Gretag Macbeth Eye One Photo - what does it do?

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by nobody nowhere, Nov 13, 2003.

  1. What does this funny shaped device do? Does it measure the print itself?
    How does it fit into the ICC profiling exercise? Thanks in advance for
    any comments.

    Nobody
    nobody nowhere, Nov 13, 2003
    #1
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  2. nobody nowhere

    Flycaster Guest

    "nobody nowhere" <> wrote in message
    news:3UZNiUA+U8s$...
    > What does this funny shaped device do? Does it measure the print itself?
    > How does it fit into the ICC profiling exercise? Thanks in advance for
    > any comments.
    >
    > Nobody


    Basically, it makes highly accurate printer and monitor profiles, as well as
    measures spot colors: http://www.i1color.com/products/i1_photo.asp




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    Flycaster, Nov 13, 2003
    #2
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  3. Thanks.

    >> What does this funny shaped device do? Does it measure the print itself?
    >> How does it fit into the ICC profiling exercise? Thanks in advance for
    >> any comments.
    >>
    >> Nobody

    >
    >Basically, it makes highly accurate printer and monitor profiles, as well as
    >measures spot colors: http://www.i1color.com/products/i1_photo.asp
    >
    >
    >
    >
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    nobody
    nobody nowhere, Nov 13, 2003
    #3
  4. nobody nowhere

    Bill Hilton Guest

    >> What does this funny shaped device do?

    >From: "Flycaster"
    >
    >Basically, it makes highly accurate printer and monitor profiles


    Is this what you use to make your printer profiles, or are you stuck with a
    flatbed scanner for your poor man's spectrophotomer too? (like me)

    Bill
    Bill Hilton, Nov 14, 2003
    #4
  5. nobody nowhere

    Flycaster Guest

    "Bill Hilton" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > >> What does this funny shaped device do?

    >
    > >From: "Flycaster"
    > >
    > >Basically, it makes highly accurate printer and monitor profiles

    >
    > Is this what you use to make your printer profiles, or are you stuck with

    a
    > flatbed scanner for your poor man's spectrophotomer too? (like me)


    I do have Eye One Photo. Frankly, it's been one of the best investments I
    ever made. My monitor profile is spot on and while the profiles for my 2200
    aren't *perfect* (as you well know, however, none ever are), the screen
    proof-final print match is about as "dead on" as it gets. On two of my
    papers the resulting prints are *very* slightly cool, others on-the-money,
    and in all cases the contrast and density are nailed. The original software
    that came with it was buggy, but the latest up-date solved the problems, at
    least on my system (they, like others, had confilcts with the latest ATI
    Catalyst drivers.)

    I'm a happy camper, but I've also read lots of posts in the Yahoo 2200 group
    from folks who rave about their great results using some of the RIP packages
    as well. That'd be worth looking into, epsecially for B&W, which is still
    not up to snuff even using Eye One. I'm convinced you either have to go to
    a custom inkset or bypass the Epson driver to get good B&W from one of these
    units. To be sure, I've never bothered to download the Grey-Balancer, but
    I've read it isn't all that good either; it just hasn't been an issue since
    I have the 1280 set up for all B&W with a custom inkset.




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    Flycaster, Nov 14, 2003
    #5
  6. nobody nowhere

    Bill Hilton Guest

    >From: "Flycaster"

    > I do have Eye One Photo. Frankly, it's been one of the best investments
    > I ever made.


    How long does it take to read all the patches on an IT8 target, say one of the
    729 or 918 sample cards? Is the software smart enough to note you've missed a
    patch or otherwise lost your place temporarily?

    I was thinking of getting a mid-level spectrophotometer like this one but the
    idea of hand-measuring many hundreds of sample points was not appealing and I
    didn't want to spring for several thousand more bucks for one of the auto
    readers like the X-Rite.

    My Epson 4000 should arrive in January and if what they say about the profiles
    for the pro level models is true I hopefully won't need to do my own profiling,
    but just in case ...

    Thanks for the info.

    Bill
    Bill Hilton, Nov 14, 2003
    #6
  7. nobody nowhere

    Flycaster Guest

    "Bill Hilton" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > >From: "Flycaster"

    >
    > > I do have Eye One Photo. Frankly, it's been one of the best investments
    > > I ever made.

    >
    > How long does it take to read all the patches on an IT8 target, say one of

    the
    > 729 or 918 sample cards? Is the software smart enough to note you've

    missed a
    > patch or otherwise lost your place temporarily?


    The software comes with 2 sets of target for RGB work. The largest (ie,
    most color samples) fits on two 8.5x11 sheets, and has a total of 918
    swatches. I'm pretty sure these are targets developed by Bill Atkinson, for
    which Eye One has a license. The software and strip reading system (they
    supply a holder for the photospectrometer) are pretty cool. You measure
    each row (total of, IIRC, 37 rows) separately in a single pass, and it takes
    about 15 minutes to measure and compute the profile. If you screw up and
    read the wrong row, it beeps and tells you which one to re-read.

