Getting a MAC code from ISP?

Discussion in 'Computer Support' started by Kenny, Dec 12, 2006.

  1. Kenny

    Kenny Guest

    My daughter tried to sign up with TalkTalk here in the UK.
    Despite many phone calls to them she was never able to get connected. They
    then started billing her for a service which she never had so she stopped
    the direct debit.
    Tried to sign up with another ISP but was told that TalkTalk has control of
    the line and she needs a MAC code from them. Problem is that they won't
    give it to her.
    She has called them many times and e-mailed, they keep on telling her that
    they will send the MAC code out to her but don't.
    This has been going on for months. She has a BT line but her telephone
    service is supplied by the Post Office. She has contacted both of these and
    was told that without the MAC code ther's nothing they can do.
    From the enquiries I have made it seems that ISP's are under no obligation
    to supply a MAC code, some have signed up to a voluntary agreement to do so
    but many haven't. Also Ofcom are looking into the whole question of MAC
    codes.
    It seems to me that there's something wrong when an ISP can keep control of
    someone's phone line and block internet access and apparently there's
    nothing one can do about it.
    I don't know where she would stand if she took legal advice, this would cost
    money and may turn out fruitless.
    I have suggested she changes her phone number, there would be a charge for
    this but would it work?
    Anyone else had similar problems getting a MAC code and what did they do
    about it?

    --
    Kenny Cargill
     
    Kenny, Dec 12, 2006
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Kenny

    Whiskers Guest

    On 2006-12-12, Kenny <> wrote:
    > My daughter tried to sign up with TalkTalk here in the UK.
    > Despite many phone calls to them she was never able to get connected. They
    > then started billing her for a service which she never had so she stopped
    > the direct debit.
    > Tried to sign up with another ISP but was told that TalkTalk has control of
    > the line and she needs a MAC code from them. Problem is that they won't
    > give it to her.
    > She has called them many times and e-mailed, they keep on telling her that
    > they will send the MAC code out to her but don't.
    > This has been going on for months. She has a BT line but her telephone
    > service is supplied by the Post Office. She has contacted both of these and
    > was told that without the MAC code ther's nothing they can do.
    > From the enquiries I have made it seems that ISP's are under no obligation
    > to supply a MAC code, some have signed up to a voluntary agreement to do so
    > but many haven't. Also Ofcom are looking into the whole question of MAC
    > codes.
    > It seems to me that there's something wrong when an ISP can keep control of
    > someone's phone line and block internet access and apparently there's
    > nothing one can do about it.
    > I don't know where she would stand if she took legal advice, this would cost
    > money and may turn out fruitless.
    > I have suggested she changes her phone number, there would be a charge for
    > this but would it work?
    > Anyone else had similar problems getting a MAC code and what did they do
    > about it?


    Did your daughter agree to the 12 or 18-month minimum initial contract
    period? This article in 'The Register'
    <http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/09/29/talktalk_lets_customers_leave/>
    suggests that it is possible to escape, but it doesn't explain how.

    --
    -- ^^^^^^^^^^
    -- Whiskers
    -- ~~~~~~~~~~
     
    Whiskers, Dec 12, 2006
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Kenny

    beenthere Guest

    "Kenny" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > My daughter tried to sign up with TalkTalk here in the UK.
    > Despite many phone calls to them she was never able to get connected.
    > They then started billing her for a service which she never had so she
    > stopped the direct debit.
    > Tried to sign up with another ISP but was told that TalkTalk has control
    > of the line and she needs a MAC code from them. Problem is that they
    > won't give it to her.
    > She has called them many times and e-mailed, they keep on telling her that
    > they will send the MAC code out to her but don't.
    > This has been going on for months. She has a BT line but her telephone
    > service is supplied by the Post Office. She has contacted both of these
    > and was told that without the MAC code ther's nothing they can do.
    > From the enquiries I have made it seems that ISP's are under no obligation
    > to supply a MAC code, some have signed up to a voluntary agreement to do
    > so but many haven't. Also Ofcom are looking into the whole question of
    > MAC codes.
    > It seems to me that there's something wrong when an ISP can keep control
    > of someone's phone line and block internet access and apparently there's
    > nothing one can do about it.
    > I don't know where she would stand if she took legal advice, this would
    > cost money and may turn out fruitless.
    > I have suggested she changes her phone number, there would be a charge for
    > this but would it work?
    > Anyone else had similar problems getting a MAC code and what did they do
    > about it?
    >

    One article here Kenny

    http://www.the-scream.co.uk/forums/t23260.html

    They`ve got you by the short and. ...
    And they don`t want to let go.

