Good results with Oly 4/3rds compared to Canon EF lenses?

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Paul D. Sullivan, Jan 26, 2007.

  1. I've been looking at some of the work some buds have been doing
    with their cameras. One has a Canon and uses the same lenses on
    his digicam that he used on his 35mm fim cam. Another has an
    Olympus setup with the dedicated 4/3rds digital-only lens setup.

    In visually comparing them side by side, it seems like the
    Olympus setup is more "precise" and consistent edge to edge vs
    the Canon.

    I'm wondering if others are seeing this too, and if so, is it
    because the Oly lenses are specifically tailored for their CCD
    while the Canon was not designed to optimize the lens to their
    CCD.

    I'd appreciate any helpful discussion or input. I'm not sure
    which way to commit when it comes to getting a DSLR, and I'd like
    to have as much good info and opinion as possible.

    Thanks
    Paul D. Sullivan, Jan 26, 2007
    #1
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  2. Paul D. Sullivan

    Mark² Guest

    Paul D. Sullivan wrote:
    > I've been looking at some of the work some buds have been doing
    > with their cameras. One has a Canon and uses the same lenses on
    > his digicam that he used on his 35mm fim cam. Another has an
    > Olympus setup with the dedicated 4/3rds digital-only lens setup.


    >
    > In visually comparing them side by side, it seems like the
    > Olympus setup is more "precise" and consistent edge to edge vs
    > the Canon.


    Edge to edge...what?

    > I'm wondering if others are seeing this too, and if so, is it
    > because the Oly lenses are specifically tailored for their CCD
    > while the Canon was not designed to optimize the lens to their
    > CCD.
    >
    > I'd appreciate any helpful discussion or input. I'm not sure
    > which way to commit when it comes to getting a DSLR, and I'd like
    > to have as much good info and opinion as possible.


    There are SO many possible variables to the technique they may have used,
    that this particular comparison you refer to is impossible to speculate
    about without a lot more information.
    --
    Images (Plus Snaps & Grabs) by Mark² at:
    www.pbase.com/markuson
    Mark², Jan 26, 2007
    #2
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  3. >> In visually comparing them side by side, it seems like the
    >> Olympus setup is more "precise" and consistent edge to edge vs
    >> the Canon.

    >
    > Edge to edge...what?


    The finished digital image.
    Paul D. Sullivan, Jan 26, 2007
    #3
  4. Paul D. Sullivan

    Mark² Guest

    Paul D. Sullivan wrote:
    >>> In visually comparing them side by side, it seems like the
    >>> Olympus setup is more "precise" and consistent edge to edge vs
    >>> the Canon.

    >>
    >> Edge to edge...what?

    >
    > The finished digital image.


    I should have asked, "consistently" what?
    Focussed?
    Colored?
    Toned?
    Noisy?

    I'm not sure what it is you observed.

    --
    Images (Plus Snaps & Grabs) by Mark² at:
    www.pbase.com/markuson
    Mark², Jan 26, 2007
    #4
  5. Paul D. Sullivan

    Doug Robbins Guest

    The Oly lenses are optimized for the 4/3 sensor. Plus the Canon kit lens
    isn't one of their better efforts. I'm sure in image quality of the Canon
    DSLRs improves with some better Canon glass on it.

    "Paul D. Sullivan" <> wrote in message
    news:Rhcuh.8494$qN1.18@trndny02...
    > I've been looking at some of the work some buds have been doing with their
    > cameras. One has a Canon and uses the same lenses on his digicam that he
    > used on his 35mm fim cam. Another has an Olympus setup with the dedicated
    > 4/3rds digital-only lens setup.
    >
    > In visually comparing them side by side, it seems like the Olympus setup
    > is more "precise" and consistent edge to edge vs the Canon.
    >
    > I'm wondering if others are seeing this too, and if so, is it because the
    > Oly lenses are specifically tailored for their CCD while the Canon was not
    > designed to optimize the lens to their CCD.
    >
    > I'd appreciate any helpful discussion or input. I'm not sure which way to
    > commit when it comes to getting a DSLR, and I'd like to have as much good
    > info and opinion as possible.
    >
    > Thanks
    >
    >
    Doug Robbins, Jan 26, 2007
    #5
  6. Do all canon bodies that can accept those film lenses contain
    CCD's that are the same size and in the same position?

