Google mash-up I'd like to see

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Don Wiss, Dec 15, 2007.

  1. Don Wiss

    Don Wiss Guest

    I'd like to see someone create a Google mash-up that tells me when the sun
    is in the direction I want. On the map you would put two points. One for
    where you would be standing. The second would be off in the direction you
    want to be looking. Then you would input a date. The program would return
    the time on that date that the sun would be directly behind you.

    Don <www.donwiss.com/pictures/> (e-mail link at page bottoms).
    Don Wiss, Dec 15, 2007
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Don Wiss

    RichA Guest

    On Dec 14, 7:06 pm, Don Wiss <donwiss@no_spam.com> wrote:
    > I'd like to see someone create a Google mash-up that tells me when the sun
    > is in the direction I want. On the map you would put two points. One for
    > where you would be standing. The second would be off in the direction you
    > want to be looking. Then you would input a date. The program would return
    > the time on that date that the sun would be directly behind you.
    >
    > Don <www.donwiss.com/pictures/> (e-mail link at page bottoms).


    I'd like to see the stop the Chinese Nike hawkers from flooding usenet
    using their email service.
    RichA, Dec 15, 2007
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Don Wiss

    Charles Guest

    On Fri, 14 Dec 2007 19:06:49 -0500, Don Wiss <donwiss@no_spam.com>
    wrote:

    >I'd like to see someone create a Google mash-up that tells me when the sun
    >is in the direction I want. On the map you would put two points. One for
    >where you would be standing. The second would be off in the direction you
    >want to be looking. Then you would input a date. The program would return
    >the time on that date that the sun would be directly behind you.
    >
    >Don <www.donwiss.com/pictures/> (e-mail link at page bottoms).


    Not quite what you are asking for, but you may get some use from this
    page.

    http://aa.usno.navy.mil/data/docs/AltAz.php
    Charles, Dec 15, 2007
    #3
  4. OT: Google mash-up I'd like to see

    [A complimentary Cc of this posting was sent to
    Charles
    <>], who wrote in article <>:
    > Not quite what you are asking for, but you may get some use from this
    > page.
    >
    > http://aa.usno.navy.mil/data/docs/AltAz.php


    All I get is

    Invalid year. Please enter a value from 1700 to 2100

    (I was trying 3007). Anybody hear knowing: with the current precision
    of data about sun/earth/moon system, for how long one can do reliable
    prediction (say, with 15' error)?

    [I know that for Solar system as a whole, chaos appears in about 1e9
    years increments (at least, this was state-of-art of 1990); but
    even without chaos, errors in measurements would matter at some
    moment...]

    Thanks,
    Ilya
    Ilya Zakharevich, Dec 15, 2007
    #4
  5. Don Wiss

    acl Guest

    Re: OT: Google mash-up I'd like to see

    On Dec 15, 6:19 am, Ilya Zakharevich <> wrote:
    > [A complimentary Cc of this posting was sent to
    > Charles
    > <>], who wrote in article <>:
    >
    > > Not quite what you are asking for, but you may get some use from this
    > > page.

    >
    > >http://aa.usno.navy.mil/data/docs/AltAz.php

    >
    > All I get is
    >
    > Invalid year. Please enter a value from 1700 to 2100
    >
    > (I was trying 3007). Anybody hear knowing: with the current precision
    > of data about sun/earth/moon system, for how long one can do reliable
    > prediction (say, with 15' error)?
    >
    > [I know that for Solar system as a whole, chaos appears in about 1e9
    > years increments (at least, this was state-of-art of 1990); but
    > even without chaos, errors in measurements would matter at some
    > moment...]


    Yes, that's funny isn't it, I know about Sussman and Wisdom's work,
    but have no clue about the accuracy to which this stuff is known in
    100 years or so. Strange world.
    acl, Dec 15, 2007
    #5
  6. Don Wiss

    Guest

    On Dec 15, 10:06 am, Don Wiss <donwiss@no_spam.com> wrote:
    > I'd like to see someone create a Google mash-up that tells me when the sun
    > is in the direction I want. On the map you would put two points. One for
    > where you would be standing. The second would be off in the direction you
    > want to be looking. Then you would input a date. The program would return
    > the time on that date that the sun would be directly behind you.
    >
    > Don <www.donwiss.com/pictures/> (e-mail link at page bottoms).


