Google - My old posts still live!

Discussion in 'Computer Support' started by Joe, Apr 30, 2007.

  1. Joe

    Joe Guest

    What is it with Google? I just found some posts by myself from many years
    ago, but not only do they appear on the Google NGs pages, they are also on
    the pages of other websites, verbatim. What the hell gives Google the right
    to sell these posts to other companies and use them in this way? Is there
    anything we can do about this kind of behaviour?
    I think it's a disgrace that they can apparently get away with this kind of
    thing. Is it legal?

    Joe.
     
    Joe, Apr 30, 2007
    #1
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  2. Joe wrote:

    > What is it with Google? I just found some posts by myself from many years
    > ago, but not only do they appear on the Google NGs pages,


    Google has been archiving Usenet for many years. Prior to that it was
    Dejavu, a company that Google subsequently purchased, along with all the
    data.

    > they are also on the pages of other websites, verbatim. What the hell
    > gives Google the right to sell these posts to other companies and use
    > them in this way?


    There are many web sites that scrape Usenet and store it. They did not
    receive the data from Google, and Google is not selling it to them.

    > Is there anything we can do about this kind of behaviour?


    Write your congressperson.

    > I think it's a disgrace that they can apparently get away with this kind of
    > thing. Is it legal?


    Legal? Sure.

    --
    -bts
    -Motorcycles defy gravity; cars just suck
     
    Beauregard T. Shagnasty, Apr 30, 2007
    #2
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  3. "Beauregard T. Shagnasty" <> wrote in
    message news:04pZh.390541$
    > Joe wrote:
    >
    >> What is it with Google? I just found some posts by myself from many
    >> years ago, but not only do they appear on the Google NGs pages,

    >
    > Google has been archiving Usenet for many years. Prior to that it was
    > Dejavu, a company that Google subsequently purchased, along with all
    > the data.
    >
    >> they are also on the pages of other websites, verbatim. What the hell
    >> gives Google the right to sell these posts to other companies and use
    >> them in this way?

    >
    > There are many web sites that scrape Usenet and store it. They did not
    > receive the data from Google, and Google is not selling it to them.
    >
    >> Is there anything we can do about this kind of behaviour?

    >
    > Write your congressperson.
    >
    >> I think it's a disgrace that they can apparently get away with this
    >> kind of thing. Is it legal?

    >
    > Legal? Sure.


    The posts can be removed from Google Groups. You'll have a lot more
    trouble getting them removed from the other websites.

    http://groups.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=46493

    --
    Rhonda Lea Kirk

    Some are tempted to think of life in cyberspace as insignificant,
    as escape or meaningless diversion. It is not. Our experiences there
    are serious play. We belittle them at our risk. Sherry Turkle
     
    Rhonda Lea Kirk, Apr 30, 2007
    #3
  4. Joe

    Guest

    "Joe" <> wrote:

    >
    >What is it with Google? I just found some posts by myself from many years
    >ago, but not only do they appear on the Google NGs pages, they are also on
    >the pages of other websites, verbatim. What the hell gives Google the right
    >to sell these posts to other companies and use them in this way? Is there
    >anything we can do about this kind of behaviour?
    >I think it's a disgrace that they can apparently get away with this kind of
    >thing. Is it legal?


    Your post are public domain. Many years ago it was www.dejanews.com/
    that collected and stored your post, it's always been done.

    --
    Earth as seen from Saturn
    http://tinyurl.com/27q733
     
    , Apr 30, 2007
    #4
  5. Joe

    Mike Easter Guest

    Joe wrote:
    > What is it with Google?


    Googlegroups is a browser interface and long term archiver to usenet a
    googlespecific groups. Usenet posts to google propagate to the world's
    nntp newsservers.

    > I just found some posts by myself from many
    > years ago, but not only do they appear on the Google NGs pages, they
    > are also on the pages of other websites, verbatim.


    Many website forum pages access various usenet groups and archive them.
    They don't get the newsmessages from google, they get the messages from
    the newsservers.

    > What the hell
    > gives Google the right to sell these posts to other companies and use
    > them in this way?


    You are misunderstanding what is going on. The webforums are the ones
    'stealing' and 'selling' your words at their sites; google didn't sell
    them the words.

    > Is there anything we can do about this kind of
    > behaviour?


    Not anything useful. You might be able to remove your posts from google
    and you might be able to convince webforums individually to remove your
    posts, but it isn't likely that you would be very effective at that.

