Green Computing

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by peterwn, Jan 24, 2008.

  1. peterwn

    peterwn Guest

    See:

    http://groups.google.co.nz/group/co...hread/bab3d05b2fc6e22c?hl=en#9693bb67d6af0954

    or

    http://tinyurl.com/2v9ke7

    ,----[ Quote ]
    | A new report from the U.K. Office of Government Commerce about Open
    | Source Software Trials in Government, has found that servers running
    | Linux could combat the rising problem of e-waste because they last
    | up to twice as long as machines running Windows.
    `----

    Linux Could Prevent Use of 4,200,000,000 kg of Fossil Fuels a Year

    NZ needs to take note too. why should we all be locked in on an
    obsolescence treadmill dictated by Microsoft and Intel.
    peterwn, Jan 24, 2008
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. peterwn

    Gordon Guest

    On 2008-01-24, peterwn <> wrote:
    > See:
    >
    > http://groups.google.co.nz/group/co...hread/bab3d05b2fc6e22c?hl=en#9693bb67d6af0954
    >
    > or
    >
    > http://tinyurl.com/2v9ke7
    >
    > ,----[ Quote ]
    >| A new report from the U.K. Office of Government Commerce about Open
    >| Source Software Trials in Government, has found that servers running
    >| Linux could combat the rising problem of e-waste because they last
    >| up to twice as long as machines running Windows.
    > `----
    >
    > Linux Could Prevent Use of 4,200,000,000 kg of Fossil Fuels a Year
    >
    > NZ needs to take note too. why should we all be locked in on an
    > obsolescence treadmill dictated by Microsoft and Intel.


    Because it keeps the GDP up. Read keeps the economy growing well. ;-
    Gordon, Jan 25, 2008
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. peterwn

    peterwn Guest

    On Jan 25, 5:48 pm, Gordon <> wrote:
    > On 2008-01-24, peterwn <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    > > See:

    >
    > >http://groups.google.co.nz/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/browse_frm/th...

    >
    > > or

    >
    > >http://tinyurl.com/2v9ke7

    >
    > > ,----[ Quote ]
    > >| A new report from the U.K. Office of Government Commerce about Open
    > >| Source Software Trials in Government, has found that servers running
    > >| Linux could combat the rising problem of e-waste because they last
    > >| up to twice as long as machines running Windows.
    > > `----

    >
    > > Linux Could Prevent Use of 4,200,000,000 kg of Fossil Fuels a Year

    >
    > > NZ needs to take note too. why should we all be locked in on an
    > > obsolescence treadmill dictated by Microsoft and Intel.

    >
    > Because it keeps the GDP up. Read keeps the economy growing well. ;-


    I could not care a hoot about China's or Redmond's GDP - it is not
    going to keep the NZ GDP up.

    Now Billy boy wants the US Government to 'pork barrel' foreign aid to
    third world countries so they can buy Micro$oft loaded computers.
    peterwn, Jan 25, 2008
    #3
  4. peterwn

    Fred Dagg Guest

    On Thu, 24 Jan 2008 00:18:19 -0800 (PST), peterwn
    <> exclaimed:

    >
    >Linux Could Prevent Use of 4,200,000,000 kg of Fossil Fuels a Year
    >


    ROFLMAO!!! I mean, really, LOL!!!

    I see you're still talking out of your arse.
    Fred Dagg, Jan 25, 2008
    #4
  5. peterwn

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Somewhere on teh intarweb "Gordon" typed:
    > On 2008-01-24, peterwn <> wrote:
    >> See:
    >>
    >> http://groups.google.co.nz/group/co...hread/bab3d05b2fc6e22c?hl=en#9693bb67d6af0954
    >>
    >> or
    >>
    >> http://tinyurl.com/2v9ke7
    >>
    >> ,----[ Quote ]
    >>> A new report from the U.K. Office of Government Commerce about Open
    >>> Source Software Trials in Government, has found that servers running
    >>> Linux could combat the rising problem of e-waste because they last
    >>> up to twice as long as machines running Windows.

    >> `----
    >>
    >> Linux Could Prevent Use of 4,200,000,000 kg of Fossil Fuels a Year
    >>
    >> NZ needs to take note too. why should we all be locked in on an
    >> obsolescence treadmill dictated by Microsoft and Intel.

