Getting into Wedding Photography?

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by John Ortt, Aug 19, 2005.

  1. John Ortt

    John Ortt Guest

    Hi All,

    After taking some amateur photographs for friends weddings I have produced
    some very pleasing results which has encouraged me to develop my skills to
    become a professional wedding photographer.

    I am already highly proficient in Photoshop and PSP thanks to a design
    degree but I only started taking an interest in photography a couple of
    years ago.

    I have enrolled in a diploma course run over one year starting in September
    which I hope will improve my shots but I am keen on anyone elses advice on
    what to do and what equipment to start building up.

    I am currently using a 300D with the EF-S 17-85 lens as I feel it gives a
    good zoom range for wedding situations. The wide angle is useful for group
    shots and the zoom is good enough to get up-close and personnal candid shots
    of people some distance away. A prime lens would probrably be best suited
    to the staged shots but I don't have one yet.

    My complete list of equipment at present is:
    EOS 300D
    EF-S 17-85 1:4.5-5.5 IS
    Kit Lens (EF-S 18-55 1:3.5-5.5)
    EF 35-80 (This lens in conjunction with the one above act as a backup for
    the 17-85 lens)
    4 x CF cards (1GB, 128mb, 64mb, 32mb)
    1 x Microdrive 2.2GB
    1 x std battery
    Basic Tripod
    Old (1970's) Flash (Which I can't get to work with the 300D very well
    at-all)
    Laptop & card reader

    I think the essential additionnal items of equipment I would require prior
    to taking on a wedding are:

    Another body (Incase of equipment failure), pref 20D or 350D for the extra
    functionality and Res
    Additionnal (charged) batteries &/or a pro battery pack
    A Cannon EX flash (any suggestions)

    In the long run and as my skills develop I would like a full frame DSLR but
    I think a 300/350D is adequate for the time being, provided they don't want
    prints any bigger than A4.

    Any thoughts or ideas would be gratefully recieved.

    Thanks,

    John
     
    John Ortt, Aug 19, 2005
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. John Ortt wrote:
    > Hi All,
    >
    > After taking some amateur photographs for friends weddings I have
    > produced some very pleasing results which has encouraged me to
    > develop my skills to become a professional wedding photographer.
    >
    > I am already highly proficient in Photoshop and PSP thanks to a design
    > degree but I only started taking an interest in photography a couple
    > of years ago.
    >
    > I have enrolled in a diploma course run over one year starting in
    > September which I hope will improve my shots but I am keen on anyone
    > elses advice on what to do and what equipment to start building up.
    >
    > I am currently using a 300D with the EF-S 17-85 lens as I feel it
    > gives a good zoom range for wedding situations. The wide angle is
    > useful for group shots and the zoom is good enough to get up-close
    > and personnal candid shots of people some distance away. A prime
    > lens would probrably be best suited to the staged shots but I don't
    > have one yet.
    > My complete list of equipment at present is:
    > EOS 300D
    > EF-S 17-85 1:4.5-5.5 IS
    > Kit Lens (EF-S 18-55 1:3.5-5.5)
    > EF 35-80 (This lens in conjunction with the one above act as a backup
    > for the 17-85 lens)
    > 4 x CF cards (1GB, 128mb, 64mb, 32mb)
    > 1 x Microdrive 2.2GB
    > 1 x std battery
    > Basic Tripod
    > Old (1970's) Flash (Which I can't get to work with the 300D very well
    > at-all)
    > Laptop & card reader
    >
    > I think the essential additionnal items of equipment I would require
    > prior to taking on a wedding are:
    >
    > Another body (Incase of equipment failure), pref 20D or 350D for the
    > extra functionality and Res
    > Additionnal (charged) batteries &/or a pro battery pack
    > A Cannon EX flash (any suggestions)
    >
    > In the long run and as my skills develop I would like a full frame
    > DSLR but I think a 300/350D is adequate for the time being, provided
    > they don't want prints any bigger than A4.
    >
    > Any thoughts or ideas would be gratefully recieved.
    >
    > Thanks,
    >
    > John


    I would suggest checking locally with photographers who do weddings.
    See if one of them will take you on as an assistant to one of their regular
    photographers. This is a lot to the business that can best be learned on
    the job.

