Hard drive identy in System / Device Manager

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by GraB, Feb 2, 2005.

  1. GraB

    GraB Guest

    Win98SE, Quantum Fireball AS Plus 20.5Gig

    Was running this on Promise Ultra100 TX2 controller card but switched
    to mobo KT266a / XP2400+ controller which benchmarked faster, but
    later benchmark test showed slowdown. I found that where the hard
    drive had been correctly identified as the Fireball in Device Manager
    it was now identifying as Generic Type 47 drive.

    Is there a way to get it to identify the drive correctly again? This
    seems to affect its performance. I tried removing it and rebooting
    but it still identified as Generic and I tried re-installing the VIA
    drivers but that made no difference.
    GraB, Feb 2, 2005
    #1
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  2. GraB wrote:

    > Win98SE, Quantum Fireball AS Plus 20.5Gig
    >
    > Was running this on Promise Ultra100 TX2 controller card but switched
    > to mobo KT266a / XP2400+ controller which benchmarked faster, but
    > later benchmark test showed slowdown. I found that where the hard
    > drive had been correctly identified as the Fireball in Device Manager
    > it was now identifying as Generic Type 47 drive.
    >
    > Is there a way to get it to identify the drive correctly again? This
    > seems to affect its performance. I tried removing it and rebooting
    > but it still identified as Generic and I tried re-installing the VIA
    > drivers but that made no difference.


    It is probably grabbing that identification from the controller... it
    may have detected it incorrectly.
    Dave - Dave.net.nz, Feb 2, 2005
    #2
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  3. GraB

    thing Guest

    Dave - Dave.net.nz wrote:
    > GraB wrote:
    >
    >> Win98SE, Quantum Fireball AS Plus 20.5Gig
    >>
    >> Was running this on Promise Ultra100 TX2 controller card but switched
    >> to mobo KT266a / XP2400+ controller which benchmarked faster, but
    >> later benchmark test showed slowdown. I found that where the hard
    >> drive had been correctly identified as the Fireball in Device Manager
    >> it was now identifying as Generic Type 47 drive.
    >>
    >> Is there a way to get it to identify the drive correctly again? This
    >> seems to affect its performance. I tried removing it and rebooting
    >> but it still identified as Generic and I tried re-installing the VIA
    >> drivers but that made no difference.

    >
    >
    > It is probably grabbing that identification from the controller... it
    > may have detected it incorrectly.



    I think from memory type 47 is the generic one, ie auto detect so it is
    correct I think.

    Check in the bios that the drive is not locked into running in mode 4 or
    something silly like that.

    Make sure smart is enabled. Hard drives in trouble often slow down, it
    maybe that the disk is having issues, smart should detect it during
    boot, look for bad messages.

    During boot you should see a message saying what mode the hd will run in
    when it is detected. use pause/break and enter to stop and inspect the
    boot up messages as needed.

    When you swapped the drive, did you also swap the hd cable? is it a
    80pin cable or a 40 pin? ie the wrong type.

    Make sure the cable is fully into the hd and motherboard sockets.

    Hd Cable maybe damaged faulty, swap another one in.

    Look in XP for a problem with the hd driver, if it says dos compatible
    due to issues then the problem is in XP.

    Look for an updated motherboard driver to add into XP. eg if its VIA
    they had issues on some boards, but get the latest anyway (running
    windowsupdate might do this for you).

    regards

    Thing
    thing, Feb 2, 2005
    #3
  4. GraB

    thing Guest

    oops win98 drivers....

    maybe the OS is to old for the m/board?

    regards

    Thing

    thing wrote:
    > Dave - Dave.net.nz wrote:
    >
    >> GraB wrote:
    >>
    >>> Win98SE, Quantum Fireball AS Plus 20.5Gig
    >>>
    >>> Was running this on Promise Ultra100 TX2 controller card but switched
    >>> to mobo KT266a / XP2400+ controller which benchmarked faster, but
    >>> later benchmark test showed slowdown. I found that where the hard
    >>> drive had been correctly identified as the Fireball in Device Manager
    >>> it was now identifying as Generic Type 47 drive.
    >>>
    >>> Is there a way to get it to identify the drive correctly again? This
    >>> seems to affect its performance. I tried removing it and rebooting
    >>> but it still identified as Generic and I tried re-installing the VIA
    >>> drivers but that made no difference.

    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> It is probably grabbing that identification from the controller... it
    >> may have detected it incorrectly.

