Goodbye Giganews

Discussion in 'Computer Support' started by thanatoid, May 10, 2006.

  1. thanatoid

    thanatoid Guest

    Dear Giganews:

    I am posting to inform you that your arrogance and your blasé
    (at best) treatment of your paying customers has finally reached
    the point where I no longer consider it tolerable, no matter how
    good your Usenet service may or may not actually be. (And it
    appears to be slipping, judging by the comments in
    giganews.general.)

    I have been a customer of yours for over 3 years. Several times
    I have attempted to get "tech support", with results I would be
    generous to call disappointing (see posts quoted below).

    I have posted to your "local" newsgroup several times (see posts
    quoted below), asking valid and reasonable questions, and asking
    for some changes to improve the user experience. Those letters
    were either rudely answered with phrases like "do not rekindle
    the subject as it is considered dead and buried" or totally
    ignored.

    I am not the only person who has raised some of those concerns.
    The others were treated in the same manner.

    Then there is the matter of being rude and providing virtually
    zero customer service versus just playing dirty. Since you
    refused to discuss let alone explain why you will not put in a
    search engine, I figured out a way to find stuff on your site
    almost instantly, even though my NR does not support NZB files.

    I guess I was stupid to actually use one of your local groups
    for the procedure required. It worked for about a month, than it
    stopped working. I know I will never find out why, but there is
    only one conclusion I can arrive at: You maliciously disabled
    the part of your "unique and proprietary system" that allowed my
    simple method to work. Hard to believe, but many things are.

    By a lucky and ubelievably timely coincidence, my credit card
    expired at the end of April, and the replacement got lost in the
    mail, so I will be getting a new number. So I don't even have to
    go through the equivalent of a full rectal examination that
    attempting to terminate an account with you is probably like.

    While your Usenet service was nearly excellent, regrettably it
    was VASTLY exceeded by your arrogance.

    Undoubtedly, some of your clients - those who apparently enjoy
    the fact there there is no more quality control, customer
    service, manners, or anything like those things to be found
    almost anywhere in the world - will come to your rescue, like
    they have in the past (since you yourselves don't bother
    replying to 95% of the posts addressed to you).

    I can only feel sorry for them. I wonder what they do when they
    buy a $1,000 TV and it doesn't work properly... Do they just put
    it in the garage and go buy another one, thanking the store
    manager for allowing them to visit again?

    I know from past experience that you will not deign this post
    with a response. Nor would I read it if you did.

    Sincerely,

    thanatoid
    a Former Customer

    == == == ==

    Included for Usenet community education purposes are a few
    relevant posts from the past, in chronological order.

    Comments in CAPS between == == == == are to make it easier to
    sort through them.

    I know it's long, but IMO it is WELL WORTH reading.

    == == == ==

    Sat, 07 Feb 2004

    Newsgroups: giganews.general
    Subject: late comment on "30 day retention"

    I only come in here when I have to.

    Most interesting thread.

    Funny how the "threat" of possible loss of a client
    ("outgrowing") DID prompt an appropriate reply.

    de•fen•sive (di fen‚siv) adj.1. serving or done for the
    purpose of resisting attack. 2. of or pertaining to defense.
    3. sensitive to the threat of criticism or injury to one's
    ego. — n.4. a position or attitude of defense: on the
    defensive about one's mistakes. [1350–1400; ME < MF < ML]

    As you see, there are several meanings to the word
    "defensive". Defending your legitimate position is one.
    "Being defensive" (item 3 and 4 above) is another, and it
    means specifically, acting somewhat inappropriately and
    perhaps rashly in defending a position which has clearly (to
    all but the person being defensive) been proven wrong or
    inaccurate etc. in some way or another.

    I am sorry to say that's how I perceived most of the posts
    from Jason and Michael.

    Specifically, I found Michael's splitting hairs about
    "intentions" versus "fact" troubling. More than Jason's
    defensiveness, in fact.

    Someone already mentioned that the road to hell is paved with
    good intentions. Whatever whomever's intentions may have
    been, the announcement said "30 day retention in all binary
    groups". PERIOD.

    A later statement from Michael, "Our retention is going to be
    a floating number always" is probably the most accurate and
    illuminating of all, but it is certainly nowhere near the
    meaning of "30 day retention in all binary groups."

    Personally, I thought the 30 days retention was FANTASTIC and
    basically made ALL OTHER usenet providers obsolete as of that
    moment. I actually thought it was overkill, but I certainly
    wasn't going to complain. I didn't think I would ever NEED
    the 30 days (even with my 33.6 modem) but alas, today (Feb.
    6) I did, and an article in a.b.s.mp3-gothic-industrial
    dated Jan 9 was not available, even with XNews' "server
    override", which sometimes helps.

    I was RATHER disappointed and came here to see what's up.
    And, FWTW, these are my comments.

    BTW, why IS there a giganews.announce? Nothing ever gets
    posted there. And I think I found out about the "30-day
    retention" from a third party source - I did NOT receive ANY
    announcement of any kind. I would think sending a mere 60 or
    70K customers an email would be a standard procedure when
    changing server names or addresses, or making significant
    changes in retention or other policies. And I don't think one
    should have to lurk in giganews.general all the time just to
    know what's going on.

    And, again, the news release was NOT "Giganews announces
    intention of 30-day retention in all binary groups". THAT
    would have been laughable to anyone. It did NOT say "30 day
    retention as long as we don't get more than XXXXXGB of data
    per day" nor did it say "30 days after we do some mystical
    calculations with our proprietary software" nor did it say
    "30 days if our system manager OK's it that particular day".

    The statement WAS :

    >:>:>:> Giganews is pleased to announce a new standard in
    >:>:>:> newsgroup retention. We will now offer 30 days of
    >:>:>:> article retention in all binary newsgroups."


    So PLEASE stop claiming otherwise. It is really
    unbecoming!!!

    == == == ==

    NO REPLY, OF COURSE.

    == == == ==

    Thu, 21 Apr 2005

    Subject: MANY parts intermittently missing
    Newsgroups: giganews.general

    Hello GN,

    MAIN PROBLEM:
    Over the last couple of weeks, I have been forced to re-dl a
    large amount of posts because even though the headers load up as
    complete, once downloading, there are many parts mysteriously
    missing. This causes XNews to skip to the next article, where
    usually the same thing happens. I have often had this problem
    with about 10 or 15 or more posts. It happens with 10-day old
    posts as easily as with 40-day old posts.