    It normally take 1-2 weeks to get the change done Even
    when you`ve got the code.

    It`s a beetch.
     
    beenthere, Dec 12, 2006
    #3
  4. "Kenny" <> wrote in
    news::

    > My daughter tried to sign up with TalkTalk here in the UK.
    > Despite many phone calls to them she was never able to get connected.
    > They then started billing her for a service which she never had so she
    > stopped the direct debit.
    > Tried to sign up with another ISP but was told that TalkTalk has control
    > of the line and she needs a MAC code from them. Problem is that they
    > won't give it to her.
    > She has called them many times and e-mailed, they keep on telling her
    > that they will send the MAC code out to her but don't.
    > This has been going on for months. She has a BT line but her telephone
    > service is supplied by the Post Office. She has contacted both of these
    > and was told that without the MAC code ther's nothing they can do.
    > From the enquiries I have made it seems that ISP's are under no
    > obligation to supply a MAC code, some have signed up to a voluntary
    > agreement to do so but many haven't. Also Ofcom are looking into the
    > whole question of MAC codes.
    > It seems to me that there's something wrong when an ISP can keep control
    > of someone's phone line and block internet access and apparently there's
    > nothing one can do about it.
    > I don't know where she would stand if she took legal advice, this would
    > cost money and may turn out fruitless.
    > I have suggested she changes her phone number, there would be a charge
    > for this but would it work?
    > Anyone else had similar problems getting a MAC code and what did they do
    > about it?



    Sounds like some shoddy business practices from here. In the USA the company
    denying any citizen communications access could be fined by our FCC, and sued
    for denying access until any dispute was resolved appropriately. In some
    jurisdictions this could be a criminal discrimination with regards to access
    of a public service. Of course, to interest a lawyer in a lawsuit, there
    would have to be money involved, thus there would have to damages shown which
    would be commensurate with monitary remedy. Some cases, when all the facts
    are revealed, the situation may rise to the level that "would shock the
    conscienciousness" of reasonable and prudent person/s, thus a solicitor may
    take the case contingent upon an award of the court for remedy, fees and
    costs.

    I know you're in the UK and things operate a little differently there, but
    Internet access does follow some general physical rules.

    MAC = "Media Access Control"

    It's a hardware address that simply and uniquely identifies each node of a
    network...

    Everything that accesses the internet has a MAC address: computers via the
    wire that provides the internet service and plugs into a port which is part
    of a card, and that card has a unique MAC address.

    Routers have a unique MAC address, and on most routers you can "Clone" the
    MAC address to any alpha-numerical value within the range designated for MAC
    addresses...

    To find your machines MAC address in Win2kNTXP:

    Start > Run > type cmd in the text box > OK = Command Prompt Window

    Type ipconfig/all then Enter

    The 12-digit Physical Address is the same as the machine's MAC address;
    formated like this:

    00-EA-75-41-7F-A6 (numbers 0-9 and letters A-F)

    That should help you obtain what is your [daughter's] MAC address on the
    machine with which the internet would be accessed. Actually, it's on the
    network card or dial-up card, or router, or whatever is actually accessing
    the internet on behalf of your machine. So, in simplist of terms, you could
    actually buy another dial-up or ethernet access card, change it out with the
    one in your machine, to have a whole new MAC address for ~$10 USD.


    Best wishes to all for a safe and joyous holiday season.

    --

    "When you come to the end of all the light you know,
    and it's time to step into the darkness of the unknown,
    'faith' is knowing that one of two things shall happen:
    either you will be given something solid to stand on,
    or you will be taught to fly." - Edward Teller (1908-2003)
     
    Bucky Breeder, Dec 12, 2006
    #4
  5. Kenny

    beenthere Guest

    "Bucky Breeder" <> wrote in
    message news:Xns989750E8AF78FWeeZurD@216.151.153.21...
    > "Kenny" <> wrote in
    > news::
    >

    SNIPPED some
    >
    > MAC = "Media Access Control"
    >

    The MAC talked about here Bucky is::

    What is a MAC code?
    MAC stands for Migration Authorisation Code. It is issued by your broadband
    provider and is used to seamlessly switch from one provider to another
    without having to wait weeks to cease your line and re-register with another
    provider

    bw from OJ, and have a great Xmas.
     
