General question about studying

Discussion in 'MCSE' started by mcglinchey, Nov 13, 2003.

  1. mcglinchey

    mcglinchey Guest

    Hello all! I've been in IT for 6 years and have been working with w2k
    for the past year. I'm going for 70-215 shortly and have been
    studying a bunch! (A Test King study guide, Microsoft's Training Kit,
    etc.) I've also been looking at alot of cert websites. I was
    wondering tho....it seems that "braindumps" are not looked to highly
    upon. Is using them cheating?

    Thanks,
    Laura
     
    mcglinchey, Nov 13, 2003
    #1
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  2. mcglinchey

    Jtyc Guest

    > upon. Is using them cheating?

    Only if you think getting the answers ahead of time is cheating. It's open
    to debate really.
     
    Jtyc, Nov 13, 2003
    #2
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  3. mcglinchey

    Ken Briscoe Guest

    Here's our daily braindump conversation. Thanks, mcglinchey! Really. Thanks.

    Gimme an A!
    Gimme an S!
    Gimme an S!
    Gimme an F!
    Gimme a U!

    nevermind, I don't have the energy for this today.

    --

    KB - MCNGP #26

    first initial last name AT hotmail DOT com
     
    Ken Briscoe, Nov 13, 2003
    #3
  4. mcglinchey

    Consultant Guest

    yes, it's cheating. do the right thing


    "mcglinchey" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hello all! I've been in IT for 6 years and have been working with w2k
    > for the past year. I'm going for 70-215 shortly and have been
    > studying a bunch! (A Test King study guide, Microsoft's Training Kit,
    > etc.) I've also been looking at alot of cert websites. I was
    > wondering tho....it seems that "braindumps" are not looked to highly
    > upon. Is using them cheating?
    >
    > Thanks,
    > Laura
     
    Consultant, Nov 13, 2003
    #4
  5. "mcglinchey" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hello all! I've been in IT for 6 years and have been working with w2k
    > for the past year. I'm going for 70-215 shortly and have been
    > studying a bunch! (A Test King study guide, Microsoft's Training Kit,
    > etc.) I've also been looking at alot of cert websites. I was
    > wondering tho....it seems that "braindumps" are not looked to highly
    > upon. Is using them cheating?
    >
    > Thanks,
    > Laura


    If a professor was giving you an exam, would he consider it cheating if you
    knew the exact questions from the test ahead of time? There are legitimate
    practice exams out there, some that are Microsoft approved. This is no
    different than the professor giving you practice questions for his exam. But
    to get your hands on the actual exam questions?... Yes, this is cheating.

    --
    Politician Spock
    MCSA, CCEA, MCNGP #15
    The MCNGP Team - We're here to help

    This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
    You assume all risk for your use. Not responsible for your inability to
    understand logic, ambiguous references, sarcasm, the imaginary gnomes
    living in my garden, or William Shatner's acting.
    © 2003 Star Trek Federation. All rights reserved.
     
    Politician Spock, Nov 13, 2003
    #5
  6. mcglinchey

    Brat Guest

    your copy of Test King is also cheating

    "mcglinchey" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hello all! I've been in IT for 6 years and have been working with w2k
    > for the past year. I'm going for 70-215 shortly and have been
    > studying a bunch! (A Test King study guide, Microsoft's Training Kit,
    > etc.) I've also been looking at alot of cert websites. I was
    > wondering tho....it seems that "braindumps" are not looked to highly
    > upon. Is using them cheating?
    >
    > Thanks,
    > Laura
     
    Brat, Nov 13, 2003
    #6
  7. mcglinchey

    Jeff Rush Guest

    Guess the question is, do you care? Is passing the exam faster worth your
    self-respect? Also you don't retain the cramsession answers.



    "mcglinchey" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hello all! I've been in IT for 6 years and have been working with w2k
    > for the past year. I'm going for 70-215 shortly and have been
    > studying a bunch! (A Test King study guide, Microsoft's Training Kit,
    > etc.) I've also been looking at alot of cert websites. I was
    > wondering tho....it seems that "braindumps" are not looked to highly
    > upon. Is using them cheating?
    >
    > Thanks,
    > Laura
     
    Jeff Rush, Nov 13, 2003
    #7
  8. Please explain why Test King's tests are cheating?