    I check the machine in the morning and find it has been sitting
    idle (though connected) for 5 hours, because XNews will not re-
    attempt to DL a post that was found incomplete. So I do a bunch
    of annoying manual "read - not-read" etc. tagging, and try
    again. 90% of the time it downloads fine. 10% of the time it
    doesn't. So sometimes I have to do it again, and eventually it
    works. Sometimes I use the "override server" function, sometimes
    I don't. Doesn't seem to make much of a difference.

    I've been with you guys for a few years and this is a new
    problem that has not gone away almost immediately like some
    other minor problems I have experienced in the past. It is very
    annoying to see that I have wasted 5 hours or more of potential
    DL time. I have a 33.6 modem so time IS of essence. It's not
    like it will take me 7 minutes to re-DL everything I missed.

    I use the 216.196.97.135 server (I believe that's the "south"
    one) and always have.
    Below you will find the headers to 2 of the last 12 or so posts
    that this happened with, this morning.


    MINOR PROBLEM:
    BTW I have complained in the past (to no avail) about the total
    lack of announcements from GN about any changes to their
    servers, pricing structures, etc. I have NO idea what is going
    on, and even though given the speed of my modem, there have so
    far been no reasons to change to another server or pricing plan,
    it would be really nice to know what the company is up to.

    When something like (see above) happens I can't help wondering
    if maybe my server is not being "attented properly" because it
    is not the "groovy-fast hot NOW server" etc...

    I would be nice to see announcements posted to the historically
    dead giganews.announce NG (WHY was it ever established?) since
    GN apppears unable or unwilling to send relevant emails directly
    to their clients. I do not see why I should have to go to the
    website every few weeks just to see what major development or
    change in service I may not be aware of.

    <SNIP> (irrelevant header info)

    Thank you.

    == == == ==

    STRANGELY ENOUGH, I RECEIVED SOME REPLIES TO THIS ONE, EVEN ONE
    FROM GIGANEWS (!). HERE IS THE (ABBREVIATED) THREAD:

    == == == ==

    From GN:

    > Hello,
    >
    > We are looking at the group you mentioned for any
    > irregularities.
    >
    > Can you open a ticket with so we can
    > address any issue that may be specific to your problem.
    > Other Giganews customers are not having an issue like you
    > are describing.
    >
    > Thank you for choosing Giganews.


    == == == ==

    MY REPLY TO ANOTHER USER WHO FOLLOWED-UP (THE STUFF AT THE
    BEGINING IS GN'S FINAL COMMENT ON MY PROBLEM):

    == == == ==

    Thu, 28 Apr 2005

    Subject: Re: MANY parts intermittently missing

    <SNIP>

    >> Hello,
    >>
    >> We did not find any issue with the information that you
    >> provided. We are still available to assist you if you can
    >> e-mail
    >>
    >> Thank you for choosing Giganews!
    >>

    >
    > Perhaps he's encountering the problem I encounter every
    > once in while. Periodically, when I set XNews to download
    > several multipart binaries, it will crap out on some
    > individual part, placing a red question mark where
    > previously the little note-pad appeared, indicating that
    > the part is not on the server. XNews will then skip the
    > rest of that multipart and move on to the next one.
    >
    > I've found though, that if I click on the subject part,
    > XNews will ask if I want to check groups or something on
    > Google. If I say no and/or double- click on it, XNews will
    > cache the part, get rid of the question mark and remark it
    > for batch downloading.
    >
    > However, I've always attributed the problem to XNews rather
    > than Giganews because invariably the part with the question
    > mark is on the server. XNews just fails to download it
    > sequentially for some reason and requires, to the best of
    > my knowledge, manual intervention.
    >
    > If this is what the original poster inquired about and if
    > someone knows what may cause the dreaded red question mark
    > to appear when the article is in fact on the server, I
    > would sure appreciate knowing how to get around it. Thanks
    > y'all!


    Thank you for your responses - I haven't checked the group for a
    few days since I contacted support directly as asked. They said
    it was an Xnews problem.
    But I have been using the GN/XN combo for several years and this
    has never happened before.

    Anyway, to answer Lil' Abner, I know parts are missing because
    the "dreaded red question mark" appears on the part Xnews could
    not locate, and then Xnews skips to the next post. As I
    originally mentioned, sometimes all the posts in the queue end
    up with the red QM and then the machine sits idle for the rest
    of the night (wasting valuable 33.6 modem download time ;-)

    Since this happens while I am asleep, I can't do any "manual"
    overrides until the next day. As described in the original post,
    they work fine. Anyway, I KNOW that the posts are on the server,
    just not accessible for some reason at a certain point in time.

    In fact, the last time this happened it happened at almost
    exactly the same time in two different groups. As if the
    server's RAM or HD choked momentarily or something (excuse my
    ignorant attempt at guessing the technical reason).

    Since this has NEVER happened before, I didn't think it was
    Xnews' fault, even though GN techs said Xn is known for such
    problems.

    I did nothing, yet the problem has gone away. I was going to
    wait a few more days before emailing support again, but having
    seen your replies I am writing this now.

    Like (presumably) many of you, I have often been FORCED to
    accept a problem as unexplainable, and just be grateful that it
    has gone away or that I (or someone) somehow managed to solve
    it. In this case, I suspect GN did do something, since I had the
    problem for almost two weeks or so and it disappeared once I
    wrote tech support directly, even though they blamed it on
    Xnews.

    While I have never subscribed to another premium usenet service,
    it appears there is none finer than GN. At the same time, they
    >>appear<< to have a corporate policy of almost never admitting

    there is/was a problem. The tech support answer I received
    (after providing ALL the info requested including the almost
    exact times the problem occurred in TWO groups simultaneously)
    was immediate and extremely polite yet useless since it blamed
    Xnews which I have been using for years totally problem-free
    (nor has anything changed in the system setup etc).

    What is curious is that since that GN reply, the problem has
    disappeared. What am I to think? I did nothing. They appear to
    say THEY did nothing. Yet the problem of two weeks is gone.

    I am tempted to thank GN for immediately fixing my problem even
    though they won't admit they did. Of course, they >>may<< have
    in fact done >>nothing<< as well, in which case it is another
    addition to the "unexplainable" file.

    Anyway, thanks for your comments and thank you GN for doing
    whatever you did or did not do. Keep up the great work.

    == == == ==

    Mon, 07 Nov 2005

    Subject: Re: Could GigaNews implement a search engine? Someone
    from GN care to reply????
    Newsgroups: giganews.general

    Moo Cow () wrote in
    news::

    > Newleecher does a good one once you have their software.
    > Saves so much time
    >
    > Moo


    Yes, I'm aware of NewsLeecher, their price and their monthly
    fees. It also won't run on my computer. I also already pay for
    this service and have donated a fair bit to the guy who wrote
    XNews even though it's free.

