GREEDY Apple wanted 30% of sales for doing almost NOTHING

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by RichA, Aug 10, 2011.

  1. RichA

    RichA Guest

    RichA, Aug 10, 2011
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. RichA

    PeterN Guest

    PeterN, Aug 10, 2011
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. RichA

    PeterN Guest

    Rich misquots again. Was Re: GREEDY Apple wanted 30% of sales fordoing almost NOTHING

    On 8/10/2011 11:36 AM, RichA wrote:
    > Except act as a conduit. Scum. Nice to see companies bailing on
    > them.
    >
    > http://money.cnn.com/2011/08/10/technology/kindle_cloud/index.htm?hpt=te_bn2
    >


    According to the article, Amazon is not bailing out.
    "An Amazon representative said the company will not pull its iOS Kindle
    app from Apple's App Store, and that Kindle Cloud was not a direct
    response to Apple's new rules



    --
    Peter
    PeterN, Aug 10, 2011
    #3
  4. RichA

    ray Guest

    ray, Aug 10, 2011
    #4
  5. RichA

    RichA Guest

    On Aug 10, 11:53 am, PeterN <> wrote:
    > On 8/10/2011 11:36 AM, RichA wrote:
    >
    > > Except act as a conduit.  Scum.  Nice to see companies bailing on
    > > them.

    >
    > >http://money.cnn.com/2011/08/10/technology/kindle_cloud/index.htm?hpt...

    >
    > It's called competition.
    >
    > --
    > Peter


    If you think they are adding 30% value, compared to the CREATOR of the
    songs, the engineers, etc, you are a F------ IDIOT.
    RichA, Aug 10, 2011
    #5
  6. RichA

    RichA Guest

    Re: Rich misquots again. Was Re: GREEDY Apple wanted 30% of sales fordoing almost NOTHING

    On Aug 10, 11:58 am, PeterN <> wrote:
    > On 8/10/2011 11:36 AM, RichA wrote:
    >
    > > Except act as a conduit.  Scum.  Nice to see companies bailing on
    > > them.

    >
    > >http://money.cnn.com/2011/08/10/technology/kindle_cloud/index.htm?hpt...

    >
    > According to the article, Amazon is not bailing out.
    > "An Amazon representative said the company will not pull its iOS Kindle
    > app from Apple's App Store, and that Kindle Cloud was not a direct
    > response to Apple's new rules
    >
    > --
    > Peter


    Not yet, but these certainly presages it:

    As publishers grow tired of changing their apps to comply with Apple's
    -- or any app store's -- new rules, HTML5 represents an attractive
    prospect. Keep it all on the Web, and you're not beholden to anyone.

    The Financial Times and ESPN have each built new mobile apps in HTML5.

    Amazon didn't name Apple in its press release, but it did take pains
    to specifically point out one of the Kindle Cloud's features: "Without
    even leaving the app, customers can start shopping in the Kindle
    Store."
    RichA, Aug 10, 2011
    #6
  7. RichA

    tony cooper Guest

    On Wed, 10 Aug 2011 11:41:28 -0700 (PDT), RichA <>
    wrote:

    >On Aug 10, 11:53 am, PeterN <> wrote:
    >> On 8/10/2011 11:36 AM, RichA wrote:
    >>
    >> > Except act as a conduit.  Scum.  Nice to see companies bailing on
    >> > them.

    >>
    >> >http://money.cnn.com/2011/08/10/technology/kindle_cloud/index.htm?hpt...

    >>
    >> It's called competition.
    >>
    >> --
    >> Peter

    >
    >If you think they are adding 30% value, compared to the CREATOR of the
    >songs, the engineers, etc, you are a F------ IDIOT.


    Right. The delivery system probably adds *more* than 30% of the value
    to the product.

    Without the delivery system, the product has no value.

    If you invent and make a product of any kind, and attempt to sell it
    through distributors, the price you sell it to them for (your value)
    will be doubled or tripled or more in the marketplace. A song is just
    another product.



    --
    Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
    tony cooper, Aug 10, 2011
    #7
  8. RichA

    nospam Guest

    In article
    <>,
    RichA <> wrote:

    so does the android marketplace and microsoft windows phone, and it's
    not for doing 'almost nothing.'
    nospam, Aug 10, 2011
    #8
  9. RichA

    PeterN Guest

    RICHA fails to think again Was: Re: GREEDY Apple wanted 30% of salesfor doing almost NOTHING

    On 8/10/2011 2:41 PM, RichA wrote:
    > On Aug 10, 11:53 am, PeterN<> wrote:
    >> On 8/10/2011 11:36 AM, RichA wrote:
    >>
    >>> Except act as a conduit. Scum. Nice to see companies bailing on
    >>> them.