    --
    Joseph Meehan

    Dia duit
     
    Joseph Meehan, Aug 19, 2005
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. In article <4305bf6f$>, John Ortt
    <> wrote:

    > Any thoughts or ideas would be gratefully recieved.


    Professional photography is not about the hardware. You would do well
    to learn about lighting and posing, get the damned light off the camera
    and use at least two lights for formals...and then learn about
    business.
     
    Randall Ainsworth, Aug 19, 2005
    #3
  4. John Ortt

    Canongirly Guest

    Get a job with a working pro wedding photographer as an assistant (proberbly
    unpaid...but what they'll teach you will earn you $$$$$$ in the future).

    Gears fine, but talent and biz sense are what makes for a career bud.

    Oh and yes GET THE DAMN FLASH OFF THE CAMERA..jeez.


    "John Ortt" <> wrote in message
    news:4305bf6f$...
    > Hi All,
    >
    > After taking some amateur photographs for friends weddings I have produced
    > some very pleasing results which has encouraged me to develop my skills to
    > become a professional wedding photographer.
    >
    > I am already highly proficient in Photoshop and PSP thanks to a design
    > degree but I only started taking an interest in photography a couple of
    > years ago.
    >
    > I have enrolled in a diploma course run over one year starting in
    > September which I hope will improve my shots but I am keen on anyone elses
    > advice on what to do and what equipment to start building up.
    >
    > I am currently using a 300D with the EF-S 17-85 lens as I feel it gives a
    > good zoom range for wedding situations. The wide angle is useful for
    > group shots and the zoom is good enough to get up-close and personnal
    > candid shots of people some distance away. A prime lens would probrably
    > be best suited to the staged shots but I don't have one yet.
    >
    > My complete list of equipment at present is:
    > EOS 300D
    > EF-S 17-85 1:4.5-5.5 IS
    > Kit Lens (EF-S 18-55 1:3.5-5.5)
    > EF 35-80 (This lens in conjunction with the one above act as a backup for
    > the 17-85 lens)
    > 4 x CF cards (1GB, 128mb, 64mb, 32mb)
    > 1 x Microdrive 2.2GB
    > 1 x std battery
    > Basic Tripod
    > Old (1970's) Flash (Which I can't get to work with the 300D very well
    > at-all)
    > Laptop & card reader
    >
    > I think the essential additionnal items of equipment I would require prior
    > to taking on a wedding are:
    >
    > Another body (Incase of equipment failure), pref 20D or 350D for the extra
    > functionality and Res
    > Additionnal (charged) batteries &/or a pro battery pack
    > A Cannon EX flash (any suggestions)
    >
    > In the long run and as my skills develop I would like a full frame DSLR
    > but I think a 300/350D is adequate for the time being, provided they don't
    > want prints any bigger than A4.
    >
    > Any thoughts or ideas would be gratefully recieved.
    >
    > Thanks,
    >
    > John
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
     
    Canongirly, Aug 19, 2005
    #4
  5. John Ortt

    John Ortt Guest

    Was: Getting into Wedding Photography? Now: Flashguns?

    Ok, Joseph and Canongirly have both slapped my wrist for not having a proper
    flash on my 300D :)

    Does anyone have any suggestions please?

    Should I go for a Canon or should I try a respected (but cheaper)
    alternative such as Sigma?
    Do I buy new or should I try Used equipment?
    I have heard a lot of talk about the 300D being very fussy wrt flash
    photography....what does this entail?

    Another thing mentioned was to "get the flash off the camera". By this I
    assume they mean to use a flash on an arm so that the light doesn't bounce
    straight back into the lens. What is the best way of doing this?
    On older cameras I have seen ruberised cords which connect to the shoe and
    allow the flash to be up to approx 1m away but newer setups are using the
    remote controlled flashes which I assume work on radio control and as such
    should be able to work much farther away.

    In short what are my options, how much will each one cost and what will each
    allow me to do?