    As Charles indirectly pointed out, standard Alt/Az (Altitude/Azimuth)
    figures would give you this information, with very little effort.
    Most astronomy programs do this very easily/quickly, and allow you to
    go way back/ way forward. Try Winstars for a good freebie (actually
    it's shareware nowadays, but I don't think it is crippled or time
    limited) - there are many others.
    , Dec 15, 2007
    #6
  7. Don Wiss

    Neil Ellwood Guest

    Don Wiss wrote:

    > I'd like to see someone create a Google mash-up that tells me when
    > the sun is in the direction I want. On the map you would put two
    > points. One for where you would be standing. The second would be off
    > in the direction you want to be looking. Then you would input a
    > date. The program would return the time on that date that the sun
    > would be directly behind you.
    >
    > Don <www.donwiss.com/pictures/> (e-mail link at page bottoms).

    Use a compass and a watch.


    --
    Neil
    reverse ra and delete l
    Linux user 335851
    Neil Ellwood, Dec 15, 2007
    #7
  8. Neil Ellwood <> wrote:

    >Don Wiss wrote:
    >
    >> I'd like to see someone create a Google mash-up that tells me when
    >> the sun is in the direction I want. On the map you would put two
    >> points. One for where you would be standing. The second would be off
    >> in the direction you want to be looking. Then you would input a
    >> date. The program would return the time on that date that the sun
    >> would be directly behind you.
    >>
    >> Don <www.donwiss.com/pictures/> (e-mail link at page bottoms).

    >Use a compass and a watch.



    Learn to use your watch as a compass, and a watch is all you need.

    It is all I need, and it gets plenty of use.

    Recommendation - avoid digital watches for this application. ;-)
    The Good Doctor, Dec 15, 2007
    #8
  9. Don Wiss

    Don Wiss Guest

    On Sat, 15 Dec 2007, The Good Doctor <> wrote:

    >Neil Ellwood <> wrote:
    >
    >>Don Wiss wrote:
    >>
    >>> I'd like to see someone create a Google mash-up that tells me when
    >>> the sun is in the direction I want. On the map you would put two
    >>> points. One for where you would be standing. The second would be off
    >>> in the direction you want to be looking. Then you would input a
    >>> date. The program would return the time on that date that the sun
    >>> would be directly behind you.
    >>>

    >>Use a compass and a watch.

    >
    >Learn to use your watch as a compass, and a watch is all you need.
    >It is all I need, and it gets plenty of use.


    I'm sorry but I don't follow. How can that tell me at what time I should go
    visit a site to take a picture with the sun exactly in the direction I want
    it to be?

    Don <www.donwiss.com> (e-mail link at home page bottom).
    Don Wiss, Dec 15, 2007
    #9
  10. "Don Wiss" <donwiss@no_spam.com> wrote in message
    news:...
    > I'd like to see someone create a Google mash-up that tells me when the sun
    > is in the direction I want. On the map you would put two points. One for
    > where you would be standing. The second would be off in the direction you
    > want to be looking. Then you would input a date. The program would return
    > the time on that date that the sun would be directly behind you.


    In order to do this accurately you'd also have to consider longitude. For
    example, if you were near the eastern edge of your time zone the correct
    answer would be almost an hour different from what it would be near the
    western edge.

    Neil
    Neil Harrington, Dec 15, 2007
    #10
  11. Don Wiss

    Ali Guest

    I was thinking this too, but with all the talk about astronomy, etc. I was
    put off from posting something so simplistic.



    "Neil Ellwood" <> wrote in message
    news:...

    > Use a compass and a watch.
    Ali, Dec 15, 2007
    #11
  12. On Fri, 14 Dec 2007 19:06:49 -0500, Don Wiss <donwiss@no_spam.com>
    wrote:

    >I'd like to see someone create a Google mash-up that tells me when the sun
    >is in the direction I want. On the map you would put two points. One for
    >where you would be standing. The second would be off in the direction you
    >want to be looking. Then you would input a date. The program would return
    >the time on that date that the sun would be directly behind you.