    >
    > Because it keeps the GDP up. Read keeps the economy growing well. ;-


    LOL, yeah, who gives a shit if we don't have a planet to live on, as long as
    the GDP is all good. ;-]
    --
    Shaun.
    ~misfit~, Jan 25, 2008
    #5
  6. peterwn

    peterwn Guest

    On Jan 25, 10:30 pm, Fred Dagg <> wrote:
    > On Thu, 24 Jan 2008 00:18:19 -0800 (PST), peterwn
    > <> exclaimed:
    >
    >
    >
    > >Linux Could Prevent Use of 4,200,000,000 kg of Fossil Fuels a Year

    >
    > ROFLMAO!!! I mean, really, LOL!!!
    >
    > I see you're still talking out of your arse.


    So I take it, that is the most meaningful contribution Micro$oft via
    its shills can make to this important matter. About time Micro$oft
    sacked its chief shill-herder.
    peterwn, Jan 25, 2008
    #6
  7. peterwn wrote:
    > See:
    >
    > http://groups.google.co.nz/group/co...hread/bab3d05b2fc6e22c?hl=en#9693bb67d6af0954
    >
    > or
    >
    > http://tinyurl.com/2v9ke7
    >
    > ,----[ Quote ]
    > | A new report from the U.K. Office of Government Commerce about Open
    > | Source Software Trials in Government, has found that servers running
    > | Linux could combat the rising problem of e-waste because they last
    > | up to twice as long as machines running Windows.
    > `----
    >
    > Linux Could Prevent Use of 4,200,000,000 kg of Fossil Fuels a Year
    >
    > NZ needs to take note too. why should we all be locked in on an
    > obsolescence treadmill dictated by Microsoft and Intel.

    Does It sound good?
    I dont know!

    You see some components on a Pc Motherbord only have a limited life!
    Like a light bulb and others just have a time span fom manufacture. Old
    hardware is ok for the home or if you have plenty of scrap spaires lying
    arroud. But if you have a Enterprise setup you want hardware relibility.
    New is the way to go with a replacemt date and paln. It does not matter
    what OS you are using Broken Hardware is broken Hardware and Hardware
    breaks with Age!

    --
    http://cooze.co.nz home of the RecyclerMan aka Robert Cooze

    / __/ / / / / /__ / / ___/ / __/ / / / |/ / /__ /
    / / / /_/ / / /_/ / _-' / __/ / / / /_/ / / /| / _-'
    ___\ ____/ ____/ /___/ /____/ /_/ ___\ ____/ /_/ /_/ |_/ /___/
    RecyclerMan (Robert Cooze), Jan 25, 2008
    #7
  8. peterwn

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Somewhere on teh intarweb "RecyclerMan (Robert Cooze)"
    <""nopants66\"@hotmail.c o m" typed:
    > peterwn wrote:
    >> See:
    >>
    >> http://groups.google.co.nz/group/co...hread/bab3d05b2fc6e22c?hl=en#9693bb67d6af0954
    >>
    >> or
    >>
    >> http://tinyurl.com/2v9ke7
    >>
    >> ,----[ Quote ]
    >>> A new report from the U.K. Office of Government Commerce about Open
    >>> Source Software Trials in Government, has found that servers running
    >>> Linux could combat the rising problem of e-waste because they last
    >>> up to twice as long as machines running Windows.

    >> `----
    >>
    >> Linux Could Prevent Use of 4,200,000,000 kg of Fossil Fuels a Year
    >>
    >> NZ needs to take note too. why should we all be locked in on an
    >> obsolescence treadmill dictated by Microsoft and Intel.

    > Does It sound good?
    > I dont know!
    >
    > You see some components on a Pc Motherbord only have a limited life!
    > Like a light bulb and others just have a time span fom manufacture.
    > Old hardware is ok for the home or if you have plenty of scrap
    > spaires lying arroud. But if you have a Enterprise setup you want
    > hardware relibility. New is the way to go with a replacemt date and
    > paln. It does not matter what OS you are using Broken Hardware is
    > broken Hardware and Hardware breaks with Age!


    Cheaply-made hardware breaks with age. I know that includes just about all
    Dell/HP/Compaq... at least non-server-class equipment.

    However, since the bad capacitor debacle there's no reason why a modern
    non-budget motherboard shouldn't last for many, many years. Same with the
    RAM and CPU. If you start with quality components these days the only things
    likely to "break with age" are mechanical components like HDDs and optical
    drives.