    I am a Giganews customer and I am looking for a Giganews
    solution.

    I could have switched to another cheaper provider who provides a
    search utility a long time ago had I wanted to.

    I would appreciate it if someone from Giganews would take a few
    minutes of their time to address my post.

    == == == ==

    I'LL LET YOU GUESS WHAT HAPPENED.

    == == == ==

    Mon, 07 Nov 2005

    Subject: Could GigaNews implement a search engine? We could
    really use one.
    Newsgroups: :giganews.general

    Dear Giganews:

    A few Usenet providers have a search feature. I don't know much
    about them, so I can't say what features they offer etc.

    There are some web sites which provide a similar service, in
    fact I would be dead without them. Still, since article numbers
    differ for each provider, they are not posted, and you have to
    search by date or poster, and some groups have like 50 thousand
    posts per day. Takes a while, especially with a 33.6 modem. I
    would imagine even with a broadband connection it still takes
    SOME time.

    I wonder whether some of the resources directed towards
    increasing retention to levels many consider beyond insane could
    perhaps be directed towards developing a search engine for
    Giganews customers.

    I think we would all be EXTREMELY grateful if something like
    that became available.

    Thank you for your attention.

    == == == ==

    I GOT A RESPONSE - NEEDLESS TO SAY, NOT FROM GN - AND I REPLIED
    TO IT:

    == == == ==

    Mon, 07 Nov 2005

    Subject: Re: Could GigaNews implement a search engine? We could
    really use one.
    Newsgroups: giganews.general

    Flavio Tischhauser <> wrote
    in news::

    > Hi
    >
    > AFAIK, the only reason why usenet is still "legal" is the
    > fact that it's officially an uncontrolled media for general
    > text-discussion. Usenet was never built to host any files
    > at all.
    >
    > Once a provider agrees he is hosting files instead of
    > "uncontrolled text-discussion" they might get some legal
    > problems - And providing a "file search service" is one way
    > of admitting that.
    >
    > Providing an independent indexing and searching service on
    > the other hand, is usually no problem at all. And for 50c a
    > week, it's not really a big problem.


    >
    > thanatoid wrote:


    <SNIP> see post above

    Well, thanks very much for helping the cause, Flavio.

    If other premium providers can do it, I don't see why Giganews
    can't, but you just gave them an excuse in case they needed one.

    Actually, your logic is faulty. Leaving other things aside,
    indexing articles by name and server ID number does not say
    anything either about the article or its content. If someone
    wants to post all of Shakespeare's works (public domain) in a
    30-part rar post and call it "Madonna's latest" or "old texts"
    or "Thatcher naked mpg", who's to say they can't?

    Of course, 99% of everything Giganews and everyone else carries
    is copyrighted, pirated, illegal, etc material. I am personally
    amazed that the "we just carry it, we don't know and don't care
    what it is and where it comes from" argument has held up this
    long.

    So while we still have the internet (and there ARE providers
    already eliminating certain groups, especially those having to
    do with the Hollywood turning-trash-into-money machine), it
    would
    be nice to get the most out of it.

    As far as the 50-cent a week independent indexing service I
    would appreciate it if you told me what it is, since I am not
    aware of one.

    == == == ==

    AND IT CONTINUED:

    == == == ==

    Subject: Re: Could GigaNews implement a search engine? We could
    really use one.
    Newsgroups: giganews.general

    <SNIP>

    > > If other premium providers can do it, I don't see why
    > > Giganews can't, but you just gave them an excuse in case
    > > they needed one.

    >
    > I think it's all a matter of "how far can we go before
    > everything collapses". Giganews is a very professional
    > company and providing full usenet access can already be
    > risky. I not saying they will never introduce such a
    > service, I could understand if they won't.


    What you mean by "everything collapsing"? There are hundreds of
    Usenet-only providers all over the world (well, maybe not in
    China etc) and MOST standard ISP's of some quality still have
    Usenet servers even though the storage/retention is now
    extremely limited due to the huge growth since the old days when
    all daily messages could fit on a couple of floppies. Usenet was
    designed to be indestructible through its redundancy so I don't
    see how it can be "made illegal" (a lot of its content always
    has been) or exterminated.

    So what is so risky for a provider? Even using IE you instantly
    are told what the bunch of 0's and 1's contain, so you can't
    tell me you really think the entire reason Usenet is still being
    provided (in fact growing albeit thousands of times slower than
    the glorious "web") is because everyone IS asked yet claim they
    have NO IDEA what is being stored on their servers???

    "Ignorance of the law is no excuse" comes to mind.

    And there are some groups giganews is already censoring because
    of content, so if that isn't an admission of their actual
    awareness of what the usenet technology actually is, then what
    is?

    The days when you had to go through 4 or 5 steps to get anything
    other than a text message are long gone! You can't honestly tell
    me that you think that when someone from Hollywood calls
    giganews and says, "hey, there is a pre-release-copy of "Chicken
    Little" on your servers, what the hell!?" they say, "sorry we
    have no idea of what you are talking about and we are in no way
    able to verify that information" ????????

    > > Of course, 99% of everything Giganews and everyone else
    > > carries is copyrighted, pirated, illegal, etc material. I
    > > am personally amazed that the "we just carry it, we don't
    > > know and don't care what it is and where it comes from"
    > > argument has held up this long.

    >
    > Not directly, Giganews only hosts text-messages that _can_
    > sometimes be decoded to files which might be illegal to
    > download in some countries. Since GN can't see any "files",
    > they can't remove them. Once they introduce
    > file-based-indexing, it's like saying "wohoo we finally
    > found a way to index all our files, come over here and
    > download your warez!". Probably not that wise. At least
    > that's my point of view.


    "_can_ sometimes" ?? Get real, man! You are beginning to sound
    like Bush talking about Iraq!

    Nothing on any computer is "directly" what it is. It all comes
    down to the 250 or so extended ascii characters or down to 0's
    an 1's, not to mention magnetism and things beyond if you want
    to get deeper.

    Giganews (and others) can't possibly say, "yes we're in
    the business of hosting terabytes of indecipherable text
    gibberish and for some incomprehensible reason, many people all
    over the world enjoy sending and receiving it so much that they
    pay us as much as $20 a month to do so".

    And ultimately, what about the other premium providers who ARE
    providing search engines? They haven't all been shut down have
    they? Nor are they about to be, I don't think.