    Hi,

    As well as desktop/online apps, another great app is something called
    "Ephemeris" that runs on PocketPC machines. It provides Sun and moon
    directions, etc. You will need to enter your town/city so it can work
    things out for your location:

    http://home.comcast.net/~jonsachs/#Ephemeris 1.0

    In addition, the software author has another piece of PocketPC
    software called DOF that can calculate Depth Of Field:

    http://home.comcast.net/~jonsachs/#DOF 1.0

    And another for exposure calculations (most useful for film I
    assume):

    http://home.comcast.net/~jonsachs/#Expose 1.0

    I use Ephemeris quite a bit on my Windows Mobile 6 device which has
    GPS and maps for orientation, etc.

    --
    Kulvinder Singh Matharu

    Website : www.metalvortex.com
    Contact : www.metalvortex.com/contact/

    Brain! Brain! What is brain?!
    Kulvinder Singh Matharu, Dec 15, 2007
    #12
  13. Re: OT: Google mash-up I'd like to see

    [A complimentary Cc of this posting was NOT [per weedlist] sent to
    acl
    <>], who wrote in article <>:
    > > (I was trying 3007). Anybody hear knowing: with the current precision
    > > of data about sun/earth/moon system, for how long one can do reliable
    > > prediction (say, with 15' error)?
    > >
    > > [I know that for Solar system as a whole, chaos appears in about 1e9
    > > years increments (at least, this was state-of-art of 1990); but
    > > even without chaos, errors in measurements would matter at some
    > > moment...]


    > Yes, that's funny isn't it, I know about Sussman and Wisdom's work,
    > but have no clue about the accuracy to which this stuff is known in
    > 100 years or so. Strange world.


    Aha, thanks for the reference (I presume you mean "Chaotic Evolution
    of the Solar System" of 1992). What I remembered was slightly earlier
    numerical experiments; they claimed that all the planets except Pluto
    were not showing chaotic behaviour for 1e9 scale, and only the
    trajectory of Pluto was chaotic; this was about '89 [I looked it up,
    and I suspect it was from "Numerical evidence that the motion of Pluto
    is chaotic" of '88; they say 2e7 years, not 1e9 I remembered]. I
    forgot about the newer result; they get much higher dynamic entropy,
    1/(4e6 years)...

    Now to read the whole article [hmm, Science copy not accessible
    through my usual channels...]. Fortunately, we have not only
    academia, but also the armed forces:
    http://handle.dtic.mil/100.2/ADA260055

    Ilya
    Ilya Zakharevich, Dec 15, 2007
    #13
  14. Don Wiss

    ASAAR Guest

    On Fri, 14 Dec 2007 19:06:49 -0500, Don Wiss wrote:

    > I'd like to see someone create a Google mash-up that tells me when the sun
    > is in the direction I want. On the map you would put two points. One for
    > where you would be standing. The second would be off in the direction you
    > want to be looking. Then you would input a date. The program would return
    > the time on that date that the sun would be directly behind you.


    I don't think so. Pick a spot to stand. Any location. Have two
    directions that you want to look at, 180 degrees apart. At some
    fleeting instant during the day the sun will be aligned properly for
    one of those two directions. It won't be for the other direction,
    which for you may be more southerly. Taking that constraint into
    consideration though, I guess that some math whiz of an astronomer
    could probably work out a formula for you. How accurate does this
    need to be, though? With the two known points you could determine
    the direction, and it probably wouldn't be too difficult to make a
    very rough mental estimate (no math required if you can visualize it
    based on where in the sky the sun would need to be) of what the time
    should be, within a couple of hours or so.

