Greetings from a Newcomer

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Jim Newcomb, Jan 22, 2008.

  1. Jim Newcomb

    Jim Newcomb Guest

    X-No-Archive: Yes

    Hello Everyone:

    My name is Jim Newcomb, and I am a newcomer to this group and to
    photography in general. Nice to meet you!

    I am currently looking for a good, easy-to-use, and affordable digital
    camera. It would be a great plus if I could get one that was either
    waterproof or shock-proof, as I subject most of my toys to moderate
    abuse. I am looking to get as many megapixels as I can, in the range
    of $300-$400. I currently own a late-model Apple MacBook Pro, on
    which I would like to store my pictures, and would be looking for a
    camera that would play well with my other toys. Picture quality and
    advanced features are not as important to me as the quality of user-
    friendliness, as I am not very technical-minded. Having a large
    capacity of memory would be handy.

    Does anyone have any suggestions, for cameras that you have used
    personally?

    Thanks, I'd appreciate any suggestions or opinions you may have!

    Jim
     
    Jim Newcomb, Jan 22, 2008
    #1
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  2. Jim Newcomb

    bugbear Guest

    Jim Newcomb wrote:
    > I am looking to get as many megapixels as I can


    Why?

    BugBear
     
    bugbear, Jan 22, 2008
    #2
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  3. Jim Newcomb

    ChrisM Guest

    In message ,
    bugbear <bugbear@trim_papermule.co.uk_trim> Proclaimed from the tallest
    tower:

    > Jim Newcomb wrote:
    >> I am looking to get as many megapixels as I can

    >
    > Why?
    >
    > BugBear


    megapixels -> quality ???

    --
    Regards,
    Chris.
    (Remove Elvis's shoes to email me)
     
    ChrisM, Jan 22, 2008
    #3
  4. Jim Newcomb

    tony cooper Guest

    On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 04:31:51 -0800 (PST), Jim Newcomb
    <> wrote:

    >X-No-Archive: Yes
    >
    >Hello Everyone:
    >
    >My name is Jim Newcomb, and I am a newcomer to this group and to
    >photography in general. Nice to meet you!
    >
    >I am currently looking for a good, easy-to-use, and affordable digital
    >camera. It would be a great plus if I could get one that was either
    >waterproof or shock-proof, as I subject most of my toys to moderate
    >abuse. I am looking to get as many megapixels as I can, in the range
    >of $300-$400. I currently own a late-model Apple MacBook Pro, on
    >which I would like to store my pictures, and would be looking for a
    >camera that would play well with my other toys. Picture quality and
    >advanced features are not as important to me as the quality of user-
    >friendliness, as I am not very technical-minded. Having a large
    >capacity of memory would be handy.
    >
    >Does anyone have any suggestions, for cameras that you have used
    >personally?
    >
    >Thanks, I'd appreciate any suggestions or opinions you may have!


    From what you've described, the best way for you to choose a camera is
    to handle various models in stores. At the price range you mention,
    all of the P&S digitals will be good cameras. It won't make a
    difference if you use Mac or PC. You've indicated that the special
    features that one camera might have an another not is not of concern
    to you.

    Memory is incidental to brand because large storage cards, or the use
    of more than one card, is common to all brands.

    So it gets down to "feel" and ability to easily operate the camera.
    This can only be done "hands-on". Does the camera feel comfortable in
    your grip? Can you navigate the basic controls easily? Can you view
    the subject easily?

    These are points that can't be covered by a written review.



    --

    Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
     
    tony cooper, Jan 22, 2008
    #4
  5. Jim Newcomb

    John Navas Guest

    On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 13:53:59 -0000, "ChrisM"
    <> wrote in
    <>:

    >In message ,
    >bugbear <bugbear@trim_papermule.co.uk_trim> Proclaimed from the tallest
    >tower:
    >
    >> Jim Newcomb wrote:
    >>> I am looking to get as many megapixels as I can

    >>
    >> Why?


    >megapixels -> quality ???


    They often mean just the opposite. Look first for the best lens, and
    then for enough megapixels to satisfy your needs.