    <SNIP>

    > > I had just woken up when I wrote the above reply and
    > > missed a crucial point. As your exhaustive knowledge of
    > > Usenet and its purposes as approved by our rulers
    > > should tell you, article ID numbers are different for
    > > every server, therefore whether free, 50-cents a month,
    > > or $50 a month external indexing service will do nothing
    > > for a particular provider's customer.

    >
    > Yes, article IDs are. Global message IDs aren't. And that's
    > what independent indexing services are indexing.


    Exactly. Please explain to me of what practical use global
    message ID's can be to anyone since you can not do a global
    message ID search "within" a provider structure. Or maybe you
    can and I'm just ignorant...?

    Thank you and regards.

    == == == ==

    FLAVIO, BEING A BIG GN FAN, AT THIS POINT ADOPTED THEIR HABIT OF
    NOT REPLYING.

    STRANGELY ENOUGH, SOMEONE AT GN BOTHERED TO... SORT OF...

    == == == ==

    From: Giganews Support <>
    Subject: Giganews services (was search engine)
    Newsgroups: giganews.general

    Greetings,

    The previous thread got a bit out of hand and off topic. I am
    sure (like
    most newsgroup discussions) the debate could go on for quite
    some time!

    All that said, Giganews has no plans to offer any kind of search
    engine.
    We have offered NNTP (RFCs 977 and 2980) access to Usenet since
    1994
    (before the Giganews name was even thought of!). The size of a
    Usenet
    feed back then was measured in Megabytes a day! We will
    continue to offer
    access to Usenet through NNTP, but we will not offer other forms
    of access
    to Usenet.

    If you are an uber geek and want to actually read the RFCs, here
    they are:
    http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc0977.txt
    http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2980.txt

    The Giganews software development team used these RFCs to create
    the
    Giganews server software. We are very proud of our software and
    the
    highest quality service it provides our customers.

    I hope that clears up the previous thread. Please do not
    rekindle the
    previous thread as it is considered dead and buried!

    Regards,

    Giganews Support

    == == == ==

    MY TRANSLATION OF THE ABOVE:
    WE WERE ONE OF THE FIRST. WE ARE THE BEST. WE ARE THE ONLY ONES
    DOING IT RIGHT. YOU ARE AN ANNOYING JERK. SHUT UP ONCE AND FOR
    ALL.

    == == == ==

    Fri, 02 Dec 2005

    Subject: Re: A feature suggestion.
    Newsgroups: giganews.general

    bunnyip <> wrote in
    news::

    > On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 22:16:34 +0100, "K." <k> wrote:
    >
    >>I would love to see a search feature on the giganews site,
    >>just for members ofcourse.
    >>
    >>With the long retention time it can really be a big job
    >>updating big groups. So a possibility to search all the
    >>groups and create a .nzb file, would really make it alot
    >>easier to find what you want.
    >>
    >>There are services that can do that for you right now, both
    >>paysites, and free ones.
    >>But as i see it Giganews would also have something to gain
    >>from this feature, and that would be reduced serverloads,
    >>and also standing out even more, from the rest of the news
    >>providers.
    >>
    >>This may have been suggested before, and been turned down,
    >>but i've just been thinking about, and missing, that
    >>feature a very long time, so i thought i would write it
    >>here.
    >>
    >>Regards
    >>K.
    >>

    >
    > I suspect that having a fully indexed search database could
    > open up 'old' Napster-style legal issues, especially as all
    > content is stored on GN's own servers.
    >
    > By completely separating the service (treating it as a
    > conduit) and the content matter it provides, GN is
    > sidestepping such issues: it is merely a carrier.
    >
    > bunnyip
    >


    I really don't understand this argument, but then again I'm not
    a lawyer. Everyone who is aware of the Usenet's existence (a
    relatively small group to begin with) knows that at one time or
    another, it has contained basically everything, in one place or
    another, more or less easily accessible, and that it is
    constantly replicating itself, and reposting everything sooner
    or later, and even though there has been some mainly Hollywood-
    related arm-twisting, it's minor.

    If groups have names, as even GN will not deny, then you can't
    claim utter "ignorance of content" or however you want to put
    it. Names may or may not reflect actual content (what the hell
    is control.walter-cronkite or alt.binaries.cbsrmt or
    alt.beneficent.daemons.bless and who has the time to bother
    finding out ?) yet GN have made decisions not to carry certain
    groups. Not entirely understandable, consistent or logical, IMO,
    especially when you consider the way some people crosspost
    without any sense or logic whatsoever. I once complained about
    something being way off-topic in some text group and mentioned
    the group name as supposedly indicative of content and was
    mercilessly flamed for it by many. Of course, the opposite
    happens as well. The point is, it's all kind of insane.

    I'm the one who suggested the search feature a month or two ago
    and after some interesting discussion, someone from GN finally
    bothered to reply with something to the effect of "we're not
    gonna do
    it so please stop talking about it."

    All Usenet content is stored on each company's own servers, not
    in some one secret place. Ultra-redundancy was the whole point
    of making the Usenet virtually indestructible.

    While I can only applaud GN's service in general, I find it
    peculiar that they won't even discuss a search engine. If others
    can do it, why can't they? It's great that they have their own
    proprietary software and everything, and their service is
    obviously excellent, but they act a little bit like a stern
    teacher who you respect but can't really love.

    For instance I would LIKE to ask them how, as they claim, THEIR
    software improves service as more users sign on it when logic
    tells you it should be otherwise (and they say with other
    providers it IS otherwise) but frankly, I'm afraid to!

    And the third party search engines are useless since they do not
    provide article numbers which are unique to each provider. The
    best you can get is the date, which sometimes can be off by a
    day. So you still have to spend HOURS looking for the post that
    you know is there somewhere. Some groups have dozens of
    thousands of posts daily.
    (Well, at least with GN, you KNOW it IS there somewhere.)

    I guess if you have broadband it's not a big deal, but I for one
    have a 33.6 modem.

    Sigh.

    == == == ==

    AGAIN, NEEDLESS TO SAY, THE ABOVE POST WAS TOTALLY IGNORED AS
    WELL.

    == == == ==

    Wed, 01 Feb 2006

    Subject: Re: 7 days lost on almost every important groups !
    Newsgroups: giganews.general

    <> wrote in
    news:
    om:

    <SNIP>

    > Dragomir has a serious point.
    >>
    >>But seriously; what practical difference does 63 vs 70 day
    >>retention make?

    >
    > One week of retention, as advertised on the website - it
    > means that if you see something's (say) at 65 days then you
    > still have 5 days to DL; to have it disappear suddenly is
    > frustrating in the leats.
    >>
    >>It sounds like you need better treatment for your OCD, more
    >>than anything else.