    Or you could cheat a bit by packing your bags, taking your camera,
    and flying down to some location near the equator. You'd pretty
    much know the two directions that you could look towards, and the
    moments of alignment wouldn't be very fleeting at all. :)
    ASAAR, Dec 15, 2007
    #14
  15. Don Wiss

    ASAAR Guest

    On Sat, 15 Dec 2007 00:52:03 GMT, Craig wrote:

    > There is a program that will let you do something like this. It is
    > called Stellarium. It is a planetarium program that shows a
    > photorealistic view of the sky from teh ground. You choose your
    > location from a map,or by putting in latitude and longitude, then
    > select the time and date.
    >
    > Then you see where the sun is. You can look in any direction even up
    > and see where teh sun is.
    >
    > Stellarium.org to download it. It's free.


    Thanks. I found it at http://www.stellarium.org/ and then
    discovered and older version on the computer that I'd forgotten
    about.
    ASAAR, Dec 15, 2007
    #15
  16. Don Wiss

    Ali Guest

    Maybe I am being a bit to simplistic, but I would look where the Sun comes
    up and where it sets. If I am wrong, please feel free to shed some light
    (no pun intended). ;-)


    "Don Wiss" <donwiss@no_spam.com> wrote in message
    news:...

    >>Learn to use your watch as a compass, and a watch is all you need.
    >>It is all I need, and it gets plenty of use.



    > I'm sorry but I don't follow. How can that tell me at what time I should
    > go
    > visit a site to take a picture with the sun exactly in the direction I
    > want
    > it to be?
    Ali, Dec 15, 2007
    #16
  17. Don Wiss

    Ali Guest

    I also found this:
    http://www.warehouseexpress.com/?/photo/depssi/depssi.html



    "Ali" <> wrote in message
    news:...

    >I was thinking this too, but with all the talk about astronomy, etc. I was
    >put off from posting something so simplistic.



    > "Neil Ellwood" <> wrote in message


    >> Use a compass and a watch.
    Ali, Dec 16, 2007
    #17
  18. Don Wiss

    Paul Furman Guest

    Don Wiss wrote:
    > I'd like to see someone create a Google mash-up that tells me when the sun
    > is in the direction I want. On the map you would put two points. One for
    > where you would be standing. The second would be off in the direction you
    > want to be looking. Then you would input a date. The program would return
    > the time on that date that the sun would be directly behind you.


    Last time I did something like this it was for considering passive solar
    building design, that might help you google up a solution.
    Paul Furman, Dec 16, 2007
    #18
  19. Don Wiss

    acl Guest

    Re: OT: Google mash-up I'd like to see

    On Dec 16, 12:18 am, Ilya Zakharevich <> wrote:
    > [A complimentary Cc of this posting was NOT [per weedlist] sent to
    > acl
    > <>], who wrote in article <>:
    >
    > > > (I was trying 3007). Anybody hear knowing: with the current precision
    > > > of data about sun/earth/moon system, for how long one can do reliable
    > > > prediction (say, with 15' error)?

    >
    > > > [I know that for Solar system as a whole, chaos appears in about 1e9
    > > > years increments (at least, this was state-of-art of 1990); but
    > > > even without chaos, errors in measurements would matter at some
    > > > moment...]

    > > Yes, that's funny isn't it, I know about Sussman and Wisdom's work,
    > > but have no clue about the accuracy to which this stuff is known in
    > > 100 years or so. Strange world.

    >
    > Aha, thanks for the reference (I presume you mean "Chaotic Evolution
    > of the Solar System" of 1992).


    Yes, although I haven't really read it (far too hairy for my taste,
    and I'm not an efficient paper-reader anyway). I just remembered
    someone telling me the conclusions a few years ago. I misremembered,
    too :)

    > What I remembered was slightly earlier
    > numerical experiments; they claimed that all the planets except Pluto
    > were not showing chaotic behaviour for 1e9 scale, and only the
    > trajectory of Pluto was chaotic; this was about '89 [I looked it up,
    > and I suspect it was from "Numerical evidence that the motion of Pluto
    > is chaotic" of '88; they say 2e7 years, not 1e9 I remembered]. I
    > forgot about the newer result; they get much higher dynamic entropy,
    > 1/(4e6 years)...
    >
    > Now to read the whole article [hmm, Science copy not accessible
    > through my usual channels...]. Fortunately, we have not only
    > academia, but also the armed forces:
    > http://handle.dtic.mil/100.2/ADA260055


    Has there not been more recent work on this? It's sort of interesting
    (the conclusions are, anyway).
    acl, Dec 17, 2007
    #19
  20. Re: OT: Google mash-up I'd like to see

    [A complimentary Cc of this posting was NOT [per weedlist] sent to
    acl
    <>], who wrote in article <>:
    > > Aha, thanks for the reference (I presume you mean "Chaotic Evolution
    > > of the Solar System" of 1992).