    Thanks in advance,

    John
     
    John Ortt, Aug 19, 2005
    #5
  6. John Ortt

    John Ortt Guest


    > I would suggest checking locally with photographers who do weddings.
    > See if one of them will take you on as an assistant to one of their
    > regular photographers. This is a lot to the business that can best be
    > learned on the job.


    I did considder this Joseph but I didn't think anybody would be interested
    as they would potentially be giving away all their trade secrets and maybe
    one day creating a competitor!

    I suppose I might well get taken on pro-gratis as Canongirly suggested which
    would suit me fine.
    I might also be able to give something back as I'm pretty swish on Photoshop
    if I do say so myself and I could potentially do page layouts and or web
    content for them.......

    Hmmmm....think I'll be picking up the phone tomorrow :)
     
    John Ortt, Aug 19, 2005
    #6
  7. John Ortt

    DLGlos Guest

    On Fri, 19 Aug 2005 05:49:31 -0700, Randall Ainsworth
    <> wrote:

    >In article <4305bf6f$>, John Ortt
    ><> wrote:
    >
    >> Any thoughts or ideas would be gratefully recieved.

    >
    >Professional photography is not about the hardware. You would do well
    >to learn about lighting and posing, get the damned light off the camera
    >and use at least two lights for formals...and then learn about
    >business.


    I did this for a few years, after assisting a local wedding
    photographer for a couple of years before that. It really isn't about
    equipment, as long as you have enough (at least two of everything
    important: cameras, flashes, light meters, sync cords, lenses), nor
    about photographic skill, as long as you aren't a hack. What its
    really about is working cooly under pressure, managing often rude and
    inconsiderate people (generally not the bride and groom, but other is
    the wedding, their families, and other vendors providing services for
    the wedding), dealing with tight deadlines and sometimes crappy
    locations (brides get all their ideas from glossy magizines, and don't
    like hearing that you can't make their wedding, which is being held at
    a facility which resembles Walmart, look like it was shot at
    Westminster Cathedral), and keeping a smile on you face.

    Don't get me wrong, if you have the people chops, most of the gigs can
    be kinda fun, although there is always one or two a season that you
    wish you had never taken.

    Finally, if you are still thinking about what it takes to make a great
    shot, you aren't ready yet. The mechanics of photography need to be at
    the instinct level before proceeding. Woodshed for a year, or two, as
    an assistant. The pay sucks, but you will learn the ropes.

    DLGlos
     
    DLGlos, Aug 19, 2005
    #7
  8. John Ortt

    Flavius Guest

    1. Don't carry a spare camera body, carry TWO spare camera bodies! I learned
    this lesson the hard way. I grant you the odds of two bodies going down on
    the same shoot are pretty long, but it CAN happen. Keep one LOCKED in the
    vehicle (OUT OF SIGHT) and the other either on your person or with your
    assistant.

    2. You can't have too spare many batteries. See http://www.aljacobs.com ,
    some of the best flash rigs and batteries around. Lots of great advice too.

    3. Once you are done being an assistant to a wedding photographer, hire one
    of your own. Better yet, hire two and let them compete for the position
    (with LOTS of POSITIVE feedback and encouragement). Alternate them at shoots
    until you find one who is RELIABLE.

    4. Never forget St. Murphy and his laws, if you do, he is sure to show up
    with his tricks.

    5. Sometimes you just have to shoot film. I know lots of people on the list
    will disagree ,but digital photography, in my opinion, still has a bit of
    growing up to do. Mind you, I shoot mostly digital, the cost savings are too
    great too ignore. Also sometimes customers EXPECT a medium format camera,
    especially customers who "know" just enough about photography to be
    "dangerous". My big old honkin' Mamiya RB67 has made some GREAT portraits in
    situations where the digital would not have performed nearly as well.
    Granted I don't haul it out to often but it IS reliable. One of our local
    churches looks more like a CAVE than anything else and they DO NOT allow
    flash!

    6. HAVE A CONTRACT !!!!! Spell it out, spell it ALL out, every last detail.
    You'll thank me later.

    7.Don't be afraid to charge the BIG DOLLARS for your work. It's amazing how
    much "better" the SAME picture looks when the customer is paying "real"
    dollars instead of bargin prices.