    beenthere, Dec 12, 2006
    #5
  6. "beenthere" <> wrote in
    news:eEyfh.6029$:

    >
    > "Bucky Breeder" <> wrote in
    > message news:Xns989750E8AF78FWeeZurD@216.151.153.21...
    >> "Kenny" <> wrote in
    >> news::
    >>

    > SNIPPED some
    >>
    >> MAC = "Media Access Control"
    >>

    > The MAC talked about here Bucky is::
    >
    > What is a MAC code?
    > MAC stands for Migration Authorisation Code. It is issued by your
    > broadband provider and is used to seamlessly switch from one provider to
    > another without having to wait weeks to cease your line and re-register
    > with another provider
    >
    > bw from OJ, and have a great Xmas.



    Bummer! They've hijacked the poor souls' internet access as well as a
    commonly known acronym... Maybe a world court action would be in order
    here? Well, if not, this has got to be an absolute abuse of a system over
    which there should be some government oversight - or else a company could
    shut down operations and refuse to give the code to all [Episcopalians] of
    any group - wrongfully. I was hoping he could just look-up his own info
    and screw the bastards, you know?

    Maybe the suggestions on the legal foundations may help organize their
    presentation and get some quick legal help, because this really seems
    abominable, even if there are some pending contract issues to be resolved.
    There's no practical reason to deny access whilst other disputes are
    getting worked out appropriately.

    So much for the UK being a "first-world" country? <shu-u-u-u-udder> (o;


    Best wishes to all for a safe and joyous holiday season.

    --

    "When you come to the end of all the light you know,
    and it's time to step into the darkness of the unknown,
    'faith' is knowing that one of two things shall happen:
    either you will be given something solid to stand on,
    or you will be taught to fly." - Edward Teller (1908-2003)
     
    Bucky Breeder, Dec 12, 2006
    #6
  7. Kenny

    old man Guest

    Its a problem which recently featured on BBC
    Ofcom stated they don't have any rules which could force the issue, and as
    such this needs rectifying.
    I wonder what would happen if a 'small claims' was issued, would they fight
    it? - not that it helps
    Theres nothing you can do about it, in the short term, other than having BT
    put in a new line

    "Kenny" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > My daughter tried to sign up with TalkTalk here in the UK.
    > Despite many phone calls to them she was never able to get connected.

    They
    > then started billing her for a service which she never had so she stopped
    > the direct debit.
    > Tried to sign up with another ISP but was told that TalkTalk has control

    of
    > the line and she needs a MAC code from them. Problem is that they won't
    > give it to her.
    > She has called them many times and e-mailed, they keep on telling her that
    > they will send the MAC code out to her but don't.
    > This has been going on for months. She has a BT line but her telephone
    > service is supplied by the Post Office. She has contacted both of these

    and
    > was told that without the MAC code ther's nothing they can do.
    > From the enquiries I have made it seems that ISP's are under no obligation
    > to supply a MAC code, some have signed up to a voluntary agreement to do

    so
    > but many haven't. Also Ofcom are looking into the whole question of MAC
    > codes.
    > It seems to me that there's something wrong when an ISP can keep control

    of
    > someone's phone line and block internet access and apparently there's
    > nothing one can do about it.
    > I don't know where she would stand if she took legal advice, this would

    cost
    > money and may turn out fruitless.
    > I have suggested she changes her phone number, there would be a charge for
    > this but would it work?
    > Anyone else had similar problems getting a MAC code and what did they do
    > about it?
    >
    > --
    > Kenny Cargill
    >
    >
     
    old man, Dec 12, 2006
    #7
  8. Kenny

    Whiskers Guest

    On 2006-12-12, Bucky Breeder <>
    wrote:
    > "beenthere" <> wrote in
    > news:eEyfh.6029$:
    >
    >>
    >> "Bucky Breeder" <> wrote in
    >> message news:Xns989750E8AF78FWeeZurD@216.151.153.21...
    >>> "Kenny" <> wrote in
    >>> news::
    >>>

    >> SNIPPED some
    >>>
    >>> MAC = "Media Access Control"
    >>>

    >> The MAC talked about here Bucky is::
    >>
    >> What is a MAC code?
    >> MAC stands for Migration Authorisation Code. It is issued by your
    >> broadband provider and is used to seamlessly switch from one provider to
    >> another without having to wait weeks to cease your line and re-register
    >> with another provider
    >>
    >> bw from OJ, and have a great Xmas.