    >
    >
    >
    > I think from memory type 47 is the generic one, ie auto detect so it is
    > correct I think.
    >
    > Check in the bios that the drive is not locked into running in mode 4 or
    > something silly like that.
    >
    > Make sure smart is enabled. Hard drives in trouble often slow down, it
    > maybe that the disk is having issues, smart should detect it during
    > boot, look for bad messages.
    >
    > During boot you should see a message saying what mode the hd will run in
    > when it is detected. use pause/break and enter to stop and inspect the
    > boot up messages as needed.
    >
    > When you swapped the drive, did you also swap the hd cable? is it a
    > 80pin cable or a 40 pin? ie the wrong type.
    >
    > Make sure the cable is fully into the hd and motherboard sockets.
    >
    > Hd Cable maybe damaged faulty, swap another one in.
    >
    > Look in XP for a problem with the hd driver, if it says dos compatible
    > due to issues then the problem is in XP.
    >
    > Look for an updated motherboard driver to add into XP. eg if its VIA
    > they had issues on some boards, but get the latest anyway (running
    > windowsupdate might do this for you).
    >
    > regards
    >
    > Thing
    thing, Feb 2, 2005
    #4
  5. GraB

    froggy Guest

    On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 10:49:32 +1300, thing wrote:

    > oops win98 drivers....
    >
    > maybe the OS is to old for the m/board?
    >
    > regards
    >
    > Thing
    >
    > thing wrote:
    >> Dave - Dave.net.nz wrote:
    >>
    >>> GraB wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Win98SE, Quantum Fireball AS Plus 20.5Gig
    >>>>
    >>>> Was running this on Promise Ultra100 TX2 controller card but switched
    >>>> to mobo KT266a / XP2400+ controller which benchmarked faster, but
    >>>> later benchmark test showed slowdown. I found that where the hard
    >>>> drive had been correctly identified as the Fireball in Device Manager
    >>>> it was now identifying as Generic Type 47 drive.
    >>>>
    >>>> Is there a way to get it to identify the drive correctly again? This
    >>>> seems to affect its performance. I tried removing it and rebooting
    >>>> but it still identified as Generic and I tried re-installing the VIA
    >>>> drivers but that made no difference.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> It is probably grabbing that identification from the controller... it
    >>> may have detected it incorrectly.

    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> I think from memory type 47 is the generic one, ie auto detect so it is
    >> correct I think.
    >>
    >> Check in the bios that the drive is not locked into running in mode 4 or
    >> something silly like that.
    >>
    >> Make sure smart is enabled. Hard drives in trouble often slow down, it
    >> maybe that the disk is having issues, smart should detect it during
    >> boot, look for bad messages.
    >>
    >> During boot you should see a message saying what mode the hd will run in
    >> when it is detected. use pause/break and enter to stop and inspect the
    >> boot up messages as needed.
    >>
    >> When you swapped the drive, did you also swap the hd cable? is it a
    >> 80pin cable or a 40 pin? ie the wrong type.
    >>
    >> Make sure the cable is fully into the hd and motherboard sockets.
    >>
    >> Hd Cable maybe damaged faulty, swap another one in.
    >>
    >> Look in XP for a problem with the hd driver, if it says dos compatible
    >> due to issues then the problem is in XP.
    >>
    >> Look for an updated motherboard driver to add into XP. eg if its VIA
    >> they had issues on some boards, but get the latest anyway (running
    >> windowsupdate might do this for you).
    >>
    >> regards
    >>
    >> Thing

    <my wild guess for the day>

    checked for bios updates?

