Gull diving for clam

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by me, Mar 12, 2011.

  1. me

    me Guest

    me, Mar 12, 2011
    #1
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  2. me

    me Guest

    On Sat, 12 Mar 2011 11:06:12 -0800, Savageduck
    <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:

    >On 2011-03-12 11:02:23 -0800, me <> said:
    >
    >> http://edwardgruf.com/2011-03-12_gull_diving/
    >>
    >> Gull diving for a clam breakfast this morning.

    >
    >Somehow I don't think it was a clam the bird was after.


    Not sure why you would think that. This was the third sequence of this
    gull diving. The closed road into a picnic area paralleling the shore
    is littered with shells now when the pickings get tough. River water
    temp is below 50F, so not many fish around to eat.

    >Nice capture series.


    Thanks.
     
    me, Mar 12, 2011
    #2
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  3. me

    me Guest

    On Sat, 12 Mar 2011 13:30:55 -0600, LOL! <> wrote:


    >shots. Now try the same with 2 times that focal-length. With practice you
    >can fill the frame with just the bird and splashes. Photographing birds
    >diving into water takes its own bit of expertise. While following and
    >panning with the bird you have to learn to instinctively and abruptly stop
    >the camera at the water's surface, rather than following the motion through
    >smoothly. Abruptly stopping the camera where the bird hits the water.


    Tells you what you think you know, they are not full frame shots.
    What f.l. do you think these are?
     
    me, Mar 12, 2011
    #3
  4. me

    J. Clarke Guest

    In article <2011031211310111272-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom>,
    savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com says...
    >
    > On 2011-03-12 11:13:35 -0800, me <> said:
    >
    > > On Sat, 12 Mar 2011 11:06:12 -0800, Savageduck
    > > <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
    > >
    > >> On 2011-03-12 11:02:23 -0800, me <> said:
    > >>
    > >>> http://edwardgruf.com/2011-03-12_gull_diving/
    > >>>
    > >>> Gull diving for a clam breakfast this morning.
    > >>
    > >> Somehow I don't think it was a clam the bird was after.

    > >
    > > Not sure why you would think that. This was the third sequence of this
    > > gull diving. The closed road into a picnic area paralleling the shore
    > > is littered with shells now when the pickings get tough. River water
    > > temp is below 50F, so not many fish around to eat.
    > >
    > >> Nice capture series.

    > >
    > > Thanks.

    >
    >
    >
    > Why would you think that those shells were the result of gulls having
    > picked clams from a dive?
    > You have made a presumption that it is a clam the bird is after.
    > If anything the gull is diving on bait fish, shrimp, or some other
    > crustacean which does not bury itself in sand or silt.
    > I would expect a shorebird capturing a clam to have dug it from exposed
    > tidal flat or shoreline. To the best of my knowledge there are not too
    > many birds prepared to jamb their bills into sand from a dive, or free
    > swimming clams for the bird to dive on.


    OK, since according to you it's not a clam, what _is_ that object the
    gull is holding in the last three frames of the sequence?
     
    J. Clarke, Mar 12, 2011
    #4
  5. me

    me Guest

    On Sat, 12 Mar 2011 13:57:21 -0600, LOL! <> wrote:

    >On Sat, 12 Mar 2011 14:47:33 -0500, me <> wrote:
    >
    >>On Sat, 12 Mar 2011 13:30:55 -0600, LOL! <> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>shots. Now try the same with 2 times that focal-length. With practice you
    >>>can fill the frame with just the bird and splashes. Photographing birds
    >>>diving into water takes its own bit of expertise. While following and
    >>>panning with the bird you have to learn to instinctively and abruptly stop
    >>>the camera at the water's surface, rather than following the motion through
    >>>smoothly. Abruptly stopping the camera where the bird hits the water.

    >>
    >>Tells you what you think you know, they are not full frame shots.
    >>What f.l. do you think these are?