    I guess the moral of the story is; If you buy quality and maintain it (blow
    out dust periodically) there's no reason why you can't use it for decades,
    just imaging (from a new install of course) and replacing the HDDs and CMOS
    batteries every three years (or whatever arbitrary time you want to put on
    it).

    My latest motherboard is an Asus P5K-E which has no "wet" electrolytic caps,
    (the most common point-of-failure historically) they're all conductive
    polymer caps and, as such, shouldn't fail for a very long time. It's also
    capable of running the 45nm Intel CPUs so I should be able to replace my
    Core 2 Duo with a 'Penryn' Core 2 Quad in about 18 months or so when they
    become more affordable. Hopefully the core of this machine will last me 10
    years at least, maybe a lot longer.

    I have a couple of five year old Soltek nForce2 Ultra400 mobos here that are
    still running just fine, although I've had to re-cap them. I don't see why
    they shouldn't keep going for a few years at least yet. Maybe by then I'll
    be able to source conductive polymer caps at a reasonable price to put in
    those too.

    I guess that my point is quality solid-state components used in situations
    with 'tolerances' have very long life-times. The only reasons I can see to
    be stuck in a three-year complete machine replacement cycle is:

    a) They're cheaply made to start with.
    b) The users are in that small minority who actually *need* a power upgrade.
    c) It's easier to plug in a new machine than it is to 'refurbish' an older
    one and replace the HDD.
    d) <shrug> We can write them off, they've already been depreciated 80%
    anyway. <shrug/don't give a **** about the environment>

    Modern CPUs have all the power that a
    receptionist/data-entry/average-office-worker will ever need as long as they
    don't buy into OS and App. bloat. All that is needed is wise choices when
    purchasing (maybe spending a bit more to get a quality machine) and, as
    mentioned, perhaps HDD replacement every few years, until solid-state
    storage is affordable enough to supercede HDDs.

    I think that the government needs to recognise this with changes to the
    depreciation system for computers, with maybe a bigger first-year bonus if
    the machines fit a certain (potential designed-for longevity) spec. Is it
    going to happen? Not likely. We'll be engaging in rampant consumerism all
    the way to our deaths most likely. Ideally the government should instigate
    this policy for all computers imported into NZ, not just those designed for
    business use. We've lead the world before in 'Green' legislation, perhaps
    it's time to do it again?

    Ok, the next-gen Intel "Nehalem" CPUs due out around Q2 '09 are going to
    need radically different motherboards as the memory controller is going to
    be integrated into the CPU (a la AMD) which does away with the need for a
    northbridge. Hence today's latest and greatest motherboards won't be able to
    utilise these CPUs and the (Penryn) CPUs being released now and for the next
    few months or more will be obsolete in a year if we let Intel have it's way.
    Is it progress or is it simply a way to part people from money? A little of
    both I think, weighted toward the getting money side.

    We need to make a conscious effort to step off the consumerism-driven
    treadmill. A quality motherboard bought today should have the potential to
    provide enough computing power for 95% of users for many, many years. (A
    quad-core 'Penryn' 45nm CPU is a force to be reckoned with.) As long as we
    don't continue swallow the "Win-tel" partnership of Intel making the CPUs
    and Microsoft building an OS that eats the CPU power.

    I'm no Linux advocate. In fact I don't run a Linux machine. However, I'll
    *never* run Vista or any later Microsoft OS unless it's specifically
    designed to be light on CPU requirements and is an improvement over XP Pro.
    (In fact I'm watching XP updates carefully as I wouldn't put it past MS to
    slowly cripple XP in an effort to get the users to "upgrade". If Microsoft
    doen't fulfill my needs then I'l have to look elsewhere for an OS.
    (Hopefully it'll be a little more user-friendly and run all my games.)

    Two business' call their clients "users", software designers and drugs
    suplliers. They both think they've got you hooked. I for one intend to prove
    them wrong. I hope that the rest of the world doies the same.

    <phew> I've got better things to do on such a nasty/hot day anyway.

    TTFN,
    --
    Shaun.
    ~misfit~, Jan 26, 2008
    #8
  9. peterwn

    Fred Dagg Guest

    On Fri, 25 Jan 2008 10:46:00 -0800 (PST), peterwn
    <> exclaimed:

    >On Jan 25, 10:30 pm, Fred Dagg <> wrote:
    >> On Thu, 24 Jan 2008 00:18:19 -0800 (PST), peterwn
    >> <> exclaimed:
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> >Linux Could Prevent Use of 4,200,000,000 kg of Fossil Fuels a Year

    >>
    >> ROFLMAO!!! I mean, really, LOL!!!
    >>
    >> I see you're still talking out of your arse.