    Thanks for the reply.

    > The Oly lenses are optimized for the 4/3 sensor. Plus the
    > Canon kit lens isn't one of their better efforts. I'm sure in
    > image quality of the Canon DSLRs improves with some better
    > Canon glass on it.
    > "Paul D. Sullivan" <> wrote in message
    > news:Rhcuh.8494$qN1.18@trndny02...
    >> I've been looking at some of the work some buds have been
    >> doing with their cameras. One has a Canon and uses the same
    >> lenses on his digicam that he used on his 35mm fim cam.
    >> Another has an Olympus setup with the dedicated 4/3rds
    >> digital-only lens setup. In visually comparing them side by
    >> side, it seems like the
    >> Olympus setup is more "precise" and consistent edge to edge
    >> vs the Canon. I'm wondering if others are seeing this too, and
    >> if so, is it
    >> because the Oly lenses are specifically tailored for their
    >> CCD while the Canon was not designed to optimize the lens to
    >> their CCD. I'd appreciate any helpful discussion or input.
    >> I'm not sure
    >> which way to commit when it comes to getting a DSLR, and I'd
    >> like to have as much good info and opinion as possible.
    >>
    >> Thanks
    Paul D. Sullivan, Jan 26, 2007
    #6
  7. "Paul D. Sullivan" <> wrote:
    > Do all canon bodies that can accept those film lenses contain CCD's that
    > are the same size and in the same position?


    No. Canon dSLRs use Canon-manufactured _CMOS_ sensors in one of three sizes:
    24 x 36 mm ("FF" or "full frame"), 19.1 x 28.7 mm ("1.3x"), and 15.1 x 22.7
    mm ("1.6x").

    People who have worked with film in a variety of formats (sizes) realize
    that larger formats offer a tradeoff: it's harder to create good images with
    a larger format camera, but when you do get a good image, you get a much
    better image than a smaller format camera would have acquired.

    IMHO, the same is true in digital. Maybe it's easier to shoot with a 50/2.0
    lens on a 4/3 camera, but the 5D with a 100/2.0 (a larger more expensive
    lens) will produce better images when you put in the extra effort.

    David J. Littleboy
    Tokyo, Japan
    David J. Littleboy, Jan 26, 2007
    #7
  8. Paul D. Sullivan

    Don B Guest

    On Jan 26, 5:09 pm, "David J. Littleboy" <> wrote:
    > "Paul D. Sullivan" <> wrote:
    >
    > > Do all canon bodies that can accept those film lenses contain CCD's that
    > > are the same size and in the same position?No. Canon dSLRs use Canon-manufactured _CMOS_ sensors in one of three sizes:

    > 24 x 36 mm ("FF" or "full frame"), 19.1 x 28.7 mm ("1.3x"), and 15.1 x 22.7
    > mm ("1.6x").
    >
    > People who have worked with film in a variety of formats (sizes) realize
    > that larger formats offer a tradeoff: it's harder to create good images with
    > a larger format camera, but when you do get a good image, you get a much
    > better image than a smaller format camera would have acquired.
    >
    > IMHO, the same is true in digital. Maybe it's easier to shoot with a 50/2.0
    > lens on a 4/3 camera, but the 5D with a 100/2.0 (a larger more expensive
    > lens) will produce better images when you put in the extra effort.
    >
    > David J. Littleboy
    > Tokyo, Japan

    You have examples to support your 'theory', like the original poster?
    Don
    Don B, Jan 26, 2007
    #8
  9. Paul D. Sullivan

    Alfred Molon Guest

    In article <qFcuh.1786$>, says...