    "Brat" <> wrote in message
    news:bp0fv7$rtm$...
    > your copy of Test King is also cheating
    >
    > "mcglinchey" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > Hello all! I've been in IT for 6 years and have been working with w2k
    > > for the past year. I'm going for 70-215 shortly and have been
    > > studying a bunch! (A Test King study guide, Microsoft's Training Kit,
    > > etc.) I've also been looking at alot of cert websites. I was
    > > wondering tho....it seems that "braindumps" are not looked to highly
    > > upon. Is using them cheating?
    > >
    > > Thanks,
    > > Laura

    >
    >
     
    Davor Dzorlev, Nov 14, 2003
    #8
  9. Test King uses dumps--actual exams to prepare their guides.
    They are not test guides, they are cheat sheets.

    --
    Larry Samuels MS-MVP (Windows-Shell/User)
    Associate Expert
    Unofficial FAQ for Windows Server 2003 at
    http://home.earthlink.net/~larrysamuels/WS2003FAQ.htm
    Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
    "Davor Dzorlev" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Please explain why Test King's tests are cheating?
    >
    > "Brat" <> wrote in message
    > news:bp0fv7$rtm$...
    > > your copy of Test King is also cheating
    > >
    > > "mcglinchey" <> wrote in message
    > > news:...
    > > > Hello all! I've been in IT for 6 years and have been working with w2k
    > > > for the past year. I'm going for 70-215 shortly and have been
    > > > studying a bunch! (A Test King study guide, Microsoft's Training Kit,
    > > > etc.) I've also been looking at alot of cert websites. I was
    > > > wondering tho....it seems that "braindumps" are not looked to highly
    > > > upon. Is using them cheating?
    > > >
    > > > Thanks,
    > > > Laura

    > >
    > >

    >
    >
     
    Larry Samuels MS-MVP XP \(Shell/User\), Nov 14, 2003
    #9
  10. mcglinchey

    |{evin Guest

    On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 01:16:35 +0100, "Davor Dzorlev"
    <> wrote:

    >Please explain why Test King's tests are cheating?
    >


    Weeeeelll.. it _could_ be because they pdf's that contain the exact
    questions and answers to the tests?

    But... feel free to use them. Some of us have PDF editing
    capabilities. <eg>

    Imagine the assfucker's surprise when they memorize EVERY question and
    (incorrect) answer and fail the test.
     
    |{evin, Nov 14, 2003
    #10
  11. But you have to see some real test environment as also the lab environment
    (hands on), cause it is better to se how the tests looks like, than to do it
    by burning the money and time on trying the real exams. I mean that it is
    nice to see if you can handle the pressure and to finish on time the real
    exam. Don't forget that not all candidates speak native English, so they
    must to try before they go to exam. I don't look on this as the primary way
    to prepare for the exam, but as a supplement to real learning, lab practice
    and real world experience. Test King and some other test tools (Transcender
    for example) also gives the explanation (not just correct answer), so you
    can find if you have missed up something in your learning. It is normal that
    everybody is missing some experience and meets some issues for the first
    time in certification learning and preparation, then it is very possible
    that he/she can also miss some important stuff on the real exam.

    "Larry Samuels MS-MVP XP (Shell/User)" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Test King uses dumps--actual exams to prepare their guides.
    > They are not test guides, they are cheat sheets.
    >
    > --
    > Larry Samuels MS-MVP (Windows-Shell/User)
    > Associate Expert
    > Unofficial FAQ for Windows Server 2003 at
    > http://home.earthlink.net/~larrysamuels/WS2003FAQ.htm
    > Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
    > "Davor Dzorlev" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > Please explain why Test King's tests are cheating?
    > >
    > > "Brat" <> wrote in message
    > > news:bp0fv7$rtm$...
    > > > your copy of Test King is also cheating
    > > >
    > > > "mcglinchey" <> wrote in message
    > > > news:...
    > > > > Hello all! I've been in IT for 6 years and have been working with

    w2k
    > > > > for the past year. I'm going for 70-215 shortly and have been
    > > > > studying a bunch! (A Test King study guide, Microsoft's Training