    >>
    >>> http://money.cnn.com/2011/08/10/technology/kindle_cloud/index.htm?hpt...

    >>
    >> It's called competition.
    >>
    >> --
    >> Peter

    >
    > If you think they are adding 30% value, compared to the CREATOR of the
    > songs, the engineers, etc, you are a F------ IDIOT.



    Again you are using personal name calling to substitute for logic. That
    doesn't work as a diversion. If you create a song and I can market it
    for you your choice is either pay me 50%, or go elsewhere.
    When I had my office, anyone who needed my services would either pay my
    fees, or go elsewhere. If I charge too much, competition will force me
    to lower my fees. What makes you think that Apple has an obligation to
    the world to make its services available for nothing? Your logic is
    straight from the Kumunist Manifesto. You don't even realize it.

    --
    Peter
    PeterN, Aug 10, 2011
    #9
  10. RichA

    John A. Guest

    On Wed, 10 Aug 2011 08:36:59 -0700 (PDT), RichA <>
    wrote:

    >Except act as a conduit. Scum. Nice to see companies bailing on
    >them.
    >
    >http://money.cnn.com/2011/08/10/technology/kindle_cloud/index.htm?hpt=te_bn2


    Well, I read the article, and it seems to me this is analogous to a
    printing service wanting a cut of the sales from the catalogs it
    prints for retailers. The main difference is technical viability, but
    that doesn't mean it's gonna fly.
    John A., Aug 11, 2011
    #10
  11. RichA

    Whisky-dave Guest

    On Aug 10, 7:41 pm, RichA <> wrote:
    > On Aug 10, 11:53 am, PeterN <> wrote:
    >
    > > On 8/10/2011 11:36 AM, RichA wrote:

    >
    > > > Except act as a conduit.  Scum.  Nice to see companies bailing on
    > > > them.

    >
    > > >http://money.cnn.com/2011/08/10/technology/kindle_cloud/index.htm?hpt....

    >
    > > It's called competition.

    >
    > > --
    > > Peter

    >
    > If you think they are adding 30% value, compared to the CREATOR of the
    > songs, the engineers, etc, you are a F------ IDIOT.


    I';m not sure how all retailers work butI was under the impressiojn
    that profit
    margins were quite high 50% from manufactorer to retailer.

    Someone here must have a better idea of how say a camera shop buys a
    Nikon/canon
    and how much they sell it for ........
    Whisky-dave, Aug 11, 2011
    #11
  12. RichA

    John A. Guest

    On Thu, 11 Aug 2011 04:09:21 -0700 (PDT), Whisky-dave
    <> wrote:

    >On Aug 10, 7:41 pm, RichA <> wrote:
    >> On Aug 10, 11:53 am, PeterN <> wrote:
    >>
    >> > On 8/10/2011 11:36 AM, RichA wrote:

    >>
    >> > > Except act as a conduit.  Scum.  Nice to see companies bailing on
    >> > > them.

    >>
    >> > >http://money.cnn.com/2011/08/10/technology/kindle_cloud/index.htm?hpt...

    >>
    >> > It's called competition.

    >>
    >> > --
    >> > Peter

    >>
    >> If you think they are adding 30% value, compared to the CREATOR of the
    >> songs, the engineers, etc, you are a F------ IDIOT.

    >
    >I';m not sure how all retailers work butI was under the impressiojn
    >that profit
    >margins were quite high 50% from manufactorer to retailer.
    >
    >Someone here must have a better idea of how say a camera shop buys a
    >Nikon/canon
    >and how much they sell it for ........


    Margins vary. I hear for books, food, cars, and high-end electronics
    it's pretty narrow.
    John A., Aug 11, 2011
    #12
  13. tony cooper <> wrote:

    [Apple taking 30%]

    > Right. The delivery system probably adds *more* than 30% of the value
    > to the product.


    > Without the delivery system, the product has no value.


    > If you invent and make a product of any kind, and attempt to sell it
    > through distributors, the price you sell it to them for (your value)
    > will be doubled or tripled or more in the marketplace. A song is just
    > another product.


    If you say so. Of course you have no numbers.


    I haven't seen Apple do anything for the average song, the average
    app or the average content that would create much of value.
    They don't press CDs or records and distribute them through
    brick and motar shops. They don't print and distribute catalogs.
    They don't rate the music. At best they display them sorted as
    per the artist's or record lable's indications.

    If that's worth 30%, then distributing, storing and selling
    physical goods must be worth some 10000%.