    8. HAVE FUN! I've been to weddings that seemed more like a funeral than you
    can imagine. However YOUR mood will often reflect in your work. The
    "interchange" between photographer and subject is vital to getting the right
    "look". If every body is having a blast it WILL show in the pictures. Happy
    pictures mean LOTS of sales after the fact, not only to the happy couple,
    but also to friends and relatives.

    9. NEVER let go of the originals or the copyrights. If they absolutely
    insist then don't be afraid to price it as close as possible to what you
    expect to make in after event sales. These sales "down the road" are the
    gravy that makes all of this trouble worthwhile, don't give it away cheap.

    10. Deal with the BRIDE and ONLY the BRIDE. Wedding coordinators are NOT
    photographers. Relatives are usually not photographers. Ministers are not
    photographers. This is "her day" and the Bride should know exactly what she
    wants and what she should expect from you. When things go wrong the
    transformation from "blushing bride" to MEGABRIDE THE DESTROYER can be an
    amazing and fearsome experience. Being prepared and communicating are the
    only ways to prevent this transformation.

    11. Shoot LOTS of pictures ALL the time, even of other stuff. Practice makes
    perfect and being QUICK with your camera is essential to grabbing those
    fleeting moments at the wedding.

    12. Canon and Nikon are both great. Though I think current crop of Canons
    are superior. However I use Olympus equipment. First because their cameras
    are DURABLE, second because the price is right. For now, for me at least,
    they do a fine job. Once the digital camera industry has matured a bit more,
    say four or five years, I will likely switch to a Canon or Nikon though I
    hope their prices come down to something more reasonable.






    "John Ortt" <> wrote in message
    news:4305bf6f$...
    > Hi All,
    >
    > After taking some amateur photographs for friends weddings I have produced
    > some very pleasing results which has encouraged me to develop my skills to
    > become a professional wedding photographer.

    <<<< snip
     
    Flavius, Aug 19, 2005
    #8
  9. John Ortt

    wilt Guest

    About equipment...
    Get more CF memory...you won't have time to upload pictures from CF
    to PC fast enough at times. And be sure to upload two copies of
    pictures taken into two different places (may one set on a USB
    harddrive) for redundancy.
    Get a flash unit which can be used with a Quantum Turbo battery or
    equivalent...you need your flash to recycle FAAST, not wait for the
    damn thing all the time for another shot.
    Get a rotating flash bracket which will position the flash unit HIGH
    above the lens so that shadows are hidden behind the subject (and not
    visible out to their side!), and which allows the flash to be rotated
    to stay above the lens even when you change from landscape to portrait
    layout for the shot.
    Get a flash unit which you can slave to the light on camera, mounted
    on a light stand and set to be the highlight, so you can use the
    on-camera as fill.
    Get a radio slave, or you will have family and friends triggering
    your on-stand flash and eating up its batteries!!!
    Get a handheld flash meter to do incident light readings rather than
    trying to use reflective readings which are so easily fooled by white
    wedding dress or the dark tux for your portraits. (Yes, you can shoot
    and look at histograms and then adjust, but it is faster to pre-meter
    for formals and portraits and set things right the first time!!!)

    About technique and business...
    Get to the point where technically everything is instinctive...so
    that you don't have to slowly think of how to best handle a certain
    lighting situation, and how to best pose people so they don't look fat.
    You will have NO TIME to puzzle your way thru.
    Be nice, not overbearing. It is THEIR wedding, after all, not
    YOURS! I hate photographers who are overly obtrusive and too
    controlling. So do the wedding party!!!
    Get to know the timing and sequence of weddings. That will help
    you to plan for what's next, not react for what's next. And it will
    also help you to be the Guide, as all too often the MC/DJ is a fool who
    only knows how to cue up the next song, and as the photographer you are
    expected to know what comes next (to guide the party thru the sequence)
    For weddings of cultures you are not familiar with, ASK IN ADVANCE
    for the wedding party/family to tell you what happens and when, where
    you need to be ready to grab shots.
    Provide a list of possible shots to the bride at time of booking,
    ask her to indicate which shots are important to get, and then be sure
    you FOLLOW the list and do every one of the shots she asks for!
    When you can, shoot at least three of each shot...someone is always
    blinking, drooling, or looking stupid.
     
    wilt, Aug 19, 2005
    #9
  10. John Ortt

    DLGlos Guest

    Re: Was: Getting into Wedding Photography? Now: Flashguns?