    --
    Best regards,
    John Navas
    Panasonic DMC-FZ8 (and several others)
     
    John Navas, Jan 22, 2008
    #5
  6. Jim Newcomb

    John Navas Guest

    On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 04:31:51 -0800 (PST), Jim Newcomb
    <> wrote in
    <>:

    >My name is Jim Newcomb, and I am a newcomer to this group and to
    >photography in general. Nice to meet you!
    >
    >I am currently looking for a good, easy-to-use, and affordable digital
    >camera. It would be a great plus if I could get one that was either
    >waterproof or shock-proof, as I subject most of my toys to moderate
    >abuse. I am looking to get as many megapixels as I can, in the range
    >of $300-$400. I currently own a late-model Apple MacBook Pro, on
    >which I would like to store my pictures, and would be looking for a
    >camera that would play well with my other toys. Picture quality and
    >advanced features are not as important to me as the quality of user-
    >friendliness, as I am not very technical-minded. Having a large
    >capacity of memory would be handy.
    >
    >Does anyone have any suggestions, for cameras that you have used
    >personally?
    >
    >Thanks, I'd appreciate any suggestions or opinions you may have!


    Quality of lens is far more important than number of megapixels.
    Be sure to look at Panasonic cameras with Leica-branded lenses.

    --
    Best regards,
    John Navas
    Panasonic DMC-FZ8 (and several others)
     
    John Navas, Jan 22, 2008
    #6
  7. Jim Newcomb

    Mr. Strat Guest

    In article <>, John Navas
    <> wrote:

    > Quality of lens is far more important than number of megapixels.
    > Be sure to look at Panasonic cameras with Leica-branded lenses.


    If you don't care about image quality, this would be good advice.
     
    Mr. Strat, Jan 22, 2008
    #7
  8. Jim Newcomb wrote:
    > X-No-Archive: Yes
    >
    > Hello Everyone:
    >
    > My name is Jim Newcomb, and I am a newcomer to this group and to
    > photography in general. Nice to meet you!
    >
    > I am currently looking for a good, easy-to-use, and affordable digital
    > camera. It would be a great plus if I could get one that was either
    > waterproof or shock-proof, as I subject most of my toys to moderate
    > abuse. I am looking to get as many megapixels as I can, in the range
    > of $300-$400. I currently own a late-model Apple MacBook Pro, on
    > which I would like to store my pictures, and would be looking for a
    > camera that would play well with my other toys. Picture quality and
    > advanced features are not as important to me as the quality of user-
    > friendliness, as I am not very technical-minded. Having a large
    > capacity of memory would be handy.
    >
    > Does anyone have any suggestions, for cameras that you have used
    > personally?
    >
    > Thanks, I'd appreciate any suggestions or opinions you may have!
    >
    > Jim
    >
    >
    >


    I bought a Nikon Coolpix L15 recently. It has 8.1 megapixels and
    is the first of the low priced cameras which has VR which is
    image stabilization for camera shake. The memory cards came
    seperately, it is a good idea to have two at 2gigs ($40). I bought
    a card reader for $15 which saves battery life. The L15 is
    available from Amazon for $149 the last I looked. The battery
    recharger and rechargeable batteries cost $30. So that is over
    $200 without a tripod. If you buy a sorta expensive camera
    which can store images in RAW format which is what pros use
    maybe the brand of laptop matters (yours is the best I hear).

    Most people use Photoshop for digital assest management. Or Adobe
    LightRoom is cheaper. But Picasa by Google is free and recommended
    for most people. I bought a cheap but good enough to find out if I
    like it camera since the peripherals mount up in the total price.

    It is going to take effort to read the manual and I don't think that
    can be bypassed no matter what camera you buy.
     
    Stephen Harris, Jan 23, 2008
    #8
  9. Jim Newcomb

    John Navas Guest

    On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 03:31:55 GMT, Stephen Harris
    <> wrote in
    <Lyylj.224$>:

    >I bought a Nikon Coolpix L15 recently. It has 8.1 megapixels and
    >is the first of the low priced cameras which has VR which is
    >image stabilization for camera shake.


    Image stabilization has actually been available in compact digital
    cameras for quite some time.

    Panasonic is notable for having many such cameras. See
    <http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/MegaOISExplained>

    >The L15 is
    >available from Amazon for $149 the last I looked. The battery
    >recharger and rechargeable batteries cost $30. So that is over
    >$200 without a tripod. If you buy a sorta expensive camera
    >which can store images in RAW format which is what pros use
    >maybe the brand of laptop matters (yours is the best I hear).


