Gigabit symmetric broadband...

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Bling-Bling, Apr 24, 2005.

  1. Bling-Bling

    Bling-Bling Guest

    Gigabit Symmetric broadband launched in Hongkong!
    Makes what's on offer here in NZ look totally pathetic!


    http://www.convergedigest.com/Bandwidth/newnetworksarticle.asp?ID=14545
    Hong Kong Broadband Launches 1 Gbps Home Service for US$215/month
    21-Apr-05


    Hong Kong Broadband Network (HKBN) officially launched its 1 Gbps
    symmetric service for the residential market. Approximately 800,000
    households, out of a total of 2.2 million households in Hong Kong, are
    wired to receive the service. The 1 Gbps symmetric service is priced at
    US$215 per month.

    HKBN noted that its 1 Gbps service is up to 166x faster downstream and
    1,950x faster upstream than the advertised bandwidth of the incumbent's
    ADSL service.

    HKBN Premium bb1000 service is being offered on the same metro Ethernet
    infrastructure that delivers the company's Mass Market bb100 (symmetric
    100 Mbps for US$34/month) and Entry Point bb10 (symmetric 10 Mbps for
    US$16/month) services.

    ==
    Bling-Bling, Apr 24, 2005
    #1
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  2. In article <pan.2005.04.24.13.08.32.575946@TRACKER>, Bling-Bling <> wrote:
    *SNIP*
    >Hong Kong Broadband Network (HKBN) officially launched its 1 Gbps
    >symmetric service for the residential market. Approximately 800,000
    >households, out of a total of 2.2 million households in Hong Kong, are

    *SNIP*

    Much as I hate to be seen as possibly supporting our crap network
    infrastructure, where in NZ could you find 800,000 households in the
    same land area as Hong Kong, let alone 2.2 million?

    --
    Matthew Poole
    "Veni, vidi, velcro...
    I came, I saw, I stuck around"

    My real e-mail is mattATp00leDOTnet
    Matthew Poole, Apr 24, 2005
    #2
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  3. Bling-Bling

    -=rjh=- Guest

    Bling-Bling wrote:
    > Gigabit Symmetric broadband launched in Hongkong!
    > Makes what's on offer here in NZ look totally pathetic!
    >
    >


    We'll get it here one day; but with a 1GB cap :)
    -=rjh=-, Apr 24, 2005
    #3
  4. Bling-Bling

    JedMeister Guest

    "Matthew Poole" <> wrote in message
    news:d4h3pk$dnf$...
    > In article <pan.2005.04.24.13.08.32.575946@TRACKER>, Bling-Bling
    > <> wrote:
    > *SNIP*
    >>Hong Kong Broadband Network (HKBN) officially launched its 1 Gbps
    >>symmetric service for the residential market. Approximately 800,000
    >>households, out of a total of 2.2 million households in Hong Kong, are

    > *SNIP*
    >
    > Much as I hate to be seen as possibly supporting our crap network
    > infrastructure, where in NZ could you find 800,000 households in the
    > same land area as Hong Kong, let alone 2.2 million?
    >
    > --
    > Matthew Poole
    > "Veni, vidi, velcro...
    > I came, I saw, I stuck around"
    >
    > My real e-mail is mattATp00leDOTnet


    Take that attitude and NZ would be 3rd world in all regards.
    JedMeister, Apr 24, 2005
    #4
  5. Bling-Bling

    Bling-Bling Guest

    On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 20:41:09 +0000, Matthew Poole wrote:

    >>Hong Kong Broadband Network (HKBN) officially launched its 1 Gbps
    >>symmetric service for the residential market. Approximately 800,000
    >>households, out of a total of 2.2 million households in Hong Kong, are

    > *SNIP*
    >
    > Much as I hate to be seen as possibly supporting our crap network
    > infrastructure, where in NZ could you find 800,000 households in the
    > same land area as Hong Kong, let alone 2.2 million?


    With fibre optic cabling, the population density doesn't matter all that
    much - because the distribution network could be (is?) modeled just like
    the Internet, with nodes and backbones in various places.

    Certainly within The City such a service would be possible for all the
    new and existing high-rise accomodation that is being developed. How
    Auckland and other places would be able to deal with it is another story.


