GeForce graphics card - do we need an extra fan

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Old Wolf, Feb 4, 2009.

  1. Old Wolf

    Old Wolf Guest

    Old Wolf, Feb 4, 2009
    #1
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  2. Old Wolf

    Peter M Guest

    On Tue, 3 Feb 2009 19:49:28 -0800 (PST), Old Wolf <> wrote:

    >I'm looking at getting this for my wife's PC, it has a gigantic
    >heatsink but no fan. She has a standard '38 deg' case that has 1
    >chassis fan. Do we need any additional cooling or can the card just go
    >in as-is?
    >
    > http://www.affordablecomputer.co.nz/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=28_55&products_id=1526
    >
    >Also, is there much difference between the 9400GT and 9500GT ?




    Is the case well ventilated as the heat has to get out some ware..
    ??

    Or add a extra case fan.

    Looks like faster memory clock


    http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/132
     
    Peter M, Feb 4, 2009
    #2
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  3. Old Wolf

    Gordon Guest

    On 2009-02-04, Old Wolf <> wrote:
    > I'm looking at getting this for my wife's PC, it has a gigantic
    > heatsink but no fan. She has a standard '38 deg' case that has 1
    > chassis fan. Do we need any additional cooling or can the card just go
    > in as-is?
    >
    > http://www.affordablecomputer.co.nz/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=28_55&products_id=1526
    >
    > Also, is there much difference between the 9400GT and 9500GT ?


    So the manufacturer has just stuck on a gignatic heatsink but no fan. My
    reponse. I'll buy it. For it will be quiet.

    BTW ASUS, make a Motherboard, with massive heatsinks for the bridges.

    Would a manufacturer make a graphics card that crapped out at the first hint
    of a work out?

    Look, given a large enough heat sink no fans are needed. Period, as the
    people of the U S of A would say.


    EN9400GT Series doesn't support SLI function, as the site says.

    Which leads me to ask, what does your wife what to do? No PC wise, and no
    not youporn.com ;-
     
    Gordon, Feb 4, 2009
    #3
  4. Old Wolf

    Guest

    On Feb 4, 5:39 pm, Gordon <> wrote:
    > On 2009-02-04, Old Wolf <> wrote:
    >
    > > I'm looking at getting this for my wife's PC, it has a gigantic
    > > heatsink but no fan. She has a standard '38 deg' case that has 1
    > > chassis fan. Do we need any additional cooling or can the card just go
    > > in as-is?

    >
    > >  http://www.affordablecomputer.co.nz/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=28...

    >
    > > Also, is there much difference between the 9400GT and 9500GT ?

    >
    > So the manufacturer has just stuck on a gignatic heatsink but no fan. My
    > reponse. I'll buy it. For it will be quiet.
    >
    > BTW ASUS, make a Motherboard, with massive heatsinks for the bridges.
    >
    > Would a manufacturer make a graphics card that crapped out at the first hint
    > of a work out?
    >
    > Look, given a large enough heat sink no fans are needed. Period, as the
    > people of the U S of A would say.
    >
    > EN9400GT Series doesn't support SLI function, as the site says.
    >
    > Which leads me to ask, what does your wife what to do? No PC wise, and no
    > not youporn.com ;-


    Some (in fact I think all) of the reports on passive cooling of
    graphic's cards I have read say trying to play games / movies takes
    them right up to the edge of the thermal limits or even past....couple
    that with what sounds like an obsolete case and I'd be reluctant do do
    that myself......If the case has a space for side wall fan directly
    above the gpu cooler at the very least I'd point a fan at it..if
    not...well ho hum...

    There are some nexas fans that have a 20~21db rating (I use them) and
    they are just about silent, so a pair of those...(groups of three
    would add 1db per group so should be avoided) ie you want 2 or 5 fans
    and not 3 or 6. So assuming the PSU has one, cpu is 2 and existing
    case is 3, adding a 4th or even a fifth shouldnt make a difference (as
    long as the new are as quiet as the others on their own
    individually).