    -Wolfgang
    Wolfgang Weisselberg, Aug 14, 2011
    #13
  14. Alan Browne <> wrote:
    > On 2011-08-10 13:11 , ray wrote:
    >> On Wed, 10 Aug 2011 08:36:59 -0700, RichA wrote:


    >>> Except act as a conduit. Scum. Nice to see companies bailing on them.


    > Typical Rich. Do you have any idea of the marketing costs that would
    > give a small App writer equivalent international exposure?


    > Some people have become millionaires writing Apps for the iPod/iPhone.


    And some people have become millionaires in the lottery.

    > I'm sure the 30% fee seems a blessing to them - and they don't even need
    > to account for it in their books.


    Ask those that want to sell content. And no, they cannot make it
    cheaper outside the Apple marketplace. Apple's app store & co is
    a monopoly and charging monopoly prices. If there was a way to
    build a meaningful competition outside having to jailbreak every
    iPhone and iPad, the situation would remedy itself pretty quickly.

    Then above named millionaires of yours would pay only 15% or 10%
    or even 5%[1] and could have given the difference to charity.

    -Wolfgang

    [1] having worked at a place which is the interface between
    programmer and buyer --- and they took something like 1$ and 3%
    (and the market back then wasn't apps, but computer software)
    --- this margin isn't impossible.
    Wolfgang Weisselberg, Aug 14, 2011
    #14
  15. RichA

    Whisky-dave Guest

    On Aug 14, 4:28 pm, Wolfgang Weisselberg <>
    wrote:
    > tony cooper <> wrote:
    >
    > [Apple taking 30%]
    >
    > > Right.  The delivery system probably adds *more* than 30% of the value
    > > to the product.
    > > Without the delivery system, the product has no value.  
    > > If you invent and make a product of any kind, and attempt to sell it
    > > through distributors, the price you sell it to them for (your value)
    > > will be doubled or tripled or more in the marketplace.  A song is just
    > > another product.

    >
    > If you say so.  Of course you have no numbers.
    >
    > I haven't seen Apple do anything for the average song, the average
    > app or the average content that would create much of value.


    Well for me I trust that any download from the app store will not give
    me some virus or
    do anything it shouldn;t as the apps submitted do go through checks.
    I also believe that download a game from the app store is a game and
    not something which will havest
    any personal information such as CC details and transmit them to
    someone else.
    Not sure I feel the same about programs and the exe files I see on
    websites.

    A friend that sets up comerial websites charges about £200 for a very
    basic design
    so how much do Apple charge for doing a webpage and advertsing...
    Another friend set up a CC charging system for book buying but that
    cost over £1,500 in fees
    to the CC company/checker.... .

    > They don't press CDs or records and distribute them through
    > brick and motar shops.  They don't print and distribute catalogs.
    > They don't rate the music.


    And you think what 'Apple' likes is relivant to what you like ?
    Will teh average record shop allow me to play 10 seconds of anything I
    want to hear in the shop .... NO
    Will they allow me to choose the tracks I won't off an album and not
    charge me for the ones I don;t want ... NO


    >  At best they display them sorted as
    > per the artist's or record lable's indications.


    And make them easily availble virtually anywhere and with iCloud it'll
    be backed up.
    if you loose your record or Album or it gets destryoed by fire or
    theft ,
    does Ploydor or EMI replace a lost or scrtached record for free ?

    Apple allows yuo to make up to 5 copies the music industry won;t even
    let you make one copy.


    > If that's worth 30%, then distributing, storing and selling
    > physical goods must be worth some 10000%.
    >
    > -Wolfgang
    Whisky-dave, Aug 15, 2011
    #15
  16. Whisky-dave <> wrote:
    > On Aug 14, 4:28 pm, Wolfgang Weisselberg <>
    > wrote:
    >> tony cooper <> wrote:


    >> [Apple taking 30%]


    >> > Right.  The delivery system probably adds *more* than 30% of the value
    >> > to the product.
    >> > Without the delivery system, the product has no value.  
    >> > If you invent and make a product of any kind, and attempt to sell it
    >> > through distributors, the price you sell it to them for (your value)
    >> > will be doubled or tripled or more in the marketplace.  A song is just
    >> > another product.


    >> If you say so.  Of course you have no numbers.


    >> I haven't seen Apple do anything for the average song, the average
    >> app or the average content that would create much of value.


    > Well for me I trust that any download from the app store will not give
    > me some virus or
    > do anything it shouldn;t as the apps submitted do go through checks.


    OK, that's one point. After all, some (music!) CDs install root kits.

    But Apple's check isn't very thorough.


