Good midrange AM2+ mobo?

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by ~misfit~, Jun 20, 2008.

  1. ~misfit~

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Hey,

    I'm Intel all the way at the moment. However, a friend bought a built-up
    'gaming machine' (I've mentioned it before here, it's been nothing but
    trouble) using an Asus M3A motherboard, a Phenom 9500 CPU, 1x2GB DDR2 module
    and a 9600GT.

    The machine's abeen a nightmare. Firstly it was supplied with a PSU that was
    barely capable of 300W. I replaced it with a reasonable 510W PSU,
    reinstalled Windows (don't ask!), updated the BIOS and it seemed alright for
    a while. I showed him how to raise vcore if it kept crashing.

    Well, yesterday he rang me and asked about a replacement mobo. He's raised
    vcore all the way (!) in BIOS, 1.550V and it's still crashing. I expressed
    concern at the high voltage but he assured me that the two hardware
    monitoring apps I'd given him, HWMonitor and CPU-Z both say that the vcore
    is only 1.2xxV when in Windows. I also got him to raise VDIMM to (at the
    moment) 2.05V. He doesn't have another stick of DDR2 to try and I only have
    what's in this machine and I'm loathe to mess with it. My luck hasn't been
    great of late. :-/

    I've been sick so I advised him to get a single 1GB stick of DDR2 - 800 and
    try that alone. However, if that doesn't waork he wants me to advise on a
    good mobo. I like Asus personally (followed by Gigabyte) but the vanilla M3A
    model that he has, going by Googling, seems to have been a lemon. As I
    mentioned, I'm not au fait with current AMD boards or chipsets so a
    suggestion or two would be nice. :) He'll pay between $200 and $300. Also,
    he's siad that this is the last time he ever buys a PC on impulse. I've
    built the last two machines for him and they've been trouble-free. He's
    rather surprised that a PC can be this much trouble, LOL.

    Another thing, I've heard that the first Phenoms, the 9x00 range, were
    'flaky', that the 9x50 are much better. However, surely they're not *that*
    bad that he needs to replace his CPU?

    All input appreciated. He's desperate and is going to be calling me soon.
    I'll look around but anyone with a positive experience with an AM2+ mobo
    that they want to share would be great. Also, any comments on the above;
    RAM? CPU?

    The clowns that threw this machine together were, IMO, getting rid of
    troublesome or slow-moving stock. The PSU was a lemon, the mobo won't work
    with LAN drivers off the supplied CD, nobody's buying the 9x00 Phenoms now
    the 9x50 ones are around... These guys are that incompetent that they didn't
    remove the jumper from the Seagate 500Gb 7200.11 HDD that limits it to SATA
    I speed.

    Anyway, I digress. Suggestions appreciated.

    TIA,
    --
    Shaun.

    DISCLAIMER: If you find a posting or message from me
    offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it.
    If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
    me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... ;-)
     
    ~misfit~, Jun 20, 2008
    #1
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  2. ~misfit~

    impossible Guest

    "~misfit~" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hey,
    >
    > I'm Intel all the way at the moment. However, a friend bought a built-up
    > 'gaming machine' (I've mentioned it before here, it's been nothing but
    > trouble) using an Asus M3A motherboard, a Phenom 9500 CPU, 1x2GB DDR2
    > module and a 9600GT.
    >
    > The machine's abeen a nightmare. Firstly it was supplied with a PSU that
    > was barely capable of 300W. I replaced it with a reasonable 510W PSU,
    > reinstalled Windows (don't ask!), updated the BIOS and it seemed alright
    > for a while. I showed him how to raise vcore if it kept crashing.
    >
    > Well, yesterday he rang me and asked about a replacement mobo. He's raised
    > vcore all the way (!) in BIOS, 1.550V and it's still crashing. I expressed
    > concern at the high voltage but he assured me that the two hardware
    > monitoring apps I'd given him, HWMonitor and CPU-Z both say that the vcore
    > is only 1.2xxV when in Windows. I also got him to raise VDIMM to (at the
    > moment) 2.05V. He doesn't have another stick of DDR2 to try and I only
    > have what's in this machine and I'm loathe to mess with it. My luck hasn't
    > been great of late. :-/
    >
    > I've been sick so I advised him to get a single 1GB stick of DDR2 - 800
    > and try that alone. However, if that doesn't waork he wants me to advise
    > on a good mobo. I like Asus personally (followed by Gigabyte) but the
    > vanilla M3A model that he has, going by Googling, seems to have been a
    > lemon. As I mentioned, I'm not au fait with current AMD boards or chipsets
    > so a suggestion or two would be nice. :) He'll pay between $200 and $300.
    > Also, he's siad that this is the last time he ever buys a PC on impulse.
    > I've built the last two machines for him and they've been trouble-free.
    > He's rather surprised that a PC can be this much trouble, LOL.
    >
    > Another thing, I've heard that the first Phenoms, the 9x00 range, were
    > 'flaky', that the 9x50 are much better. However, surely they're not *that*
    > bad that he needs to replace his CPU?
    >
    > All input appreciated. He's desperate and is going to be calling me soon.
    > I'll look around but anyone with a positive experience with an AM2+ mobo
    > that they want to share would be great. Also, any comments on the above;
    > RAM? CPU?
    >
    > The clowns that threw this machine together were, IMO, getting rid of
    > troublesome or slow-moving stock. The PSU was a lemon, the mobo won't work
    > with LAN drivers off the supplied CD, nobody's buying the 9x00 Phenoms now
    > the 9x50 ones are around... These guys are that incompetent that they
    > didn't remove the jumper from the Seagate 500Gb 7200.11 HDD that limits it
    > to SATA I speed.
    >
    > Anyway, I digress. Suggestions appreciated.
    >



    (1) RTFM
    (2) Don't over-clock until you have a stable machine -- then, don't
    over-clock unless you know what you're doing.
    (3) Update all drivers from the manufacturer's site.

    ....and then you will...