    YMMV

    regards

    Thing
     
    , Feb 4, 2009
    #4
  5. Old Wolf

    Guest

    On Feb 5, 12:28 pm, wrote:
    > On Feb 4, 5:39 pm, Gordon <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    > > On 2009-02-04, Old Wolf <> wrote:

    >
    > > > I'm looking at getting this for my wife's PC, it has a gigantic
    > > > heatsink but no fan. She has a standard '38 deg' case that has 1
    > > > chassis fan. Do we need any additional cooling or can the card just go
    > > > in as-is?

    >
    > > >  http://www.affordablecomputer.co.nz/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=28...

    >
    > > > Also, is there much difference between the 9400GT and 9500GT ?

    >
    > > So the manufacturer has just stuck on a gignatic heatsink but no fan. My
    > > reponse. I'll buy it. For it will be quiet.

    >
    > > BTW ASUS, make a Motherboard, with massive heatsinks for the bridges.

    >
    > > Would a manufacturer make a graphics card that crapped out at the first hint
    > > of a work out?

    >
    > > Look, given a large enough heat sink no fans are needed. Period, as the
    > > people of the U S of A would say.

    >
    > > EN9400GT Series doesn't support SLI function, as the site says.

    >
    > > Which leads me to ask, what does your wife what to do? No PC wise, and no
    > > not youporn.com ;-

    >
    > Some (in fact I think all) of the reports on passive cooling of
    > graphic's cards I have read say trying to play games / movies takes
    > them right up to the edge of the thermal limits or even past....


    That also has a lot to do with the quality & price of the card that
    you buy
     
    , Feb 7, 2009
    #5
  6. Old Wolf

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Somewhere on teh intarwebs wrote:
    > On Feb 5, 12:28 pm, wrote:
    >> On Feb 4, 5:39 pm, Gordon <> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>> On 2009-02-04, Old Wolf <> wrote:

    >>
    >>>> I'm looking at getting this for my wife's PC, it has a gigantic
    >>>> heatsink but no fan. She has a standard '38 deg' case that has 1
    >>>> chassis fan. Do we need any additional cooling or can the card
    >>>> just go in as-is?

    >>
    >>>> http://www.affordablecomputer.co.nz/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=28...

    >>
    >>>> Also, is there much difference between the 9400GT and 9500GT ?

    >>
    >>> So the manufacturer has just stuck on a gignatic heatsink but no
    >>> fan. My reponse. I'll buy it. For it will be quiet.

    >>
    >>> BTW ASUS, make a Motherboard, with massive heatsinks for the
    >>> bridges.

    >>
    >>> Would a manufacturer make a graphics card that crapped out at the
    >>> first hint of a work out?

    >>
    >>> Look, given a large enough heat sink no fans are needed. Period, as
    >>> the people of the U S of A would say.



    This statement is fallacious. Unless the heatsink can dissapate the heat
    it's collecting a bigger 'sink will only mean slightly longer until it goes
    critical. You could have a heatsink as large as your head but, if it's in a
    case with poor or no ventilation, it's only a matter of time until it can no
    longer remove heat from the source.

    >>> EN9400GT Series doesn't support SLI function, as the site says.

    >>
    >>> Which leads me to ask, what does your wife what to do? No PC wise,
    >>> and no not youporn.com ;-

    >>
    >> Some (in fact I think all) of the reports on passive cooling of
    >> graphic's cards I have read say trying to play games / movies takes
    >> them right up to the edge of the thermal limits or even past....

    >
    > That also has a lot to do with the quality & price of the card that
    > you buy


    I bought a relatively expensive Asus passive card that lasted ~18 months in
    a well ventilated case, being used for gaming that would have taken it to
    it's limits maybe 5% of it's running time. I've been waiting for 3 months
    now for a replacement (they have a three-year warranty and I registered it
    on-line). Apparently, as it's now an obsolete model, (the last of their AGP
    range,) it's been sent to Asus Australia for assessment / repair /
    replacement.

    The problem was intermittent lock-ups, sometimes taking an hour or more to
    show (even with the side off and a fan pointed at it). I hope it isn't just
    quickly tested and then sent back....

    Cheers,
    --
    Shaun.