    > I also believe that download a game from the app store is a game and
    > not something which will havest
    > any personal information such as CC details and transmit them to
    > someone else.


    Apple doesn't check that.

    > Not sure I feel the same about programs and the exe files I see on
    > websites.


    Feelings are important.


    > A friend that sets up comerial websites charges about £200 for a very
    > basic design


    I think he's overcharging. There are many 'click your own website'
    tools that can do that for a lot less.

    > so how much do Apple charge for doing a webpage and advertsing...


    Too much. After all, your average app isn't showcased or anything.

    > Another friend set up a CC charging system for book buying but that
    > cost over £1,500 in fees
    > to the CC company/checker.... .


    And I have a decade experience with working with 'CC charging
    systems' (and lots of other payment options as well), and they
    don't charge 30%. Not by an order of magnitude. And they do
    fraud checking. And offering the stuff for download. And giving
    support to buyers and sellers.


    >> They don't press CDs or records and distribute them through
    >> brick and motar shops.  They don't print and distribute catalogs.
    >> They don't rate the music.


    > And you think what 'Apple' likes is relivant to what you like ?


    Huh?

    > Will teh average record shop allow me to play 10 seconds of anything I
    > want to hear in the shop .... NO


    Oh, good shops will allow you to listen to much more, and
    will give you personal attention and introduce you to music
    you didn't know you liked. And will have rare stuff. And
    never dabbled with DRM.

    > Will they allow me to choose the tracks I won't off an album and not
    > charge me for the ones I don;t want ... NO


    Will Apple allow you to download the CD booklet or the record
    sleeve?

    >>  At best they display them sorted as
    >> per the artist's or record lable's indications.


    > And make them easily availble virtually anywhere and with iCloud it'll
    > be backed up.


    And you lost all your data how often?

    > if you loose your record or Album or it gets destryoed by fire or
    > theft ,
    > does Ploydor or EMI replace a lost or scrtached record for free ?


    And how often did that happen to you, and did you remember
    the mail access and password and all to your iTunes account
    and what will happen if someone finds out that password (and
    opens up everything under that password)?


    > Apple allows yuo to make up to 5 copies the music industry won;t even
    > let you make one copy.


    Off my CDs I can make as many copies as I like, and of the data
    therein, whether raw or Ogg Vorbis or MP1 Layer 3 or Layer 2 or
    whatever I can make as many backups (including cloud based backups)
    as I like.


    -Wolfgang
    Wolfgang Weisselberg, Aug 16, 2011
    #16
  17. "Wolfgang Weisselberg" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    []
    > Off my CDs I can make as many copies as I like, and of the data
    > therein, whether raw or Ogg Vorbis or MP1 Layer 3 or Layer 2 or
    > whatever I can make as many backups (including cloud based backups)
    > as I like.
    >
    >
    > -Wolfgang


    Currently, that's illegal in the UK, although the law should be changing.

    Cheers,
    David
    David J Taylor, Aug 16, 2011
    #17
  18. RichA

    Whisky-dave Guest

    On Aug 16, 4:53 pm, Wolfgang Weisselberg <>
    wrote:
    > Whisky-dave <> wrote:
    > > On Aug 14, 4:28 pm, Wolfgang Weisselberg <>
    > > wrote:
    > >> tony cooper <> wrote:
    > >> [Apple taking 30%]
    > >> > Right.  The delivery system probably adds *more* than 30% of the value
    > >> > to the product.
    > >> > Without the delivery system, the product has no value.  
    > >> > If you invent and make a product of any kind, and attempt to sell it
    > >> > through distributors, the price you sell it to them for (your value)
    > >> > will be doubled or tripled or more in the marketplace.  A song is just
    > >> > another product.
    > >> If you say so.  Of course you have no numbers.
    > >> I haven't seen Apple do anything for the average song, the average
    > >> app or the average content that would create much of value.

    > > Well for me I trust that any download from the app store will not give
    > > me some virus or
    > > do anything it shouldn;t as the apps submitted do go through checks.

    >
    > OK, that's one point.  After all, some (music!) CDs install root kits.


    I've yet to come accross that but what is a root kit ?

    >
    > But Apple's check isn't very thorough.


    Maybe it doesn;t need to be because the OS is more secure.
    I'm resonabbly confident that anything I download fronm the aple
    storte will work as stated (within reason)
    I don;t expecxt the apps to harvest my information and sent it to a
    thrid party or any scammers.
    I don;t feel teh same way about going to a website I've never heard of
    that calims the App when downloaded will attract loose women.
    If the app store had such an app I woulkd assume it works and might
    try it.
    For me that adds value to the App store.