    Bling Bling

    --
    IBM: "Linux is not just another operating system. It represents a
    collaboration of the best programmers in the industry coming together to
    create an operating system that works on any hardware platform."
    Bling-Bling, Apr 25, 2005
    #5
  6. On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 01:08:33 +1200, Bling-Bling
    <> wrote:

    >Gigabit Symmetric broadband launched in Hongkong!
    >Makes what's on offer here in NZ look totally pathetic!


    we always knew you were pathetic
    FreedomChooser, Apr 25, 2005
    #6
  7. Bling-Bling

    Enkidu Guest

    Bling-Bling wrote:
    >
    > Gigabit Symmetric broadband launched in Hongkong!
    >

    The question is, why? At that rate you could download 1GB
    every 8 seconds. 60GB in 8 minutes. You could fill most hard
    disks within an hour.

    The only use would be streaming, but even then it would be
    unlikely that you could anywhere near that unless your
    ntwork connection service supplied things like video or fims
    on demand, probably at a premium cost. I can't see that
    happening in NZ.

    Until the infrastructure is there (and it will probably
    come) massive bandwidth is a waste of money.

    Cheers,

    Cliff

    --

    Barzoomian the Martian - http://barzoomian.blogspot.com
    Enkidu, Apr 25, 2005
    #7
  8. Bling-Bling

    Enkidu Guest

    Bling-Bling wrote:
    > On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 20:41:09 +0000, Matthew Poole wrote:
    >
    >> Much as I hate to be seen as possibly supporting our
    >> crap network infrastructure, where in NZ could you
    >> find 800,000 households in the same land area
    >> as Hong Kong, let alone 2.2 million?

    >
    > With fibre optic cabling, the population density doesn't
    > matter all that much - because the distribution network
    > could be (is?) modeled just like the Internet, with nodes
    > and backbones in various places.
    >

    The backbone routers (and all other routers on the network)
    would have to be upgraded to multi-gigabit and that is
    expensive.

    Cheers,

    Cliff

    --

    Barzoomian the Martian - http://barzoomian.blogspot.com
    Enkidu, Apr 25, 2005
    #8
  9. In article <L8Vae.1090$>, "JedMeister" <> wrote:
    >
    >"Matthew Poole" <> wrote in message
    >news:d4h3pk$dnf$...

    *SNIP*
    >Take that attitude and NZ would be 3rd world in all regards.
    >

    Go blow a goat. My record on this is well documented in this forum.

    --
    Matthew Poole
    "Veni, vidi, velcro...
    I came, I saw, I stuck around"

    My real e-mail is mattATp00leDOTnet
    Matthew Poole, Apr 25, 2005
    #9
  10. In article <pan.2005.04.25.07.17.40.431207@TRACKER>, Bling-Bling <> wrote:
    >On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 13:24:57 +1200, Enkidu wrote:

    *SNIP*
    >> The backbone routers (and all other routers on the network)
    >> would have to be upgraded to multi-gigabit and that is
    >> expensive.

    >
    >I don't agree.
    >

    Oh, don't you just?

    >My LAN at home is entirely gigabit ethernet. My GigE switch can handle
    >multi-gigabit quantities of data going through it simultaniously between
    >all 5 computers (obviously not all going to or from the one computer).
    >

    You've tested this? You've passed files that are hundreds of meg in
    size, simultaneously, between multiple machines?

    >If the technology already exist to cheaply do GigE at home then the means
    >be also there to provide similar functionality over an ISP's WAN.
    >

    *SNIP*
    Do you have any idea how much carrier-class equipment costs? We're not
    just talking about a pretend switch with a few RJ45 ports that carries
    ethernet end-to-end.
    As an example of the costs involved, a switch capable of carrying 52
    gig-E fibre ports, all operating at full speed, will happily chew up six
    figures of capital expenditure. Dinky little modular, unmanaged
    switches don't cut it, carriers use modular, rack-mount, managed
    hardware with hot-swap cards and multiple controllers. It's EXPENSIVE
    to do it properly, and if you're going to offer this kind of service
    properly is the only way to do it.

    --
    Matthew Poole
    "Veni, vidi, velcro...
    I came, I saw, I stuck around"

    My real e-mail is mattATp00leDOTnet
    Matthew Poole, Apr 25, 2005
    #10
  11. In article <aG0be.1178$>, "Jedmeister" <> wrote:
    >"Matthew Poole" <> wrote in message
    >news:d4hltu$hvi$...

    *SNIP*
    >People like you have no idea.
    >

    Oh, is that so? You've played with ISP- and telco-level hardware I take
    it?