    >
    >
    > Bummer! They've hijacked the poor souls' internet access


    No they haven't; it seems that they may have failed to provide the
    particular service she contracted for (or they have provided it but failed
    to help the customer to get it working). That particular telephone line
    is temporarily not available for a competitor to use for providing a DSL
    service, but it can still be used for analogue voice and data.
    "Broadband" is not an 'inalienable right', and many people are too far
    from the telephone exchange for DSL to work anyway. Internet access in
    the home or office is not an 'inalienable right', come to that, although
    the former state telco is obliged to provide voice services to anyone who
    asks - and to swallow the costs.

    There are too many unknown factors in this particular case for anyone to
    to make more than vague suggestions. TalkTalk have had a lot of adverse
    publicity in the UK since they launched their 'Free broadband for life'
    offer, and (surprise surprise) got lots of applications - too many to
    handle.

    No crime has been committed. At most, there would be a civil case over
    'breach of contract' - and it's not clear which party is in breach, here.

    > as well as a
    > commonly known acronym...


    MAC for 'migration authorisation code' is ubiquitous throughout the UK DSL
    market. I don't know who coined the term, and I agree that it's silly to
    clash with 'media access control'.

    > Maybe a world court action would be in order here?


    Hardly. A local 'Small Claims Court' perhaps.

    > Well, if not, this has got to be an absolute abuse


    No it isn't; it's a contract between an incompetent service provider and a
    naive customer.

    > of a system over
    > which there should be some government oversight -


    There is. However, widespread DSL services are so new in the UK that
    there is not yet any specific regulation or legislation concerning
    transfer of a customer's telephone line from one DSL provider to another.
    The MAC system devised by the industry normally works well enough, but
    there is a growing list of cases where it hasn't for one reason or
    another, so both the industry and government are under increasing pressure
    to devise a more flexible and enforceable arrangement.

    > or else a company could
    > shut down operations and refuse to give the code to all [Episcopalians] of
    > any group - wrongfully. I was hoping he could just look-up his own info
    > and screw the bastards, you know?


    Discrimination in business on the grounds of race, religion, and some
    other things, is illegal. There is no suggestion that this s happening
    anyway.

    It is not practical for end users to control the connections that are made
    within the telco's exchange and which require the mutual co-operation of
    the telco and the various DSL providers.

    Until very recently we had a state monopoly telephone system, and the
    basic infrastructure and legislation still reflects that.

    > Maybe the suggestions on the legal foundations may help organize their
    > presentation and get some quick legal help, because this really seems
    > abominable, even if there are some pending contract issues to be resolved.
    > There's no practical reason to deny access whilst other disputes are
    > getting worked out appropriately.


    Access to the internet and to telephony is not being denied or prevented.
    All there is, is a dispute over whether or not a particular service has
    been provided and paid for.

    > So much for the UK being a "first-world" country? <shu-u-u-u-udder> (o;


    You have imagined far more into this than exists.

    --
    -- ^^^^^^^^^^
    -- Whiskers
    -- ~~~~~~~~~~
     
    Whiskers, Dec 12, 2006
    #8
  9. Kenny

    why? Guest

    On Tue, 12 Dec 2006 12:08:11 -0000, Kenny wrote:

    >My daughter tried to sign up with TalkTalk here in the UK.
    >Despite many phone calls to them she was never able to get connected. They
    >then started billing her for a service which she never had so she stopped
    >the direct debit.
    >Tried to sign up with another ISP but was told that TalkTalk has control of
    >the line and she needs a MAC code from them. Problem is that they won't
    >give it to her.


    This was mentioned in a recent article in the UK. computer press, as you
    say ....

    <snip>

    >From the enquiries I have made it seems that ISP's are under no obligation
    >to supply a MAC code, some have signed up to a voluntary agreement to do so
    >but many haven't. Also Ofcom are looking into the whole question of MAC
    >codes.


    That won't be for 2 or 3 years yet.

    >It seems to me that there's something wrong when an ISP can keep control of
    >someone's phone line and block internet access and apparently there's
    >nothing one can do about it.


    The article mentioned all of what you said and, your best bet may be,

    Accept the deal the ISP offers, otherwise you have to apply to another
    ISP for thier package and wait the 2-3 weeks for a connection.

    >I don't know where she would stand if she took legal advice, this would cost
    >money and may turn out fruitless.


    They did say IIRC, no point in going to CAB wither.

    >I have suggested she changes her phone number, there would be a charge for
    >this but would it work?
    >Anyone else had similar problems getting a MAC code and what did they do
    >about it?