    >
    >Since the EXIF info is missing from them (they are not protected from being
    >downloaded and checked, even though it might appear that way to you)
    >there's no way to tell without that embedded information. If these are
    >tight crops then you're a much worse nature-photographer than I thought you
    >were to begin with, and in dire need of much much more practice. That's
    >more than anyone needs to know at this point.
    >
    >I guess you shouldn't have admitted that, eh?
    >


    Admitted what, that I baited and reeled you in?
    I just happen to use a skin of JAlbum that strips exif. I have no
    illusion the posted image can't be seen, as is for any image posted to
    the 'net.

    Still waiting to get your guess as to the f.l, of the photos posted.
     
    me, Mar 12, 2011
    #5
  6. me

    me Guest

    On Sat, 12 Mar 2011 14:09:49 -0600, LOL! <> wrote:

    >On Sat, 12 Mar 2011 14:47:33 -0500, me <> wrote:
    >
    >>On Sat, 12 Mar 2011 13:30:55 -0600, LOL! <> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>shots. Now try the same with 2 times that focal-length. With practice you
    >>>can fill the frame with just the bird and splashes. Photographing birds
    >>>diving into water takes its own bit of expertise. While following and
    >>>panning with the bird you have to learn to instinctively and abruptly stop
    >>>the camera at the water's surface, rather than following the motion through
    >>>smoothly. Abruptly stopping the camera where the bird hits the water.

    >>
    >>Tells you what you think you know, they are not full frame shots.
    >>What f.l. do you think these are?

    >
    >p.s. Remind me to never share any of my valuable and expert
    >nature-photography techniques with you ever again. I've already learned to
    >not do that with most of the rest in these newsgroups. You've just been
    >added to the ever-growing list of MORONS.


    Couldn't think of that in your first reply?

    To quote Bugs, "What a maroon!"
     
    me, Mar 12, 2011
    #6
  7. me

    me Guest

    On Sat, 12 Mar 2011 14:35:14 -0600, LOL! <> wrote:

    >On Sat, 12 Mar 2011 15:30:22 -0500, me <> wrote:
    >
    >>
    >>Still waiting to get your guess as to the f.l, of the photos posted.

    >
    >Yep, you truly ARE a moron. That can't be deduced from the photo and
    >subject alone. But then, you'd know this ... IF YOU WEREN'T SUCH A PATHETIC
    >MORON. Going to prove it yet again?


    Than why did you originally reply :

    On Sat, 12 Mar 2011 13:30:55 -0600, LOL! <> wrote:
    >shots. Now try the same with 2 times that focal-length. With practice you
    >can fill the frame with just the bird and splashes.


    Seems you thought you had some idea to f.l., no?
    If not this original statement of yours is BS as you then had no idea
    if such an f.l. is even possible,
     
    me, Mar 12, 2011
    #7
  8. me

    tony cooper Guest

    On Sat, 12 Mar 2011 15:20:10 -0500, "J. Clarke"
    <> wrote:

    >In article <2011031211310111272-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom>,
    >savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com says...
    >>
    >> On 2011-03-12 11:13:35 -0800, me <> said:
    >>
    >> > On Sat, 12 Mar 2011 11:06:12 -0800, Savageduck
    >> > <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
    >> >
    >> >> On 2011-03-12 11:02:23 -0800, me <> said:
    >> >>
    >> >>> http://edwardgruf.com/2011-03-12_gull_diving/
    >> >>>
    >> >>> Gull diving for a clam breakfast this morning.
    >> >>
    >> >> Somehow I don't think it was a clam the bird was after.
    >> >
    >> > Not sure why you would think that. This was the third sequence of this
    >> > gull diving. The closed road into a picnic area paralleling the shore
    >> > is littered with shells now when the pickings get tough. River water
    >> > temp is below 50F, so not many fish around to eat.
    >> >
    >> >> Nice capture series.
    >> >
    >> > Thanks.