    (4) Stop habitually throwing away perfectly good power supplies and
    motherboards.
     
    impossible, Jun 20, 2008
    #2
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  3. ~misfit~

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Somewhere on teh intarweb "thingy" typed:
    > ~misfit~ wrote:
    >> Hey,
    >>
    >> I'm Intel all the way at the moment. However, a friend bought a
    >> built-up 'gaming machine' (I've mentioned it before here, it's been
    >> nothing but trouble) using an Asus M3A motherboard, a Phenom 9500
    >> CPU, 1x2GB DDR2 module and a 9600GT.

    >
    > That is a pretty good spec on paper....I would be very happy with
    > something that good.


    Yeah, on paper. IRL both the vanilla M3A and the Phenom 9x00 series are
    troublesome.

    > :/
    >
    >> The machine's abeen a nightmare. Firstly it was supplied with a PSU
    >> that was barely capable of 300W. I replaced it with a reasonable
    >> 510W PSU, reinstalled Windows (don't ask!), updated the BIOS and it
    >> seemed alright for a while. I showed him how to raise vcore if it
    >> kept crashing. Well, yesterday he rang me and asked about a replacement
    >> mobo. He's
    >> raised vcore all the way (!) in BIOS, 1.550V and it's still crashing.

    >
    > he's mad, well stupid.


    To be honest, he was only following my instructions. I told him that, as
    long as CPU-Z didn't go over 1.35V that he could keep ratcheting the BIOS
    setting up. I know from personal experience that, with some mobos, BIOS
    vcore and actual vcore can be very different.

    With a couple BIOS revisions with my P5K-E the BIOS was saying 0.12V higher
    than the actual vcore, and that's with an 8-phase VRM. I'm not sure what his
    board has but there's nowhere near the amount of inductors and MOSFETs
    around the socket as mine has. In recent times the term "Vdroop" has become
    quite common as motherboard are asked to power CPUs that require a lot of
    power at low vcore.

    Check out this Asus page:
    <http://www.asus.com/products.aspx?modelmenu=2&model=1934&l1=3&l2=149&l3=592&l4=0>

    See under "CPU" is says "*Supports CPU up to 95W"? I'm sure that wasn't
    there last time I looked at that page. Also, it's written in a bigger font
    than the rest of the specifications. It doesn't say "Supports CPU up to and
    including 95W" or even "Supports 95W CPU". The Phenom 9500 is 95W stock.
    Methinks something is amiss.

    Oh, BTW, he's not overclocking, he's just trying to get it to run stably at
    stock speed, has been for a couple months now.

    >> I expressed
    >> concern at the high voltage but he assured me that the two hardware
    >> monitoring apps I'd given him, HWMonitor and CPU-Z both say that the
    >> vcore is only 1.2xxV when in Windows. I also got him to raise VDIMM
    >> to (at the moment) 2.05V. He doesn't have another stick of DDR2 to
    >> try and I only have what's in this machine and I'm loathe to mess
    >> with it. My luck hasn't been great of late. :-/
    >>
    >> I've been sick so I advised him to get a single 1GB stick of DDR2 -
    >> 800 and try that alone. However, if that doesn't waork he wants me
    >> to advise on a good mobo. I like Asus personally (followed by
    >> Gigabyte) but the vanilla M3A model that he has, going by Googling,
    >> seems to have been a lemon. As I mentioned, I'm not au fait with
    >> current AMD boards or chipsets so a suggestion or two would be nice.
    >> :) He'll pay between $200 and $300. Also, he's siad that this is
    >> the last time he ever buys a PC on impulse. I've built the last two
    >> machines for him and they've been trouble-free. He's rather
    >> surprised that a PC can be this much trouble, LOL. Another thing, I've
    >> heard that the first Phenoms, the 9x00 range,
    >> were 'flaky', that the 9x50 are much better. However, surely they're
    >> not *that* bad that he needs to replace his CPU?
    >>
    >> All input appreciated. He's desperate and is going to be calling me
    >> soon. I'll look around but anyone with a positive experience with an
    >> AM2+ mobo that they want to share would be great. Also, any comments
    >> on the above; RAM? CPU?
    >>
    >> The clowns that threw this machine together were, IMO, getting rid of
    >> troublesome or slow-moving stock. The PSU was a lemon, the mobo
    >> won't work with LAN drivers off the supplied CD, nobody's buying the
    >> 9x00 Phenoms now the 9x50 ones are around... These guys are that
    >> incompetent that they didn't remove the jumper from the Seagate
    >> 500Gb 7200.11 HDD that limits it to SATA I speed.
    >>
    >> Anyway, I digress. Suggestions appreciated.
    >>
    >> TIA,

    >
    > I agree on Asus and Gigabyte....it would take me a lot to move from
    > buying one of these....


    Yup, both are pretty reliable. Both have been known to put out the odd lemon
    but, all in all, they're generally a fair bet.

    > There seems to be a bit of a jump from $200 to $400....nothing much
    > good around $300....


    Hmmm, yeah.

    > For $209...this is the board I am probably going to buy when I have
    > the $.
    > http://www.pp.co.nz/products.php?pp_id=AA05908
    >
    > ASUS M3A-H/HDMI - Motherboard - ATX - AMD 780G - Socket AM2+ - UDMA133
    >
    > But that's the M3A series he has now...


    Yeah. However, it has a different chipset, solid capacitors and doesn't have
    the dreaded "*Supports CPU up to 95W" in it's specs. In fact it has
    "*Supports CPU up to 125W" instead, only in smaller print, the same size as
    the rest of the specs.

    <http://www.asus.com/products.aspx?modelmenu=2&model=2129&l1=3&l2=149&l3=639&l4=0>

    It could be a good otion for him, except he doesn't want on-board graphics,
    he's a gamer.

    > To overclock with....you probably need a $300+ board to stand a
    > chance, even then I would not, not with AMD anyway.


    Agreed. I wouldn't OC an AMD either, the very best you can expect is ~120%,
    not worth the hassle.

    > AMD CPUs are not the ones to get if overclocking they seem very
    > limited from what I can read....AMD just does not go up much.....its
    > strength is bang for the $.


    Aye.

