Grey Balancer Software for 2200 ?

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Cliff Spicer, Jul 22, 2003.

  1. Cliff Spicer

    Cliff Spicer Guest

    Hello,

    For those who have used the Grey Balancer software for their 2200 was it
    worth the work, how long did it take to get it right and are the results
    that much better than a good profile?

    Thanks,

    Cliff
    Cliff Spicer, Jul 22, 2003
    #1
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  2. Cliff Spicer

    Bill Hilton Guest

    >From: "Cliff Spicer"

    >For those who have used the Grey Balancer software for their 2200 ...


    Hey Cliff, did you get your custom profile for the 2200 back yet? And if so,
    how much better is it than the canned ones from Lepp or Epson?

    Bill
    Bill Hilton, Jul 22, 2003
    #2
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  3. Cliff Spicer

    Cliff Spicer Guest

    > Hey Cliff, did you get your custom profile for the 2200 back yet? And if
    so,
    > how much better is it than the canned ones from Lepp or Epson?
    >
    > Bill
    >

    Hi Bill,

    I did get it back and was really disappointed. The highlights were blown
    out, there was terrible tonal graduation and I found it had too much blue or
    cyan (can't tell the difference). I emailed the person who made it and they
    are on holidays so I'll keep you updated. I suspect it was either a really
    rushed job before the vacation or someone less experienced did it. I am not
    writing them off but $200 is out of my account and I am still using Epson's
    profile.

    Cliff
    Cliff Spicer, Jul 22, 2003
    #3
  4. Cliff Spicer

    Bill Hilton Guest

    >From: "Cliff Spicer"

    >For those who have used the Grey Balancer software for their 2200 was it
    >worth the work, how long did it take to get it right and are the results
    >that much better than a good profile?


    Cliff, I haven't bothered trying to find this since I don't do a lot of
    black/white, but here's a good write up on the topic by one of your fellow
    Canadians ...

    http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/printers/gray-balancer.shtml There
    are some other links at the bottom of that page.

    Sorry to hear about the custom profile problems ... did they give you exact
    instructions on how to set up the printer to use the profile? Usually that's
    the problem when they don't work ...

    Bill
    Bill Hilton, Jul 22, 2003
    #4
  5. Cliff Spicer

    Warren Jones Guest

    Have either of you guys used the Lepp profile any any comments on it to
    share please?
    Warren

    > > how much better is it than the canned ones from Lepp or Epson?
    > >
    > > Bill
    > >

    > Hi Bill,
    >
    Warren Jones, Jul 22, 2003
    #5
  6. Cliff Spicer

    Bill Hilton Guest

    >From: "Warren Jones"

    >Have either of you guys used the Lepp profile any any comments on it to
    >share please?


    Yes, I downloaded the Lepp profiles when they were first available (they were
    pulled back, I think for copyright reasons; not sure if they're still up
    anywhere). I've printed the same test file on all 5 Epson papers supported by
    both profiles (the Lepp set didn't have a profile for the Water Color - Radiant
    White fine art paper) and also viewed the gamuts with ICC profile display
    software.

    Basically the Lepp files are about 10x larger (about 1 Mb each vs ~ 100K for
    the Epson files), implying they were created with a test file with more color
    samples. You'd expect them to be more accurate because of this since there are
    more points in the look-up tables, though in practice I didn't see any great
    differences.

    The ICC plots indicate the Lepp profiles have a slightly wider gamut,
    especially in the greens and yellows (depending on the paper).

    The prints of the test file I used didn't show any great discrepancies between
    the two except that light yellows in aspen trees were noticeably better on
    Semi-gloss with the Lepp profile.

    If you can find the Lepp versions they're worth downloading and trying out, but
    the Epson ones still did a good job on my printer. As Cliff and I discussed
    earlier, the 2200's are consumer grade printers and vary a bit from unit to
    unit so YMMV.

    Bill
    Bill Hilton, Jul 23, 2003
    #6
  7. Cliff Spicer

    Cliff Spicer Guest

    "Bill Hilton" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > >From: "Cliff Spicer"

    >
    > >For those who have used the Grey Balancer software for their 2200 ...

    >
    > Hey Cliff, did you get your custom profile for the 2200 back yet? And if

    so,
    > how much better is it than the canned ones from Lepp or Epson?
    >
    > Bill
    >

    Hi Bill,

    I received an e-mail from the fellow who was making my profile and I can
    only say how disappointed I was in it. It appears because he couldn't get a
    good profile he figures I must not be able to follow his instructions on how
    to set-up the printer driver and wants me to hire him to come in to my place
    for more $$ and have him do the exact same thing. So I didn't pay for the
    profile but I did spend $25 couriering him the target and couriering him
    samples of the poor results I got from his profile. Below is his message and
    I think has blown me off because he hopes for less discriminating types so I
    would not recommend those at www.colourmanagemt.ca

    Cliff, I am sorry to say that something has gone wrong. It is unusual

    for this to happen and without coming on site to check everything I

    cannot tell you what is wrong. I have created profiles for over 50,

    2200's and they are all much better than anything generic or Epson's

    supplied profiles. What we are seeing on the outputs you sent me is

    not characteristic of the custom profiles I create. I will tear up

    your check - you will not be charged and I am sorry that things did

    not work out. If you would like me to come on site I would be happy

    to. But honestly you have a decent profile from what I saw in the

    samples you sent me.