    >
    >So I take it, that is the most meaningful contribution Micro$oft via
    >its shills can make to this important matter. About time Micro$oft
    >sacked its chief shill-herder.


    Well considering I haven't been around these parts for some time, I'm
    not a very effective shill.

    I mean seriously, though, do you honestly believe the bullshit you
    post? Really?

    Just trying to work out if you're a simply bullshit artist or are just
    really gullible.
    Fred Dagg, Jan 26, 2008
    #9
  10. In article <479a3ace$>, RecyclerMan (Robert Cooze) did
    write:

    > But if you have a Enterprise setup you want hardware relibility.
    > New is the way to go with a replacemt date and paln. It does not matter
    > what OS you are using Broken Hardware is broken Hardware and Hardware
    > breaks with Age!


    No it doesn't. It breaks largely at random. New hardware can break under
    warranty. Old hardware can keep on chugging for years--it's hard to predict
    what will break when. Replacing computer stuff that isn't broken doesn't
    improve reliability, it just increases costs.

    And yes, there are enterprises still relying on old servers that have been
    running quite happily, forgotten, in the back of a closet for years.
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Jan 26, 2008
    #10
  11. ~misfit~ wrote:
    > Somewhere on teh intarweb "RecyclerMan (Robert Cooze)"
    > <""nopants66\"@hotmail.c o m" typed:
    >> peterwn wrote:
    >>> See:
    >>>
    >>> http://groups.google.co.nz/group/co...hread/bab3d05b2fc6e22c?hl=en#9693bb67d6af0954
    >>>
    >>> or
    >>>
    >>> http://tinyurl.com/2v9ke7
    >>>
    >>> ,----[ Quote ]
    >>>> A new report from the U.K. Office of Government Commerce about Open
    >>>> Source Software Trials in Government, has found that servers running
    >>>> Linux could combat the rising problem of e-waste because they last
    >>>> up to twice as long as machines running Windows.
    >>> `----
    >>>
    >>> Linux Could Prevent Use of 4,200,000,000 kg of Fossil Fuels a Year
    >>>
    >>> NZ needs to take note too. why should we all be locked in on an
    >>> obsolescence treadmill dictated by Microsoft and Intel.

    >> Does It sound good?
    >> I dont know!
    >>
    >> You see some components on a Pc Motherbord only have a limited life!
    >> Like a light bulb and others just have a time span fom manufacture.
    >> Old hardware is ok for the home or if you have plenty of scrap
    >> spaires lying arroud. But if you have a Enterprise setup you want
    >> hardware relibility. New is the way to go with a replacemt date and
    >> paln. It does not matter what OS you are using Broken Hardware is
    >> broken Hardware and Hardware breaks with Age!

    >
    > Cheaply-made hardware breaks with age. I know that includes just about all
    > Dell/HP/Compaq... at least non-server-class equipment.


    Ok Most in fact all of my Hardware in my house is Old!!! My Pc is a AMD
    Athlon 900 with an Irongate chipset! I had a Dell that was younger that
    when hot if it had more than 64Mb ram it would have memory errors....
    Everything elce in the house is sombodys cast off or the such...

    > However, since the bad capacitor debacle there's no reason why a modern
    > non-budget motherboard shouldn't last for many, many years. Same with the
    > RAM and CPU. If you start with quality components these days the only things
    > likely to "break with age" are mechanical components like HDDs and optical
    > drives.


    Yep my orignal 2Gig drive is still running but a 20gig drive I bought
    about 8 years ago bit the dust big time :(

    > I guess the moral of the story is; If you buy quality and maintain it (blow
    > out dust periodically) there's no reason why you can't use it for decades,
    > just imaging (from a new install of course) and replacing the HDDs and CMOS
    > batteries every three years (or whatever arbitrary time you want to put on
    > it).


    My machine has had all the fans replaced (ones with ball bearings) twice
    and the cleanable ones have been cleaned and lubed often.

    > My latest motherboard is an Asus P5K-E which has no "wet" electrolytic caps,
    > (the most common point-of-failure historically) they're all conductive
    > polymer caps and, as such, shouldn't fail for a very long time. It's also
    > capable of running the 45nm Intel CPUs so I should be able to replace my
    > Core 2 Duo with a 'Penryn' Core 2 Quad in about 18 months or so when they
    > become more affordable. Hopefully the core of this machine will last me 10
    > years at least, maybe a lot longer.


