Gradwell phones home from web page -- what's going on?

Discussion in 'UK VOIP' started by news, Dec 16, 2005.

  1. news

    news Guest

    Elsewhere in this group someone posted this link:

    >http://esupport.gradwell.

    net/?_a=knowledgebase&_j=questiondetails&_i=208

    A useful page.

    But what on earth is Gradwell doing? When I displayed the page I noticed
    there was some traffic outgoing from here, repeated every 20 seconds or
    so:

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Source Destination Protocol Info

    192.168.xxx.xxx yellow.gradwell.net TCP 1216 > https [SYN]
    Seq=0 Ack=0 Win=65535 Len=0 MSS=1460

    yellow.gradwell.net 192.168.xxx.xxx TCP https > 1216 [SYN,
    ACK] Seq=0 Ack=1 Win=5840 Len=0 MSS=1460

    192.168.xxx.xxx yellow.gradwell.net TCP 1216 > https [ACK]
    Seq=1 Ack=1 Win=65535 Len=0

    192.168.xxx.xxx yellow.gradwell.net TLS Client Hello

    yellow.gradwell.net 192.168.xxx.xxx TCP https > 1216 [ACK]
    Seq=1 Ack=99 Win=5840 Len=0

    yellow.gradwell.net 192.168.xxx.xxx TLS Server Hello,
    Change Cipher Spec, Encrypted Handshake Message

    192.168.xxx.xxx yellow.gradwell.net TLS Change Cipher Spec

    yellow.gradwell.net 192.168.xxx.xxx TCP https > 1216 [ACK]
    Seq=127 Ack=105 Win=5840 Len=0

    192.168.xxx.xxx yellow.gradwell.net TLS Encrypted Handshake
    Message, Application Data

    yellow.gradwell.net 192.168.xxx.xxx TCP https > 1216 [ACK]
    Seq=127 Ack=1270 Win=8155 Len=0

    yellow.gradwell.net 192.168.xxx.xxx TLS Application Data

    yellow.gradwell.net 192.168.xxx.xxx TCP https > 1216 [FIN,
    ACK] Seq=479 Ack=1270 Win=8155 Len=0

    192.168.xxx.xxx yellow.gradwell.net TCP 1216 > https [ACK]
    Seq=1270 Ack=480 Win=65057 Len=0

    192.168.xxx.xxx yellow.gradwell.net TLS Encrypted Alert

    192.168.xxx.xxx yellow.gradwell.net TCP 1216 > https [FIN,
    ACK] Seq=1297 Ack=480 Win=65057 Len=0

    yellow.gradwell.net 192.168.xxx.xxx TCP https > 1216 [ACK]
    Seq=480 Ack=1298 Win=8155 Len=0

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



    SSL? Encryption? What was Gradwell phoning home about?

    I didn't click on anything on the page, just displayed it. As soon as I
    closed the page, the traffic stopped.

    Gradwell?

    --
    Ian


    --
    Ian
     
    news, Dec 16, 2005
    #1
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  2. news

    news Guest

    In message <>, news <>
    writes
    >Elsewhere in this group someone posted this link:
    >
    >>http://esupport.gradwell.

    >net/?_a=knowledgebase&_j=questiondetails&_i=208
    >
    >A useful page.
    >
    >But what on earth is Gradwell doing? When I displayed the page I

    noticed there was some traffic >outgoing from here, repeated every 20
    seconds or so:
    >

    [Snip]


    I emailed Peter Gradwell direct, asking him what was going on. He
    explained that the phone-home traffic was to do with the Chat Now button
    on the page. So I then asked him for more details:

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Ian Wade wrote:
    > Hello Peter.
    > If the traffic is to do with the Chat Now button, why is it running

    all by itself every 20 seconds
    >and sending information back to you?


    - because it monitors whether we are online or not.

    > At no time did I click on any button when I displayed the page.
    > What information is it sending from my system to Gradwell?


    Just usual cgi stuff, like refer values, browser type, length of time on
    page etc.

    cheers
    peter

    --
    peter gradwell. gradwell dot com Ltd. http://www.gradwell.com/
    -- engineering & hosting services for email, web and voip --
    -- http://www.peter.me.uk/ -- http://www.voip.org.uk/ --
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


    So now we know. "Just the usual cgi stuff." Yeah, right!

    I also know that I have no time for vendors who play sneaky underhand
    tricks like that. Gradwell is definitely off my list of potential
    candidates for VoIP service provider.

    --
    Ian
     
    news, Dec 16, 2005
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. news

    Sparks Guest

    "news" <> wrote in message
    news:D...
    > In message <>, news <>
    > writes
    > >Elsewhere in this group someone posted this link:
    > >
    > >>http://esupport.gradwell.

    > >net/?_a=knowledgebase&_j=questiondetails&_i=208
    > >
    > >A useful page.
    > >
    > >But what on earth is Gradwell doing? When I displayed the page I

    > noticed there was some traffic >outgoing from here, repeated every 20
    > seconds or so:
    > >

    > [Snip]
    >
    >
    > I emailed Peter Gradwell direct, asking him what was going on. He
    > explained that the phone-home traffic was to do with the Chat Now button
    > on the page. So I then asked him for more details:
    >
    > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    > Ian Wade wrote:
    > > Hello Peter.
    > > If the traffic is to do with the Chat Now button, why is it running

    > all by itself every 20 seconds
    > >and sending information back to you?