    > I think it's a disgrace that they can apparently get away with this
    > kind of thing. Is it legal?


    Yes it is legal and no it is not a disgrace. When you broadcast a
    message you can't unbroadcast it.

    You can stop posting broadcasted messages if you like.


    --
    Mike Easter
     
    Mike Easter, Apr 30, 2007
    #5
  6. Joe

    Joe Guest

    "Mike Easter" <> wrote in message
    news:4636266f$0$97267$...
    > Joe wrote:
    >> What is it with Google?

    >
    > Googlegroups is a browser interface and long term archiver to usenet a
    > googlespecific groups. Usenet posts to google propagate to the world's
    > nntp newsservers.
    >
    >> I just found some posts by myself from many
    >> years ago, but not only do they appear on the Google NGs pages, they
    >> are also on the pages of other websites, verbatim.

    >
    > Many website forum pages access various usenet groups and archive them.
    > They don't get the newsmessages from google, they get the messages from
    > the newsservers.
    >
    >> What the hell
    >> gives Google the right to sell these posts to other companies and use
    >> them in this way?

    >
    > You are misunderstanding what is going on. The webforums are the ones
    > 'stealing' and 'selling' your words at their sites; google didn't sell
    > them the words.
    >
    >> Is there anything we can do about this kind of
    >> behaviour?

    >
    > Not anything useful. You might be able to remove your posts from google
    > and you might be able to convince webforums individually to remove your
    > posts, but it isn't likely that you would be very effective at that.
    >
    >> I think it's a disgrace that they can apparently get away with this
    >> kind of thing. Is it legal?

    >
    > Yes it is legal and no it is not a disgrace. When you broadcast a
    > message you can't unbroadcast it.
    >
    > You can stop posting broadcasted messages if you like.
    >
    >
    > --
    > Mike Easter
    >


    The 'real' thing that bugs me about all this kind of activity is that many
    years ago when I posted things to NGs, I was much greener and didn't even
    think for a minute that my posts would be floating around on the internet
    for all to see. Nor did I see any warnings from the then NG or Google (who
    didn't even exist btw) advising me of the fact that my conversations where
    not limited to the NG, but would in fact later be used to gather revenue by
    some other companies in the future. There is something intrisically wrong
    here as it's a mis-use of information which was taken from it's original
    place and used for other reasons than it's original intention. It's all very
    well saying "public domain", but this information goes into the hands of big
    business, not really the public domain. Also, if it were a song or a poem,
    there'd be copyright laws to protect us, so why not the same laws for my
    posts which were posted personally by me to another NG user?
    Hmm.

    Cheers.
    Joe.
     
    Joe, Apr 30, 2007
    #6
  7. Joe

    Mike Easter Guest

    Joe wrote:
    > "Mike Easter"


    >> Many website forum pages access various usenet groups and archive
    >> them.


    >> The webforums are the
    >> ones 'stealing' and 'selling' your words at their sites; google
    >> didn't sell them the words.


    > later be used to gather revenue by some other companies in the
    > future. There is something intrisically wrong here as it's a mis-use
    > of information which was taken from it's original place and used for
    > other reasons than it's original intention.


    There are many of us who post to usenet newsgroups, not to webforums
    which regurgitate those posts, who have gripes about the combination of
    their archiving style as well as how the webforum feeds back to the
    newsgroups work.

    Googlegroups is one set of problems, other webforums are another. Both
    of them are somewhat useful for search results, google even more than
    the webforums.

    > so why not the same
    > laws for my posts which were posted personally by me to another NG
    > user?


    You do actually retain your copyright, which wasn't formally
    'copyrighted'.

    You just have to understand what are the limitations on your ability to
    enforce. You can request/demand that a website which is publishing your
    words remove them.

    --
    Mike Easter
     
    Mike Easter, Apr 30, 2007
    #7
  8. Joe

    Shel-hed Guest

    On Mon, 30 Apr 2007 18:16:03 GMT, "Joe" <> wrote:

    >There is something intrisically wrong
    >here as it's a mis-use of information which was taken from it's original
    >place and used for other reasons than it's original intention.


    How old are your oldest posts? Was Deja around then?


    >It's all very
    >well saying "public domain", but this information goes into the hands of big
    >business, not really the public domain. Also, if it were a song or a poem,
    >there'd be copyright laws to protect us, so why not the same laws for my
    >posts which were posted personally by me to another NG user?
    >Hmm.


