informed/fact based opinion.


    I guess the biggest difference is that SATA is serial.
    It is easier to shield, and get better transmission characteristics from,
    a balanced pair of wires than from a bunch of parallel cables.

    Parallel cables, even with a ground plane or interlaced earth wires,
    are notoriously noise prone. Also, the ATA cabling has no parity line
    either so there is no error-checking on commands/status, nor is there
    any error-checking on the actual data. Unbelievably the disk sectors
    have ECC, and even memory can have parity, but there is nothing to
    safeguard data between the disk drive and the motherboard.
    This is despite the data having to travel over unbalanced wires
    in an environment full of high levels of EM radiation from motherboard,
    fans, power supply, etc.
     
    Harry, May 29, 2005
    #14
  15. Peter Huebner

    -=rjh=- Guest

    Harry wrote:
    > -=rjh=- wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Harry wrote:
    >>
    >>>Peter Huebner wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>I shall soon buy a big new harddrive to replace the 3 noisy small ones I
    >>>>am currently using.
    >>>>
    >>>>Tools I have currently are Partition Magic and DriveImage. OS is WinXP
    >>>>SP1.
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>The best tools to use are fdisk, format, and xcopy32.
    >>>Just make sure they are the patched versions that can
    >>>handle large disk partitions.
    >>>

    The worst tool to use is ms fdisk. One mistake can be lethal.

    I never recommend anybody use older versions of (MS) fdisk unless they
    know *exactly* what they are doing, because even though you'd think it
    only deals with partitions, for some reason (and AFAIK no other fdisk
    does this) it zeroes the data at the beginning of every partition it
    creates. So, even though you haven't formatted a partition, your old
    filesystem and data is hosed. Other fdisks I've used (even now, I'll
    still pull out my old OS/2 install disks to partition some drives)
    allows you to get back to your original state provided you haven't
    formatted anything, even after writing the partition table.

    I don't know if current fdisk versions exhibit this behaviour.
     
    -=rjh=-, May 29, 2005
    #15
  16. Peter Huebner

    Impossible Guest

    "Peter Huebner" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > In article <>,
    > says...
    >>


    > So far I've seen one statement 'go SATA' and one 'stay away'.
    > <Scratches
    > head> The only two advantages I can really see to SATA are the cable
    > for
    > one and the native command language which, Seagate claims, improves
    > data
    > security and helps strengthen the file system. How much of those
    > claims
    > are/is true is beyond my event horizon at this stage since I simply
    > haven't had enough experience of SATA drives to form any kind of
    > informed/fact based opinion.


    NCQ only comes into play if your motherboard supports NCQ. Does it?

    >
    > Being a bit of a technology junky I am tempted to spend the few
    > dollars
    > extra; o.t.o.h. I always like to stay 10-20% away from the bleeding
    > edge
    > and wait for technology to ripen some before I put my dollars on the
    > counter. :)
    >


    There's no performance difference at this point between SATA and PATA
    in an equivalent class of drives from any manufacturer that I know of.
    Your choice.
     
    Impossible, May 29, 2005
    #16
  17. On Sun, 29 May 2005 11:41:08 -0400, "Impossible"
    <> wrote:

    >"Peter Huebner" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> In article <>,
    >> says...
    >>>

    >
    >> So far I've seen one statement 'go SATA' and one 'stay away'.
    >> <Scratches
    >> head> The only two advantages I can really see to SATA are the cable
    >> for
    >> one and the native command language which, Seagate claims, improves
    >> data
    >> security and helps strengthen the file system. How much of those
    >> claims
    >> are/is true is beyond my event horizon at this stage since I simply
    >> haven't had enough experience of SATA drives to form any kind of
    >> informed/fact based opinion.

    >
    >NCQ only comes into play if your motherboard supports NCQ. Does it?
    >
    >>
    >> Being a bit of a technology junky I am tempted to spend the few
    >> dollars
    >> extra; o.t.o.h. I always like to stay 10-20% away from the bleeding
    >> edge
    >> and wait for technology to ripen some before I put my dollars on the
    >> counter. :)
    >>

    >
    >There's no performance difference at this point between SATA and PATA
    >in an equivalent class of drives from any manufacturer that I know of.
    >Your choice.


    Even the cheap motherboards come with it now
    Buy a new PC today and chances are it will have Sata hard drive
     
    FreedomChooser, May 30, 2005
    #17
  18. In article <>,
    says...
    >
    > NCQ only comes into play if your motherboard supports NCQ. Does it?
    >


    I blew a couple of hours searching for an answer to that question, and
    found absolutely nothing. So I posted it to
    alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit and the one chap who replied reckons the
    mobo is probably too old to have it.

    Frankly I don't know. I have recently flashed the latest bios and I
    noted that the Silicon Image onboard SATA controller had much improved
    performance after the update - so maybe yes, maybe no.

    Ah, I think I will probably go with the IDE since it sidesteps the
    driver issue as well.

    Shame, because I have very heavy drive multitasking at times and that
    seems to be one area where NCQ boosts the SATA over IDE. (No, I do NOT
    want to pay through the nose for scsi <g>).

    -Peter
     
    Peter Huebner, May 30, 2005
    #18
  19. In article <>,
    ess says...
    > Frankly I don't know. I have recently flashed the latest bios and I
    > noted that the Silicon Image onboard SATA controller had much improved
    > performance after the update - so maybe yes, maybe no.


    Found the information after all - on Seagate's website. Abit NF7-s does
    so have support for ncq, they say.

    Interesting documentation on SATA vs PATA on that site.

    Well, I'll have two weeks until I will make a decision either way -
    hoping to sell a truckload of bulls tomorrow which would see me
    financial in a fortnight ;-)

    -P.
     
    Peter Huebner, May 30, 2005
    #19
  20. Peter Huebner

    Impossible Guest

    "Peter Huebner" <> wrote in message
    news:...

    > In article <>,
    > ess says...


    >> Frankly I don't know. I have recently flashed the latest bios and I
    >> noted that the Silicon Image onboard SATA controller had much
    >> improved
    >> performance after the update - so maybe yes, maybe no.

    >
    > Found the information after all - on Seagate's website. Abit NF7-s
    > does
    > so have support for ncq, they say.


    I wouldn't be so sure about that. Personally, I like Seagate products,
    but it's in their interest to create the impression that more users
    can take advantage of NCQ than is really possible right now. Their
    "NCQ-compatible" page lists motherboards that support Serial ATA, not
    NCQ. Unless your motherboard -- and specifically your SATA
    controller -- supports NCQ, it's no-go, I'm afraid.
     
    Impossible, May 30, 2005
    #20
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    Bill in Co.
    Apr 9, 2008
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