    On Fri, 19 Aug 2005 15:08:56 +0100, "John Ortt"
    <> wrote:

    >Ok, Joseph and Canongirly have both slapped my wrist for not having a proper
    >flash on my 300D :)
    >
    >Does anyone have any suggestions please?
    >
    >Should I go for a Canon or should I try a respected (but cheaper)
    >alternative such as Sigma?
    >Do I buy new or should I try Used equipment?
    >I have heard a lot of talk about the 300D being very fussy wrt flash
    >photography....what does this entail?
    >
    >Another thing mentioned was to "get the flash off the camera". By this I
    >assume they mean to use a flash on an arm so that the light doesn't bounce
    >straight back into the lens. What is the best way of doing this?
    >On older cameras I have seen ruberised cords which connect to the shoe and
    >allow the flash to be up to approx 1m away but newer setups are using the
    >remote controlled flashes which I assume work on radio control and as such
    >should be able to work much farther away.
    >
    >In short what are my options, how much will each one cost and what will each
    >allow me to do?
    >
    >Thanks in advance,
    >
    >John


    Either stick with Canon, or go with one of the wedding/pro specialty
    units (I used Quantum T2's, when I shot film and they still work, in
    Auto mode, not TTL, with my D100). BTW, you need at least 2 of them.
    The Quantum's, with Turbo battery, where around $600 ea, and that was
    10 years ago. On the other hand, I use a Nikon SB28dx, filled with the
    latest 2500mAH NiMH's, and can generally get through a whole event on
    one set of batteries. That said, I ALWAYS carry at least three extra,
    fully charged sets with me.

    There are a bunch of brackets out there, and virtually every
    wedding/event photographer will have his camera on one. IMO, Newton
    and Custom Brackets make the nicest. For handheld use, the flash
    rotator variety is fine, but for your group shots, you are going to
    want your camera on a tripod, and will need a camera rotator type
    bracket.

    Its totally "mickie mouse" to shoot groups without a tripod. While you
    are posing the group, your assistant moves the camera/tripod, and
    frames the shot. When you step back to the camera, all that should be
    left to deal is confirm focus, and take the shot. If its taking longer
    than that, you wedding party is going to get impatient. Typically, I
    had 30 minutes, after the ceremony, to take anywhere between 60-90
    shots. At least 1-2 rolls of the bride and groom together, and the
    rest of the various groups that were agreed upon. The post-ceremony
    groups are the most stressful part of the day. Everybody wants to get
    out of the church/facility, and get to the party and nobody has any
    patience. However, you better get this part right because at least 50%
    of your sales will come from this perioud of shooting.

    BTW, you haven't even talked about a backdrop and portable studio
    lighting kit. Some brides like this look, and sometimes weather and
    circumstances conspire and you will have to use one regardless if it
    was the first choice. Also, the guy I used to shoot for and I offered
    "free" engagement photos, generally shot in the studio. Great way to
    show them your work, and see what they are like to work/interact with,
    and real cost to you is minimal.

    As it has been said before, find another pro, or two, to assist. You
    might also find yourself shooting for that person after a year or two
    of assisting.

    DLGlos
     
    DLGlos, Aug 19, 2005
    #10
  11. John Ortt

    Guest

    Expect payment problems - unless you get up-front payment! One of the
    guys on my street dabbled in wedding photography - and constantly got
    burned by nonpaying clients; he ended up with quite a fleet of used
    cars he took in compromise payment from them.