    If you want your stuff copyrighted like the corporations, then you are just like
    the corporations.
    The flip side is, if you write a song or poem and post it on usenet, you have a
    pretty good record of it's ownership.
     
    Shel-hed, Apr 30, 2007
    #8
  9. Joe

    Aardvark Guest

    On Mon, 30 Apr 2007 18:16:03 +0000, Joe wrote:

    > there'd be copyright laws to protect us, so why not the same laws for my
    > posts which were posted personally by me to another NG user?


    I somehow doubt that they were posted to ONE newsgroup user.

    The other user(s) was/were posting in a PUBLIC newsgroup for all who were
    interested to read and you replied in that same PUBLIC newsgroup, again
    for all who were interested to read.

    You want private (or at least a semblance thereof) try email, and
    remember: never say anything over the phone that you wouldn't also be
    prepared to shout across a crowded room.

    --
    Registered Linux User 413057.
    Both Mandriva 2007 and Ubuntu 6.06
    You can have it all. My empire of hurt.
     
    Aardvark, Apr 30, 2007
    #9
  10. Joe

    Joe Guest

    "Mike Easter" <> wrote in message
    news:46363659$0$97269$...
    > Joe wrote:
    >> "Mike Easter"

    >
    >>> Many website forum pages access various usenet groups and archive
    >>> them.

    >
    >>> The webforums are the
    >>> ones 'stealing' and 'selling' your words at their sites; google
    >>> didn't sell them the words.

    >
    >> later be used to gather revenue by some other companies in the
    >> future. There is something intrisically wrong here as it's a mis-use
    >> of information which was taken from it's original place and used for
    >> other reasons than it's original intention.

    >
    > There are many of us who post to usenet newsgroups, not to webforums
    > which regurgitate those posts, who have gripes about the combination of
    > their archiving style as well as how the webforum feeds back to the
    > newsgroups work.
    >
    > Googlegroups is one set of problems, other webforums are another. Both
    > of them are somewhat useful for search results, google even more than
    > the webforums.
    >
    >> so why not the same
    >> laws for my posts which were posted personally by me to another NG
    >> user?

    >
    > You do actually retain your copyright, which wasn't formally
    > 'copyrighted'.
    >
    > You just have to understand what are the limitations on your ability to
    > enforce. You can request/demand that a website which is publishing your
    > words remove them.
    >
    > --
    > Mike Easter
    >


    What chance do you think I 'really' have of having them removed by request
    though?

    Joe.
     
    Joe, Apr 30, 2007
    #10
  11. Joe

    Guest

    Aardvark <> wrote:

    >You want private (or at least a semblance thereof) try email, and
    >remember: never say anything over the phone that you wouldn't also be
    >prepared to shout across a crowded room.


    You want private, you don't post, email or say over the phone -
    anything you wouldn't want the world to know.

    --
    -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
    http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
     
    , Apr 30, 2007
    #11
  12. Joe

    ThePsyko Guest

    On 30 Apr 2007 I stormed the castle called 24hoursupport.helpdesk and
    heard Joe cry out in
    news:GZsZh.99975$...

    >
    > "Mike Easter" <> wrote in message
    > news:46363659$0$97269$...
    >> Joe wrote:
    >>> "Mike Easter"

    >>
    >>>> Many website forum pages access various usenet groups and archive
    >>>> them.

    >>
    >>>> The webforums are the
    >>>> ones 'stealing' and 'selling' your words at their sites; google
    >>>> didn't sell them the words.

    >>
    >>> later be used to gather revenue by some other companies in the
    >>> future. There is something intrisically wrong here as it's a mis-use
    >>> of information which was taken from it's original place and used for
    >>> other reasons than it's original intention.

    >>
    >> There are many of us who post to usenet newsgroups, not to webforums
    >> which regurgitate those posts, who have gripes about the combination
    >> of their archiving style as well as how the webforum feeds back to
    >> the newsgroups work.
    >>
    >> Googlegroups is one set of problems, other webforums are another.
    >> Both of them are somewhat useful for search results, google even more
    >> than the webforums.
    >>
    >>> so why not the same
    >>> laws for my posts which were posted personally by me to another NG
    >>> user?