    >Have you every lived overseas? Probably not by your narrow minded comments.
    >

    Actually, yes. I've also played this game at the carrier level. I know
    what the hardware costs are like.
    Fibre is cheap. The hardware to support symmetric gig-to-the-home is
    very definitely not. Wireless cannot even do 100Mb/s yet, let alone
    gig, and certainly can't do bi-di gig to multiple points simultaneously.
    That leaves terrestrial, which needs to be fibre. That requires a
    massive investment in the hardware needed to terminate, route and switch
    hundreds or thousands of connections. A city the size of Auckland
    wouldn't give much change out of a large chunk of nine figures.

    --
    Matthew Poole
    "Veni, vidi, velcro...
    I came, I saw, I stuck around"

    My real e-mail is mattATp00leDOTnet
    Matthew Poole, Apr 25, 2005
    #11
  12. Bling-Bling

    Jedmeister Guest

    "Matthew Poole" <> wrote in message
    news:d4hltu$hvi$...
    > In article <L8Vae.1090$>, "JedMeister"
    > <> wrote:
    >>
    >>"Matthew Poole" <> wrote in message
    >>news:d4h3pk$dnf$...

    > *SNIP*
    >>Take that attitude and NZ would be 3rd world in all regards.
    >>

    > Go blow a goat. My record on this is well documented in this forum.
    >

    People like you have no idea.

    Have you every lived overseas? Probably not by your narrow minded comments.
    Jedmeister, Apr 25, 2005
    #12
  13. Bling-Bling

    Jedmeister Guest

    "Enkidu" <> wrote in message
    news:426c4547$...
    > Bling-Bling wrote:
    > >
    >> Gigabit Symmetric broadband launched in Hongkong!
    >>

    > The question is, why? At that rate you could download 1GB every 8 seconds.
    > 60GB in 8 minutes. You could fill most hard disks within an hour.
    >
    > The only use would be streaming, but even then it would be unlikely that
    > you could anywhere near that unless your ntwork connection service
    > supplied things like video or fims on demand, probably at a premium cost.
    > I can't see that happening in NZ.
    >
    > Until the infrastructure is there (and it will probably come) massive
    > bandwidth is a waste of money.
    >
    > Cheers,
    >
    > Cliff


    Which came first? The chicken or the egg? Applications would quickly popup
    that could use that extra bandwidth.
    Jedmeister, Apr 25, 2005
    #13
  14. In article <pan.2005.04.25.07.53.50.351126@TRACKER>, Bling-Bling <> wrote:
    >On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 06:40:49 +0000, Matthew Poole wrote:

    *SNIP*
    >> You've tested this? You've passed files that are hundreds of meg in
    >> size, simultaneously, between multiple machines?

    >
    >Yes.
    >
    >BTW, my switch is a managed/programable switch. I've stuck it out with my
    >router and my server because of the fan noise.
    >

    And that cost you how much? Several hundred dollars would be my guess.
    It's a far cry from a managed switch for SOHO to a carrier-grade,
    chassis-based one suitable for use in a network that will likely end up
    replacing the traditional telco network - in other words, it must be
    able to achieve the five nines, if not better, and do it for years on
    end.

    --
    Matthew Poole
    "Veni, vidi, velcro...
    I came, I saw, I stuck around"

    My real e-mail is mattATp00leDOTnet
    Matthew Poole, Apr 25, 2005
    #14
  15. In article <pan.2005.04.25.07.57.12.395756@TRACKER>, Bling-Bling <> wrote:
    >On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 06:45:03 +0000, Matthew Poole wrote:

    *SNIP*
    >There is fibre optic cabling to within 8 feet of my home.
    >
    >I know this - I saw it being installed.
    >

    Connected to what, exactly?
    Fibre is, as I said, cheap. It's now cheaper, metre-for-metre, than
    copper. The cost is in the termination equipment, be it routing or
    switching. Multiply the switching requirement by hundreds of ports, and
    it gets really expensive, really quickly.

    --
    Matthew Poole
    "Veni, vidi, velcro...
    I came, I saw, I stuck around"

    My real e-mail is mattATp00leDOTnet
    Matthew Poole, Apr 25, 2005
    #15
  16. Bling-Bling

    Bling-Bling Guest

    On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 13:24:57 +1200, Enkidu wrote:

    >> With fibre optic cabling, the population density doesn't
    > > matter all that much - because the distribution network
    > > could be (is?) modeled just like the Internet, with nodes
    > > and backbones in various places.
    >>

    > The backbone routers (and all other routers on the network)
    > would have to be upgraded to multi-gigabit and that is
    > expensive.


    I don't agree.

    My LAN at home is entirely gigabit ethernet. My GigE switch can handle
    multi-gigabit quantities of data going through it simultaniously between
    all 5 computers (obviously not all going to or from the one computer).