    Once computed, the software will tell you which patches, if any, need to be
    re-read. In the previous edition of the software, multiple patches would
    read as "bad", but the profile would be fine. Apparently, they had set the
    DeltaE values too tight, and they have supposedly fixed this and other
    glitches in the up-date. I haven't re-profiled in a while, so I can't
    attest to this.

    > I was thinking of getting a mid-level spectrophotometer like this one but

    the
    > idea of hand-measuring many hundreds of sample points was not appealing

    and I
    > didn't want to spring for several thousand more bucks for one of the auto
    > readers like the X-Rite.


    This system was specifically recommended to me, both by an Adobe guru and by
    the folks at Chromix. The only major differences bewteen this and the $3500
    system are: 1), a dedicated paper reader unit with a more stable
    photospectrometer holder, 2), CMYK device profiling, and, 3), profile
    reading software that supposedly allows for tweaking. IOW, $50 worth of
    plastic, and some software add-ins. Even though the profile tweaking really
    appeals to me, I've been told by Chromix that this feature is problematic:
    you end up chasing your tail since every tweak results in an off-setting and
    unwanted change elsewhere - they recommend leaving the profile alone and
    making slight PS adjustements, if at all necessary.

    If you like, I'll e-mail you one of my 2200 profiles (in Epson, I have
    Luster, Matte, Semi-Gloss, and VFA) and you can see what you think.




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    Flycaster, Nov 14, 2003
    #7
  8. nobody nowhere

    Bill Hilton Guest

    >> How long does it take to read all the patches on an IT8 target

    >From: "Flycaster"


    >The software comes with 2 sets of target for RGB work. The largest (ie,
    >most color samples) fits on two 8.5x11 sheets, and has a total of 918
    >swatches. ... You measure
    >each row (total of, IIRC, 37 rows) separately in a single pass, and it takes
    >about 15 minutes to measure and compute the profile.


    Ah, that's not so bad. I wanted to avoid the ones that require you to measure
    every single patch separately, which takes close to an hour or more, I was
    told, and leads to a sore thumb from pushing the stupid button 918 times for
    each paper :).

    >This system was specifically recommended to me, both by an Adobe guru and by
    >the folks at Chromix.


    Atkinson was high on the Eye One system for monitor calibration when I took his
    fine-art printing class last year, he said he got better results than with the
    ColorVision Spyder he'd been using, especially for LCD displays. Sounds like
    they have their act together. The problem with the printer software I have is
    I have to use a scanner to make the measurements and that just isn't accurate
    enough.

    >If you like, I'll e-mail you one of my 2200 profiles (in Epson, I have
    >Luster, Matte, Semi-Gloss, and VFA) and you can see what you think.


    That would be great ... actually, if you can mail me two I'd really appreciate
    it --- Luster, which prints great on my current profile already but I could
    compare them, and VFA, which looks really drab and weak with my current profile
    (I get much better results with the Watercolor-RW but it's only available in
    13x19" sheets).

    If you only feel comfortable sending one (I understand) just send the VFA since
    the one I have is unusable and I have a lot of expensive paper for it sitting
    around. I can send you the George Lepp 2200 profiles if you wish to compare
    but sounds like you don't need them.

    Bill
    (change .comedy to .com to email)
    Bill Hilton, Nov 14, 2003
    #8
  9. nobody nowhere

    Flycaster Guest

    "Bill Hilton" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    [snip]
    > Atkinson was high on the Eye One system for monitor calibration when I

    took his
    > fine-art printing class last year, he said he got better results than with

    the
    > ColorVision Spyder he'd been using, especially for LCD displays. Sounds

    like
    > they have their act together. The problem with the printer software I

    have is
    > I have to use a scanner to make the measurements and that just isn't

    accurate
    > enough.


    The Eye-One system takes a lot more spot color measurements than did
    PhotoCal, thus the color ramps are more accurate. Furthermore, it doesn't
    just take R, G, and then B ramps; rather, it measures those and color mixes
    as well.

    > That would be great ... actually, if you can mail me two I'd really

    appreciate
    > it --- Luster, which prints great on my current profile already but I

    could
    > compare them, and VFA, which looks really drab and weak with my current

    profile
    > (I get much better results with the Watercolor-RW but it's only available

    in
    > 13x19" sheets).
    >
    > If you only feel comfortable sending one (I understand) just send the VFA

    since
    > the one I have is unusable and I have a lot of expensive paper for it

    sitting
    > around. I can send you the George Lepp 2200 profiles if you wish to

    compare
    > but sounds like you don't need them.