    >
    > It sounds as though you need to take lessons in
    > appreciating other people's POV, more than anything else.
    >
    > BJ
    >
    >>A_C
    >>


    ===ALL=== of Dragomir's points are VERY well-taken and MORE THAN
    RELEVANT.
    Not that the GN staff gives a crap. They are just happy being
    the best and never doing anything wrong.

    == == == ==

    PROBABLY BECAUSE I ACCUSED THEM OF "NOT GIVING A CRAP", THIS ONE
    ACTUALLY GOT A REPLY FROM GN, PARTIALLY QUOTED IN MY FOLLOW-UP:

    == == == ==

    Wed, 22 Feb 2006

    Newsgroups: giganews.general
    Subject: SOME SERIOUS CONCERNS. Michael D. and Jonah PLEASE read
    AND reply.

    Jonah at Giganews <> wrote in
    news::

    <SNIP>

    >: >>But seriously; what practical difference does 63 vs 70
    >: >>day retention make?
    >: >
    >: > One week of retention, as advertised on the website - it
    >: > means that if you see something's (say) at 65 days then
    >: > you still have 5 days to DL; to have it disappear
    >: > suddenly is frustrating in the least.


    <SNIP>

    >: ===ALL=== of Dragomir's points are VERY well-taken and
    >: MORE THAN RELEVANT.
    >: Not that the GN staff gives a crap. They are just happy
    >: being the best and never doing anything wrong.


    > We very much "give a crap" about the service we provide.
    > If we didn't give a crap do you think the service would
    > work so well? We have staff members working round the
    > clock to make sure our service works all the time for our
    > customers. Our staff works weekends, nights, wee hours of
    > the mornings, etc. handling problems that come up.


    <SNIP>

    > Please be assured that everyone on our staff cares about
    > your service. Offering premium service isn't some motto
    > that is thought up in a marketing think tank, its working
    > our tails off everyday to provide quality service to our
    > customers.
    >
    > Jonah
    > Giganews


    Hi Jonah,

    I appreciate the time you took to reply. While I can't help
    wondering if it wasn't that very phrase that made you do so, I
    will nevertheless apologize for the "crap" comment. I just tend
    to get annoyed at things that just DO NOT MAKE SENSE.

    And, while you are the best as >provider< and I don't think
    anyone can dispute that, there are a few things that have been
    on my mind over the last few years:

    1) LOCAL GROUPS

    (getting the least important one out of the way first)

    You have 8 or something "local" groups yet only one or two
    appear to be ever used (apart from the "test" one which I would
    assume - I haven't bothered to enter - is used by people
    considerate enough to test in a test group instead of polluting
    the entire world with their trials and errors). The others are
    redundant, which you (GN staff) yourself have mentioned
    (presumably more than on the one occasion I read it). I realize
    one of the "charms" of Usenet is that there are 150K groups and
    about half have had 10 or less articles in the last 2 years (I
    am just guessing) and should be eradicated from our universe,
    but can not be. But is doing the SAME thing on YOUR LOCAL groups
    just a little "in-joke" or what?

    2) COMMUNICATION WITH CUSTOMERS and PRICES

    You used to NEVER email any announcements (at least I never got
    any). Now you do sporadically, but the subjects are NEVER the
    important ones. Like the latest one, "Giganews Increasing
    Storage Once Again" which I received a couple of days ago. Ya-
    awn. Yes, the sky is blue, and GN is increasing their storage in
    their never ending-quest for longest retention (see below).

    I also keep getting announcements (half of the one I just
    mentioned was about this) about reward points. But never about
    important things, like new servers. I have my reader set to an
    IP address not name and had problems when you switched
    everything around a couple of years ago. I wrote several times,
    never DID get a direct answer to my questions (in fact, IIRC,
    according to the little actual info I was given, the server I
    was and am still using doesn't even exist!), but did finally
    manage to sort it out.

    That is NOT great customer service. That's what we are talking
    about here, not about the fact that you probably have the best
    usenet setup in the world. That has been accepted and
    appreciated and commented upon. But your customer service is
    like being madly in love with a woman who won't even look at
    you.

    However, I must mention that I DO appreciate the fact that you
    are allowing people to keep old account pricing and not forcing
    them to change to the new rates. I have a 6 GB limit and with my
    33.6 modem could NEVER dl 25GB a month, while 2GB is not quite
    enough. And I REALLY appreciate the fact you have NOT forced me
    to pay more for what for me would be a very expensive and
    totally useless "upgrade" which would also leave me no choice
    but to change providers. I trust you will continue this policy.

    While we're talking about prices, I have NO complaints. Let's
    face it, should one choose to, one could download hundreds
    (thousands?) of dollars' worth of software etc. every month, so
    what's 10 or 25 bucks? Besides, considering the quality of your
    service, it is actually quite reasonably priced, IMO. Maybe even
    a bargain.

    Most other providers' prices are comparable and from what I have
    read around here and other places, no one comes really close in
    actual service (except for group lists, see below). People don't
    mind paying $4 for a Starbucks latte every day but a few bucks a
    month for Usenet is "expensive"?

    3) WE ARE GODS

    I wish you were a little more forthcoming with your customers. I
    have had occasional problems, and complained about them. At one
    time, after about 5 continuous days of a weird problem, and
    getting the standard response telling me to check obvious
    things, I did nothing (since there wasn't anything I COULD do),
    while you CLAIMED to have done nothing since your system was
    runing "perfectly", yet the problems immediately disappeared. Is
    it a crime to say "yes, there was a problem, but we fixed it,
    and fast"?

    Of course, it COULD just have been a freak accident. But its
    resolution was a little too clean, too quick, and too
    coincidental with my complaint.

    (In all fairness, this condescending attitude appears to have
    improved somewhat recently.)

    4) SEARCH ENGINE

    You said you will NOT implement a search engine for your (I am
    guessing now close to 100,000) PAYING USERS (while dozens of
    other places provide them, some free, some not) but will not
    explain why. Some over-helpful contributors to this group have
    suggested that by claiming utter ignorance of the content of
    groups (however incomprehensible that may be) you are guarding
    yourself against various copyright and law-enforcement
    organizations. I don't know your reasons because you refuse to
    discuss the subject.

    OK, you have made RATHER clear you will not provide a search
    engine - but perhaps you might deign the great unwashed clients
    of yours with something approaching an explanation why. I really
    DIDN'T appreciate the Stalinist response of "do not rekindle the
    subject as it is considered dead and buried". Really put an ugly
    shadow to the pretty color of your fine service. That's why I
    went looking around. You may be the best but you are not the
    ONLY ones with acceptable service. I think that's something you
    should keep in mind when looking at customer comments and
    requests.