    Maybe I'm more careful than most, it's only recently I've started to
    trust amazon for purchses.

    > > I also believe that download a game from the app store is a game and
    > > not something which will havest
    > > any personal information such as CC details and transmit them to
    > > someone else.

    >
    > Apple doesn't check that.


    So who does then, I didn;t last time I brought an app or music.


    > > Not sure I feel the same about programs and the exe files I see on
    > > websites.

    >
    > Feelings are important.


    Yep, nothing quite like a quick feel.

    >
    > > A friend that sets up comerial websites charges about £200 for a very
    > > basic design

    >
    > I think he's overcharging.  There are many 'click your own website'
    > tools that can do that for a lot less.


    Yes but you have to know what you are doing.
    If someone came to you and said, I've got a couple of hundred books on
    homopathic remedies and
    I'd like to sell them from my own website where people can click to
    buy
    and I want to expand in a few months to include the remidies too.
    What site would you suggest she goes to to set this sort of thing up ?


    >
    > > so how much do Apple charge for doing a webpage and advertsing...

    >
    > Too much.  After all, your average app isn't showcased or anything.


    Actually it is for a short time, if it's good enough then you might
    even get a staff pick.
    But being able to difect someone to a place where they can order is a
    great advantage
    and peole do trust the App store.

    >
    > > Another friend set up a CC charging system for book buying but that
    > > cost over £1,500 in fees
    > > to the CC company/checker.... .

    >
    > And I have a decade experience with working with 'CC charging
    > systems' (and lots of other payment options as well), and they
    > don't charge 30%.  Not by an order of magnitude.  And they do
    > fraud checking.  And offering the stuff for download.  And giving
    > support to buyers and sellers.


    So what credit card broker is that then ?
    How does the system work, if it is really that easy why do so many use
    paypal ?


    >
    > >> They don't press CDs or records and distribute them through
    > >> brick and motar shops.  They don't print and distribute catalogs.
    > >> They don't rate the music.

    > > And you think what 'Apple' likes is relivant to what you like ?

    >
    > Huh?


    Why do you want Apple to rate music, are you looking to purchase steve
    Job favs ?
    I don;t care if millions like Mariah carey, it won;t influence my
    purchase, same goes with art,
    but when it comes to software then that's different .


    >
    > > Will teh average record shop allow me to play 10 seconds of anything I
    > > want to hear in the shop .... NO

    >
    > Oh, good shops will allow you to listen to much more,


    There aren;t any good shops.

    >and
    > will give you personal attention and introduce you to music
    > you didn't know you liked.  And will have rare stuff.  And
    > never dabbled with DRM.


    Thos eplaces are very rare nowadays you must be going back to when my
    mum brought rock 'n' roll
    she and her friends spend hours in record stores in special boothes
    with headsets it was quite common.
    Maybe one or two still exist, but the last one(independant) on my
    borough closed down 26 years ago.

    >
    > > Will they allow me to choose the tracks I won't off an album and not
    > > charge me for the ones I don;t want ... NO

    >
    > Will Apple allow you to download the CD booklet or the record
    > sleeve?


    Yes it's called album art work, in fact even some music I've (cough)
    borrowed
    I get the art work via iTunes. I'mm hoiping that with icloud perhaps
    some of these borrowed tracks
    will be upgradeed to 256kb ACC rather than my borrowed MP3s av 96-128K
    or whatever they are.


    >
    > >>  At best they display them sorted as
    > >> per the artist's or record lable's indications.

    > > And make them easily availble virtually anywhere and with iCloud it'll
    > > be backed up.

    >
    > And you lost all your data how often?


    Only a couple of times when I was messing withy itunes and trashed the
    disc before
    backing up or deleting tracks I didn;t want but later did want.
    Now I know I don;t have to backup my itunes purchases.
    if I delete or my computer gets stolen I don;t need to rebuy my
    purchsed music from itunes
    unlike my friend who was broken into and hios CDs taken Plydor/EMI and
    other never offered to
    let him have the music back for free, evenj though he has paid the
    money for them as he actually brough the 'rights'
    to listen tom the music rather than the music itself.
    So a real con job there.

    >
    > >  if you loose your record or Album or it gets destryoed  by fire or
    > > theft ,
    > > does Ploydor or EMI replace a lost or scrtached record for free ?

    >
    > And how often did that happen to you,

    Not to me but as above a friend did get there's stolen.

    > and did you remember
    > the mail access and password and all to your iTunes account
    > and what will happen if someone finds out that password (and
    > opens up everything under that password)?


    Not really sure, but it does't; stop me getting everything back that
    I've purchsed from
    either iTunes or the app store.