    > http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/system-builder-marathon,1798-2.html
    >
    > If he is going to go to the cost of an expensive board then I'd
    > suggest an Intel CPU and go looking for a CPU with the biggest
    > overclock potential for the least $....but that's looking at $600+ A
    > Q6600 or something....TX2 cooler...that ASUS P3E/K board we have?
    > seems a good board for that....I'm annoyed I had to put in in my
    > server, I was drooling over an overclocked Q6600...
    >
    > :(


    Hehee! It seems that we're in total agreement over the current state of
    hardware. Either great minds... Or we're both reading the reviews. ;-)

    > Aiming for a 8800GT for my birthday....maybe a 2x6400 to go with
    > it....keep me going until the new year...


    Yeah, 8800GTs are getting chaeper by the minute. If I hadn't just given the
    flatmate notice and paid a few bills I'd be tempted.

    > "Concerned" about what you are saying about this guy
    > over-clocking....some people you just dont show things to as they will
    > f*ck it up and blame you for their stupidity.


    My bad. I should have made it clear that he's not overclocking. He's just
    trying to get it to work as it should. He's pretty good at following
    instruction, I told him "no way" when he mentioned overclocking and he's
    ahppy with that. If only we could get the damn system to run!

    Cheers,
    --
    Shaun.

    DISCLAIMER: If you find a posting or message from me
    offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it.
    If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
    me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... ;-)
     
    ~misfit~, Jun 20, 2008
    #3
  4. ~misfit~

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Somewhere on teh intarweb "thingy" typed:
    > What's your present motherboard?
    >
    > P5K?


    P5K-E WiFi AP

    I wouldn't thank you for a vanilla P5K, they're really bare-bones with only
    a 3 phase VRM and I'm an overclocker. :)

    > I seem to recall a comment that a bios was coming out to allow the use
    > of the Q6700 CPUs?


    Latest BIOS release for P5K was April.

    > Though the Q9540 looks interesting....


    It does. Around $500 from what I can see. However, I'm not convinced that a
    quad core CPU is going to be the best choice over the next few years (for me
    at least) and I'd go with an E8400 at around $300. It should do 4GHz with my
    board and cooler which would equate to a far faster system than the Q9540
    for everything that I do with lower power consumption and less heat output.

    Intel next-gen stuff, Nehalem, will probably be when I look at more than 2
    cores. It'll be a mature platform too by the time I'm able to afford a new
    mobo. <g>

    Cheers,
    --
    Shaun.

    DISCLAIMER: If you find a posting or message from me
    offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it.
    If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
    me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... ;-)
     
    ~misfit~, Jun 20, 2008
    #4
  5. ~misfit~

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Somewhere on teh intarweb "Nighthawk" typed:
    > On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 11:52:29 +1200, "~misfit~"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >> Hey,
    >>
    >> I'm Intel all the way at the moment. However, a friend bought a
    >> built-up 'gaming machine' (I've mentioned it before here, it's been
    >> nothing but trouble) using an Asus M3A motherboard, a Phenom 9500
    >> CPU, 1x2GB DDR2 module and a 9600GT.
    >>
    >> The machine's abeen a nightmare. Firstly it was supplied with a PSU
    >> that was barely capable of 300W. I replaced it with a reasonable
    >> 510W PSU, reinstalled Windows (don't ask!), updated the BIOS and it
    >> seemed alright for a while. I showed him how to raise vcore if it
    >> kept crashing.
    >>
    >> Well, yesterday he rang me and asked about a replacement mobo. He's
    >> raised vcore all the way (!) in BIOS, 1.550V and it's still
    >> crashing. I expressed concern at the high voltage but he assured me
    >> that the two hardware monitoring apps I'd given him, HWMonitor and
    >> CPU-Z both say that the vcore is only 1.2xxV when in Windows. I also
    >> got him to raise VDIMM to (at the moment) 2.05V. He doesn't have
    >> another stick of DDR2 to try and I only have what's in this machine
    >> and I'm loathe to mess with it. My luck hasn't been great of late.
    >> :-/
    >>
    >> I've been sick so I advised him to get a single 1GB stick of DDR2 -
    >> 800 and try that alone. However, if that doesn't waork he wants me
    >> to advise on a good mobo. I like Asus personally (followed by
    >> Gigabyte) but the vanilla M3A model that he has, going by Googling,
    >> seems to have been a lemon. As I mentioned, I'm not au fait with
    >> current AMD boards or chipsets so a suggestion or two would be nice.
    >> :) He'll pay between $200 and $300. Also, he's siad that this is
    >> the last time he ever buys a PC on impulse. I've built the last two
    >> machines for him and they've been trouble-free. He's rather
    >> surprised that a PC can be this much trouble, LOL.
    >>
    >> Another thing, I've heard that the first Phenoms, the 9x00 range,
    >> were 'flaky', that the 9x50 are much better. However, surely they're
    >> not *that* bad that he needs to replace his CPU?
    >>
    >> All input appreciated. He's desperate and is going to be calling me
    >> soon. I'll look around but anyone with a positive experience with an
    >> AM2+ mobo that they want to share would be great. Also, any comments
    >> on the above; RAM? CPU?
    >>
    >> The clowns that threw this machine together were, IMO, getting rid of
    >> troublesome or slow-moving stock. The PSU was a lemon, the mobo
    >> won't work with LAN drivers off the supplied CD, nobody's buying the
    >> 9x00 Phenoms now the 9x50 ones are around... These guys are that
    >> incompetent that they didn't remove the jumper from the Seagate
    >> 500Gb 7200.11 HDD that limits it to SATA I speed.
    >>
    >> Anyway, I digress. Suggestions appreciated.
    >>
    >> TIA,

    >
    > Lemon? Sounds like the ASUS M2A-VM at my end!


    Heh!

    > The GIGABYTE GA-MA78GM-S2H
    > http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/Motherboard/Products_Overview.aspx?ProductID=2814
    > seems to get good reviews, well specced too, with eSATA, SB700 chipset
    > and integrated HD3200 graphics, Hybrid Crossfire compatible (Vista
    > only).


    It looks like a good board, well priced too. However, he's a gamer, has a
    9600GT (Hmmm, perhaps I could talk him out of it, LOL) and he has a bloody
    great big, full windowed, Thermaltake Soprano case. A little mATX board like
    that would just look silly in that case. :)

    The Gigabyte GA-MA770-DS3 would probaly suit him better although it's dearer
    for a board *without* on board graphics and with an older chipset!