    You will most likely want to check the UK telecoms newsgroup(s), The UK
    ADSL/Broadband forums, a couple are -


    Learn all about transfering your broadband ISP at broadband.co.uk. ...
    Contact your current provider and request a MAC code to transfer they
    may haggle ...
    www.broadband.co.uk/changeprovider.jsp - 13k - Cached - Similar pages

    Broadband - help.com:- the leading broadband review and news site in the
    UK.
    www.broadband-help.com/


    UK legal, see the 2 group names
    http://www.usenet.org.uk/newsgroups.html


    Me
     
    why?, Dec 12, 2006
    #9
  10. Kenny

    why? Guest

    On Tue, 12 Dec 2006 12:08:11 -0000, Kenny wrote:

    >My daughter tried to sign up with TalkTalk here in the UK.
    >Despite many phone calls to them she was never able to get connected. They
    >then started billing her for a service which she never had so she stopped
    >the direct debit.

    <snip>

    NG - uk.telecom.broadband , quite a few threads.


    This must be a joke page then, it's easy to move to TT.

    http://www.talktalk.co.uk/talktalk/...=MAIN.UK.TALKTALK.STATIC.HELP.BBHELP.BBSPLIST
    If you already have broadband from someone else, it's easy to switch to
    TalkTalk Broadband, and we'll do our best to switch your connection
    without interruption.

    * A MAC code (Migration Authorisation Code) is a 17 to 18 digit code
    that we need to transfer you between broadband providers with minimal
    interuption to your broadband service. Mac Codes usually begin with
    "BBIP" or "FTIP" (e.g. BBIP 12344321/AB12C).
    * If we haven't requested a MAC code from you yet, don't worry, we
    will contact you when one is needed.
    * To get your MAC code, simply contact your current broadband
    provider. Don't worry, it's standard procedure to ask for it and their
    customer services will know what to do.
    * Please note that cable operators (NTL, Telewest) and a very small
    number of non-cable broadband providers do not provide MAC codes. To
    join TalkTalk you'll need to disconnect from their service, make sure
    you have an active BT line installed and then come back to us.
    * For further details, please see our MAC Code FAQ.


    It'a already in uk.legal

    ISP, requested a MAC code
    .... code and a mobile contract?) MACs are issued by BT to the ISP who
    pass ... They decided
    to cut me off, even though I had arranged transfer to Zen, with the MAC.
    ....
    uk.legal - Feb 5, 2:37 am by SID - 13 messages - 11 authors




    Me
     
    why?, Dec 12, 2006
    #10
  11. Whiskers <> wrote in
    news::
    >
    > You have imagined far more into this than exists.



    Somebody certainly has.



    Best wishes to all for a safe and joyous holiday season.

    --

    "When you come to the end of all the light you know,
    and it's time to step into the darkness of the unknown,
    'faith' is knowing that one of two things shall happen:
    either you will be given something solid to stand on,
    or you will be taught to fly." - Edward Teller (1908-2003)
     
    Bucky Breeder, Dec 12, 2006
    #11
  12. Whiskers <> wrote in
    news::
    >
    > You have imagined far more into this than exists.



    <S-S-S-S-S-N-N-N-n-n-n-a-a-a-a-p-P-P!> ROTF-LOL!

    It exists. To somebody it exists - and it's important! And it's wrong
    they should have to go thru it. The fact of "that's the way it is" does
    not make it right. It does not make it right at all. Plus the fact that
    there's an easier way all around to implement the procedure and keep
    everybody's interests satisfied.

    Can you say "hi, per Bo LEE?" Now run to that other thread and vote. I
    don't care how you vote... just vote. And vote under all your little
    nyms, because socks are important here too. It's your civic dooty.


    Best wishes to all for a safe and joyous holiday season.

    --

    "When you come to the end of all the light you know,
    and it's time to step into the darkness of the unknown,
    'faith' is knowing that one of two things shall happen:
    either you will be given something solid to stand on,
    or you will be taught to fly." - Edward Teller (1908-2003)
     
    Bucky Breeder, Dec 12, 2006
    #12
  13. Kenny

    Guest

    On 12 Dec 2006 20:56:43 GMT, Bucky Breeder
    <> wrote:

    >Can you say "hi, per Bo LEE?" Now run to that other thread and vote. I
    >don't care how you vote... just vote. And vote under all your little
    >nyms, because socks are important here too. It's your civic dooty.