    I wonder if those that vsuffter hurrican katrina or teh tsunamis last
    their music collect ?
    Did those that sold them their music give it back to them ?

    >
    > > Apple allows yuo to make up to 5 copies the music industry won;t even
    > > let you make one copy.

    >
    > Off my CDs I can make as many copies as I like, and of the data
    > therein, whether raw or Ogg Vorbis or MP1 Layer 3 or Layer 2 or
    > whatever I can make as many backups (including cloud based backups)
    > as I like.


    As indicated by another David that is not the case in the UK or most
    of the world, I think
    it should be, but it isn't .
    Same goes withy films legally in the UK mI'm not even supose to record
    TV show and let others
    from another houshold watch them because In don;t have distributiojn
    rights.
    Same with music, I'm not allowed to play it in clubs or venues I need
    a license for that.


    >
    > -Wolfgang
    Whisky-dave, Aug 17, 2011
    #18
  19. RichA

    John A. Guest

    On Wed, 17 Aug 2011 04:30:47 -0700 (PDT), Whisky-dave
    <> wrote:

    >On Aug 16, 4:53 pm, Wolfgang Weisselberg <>
    >wrote:
    >> Whisky-dave <> wrote:
    >> > On Aug 14, 4:28 pm, Wolfgang Weisselberg <>
    >> > wrote:
    >> >> tony cooper <> wrote:
    >> >> [Apple taking 30%]
    >> >> > Right.  The delivery system probably adds *more* than 30% of the value
    >> >> > to the product.
    >> >> > Without the delivery system, the product has no value.  
    >> >> > If you invent and make a product of any kind, and attempt to sell it
    >> >> > through distributors, the price you sell it to them for (your value)
    >> >> > will be doubled or tripled or more in the marketplace.  A song is just
    >> >> > another product.
    >> >> If you say so.  Of course you have no numbers.
    >> >> I haven't seen Apple do anything for the average song, the average
    >> >> app or the average content that would create much of value.
    >> > Well for me I trust that any download from the app store will not give
    >> > me some virus or
    >> > do anything it shouldn;t as the apps submitted do go through checks.

    >>
    >> OK, that's one point.  After all, some (music!) CDs install root kits.

    >
    >I've yet to come accross that but what is a root kit ?


    If you don't know what they are, how do you know you haven't come
    across one?

    [...]

    >> > A friend that sets up comerial websites charges about £200 for a very
    >> > basic design

    >>
    >> I think he's overcharging.  There are many 'click your own website'
    >> tools that can do that for a lot less.

    >
    >Yes but you have to know what you are doing.
    >If someone came to you and said, I've got a couple of hundred books on
    >homopathic remedies and
    >I'd like to sell them from my own website where people can click to
    >buy
    >and I want to expand in a few months to include the remidies too.
    >What site would you suggest she goes to to set this sort of thing up ?


    I'd suggest that they'd probably sell more if they spelled
    'homeopathic' correctly, but then again to people who believe in
    homeopathic remedies that might not matter. ;)

    [...]

    >> > Another friend set up a CC charging system for book buying but that
    >> > cost over £1,500 in fees
    >> > to the CC company/checker.... .

    >>
    >> And I have a decade experience with working with 'CC charging
    >> systems' (and lots of other payment options as well), and they
    >> don't charge 30%.  Not by an order of magnitude.  And they do
    >> fraud checking.  And offering the stuff for download.  And giving
    >> support to buyers and sellers.

    >
    >So what credit card broker is that then ?
    >How does the system work, if it is really that easy why do so many use
    >paypal ?


    With a merchant account you're typically charged about $0.25-0.50 per
    transaction plus about 1.5%-4% of the total, depending on things like
    the nature of the business (online vs b&m), type of card
    (credit/debit, or brand - AMEX is higher than the others and Discover
    takes the cash-back from the total), security information provided,
    etc. A go-between like authorize.net will tack on a bit more. For a
    very small charge the abovementioned transaction fee might push the
    total to something on a par with 30%, but not for most purchases.

    [...]

    >> > Will teh average record shop allow me to play 10 seconds of anything I
    >> > want to hear in the shop .... NO

    >>
    >> Oh, good shops will allow you to listen to much more,

    >
    >There aren;t any good shops.


    Not since the day the music died.

    On the other hand, with today's tech it's not so difficult, and I
    wouldn't be surprised to find apps that let you scan a CD bar code and
    hear samples via your own phone. A smart feller could make such an app
    that could also suggest other similar disks that are available in the
    same store, if he were a mind to.