    </my wild guess for the day>
    froggy, Feb 2, 2005
    #5
  6. GraB

    thing Guest

    froggy wrote:
    > On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 10:49:32 +1300, thing wrote:
    >
    >
    >>oops win98 drivers....
    >>
    >>maybe the OS is to old for the m/board?
    >>
    >>regards
    >>
    >>Thing
    >>
    >>thing wrote:
    >>
    >>>Dave - Dave.net.nz wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>GraB wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>>Win98SE, Quantum Fireball AS Plus 20.5Gig
    >>>>>
    >>>>>Was running this on Promise Ultra100 TX2 controller card but switched
    >>>>>to mobo KT266a / XP2400+ controller which benchmarked faster, but
    >>>>>later benchmark test showed slowdown. I found that where the hard
    >>>>>drive had been correctly identified as the Fireball in Device Manager
    >>>>>it was now identifying as Generic Type 47 drive.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>Is there a way to get it to identify the drive correctly again? This
    >>>>>seems to affect its performance. I tried removing it and rebooting
    >>>>>but it still identified as Generic and I tried re-installing the VIA
    >>>>>drivers but that made no difference.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>It is probably grabbing that identification from the controller... it
    >>>>may have detected it incorrectly.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>I think from memory type 47 is the generic one, ie auto detect so it is
    >>>correct I think.
    >>>
    >>>Check in the bios that the drive is not locked into running in mode 4 or
    >>>something silly like that.
    >>>
    >>>Make sure smart is enabled. Hard drives in trouble often slow down, it
    >>>maybe that the disk is having issues, smart should detect it during
    >>>boot, look for bad messages.
    >>>
    >>>During boot you should see a message saying what mode the hd will run in
    >>>when it is detected. use pause/break and enter to stop and inspect the
    >>>boot up messages as needed.
    >>>
    >>>When you swapped the drive, did you also swap the hd cable? is it a
    >>>80pin cable or a 40 pin? ie the wrong type.
    >>>
    >>>Make sure the cable is fully into the hd and motherboard sockets.
    >>>
    >>>Hd Cable maybe damaged faulty, swap another one in.
    >>>
    >>>Look in XP for a problem with the hd driver, if it says dos compatible
    >>>due to issues then the problem is in XP.
    >>>
    >>>Look for an updated motherboard driver to add into XP. eg if its VIA
    >>>they had issues on some boards, but get the latest anyway (running
    >>>windowsupdate might do this for you).
    >>>
    >>>regards
    >>>
    >>>Thing

    >
    > <my wild guess for the day>
    >
    > checked for bios updates?
    >
    > </my wild guess for the day>


    ah, yes missed that one (sorta) I dont thnk its that likely as its not a
    brand new drive (say 200 gig or something) going into an old m/board,
    but worth checking.

    Having had bios updates stuff m/boards it is something I am reluctant to
    do without obvious need. a new $30US bios chip does not make my day.

    regards

    thing
    thing, Feb 2, 2005
    #6
  7. GraB

    GraB Guest

    On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 09:53:07 +1300, GraB <> wrote:

    >Win98SE, Quantum Fireball AS Plus 20.5Gig
    >
    >Was running this on Promise Ultra100 TX2 controller card but switched
    >to mobo KT266a / XP2400+ controller which benchmarked faster, but
    >later benchmark test showed slowdown. I found that where the hard
    >drive had been correctly identified as the Fireball in Device Manager
    >it was now identifying as Generic Type 47 drive.
    >
    >Is there a way to get it to identify the drive correctly again? This
    >seems to affect its performance. I tried removing it and rebooting
    >but it still identified as Generic and I tried re-installing the VIA
    >drivers but that made no difference.


    Re-ran the benchmark today, rebooting with a lot of stuff disabled and
    this time the score was the best, so perhaps I am not getting a
    slowdown as thought. In Sisoft Sandra the score between running it on
    the controller card or the mobo controller were: - Buffered Read:
    62MB/s - 76MB/s, Buffered Write 30MB/s - 76MB/s, so it seems it runs
    faster on the mobo. When I ran the same controller card on the old
    K6-2/550 it seriously improved things but the mobo controller with
    XP2400 behind it must be better.
    GraB, Feb 3, 2005
    #7
  8. GraB

    Adder Guest

    In article <> in nz.comp on Thu, 03 Feb 2005
    10:44:34 +1300, thing <> says...
    > Dave - Dave.net.nz wrote:
    > > GraB wrote:
    > >
    > >> Win98SE, Quantum Fireball AS Plus 20.5Gig
    > >>
    > >> Was running this on Promise Ultra100 TX2 controller card but switched
    > >> to mobo KT266a / XP2400+ controller which benchmarked faster, but
    > >> later benchmark test showed slowdown. I found that where the hard
    > >> drive had been correctly identified as the Fireball in Device Manager
    > >> it was now identifying as Generic Type 47 drive.
    > >>
    > >> Is there a way to get it to identify the drive correctly again? This
    > >> seems to affect its performance. I tried removing it and rebooting
    > >> but it still identified as Generic and I tried re-installing the VIA
    > >> drivers but that made no difference.

    > >
    > >
    > > It is probably grabbing that identification from the controller... it
    > > may have detected it incorrectly.