    Angus Pady
    Cliff Spicer, Jul 23, 2003
    #7
  8. Cliff Spicer

    Cliff Spicer Guest

    "Bob O`Bob" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Cliff Spicer wrote:
    >
    > > I received an e-mail from the fellow who was making my profile and I can
    > > only say how disappointed I was in it. It appears because he couldn't

    get a
    > > good profile he figures I must not be able to follow his instructions on

    how
    > > to set-up the printer driver and wants me to hire him to come in to my

    place
    > > for more $$ and have him do the exact same thing. So I didn't pay for

    the
    > > profile but I did spend $25 couriering him the target and couriering him
    > > samples of the poor results I got from his profile. Below is his message

    and
    > > I think has blown me off because he hopes for less discriminating types

    so I
    > > would not recommend

    >
    >
    > Actually, as an uninvolved party, I think your recommendation is weak,
    > but -even though you don't seem to know it- still positive.
    >
    > You show that he didn't keep your payment since you weren't satisfied.
    > That's mighty decent.
    >
    >
    > You post as if the investment of time and resources which he must have

    made
    > is immaterial. Yet you had the opportunity to test with a custom profile.
    > That it did not work for you is not proof of where the problem lies. Yes,

    he
    > may have been ineffective in creating a profile appropriate for your

    printer,
    > but that is only one of many possible interpretations. Whatever the

    original
    > agreed fee was, he invested proprotionately from his own time and

    resources,
    > and is willing to write that off because you weren't satisfied.
    >
    > That constitutes an unfortunate situation, but it's certainly no

    condemnation
    > of the vendor, nor the client. It's just an unfortunate situation, to

    which
    > the involved parties did not agree on further investment being warranted.
    >
    >
    > I hope that anyone considering such services will read the whole thread.
    >
    > Thanks for giving the complete story - I think that shows you're also

    aware
    > of your own possible bias, and more interested in getting the whole story

    out
    > than just grousing about the unfortunate situation.
    >
    >
    >
    > Bob


    Hi Bob,

    I completely disagree with your interpretation of the situation. What you
    are saying is the same as me going to photograph a couple's wedding with
    their impression that they are getting a professional, spending the day
    shooting it and not delivering what is promised. Even if I don't take the
    couple's money should they feel bad for the time I spent? I realize this is
    an exaggerated scenario but never the less as a professional I would go to
    great lengths to do what I could to see if I could do anything more such as
    shoot some portraits after the fact or whatever. I wouldn't just say,
    "sorry, the last 50 weddings worked out but for some reason yours didn't.
    Here is your money back." I believe that the fact the vendor did not make
    any attempt to rectify this problem is a weak business practice and
    demonstrates and the money being returned does not impress me in the same
    way. With that said, it is an interesting discussion and I appreciated the
    points you have raised.

    Cliff
    Cliff Spicer, Jul 23, 2003
    #8
  9. Cliff Spicer

    Cliff Spicer Guest

    "Cliff Spicer" <> wrote in message
    news:%xDTa.6861$...
    >
    > "Bob O`Bob" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > Cliff Spicer wrote:
    > >
    > > > I received an e-mail from the fellow who was making my profile and I

    can
    > > > only say how disappointed I was in it. It appears because he couldn't

    > get a
    > > > good profile he figures I must not be able to follow his instructions

    on
    > how
    > > > to set-up the printer driver and wants me to hire him to come in to my

    > place
    > > > for more $$ and have him do the exact same thing. So I didn't pay for

    > the
    > > > profile but I did spend $25 couriering him the target and couriering

    him
    > > > samples of the poor results I got from his profile. Below is his

    message
    > and
    > > > I think has blown me off because he hopes for less discriminating

    types
    > so I
    > > > would not recommend

    > >
    > >
    > > Actually, as an uninvolved party, I think your recommendation is weak,
    > > but -even though you don't seem to know it- still positive.
    > >
    > > You show that he didn't keep your payment since you weren't satisfied.
    > > That's mighty decent.
    > >
    > >
    > > You post as if the investment of time and resources which he must have

    > made
    > > is immaterial. Yet you had the opportunity to test with a custom

    profile.
    > > That it did not work for you is not proof of where the problem lies.