    Kit,
    > > > > etc.) I've also been looking at alot of cert websites. I was
    > > > > wondering tho....it seems that "braindumps" are not looked to highly
    > > > > upon. Is using them cheating?
    > > > >
    > > > > Thanks,
    > > > > Laura
    > > >
    > > >

    > >
    > >

    >
    >
     
    Davor Dzorlev, Nov 14, 2003
    #11
  12. mcglinchey

    |{evin Guest

    On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 02:04:50 +0100, "Davor Dzorlev"
    <> wrote:


    >can find if you have missed up something in your learning. It is normal that
    >everybody is missing some experience and meets some issues for the first
    >time in certification learning and preparation, then it is very possible
    >that he/she can also miss some important stuff on the real exam.


    Um... yeah. It is also possible to miss things in real life. Having
    the certification is supposed to mean that you HAVE the experience.
    That's kind of the point.

    The object is not to 'fill in the gaps' with memorized answers.
     
    |{evin, Nov 14, 2003
    #12
  13. Yes but that process in real life of miss things and find out about them is
    also known as a gaining an experience. Obviously you have the rare gift to
    be born experienced and that's why you are so surprised on this phenomenon.
    I see, in case you stuck somewhere in your work I guess you won't post your
    sorrow here, but you will turn to your talent. And Yes the certification is
    "supposed to mean that you HAVE the experience", but in the real life it
    reflects that you have "enough knowledge" (not real experience) to take the
    certification (not all certifications, but most). And the main purpose (for
    IT professional) is to succeed in the career more easy. Otherwise, you won't
    probably certificate just for your satisfaction, to confirm your experience,
    to impress your parents or girlfriend. Don't be so romantic. But you are
    right about not to 'fill in the gaps' with memorized answers, but with some
    real knowledge and practice.

    "|{evin" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 02:04:50 +0100, "Davor Dzorlev"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >
    > >can find if you have missed up something in your learning. It is normal

    that
    > >everybody is missing some experience and meets some issues for the first
    > >time in certification learning and preparation, then it is very possible
    > >that he/she can also miss some important stuff on the real exam.

    >
    > Um... yeah. It is also possible to miss things in real life. Having
    > the certification is supposed to mean that you HAVE the experience.
    > That's kind of the point.
    >
    > The object is not to 'fill in the gaps' with memorized answers.
     
    Davor Dzorlev, Nov 14, 2003
    #13
  14. mcglinchey

    |{evin Guest

    On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 02:53:21 +0100, "Davor Dzorlev"
    <> wrote:

    >Yes but that process in real life of miss things and find out about them is
    >also known as a gaining an experience. Obviously you have the rare gift to
    >be born experienced and that's why you are so surprised on this phenomenon.


    Um, no. I was an admin for about 6 years and a developer for about 3
    years before I decided to get my MCSE and MCSD.

    >I see, in case you stuck somewhere in your work I guess you won't post your
    >sorrow here, but you will turn to your talent. And Yes the certification is


    Google is my friend. I also have a network of experienced friends...
    when one of us runs up against something that stumps us...
    collaboration is only a phone call away.

    >"supposed to mean that you HAVE the experience", but in the real life it
    >reflects that you have "enough knowledge" (not real experience) to take the
    >certification (not all certifications, but most). And the main purpose (for
    >IT professional) is to succeed in the career more easy. Otherwise, you won't


    Yep.

    >probably certificate just for your satisfaction, to confirm your experience,
    >to impress your parents or girlfriend. Don't be so romantic. But you are
    >right about not to 'fill in the gaps' with memorized answers, but with some
    >real knowledge and practice.