    > I doubt that he needs to replace the CPU but 2.4GHz 8650 Tri cores are
    > available now.


    Yeah, hopefully the CPU's fine. Actually, after getting a phone call every
    couple hours I haven't heard from him since he bought a cheapo ($45) 1GB
    stick of DDR2 to swap out with the 2GB stick that came with it at lunchtime.
    Perhaps it's been a RAM problem this whole time?

    Nah, I doubt it, things are rarely that easy for me to troubleshoot/fix. <g>

    Cheers,
    --
    Shaun.

    DISCLAIMER: If you find a posting or message from me
    offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it.
    If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
    me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... ;-)
     
    ~misfit~, Jun 20, 2008
    #5
  6. ~misfit~

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Somewhere on teh intarweb "thing" typed:
    > ~misfit~ wrote:
    >> Somewhere on teh intarweb "thingy" typed:
    >>> What's your present motherboard?
    >>>
    >>> P5K?

    >>
    >> P5K-E WiFi AP
    >>
    >> I wouldn't thank you for a vanilla P5K, they're really bare-bones
    >> with only a 3 phase VRM and I'm an overclocker. :)
    >>
    >>> I seem to recall a comment that a bios was coming out to allow the
    >>> use of the Q6700 CPUs?

    >>
    >> Latest BIOS release for P5K was April.
    >>
    >>> Though the Q9540 looks interesting....

    >>
    >> It does. Around $500 from what I can see. However, I'm not convinced
    >> that a quad core CPU is going to be the best choice over the next
    >> few years (for me at least) and I'd go with an E8400 at around $300.
    >> It should do 4GHz with my board and cooler which would equate to a
    >> far faster system than the Q9540 for everything that I do with lower
    >> power consumption and less heat output. Intel next-gen stuff, Nehalem,
    >> will probably be when I look at more
    >> than 2 cores.

    >
    > At work we are already considering what we can do with 8 cores per
    > socket....
    >
    > ;]


    Yeah. By the time I get into them you'll probably need at least four cores
    for the latest version of Windows. <g>

    > It'll be a mature platform too by the time I'm able to afford a new
    >> mobo. <g>
    >>
    >> Cheers,

    >
    > Yep, pick the cpu for the job....I look at what I do with it and
    > Supreme Commander rocks on a quad core.


    Whereas I'm still playing old games and they're just dandy on a fast dual
    core.

    > The P5K-E seem to be the last of the good boards ie with DDR2, DDR3
    > just costs too much, maybe in 6months it will be sane but at the
    > moment no way...


    Indeed.

    > Unless soemthing better comes out I reckon on the same board as you.


    IMO it's by far the best board for the money. Actually it'd still be the
    best board for 1.5 x the money. ;-)

    Cheers,
    --
    Shaun.

    DISCLAIMER: If you find a posting or message from me
    offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it.
    If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
    me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... ;-)
     
    ~misfit~, Jun 20, 2008
    #6
  7. ~misfit~

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Somewhere on teh intarweb "Freesias" typed:
    > On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 18:55:06 +1200, ~misfit~ wrote:
    >
    >> Intel next-gen stuff, Nehalem, will probably be when I look at more
    >> than 2 cores. It'll be a mature platform too by the time I'm able to
    >> afford a new mobo. <g>

    >
    > I'd be inclined to agree with you about that - multiple core
    > technology is still relatively new and I think there is still some
    > maturing and improvements that can be done, and then a little time
    > for the prices to come down. :eek:)


    Heh! Yeah, that's about where I stand too. I'm going to be following Nehalem
    with interest.

    Cheers,
    --
    Shaun.

    DISCLAIMER: If you find a posting or message from me
    offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it.
    If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
    me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... ;-)
     
    ~misfit~, Jun 20, 2008
    #7
  8. ~misfit~

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Somewhere on teh intarweb "Nighthawk" typed:
    > On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 21:52:58 +1200, "~misfit~"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >>> Lemon? Sounds like the ASUS M2A-VM at my end!

    >>
    >> Heh!
    >>
    >>> The GIGABYTE GA-MA78GM-S2H
    >>> http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/Motherboard/Products_Overview.aspx?ProductID=2814
    >>> seems to get good reviews, well specced too, with eSATA, SB700
    >>> chipset and integrated HD3200 graphics, Hybrid Crossfire compatible
    >>> (Vista only).

    >>
    >> It looks like a good board, well priced too. However, he's a gamer,
    >> has a 9600GT (Hmmm, perhaps I could talk him out of it, LOL) and he
    >> has a bloody great big, full windowed, Thermaltake Soprano case. A
    >> little mATX board like that would just look silly in that case. :)
    >>
    >> The Gigabyte GA-MA770-DS3 would probaly suit him better although
    >> it's dearer for a board *without* on board graphics and with an
    >> older chipset!
    >>
    >>> I doubt that he needs to replace the CPU but 2.4GHz 8650 Tri cores
    >>> are available now.

    >>
    >> Yeah, hopefully the CPU's fine. Actually, after getting a phone call
    >> every couple hours I haven't heard from him since he bought a cheapo
    >> ($45) 1GB stick of DDR2 to swap out with the 2GB stick that came
    >> with it at lunchtime. Perhaps it's been a RAM problem this whole
    >> time?
    >>
    >> Nah, I doubt it, things are rarely that easy for me to
    >> troubleshoot/fix. <g>
    >>

    > Not a poser's mobo. But a multi-PCIe slot one would have nice
    > heatpipe cooling for onboard chipsets. There aren't many boards
    > around with eSATA yet, but that little one is one.


    Heh! Mine too.

    > In a comparison the 2.4GHz Tri Core outperformed the 9500 2.2GHz
    > quadcore in Crysis. I wonder if there will be 45nm AM2+ CPUs coming?


    I'm sure there will be, (as long as AMD stay in business) the only question
    is when?
    --
    Shaun.