    "Build a man a fire, and he`ll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and
    he`ll be warm for the rest of his life." Terry Pratchett, Jingo.
     
    ~misfit~, Feb 7, 2009
    #6
  7. Old Wolf

    Old Wolf Guest

    On Feb 8, 10:54 am, "~misfit~" <> wrote:
    > I bought a relatively expensive Asus passive card that lasted ~18 months in
    > a well ventilated case, being used for gaming that would have taken it to
    > it's limits maybe 5% of it's running time. I've been waiting for 3 months
    > now for a replacement (they have a three-year warranty and I registered it
    > on-line). Apparently, as it's now an obsolete model, (the last of their AGP
    > range,) it's been sent to Asus Australia for assessment / repair /
    > replacement.
    >
    > The problem was intermittent lock-ups, sometimes taking an hour or more to
    > show (even with the side off and a fan pointed at it). I hope it isn't just
    > quickly tested and then sent back....


    She plays World of Warcraft, and had been getting similar
    symptoms on the existing card (a GeForce 7400 GS). The
    PC would just lock up for no apparent reason perhaps
    once or twice a day. If graphics settings were turned up in
    the game, then an intense graphical scene could cause an
    unwanted reboot too.

    Last week the video RAM gave out (the boot screens have
    purple and green letters instead of white, and the Windows
    load screen has lines of garbage pixels all over it).

    Perhaps it would be wiser for us to go for the version
    of the 9400 that has a fan on it, instead of the big
    heatsink?
     
    Old Wolf, Feb 8, 2009
    #7
  8. Old Wolf

    Squiggle Guest

    Old Wolf threw some characters down the intarwebs:
    > On Feb 8, 10:54 am, "~misfit~" <> wrote:
    >
    >> I bought a relatively expensive Asus passive card that lasted ~18 months in
    >> a well ventilated case, being used for gaming that would have taken it to
    >> it's limits maybe 5% of it's running time. I've been waiting for 3 months
    >> now for a replacement (they have a three-year warranty and I registered it
    >> on-line). Apparently, as it's now an obsolete model, (the last of their AGP
    >> range,) it's been sent to Asus Australia for assessment / repair /
    >> replacement.
    >>
    >> The problem was intermittent lock-ups, sometimes taking an hour or more to
    >> show (even with the side off and a fan pointed at it). I hope it isn't just
    >> quickly tested and then sent back....
    >>

    >
    > She plays World of Warcraft, and had been getting similar
    > symptoms on the existing card (a GeForce 7400 GS). The
    > PC would just lock up for no apparent reason perhaps
    > once or twice a day. If graphics settings were turned up in
    > the game, then an intense graphical scene could cause an
    > unwanted reboot too.
    >
    > Last week the video RAM gave out (the boot screens have
    > purple and green letters instead of white, and the Windows
    > load screen has lines of garbage pixels all over it).
    >
    > Perhaps it would be wiser for us to go for the version
    > of the 9400 that has a fan on it, instead of the big
    > heatsink?
    >

    Keeping a graphics card cool consists of two problems:
    1) get the heat from the GPU/RAM on the card into the surrounding air
    2) get the hot air out of the case and replace with cool air.

    The heatsink/fan on the card takes care of #1, with a fan forced
    solution being generally far more effective but with a noise penalty
    If #2 isn't being addressed you will still have temperature problems.

    Personally I'd be looking at getting a case fan with temperature sensor
    and sticking the temperature sensor to the heat sink on the passively
    cooled card. That way you get a nice quiet PC when things are cool, and
    if things start heating up the fan will ramp up and get some hot air out
    of that case (with the resulting inflow of cooler air from outside). It
    all depends how much you value quiet over reliable. Since you were
    looking at the passively cooled card in the first place i'm guessing you
    want a reasonably quiet solution.

    The shop you linked to in your first post has the thermaltake smart case
    fan listed, and also has the cooler master temp controlled fan listed,
    one of those exhausting from the back of the case directly above the
    video card should help a lot. They list only the 80mm sizes but it would
    pay to go for the largest size fan that the case is designed for. 92mm
    is fairly common for cases, and some have 120mm mountings.
     