    Yes,
    > he
    > > may have been ineffective in creating a profile appropriate for your

    > printer,
    > > but that is only one of many possible interpretations. Whatever the

    > original
    > > agreed fee was, he invested proprotionately from his own time and

    > resources,
    > > and is willing to write that off because you weren't satisfied.
    > >
    > > That constitutes an unfortunate situation, but it's certainly no

    > condemnation
    > > of the vendor, nor the client. It's just an unfortunate situation, to

    > which
    > > the involved parties did not agree on further investment being

    warranted.
    > >
    > >
    > > I hope that anyone considering such services will read the whole thread.
    > >
    > > Thanks for giving the complete story - I think that shows you're also

    > aware
    > > of your own possible bias, and more interested in getting the whole

    story
    > out
    > > than just grousing about the unfortunate situation.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Bob

    >
    > Hi Bob,
    >
    > I completely disagree with your interpretation of the situation. What you
    > are saying is the same as me going to photograph a couple's wedding with
    > their impression that they are getting a professional, spending the day
    > shooting it and not delivering what is promised. Even if I don't take the
    > couple's money should they feel bad for the time I spent? I realize this

    is
    > an exaggerated scenario but never the less as a professional I would go to
    > great lengths to do what I could to see if I could do anything more such

    as
    > shoot some portraits after the fact or whatever. I wouldn't just say,
    > "sorry, the last 50 weddings worked out but for some reason yours didn't.
    > Here is your money back." I believe that the fact the vendor did not make
    > any attempt to rectify this problem is a weak business practice and
    > demonstrates and the money being returned does not impress me in the same
    > way. With that said, it is an interesting discussion and I appreciated the
    > points you have raised.
    >
    > Cliff
    >

    Hi John,

    Just wanted to let you know that the vendor sent me another message which I
    feel shows true professionalism. I will post it below. However, I find it
    interesting that he feels his custom profile may not be that much better
    than Epson's generic profile. I do appreciate his honesty and for this
    reason I would now recommend him and use him if I was profiling a unique
    paper.


    Cliff please don't get me wrong I am interested in making this work

    but the only option we have is to retry the procedure - and we

    certainly can do that if you would like. What I was trying to say was

    that the profile you have appears to be working very well and I am

    not sure you will see a significant improvement if we make a new

    profile. But please feel free to re-send the profile patches and I

    will generate a new profile and hopefully things will be better.

    Angus





    Thanks,



    Cliff
    Cliff Spicer, Jul 24, 2003
    #9
  10. Cliff Spicer

    Bob O`Bob Guest

    Cliff Spicer wrote:

    > I completely disagree with your interpretation of the situation. What you
    > are saying is the same as me going to photograph a couple's wedding with
    > their impression that they are getting a professional, spending the day
    > shooting it and not delivering what is promised. Even if I don't take the
    > couple's money should they feel bad for the time I spent? I realize this is
    > an exaggerated scenario but never the less as a professional I would go to
    > great lengths to do what I could to see if I could do anything more such as
    > shoot some portraits after the fact or whatever. I wouldn't just say,
    > "sorry, the last 50 weddings worked out but for some reason yours didn't.
    > Here is your money back." I believe that the fact the vendor did not make
    > any attempt to rectify this problem is a weak business practice and
    > demonstrates and the money being returned does not impress me in the same
    > way. With that said, it is an interesting discussion and I appreciated the
    > points you have raised.



    What did you lose, which in any way deserves even
    comparison to the loss of someone's wedding photos?

    You're making a totally inappropriate appeal
    to emotional effect, and it's backfiring.
    Bob O`Bob, Jul 24, 2003
    #10
  11. Cliff Spicer

    Cliff Spicer Guest

    "Bob O`Bob" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Cliff Spicer wrote:
    >
    > > I completely disagree with your interpretation of the situation. What

    you
    > > are saying is the same as me going to photograph a couple's wedding with
    > > their impression that they are getting a professional, spending the day
    > > shooting it and not delivering what is promised. Even if I don't take

    the
    > > couple's money should they feel bad for the time I spent? I realize this

    is
    > > an exaggerated scenario but never the less as a professional I would go

    to
    > > great lengths to do what I could to see if I could do anything more such

    as
    > > shoot some portraits after the fact or whatever. I wouldn't just say,
    > > "sorry, the last 50 weddings worked out but for some reason yours

    didn't.
    > > Here is your money back." I believe that the fact the vendor did not

    make
    > > any attempt to rectify this problem is a weak business practice and
    > > demonstrates and the money being returned does not impress me in the

    same
    > > way. With that said, it is an interesting discussion and I appreciated

    the
    > > points you have raised.

    >
    >
    > What did you lose, which in any way deserves even
    > comparison to the loss of someone's wedding photos?
    >
    > You're making a totally inappropriate appeal
    > to emotional effect, and it's backfiring.


    Disagree again Bob. It is not a question of what is lost but what are
    acceptable business practices. As I stated my example was a stretch but was
    meant to illustrate what a professional does to rectify a problem be it a
    doctor who has an unhappy patient or a garbage collector who has someone on
    their route who doesn't like the fact the cans are left upside down. The
    example is irrelevant and appears to have lost my point if you think I was
    going for emotion. My point is I am a professional and I have standards
    which I live up to whether I have an unhappy customer who doesn't like the
    crop on a print or an unhappy client I have shoot a once in a lifetime photo
    for. They both deserve a professional approach regardless of what is lost.

    Cliff
    Cliff Spicer, Jul 24, 2003
    #11
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