    > Yes, although I haven't really read it (far too hairy for my taste,
    > and I'm not an efficient paper-reader anyway). I just remembered
    > someone telling me the conclusions a few years ago. I misremembered,
    > too :)


    It is quite close to how I would do it... (And would do similar
    errors, judging by newer results...)

    > > What I remembered was slightly earlier
    > > numerical experiments; they claimed that all the planets except Pluto
    > > were not showing chaotic behaviour for 1e9 scale, and only the
    > > trajectory of Pluto was chaotic; this was about '89 [I looked it up,
    > > and I suspect it was from "Numerical evidence that the motion of Pluto
    > > is chaotic" of '88; they say 2e7 years, not 1e9 I remembered]. I
    > > forgot about the newer result; they get much higher dynamic entropy,
    > > 1/(4e6 years)...
    > >
    > > Now to read the whole article [hmm, Science copy not accessible
    > > through my usual channels...]. Fortunately, we have not only
    > > academia, but also the armed forces:
    > > http://handle.dtic.mil/100.2/ADA260055

    >
    > Has there not been more recent work on this? It's sort of interesting
    > (the conclusions are, anyway).


    I asked this myself... What I could find was

    arXiv: astro-ph/0702179v1 7 Feb
    Is the Outer Solar System Chaotic?
    Wayne B. Hayes

    (Reading between lines,) it says, in particular, that the integration
    step used by older papers was too long, so these results, even if
    true (which is kinda doubtful), are true only by coincidence.

    Then, it claims that different choices of initial data within the
    region of errors of the current astronomical data will give different
    answers: some have Lyapunov exponent of about 1/5e6 years, some will
    have it 0 (within error of calculations: they show no chaotic
    behaviour in 1Gyear simulations); some are in between.

    [My gut feeling (although very naive; I never actually did anything
    with chaos) is that this is not possible with systems of dimension
    more than 4: I would expect the non-integrable KAM region to be
    ergodic, thus Lyapunov exponent can take only 2 values: one finite,
    and one zero (in KAM regions).]

    Third, as far as I understand the math, the conclusions of the paper
    are self-contradictory (they claim that 64-bit precision is enough for
    calculations, AND show that with 64-bit precision, the accumulated
    error is much larger than the region where the behaviour is known to
    change).

    [I'll ask my friends who specialize in dynamic entropy when I meet them..]

    Hope this helps,
    Ilya
    Ilya Zakharevich, Dec 17, 2007
    #20
    1. Advertising

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

It takes just 2 minutes to sign up (and it's free!). Just click the sign up button to choose a username and then you can ask your own questions on the forum.
Similar Threads
  1. Plomaris

    Desktop can see Laptop, but Laptop can't see Desktop!

    Plomaris, Feb 16, 2006, in forum: Wireless Networking
    Replies:
    3
    Views:
    3,926
    Plomaris
    Feb 17, 2006
  2. Harry

    Hash mash

    Harry, Aug 8, 2004, in forum: Computer Support
    Replies:
    1
    Views:
    567
    Morgan Pugh
    Aug 8, 2004
  3. bosco rooty
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    456
    bosco rooty
    Sep 17, 2003
  4. Jeffman316
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    449
    Jeffman316
    Nov 15, 2004
  5. Jordan

    A bit PO'd about the MASH sets...

    Jordan, May 24, 2006, in forum: DVD Video
    Replies:
    30
    Views:
    1,972
    Rich Clark
    May 28, 2006
Loading...

Share This Page