    Nikon L15: 3x zoom

    Also from Amazon:

    Panasonic DMC-LS75S 7.2MP Digital Camera with 3x Optical Image
    Stabilized Zoom: $100

    Panasonic Lumix DMC-LZ6S 7.2MP Digital Camera with 6x Image Stabilized
    Zoom: $132

    >Most people use Photoshop for digital assest management. Or Adobe
    >LightRoom is cheaper. But Picasa by Google is free and recommended
    >for most people. ...


    Adobe Photoshop Elements is more highly recommended for average users.

    --
    Best regards,
    John Navas
    Panasonic DMC-FZ8 (and several others)
     
    John Navas, Jan 23, 2008
    #9
  10. Jim Newcomb

    Charles Guest

    In article <>, John Navas
    <> wrote:

    > Adobe Photoshop Elements is more highly recommended for average users.


    Since he has a MacBook Pro, iPhoto which ships with it, is fine for the
    average user.

    --
    Charles
     
    Charles, Jan 23, 2008
    #10
  11. Jim Newcomb

    John Navas Guest

    On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 23:08:37 -0500, Charles <> wrote in
    <220120082308379604%>:

    >In article <>, John Navas
    ><> wrote:
    >
    >> Adobe Photoshop Elements is more highly recommended for average users.

    >
    >Since he has a MacBook Pro, iPhoto which ships with it, is fine for the
    >average user.


    True, but PSE is coming for the Mac, and I was responding to the advice
    on Picasa, which I don't personally think is all that terrific.

    --
    Best regards,
    John Navas
    Panasonic DMC-FZ8 (and several others)
     
    John Navas, Jan 23, 2008
    #11
  12. Jim Newcomb

    Jim Newcomb Guest

    X-No-Archive: Yes

    On Jan 23, 1:15 pm, John Navas <> wrote:
    > On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 23:08:37 -0500, Charles <> wrote in
    > <220120082308379604%>:
    >
    > >In article <>, John Navas
    > ><> wrote:

    >
    > >> Adobe Photoshop Elements is more highly recommended for average users.

    >
    > >Since he has a MacBook Pro, iPhoto which ships with it, is fine for the
    > >average user.

    >
    > True, but PSE is coming for the Mac, and I was responding to the advice
    > on Picasa, which I don't personally think is all that terrific.
    >
    > --
    > Best regards,
    > John Navas
    > Panasonic DMC-FZ8 (and several others)


    Thanks everybody for your input, it's really helpful to a beginner to
    hear some more experienced opinions. Having reviewed my needs and the
    opinions of the posters here, I am thinking that I should start by
    looking at brands and cameras that are well-reputed/established as
    "outdoors" or "underwater" or at least "waterproof" cameras.
    "Shockproof" would be helpful as well, I do a lot of outdoors stuff
    and the camera would need to survive a backpack for long periods. I
    have done some surfing (the internet) on my own, and found Sealife
    cameras.

    Does anybody have any general opinions as to reliable brands for
    waterproof/underwater digital cameras? I really appreciate the tips
    everyone has offered so far. I have so far heard good things about
    Canon digital cameras, and Panasonics with Leica lenses. I will keep
    an eye out for these, if I see any bargains.

    thanks,

    Jim
     
    Jim Newcomb, Jan 23, 2008
    #12
  13. Jim Newcomb

    tony cooper Guest

    On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 00:32:30 -0800 (PST), Jim Newcomb
    <> wrote:

    >Thanks everybody for your input, it's really helpful to a beginner to
    >hear some more experienced opinions. Having reviewed my needs and the
    >opinions of the posters here, I am thinking that I should start by
    >looking at brands and cameras that are well-reputed/established as
    >"outdoors" or "underwater" or at least "waterproof" cameras.
    >"Shockproof" would be helpful as well, I do a lot of outdoors stuff
    >and the camera would need to survive a backpack for long periods. I
    >have done some surfing (the internet) on my own, and found Sealife
    >cameras.
    >
    >Does anybody have any general opinions as to reliable brands for
    >waterproof/underwater digital cameras? I really appreciate the tips
    >everyone has offered so far. I have so far heard good things about
    >Canon digital cameras, and Panasonics with Leica lenses. I will keep
    >an eye out for these, if I see any bargains.
    >

    I would be greatly surprised if you could find a "shockproof" digital
    camera. I would suggest you strike that off your checklist and buy,
    instead, a padded camera case.