    What on Earth are you talking about?
     
    , Dec 12, 2006
    #13
  14. Kenny

    Kenny Guest

    Thanks for the replies, will look at the forums entioned.
    As for any contractual obligations she may have had with Talk Talk it was
    them who were in breach of contract by not supplying the service but still
    had the cheek to try to make her pay for it!

    --
    Kenny Cargill

    "why?" <fgrirp*sgc@VAINY!Qznq.fpvragvfg.pbz> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > On Tue, 12 Dec 2006 12:08:11 -0000, Kenny wrote:
    >
    >>My daughter tried to sign up with TalkTalk here in the UK.
    >>Despite many phone calls to them she was never able to get connected.
    >>They
    >>then started billing her for a service which she never had so she stopped
    >>the direct debit.

    > <snip>
    >
    > NG - uk.telecom.broadband , quite a few threads.
    >
    >
    > This must be a joke page then, it's easy to move to TT.
    >
    > http://www.talktalk.co.uk/talktalk/...=MAIN.UK.TALKTALK.STATIC.HELP.BBHELP.BBSPLIST
    > If you already have broadband from someone else, it's easy to switch to
    > TalkTalk Broadband, and we'll do our best to switch your connection
    > without interruption.
    >
    > * A MAC code (Migration Authorisation Code) is a 17 to 18 digit code
    > that we need to transfer you between broadband providers with minimal
    > interuption to your broadband service. Mac Codes usually begin with
    > "BBIP" or "FTIP" (e.g. BBIP 12344321/AB12C).
    > * If we haven't requested a MAC code from you yet, don't worry, we
    > will contact you when one is needed.
    > * To get your MAC code, simply contact your current broadband
    > provider. Don't worry, it's standard procedure to ask for it and their
    > customer services will know what to do.
    > * Please note that cable operators (NTL, Telewest) and a very small
    > number of non-cable broadband providers do not provide MAC codes. To
    > join TalkTalk you'll need to disconnect from their service, make sure
    > you have an active BT line installed and then come back to us.
    > * For further details, please see our MAC Code FAQ.
    >
    >
    > It'a already in uk.legal
    >
    > ISP, requested a MAC code
    > ... code and a mobile contract?) MACs are issued by BT to the ISP who
    > pass ... They decided
    > to cut me off, even though I had arranged transfer to Zen, with the MAC.
    > ...
    > uk.legal - Feb 5, 2:37 am by SID - 13 messages - 11 authors
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Me
     
    Kenny, Dec 12, 2006
    #14
  15. Kenny

    Whiskers Guest

    On 2006-12-12, Kenny <> wrote:
    > Thanks for the replies, will look at the forums entioned.
    > As for any contractual obligations she may have had with Talk Talk it was
    > them who were in breach of contract by not supplying the service but still
    > had the cheek to try to make her pay for it!


    This isn't the place to argue the point, but the service provider may take
    a different view about who did what.

    --
    -- ^^^^^^^^^^
    -- Whiskers
    -- ~~~~~~~~~~
     
    Whiskers, Dec 13, 2006
    #15
  16. Whiskers <> wrote in
    news::

    > On 2006-12-12, Kenny <> wrote:
    >> Thanks for the replies, will look at the forums entioned.
    >> As for any contractual obligations she may have had with Talk Talk it
    >> was them who were in breach of contract by not supplying the service
    >> but still had the cheek to try to make her pay for it!

    >
    > This isn't the place to argue the point, but the service provider may
    > take a different view about who did what.



    HEY, you! It's an "us and them" world! Who's side are you on?

    A solution does not necessarily base on legalities or even the actual
    unbiased facts; moreso, on perceptions and appearances. Big-ass rich
    company should give the kid a break... besides it'd look better for the
    company too, in the long haul.

    It's us, "the consumers" and them, "the evil-doers"; make up your mind!


    Best wishes to all for a safe and joyous holiday season.

    --

    He was a spy, all right! And he knew that everybody knew it...
    He'd walk into a room and people would go "Hey, who is that guy, a spy?"
    He'd laugh to himself, maybe pull out his gun and show it to the people,
    to kind of impress them - but *not* to show off.
    Sometimes spying was dirty work.
    Sometimes he'd kill a guy, then paint a clown face on his face.
    Nobody said he had to do that, but he did it anyway.
    So, dirty work *can* be entertaining and educational!
     
    Bucky Breeder, Dec 13, 2006
    #16
    1. Advertising

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