    >>
    >> You do actually retain your copyright, which wasn't formally
    >> 'copyrighted'.
    >>
    >> You just have to understand what are the limitations on your ability
    >> to enforce. You can request/demand that a website which is
    >> publishing your words remove them.
    >>
    >> --
    >> Mike Easter
    >>

    >
    > What chance do you think I 'really' have of having them removed by
    > request though?
    >
    > Joe.
    >
    >
    >
    >


    Depends on the content and the website in question

    --
    ThePsyko
    Public Enemy #7

    **Pissing off the planet, one person at a time**
     
    ThePsyko, Apr 30, 2007
    #12
  13. Joe

    Mike Easter Guest

    Joe wrote:
    > "Mike Easter"
    >> Joe wrote:
    >>> "Mike Easter"

    >>
    >>>> Many website forum pages access various usenet groups and archive
    >>>> them.


    > What chance do you think I 'really' have of having them removed by
    > request though?


    It depends on the site and whether there is liable to be any problem
    proving it is your post. Sometimes/often someone posts with an address
    which is either invalid or currently non-existent. Sometimes/often the
    website may just archive with the handle and nothing else.

    What site in particular are you talking about?


    --
    Mike Easter
     
    Mike Easter, Apr 30, 2007
    #13
  14. Joe

    Joe Guest

    "Mike Easter" <> wrote in message
    news:46366009$0$97253$...
    > Joe wrote:
    >> "Mike Easter"
    >>> Joe wrote:
    >>>> "Mike Easter"
    >>>
    >>>>> Many website forum pages access various usenet groups and archive
    >>>>> them.

    >
    >> What chance do you think I 'really' have of having them removed by
    >> request though?

    >
    > It depends on the site and whether there is liable to be any problem
    > proving it is your post. Sometimes/often someone posts with an address
    > which is either invalid or currently non-existent. Sometimes/often the
    > website may just archive with the handle and nothing else.
    >
    > What site in particular are you talking about?
    >
    >
    > --
    > Mike Easter
    >


    This one....

    http://www.derkeiler.com/

    Also, there seems to be no contact email address for them.

    Hmm.

    Joe.
     
    Joe, Apr 30, 2007
    #14
  15. Joe

    Bing Crosby Guest

    "Joe" <> wrote in message
    news:hKoZh.109259$...
    >
    > What is it with Google? I just found some posts by myself from many years
    > ago, but not only do they appear on the Google NGs pages, they are also on
    > the pages of other websites, verbatim. What the hell gives Google the
    > right to sell these posts to other companies and use them in this way? Is
    > there anything we can do about this kind of behaviour?
    > I think it's a disgrace that they can apparently get away with this kind
    > of thing. Is it legal?
    >
    > Joe.
    >
    >


    Well that made me curious, so I had a look, of course the only clue was
    your current ID, not what you were once posting as nor if the posts
    that have you worried were also with blueyonder?
    >

    You apparently are fond of binary downloads of shaggable TV babes!
    http://www.usenet-replayer.com/groups/alt.binaries.tv.shaggable.babes.html

    And you own a Dell, and you are interested in photography.
    Though a lack of red eye in self portraits had you worried.
    You believe in Reiki healing?
    And you were looking on YouTube for a clip of the BeeGees on the Eamon
    Andrews show
    <http://groups.google.co.uk/group/alt.music.bee-gees/browse_thread/thread/d85a8215b2426557/b50e5b9b3253783a?lnk=st&q=NoMail%40qpwoeiruty.com&rnum=40&hl=en#b50e5b9b3253783a>
     
    Bing Crosby, Apr 30, 2007
    #15
  16. Joe

    Aardvark Guest

    On Mon, 30 Apr 2007 14:14:22 -0700, Pennywise wrote:

    > Aardvark <> wrote:
    >
    >>You want private (or at least a semblance thereof) try email, and
    >>remember: never say anything over the phone that you wouldn't also be
    >>prepared to shout across a crowded room.

    >
    > You want private, you don't post, email or say over the phone -
    > anything you wouldn't want the world to know.
    >


    Yup! Just Google 'Menwith Hill' and/or 'Echelon'.

    --
    Registered Linux User 413057.
    Both Mandriva 2007 and Ubuntu 6.06
    You can have it all. My empire of hurt.
     
    Aardvark, Apr 30, 2007
    #16
  17. \Fat Tony\ D'Amico, Apr 30, 2007
    #17
  18. Joe

    DemoDisk Guest

    "Joe" <> wrote in message
    news:hKoZh.109259$...
    >
    > What is it with Google? I just found some posts by myself from many

    years
    > ago, but not only do they appear on the Google NGs pages, they are

    also on
    > the pages of other websites, verbatim. What the hell gives Google the

    right
    > to sell these posts to other companies and use them in this way? Is

    there
    > anything we can do about this kind of behaviour?
    > I think it's a disgrace that they can apparently get away with this

    kind of
    > thing. Is it legal?