    Unfortunately, the digital cameras don't come with fitted cases the
    way older 35mm cameras did. Not fitted camera bags, but the leather
    case that the camera fit in. Those old fitted leather cases gave a
    great deal of protection.

    I would also be surprised to find a "waterproof" point and shoot that
    is not a dedicated underwater camera.

    I owned an underwater film camera that I used when scuba diving, but
    the current trend to get a plexiglass housing that accommodates a
    regular camera.

    Good lenses are not limited to Canon or Panasonic. Nikon point and
    shoots have good lenses (best, IMO, of the bunch for macro) and Sony
    has models with Zeiss lenses.




    --

    Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
     
    tony cooper, Jan 23, 2008
    #13
  14. Jim Newcomb

    John Navas Guest

    On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 00:32:30 -0800 (PST), Jim Newcomb
    <> wrote in
    <>:

    >Thanks everybody for your input, it's really helpful to a beginner to
    >hear some more experienced opinions. Having reviewed my needs and the
    >opinions of the posters here, I am thinking that I should start by
    >looking at brands and cameras that are well-reputed/established as
    >"outdoors" or "underwater" or at least "waterproof" cameras.
    >"Shockproof" would be helpful as well, I do a lot of outdoors stuff
    >and the camera would need to survive a backpack for long periods. I
    >have done some surfing (the internet) on my own, and found Sealife
    >cameras.
    >
    >Does anybody have any general opinions as to reliable brands for
    >waterproof/underwater digital cameras? I really appreciate the tips
    >everyone has offered so far. I have so far heard good things about
    >Canon digital cameras, and Panasonics with Leica lenses. I will keep
    >an eye out for these, if I see any bargains.


    I think a better bet than a waterproof camera is a regular camera with
    an optional waterproof case.

    --
    Best regards,
    John Navas
    Panasonic DMC-FZ8 (and several others)
     
    John Navas, Jan 23, 2008
    #14
  15. Jim Newcomb

    -hh Guest

    tony cooper <> wrote:
    > Jim Newcomb <> wrote:
    > >Thanks everybody for your input... Having reviewed my needs and the
    > >opinions of the posters here, I am thinking that I should start by
    > >looking at brands and cameras that are well-reputed/established as
    > >"outdoors" or "underwater" or at least "waterproof" cameras.


    FWIW, there's "rain resistant" cameras, then there's "waterproof"
    cameras and then there's cameras that I'd actually be willing to take
    underwater. Its probably not too different than so-called
    'waterproof' watches, where a "50m" rated watch is warned by the
    manufacturer to be okay for taking a shower with, but don't take it
    into an 8ft deep pool :)

    > >"Shockproof" would be helpful as well, I do a lot of outdoors stuff
    > >and the camera would need to survive a backpack for long periods.


    Are you planning on throwing your backpack off of tall cliffs?


    > >I have done some surfing (the internet) on my own, and found Sealife
    > >cameras.

    >
    > >Does anybody have any general opinions as to reliable brands for
    > >waterproof/underwater digital cameras?  


    In general, the Sealife UW cameras are yesterday's technology at twice
    the price of today's cameras, which is put into a waterproof case that
    if it leaks, they'll blame operator error. For example, their DC600
    (6MP) runs $500, yet isn't compatible with SDHD memory cards, so
    you're limited to just 1GB max cards.


    > I would be greatly surprised if you could find a "shockproof" digital
    > camera.  I would suggest you strike that off your checklist and buy,
    > instead, a padded camera case.  


    Agreed. The same may also apply for waterproof needs.


    > I would also be surprised to find a "waterproof" point and shoot that
    > is not a dedicated underwater camera


    There have been a few models sold, although generally just to pool /
    snorkel depths. In any event, it is frequently the sand getting into
    the gears that causes early mortality.

    If the OP is really planning on getting the camera wet - - ie, in the
    pool or ocean - - then don't mess around and look for a model that the
    OEM also sells a dedicated housings for.

    The main reason for this is that in salt water, O-rings **always**
    will accumulate dried salts that will encrust on the O-rings and
    proverbially 'cut' through the seal, eventually causing a failure.

    As such, you either want to:

    a) have a system where the O-rings are very user-servicable
    (housings),

    b) buy a product where there is a market for professional servicing of
    the camera's O-rings (see note).
    or:
    c) buy a product that you know upfront that can't be effectively
    maintained and thus, not complain when it dies a horrible death in a
    few years of exposure.