    >
    > - because it monitors whether we are online or not.
    >
    > > At no time did I click on any button when I displayed the page.
    > > What information is it sending from my system to Gradwell?

    >
    > Just usual cgi stuff, like refer values, browser type, length of time on
    > page etc.
    >
    > cheers
    > peter
    >
    > --
    > peter gradwell. gradwell dot com Ltd. http://www.gradwell.com/
    > -- engineering & hosting services for email, web and voip --
    > -- http://www.peter.me.uk/ -- http://www.voip.org.uk/ --
    > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    >
    >
    > So now we know. "Just the usual cgi stuff." Yeah, right!
    >
    > I also know that I have no time for vendors who play sneaky underhand
    > tricks like that. Gradwell is definitely off my list of potential
    > candidates for VoIP service provider.
    >
    > --
    > Ian


    Doesn't look underhand to me, just making sure the button on the page, that
    presumabaly shows if live support is avalable is avalable is showing the
    correct status!

    Sparks... (A [happy] gradwell customer (no more than that), as you can
    probably see)
     
    Sparks, Dec 16, 2005
    #3
  4. news

    news Guest

    In message <43a29833$0$261$>, Sparks
    <this.is@invalid.?.invalid> writes
    >
    >
    >Doesn't look underhand to me, just making sure the button on the page, that
    >presumabaly shows if live support is avalable is avalable is showing the
    >correct status!
    >


    There's nothing wrong with the basic idea. But why use SSL? Despite
    Gradwell's "explanation", I have absolutely no idea what information
    they are phoning home.

    (A little while ago I was using another VoIP package -- Echolink -- and
    discovered that it too was phoning home -- in that case, the serial
    number of my hard disk. That was in clear, however, so easier to spot. I
    don't use that package any more).

    --
    Ian
     
    news, Dec 16, 2005
    #4
  5. news wrote:

    > There's nothing wrong with the basic idea. But why use SSL? Despite
    > Gradwell's "explanation", I have absolutely no idea what information
    > they are phoning home.


    - we use SSL because our whole site uses SSL, and if we invoke non SSL
    requests on an SSL page, then the browser will complain - which confuses
    people.

    cheers
    peter

    --
    peter gradwell. gradwell dot com Ltd. http://www.gradwell.com/
    -- engineering & hosting services for email, web and voip --
    -- http://www.peter.me.uk/ -- http://www.voip.org.uk/ --
     
    Peter Gradwell, Dec 16, 2005
    #5
  6. news

    news Guest

    In message <43a2c6b3$0$259$>, Peter Gradwell
    <> writes
    >news wrote:
    >
    >> There's nothing wrong with the basic idea. But why use SSL? Despite
    >>Gradwell's "explanation", I have absolutely no idea what information
    >>they are phoning home.

    >
    >- we use SSL because our whole site uses SSL


    No it doesn't. I've just clicked on your home page (http://...) for
    example, and there's no SSL or phoning home there. Also, the original
    link that started this topic was http, not https.

    >, and if we invoke non SSL requests on an SSL page, then the browser
    >will complain - which confuses people.


    I think your web designer is confused. You need to think a little more
    about page design.

    --
    Ian
     
    news, Dec 16, 2005
    #6
  7. news wrote:
    >
    > No it doesn't. I've just clicked on your home page (http://...) for
    > example, and there's no SSL or phoning home there. Also, the original
    > link that started this topic was http, not https.
    >
    >> , and if we invoke non SSL requests on an SSL page, then the browser
    >> will complain - which confuses people.

    >
    > I think your web designer is confused. You need to think a little more
    > about page design.


    This seems to be a lot of fuss about nothing.

    I haven't used Gradwell before, but they seem like an honest enough
    company. How many others companies do you know where the founder reads
    Usenet and answers posts?

    If they wanted to do something iffy, they could do so when the page was
    first requested. Your browser can't send anything back on future
    reloads that it couldn't have sent back the first time.
     
    George Woodbine, Dec 16, 2005
    #7
  8. news

    Julius Guest

    Seems like too much information is overloading your brain
     
    Julius, Dec 17, 2005
    #8
  9. news

    alexd Guest

    news wrote:

    > In message <43a2c6b3$0$259$>, Peter Gradwell
    > <> writes


    >>, and if we invoke non SSL requests on an SSL page, then the browser
    >>will complain - which confuses people.


    god knows it doesn't take much...

    > I think your web designer is confused. You need to think a little more
    > about page design.


    I think you're the one who's confused. You need to think a little more about
    whether a succesful VoIP player, is going to take any notice of a
    foaming-mouthed conspiracy theorist on Usenet.

    --
    <http://ale.cx/> (AIM:troffasky) ()
    11:19:32 up 8 days, 21:54, 1 user, load average: 0.05, 0.05, 0.08
    This is my BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMSTICK
     
    alexd, Dec 17, 2005
    #9

  10. > I haven't used Gradwell before, but they seem like an honest enough
    > company. How many others companies do you know where the founder reads
    > Usenet and answers posts?
    >


    www.voipfone.co.uk their CEO posts quite regularly :)

    Mat
     
    Mathew Curtis, Dec 22, 2005
    #10
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