    What's the problem? One wd think you'd be glad your old posts existed
    somewhere. I've googled mine and, frankly, it's amazing how clever and
    insightful I used to be. Still can't fix my computer, tho.

    1. "What the hell gives Google the right to sell these posts to other
    companies and use them in this way?"

    They're posted to public NGs. There's no ownership, AFAIAA.

    2. "Is there anything we can do about this kind of behaviour?"

    Other than posting to yet another public NG, no.

    3. "Is it legal?"

    Damfino. Probably as legal as it is to collect aluminium cans from the
    trash and sell them.

    JPM
     
    DemoDisk, Apr 30, 2007
    #18
  19. Joe

    Joe Guest

    "Bing Crosby" <> wrote in message
    news:D...
    >
    > "Joe" <> wrote in message
    > news:hKoZh.109259$...
    >>
    >> What is it with Google? I just found some posts by myself from many years
    >> ago, but not only do they appear on the Google NGs pages, they are also
    >> on the pages of other websites, verbatim. What the hell gives Google the
    >> right to sell these posts to other companies and use them in this way? Is
    >> there anything we can do about this kind of behaviour?
    >> I think it's a disgrace that they can apparently get away with this kind
    >> of thing. Is it legal?
    >>
    >> Joe.
    >>
    >>

    >
    > Well that made me curious, so I had a look, of course the only clue was
    > your current ID, not what you were once posting as nor if the posts
    > that have you worried were also with blueyonder?
    >>

    > You apparently are fond of binary downloads of shaggable TV babes!
    > http://www.usenet-replayer.com/groups/alt.binaries.tv.shaggable.babes.html
    >
    > And you own a Dell, and you are interested in photography.
    > Though a lack of red eye in self portraits had you worried.
    > You believe in Reiki healing?
    > And you were looking on YouTube for a clip of the BeeGees on the Eamon
    > Andrews show
    > <http://groups.google.co.uk/group/alt.music.bee-gees/browse_thread/thread/d85a8215b2426557/b50e5b9b3253783a?lnk=st&q=NoMail%40qpwoeiruty.com&rnum=40&hl=en#b50e5b9b3253783a>
    >


    LOL! Well, doh....'even a 'green' like myself can do that stuff. Basic
    data-mining really. The thing is, I should be able to poke around anywhere I
    want without being tracked by everyone. I ain't done anything illegal or
    broken any laws, I'm just doing what most folk do...'nose around here and
    there...'like yourself most likely. The internet is a strange place though
    as it seems to be a hostile environment, but it shouldn't be. There just
    aren't enough laws to protect our ID and I doubt there ever will be. BTW,
    any prick can google a username, so don't feel to clever about it.

    Joe.
     
    Joe, Apr 30, 2007
    #19
  20. Joe

    Joe Guest

    "Frosty" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Mon, 30 Apr 2007 18:16:03 GMT in 24hoursupport.helpdesk "Joe"
    > <>, intended to write something intelligible, but
    > instead wrote :
    >
    >>The 'real' thing that bugs me about all this kind of activity is that many
    >>years ago when I posted things to NGs, I was much greener and didn't even
    >>think for a minute that my posts would be floating around on the internet
    >>for all to see. Nor did I see any warnings from the then NG or Google (who
    >>didn't even exist btw) advising me of the fact that my conversations where
    >>not limited to the NG, but would in fact later be used to gather revenue
    >>by
    >>some other companies in the future. There is something intrisically wrong
    >>here as it's a mis-use of information which was taken from it's original
    >>place and used for other reasons than it's original intention. It's all
    >>very
    >>well saying "public domain", but this information goes into the hands of
    >>big
    >>business, not really the public domain. Also, if it were a song or a poem,
    >>there'd be copyright laws to protect us, so why not the same laws for my
    >>posts which were posted personally by me to another NG user?
    >>Hmm.
    >>
    >>Cheers.
    >>Joe.
    >>
    >>

    > Earth to Joe: nobody cares what you said then or now.
    > Go back to sleep.
    >


    What I said is not the issue. The issue is that the messages are stored and
    nobody warned of that.

    Joe.

    ZZZzzz.

    ;-)
     
    Joe, Apr 30, 2007
    #20
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