    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> Why would you think that those shells were the result of gulls having
    >> picked clams from a dive?
    >> You have made a presumption that it is a clam the bird is after.
    >> If anything the gull is diving on bait fish, shrimp, or some other
    >> crustacean which does not bury itself in sand or silt.
    >> I would expect a shorebird capturing a clam to have dug it from exposed
    >> tidal flat or shoreline. To the best of my knowledge there are not too
    >> many birds prepared to jamb their bills into sand from a dive, or free
    >> swimming clams for the bird to dive on.

    >
    >OK, since according to you it's not a clam, what _is_ that object the
    >gull is holding in the last three frames of the sequence?


    It certainly seems to be clam, but the Duck's comment was about what
    the bird was diving *for*, not what he came up with. Except for their
    phenomenal ability to target people when pooping, gulls are not
    particularly bright birds. They'll grab whatever they end up spearing
    with their dive, but I don't think they go clam diving.

    Good set of images, though. Too bad the review settled on the gull's
    intent, and not the photographer's eye.


    --
    Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
     
    tony cooper, Mar 12, 2011
    #8
  9. me

    me Guest

    On Sat, 12 Mar 2011 14:03:56 -0800, Savageduck
    <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:


    >Agreed. I don't believe gulls are natural clam hunters.


    Then you are wrong. This is the yearly occurrence here.in VA and
    elsewhere on the eastern shore. I've seen it given all the residue on
    the boardwalks around the Assateague Island Md national park.
     
    me, Mar 12, 2011
    #9
  10. me

    Rich Guest

    On Mar 12, 2:20 pm, LOL! <> wrote:
    > On Sat, 12 Mar 2011 11:06:12 -0800, DaffyDuck
    >
    > <daffyduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
    > >On 2011-03-12 11:02:23 -0800, me <> said:

    >
    > >>http://edwardgruf.com/2011-03-12_gull_diving/

    >
    > >> Gull diving for a clam breakfast this morning.

    >
    > >Somehow I don't think it was a clam the bird was after.

    >
    > Just like all of your comments and thought processes. You make your
    > ASSessments with only 1/100th of the information you actually require, and
    > as usual, end-up being 100% WRONG. Just more proof of your observation
    > skills, both in taking photos as well in what you think are good ones of
    > yours (and others).
    >
    > Tighten those blinders of self-induced-ignorance some more to retain your
    > bliss of ignorance, born from those deep insecurities you bear. I don't
    > think your blinders left a deep enough scar on your pointy little head yet.
    > Though they sure do leave a deep enough impact in every last one of your
    > useless crapshots!
    >
    > LOL!


    I sure wouldn't have wanted to tackle that series of shots with a
    Superzoom P&S!!!
     
    Rich, Mar 13, 2011
    #10
  11. me

    PeterN Guest

    On 3/12/2011 5:29 PM, Savageduck wrote:
    > On 2011-03-12 14:15:18 -0800, me said:
    >
    >> On Sat, 12 Mar 2011 14:03:56 -0800, Savageduck
    >> <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>> Agreed. I don't believe gulls are natural clam hunters.

    >>
    >> Then you are wrong. This is the yearly occurrence here.in VA and
    >> elsewhere on the eastern shore. I've seen it given all the residue on
    >> the boardwalks around the Assateague Island Md national park.

    >
    > Maybe so for MD gulls and clams.
    > However clams don't seem to be a big part of gull diet out here on the
    > California Central Coast. Around here you won't find too many clams
    > swimming around in the surf. Other shore birds take a stronger interest
    > in digging them out.
    > Not even at Pismo. (Though the clam population has been considerably
    > reduced at Pismo Beach in recent years due to that other predator, man.)
    >


    You are almost correct, clams don't swim very fast once they have past
    the larval [sic] stage. However, they do travel.

    <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_coXZq05xY>

    Around here, on the Isle of Long and I suspect other shore
    communities, surf action dislodges them from the bottom. BTW I have seen
    scallops swimming.