    I only had one motherbord with the bad caps a soyo one... I wish I could
    afford a new PC The preformance of the the current generation is quight
    stagering and some of the percived problems of the older setups are just
    gone! Unfortnutly money houses the Family and feeds em and whats left
    over goes into the car.


    > I have a couple of five year old Soltek nForce2 Ultra400 mobos here that are
    > still running just fine, although I've had to re-cap them. I don't see why
    > they shouldn't keep going for a few years at least yet. Maybe by then I'll
    > be able to source conductive polymer caps at a reasonable price to put in
    > those too.


    From one point that is a good point to have. Now You and I can replace
    the caps on our machines if they need replacing (if It dont work well
    nothing lost I guess) but a busness the machine has to work with the
    least amount of downtime. Most IT personal spend too much time fixing
    the soft part of the machine that hardware faults (old machines) are
    just too hard to fix quickly.


    > I guess that my point is quality solid-state components used in situations
    > with 'tolerances' have very long life-times. The only reasons I can see to
    > be stuck in a three-year complete machine replacement cycle is:
    >
    > a) They're cheaply made to start with.
    > b) The users are in that small minority who actually *need* a power upgrade.
    > c) It's easier to plug in a new machine than it is to 'refurbish' an older
    > one and replace the HDD.
    > d) <shrug> We can write them off, they've already been depreciated 80%
    > anyway. <shrug/don't give a **** about the environment>
    >
    > Modern CPUs have all the power that a
    > receptionist/data-entry/average-office-worker will ever need as long as they
    > don't buy into OS and App. bloat. All that is needed is wise choices when
    > purchasing (maybe spending a bit more to get a quality machine) and, as
    > mentioned, perhaps HDD replacement every few years, until solid-state
    > storage is affordable enough to supercede HDDs.


    Fanless would be the way to go a 100% extruded aloy cace with heat pipes
    would solve the fan issue and would help make the optical drives last a
    little longer. hopefuly the cost of the cace would be offset by the
    incresed lifespan of the computer.

    8><


    > I'm no Linux advocate. In fact I don't run a Linux machine. However, I'll
    > *never* run Vista or any later Microsoft OS unless it's specifically
    > designed to be light on CPU requirements and is an improvement over XP Pro.
    > (In fact I'm watching XP updates carefully as I wouldn't put it past MS to
    > slowly cripple XP in an effort to get the users to "upgrade". If Microsoft
    > doen't fulfill my needs then I'l have to look elsewhere for an OS.
    > (Hopefully it'll be a little more user-friendly and run all my games.)


    I use Linux and Windows, Use the best OS for the job... from what I have
    seen Vista is realy full of blote as well as the latest office (from
    Microsoft) mind you open office is a resorce hog on my machine but It
    goes! I can get a 3 to 4 year cycle out of WinXp before it needs
    rebuilding... I have never had a desktop linux distro last more than 6
    months before upgrade to newer or it breaks under its own update system.

    > Two business' call their clients "users", software designers and drugs
    > suplliers. They both think they've got you hooked. I for one intend to prove
    > them wrong. I hope that the rest of the world doies the same.


    Could also add Photocopier companys! (I no longer work for one anymore)

    > <phew> I've got better things to do on such a nasty/hot day anyway.
    >
    > TTFN,

    As usal a Good comentry from a regular.

    --
    http://cooze.co.nz home of the RecyclerMan aka Robert Cooze

    / __/ / / / / /__ / / ___/ / __/ / / / |/ / /__ /
    / / / /_/ / / /_/ / _-' / __/ / / / /_/ / / /| / _-'
    ___\ ____/ ____/ /___/ /____/ /_/ ___\ ____/ /_/ /_/ |_/ /___/
    RecyclerMan (Robert Cooze), Jan 26, 2008
    #11
  12. peterwn