    It's no problem, but the files are big. I'll send 'em both as separate
    e-mails, along with my notes.




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    Flycaster, Nov 15, 2003
    #9
  10. nobody nowhere

    Bill Hilton Guest

    >From: "Flycaster"

    > I'll send ... both <profiles> as separate e-mails, along with
    > my notes.


    Got 'em ... I sent you an email but in case you don't get it, thanks, I
    especially appreciate the VFA profile since the paper is about $1.60 a sheet
    and the prints with my current profiles look like 17 centavos.

    I dumped them into an ICC viewer to plot the gamuts and yours have a bit wider
    gamut than the Lepp/Tim Grey profile or the original Epson ones, especially in
    the yellows and greens. Will try to print tomorrow ... you're a good man!
    Bill
    Bill Hilton, Nov 15, 2003
    #10
  11. nobody nowhere

    Annika1980 Guest

    >From: dy (Bill Hilton)

    >> I'll send ... both <profiles> as separate e-mails, along with
    >> my notes.

    >
    >Got 'em ... I sent you an email but in case you don't get it, thanks, I
    >especially appreciate the VFA profile since the paper is about $1.60 a sheet
    >and the prints with my current profiles look like 17 centavos.


    Speaking of profiles, does anyone have any Epson 1270 profiles they'd like to
    share? I print mainly on Premium Glossy Photo, but I have some Premium Luster
    and a few sheets of Matte - Heavyweight that I need to get rid of as well.

    I haven't been 100% happy with the other profiles I've tried from both Epson
    and outside sources.
    Annika1980, Nov 15, 2003
    #11
  12. nobody nowhere

    Rafe B. Guest

    On 15 Nov 2003 04:24:13 GMT, (Annika1980) wrote:

    >>From: dy (Bill Hilton)

    >
    >>> I'll send ... both <profiles> as separate e-mails, along with
    >>> my notes.

    >>
    >>Got 'em ... I sent you an email but in case you don't get it, thanks, I
    >>especially appreciate the VFA profile since the paper is about $1.60 a sheet
    >>and the prints with my current profiles look like 17 centavos.

    >
    >Speaking of profiles, does anyone have any Epson 1270 profiles they'd like to
    >share? I print mainly on Premium Glossy Photo, but I have some Premium Luster
    >and a few sheets of Matte - Heavyweight that I need to get rid of as well.




    IIRC, there are a number of Epson printer/paper profiles available
    for download at inkjetmall.com


    rafe b.
    http://www.terrapinphoto.com
    Rafe B., Nov 15, 2003
    #12
  13. nobody nowhere

    Annika1980 Guest

    >From: Rafe B.

    >IIRC, there are a number of Epson printer/paper profiles available
    >for download at inkjetmall.com
    >


    Yes, I know. I've bought at least one from them and I wasn't terribly happy
    with it.
    Annika1980, Nov 16, 2003
    #13
  14. nobody nowhere

    Flycaster Guest

    "Annika1980" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > >From: Rafe B.

    >
    > >IIRC, there are a number of Epson printer/paper profiles available
    > >for download at inkjetmall.com
    > >

    >
    > Yes, I know. I've bought at least one from them and I wasn't terribly

    happy
    > with it.


    Ditto.




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    Flycaster, Nov 16, 2003
    #14
  15. nobody nowhere

    MikeWhy Guest

    "Annika1980" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > >From: Rafe B.

    >
    > >IIRC, there are a number of Epson printer/paper profiles available
    > >for download at inkjetmall.com
    > >

    >
    > Yes, I know. I've bought at least one from them and I wasn't terribly

    happy
    > with it.


    What didn't you like? It was a huge step forward for me from Epson's
    profiles. What would you use instead? The Eye-One is too pricey for my
    needs, and I'm pretty leery -- probably unjustly so -- of low priced
    solutions like ColorVision's PrintFix.
    MikeWhy, Nov 16, 2003
    #15
  16. nobody nowhere

    Annika1980 Guest

    >From: "MikeWhy"

    >> >IIRC, there are a number of Epson printer/paper profiles available
    >> >for download at inkjetmall.com
    >> >

    >>
    >> Yes, I know. I've bought at least one from them and I wasn't terribly

    >happy
    >> with it.

    >
    >What didn't you like? It was a huge step forward for me from Epson's
    >profiles. What would you use instead?


    Good question.
    That's why I was interested in trying other profiles that others may have
    created.
    The only other option is the expensive one .... to do the profiling myself.
    Annika1980, Nov 16, 2003
    #16
  17. nobody nowhere

    Flycaster Guest

    "MikeWhy" <> wrote in message
    news:46Gtb.2772$...
    > "Annika1980" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > >From: Rafe B.