    >
    >
    > I think from memory type 47 is the generic one, ie auto detect so it is
    > correct I think.
    >
    > Check in the bios that the drive is not locked into running in mode 4 or
    > something silly like that.
    >
    > Make sure smart is enabled. Hard drives in trouble often slow down, it
    > maybe that the disk is having issues, smart should detect it during
    > boot, look for bad messages.
    >
    > During boot you should see a message saying what mode the hd will run in
    > when it is detected. use pause/break and enter to stop and inspect the
    > boot up messages as needed.
    >
    > When you swapped the drive, did you also swap the hd cable? is it a
    > 80pin cable or a 40 pin? ie the wrong type.
    >
    > Make sure the cable is fully into the hd and motherboard sockets.
    >
    > Hd Cable maybe damaged faulty, swap another one in.
    >
    > Look in XP for a problem with the hd driver, if it says dos compatible
    > due to issues then the problem is in XP.
    >
    > Look for an updated motherboard driver to add into XP. eg if its VIA
    > they had issues on some boards, but get the latest anyway (running
    > windowsupdate might do this for you).



    Interesting i turned a machine lon the other days and auotmatic updates
    offered to install a Unichrome driver update for a Via chipset board from
    Windows update
    Adder, Feb 3, 2005
    #8
  9. GraB

    Gavin Tunney Guest

    On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 09:53:07 +1300, GraB <> wrote:

    >Win98SE, Quantum Fireball AS Plus 20.5Gig
    >
    >Was running this on Promise Ultra100 TX2 controller card but switched
    >to mobo KT266a / XP2400+ controller which benchmarked faster, but
    >later benchmark test showed slowdown. I found that where the hard
    >drive had been correctly identified as the Fireball in Device Manager
    >it was now identifying as Generic Type 47 drive.
    >
    >Is there a way to get it to identify the drive correctly again? This
    >seems to affect its performance. I tried removing it and rebooting
    >but it still identified as Generic and I tried re-installing the VIA
    >drivers but that made no difference.


    I always enjoyed encountering these types of problems on jobs, there's
    enough clues to use the grey matter & you can usually work out where
    the problem is without being parked on yer arse for an hour watching
    the hourglass while Windows reboots for the umpteenth time.

    Some tips to track down the problem...........

    Windows 98 can access the hard disk in two ways, through the BIOS
    using calls on software interrupt13 or through direct access to the
    port the controller is on.

    Interrupt13 is a uniform standard, all OSs can use it because the BIOS
    does all the work. It's also slower than direct disk access, there's
    more steps involved & the BIOS itself is slower unless shadowed in
    RAM. Not sure how it is these days but it used to be mainly 16bit code
    too.

    For the OS to use direct disk access it has to know how to communicate
    with the IDE controller the disk is attached to. IDE controllers are
    not a universal standard so Windows needs the correct drivers
    installed before it can talk to the disk direct.

    When Windows uses direct access it sends an 'identify device' command
    to the IDE devices attached to the controller. Hard disks reply to
    that command with a string of data (512bytes IIRC) containing all the
    relevant details of the drive - capacity, drive identifier, disk
    geometry, performance capability etc. Seeing the disk identified by
    name in Device Manager is a sign that Windows is using direct access,
    because when it's using Int13 calls it gets the info from the drive
    type reported by the BIOS, ie Type 47.

    A reasonable conclusion is that Windows is using the BIOS for disk
    access, because it reports the drive as type 47 & it's also running
    slower. That suggests it's disabled 32bit disk access, that there is a
    problem with the IDE drivers, there may be a boot sector virus or
    there could be other issues like a faulty CDRom or non-compatible
    device attached to the controller that's stopping Windows using full
    32bit access.

    Going by the history posted above I'd probably look at a conflict
    caused by the Promise drivers, invalid registry setting perhaps, and
    look at reinstalling the original chipset drivers. You can remove
    references to old drivers by deleting the drvdata.bin and drvidx.bin
    files in the Windows\INF folder, and then looking for the *.inf files
    for the VIA and Promise chipsets in that folder (or sub folder) and
    deleting/renaming them. Start up in safe mode & remove the IDE
    controllers from Device manager, reboot & Windows will ask for drivers
    rather than trying to reinstall the original ones.

    Scanreg /restore may also get you going as a quick fix, if it was
    working ok before. It probably is a registry setting.

    Cheers

    Gavin
    Gavin Tunney, Feb 3, 2005
    #9
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