    DISCLAIMER: If you find a posting or message from me
    offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it.
    If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
    me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... ;-)
     
    ~misfit~, Jun 20, 2008
    #8
  9. ~misfit~

    Dave Taylor Guest

    "~misfit~" <> wrote in
    news::

    > I'm Intel all the way at the moment. However, a friend bought a
    > built-up 'gaming machine' (I've mentioned it before here, it's been
    > nothing but trouble) using an Asus M3A motherboard, a Phenom 9500 CPU,
    > 1x2GB DDR2 module and a 9600GT.


    AMD Cool and Quiet feature is known to cause heaps of trouble. Turn it off
    in the BIOS after doing a reset to BIOS defaults.

    --
    Ciao, Dave
     
    Dave Taylor, Jun 21, 2008
    #9
  10. "~misfit~" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hey,
    >
    > I'm Intel all the way at the moment. However, a friend bought a built-up
    > 'gaming machine' (I've mentioned it before here, it's been nothing but
    > trouble) using an Asus M3A motherboard, a Phenom 9500 CPU, 1x2GB DDR2
    > module and a 9600GT.
    >
    > The machine's abeen a nightmare. Firstly it was supplied with a PSU that
    > was barely capable of 300W. I replaced it with a reasonable 510W PSU,
    > reinstalled Windows (don't ask!), updated the BIOS and it seemed alright
    > for a while. I showed him how to raise vcore if it kept crashing.
    >
    > Well, yesterday he rang me and asked about a replacement mobo. He's raised
    > vcore all the way (!) in BIOS, 1.550V and it's still crashing. I expressed
    > concern at the high voltage but he assured me that the two hardware
    > monitoring apps I'd given him, HWMonitor and CPU-Z both say that the vcore
    > is only 1.2xxV when in Windows. I also got him to raise VDIMM to (at the
    > moment) 2.05V. He doesn't have another stick of DDR2 to try and I only
    > have what's in this machine and I'm loathe to mess with it. My luck hasn't
    > been great of late. :-/
    >
    > I've been sick so I advised him to get a single 1GB stick of DDR2 - 800
    > and try that alone. However, if that doesn't waork he wants me to advise
    > on a good mobo. I like Asus personally (followed by Gigabyte) but the
    > vanilla M3A model that he has, going by Googling, seems to have been a
    > lemon. As I mentioned, I'm not au fait with current AMD boards or chipsets
    > so a suggestion or two would be nice. :) He'll pay between $200 and $300.
    > Also, he's siad that this is the last time he ever buys a PC on impulse.
    > I've built the last two machines for him and they've been trouble-free.
    > He's rather surprised that a PC can be this much trouble, LOL.
    >
    > Another thing, I've heard that the first Phenoms, the 9x00 range, were
    > 'flaky', that the 9x50 are much better. However, surely they're not *that*
    > bad that he needs to replace his CPU?
    >
    > All input appreciated. He's desperate and is going to be calling me soon.
    > I'll look around but anyone with a positive experience with an AM2+ mobo
    > that they want to share would be great. Also, any comments on the above;
    > RAM? CPU?
    >
    > The clowns that threw this machine together were, IMO, getting rid of
    > troublesome or slow-moving stock. The PSU was a lemon, the mobo won't work
    > with LAN drivers off the supplied CD, nobody's buying the 9x00 Phenoms now
    > the 9x50 ones are around... These guys are that incompetent that they
    > didn't remove the jumper from the Seagate 500Gb 7200.11 HDD that limits it
    > to SATA I speed.
    >
    > Anyway, I digress. Suggestions appreciated.
    >
    > TIA,
    > --
    > Shaun.
    >
    > DISCLAIMER: If you find a posting or message from me
    > offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it.
    > If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
    > me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... ;-)


    There is so much bad advice here it's disturbing.

    AMD don't overclock well?
    Hmm, I've been running my 2Ghz at 2.7Ghz stable for 2 years, on stock
    cooling and voltage.

    Cheap motherboards don't overclock well?
    See above, was done on a $117 ASRock motherboard.

    Asus are a good brand?
    We have had 16 motherboard failures in a batch of 20 machines at work, all
    with one of 3 different Asus board models.
    Some are now on their 3rd Asus board.

    You didn't say much about what testing you have done? Most games aren't
    multithreaded and can be unstable on multi core systems. Try setting the
    games cpu affinity.
    Not much info on what the actual problems were, you should (may have) run
    all the basic tests on the system (Memtest etc). I'd recommend staying away
    from hdmi chipsets until a couple of revisions have passed. I used to be a
    fan of Gigabyte, but after seeing a large number of failures at 1 year old
    I'm now convinced they've turned to shit, much like Asus. I'd recommend he
    get an ASRock board that meets his requirements. I have not seen one of
    these fail yet, but having said that there are less of them around.

    J&H.
     