    > >>> In visually comparing them side by side, it seems like the
    > >>> Olympus setup is more "precise" and consistent edge to edge vs
    > >>> the Canon.
    > >>
    > >> Edge to edge...what?

    > >
    > > The finished digital image.

    >
    > I should have asked, "consistently" what?
    > Focussed?
    > Colored?
    > Toned?
    > Noisy?


    Obviously focused - he is talking about lenses. Lenses have no impact on
    noise or colours.
    --

    Alfred Molon
    ------------------------------
    Olympus 50X0, 7070, 8080, E300, E330, E400 and E500 forum at
    http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
    Olympus E330 resource - http://myolympus.org/E330/
    Alfred Molon, Jan 26, 2007
    #9
  10. Paul D. Sullivan

    Joan Guest

    Joan, Jan 26, 2007
    #10
  11. "Don B" <> wrote:
    > On Jan 26, 5:09 pm, "David J. Littleboy" <> wrote:
    >> "Paul D. Sullivan" <> wrote:
    >>
    >> > Do all canon bodies that can accept those film lenses contain CCD's
    >> > that
    >> > are the same size and in the same position?No. Canon dSLRs use
    >> > Canon-manufactured _CMOS_ sensors in one of three sizes:

    >> 24 x 36 mm ("FF" or "full frame"), 19.1 x 28.7 mm ("1.3x"), and 15.1 x
    >> 22.7
    >> mm ("1.6x").
    >>
    >> People who have worked with film in a variety of formats (sizes) realize
    >> that larger formats offer a tradeoff: it's harder to create good images
    >> with
    >> a larger format camera, but when you do get a good image, you get a much
    >> better image than a smaller format camera would have acquired.
    >>
    >> IMHO, the same is true in digital. Maybe it's easier to shoot with a
    >> 50/2.0
    >> lens on a 4/3 camera, but the 5D with a 100/2.0 (a larger more expensive
    >> lens) will produce better images when you put in the extra effort.
    >>
    >> David J. Littleboy
    >> Tokyo, Japan

    > You have examples to support your 'theory', like the original poster?


    You could look at the samples from both cameras at dpreview and decide for
    yourself.

    David J. Littleboy
    Tokyo, Japan
    David J. Littleboy, Jan 26, 2007
    #11
  12. Paul D. Sullivan wrote:
    > I've been looking at some of the work some buds have been doing
    > with their cameras. One has a Canon and uses the same lenses on
    > his digicam that he used on his 35mm fim cam. Another has an
    > Olympus setup with the dedicated 4/3rds digital-only lens setup.
    >
    > In visually comparing them side by side, it seems like the
    > Olympus setup is more "precise" and consistent edge to edge vs
    > the Canon.
    >
    > I'm wondering if others are seeing this too, and if so, is it
    > because the Oly lenses are specifically tailored for their CCD
    > while the Canon was not designed to optimize the lens to their
    > CCD.
    >
    > I'd appreciate any helpful discussion or input. I'm not sure
    > which way to commit when it comes to getting a DSLR, and I'd like
    > to have as much good info and opinion as possible.
    >
    > Thanks


    When the sensor and lens are designed as a pair, you can get better
    results.

    Many of the other DSLRs are simply 35mm camera designs recycled with
    modifications using lenses which were not optimised for the job. Olympus
    (and the 4/3 system in general) were designed from scratch with the
    special needs of silicon sensors in mind.

    Having said that, image quality may not be the only factor in choosing an
    SLR - camera handling and the breadth of the system components may matter,
    not to mention cost.