    I'm not sure if we're agreeing or arguing here... my point was that
    cheating to 'fill in the missing' experience is not acceptable.
     
    |{evin, Nov 14, 2003
    #14
  15. I don't know what to say. Lucky you!
    You had an ideal conditions to certify. But for most cases today, it is very
    rare for someone to give you a job for an administrator without having some
    certification. And how can you gain such experience without working?! By
    practice in your home lab for several years or maintaining some school
    network several years for free? It goes like that story about the chicken
    and the egg. Anyway we are not arguing but discussing, and I completely
    agree against cheating.

    "|{evin" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 02:53:21 +0100, "Davor Dzorlev"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    > >Yes but that process in real life of miss things and find out about them

    is
    > >also known as a gaining an experience. Obviously you have the rare gift

    to
    > >be born experienced and that's why you are so surprised on this

    phenomenon.
    >
    > Um, no. I was an admin for about 6 years and a developer for about 3
    > years before I decided to get my MCSE and MCSD.
    >
    > >I see, in case you stuck somewhere in your work I guess you won't post

    your
    > >sorrow here, but you will turn to your talent. And Yes the certification

    is
    >
    > Google is my friend. I also have a network of experienced friends...
    > when one of us runs up against something that stumps us...
    > collaboration is only a phone call away.
    >
    > >"supposed to mean that you HAVE the experience", but in the real life it
    > >reflects that you have "enough knowledge" (not real experience) to take

    the
    > >certification (not all certifications, but most). And the main purpose

    (for
    > >IT professional) is to succeed in the career more easy. Otherwise, you

    won't
    >
    > Yep.
    >
    > >probably certificate just for your satisfaction, to confirm your

    experience,
    > >to impress your parents or girlfriend. Don't be so romantic. But you are
    > >right about not to 'fill in the gaps' with memorized answers, but with

    some
    > >real knowledge and practice.

    >
    > I'm not sure if we're agreeing or arguing here... my point was that
    > cheating to 'fill in the missing' experience is not acceptable.
    >
     
    Davor Dzorlev, Nov 14, 2003
    #15
  16. mcglinchey

    |{evin Guest

    On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 03:50:21 +0100, "Davor Dzorlev"
    <> wrote:

    >I don't know what to say. Lucky you!
    >You had an ideal conditions to certify. But for most cases today, it is very
    >rare for someone to give you a job for an administrator without having some
    >certification. And how can you gain such experience without working?! By
    >practice in your home lab for several years or maintaining some school
    >network several years for free? It goes like that story about the chicken
    >and the egg. Anyway we are not arguing but discussing, and I completely
    >agree against cheating.
    >


    I never said I started my career as an admin... I just I had been
    doing it that long before getting certified. I did a lot of other work
    such as volunteering to change backup tapes, pulling cable, helpdesk,
    desktop, etc before getting the admin work.
     
    |{evin, Nov 14, 2003
    #16
  17. There are plenty of practice test resources that are legitimate and give you
    exactly what you are seeking in preparing for the tests. Test King however
    uses braindumps to form their questions. They are located in Pakistan so
    that Microsoft has little resource to sue them for their business practices.

    --
    Politician Spock
    MCSA, CCEA, MCNGP #15
    The MCNGP Team - We're here to help

    This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
    You assume all risk for your use. Not responsible for your inability to
    understand logic, ambiguous references, sarcasm, the imaginary gnomes
    living in my garden, or William Shatner's acting.
    © 2003 Star Trek Federation. All rights reserved.

    "Davor Dzorlev" <> wrote in message
    news:%23I$...
    > But you have to see some real test environment as also the lab environment
    > (hands on), cause it is better to se how the tests looks like, than to do

    it
    > by burning the money and time on trying the real exams. I mean that it is
    > nice to see if you can handle the pressure and to finish on time the real
    > exam. Don't forget that not all candidates speak native English, so they
    > must to try before they go to exam. I don't look on this as the primary

    way
    > to prepare for the exam, but as a supplement to real learning, lab

    practice
    > and real world experience. Test King and some other test tools

    (Transcender
    > for example) also gives the explanation (not just correct answer), so you
    > can find if you have missed up something in your learning. It is normal