    If the technology already exist to cheaply do GigE at home then the means
    be also there to provide similar functionality over an ISP's WAN.

    The technology is already there with multi-gigabit bandwidth currently
    going unused between NZ, Australia, and the USA.

    All that is presently missing is the WILL to provide this service for a
    reasonable flat-rate fee!


    Bling Bling

    --
    IBM: "Linux is not just another operating system. It represents a
    collaboration of the best programmers in the industry coming together to
    create an operating system that works on any hardware platform."
    Bling-Bling, Apr 25, 2005
    #16
  17. In article <426caa9f$>, Stewart Fleming <> wrote:
    >
    >Matthew Poole wrote:
    >

    *SNIP*
    >There IS a fair amount of high-level gear out there (via TradeMe etc)
    >that makes me wonder if Gigabit networking is not out of reach of a
    >concerted small community effort (leave metro to Telcos and other
    >consortia).


    Oh, there surely is. But that's small-scale and you definitely couldn't
    support symmetric gig with any kind of reliability. Not to mention the
    minor issue of then linking that back out to the real world. No point
    having a massive pipe into your bedroom if you're using ISDN to connect
    to the world - it'd be like drawing from a fire hydrant with a garden
    hose in order to feed the 90mm hose that's going out the other side.

    The thing people forget is that it's not just the infrastructure to
    connect your clients to you, it's also the infrastructure to connect you
    to the world. And OC-48 (or higher) ATM cards don't come cheaply. Nor
    do the routers that you plug them into.

    --
    Matthew Poole
    "Veni, vidi, velcro...
    I came, I saw, I stuck around"

    My real e-mail is mattATp00leDOTnet
    Matthew Poole, Apr 25, 2005
    #17
  18. In article <pan.2005.04.25.08.32.25.860726@TRACKER>, Bling-Bling <> wrote:
    >On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 07:15:56 +0000, Matthew Poole wrote:
    >
    >>>There is fibre optic cabling to within 8 feet of my home.
    >>>
    >>>I know this - I saw it being installed.
    >>>

    >> Connected to what, exactly?

    >
    >The (Saturn) telephone and cable infrastructure within the building.
    >

    And at the other end? The end that matters. The end that delivers your
    gig-to-the-home connection to you and all your neighbours.

    --
    Matthew Poole
    "Veni, vidi, velcro...
    I came, I saw, I stuck around"

    My real e-mail is mattATp00leDOTnet
    Matthew Poole, Apr 25, 2005
    #18
  19. In article <pan.2005.04.25.08.42.40.50416@TRACKER>, Bling-Bling <> wrote:
    >On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 07:37:53 +0000, Matthew Poole wrote:
    >
    >>>> Connected to what, exactly?
    >>>
    >>>The (Saturn) telephone and cable infrastructure within the building.
    >>>

    >> And at the other end? The end that matters. The end that delivers your
    >> gig-to-the-home connection to you and all your neighbours.

    >
    >Um...
    >
    >Both ends matter.
    >
    >The (de)multiplexing happens at both ends.
    >

    And it doesn't connect to the massive core equipment required to support
    symmetric gig. There's no call for it, thus it's not installed.
    Plus cable isn't ethernet, so the equipment isn't necessarily compatible
    in the first place. Cable is incapable of delivering speeds that high,
    it's not designed for it. Gig-E is, surprise surprise, delivered over
    ethernet, which means that providing you with gig-to-the-home would
    require replacement of the hardware at both ends of the link.

    --
    Matthew Poole
    "Veni, vidi, velcro...
    I came, I saw, I stuck around"

    My real e-mail is mattATp00leDOTnet
    Matthew Poole, Apr 25, 2005
    #19
  20. Bling-Bling

    Bling-Bling Guest

    On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 06:40:49 +0000, Matthew Poole wrote:

    >>My LAN at home is entirely gigabit ethernet. My GigE switch can handle
    >>multi-gigabit quantities of data going through it simultaniously between
    >>all 5 computers (obviously not all going to or from the one computer).
    >>

    > You've tested this? You've passed files that are hundreds of meg in
    > size, simultaneously, between multiple machines?


    Yes.

    BTW, my switch is a managed/programable switch. I've stuck it out with my
    router and my server because of the fan noise.


    Bling Bling

    --
    IBM: "Linux is not just another operating system. It represents a
    collaboration of the best programmers in the industry coming together to
    create an operating system that works on any hardware platform."
    Bling-Bling, Apr 25, 2005
    #20
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