    >>and
    >> will give you personal attention and introduce you to music
    >> you didn't know you liked.  And will have rare stuff.  And
    >> never dabbled with DRM.

    >
    >Thos eplaces are very rare nowadays you must be going back to when my
    >mum brought rock 'n' roll
    >she and her friends spend hours in record stores in special boothes
    >with headsets it was quite common.
    >Maybe one or two still exist, but the last one(independant) on my
    >borough closed down 26 years ago.


    As mentioned above, perhaps what goes around may yet come around, if
    it hasn't already.

    Heck, now that I think of it I do recall seeing setups a decade or two
    ago where you could put on a set of headphones then wave a disk in
    front of a mounted bar code reader and hear samples.

    >> >  if you loose your record or Album or it gets destryoed  by fire or
    >> > theft ,
    >> > does Ploydor or EMI replace a lost or scrtached record for free ?

    >>
    >> And how often did that happen to you,

    >Not to me but as above a friend did get there's stolen.
    >
    >> and did you remember
    >> the mail access and password and all to your iTunes account
    >> and what will happen if someone finds out that password (and
    >> opens up everything under that password)?

    >
    >Not really sure, but it does't; stop me getting everything back that
    >I've purchsed from
    >either iTunes or the app store.
    >
    >I wonder if those that vsuffter hurrican katrina or teh tsunamis last
    >their music collect ?
    >Did those that sold them their music give it back to them ?


    No, but their insurance might buy it back for them, if they had it and
    the company didn't try too hard to squirm out of it.
    John A., Aug 17, 2011
    #19
  20. RichA

    Whisky-dave Guest

    On Aug 17, 3:11 pm, John A. <> wrote:
    > On Wed, 17 Aug 2011 04:30:47 -0700 (PDT), Whisky-dave
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > <> wrote:
    > >On Aug 16, 4:53 pm, Wolfgang Weisselberg <>
    > >wrote:
    > >> Whisky-dave <> wrote:
    > >> > On Aug 14, 4:28 pm, Wolfgang Weisselberg <>
    > >> > wrote:
    > >> >> tony cooper <> wrote:
    > >> >> [Apple taking 30%]
    > >> >> > Right.  The delivery system probably adds *more* than 30% of the value
    > >> >> > to the product.
    > >> >> > Without the delivery system, the product has no value.  
    > >> >> > If you invent and make a product of any kind, and attempt to sellit
    > >> >> > through distributors, the price you sell it to them for (your value)
    > >> >> > will be doubled or tripled or more in the marketplace.  A song is just
    > >> >> > another product.
    > >> >> If you say so.  Of course you have no numbers.
    > >> >> I haven't seen Apple do anything for the average song, the average
    > >> >> app or the average content that would create much of value.
    > >> > Well for me I trust that any download from the app store will not give
    > >> > me some virus or
    > >> > do anything it shouldn;t as the apps submitted do go through checks.

    >
    > >> OK, that's one point.  After all, some (music!) CDs install root kits.

    >
    > >I've yet to come accross that but what is a root kit ?

    >
    > If you don't know what they are, how do you know you haven't come
    > across one?


    Same way as I'd know I came across an alien.
    I ahven;t brought any music CDs for a number of years, I've probbaly
    burnt more than I've bnrought.
    I've seen those that have hidden tracks and other thatv have videos.
    As yet I've had no problemsm from such thiungs and I've been listen to
    various Mac podcast for the past 4 years
    and I've not heard of any problems.



    >
    > [...]
    >
    > >> > A friend that sets up comerial websites charges about £200 for a very
    > >> > basic design

    >
    > >> I think he's overcharging.  There are many 'click your own website'
    > >> tools that can do that for a lot less.

    >
    > >Yes but you have to know what you are doing.
    > >If someone came to you and said, I've got a couple of hundred books on
    > >homopathic remedies and
    > >I'd like to sell them from my own website where people can click to
    > >buy
    > >and I want to expand in a few months to include the remidies too.
    > >What site would you suggest she goes to to set this sort of thing up ?

    >
    > I'd suggest that they'd probably sell more if they spelled
    > 'homeopathic' correctly, but then again to people who believe in
    > homeopathic remedies that might not matter. ;)


    I feel the same, bloody tree huggers expect everyone to work for
    free ;-)

    >
    > [...]
    >
    > >> > Another friend set up a CC charging system for book buying but that
    > >> > cost over £1,500 in fees
    > >> > to the CC company/checker.... .

    >
    > >> And I have a decade experience with working with 'CC charging
    > >> systems' (and lots of other payment options as well), and they
    > >> don't charge 30%.  Not by an order of magnitude.  And they do
    > >> fraud checking.  And offering the stuff for download.  And giving
    > >> support to buyers and sellers.