    that
    > everybody is missing some experience and meets some issues for the first
    > time in certification learning and preparation, then it is very possible
    > that he/she can also miss some important stuff on the real exam.
    >
    > "Larry Samuels MS-MVP XP (Shell/User)" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > Test King uses dumps--actual exams to prepare their guides.
    > > They are not test guides, they are cheat sheets.
    > >
    > > --
    > > Larry Samuels MS-MVP (Windows-Shell/User)
    > > Associate Expert
    > > Unofficial FAQ for Windows Server 2003 at
    > > http://home.earthlink.net/~larrysamuels/WS2003FAQ.htm
    > > Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
    > > "Davor Dzorlev" <> wrote in message
    > > news:...
    > > > Please explain why Test King's tests are cheating?
    > > >
    > > > "Brat" <> wrote in message
    > > > news:bp0fv7$rtm$...
    > > > > your copy of Test King is also cheating
    > > > >
    > > > > "mcglinchey" <> wrote in message
    > > > > news:...
    > > > > > Hello all! I've been in IT for 6 years and have been working with

    > w2k
    > > > > > for the past year. I'm going for 70-215 shortly and have been
    > > > > > studying a bunch! (A Test King study guide, Microsoft's Training

    > Kit,
    > > > > > etc.) I've also been looking at alot of cert websites. I was
    > > > > > wondering tho....it seems that "braindumps" are not looked to

    highly
    > > > > > upon. Is using them cheating?
    > > > > >
    > > > > > Thanks,
    > > > > > Laura
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > >

    > >
    > >

    >
    >
     
    Politician Spock, Nov 14, 2003
    #17
  18. "Davor Dzorlev" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > And Yes the certification is
    > "supposed to mean that you HAVE the experience", but in the real life it
    > reflects that you have "enough knowledge" (not real experience) to take

    the
    > certification (not all certifications, but most).


    No, in real life a DEGREE reflects that you have "enough knowledge" (not
    real experience) to take AN ENTRY LEVEL JOB (not all degrees, but most).
    Once you have added experience to your knowledge, you are ready to get
    certified. When too many people without experience hold a certification, the
    certification itself holds less value to the marketplace.

    --
    Politician Spock
    MCSA, CCEA, MCNGP #15
    The MCNGP Team - We're here to help

    This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
    You assume all risk for your use. Not responsible for your inability to
    understand logic, ambiguous references, sarcasm, the imaginary gnomes
    living in my garden, or William Shatner's acting.
    © 2003 Star Trek Federation. All rights reserved.
     
    Politician Spock, Nov 14, 2003
    #18
  19. mcglinchey

    mcglinchey Guest

    OK, now I'm really confused. Why would a Test King study guide
    without a single question in it be cheating?

    Laura

    "Brat" <> wrote in message news:<bp0fv7$rtm$>...
    > your copy of Test King is also cheating
    >
    > "mcglinchey" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > Hello all! I've been in IT for 6 years and have been working with w2k
    > > for the past year. I'm going for 70-215 shortly and have been
    > > studying a bunch! (A Test King study guide, Microsoft's Training Kit,
    > > etc.) I've also been looking at alot of cert websites. I was
    > > wondering tho....it seems that "braindumps" are not looked to highly
    > > upon. Is using them cheating?
    > >
    > > Thanks,
    > > Laura
     
    mcglinchey, Nov 14, 2003
    #19
  20. mcglinchey

    mcglinchey Guest

    I agree that using actual questions would be cheating. So what are
    some good resources for *practice* questions that aren't actually
    stolen from the test?

    Thanks,
    Laura

    (mcglinchey) wrote in message news:<>...
    > Hello all! I've been in IT for 6 years and have been working with w2k
    > for the past year. I'm going for 70-215 shortly and have been
    > studying a bunch! (A Test King study guide, Microsoft's Training Kit,
    > etc.) I've also been looking at alot of cert websites. I was
    > wondering tho....it seems that "braindumps" are not looked to highly
    > upon. Is using them cheating?
    >
    > Thanks,
    > Laura
     
    mcglinchey, Nov 14, 2003
    #20
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