    Squiggle, Feb 8, 2009
    #8
  9. Old Wolf

    Squiggle Guest

    ~misfit~ threw some characters down the intarwebs:
    >
    >
    > I bought a relatively expensive Asus passive card that lasted ~18 months in
    > a well ventilated case, being used for gaming that would have taken it to
    > it's limits maybe 5% of it's running time.

    Well ventilated? Having heard of your preference for over doing the
    cooling it probably was something like this exercise in overkill?:
    http://www.hardwarezone.com.au/reviews/view.php?id=2717&cid=22&pg=1
    If you feel like living next to a hurricane you can fit that sucker out
    with 9 120mm fans, plus the 230mm front and 140mm rear fans. Plus
    whatever the PSU comes with.

    > I've been waiting for 3 months
    > now for a replacement (they have a three-year warranty and I registered it
    > on-line). Apparently, as it's now an obsolete model, (the last of their AGP
    > range,) it's been sent to Asus Australia for assessment / repair /
    > replacement.
    >


    Sounds like somebody needs an ass kicking, you have the right to a
    refund/replacement in a reasonable time frame.

    > The problem was intermittent lock-ups, sometimes taking an hour or more to
    > show (even with the side off and a fan pointed at it). I hope it isn't just
    > quickly tested and then sent back....
    >
    > Cheers,
    >
     
    Squiggle, Feb 9, 2009
    #9
  10. Old Wolf

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Somewhere on teh intarwebs Squiggle wrote:
    > ~misfit~ threw some characters down the intarwebs:
    >>
    >>
    >> I bought a relatively expensive Asus passive card that lasted ~18
    >> months in a well ventilated case, being used for gaming that would
    >> have taken it to it's limits maybe 5% of it's running time.

    > Well ventilated? Having heard of your preference for over doing the
    > cooling it probably was something like this exercise in overkill?:
    > http://www.hardwarezone.com.au/reviews/view.php?id=2717&cid=22&pg=1


    Nice!

    > If you feel like living next to a hurricane you can fit that sucker
    > out with 9 120mm fans, plus the 230mm front and 140mm rear fans. Plus
    > whatever the PSU comes with.


    My desktop only has a 250mm fan on the side, 2 x 120mm at the front, a 120mm
    in the PSU and CPU, GPU and NB fans. Using manual fan controllers for the
    case fans (and thermally controlled fans on the GPU and CPU) everything
    stays nice and cool without excess heat.

    >> I've been waiting for 3 months
    >> now for a replacement (they have a three-year warranty and I
    >> registered it on-line). Apparently, as it's now an obsolete model,
    >> (the last of their AGP range,) it's been sent to Asus Australia for
    >> assessment / repair / replacement.

    >
    > Sounds like somebody needs an ass kicking, you have the right to a
    > refund/replacement in a reasonable time frame.


    Yeah. The retailer is adamant that they've done all they can at this stage.
    Their instructions on warranty claims are to send them to Asus' NZ agent,
    who sent it on to Asus' Australian agent. I have a good relationship with
    this retailer, I might send him an email actually (although I know he'll
    contact me as soon as he hears from Asus).

    As I said, it's obsolete now so it's not like I can ask for another off the
    shelf. They don't stock *any* AGP cards now.

    Cheers,
    --
    Shaun.

    "Build a man a fire, and he`ll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and
    he`ll be warm for the rest of his life." Terry Pratchett, Jingo.

    >> The problem was intermittent lock-ups, sometimes taking an hour or
    >> more to show (even with the side off and a fan pointed at it). I
    >> hope it isn't just quickly tested and then sent back....
    >>
    >> Cheers,
     