    > >
    > > >IIRC, there are a number of Epson printer/paper profiles available
    > > >for download at inkjetmall.com
    > > >

    > >
    > > Yes, I know. I've bought at least one from them and I wasn't terribly

    > happy
    > > with it.

    >
    > What didn't you like? It was a huge step forward for me from Epson's
    > profiles. What would you use instead? The Eye-One is too pricey for my
    > needs, and I'm pretty leery -- probably unjustly so -- of low priced
    > solutions like ColorVision's PrintFix.


    Mike, they just were not at all accurate. Color was off, and the contrast
    and shadow detail were too. From what I've seen, the mid range products
    won't build very good profiles since they rely on a flatbed scanner to read
    the test prints - not an accurate solution compared to a dedicated
    photospectrometer.

    If you can decide on, say, just one or two papers, the best bang for the
    buck is to have an outside service make a couple of custom profiles for you.
    Take a look at Chromix, Profile City, and Dry Creek Photo for starters.
    These guys are a little spendy, but they'll work with you to really dial the
    profiles in - and if you simply aren't satisfied, they'll refund your money.
    Ususally, though, the "problem" won't be their profile; rather, it'll be
    your monitor calibration or your proof lighting.




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    Flycaster, Nov 16, 2003
    #17
  18. nobody nowhere

    MikeWhy Guest

    "Flycaster" <> wrote in message
    news:3fb7cbec$...
    > Mike, they just were not at all accurate. Color was off, and the contrast
    > and shadow detail were too. From what I've seen, the mid range products
    > won't build very good profiles since they rely on a flatbed scanner to

    read
    > the test prints - not an accurate solution compared to a dedicated
    > photospectrometer.
    >
    > If you can decide on, say, just one or two papers, the best bang for the
    > buck is to have an outside service make a couple of custom profiles for

    you.
    > Take a look at Chromix, Profile City, and Dry Creek Photo for starters.
    > These guys are a little spendy, but they'll work with you to really dial

    the
    > profiles in - and if you simply aren't satisfied, they'll refund your

    money.
    > Ususally, though, the "problem" won't be their profile; rather, it'll be
    > your monitor calibration or your proof lighting.


    Thanks. It is rather amazing that the devices and media are so close in
    performance -- the printer, inks, and paper they profiled, compared to
    mine -- that commercial profiles are not just usable, but superior to
    anything I can produce myself economically. On the other side, it's somewhat
    distressing that the printer maker's profiles, using their inks and papers,
    don't produce the best results. Not that I'm questioning your observations.
    I understand completely that the scanner or meter used matters more than
    anything else in the process.

    Regarding proof lighting, maybe my needs are not as stringent as yours. :)
    I'm entirely an amateur, and mildly deuteranomalous at that. The subtleties
    you might glean from the proof box would escape me altogether. Scanner-based
    systems might be a good match after all. OTOH, the exactness of reproduction
    might be more important to me than perhaps to you. I rely on the numbers as
    much as I do the soft proof. There is more than a little lingering anxiety
    that reds and greens are grossly misbalanced, but so far, the audience so
    far hasn't expressed any offense.

    I think I'll go forward by looking for a local photo club. (Pointers to ones
    in the Chicago area are welcome.) All the better if they already have the
    equipment. If not, I'll start the push for a group purchase. Is it the
    concensus here that the Eye-One spectrophotometer usefully accurate?
    MikeWhy, Nov 17, 2003
    #18
  19. nobody nowhere

    Flycaster Guest

    "MikeWhy" <> wrote in message
    news:L4Ztb.4667$...
    [snip]
    > I think I'll go forward by looking for a local photo club.


    That is always an *excellent* idea, for many, many reasons. Find someone
    who has your printer, and who really has fun with Photoshop. You'll be *set
    up.*

    > Is it the
    > concensus here that the Eye-One spectrophotometer usefully accurate?


    Is their photospectrometer accurate? Very. Does their Photo package make
    good profiles? I'm happy, but I can't speak for others.

    >I'm entirely an amateur, and mildly deuteranomalous at that.


    Does that mean you tend to see things with a green cast, or what? (You sent
    me to the dictionary with that one, but I'm still not sure how it would
    apply to eyesight)




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    Flycaster, Nov 17, 2003
    #19
  20. In article <3fb86faa$>, Flycaster
    <> writes

    Can it calibrate the monitor as well? How would you do that? Does it
    come with a light measuring device? That in itself might perhaps
    justify the high price, since a new calibrated monitor (eg. Sony
    Artisan, about which nobody speaks any more, and I wonder why) would
    cost more.

    >
    >Is their photospectrometer accurate? Very. Does their Photo package make
    >good profiles? I'm happy, but I can't speak for others.
    >
    >
    >
    >
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    Nobody
    nobody nowhere, Nov 17, 2003
    #20
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