    5) INCOMPLETE GROUP LIST AND REQUESTS

    Unlike many other providers, you do not carry (or add) all
    groups. I had to ask for a couple once, and they were added. I
    should not have had to ask. Some requests are ignored or
    unattended to for months.

    Basically, IMO, as long as there is an article in a group,
    binary or text, in English or Swahili, posted with UUE or yEnc,
    single- or multi-part, zipped/rar'd or not, that group should be
    carried. Especially by the best provider in the world.

    Did you know that thanks to the internet (it may not have been
    Usenet itself, I'm not sure) that a VERY common psychological
    test (The Rorschach) can no longer be profesionally used since a
    few years ago someone posted the whole set somewhere with an
    extensve interpretaion, explanation and even instructions on how
    to cheat on it? There are benefits and dangers to free
    information. But that's a subject which could be discussed
    forever.

    Sometimes I wish I lived in the 19th century when there was no
    TV and no computers and people read books instead of overloading
    themselves with largely useless and exteremely transient
    "information", but such is the world today.

    Maybe some people only subscribe to two or three groups and have
    never even browsed and have no intention of doing so. Still, the
    BEST Usenet >provider< in the world should >provide< ALL of the
    Usenet. Just as a matter of PRINCIPLE.

    (OTOH you are more than welcome to stop carrying groups with no
    articles - and there are many. Your system can automatically add
    them if someone ever posts something in the future.)

    5) GROUP CREATION

    After your last "response" to my request for a search engine, I
    went looking around for other providers. One of the things I
    noticed is that many offer a "group creation" service. While I
    must admit I have mixed feelings about that (A-I know it's very
    easy to create an alt. hierarchy group and B-I don't like the
    idea of thousands of idiotic new groups), I also think that if
    properly managed, it could be quite useful. I have wanted to
    create a few groups over the years but was just too lazy. (Yes,
    I know, I shouldn't be so lazy.) And there are many people doing
    important work in the real world who do not enter Usenet because
    they know little or nothing about computers and creating a group
    IS beyond their capabilitites.

    As long as every proposal was looked at and examined in the
    interest of not creating stupid or redundant groups, and only
    really "valid" new groups were in fact created (hopefully with
    an explanation for the person who made the rejected request), it
    would be a very nice thing to have. I don't think it would be
    that time-consuming, either.

    6) STANDARD REPLIES TO ALL TECH PROBLEMS

    Every e-mail to support gets a standard form answer containing
    information only an absolute beginner would not know about. It's
    very frustrating. Thankfully, it is extremely rare to need to
    request help but, as one example, in Dragomir's case, it appears
    he had some serious problems and according to his post, no one
    addressed them until his long complaint in this group.

    (Of course, I do not know all the facts, and it seems you have
    fixed the problems he was complaining about, which he has
    thanked you for in this same forum. Still, why did he have to
    post his complaint here in the first place?)

    It would be nice if a filter of some sort was implemented (word
    recognition) which could weed out the newbie problems from real
    problems. Then the serious issues could be addressed immediately
    instead of a user being stuck with a sometimes serious problem
    for a few extra days. Seeing those form replies is VERY VERY
    frustrating.

    7) THE GREAT RETENTION COMPETITION

    This is beginning to border on ridiculous. You won't make a
    search engine or automatically add/carry all groups or answer
    support e-mail properly yet you fight for more and more
    retention as if the future of the planet depended on it.

    Is this a race of some sort? You won, OK?

    Text group retention of almost three years? You ARE aware Google
    has all text articles ever posted for free (AND a very advanced
    search engine for them) and is a thousand times faster than
    Usenet (at least on dial-up)? (I don't know HOW they do it but
    I'd sure like to.) I know text takes relatively little space,
    but it does not take NO space. Not to mention the cluster
    factor.

    Binaries are a different animal. You constantly claim to have
    reached a new longer retention limit yet it never seems to stand
    up in practice.

    Like Dragomir said, why claim 70 when you can only really manage
    50-65 depending on traffic? Sure, we pay you for the redundancy
    (and I enjoyed your description of this previously-unknown to me
    aspect of your system, thank you) and retention, but IMO no one
    needs 70 or even 60 days retention. Not anyone who is at least
    partially in control of their brain and computer and has at
    least a moderate sense of organization. (Not to mention that
    when I sometimes complain about excessively large posts I am
    often told "it's the age of broadband so shut up".)

    I have a 33.6 modem and I see no need for more than 30 or maybe
    45 days retention! (Not to mention that almost everything gets
    reposted sooner or later anyway.)

    And whatever you meant by "smooth edge" in
    <> when you
    mentioned that you deleted all articles older than 50 days in
    some groups (while claiming 70 days retention)? That was NOT
    acceptable, even if it only WAS 1%.

    Don't say 70 if it's not 70! Dragomir's complaint was totally
    justified.

    From a post of yours:

    ": Today, it's worse than ever.
    : On every binary group (at least the most important ones) your
    : retention has suddenly fallen to 63-64 days.
    This is expected as posting volume grows. When we send an
    announcement on retention ugprades, the estimate in # of days is
    a point in time reference. If posting volume grows (which it
    almost always does) then retention in days will decrease."

    Besides the barely comprehensible manner in which you replied I
    REALLY don't understand this attitude. Why do you make claims
    about 70 days? Why not say "50 or more" and MAKE DAMN SURE IT
    NEVER FALLS UNDER 50 and anything older is just a bonus? I would
    consider that MUCH more ethical AND user-friendly. When one is
    told one can DL something posted 68 days ago, it is RATHER
    unpleasant to find out one CAN NOT. That is not "best provider"
    behavior.

    I would be REALLY happy to NEVER see another proud announcement
    of a, no offense, semi-ficticious retention upgrade but know FOR
    DAMN SURE it's 50 in ALL binary groups, and, if I am lucky, I
    MAY be able to get something older.

    (I would also like to mention that IMO it is in some of the
    less-populated (and less-known) groups that the longest
    retention may be the most important, unlike for instance the
    biggest mp3 groups where the latest Rolling Stones album was
    posted, AFAICT, like 30 times in two weeks.)

    8) FINAL WORDS

    I apologize for this being so long. But as a paying and loyal
    customer, I believe I am entitled to a proper response. Then
    I'll never bother you again, I promise.

    Thank you for offering GigaNews.

    thanatoid

    P.S.
    Over-helpful contributors to the group - no offense, but please
    let GN speak for themselves this time. You can always comment
    afterwards. THANK YOU.