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Somewhere on teh intarweb "RecyclerMan (Robert Cooze)"
    <""nopants66\"@hotmail.c o m" typed:
    > ~misfit~ wrote:
    >> Somewhere on teh intarweb "RecyclerMan (Robert Cooze)"
    >> <""nopants66\"@hotmail.c o m" typed:
    >>> peterwn wrote:
    >>>> See:
    >>>>
    >>>> http://groups.google.co.nz/group/co...hread/bab3d05b2fc6e22c?hl=en#9693bb67d6af0954
    >>>>
    >>>> or
    >>>>
    >>>> http://tinyurl.com/2v9ke7
    >>>>
    >>>> ,----[ Quote ]
    >>>>> A new report from the U.K. Office of Government Commerce about
    >>>>> Open Source Software Trials in Government, has found that servers
    >>>>> running Linux could combat the rising problem of e-waste because
    >>>>> they last up to twice as long as machines running Windows.
    >>>> `----
    >>>>
    >>>> Linux Could Prevent Use of 4,200,000,000 kg of Fossil Fuels a Year
    >>>>
    >>>> NZ needs to take note too. why should we all be locked in on an
    >>>> obsolescence treadmill dictated by Microsoft and Intel.
    >>> Does It sound good?
    >>> I dont know!
    >>>
    >>> You see some components on a Pc Motherbord only have a limited life!
    >>> Like a light bulb and others just have a time span fom manufacture.
    >>> Old hardware is ok for the home or if you have plenty of scrap
    >>> spaires lying arroud. But if you have a Enterprise setup you want
    >>> hardware relibility. New is the way to go with a replacemt date and
    >>> paln. It does not matter what OS you are using Broken Hardware is
    >>> broken Hardware and Hardware breaks with Age!

    >>
    >> Cheaply-made hardware breaks with age. I know that includes just
    >> about all Dell/HP/Compaq... at least non-server-class equipment.

    >
    > Ok Most in fact all of my Hardware in my house is Old!!! My Pc is a
    > AMD Athlon 900 with an Irongate chipset! I had a Dell that was
    > younger that when hot if it had more than 64Mb ram it would have
    > memory errors.... Everything elce in the house is sombodys cast off
    > or the such...


    The majority of the PC stuff in my house is hand-me-downs too. In fact what
    prompted me to build a new PC was being given a 7800GT PCIe graphics card as
    "payment" for building a new quad-core system for a friend. (He knows that I
    won't/can't take money for PC builds/upgrades/repairs as I'm on an invalid
    benefit and would have to declare it [I built his last three PCs, he's a
    cutting-edge gamer] so he "pays" me in surplus-to-requirements components.)

    >> However, since the bad capacitor debacle there's no reason why a
    >> modern non-budget motherboard shouldn't last for many, many years.
    >> Same with the RAM and CPU. If you start with quality components
    >> these days the only things likely to "break with age" are mechanical
    >> components like HDDs and optical drives.

    >
    > Yep my orignal 2Gig drive is still running but a 20gig drive I bought
    > about 8 years ago bit the dust big time :(


    Yeah, it's my experience that most drives of a capacity of more than 2 GB
    and less than ~80 GB seemed to not last long. I don't know if it was due to
    some advances in technology going faster than bearing technology but I've
    found that, since fluid bearing became ubiquitous HDDs seem to last quite
    well again, as long as they're kept cool. It's the ones made between about
    '96 and '00 that

    >> I guess the moral of the story is; If you buy quality and maintain
    >> it (blow out dust periodically) there's no reason why you can't use
    >> it for decades, just imaging (from a new install of course) and
    >> replacing the HDDs and CMOS batteries every three years (or whatever
    >> arbitrary time you want to put on it).

    >
    > My machine has had all the fans replaced (ones with ball bearings)
    > twice and the cleanable ones have been cleaned and lubed often.


    I'm the same, lube sleeve bearing and replace ball bearing fans when they
    get too noisy. The worst problem I have with fans is the cheap little buzzy
    things on graphics cards. Usually they're proprietary and you can't just
    (easilly) use an off-the-shelf replacement. Annoying when the graphics card
    can be a significant slice of the cost of the computer. :-(

    >> My latest motherboard is an Asus P5K-E which has no "wet"
    >> electrolytic caps, (the most common point-of-failure historically)
    >> they're all conductive polymer caps and, as such, shouldn't fail for
    >> a very long time. It's also capable of running the 45nm Intel CPUs
    >> so I should be able to replace my Core 2 Duo with a 'Penryn' Core 2
    >> Quad in about 18 months or so when they become more affordable.
    >> Hopefully the core of this machine will last me 10 years at least,
    >> maybe a lot longer.

    >
    > I only had one motherbord with the bad caps a soyo one... I wish I
    > could afford a new PC The preformance of the the current generation
    > is quight stagering and some of the percived problems of the older
    > setups are just gone! Unfortnutly money houses the Family and feeds
    > em and whats left over goes into the car.