    Jekyll and Hyde, Jun 21, 2008
    #10
  11. ~misfit~

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Somewhere on teh intarweb "Jekyll and Hyde" typed:
    > "~misfit~" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> Hey,
    >>
    >> I'm Intel all the way at the moment. However, a friend bought a
    >> built-up 'gaming machine' (I've mentioned it before here, it's been
    >> nothing but trouble) using an Asus M3A motherboard, a Phenom 9500
    >> CPU, 1x2GB DDR2 module and a 9600GT.
    >>
    >> The machine's abeen a nightmare. Firstly it was supplied with a PSU
    >> that was barely capable of 300W. I replaced it with a reasonable
    >> 510W PSU, reinstalled Windows (don't ask!), updated the BIOS and it
    >> seemed alright for a while. I showed him how to raise vcore if it
    >> kept crashing. Well, yesterday he rang me and asked about a replacement
    >> mobo. He's
    >> raised vcore all the way (!) in BIOS, 1.550V and it's still
    >> crashing. I expressed concern at the high voltage but he assured me
    >> that the two hardware monitoring apps I'd given him, HWMonitor and
    >> CPU-Z both say that the vcore is only 1.2xxV when in Windows. I also
    >> got him to raise VDIMM to (at the moment) 2.05V. He doesn't have
    >> another stick of DDR2 to try and I only have what's in this machine
    >> and I'm loathe to mess with it. My luck hasn't been great of late.
    >> :-/ I've been sick so I advised him to get a single 1GB stick of DDR2 -
    >> 800 and try that alone. However, if that doesn't waork he wants me
    >> to advise on a good mobo. I like Asus personally (followed by
    >> Gigabyte) but the vanilla M3A model that he has, going by Googling,
    >> seems to have been a lemon. As I mentioned, I'm not au fait with
    >> current AMD boards or chipsets so a suggestion or two would be nice.
    >> :) He'll pay between $200 and $300. Also, he's siad that this is
    >> the last time he ever buys a PC on impulse. I've built the last two
    >> machines for him and they've been trouble-free. He's rather
    >> surprised that a PC can be this much trouble, LOL. Another thing, I've
    >> heard that the first Phenoms, the 9x00 range,
    >> were 'flaky', that the 9x50 are much better. However, surely they're
    >> not *that* bad that he needs to replace his CPU?
    >>
    >> All input appreciated. He's desperate and is going to be calling me
    >> soon. I'll look around but anyone with a positive experience with an
    >> AM2+ mobo that they want to share would be great. Also, any comments
    >> on the above; RAM? CPU?
    >>
    >> The clowns that threw this machine together were, IMO, getting rid of
    >> troublesome or slow-moving stock. The PSU was a lemon, the mobo
    >> won't work with LAN drivers off the supplied CD, nobody's buying the
    >> 9x00 Phenoms now the 9x50 ones are around... These guys are that
    >> incompetent that they didn't remove the jumper from the Seagate
    >> 500Gb 7200.11 HDD that limits it to SATA I speed.
    >>
    >> Anyway, I digress. Suggestions appreciated.
    >>
    >> TIA,
    >> --
    >> Shaun.
    >>
    >> DISCLAIMER: If you find a posting or message from me
    >> offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it.
    >> If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
    >> me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... ;-)

    >
    > There is so much bad advice here it's disturbing.


    OMG!! That wasn't my intention, having a disturbed person as a result of my
    innocent inquiry.

    BTW, you're replying to my post and saying "there is so much bad advice
    here". Therefore I feel compelled to reply:

    > AMD don't overclock well?


    Where did I say that? I believe that, in a different post, I may have agreed
    that current AMDs don't OC well. However, I'm not talking about historically
    and to think so would be simply looking for trouble IMO. I have an XP1800+
    here that's specced to run at 1.53GHz that's been running at 2.2GHz all of
    it's life. Why would I say that no AMDs overclock well?

    > Hmm, I've been running my 2Ghz at 2.7Ghz stable for 2 years, on stock
    > cooling and voltage.
    >
    > Cheap motherboards don't overclock well?


    Again, I don't see where I said that. Afore-mentioned XP1800+ is in one of
    the cheapest mobos that were available at the time. OK, I've had to swap out
    the capacitors after 18 months but still....

    > See above, was done on a $117 ASRock motherboard.
    >
    > Asus are a good brand?
    > We have had 16 motherboard failures in a batch of 20 machines at
    > work, all with one of 3 different Asus board models.
    > Some are now on their 3rd Asus board.


    Are you inserting RAM modules with a hammer? Running them off 'dirty'
    powersupplies? You don't get top be one of the biggest mobo manufacturers in
    the world if 90% of your motherboards fail.

    > You didn't say much about what testing you have done?


    S'been a while since I had my hands on it. At the time I would have done
    Prime95 (blend of RAM and CPU) and wouldn't have let it go if it wasn't fine
    for at least 2 hours. If it'd failed I'd have used Memtest86 to narrow down
    what was failing.

    > Most games
    > aren't multithreaded and can be unstable on multi core systems. Try
    > setting the games cpu affinity.


    I'll mention that to him if he calls and still has problems.

    > Not much info on what the actual problems were, you should (may have)
    > run all the basic tests on the system (Memtest etc). I'd recommend
    > staying away from hdmi chipsets until a couple of revisions have
    > passed.


    I intend to stay away from them forever if it's remotely possible.

    > I used to be a fan of Gigabyte, but after seeing a large
    > number of failures at 1 year old I'm now convinced they've turned to
    > shit, much like Asus. I'd recommend he get an ASRock board that meets
    > his requirements. I have not seen one of these fail yet, but having
    > said that there are less of them around.


    Thanks for the vote for Asrock. Duly noted.
    --
    Shaun.

    DISCLAIMER: If you find a posting or message from me
    offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it.
    If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
    me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... ;-)
     
    ~misfit~, Jun 21, 2008
    #11
  12. ~misfit~

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Somewhere on teh intarweb "Dave Taylor" typed:
    > "~misfit~" <> wrote in
    > news::
    >
    >> I'm Intel all the way at the moment. However, a friend bought a
    >> built-up 'gaming machine' (I've mentioned it before here, it's been
    >> nothing but trouble) using an Asus M3A motherboard, a Phenom 9500
    >> CPU, 1x2GB DDR2 module and a 9600GT.

    >
    > AMD Cool and Quiet feature is known to cause heaps of trouble. Turn
    > it off in the BIOS after doing a reset to BIOS defaults.


    Hmmm, good point. I can't remeber if I turned it off or not when it was here
    a few months ago. Thanks Dave.

    Cheers,
    --
    Shaun.

    DISCLAIMER: If you find a posting or message from me
    offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it.
    If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
    me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... ;-)
     
    ~misfit~, Jun 21, 2008
    #12
  13. Seems I got you off on the wrong foot. When I said...

    Quote myself... "There is so much bad advice here it's disturbing.

    AMD don't overclock well?
    Hmm, I've been running my 2Ghz at 2.7Ghz stable for 2 years, on stock
    cooling and voltage.

    Cheap motherboards don't overclock well?
    See above, was done on a $117 ASRock motherboard.

    Asus are a good brand?
    We have had 16 motherboard failures in a batch of 20 machines at work, all
    with one of 3 different Asus board models.
    Some are now on their 3rd Asus board... end quote.

    I was referring to the other posters, not you.

    J&H.
     
    Jekyll and Hyde, Jun 21, 2008
    #13
  14. ~misfit~

    EMB Guest

    ~misfit~ wrote:
    > Are you inserting RAM modules with a hammer? Running them off 'dirty'
    > powersupplies? You don't get top be one of the biggest mobo manufacturers in
    > the world if 90% of your motherboards fail.