    >
    > >So what credit card broker is that then ?
    > >How does the system work, if it is really that easy why do so many use
    > >paypal ?

    >
    > With a merchant account you're typically charged about $0.25-0.50 per
    > transaction plus about 1.5%-4% of the total, depending on things like
    > the nature of the business (online vs b&m), type of card
    > (credit/debit, or brand - AMEX is higher than the others and Discover
    > takes the cash-back from the total), security information provided,
    > etc. A go-between like authorize.net will tack on a bit more. For a
    > very small charge the abovementioned transaction fee might push the
    > total to something on a par with 30%, but not for most purchases.


    It's not the individual purchases but setting up the account and
    verification.


    >
    > [...]
    >
    > >> > Will teh average record shop allow me to play 10 seconds of anythingI
    > >> > want to hear in the shop .... NO

    >
    > >> Oh, good shops will allow you to listen to much more,

    >
    > >There aren;t any good shops.

    >
    > Not since the day the music died.


    I don;t think it's died just moved on, it was on myspace for a while.
    There's some good stuff on youtube and obviousvly a lot of bad stuff
    or should I say stuff
    I don;t like.

    >
    > On the other hand, with today's tech it's not so difficult, and I
    > wouldn't be surprised to find apps that let you scan a CD bar code and
    > hear samples via your own phone.


    I'm guess you'd need permission from the 'owners' of the music.
    It'#s easiey enough scanning barcodes I've done that with music magpie
    but I'm not sure yuo can just play a track for any amount of time
    without permission.
    Any DJS about they'll know the rules for playing.


    > A smart feller could make such an app
    > that could also suggest other similar disks that are available in the
    > same store, if he were a mind to.


    If he were allowed to too.
    Of course this thing could very easily be done by Anyone.
    So if I did it, could I sell teh app as being able to download any
    music
    that has a barcode and what I wonder will be the resrtricions the RIAA
    or whoever
    the authoraties are on music distribution.
    I can;t even play my own music to others outside my propery without
    consent to you really think
    they'll allow such a program to be use anywhere in the world.

    >
    > >>and
    > >> will give you personal attention and introduce you to music
    > >> you didn't know you liked.  And will have rare stuff.  And
    > >> never dabbled with DRM.

    >
    > >Thos eplaces are very rare nowadays you must be going back to when my
    > >mum brought rock 'n' roll
    > >she and her friends spend hours in record stores in special boothes
    > >with headsets it was quite common.
    > >Maybe one or two still exist, but the last one(independant)  on my
    > >borough closed down 26 years ago.

    >
    > As mentioned above, perhaps what goes around may yet come around, if
    > it hasn't already.


    I don't see shops having booths so music lovers can listen to musci
    for free all day long without
    paying, even Aple don;t do that.

    >
    > Heck, now that I think of it I do recall seeing setups a decade or two
    > ago where you could put on a set of headphones then wave a disk in
    > front of a mounted bar code reader and hear samples.


    Well that would be a good idea but I think it's a bit outdated when
    you can take your iPhone
    or simialr device and watch a movie clip from a stationary poster.


    >
    > >> >  if you loose your record or Album or it gets destryoed  by fireor
    > >> > theft ,
    > >> > does Ploydor or EMI replace a lost or scrtached record for free ?

    >
    > >> And how often did that happen to you,

    > >Not to me but as above a friend did get there's stolen.

    >
    > >> and did you remember
    > >> the mail access and password and all to your iTunes account
    > >> and what will happen if someone finds out that password (and
    > >> opens up everything under that password)?

    >
    > >Not really sure, but it does't; stop me getting everything back that
    > >I've purchsed from
    > >either iTunes or the app store.

    >
    > >I wonder if those that vsuffter hurrican katrina or teh tsunamis last
    > >their music collect ?
    > >Did those that sold them their music give it back to them ?

    >
    > No, but their insurance might buy it back for them, if they had it and
    > the company didn't try too hard to squirm out of it.


    :-0 insurance companies, here in the UK they are squirming started
    about the riots,
    there's something differnt depending on whether a property or items
    are destroyed
    from riyting or protestors or acts of God.
    A few years ago I got a letter from my building insurance telling me
    theyt'll no longer cover anything related to terrorsim
    or the damage done because of it.
    A friend was told that he had to have seprate cover for his 5,000+ CD
    collection as it wasn;t part of his standard cover.
    Of course withy premuims so high some arent; insuring.
    Whisky-dave, Aug 17, 2011
    #20
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