    Browse this gun show for FREE! Shop the
    http://stores.ebay.com/INTERNET-GUN-SHOW
     
    , Aug 19, 2005
    #11
  12. John Ortt

    DLGlos Guest

    On 19 Aug 2005 11:04:00 -0700, ""
    <> wrote:

    >Expect payment problems - unless you get up-front payment! One of the
    >guys on my street dabbled in wedding photography - and constantly got
    >burned by nonpaying clients; he ended up with quite a fleet of used
    >cars he took in compromise payment from them.
    >
    >Browse this gun show for FREE! Shop the
    >http://stores.ebay.com/INTERNET-GUN-SHOW


    My standard, back when I was shooting more regular, was 1/3 due at
    signing, 1/3 due on the wedding date, and the final 1/3 to get the
    proof book. NEVER EVER release images prior to payment in full, no
    matter how much they balk. Kroger's and Walmart won't let out of their
    stores without paying; why should photography be any different.

    Final rule, from a local good guy that I used to assist, NEVER EVER
    shoot a wedding for a relative.
     
    DLGlos, Aug 19, 2005
    #12
  13. John Ortt wrote:
    >> I would suggest checking locally with photographers who do
    >> weddings. See if one of them will take you on as an assistant to one
    >> of their regular photographers. This is a lot to the business that
    >> can best be learned on the job.

    >
    > I did considder this Joseph but I didn't think anybody would be
    > interested as they would potentially be giving away all their trade
    > secrets and maybe one day creating a competitor!
    >
    > I suppose I might well get taken on pro-gratis as Canongirly
    > suggested which would suit me fine.
    > I might also be able to give something back as I'm pretty swish on
    > Photoshop if I do say so myself and I could potentially do page
    > layouts and or web content for them.......
    >
    > Hmmmm....think I'll be picking up the phone tomorrow :)


    Don't do it for free. I would have never hired anyone if they were
    offering to do it for free. As an assistant you should be performing a
    useful task and you deserve your pay. (if you think you are worth nothing,
    why would you think anyone else would think any different?)

    The photographer knows that some people who start with them will go into
    business on their own. The established pro has the advantage over you in
    that they are known, people tell other people they are in the yellow pages
    etc. They are not too worried about you taking their business and to do
    their business they need people working for them. They likely will hope you
    will learn enough to go it alone and then they can take you on as the
    photographer rather than the helper.

    Be honest with what you know and what you want to learn. Listen to
    what they teach.


    --
    Joseph Meehan

    Dia duit
     
    Joseph Meehan, Aug 19, 2005
    #13
  14. Re: Getting into Wedding Photography? Now: Flashguns?

    John Ortt wrote:
    > Ok, Joseph and Canongirly have both slapped my wrist for not having a
    > proper flash on my 300D :)
    >
    > Does anyone have any suggestions please?


    I am out of the business so I don't really know the models. However the
    wedding photographer needs POWER and FAST RECYCLE time and more RELIABILITY
    than you are likely to find. That means you carry two of everything.
    Murphy Law applies here.

    BTW when I was working in the retail end at a large department store the
    daughter of the VP got married and they hired the store photographer to
    cover it. They sent one of their better photographers to cover it. They
    should have sent two and one of them should have been a non-drinker (anyone
    hiring a wedding photographer would consider a non-drinker an asset.). The
    guy got drunk and shoot 8 rolls of film on the same roll.

    I got the job of working with the mother of the bride (wife of the VP)
    to put together an album. After collecting each and every photo taken by
    anyone we were able to put together a good, not great album.

    >
    > Should I go for a Canon or should I try a respected (but cheaper)
    > alternative such as Sigma?
    > Do I buy new or should I try Used equipment?
    > I have heard a lot of talk about the 300D being very fussy wrt flash
    > photography....what does this entail?
    >
    > Another thing mentioned was to "get the flash off the camera". By
    > this I assume they mean to use a flash on an arm so that the light
    > doesn't bounce straight back into the lens. What is the best way of
    > doing this? On older cameras I have seen ruberised cords which connect to
    > the
    > shoe and allow the flash to be up to approx 1m away but newer setups
    > are using the remote controlled flashes which I assume work on radio
    > control and as such should be able to work much farther away.
    >
    > In short what are my options, how much will each one cost and what
    > will each allow me to do?
    >
    > Thanks in advance,
    >
    > John


    --
    Joseph Meehan

    Dia duit
     
    Joseph Meehan, Aug 19, 2005
    #14
  15. John Ortt

    pixby Guest

    Randall Ainsworth wrote:
    > In article <4305bf6f$>, John Ortt
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Any thoughts or ideas would be gratefully recieved.