    The last 2 motherboards I have seen fail for no apparent reason have
    been Asus ones. I will think carefully before buying Asus in future.
     
    EMB, Jun 21, 2008
    #14
  15. ~misfit~

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Somewhere on teh intarweb "EMB" typed:
    > ~misfit~ wrote:
    >> Are you inserting RAM modules with a hammer? Running them off 'dirty'
    >> powersupplies? You don't get top be one of the biggest mobo
    >> manufacturers in the world if 90% of your motherboards fail.

    >
    > The last 2 motherboards I have seen fail for no apparent reason have
    > been Asus ones. I will think carefully before buying Asus in future.


    Aye, there will always be failures, it's the nature of the mass-produced
    beast. At least Asus are good about RMAs.

    However, two is hardly a trend, at least compared with '16 out of 20, with
    some of them on their 3rd board' that "J&H" mentioned.

    We can only report personal experience (or hearsay) and my personal
    experience with around half a dozen Asus boards in the last year has been
    all good. Other than this AMD one, which is the cheapest ATX socket AM2+
    board that they do, never a recipe for a trouble-free system. If you're
    looking at the cheapest Asus, you're better off with an Asrock, they're
    basically just Asus built to a lower price-point anyway and as such are more
    reliable budget boards.

    If I was to report hearsay I'd say that the scuttlebut in the forums is that
    lower end Asus boards are getting unreliable of late, which reinforces my
    opinion that Asrock is a better choice for a budget board. (Yet I have a
    sub-$100 mATX Asus board that has been absolutely a pleasure to set up and
    use.)

    Cheers, French GP tonight, should be interesting. I'm going to watch the
    replay of the qualifying in 20 minutes. :)
    --
    Shaun.

    DISCLAIMER: If you find a posting or message from me
    offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it.
    If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
    me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... ;-)
     
    ~misfit~, Jun 22, 2008
    #15
  16. ~misfit~

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Somewhere on teh intarweb "Nighthawk" typed:
    > On Sat, 21 Jun 2008 18:12:04 +1200, "Jekyll and Hyde"
    > <jekyll&> wrote:
    >
    >> "~misfit~" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>> Hey,
    >>>
    >>> I'm Intel all the way at the moment. However, a friend bought a
    >>> built-up 'gaming machine' (I've mentioned it before here, it's been
    >>> nothing but trouble) using an Asus M3A motherboard, a Phenom 9500
    >>> CPU, 1x2GB DDR2 module and a 9600GT.
    >>>
    >>> The machine's abeen a nightmare. Firstly it was supplied with a PSU
    >>> that was barely capable of 300W. I replaced it with a reasonable
    >>> 510W PSU, reinstalled Windows (don't ask!), updated the BIOS and it
    >>> seemed alright for a while. I showed him how to raise vcore if it
    >>> kept crashing.
    >>>
    >>> Well, yesterday he rang me and asked about a replacement mobo. He's
    >>> raised vcore all the way (!) in BIOS, 1.550V and it's still
    >>> crashing. I expressed concern at the high voltage but he assured me
    >>> that the two hardware monitoring apps I'd given him, HWMonitor and
    >>> CPU-Z both say that the vcore is only 1.2xxV when in Windows. I
    >>> also got him to raise VDIMM to (at the moment) 2.05V. He doesn't
    >>> have another stick of DDR2 to try and I only have what's in this
    >>> machine and I'm loathe to mess with it. My luck hasn't been great
    >>> of late. :-/
    >>>
    >>> I've been sick so I advised him to get a single 1GB stick of DDR2 -
    >>> 800 and try that alone. However, if that doesn't waork he wants me
    >>> to advise on a good mobo. I like Asus personally (followed by
    >>> Gigabyte) but the vanilla M3A model that he has, going by Googling,
    >>> seems to have been a lemon. As I mentioned, I'm not au fait with
    >>> current AMD boards or chipsets so a suggestion or two would be
    >>> nice. :) He'll pay between $200 and $300. Also, he's siad that
    >>> this is the last time he ever buys a PC on impulse. I've built the
    >>> last two machines for him and they've been trouble-free. He's
    >>> rather surprised that a PC can be this much trouble, LOL.
    >>>
    >>> Another thing, I've heard that the first Phenoms, the 9x00 range,
    >>> were 'flaky', that the 9x50 are much better. However, surely
    >>> they're not *that* bad that he needs to replace his CPU?
    >>>
    >>> All input appreciated. He's desperate and is going to be calling me
    >>> soon. I'll look around but anyone with a positive experience with
    >>> an AM2+ mobo that they want to share would be great. Also, any
    >>> comments on the above; RAM? CPU?
    >>>
    >>> The clowns that threw this machine together were, IMO, getting rid
    >>> of troublesome or slow-moving stock. The PSU was a lemon, the mobo
    >>> won't work with LAN drivers off the supplied CD, nobody's buying
    >>> the 9x00 Phenoms now the 9x50 ones are around... These guys are
    >>> that incompetent that they didn't remove the jumper from the
    >>> Seagate 500Gb 7200.11 HDD that limits it to SATA I speed.
    >>>
    >>> Anyway, I digress. Suggestions appreciated.
    >>>
    >>> TIA,
    >>> --
    >>> Shaun.
    >>>
    >>> DISCLAIMER: If you find a posting or message from me
    >>> offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it.
    >>> If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
    >>> me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... ;-)

    >>
    >> There is so much bad advice here it's disturbing.
    >>
    >> AMD don't overclock well?
    >> Hmm, I've been running my 2Ghz at 2.7Ghz stable for 2 years, on stock
    >> cooling and voltage.
    >>
    >> Cheap motherboards don't overclock well?
    >> See above, was done on a $117 ASRock motherboard.
    >>
    >> Asus are a good brand?
    >> We have had 16 motherboard failures in a batch of 20 machines at
    >> work, all with one of 3 different Asus board models.
    >> Some are now on their 3rd Asus board.
    >>
    >> You didn't say much about what testing you have done? Most games
    >> aren't multithreaded and can be unstable on multi core systems. Try
    >> setting the games cpu affinity.
    >> Not much info on what the actual problems were, you should (may
    >> have) run all the basic tests on the system (Memtest etc). I'd
    >> recommend staying away from hdmi chipsets until a couple of
    >> revisions have passed. I used to be a fan of Gigabyte, but after
    >> seeing a large number of failures at 1 year old I'm now convinced
    >> they've turned to shit, much like Asus. I'd recommend he get an
    >> ASRock board that meets his requirements. I have not seen one of
    >> these fail yet, but having said that there are less of them around.
    >>
    >> J&H.
    >>

    > ASRock is ASUS budget brand.