    == == == ==
    == == == ==
    == == == ==

    NEEDLESS TO SAY, THIS LAST POST WAS NEVER REPLIED TO EXCEPT BY
    TWO GN USERS, ONE OF WHOM SAID HE AGREED WITH EVERYTHING I SAID,
    WHILE THE OTHER STATED THAT CUSTOMERS LIKE ME WERE NOT "WORTH
    THE TROUBLE OF HAVING".

    THE PROBLEM OF ME BEING A CUSTOMER "NOT WORTH THE TROUBLE OF
    HAVING" IS NO LONGER SOMETHING THAT GIGANEWS NEED TO CONCERN
    THEMSELVES WITH.

    --
     
    thanatoid, May 10, 2006
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. thanatoid

    BoB Guest

    hemorrhoid wrote:
    Dear Giganews:

    snip 1100 odd line rant

    Tell somebody who cares.
     
    BoB, May 10, 2006
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. thanatoid

    Seatoller Guest

    It was on Wed, 10 May 2006 06:26:47 -0500, that Mara wrote:

    > On Wed, 10 May 2006 07:09:59 -0400, BoB <> wrote:
    >
    >>hemorrhoid wrote:
    >>Dear Giganews:
    >>
    >>snip 1100 odd line rant
    >>
    >>Tell somebody who cares.

    >
    > Frankly I'm surprised anyone bothers to read "thanatoid's" posts. The only
    > phrase that comes to mind when I see the nic in replies is "gibbering
    > loon."
    >
    > "Although perhaps "raving troll" might be a better fit."


    Either would suffice, IMHO.

    --
    The short life and hard times of a Linux virus
    http://librenix.com/?inode=21
    Linux vs. Windows Viruses
    http://www.securityfocus.com/columnists/188
     
    Seatoller, May 10, 2006
    #3
  4. Mara rambled on in 24hoursupport.helpdesk:

    > On Wed, 10 May 2006 07:09:59 -0400, BoB <> wrote:
    >
    >>hemorrhoid wrote:
    >>Dear Giganews:
    >>
    >>snip 1100 odd line rant
    >>
    >>Tell somebody who cares.

    >
    > Frankly I'm surprised anyone bothers to read "thanatoid's" posts. The
    > only phrase that comes to mind when I see the nic in replies is
    > "gibbering loon."
    >
    > "Although perhaps "raving troll" might be a better fit."
    >



    I don't bother to read him either. The only time I see any of his shit is
    when somebody quotes him. He's exhibited his BS over in n.s.r (and a few
    other froups) many times.

    --
    The Old Sourdough
    God put me on this Earth to accomplish a certain number of things.
    Right now, I am so far behind I will never die.
     
    The Old Sourdough, May 10, 2006
    #4
  5. thanatoid

    Dr. Memory Guest

    On or around Wed, 10 May 2006 02:48:00 -0500, a clone named Thanatoid
    <> attempted to communicate:

    >Dear Giganews:

    <snip>>
    >Sincerely,
    >Thanatoid


    >... it is WELL WORTH reading.


    Um...no not really.
     
    Dr. Memory, May 10, 2006
    #5
  6. Mara rambled on in 24hoursupport.helpdesk:

    > On Wed, 10 May 2006 06:42:36 -0500, The Old Sourdough
    > <> wrote:
    >
    > <snip>
    >>I don't bother to read him either. The only time I see any of his shit
    >>is when somebody quotes him. He's exhibited his BS over in n.s.r (and
    >>a few other froups) many times.

    >
    > He rather reminds me of Moronis.
    >
    > "Gah."
    >


    Mmmmphhh...

    --
    The Old Sourdough
    If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure. - George W. Bush
     
    The Old Sourdough, May 10, 2006
    #6
  7. thanatoid

    gangle Guest

    "The Old Sourdough" wrote
    > He's exhibited his BS over in n.s.r (and a few
    > other froups) many times.


    n.s.r.?

    Nude Slutty Reamers?
    Necrophiliac Senile Republicans?
    Nauseous Semen Regurgitators?
    Not Seriously Retarded?
    No Such Rumproast?
    Norma Sucked Rodney?

    --
    Ignore The Part With The Words
     
    gangle, May 10, 2006
    #7
  8. thanatoid

    Jimchip Guest

    On 2006-05-10, The Old Sourdough <> wrote:
    > Mara rambled on in 24hoursupport.helpdesk:
    >
    >> On Wed, 10 May 2006 07:09:59 -0400, BoB <> wrote:
    >>
    >>>hemorrhoid wrote:
    >>>Dear Giganews:
    >>>
    >>>snip 1100 odd line rant
    >>>
    >>>Tell somebody who cares.

    >>
    >> Frankly I'm surprised anyone bothers to read "thanatoid's" posts. The
    >> only phrase that comes to mind when I see the nic in replies is
    >> "gibbering loon."
    >>
    >> "Although perhaps "raving troll" might be a better fit."
    >>

    >
    >
    > I don't bother to read him either. The only time I see any of his shit is
    > when somebody quotes him. He's exhibited his BS over in n.s.r (and a few
    > other froups) many times.


    S/h/it claims to have killfiled all the regs in n.s.r. and was posting
    complaints about the group being boring because S/h/it wasn't seeing posts
    :) Although some wouldn't leave that alone, the S/N ratio has gone up.

    --
    Step-by-step the trolls are disappearing from my view
     
    Jimchip, May 10, 2006
    #8
  9. thanatoid

    Ponder Guest

    Ponder, May 10, 2006
    #9
  10. thanatoid

    gangle Guest

    "Ponder" wrote
    > Hiya gangle.
    >
    > In <news:> you wrote:
    >
    > > n.s.r.?

    >
    > It's a secret ;)


    What, just because I am deformed, eat bugs and dirt, and
    keep my penis in cold storage, I don't get let in on the secret?
    It's blatant discrimination. I'm gonna sue Old Sourdough
    (because he's so fucking senile, he just might pay up).
     
    gangle, May 10, 2006
    #10
  11. BoB skrev:
    > hemorrhoid wrote:
    > Dear Giganews:
    >
    > snip 1100 odd line rant
    >
    > Tell somebody who cares.

    I can't see the original message here? Only on google...
     
    Roger Jansson, May 10, 2006
    #11
  12. thanatoid

    Ponder Guest

    Hiya gangle.

    In <news:> you wrote:

    >>> n.s.r.?

    >> It's a secret ;)

    > What, just because I am deformed, eat bugs and dirt, and
    > keep my penis in cold storage, I don't get let in on the secret?
    > It's blatant discrimination. I'm gonna sue Old Sourdough
    > (because he's so fucking senile, he just might pay up).