    ~misfit~, Feb 9, 2009
    #10
  11. Old Wolf

    Gib Bogle Guest

    ~misfit~ wrote:
    > Somewhere on teh intarwebs wrote:
    >> On Feb 5, 12:28 pm, wrote:
    >>> On Feb 4, 5:39 pm, Gordon <> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>> On 2009-02-04, Old Wolf <> wrote:
    >>>>> I'm looking at getting this for my wife's PC, it has a gigantic
    >>>>> heatsink but no fan. She has a standard '38 deg' case that has 1
    >>>>> chassis fan. Do we need any additional cooling or can the card
    >>>>> just go in as-is?
    >>>>> http://www.affordablecomputer.co.nz/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=28...
    >>>>> Also, is there much difference between the 9400GT and 9500GT ?
    >>>> So the manufacturer has just stuck on a gignatic heatsink but no
    >>>> fan. My reponse. I'll buy it. For it will be quiet.
    >>>> BTW ASUS, make a Motherboard, with massive heatsinks for the
    >>>> bridges.
    >>>> Would a manufacturer make a graphics card that crapped out at the
    >>>> first hint of a work out?
    >>>> Look, given a large enough heat sink no fans are needed. Period, as
    >>>> the people of the U S of A would say.

    >
    >
    > This statement is fallacious. Unless the heatsink can dissapate the heat
    > it's collecting a bigger 'sink will only mean slightly longer until it goes
    > critical. You could have a heatsink as large as your head but, if it's in a
    > case with poor or no ventilation, it's only a matter of time until it can no
    > longer remove heat from the source.


    Precisely the same reasoning applies to the fan on the card. If it is
    just recirculating hot air inside the box, it will not remove heat. The
    OP's statement was correct - there will be a size of heatsink (well,
    in terms of fin area) that is equivalent to a given fan. In the extreme
    case the heatsink might not fit in the box, but that's another issue.
     
    Gib Bogle, Feb 10, 2009
    #11
  12. Old Wolf

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Somewhere on teh intarwebs Gib Bogle wrote:
    > ~misfit~ wrote:
    >> Somewhere on teh intarwebs wrote:
    >>> On Feb 5, 12:28 pm, wrote:
    >>>> On Feb 4, 5:39 pm, Gordon <> wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>> On 2009-02-04, Old Wolf <> wrote:
    >>>>>> I'm looking at getting this for my wife's PC, it has a gigantic
    >>>>>> heatsink but no fan. She has a standard '38 deg' case that has 1
    >>>>>> chassis fan. Do we need any additional cooling or can the card
    >>>>>> just go in as-is?
    >>>>>> http://www.affordablecomputer.co.nz/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=28...
    >>>>>> Also, is there much difference between the 9400GT and 9500GT ?
    >>>>> So the manufacturer has just stuck on a gignatic heatsink but no
    >>>>> fan. My reponse. I'll buy it. For it will be quiet.
    >>>>> BTW ASUS, make a Motherboard, with massive heatsinks for the
    >>>>> bridges.
    >>>>> Would a manufacturer make a graphics card that crapped out at the
    >>>>> first hint of a work out?
    >>>>> Look, given a large enough heat sink no fans are needed. Period,
    >>>>> as the people of the U S of A would say.

    >>
    >>
    >> This statement is fallacious. Unless the heatsink can dissapate the
    >> heat it's collecting a bigger 'sink will only mean slightly longer
    >> until it goes critical. You could have a heatsink as large as your
    >> head but, if it's in a case with poor or no ventilation, it's only a
    >> matter of time until it can no longer remove heat from the source.

    >
    > Precisely the same reasoning applies to the fan on the card. If it is
    > just recirculating hot air inside the box, it will not remove heat.


    Oh, yeah, I agree. However, the OP said "no fans (pl) are needed" which
    could be interpreted as case fans as well.

    > The OP's statement was correct - there will be a size of heatsink
    > (well, in terms of fin area) that is equivalent to a given fan. In the
    > extreme case the heatsink might not fit in the box, but that's
    > another issue.


    Aye. Except that, simply due to wind chill and the fact that the fan will
    likely move air to all areas of the case, allowing the case itself to
    dissapate more heat, an actively cooled card is likely to run a few degrees
    cooler than a passive one in a poorly vented / sealed case.

    Cheers,
    --
    Shaun.

    "Build a man a fire, and he`ll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and
    he`ll be warm for the rest of his life." Terry Pratchett, Jingo.
     