    Yep. As I just said to EMB, if anyone is considering a bottom-of-range Asus,
    I'd suggest that they look at Asrock instead.

    > I have had one ASRock board fail, in the
    > middle of a DVD.


    It's inevitable that there are going to be some failures with the complexity
    of these things and the (relatively) low price we pay for them

    > I was told at PBTech that they don't stock Gigabyte
    > boards anymore because of the number of returns and they are keeping
    > to ASUS.


    Now that *is* interesting. I've laways had them second to Asus in my mind
    for mid range and better boards. (The only reason I've not mentioned Asrock
    before is I rarely build around budget components, prefering instead to
    study a line of [Asus] boards, read forums and user reviews, then divine the
    'sweet-spot' of the range.)

    > Being slight gunshy about ASUS mobos myself recently perhaps there are
    > other good brands?


    I'm an Asus man too. <shrug> What can I say? My current board (P5K-E
    WiFi/AP) is excellent. my second computer is also running an Asus board (C2D
    capable but using DDR and AGP, very handy for using the older bits up) that
    has been completely trouble-free and every machine I've built of late has
    been on Asus boards and I've not had a problem. However, I do research what
    model to get first, it appeasr that there is the odd lemon in the line up.

    Well, Tyan are supposed to be really good but at 2 x the price of most
    boards and being mainly server oriented you'd expect that. Soltek were good
    untill they succumbed to the consequences of using cheap capacitors.

    DFI used to have a good rep but they seem to be dwindling. Likewise MSI.
    I've had one DFI, (was fine until it stopped working, along with PSU and
    CPU. I suspect PSU blew the rest. Back when I was green and didn't pay no
    mind to PSUs....) never had an MSI, the only dealings I've had with them was
    a mate bringing me a brand new pre-built machine to troubleshoot and me
    isolating the mobo as being faulty. It didn't exactly inspire me to buy
    another.

    Abit are still hanging in there, just. I've not had much experience with
    them but have heard good things going back a few years though, I have no
    idea of their current state. Also, see that XFX, a name *I've* only
    associated with high-end graphics cards until now, are entering (?) the mobo
    market, could be worth keeping an eye on.

    However, ultimately, the majority of retailers are offering Asus, Asus,
    Gigabyte, Gigabyte, Asrock, MSI and maybe DFI. There must be a reason that
    Asus and Gigabyte are dominating the market.

    Gotta run, the F1 qual replay is about to start...
    --
    Shaun.

    DISCLAIMER: If you find a posting or message from me
    offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it.
    If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
    me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... ;-)
     
    ~misfit~, Jun 22, 2008
    #16
  17. ~misfit~

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Somewhere on teh intarweb "Jekyll and Hyde" typed:
    > Seems I got you off on the wrong foot. When I said...
    >
    > Quote myself... "There is so much bad advice here it's disturbing.
    >
    > AMD don't overclock well?
    > Hmm, I've been running my 2Ghz at 2.7Ghz stable for 2 years, on stock
    > cooling and voltage.
    >
    > Cheap motherboards don't overclock well?
    > See above, was done on a $117 ASRock motherboard.
    >
    > Asus are a good brand?
    > We have had 16 motherboard failures in a batch of 20 machines at
    > work, all with one of 3 different Asus board models.
    > Some are now on their 3rd Asus board... end quote.
    >
    > I was referring to the other posters, not you.


    Ok, thanks for the explaination. I take a reply to one of my posts as being
    a direct reply to me. I see now that wasn't the case this time.

    Cheers,
    --
    Shaun.

    DISCLAIMER: If you find a posting or message from me
    offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it.
    If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
    me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... ;-)
     
    ~misfit~, Jun 22, 2008
    #17
  18. ~misfit~

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Somewhere on teh intarweb "~misfit~" typed:
    > Somewhere on teh intarweb "Nighthawk" typed:
    >> ASRock is ASUS budget brand.

    >
    > Yep. As I just said to EMB, if anyone is considering a
    > bottom-of-range Asus, I'd suggest that they look at Asrock instead.


    That is, if they can find Asrock in NZ. I haven't searched as such but I've
    been looking at some suppliers websites and it just struck me, I didn't see
    one Asrock board on any of them.
    --
    Shaun.

    DISCLAIMER: If you find a posting or message from me
    offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it.
    If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
    me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... ;-)
     
    ~misfit~, Jun 22, 2008
    #18
  19. ~misfit~

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Somewhere on teh intarweb "thingy" typed:


    <snip snip>

    > The P45 boards look interesting...Gigabyte is promising a huge range
    > of boards, 24 I think they said...trying to decide which one you want
    > and then making sure you get what you ordered might be fun....not.


    They do look interesting. However, Socket 775/T is at an end. Wolfdale is
    the last CPU revision for this platform although I'm sure they'll still be
    sold for a time, with the odd 'new' model thrown in. Personally I don't see
    a need to change from my P35 board.

    Now, if I was buying a year from now and Nehalem was either delayed or still
    too expensive and P45 boards were the price P35's are now...

    > One model even has 4 x Gb....ffs who wants quad nics!....hmmm unless
    > its a small server board....10 SATA...thats a lot of hds....plus 2 x
    > 4pci-e.....


    Hehee! There's always something better around the corner. I stopped
    "waiting" when it came to buying PC components quite a while ago. I realised
    that I'd never get anything if I kept reading 'upcoming' reviews or about
    the latest stuff, then deciding to wait for it to become affordable, by
    which time the next great thing was announced..... <g>

    Cheers,
    --
    Shaun.

    DISCLAIMER: If you find a posting or message from me
    offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it.
    If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
    me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... ;-)
     
    ~misfit~, Jun 23, 2008
    #19
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