    David
    David J Taylor, Jan 26, 2007
    #12
  13. Paul D. Sullivan

    Skip Guest

    "Alfred Molon" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > In article <qFcuh.1786$>, says...
    >
    >> >>> In visually comparing them side by side, it seems like the
    >> >>> Olympus setup is more "precise" and consistent edge to edge vs
    >> >>> the Canon.
    >> >>
    >> >> Edge to edge...what?
    >> >
    >> > The finished digital image.

    >>
    >> I should have asked, "consistently" what?
    >> Focussed?
    >> Colored?
    >> Toned?
    >> Noisy?

    >
    > Obviously focused - he is talking about lenses. Lenses have no impact on
    > noise or colours.
    > --
    >
    > Alfred Molon


    Agree with noise, but lenses certainly have an effect on color. But I'd
    guess that Mark's point is to know what the problems were with the images to
    ascertain whether the camera, lens or operator were at the root of the
    problem.

    --
    Skip Middleton
    www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
    www.pbase.com/skipm
    Skip, Jan 26, 2007
    #13
  14. Paul D. Sullivan

    Skip Guest

    "Paul D. Sullivan" <> wrote in message
    news:%tcuh.9606$dk1.8766@trndny03...
    >>> In visually comparing them side by side, it seems like the
    >>> Olympus setup is more "precise" and consistent edge to edge vs
    >>> the Canon.

    >>
    >> Edge to edge...what?

    >
    > The finished digital image.
    >

    If you are talking about cropped, finished images, I'd have to say, in this
    case, and without seeing examples, that the fault lies with the operator.
    Oly has a stellar reputation for glass, Canon's best lenses are among the
    best in the world. Since you don't say what lenses were being used, or even
    what cameras, only brands, it is impossible to answer your question with any
    accuracy.

    --
    Skip Middleton
    www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
    www.pbase.com/skipm
    Skip, Jan 26, 2007
    #14
  15. >>> Edge to edge...what?
    >>
    >> The finished digital image.
    >>

    > If you are talking about cropped, finished images, I'd have to
    > say, in this case, and without seeing examples, that the fault
    > lies with the operator. Oly has a stellar reputation for
    > glass, Canon's best lenses are among the best in the world.
    > Since you don't say what lenses were being used, or even what
    > cameras, only brands, it is impossible to answer your question
    > with any accuracy.


    I'm talking about UNCROPPED digital images initially produced by
    the cameras without ANY editing being done.
    Paul D. Sullivan, Jan 26, 2007
    #15
  16. Paul D. Sullivan

    Mark² Guest

    Alfred Molon wrote:
    > In article <qFcuh.1786$>, says...
    >
    >>>>> In visually comparing them side by side, it seems like the
    >>>>> Olympus setup is more "precise" and consistent edge to edge vs
    >>>>> the Canon.
    >>>>
    >>>> Edge to edge...what?
    >>>
    >>> The finished digital image.

    >>
    >> I should have asked, "consistently" what?
    >> Focussed?
    >> Colored?
    >> Toned?
    >> Noisy?

    >
    > Obviously focused - he is talking about lenses. Lenses have no impact
    > on noise or colours.


    Maybe that would seem obvious to you or me, but his description is so vague
    that I wonder what he's really seeing that gives him this impression of
    "better."

    --
    Images (Plus Snaps & Grabs) by Mark² at:
    www.pbase.com/markuson
    Mark², Jan 26, 2007
    #16
  17. Paul D. Sullivan

    Guest

    On Jan 26, 5:26 am, "David J Taylor"
    <-this-bit.nor-this-part.uk> wrote:
    > When the sensor and lens are designed as a pair, you can get better
    > results.
    >
    > Many of the other DSLRs are simply 35mm camera designs recycled with
    > modifications using lenses which were not optimised for the job. Olympus
    > (and the 4/3 system in general) were designed from scratch with the
    > special needs of silicon sensors in mind.