    >
    >
    > Professional photography is not about the hardware. You would do well
    > to learn about lighting and posing, get the damned light off the camera
    > and use at least two lights for formals...and then learn about
    > business.


    As usual Randall has posted a clearly invaluable reply!
    He is of course absolutely right. Why buy a camera when you have so many
    other fine tools available to make Wedding pictures? Did Rembrandt use a
    camera?

    I'm not sure what sort of light he uses to make his photos with.
    Probably the light from his bright ideas. It would match his thumbnail
    dipped in tar approach to answering your question.

    --
    Douglas,
    You never really make it on the 'net
    until you get your own personal Troll.
    Mine's called Chrlz. Don't feed him, he bites!
     
    pixby, Aug 19, 2005
    #15
  16. John Ortt

    wilt Guest

    >My standard, back when I was shooting more regular, was 1/3 due at
    >signing, 1/3 due on the wedding date, and the final 1/3 to get the
    >proof book.


    That was my payment staging as well, when I was still doing weddings
    regularly.
     
    wilt, Aug 19, 2005
    #16
  17. John Ortt

    Skip M Guest

    Re: Getting into Wedding Photography? Now: Flashguns?

    "John Ortt" <> wrote in message
    news:4305e5a1$...
    > Ok, Joseph and Canongirly have both slapped my wrist for not having a
    > proper flash on my 300D :)
    >
    > Does anyone have any suggestions please?
    >
    > Should I go for a Canon or should I try a respected (but cheaper)
    > alternative such as Sigma?
    > Do I buy new or should I try Used equipment?
    > I have heard a lot of talk about the 300D being very fussy wrt flash
    > photography....what does this entail?
    >
    > Another thing mentioned was to "get the flash off the camera". By this I
    > assume they mean to use a flash on an arm so that the light doesn't bounce
    > straight back into the lens. What is the best way of doing this?
    > On older cameras I have seen ruberised cords which connect to the shoe and
    > allow the flash to be up to approx 1m away but newer setups are using the
    > remote controlled flashes which I assume work on radio control and as such
    > should be able to work much farther away.
    >
    > In short what are my options, how much will each one cost and what will
    > each allow me to do?
    >
    > Thanks in advance,
    >
    > John
    >
    >

    It's a good thing you're sitting down already, because the cost of equipment
    might knock you off of your feet. We have found, for the best, most
    consistent results, that the Canon flashes don't do the job, nor do Sigma,
    Sunpak, etc. E-TTL II is the culprit, not only with your 300D, but with our
    20Ds. The best flashes we've found for the job are Quantum T4d, with Turbo
    battery packs. The combination runs just a tick under $1000. Each. And
    you need at least 2 battery packs for each flash, at $500 more, per. The
    bright spot in this is, if you live in a metropolitan area, these things are
    often available for rent, for about $25 a day.
    And, when Canongirly said, "Oh and yes GET THE DAMN FLASH OFF THE
    CAMERA..jeez." she meant you need to buy a flash bracket to lift the flash
    off of the camera's hot shoe. The best one we've found, at least for the
    price, is the Stroboframe Pro-T, which will pivot the flash to keep it over
    the lens when you switch from horizontal to vertical orientation. About
    $100. This one is the least expensive one that doesn't put the controls in
    an awkward position when the camera is held vertically, unlike the
    FlipFrame, which will put the shutter button at the bottom, or cover the
    controls on the grip, if you have one.
    Also, f2.8 lenses are a necessity, something we've learned by experience.
    We didn't think so, at first, but we found out. We've also found that zooms
    are better than fixed focal length lenses in practical use, counter to what
    many have said.
    Our equipment list for a wedding is as follows:
    Canon 20D (2)
    Canon D30 (1) backup
    Oly E-10 (1) backup
    Canon 1n (1) in case we feel a need for film
    Canon 16-35 f2.8 L (1)
    Sigma 17-35 f2.8-4 (1) backup
    Canon 24-70 f2.8 L (2)
    Tokina 28-70 f2.6-2.8 (1) backup
    Canon 28-135 IS (2) 'cause ya never know, and for backup cameras.
    50mm f1.8 (1) (soon to be replaced by an f1.4) need for speed
    Quantum T4d flash (2)
    Quantum Turbo battery (4)
    Canon 420EX (1) backup
    BP 511 batteries (4) spares
    Reflectors
    Ladder (works great for group shots.)
    Assorted screwdrivers, pliers, electrical cords, etc.