    I'm sure if you had a quick look for his nym in google groups you'd find
    out :)

    --
    PGP key ID - DSS:0x2661A952
    Ponder - Homepage: http://www.colinjones.co.uk ICQ# 1707811
    Skittles Team: http://www.ddskittles.co.uk
     
    Ponder, May 10, 2006
    #12
  13. Roger Jansson rambled on in 24hoursupport.helpdesk:

    > BoB skrev:
    >> hemorrhoid wrote:
    >> Dear Giganews:
    >>
    >> snip 1100 odd line rant
    >>
    >> Tell somebody who cares.

    > I can't see the original message here? Only on google...
    >


    Consider yourself fortunate.

    --
    The Old Sourdough
    To the optimist, the glass is half full.
    To the pessimist, the glass is half empty.
    To the engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.
     
    The Old Sourdough, May 10, 2006
    #13
  14. gangle rambled on in 24hoursupport.helpdesk:

    > "Ponder" wrote
    >> Hiya gangle.
    >>
    >> In <news:> you wrote:
    >>
    >> > n.s.r.?

    >>
    >> It's a secret ;)

    >
    > What, just because I am deformed, eat bugs and dirt, and
    > keep my penis in cold storage, I don't get let in on the secret?
    > It's blatant discrimination. I'm gonna sue Old Sourdough
    > (because he's so fucking senile, he just might pay up).
    >
    >


    Oh, boy!! Lawsoot! Lawsoot!

    --
    The Old Sourdough
    A good wife always forgives her husband when she's wrong. - Milton Berle
     
    The Old Sourdough, May 10, 2006
    #14
  15. thanatoid

    thanatoid Guest

    Hey there,

    for a group even fuller of narrow-minded pseudo-intellectual geeks, try
    n.s.r., or news.software.readers.

    I use and like Xnews and have visited there occasionally to see whether
    I could learn anything new. There is a recurring problem with XNews and
    RAM to which I have posted some replies, since in spite of my 8½ year
    old machine, I don't have the problem.

    Since I made the mistake of mentioning I use a 1997 model computer with
    Win95B and 64MB RAM for internet (which is apparently enough to be
    branded a troll for life, and to be blacklisted and abused forever), I
    was violently flamed by the "regulars", but played along until I got
    bored. (I don't have much to do.)

    In the end I HAVE KF'd all of them, which made the group a LOT more
    pleasant to read, but a lot more boring. (Fortunately, there are other
    groups.) The fact that just because THEY don't REALLY KF anyone doesn't
    mean everyone else is that lame. Still, it gave them something else to
    chew on.

    Anyway, if you want to read some REALLY stupid threads, you're welcome
    to look it up in that group...

    (It is QUITE unfortunate that this "help" group seems to consist of
    mostly similar people - not to mention many of those who frequent both
    and who I no longer see...)

    Regards,
    t.
     
    thanatoid, May 11, 2006
    #15
  16. thanatoid

    Mike Easter Guest

    thanatoid wrote:

    > Since I made the mistake of mentioning I use a 1997 model computer
    > with Win95B and 64MB RAM for internet


    You would be better off with W98se, for which 64 megs of ram and any cpu
    which is matched up with that kind of mobo would be fine, or, if you
    needed to be a little sleeker you could dump the 98 Windows explorer in
    favor of the lighter W95 explorer a la what used to be 98lite and is now
    litepc and is still free. http://www.litepc.com/download.html Unless
    you didn't happen to have a copy of W98se, which is another matter.

    I've run the lite 98 with the 95 explorer on some really old mobos.
    98lite is the lightest weight graphical user interface with reasonable
    capabilities, including compared to any of the linux distros, which
    start getting really fat and bloated when you want graphical interface
    with them.

    I would use Opera for my browser to stay both lean and browser competent
    for modern webpages.

    I read your OP, as I was surprised to find a negative commentary on
    giganews.


    --
    Mike Easter
     
    Mike Easter, May 11, 2006
    #16
  17. thanatoid

    thanatoid Guest

    Mike Easter wrote:
    > thanatoid wrote:
    >
    > > Since I made the mistake of mentioning I use a 1997 model computer
    > > with Win95B and 64MB RAM for internet

    >
    > You would be better off with W98se, for which 64 megs of ram and any cpu
    > which is matched up with that kind of mobo would be fine, or, if you
    > needed to be a little sleeker you could dump the 98 Windows explorer in
    > favor of the lighter W95 explorer a la what used to be 98lite and is now
    > litepc and is still free. http://www.litepc.com/download.html Unless
    > you didn't happen to have a copy of W98se, which is another matter.


    Hi Mike

    Thank you for a very nice and helpful post. Amazing to see my
    mentioning Win95B does not >>automatically<< cause insults and abuse
    every single time.

    I tried to upgrade this machine to W98SE lite a few years ago just to
    get USB working. It didn't work, so I went back to 95B. It has a lot of
    tweaks and some 98 components, and works just fine. I use Opera when I
    need to acces java/flash sites (like a bank) and I use OffByOne 99% of
    the time because I think it's the greatest browser ever written.

    I have since bought a used 2GHz P4 system on which I run W98SE Lite and
    it's just great. But it's for music editing etc and it's not even
    connected to the internet.

    > I've run the lite 98 with the 95 explorer on some really old mobos.
    > 98lite is the lightest weight graphical user interface with reasonable
    > capabilities, including compared to any of the linux distros, which
    > start getting really fat and bloated when you want graphical interface
    > with them.


    I know nothing about Linux, which is also apparently a major crime,
    especially in help groups. I've used Windows for over 15 years and
    while it took time, I finally got it to work just right. Needless to
    say, the OS's are the only MS software on the machines. ;-)
    And I'm just too old to start from scratch with Linux just to be cool.

    > I read your OP, as I was surprised to find a negative commentary on
    > giganews.
    > --
    > Mike Easter


    I was surprised that I would feel compelled to write what I did, but I
    had simply had enough. You read the reasons.

    Since you appear to be a true rarity, especially in a help group, a
    polite and helpful person, I wonder whether you have any comments on my
    long "GG" post. I imagine you have seen the type of replies it has
    generated so far - in this group, anyway.

    BTW, I have since realized that GN's biggest claim to "quality",
    retention, is nothing but a selling tactic. Newbies think that they
    need over 2 months of binary retention without realizing that most of
    it is just crap, nor do they realize everything has been posted and
    reposted dozens of times and will be reposted forever. And once they
    become customers, they get treated just like everyone else.

    Regards,
    t.
     
    thanatoid, May 12, 2006
    #17
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