    Yeah, I hear you. I couldn't really afford a new PC either. However, I'm a
    single man and I have an A+/strong Standard & Poors credit rating so the
    parts went on the credit card. A momentary lapse of reason, especially as I
    don't like to buy "cheap" components that are likely to fail quickly. I
    ended up racking up quite a bill. I did sell my previous best (AGP) graphics
    card and used that money towards the new system. I'm hoping that the core of
    this system will last me a good long time.

    >> I have a couple of five year old Soltek nForce2 Ultra400 mobos here
    >> that are still running just fine, although I've had to re-cap them.
    >> I don't see why they shouldn't keep going for a few years at least
    >> yet. Maybe by then I'll be able to source conductive polymer caps at
    >> a reasonable price to put in those too.

    >
    > From one point that is a good point to have. Now You and I can replace
    > the caps on our machines if they need replacing (if It dont work well
    > nothing lost I guess) but a busness the machine has to work with the
    > least amount of downtime. Most IT personal spend too much time fixing
    > the soft part of the machine that hardware faults (old machines) are
    > just too hard to fix quickly.


    Understood. That's why I'd like to see a regulatory body and motherboards,
    components and whole machines rated as "built to last". Couple that with
    government incentives to not buy cheap shit (reduce the allowable
    depreciation on the stuff that doesn't measure up perhaps, coupled with a
    one-off rebate for buying aproved machines) and we could stop this dumping
    of three year old PCs and all the waste and inefficiency that goes with it.

    >> I guess that my point is quality solid-state components used in
    >> situations with 'tolerances' have very long life-times. The only
    >> reasons I can see to be stuck in a three-year complete machine
    >> replacement cycle is: a) They're cheaply made to start with.
    >> b) The users are in that small minority who actually *need* a power
    >> upgrade. c) It's easier to plug in a new machine than it is to
    >> 'refurbish' an older one and replace the HDD.
    >> d) <shrug> We can write them off, they've already been depreciated
    >> 80% anyway. <shrug/don't give a **** about the environment>
    >>
    >> Modern CPUs have all the power that a
    >> receptionist/data-entry/average-office-worker will ever need as long
    >> as they don't buy into OS and App. bloat. All that is needed is wise
    >> choices when purchasing (maybe spending a bit more to get a quality
    >> machine) and, as mentioned, perhaps HDD replacement every few years,
    >> until solid-state storage is affordable enough to supercede HDDs.

    >
    > Fanless would be the way to go a 100% extruded aloy cace with heat
    > pipes would solve the fan issue and would help make the optical
    > drives last a little longer. hopefuly the cost of the cace would be
    > offset by the incresed lifespan of the computer.


    Fanless and long life is very hard to achieve with modern components.
    Impossible without spending big bucks. I went pretty much the total opposite
    of fanless and bought the second case reviewed on this page:

    http://pcworld.co.nz/pcworld/pcw.nsf/reviews/56FC71DAD9E5C67BCC2571ED000C70D2

    I'm really impressed with it. The big fan only runs at around 500rpm and is
    virtually silent. However, it sure does move some air, cooling the whole of
    the motherboard in the process. I wish I could afford to buy a few of them
    and put my other PCs into them, it's that impressive, especially when you
    take value for money into account.

    >> I'm no Linux advocate. In fact I don't run a Linux machine. However,
    >> I'll *never* run Vista or any later Microsoft OS unless it's
    >> specifically designed to be light on CPU requirements and is an
    >> improvement over XP Pro. (In fact I'm watching XP updates carefully
    >> as I wouldn't put it past MS to slowly cripple XP in an effort to
    >> get the users to "upgrade". If Microsoft doen't fulfill my needs
    >> then I'l have to look elsewhere for an OS. (Hopefully it'll be a
    >> little more user-friendly and run all my games.)

    >
    > I use Linux and Windows, Use the best OS for the job... from what I
    > have seen Vista is realy full of blote as well as the latest office
    > (from Microsoft) mind you open office is a resorce hog on my machine
    > but It goes! I can get a 3 to 4 year cycle out of WinXp before it
    > needs rebuilding... I have never had a desktop linux distro last more
    > than 6 months before upgrade to newer or it breaks under its own
    > update system.