    Since we're talking generalities, I've read that the older 35mm lenses
    (in general) work very well on the smaller/newer sensors. Since you're
    "cropping" down the image circle, you're getting the sharpest part of
    the image. Most (all?) lenses are sharpest in the centre, and suffer
    various degrees/types of distortion at the edges. So (in general),
    lenses designed for 35mm film are going to be sharper than lenses
    designed for smaller sensor, and suffer from less distortion at the
    edge. I certainly see this when comparing my Nikon 18-70DX (an
    excellent "digital" lens) vs a nearly 20-year-old 50mm 1.8.

    Is this impression wrong? In what ways would a "digital" lens be "more
    suited" to a sensor than a lens designed for 35mm?

    Drew
    , Jan 26, 2007
    #17
  18. wrote:
    > On Jan 26, 5:26 am, "David J Taylor"
    > <-this-bit.nor-this-part.uk> wrote:
    >> When the sensor and lens are designed as a pair, you can get better
    >> results.
    >>
    >> Many of the other DSLRs are simply 35mm camera designs recycled with
    >> modifications using lenses which were not optimised for the job.
    >> Olympus (and the 4/3 system in general) were designed from scratch
    >> with the special needs of silicon sensors in mind.

    >
    > Since we're talking generalities, I've read that the older 35mm lenses
    > (in general) work very well on the smaller/newer sensors. Since
    > you're "cropping" down the image circle, you're getting the sharpest
    > part of the image. Most (all?) lenses are sharpest in the centre,
    > and suffer various degrees/types of distortion at the edges. So (in
    > general), lenses designed for 35mm film are going to be sharper than
    > lenses designed for smaller sensor, and suffer from less distortion
    > at the edge. I certainly see this when comparing my Nikon 18-70DX (an
    > excellent "digital" lens) vs a nearly 20-year-old 50mm 1.8.
    >
    > Is this impression wrong? In what ways would a "digital" lens be
    > "more suited" to a sensor than a lens designed for 35mm?
    >
    > Drew


    When talking about 35mm lenses used on sub-35mm sensors you are generally
    correct, although there is a greater magnification from sensor to print
    size if the sensor is sub-35mm, so lens defects /could/ be more visible.

    DX lenses are simply lenses optimised to work over the smaller image
    circle that a cropped 35mm sensor requires. Reduces price and perhaps
    size and weight. More cost-effective.

    On the other hand, the 4/3-system lenses are designed to make the light
    incident at an angle nearer to 90 degrees than is possible with revamped
    35mm SLR designs, and typical silicon sensors react worse to off-axis
    light than does 35mm film. So it is entirely possible that the
    performance is better, particularly near the edges of the image.

    David
    David J Taylor, Jan 26, 2007
    #18
  19. Paul D. Sullivan

    Bill Funk Guest

    On Fri, 26 Jan 2007 13:04:17 GMT, "Paul D. Sullivan"
    <> wrote:

    >>>> Edge to edge...what?
    >>>
    >>> The finished digital image.
    >>>

    >> If you are talking about cropped, finished images, I'd have to
    >> say, in this case, and without seeing examples, that the fault
    >> lies with the operator. Oly has a stellar reputation for
    >> glass, Canon's best lenses are among the best in the world.
    >> Since you don't say what lenses were being used, or even what
    >> cameras, only brands, it is impossible to answer your question
    >> with any accuracy.

    >
    >I'm talking about UNCROPPED digital images initially produced by
    >the cameras without ANY editing being done.
    >

    Again, what camera models, what lenses, and what, exactly, are you
    comparing in the images?

    --
    California's Assembly prepared
    Monday to move the state's
    primary up to February. An early
    California primary has unique
    advantages. It gives each candidate
    the chance to spend all their money
    to finish third behind Gary Coleman
    and a porn star.
    Bill Funk, Jan 26, 2007
    #19
  20. Joan wrote:
    > What about CA?
    >


    What about posting as adults with some consideration for others do?

    --
    lsmft
    John McWilliams, Jan 26, 2007
    #20
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