    And we sometimes carry two battery powered, portable 300w/s studio strobes
    and portable backdrop stand with a couple of cloth backdrops, depending on
    the venue and the job.


    Canongirly's suggestion that you get a job as an assistant to a wedding
    photographer was a good one, and it is a very common way to get started in
    the business.

    --
    Skip Middleton
    http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
     
    Skip M, Aug 19, 2005
    #17
  18. John Ortt

    Skip M Guest

    "DLGlos" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On 19 Aug 2005 11:04:00 -0700, ""
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >>Expect payment problems - unless you get up-front payment! One of the
    >>guys on my street dabbled in wedding photography - and constantly got
    >>burned by nonpaying clients; he ended up with quite a fleet of used
    >>cars he took in compromise payment from them.
    >>
    >>Browse this gun show for FREE! Shop the
    >>http://stores.ebay.com/INTERNET-GUN-SHOW

    >
    > My standard, back when I was shooting more regular, was 1/3 due at
    > signing, 1/3 due on the wedding date, and the final 1/3 to get the
    > proof book. NEVER EVER release images prior to payment in full, no
    > matter how much they balk. Kroger's and Walmart won't let out of their
    > stores without paying; why should photography be any different.
    >
    > Final rule, from a local good guy that I used to assist, NEVER EVER
    > shoot a wedding for a relative.


    We get a deposit on the contract signing, balance due at the rehearsal.
    Alleviates getting money on the wedding day. And, if we don't get paid, we
    don't have to show up and work...
    My wife's cousin required final payment on delivery of images, but he has
    about 5 jobs from nearly two years ago, and more, pending because they never
    got their proofs. So he never got paid in full.
    My dad once said, "The best way to lose a friend is to shoot his wedding."
    Words to live by...

    --
    Skip Middleton
    http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
     
    Skip M, Aug 19, 2005
    #18
  19. Re: Was: Getting into Wedding Photography? Now: Flashguns?

    In article <4305e5a1$>, John Ortt
    <> wrote:

    > Another thing mentioned was to "get the flash off the camera". By this I
    > assume they mean to use a flash on an arm so that the light doesn't bounce
    > straight back into the lens. What is the best way of doing this?
    > On older cameras I have seen ruberised cords which connect to the shoe and
    > allow the flash to be up to approx 1m away but newer setups are using the
    > remote controlled flashes which I assume work on radio control and as such
    > should be able to work much farther away.


    You need the camera to be on a tripod for formals & use 2 lights in a
    simple, basic lighting setup to give professional lighting.
     
    Randall Ainsworth, Aug 20, 2005
    #19
  20. In article <4306490f$>, pixby
    <> wrote:

    > As usual Randall has posted a clearly invaluable reply!
    > He is of course absolutely right. Why buy a camera when you have so many
    > other fine tools available to make Wedding pictures? Did Rembrandt use a
    > camera?
    >
    > I'm not sure what sort of light he uses to make his photos with.
    > Probably the light from his bright ideas. It would match his thumbnail
    > dipped in tar approach to answering your question.


    I used Hasselblads and AC-powered studio lights (for formals). But (I
    hate to say it), there's no magic in the Hasselblads.

    The OP posted a laundry list of hardware and that's nowhere near as
    important as knowing how to use it properly and knowing how to run a
    business.
     
    Randall Ainsworth, Aug 20, 2005
    #20
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