    I'm using XP Pro on my main machine and have imaged the OS partition (all 5
    GB of it, fits on a DVD-R) as soon as I had everything installed. I also
    imaged the programmes partition (15 GB). I've adopted this approach for a
    while now. No more re-installs. If Windows goes belly-up I just restore it
    from the image. The beauty of using Seagate drives is the extremely useful
    (free download) Seatools application. It's a cut-down version of Acronis
    True Image and can be started from a bootable CD/DVD, then the image that
    you want to restore can be located either on the machine itself, or on the
    network or you can even take the bootable media out and put a DVD in that
    contains the image (I guess you need a certain amount of RAM for this to be
    possible but I've never had a problem with it).

    >> Two business' call their clients "users", software designers and
    >> drugs suplliers. They both think they've got you hooked. I for one
    >> intend to prove them wrong. I hope that the rest of the world doies
    >> the same.

    >
    > Could also add Photocopier companys! (I no longer work for one
    > anymore)


    Heh!

    >> <phew> I've got better things to do on such a nasty/hot day anyway.
    >>

    > As usal a Good comentry from a regular.


    Thanks. Two things I care about; Responsible use of resources and computer
    hardware. <g>

    Cheers,
    --
    Shaun.
    ~misfit~, Jan 27, 2008
    #12
  13. peterwn

    impossible Guest

    "Lawrence D'Oliveiro" <_zealand> wrote in message
    news:fnev89$tck$...
    > In article <479a3ace$>, RecyclerMan (Robert Cooze) did
    > write:
    >
    >> But if you have a Enterprise setup you want hardware relibility.
    >> New is the way to go with a replacemt date and paln. It does not matter
    >> what OS you are using Broken Hardware is broken Hardware and Hardware
    >> breaks with Age!

    >
    > No it doesn't. It breaks largely at random. New hardware can break under
    > warranty. Old hardware can keep on chugging for years--it's hard to
    > predict
    > what will break when.


    There's nothing "random" about hardware failure. Manufacturers engineer
    their products to known specifications and price their parts/labor
    warranties accordingly. Buyers who intend to keep their jobs learn to make
    the appropriate judgments about upgrades and replacements with this kind of
    probability data in mind.

    > Replacing computer stuff that isn't broken doesn't
    > improve reliability, it just increases costs.
    >


    Waiting until the moment when something breaks to pull the trigger on a
    purchase is a sure-fire way to put your company out of business.

    > And yes, there are enterprises still relying on old servers that have been
    > running quite happily, forgotten, in the back of a closet for years.


    Along with old staff and old ideas -- yes, leave it to you to turn a
    hackneyed anecdote into a business model.l.
    impossible, Jan 27, 2008
    #13
  14. In article <>, peterwn <> wrote:
    (snip)
    >> Because it keeps the GDP up. Read keeps the economy growing well. ;-

    >
    >I could not care a hoot about China's or Redmond's GDP - it is not
    >going to keep the NZ GDP up.


    GDP is an irrelevant and easily manipulated estimate (read "guess" :) ) of
    "economic activity". Doesn't measure production or efficiency in any way (in
    fact, inefficiency can increase it ... more activity. :)
    Bruce Sinclair, Jan 28, 2008
    #14
  15. In article <fnj44g$tgf$>, Bruce Sinclair did write:

    > GDP is an irrelevant and easily manipulated estimate (read "guess" :) ) of
    > "economic activity". Doesn't measure production or efficiency in any way
    > (in fact, inefficiency can increase it ... more activity. :)


    Can you give examples of how it has been manipulated? Are there countries
    with higher GDP but lower production?
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Jan 28, 2008
    #15
    1. Advertising

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

It takes just 2 minutes to sign up (and it's free!). Just click the sign up button to choose a username and then you can ask your own questions on the forum.
Similar Threads
  1. Alvaro G. Vicario

    Green spots..

    Alvaro G. Vicario, Jan 23, 2004, in forum: Firefox
    Replies:
    3
    Views:
    484
  2. William W. Plummer

    Re: What does this green blob mean?

    William W. Plummer, Oct 10, 2004, in forum: Firefox
    Replies:
    2
    Views:
    664
    William W. Plummer
    Oct 11, 2004
  3. boki
    Replies:
    1
    Views:
    706
    Supervisor
    Mar 25, 2005
  4. Silverstrand
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    890
    Silverstrand
    Nov 1, 2006
  5. dfinc
    Replies:
    5
    Views:
    892
    dfinc
    Sep 16, 2009
Loading...

Share This Page