    --
    Peter
     
    PeterN, Mar 13, 2011
    #11
  12. me

    otter Guest

    otter, Mar 13, 2011
    #12
  13. me

    me Guest

    On Sat, 12 Mar 2011 14:29:22 -0800, Savageduck
    <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:

    >On 2011-03-12 14:15:18 -0800, me said:
    >
    >> On Sat, 12 Mar 2011 14:03:56 -0800, Savageduck
    >> <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>> Agreed. I don't believe gulls are natural clam hunters.

    >>
    >> Then you are wrong. This is the yearly occurrence here.in VA and
    >> elsewhere on the eastern shore. I've seen it given all the residue on
    >> the boardwalks around the Assateague Island Md national park.

    >
    >Maybe so for MD gulls and clams.
    >However clams don't seem to be a big part of gull diet out here on the
    >California Central Coast. Around here you won't find too many clams
    >swimming around in the surf. Other shore birds take a stronger interest
    >in digging them out.
    >Not even at Pismo. (Though the clam population has been considerably
    >reduced at Pismo Beach in recent years due to that other predator, man.)


    VA not MD. But, I think the operative here is not swimming, but that
    the clams on the shoreline have been eaten by this point and the birds
    are diving at low tide to find those further into the surf line. As I
    said this bird in this particular instance took three dives to
    retrieve this one as I witnessed. Could have been more as I walked
    down the shore with the dog early in the morning and came upon this.
     
    me, Mar 14, 2011
    #13
  14. me

    Peter N Guest

    On Tue, 15 Mar 2011 16:23:55 +1300, Eric Stevens
    <> wrote:
    > On Sat, 12 Mar 2011 15:16:57 -0600, LOL! <> wrote:



    > >On Sat, 12 Mar 2011 16:01:31 -0500, me <> wrote:
    > >
    > >>On Sat, 12 Mar 2011 14:35:14 -0600, LOL! <>

    wrote:
    > >>
    > >>>On Sat, 12 Mar 2011 15:30:22 -0500, me <> wrote:
    > >>>
    > >>>>
    > >>>>Still waiting to get your guess as to the f.l, of the photos

    posted.
    > >>>
    > >>>Yep, you truly ARE a moron. That can't be deduced from the photo

    and
    > >>>subject alone. But then, you'd know this ... IF YOU WEREN'T SUCH

    A PATHETIC
    > >>>MORON. Going to prove it yet again?
    > >>
    > >>Than why did you originally reply :
    > >>
    > >>On Sat, 12 Mar 2011 13:30:55 -0600, LOL! <>

    wrote:
    > >>>shots. Now try the same with 2 times that focal-length. With

    practice you
    > >>>can fill the frame with just the bird and splashes.
    > >>
    > >>Seems you thought you had some idea to f.l., no?
    > >>If not this original statement of yours is BS as you then had no

    idea
    > >>if such an f.l. is even possible,

    > >
    > >I shoot birds in-flight with f.l.s up to 1600mm (sometimes more).



    > Real mm's or something much less in your shrunken superzoom world?



    > Come on, show us your depth of focus: I dare you.



    > >I presume
    > >you do know that lenses go that high? (and higher) I suggested

    2x's the
    > >length you were using to get rid of the 1/2 of the frame that is

    just
    > >useless space, adding nothing to, and detracting from the subject

    itself.
    > >That's how I know that you should try 2x's as much as you were

    using. 2X's
    > >is relative to whatever f.l. you were using at the time. I did not

    need to
    > >know what f.l. you were using other than it wasn't enough. Get it?

    YOU
    > >MORON.
    > >
    > >I'd tell you what to do if you are unable to attain the

    focal-lengths
    > >needed, but then that would be teaching you something. Teaching you
    > >anything is now clearly a waste of anyone's time.
    > >

    > Poor litle twerp.



    Is it fair to say his images aren't worth a tweet

    --
    from my Droid
     
    Peter N, Mar 15, 2011
    #14
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