    Note: the 'professional servicing' market I'm referring to is a
    teardown to replace the "non-user servicable" O-rings within the
    amphibious camera, such as what has existed for the 35mm film Nikon
    Nikonos series camera system for the past 30+ years. As a rule of
    thumb, using an amphibious camera in a salt water environment results
    in the need for a professional service every few years (depends on
    how many 'wet/dry' cycles per year), which will run you roughly $150
    per servicing. As the numbers of exposure to this environment
    increase, a water leakage is a statistical inevitability, and given
    that a digital camera is full of electronics and electricity, the
    hardware failure mode will invariably be catastrophic and complete.


    > I owned an underwater film camera that I used when scuba diving, but
    > the current trend to get a plexiglass housing that accommodates a
    > regular camera.


    I also have each of those, plus I'm shopping for a new housed system.


    > Good lenses are not limited to Canon or Panasonic.  Nikon point and
    > shoots have good lenses (best, IMO, of the bunch for macro) and Sony
    > has models with Zeiss lenses.


    Plus performance is not limited to just what has technically "good
    glass". The holistic package is what forms the sum, which generally
    means to look at the final results in reviews and not worry if its
    because of better glass or better software. Plus, get out to a brick
    & mortar store to hold the products and determine firsthand which sort
    of design approach / philosophy is closest to what your preferences
    are. The OP may also want to consider other 'attribute' factors, such
    as if it still has an optical viewfinder, fold-out LCD display, etc.


    -hh
     
    -hh, Jan 23, 2008
    #15
  16. Jim Newcomb

    TH O Guest

    > On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 00:32:30 -0800 (PST), Jim Newcomb
    > <> wrote:
    >
    > >Thanks everybody for your input, it's really helpful to a beginner to
    > >hear some more experienced opinions. Having reviewed my needs and the
    > >opinions of the posters here, I am thinking that I should start by
    > >looking at brands and cameras that are well-reputed/established as
    > >"outdoors" or "underwater" or at least "waterproof" cameras.
    > >"Shockproof" would be helpful as well, I do a lot of outdoors stuff
    > >and the camera would need to survive a backpack for long periods. I
    > >have done some surfing (the internet) on my own, and found Sealife
    > >cameras.
    > >
    > >Does anybody have any general opinions as to reliable brands for
    > >waterproof/underwater digital cameras? I really appreciate the tips
    > >everyone has offered so far. I have so far heard good things about
    > >Canon digital cameras, and Panasonics with Leica lenses. I will keep
    > >an eye out for these, if I see any bargains.
    > >


    Here's the camera you're looking for ...

    http://www.olympusamerica.com/cpg_section/product.asp?product=1363

    The camera that redefines tough. The Stylus 1030 SW is one tough
    camera. The Shockproof, Waterproof, Freezeproof and Dustproof design
    gives active people the confidence to take this camera anywhere and
    shoot in nearly any condition. Plus, the wide-angle lens lets users
    capture more of what they see. Great for divers, surfers, rafters,
    skiers and anyone with an active lifestyle.

    SHOCKPROOF (6.6FT).
    Accidents happen. A rugged metal body and revolutionary shock-absorbing
    construction are designed to withstand a 6.6-foot fall, drop or other
    mishap.

    WATERPROOF (33FT).
    Innovative waterproof seals and gaskets allow you to take underwater
    movies and amazing pictures in a pool, lake or ocean.

    FREEZEPROOF (14F).
    Perfect for skiing, snowboarding, sledding and other winter fun, this
    camera is winterized to perform at below-freezing temperatures.

    CRUSHPROOF (220 LBF).
    With a rugged body and reinforced LCD, the Stylus 1030 SW withstands up
    to 220 pounds of pressure so your camera and images are protected.

    3.6x WIDE-ANGLE ZOOM LENS.
    A wider field of view ensures you'll never miss anyone or anything in
    your shot. Great for shooting landscapes, underwater scenery, group
    portraits and amazing panoramic pictures.

    2.7" HyperCrystal II LCD.
    With improved contrast and color reproduction, the HyperCrystal II LCD
    offers a more accurate and precise image display, as well as an
    extra-wide viewing angle and increased visibility in direct sunlight.
     
    TH O, Feb 2, 2008
    #16
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