    ~misfit~, Feb 10, 2009
    #12
  13. Old Wolf

    Gib Bogle Guest

    ~misfit~ wrote:
    > Somewhere on teh intarwebs Gib Bogle wrote:
    >> ~misfit~ wrote:
    >>> Somewhere on teh intarwebs wrote:
    >>>> On Feb 5, 12:28 pm, wrote:
    >>>>> On Feb 4, 5:39 pm, Gordon <> wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> On 2009-02-04, Old Wolf <> wrote:
    >>>>>>> I'm looking at getting this for my wife's PC, it has a gigantic
    >>>>>>> heatsink but no fan. She has a standard '38 deg' case that has 1
    >>>>>>> chassis fan. Do we need any additional cooling or can the card
    >>>>>>> just go in as-is?
    >>>>>>> http://www.affordablecomputer.co.nz/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=28...
    >>>>>>> Also, is there much difference between the 9400GT and 9500GT ?
    >>>>>> So the manufacturer has just stuck on a gignatic heatsink but no
    >>>>>> fan. My reponse. I'll buy it. For it will be quiet.
    >>>>>> BTW ASUS, make a Motherboard, with massive heatsinks for the
    >>>>>> bridges.
    >>>>>> Would a manufacturer make a graphics card that crapped out at the
    >>>>>> first hint of a work out?
    >>>>>> Look, given a large enough heat sink no fans are needed. Period,
    >>>>>> as the people of the U S of A would say.
    >>>
    >>> This statement is fallacious. Unless the heatsink can dissapate the
    >>> heat it's collecting a bigger 'sink will only mean slightly longer
    >>> until it goes critical. You could have a heatsink as large as your
    >>> head but, if it's in a case with poor or no ventilation, it's only a
    >>> matter of time until it can no longer remove heat from the source.

    >> Precisely the same reasoning applies to the fan on the card. If it is
    >> just recirculating hot air inside the box, it will not remove heat.

    >
    > Oh, yeah, I agree. However, the OP said "no fans (pl) are needed" which
    > could be interpreted as case fans as well.
    >
    >> The OP's statement was correct - there will be a size of heatsink
    >> (well, in terms of fin area) that is equivalent to a given fan. In the
    >> extreme case the heatsink might not fit in the box, but that's
    >> another issue.

    >
    > Aye. Except that, simply due to wind chill and the fact that the fan will
    > likely move air to all areas of the case, allowing the case itself to
    > dissapate more heat, an actively cooled card is likely to run a few degrees
    > cooler than a passive one in a poorly vented / sealed case.


    Agreed.
     
    Gib Bogle, Feb 10, 2009
    #13
  14. In article <AnFil.237632$1.easynews.com>,
    says...
    > "Old Wolf" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > I'm looking at getting this for my wife's PC, it has a gigantic
    > > heatsink but no fan. She has a standard '38 deg' case that has 1
    > > chassis fan. Do we need any additional cooling or can the card just go
    > > in as-is?

    >
    > Is she planning on playing many 3D games? If not, the graphics core will be
    > utilized so little that it's rather unlikely you'll need a fan.
    >
    > If so... well, another fan certainly couldn't hurt, although you might just
    > get the card, start playing some games, and see how how the temperature in the
    > case gets before spending the money.
    >
    > > Also, is there much difference between the 9400GT and 9500GT ?

    >
    > The 9500CT has 32 "stream processors" vs. the 9400CT's 16, the 9500CT is
    > generally clocked a skosh faster than the 9400CT, and typically (but not
    > always) you find the 9500CT paired with more memory than the 9400CT. In
    > real-world gaming applications, the 9500CT is often ~10-20% faster than the
    > 9400CT... noticeably, but not huge.
    >
    > ---Joel



    I can't see the original post for this thread, so I'll just jump in the
    middle here:

    I had a 9600 gt (or gtx?) running with a zalman 2-sided passive heatsink
    and no extra fans for ages, in fact the card is now in my wife's
    machine. Works/worked a treat, and I'm a gamer (albeit no fps). The only
    reason I got a replacement gfx card was the change from agp to pci-e
    that was forced on me with a new mobo.

    h.t.h., -Peter
     
    Peter Huebner, Feb 11, 2009
    #14
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