Fussy Firefox

Discussion in 'Firefox' started by IRC Monkey, Sep 22, 2005.

  1. IRC Monkey

    IRC Monkey Guest

    Is it just me or does anyone else think that Firefox is too fussy and
    loads of ballache compared with Mozilla Suite, which in contrast is a
    real jem. Sleek and concise. Obviously both are preferable to Mr Gates'
    abomination IE6, bit I still think there's just too much faff to
    Firefox. Does anyone else agree or is it just me...?
     
    IRC Monkey, Sep 22, 2005
    #1
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  2. IRC Monkey

    Ed Mullen Guest

    IRC Monkey wrote:
    > Is it just me or does anyone else think that Firefox is too fussy and
    > loads of ballache compared with Mozilla Suite, which in contrast is a
    > real jem. Sleek and concise. Obviously both are preferable to Mr Gates'
    > abomination IE6, bit I still think there's just too much faff to
    > Firefox. Does anyone else agree or is it just me...?
    >


    Fear not, you are not alone. ;-)

    http://mozilla.edmullen.net/seamonkey.html

    --
    Ed Mullen
    http://edmullen.net
    http://mozilla.edmullen.net
    Just for today, I will not sit in my living room all day in my
    underwear. Instead, I will move my computer into the bedroom.
     
    Ed Mullen, Sep 22, 2005
    #2
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  3. IRC Monkey

    Guest

    IRC Monkey wrote:
    > Is it just me or does anyone else think that Firefox is too fussy and
    > loads of ballache compared with Mozilla Suite, which in contrast is a
    > real jem. Sleek and concise. Obviously both are preferable to Mr Gates'
    > abomination IE6, bit I still think there's just too much faff to
    > Firefox. Does anyone else agree or is it just me...?



    so what do you feel that Mozilla Suite does better than Firefox ?

    not flaming - just curious :)
     
    , Sep 22, 2005
    #3
  4. IRC Monkey

    Ed Mullen Guest

    wrote:
    > IRC Monkey wrote:
    >
    >> Is it just me or does anyone else think that Firefox is too fussy and
    >> loads of ballache compared with Mozilla Suite, which in contrast is a
    >> real jem. Sleek and concise. Obviously both are preferable to Mr Gates'
    >> abomination IE6, bit I still think there's just too much faff to
    >> Firefox. Does anyone else agree or is it just me...?

    >
    >
    >
    > so what do you feel that Mozilla Suite does better than Firefox ?
    >
    > not flaming - just curious :)
    >
    >
    >


    Understood, no flames necessary.

    Some thoughts are on the page link I noted previously:

    http://mozilla.edmullen.net/seamonkey.html

    In brief, but more detail on my site, and just MHO:

    - too much was stripped from the Firefox (and Thunderbird) UI in the way
    of user settings, leaving FF "simpler" for "average users" but much
    harder to setup and maintain. Witness all the questions here and other
    forums. Instead of pointing people to menu choices we've got to explain
    all about "about:config". and you need to install an extension to get
    "about:config" in TB. Not user-friendly IMHO.

    - Disintegration of the apps. FF and Thunderbird are OK as far as they
    go presently but there is little or no tie-in of UI, functionality,
    look-and-feel, etc. Again, design-wise it may have made some sense for
    targeted users who only wanted one or the other. But dealing with two
    separate apps ultimately complicates things, again, IMHO. Especially
    for novice/average users who the knowledgeable of us must support in one
    fashion or another.

    - FF and TB "broke" perfectly good functionality that exists in the
    Suite. A prime example is Sidebars. The apps have been simplified via
    lobotomy.

    If Mozilla.Org had put the same big push on updating and marketing the
    Suite as it did to develop FF and TB, I personally think things would be
    much better, and much further along. The Foundation spread itself thin
    (witness the abandonment of the Suite) with the inevitable result.
    Sure, FF is getting lots of press. And lots of valid criticism. It's
    still half-baked. Stick a toothpick in it, it ain't done by a long
    shot. And the Suite, ignored and shuttled aside, at version 1.7.11
    still kicks it's butt overall.

    Again, just one goofball's opinion. ;-)

    --
    Ed Mullen
    http://edmullen.net
    http://mozilla.edmullen.net
    What's another word for synonym?
     
    Ed Mullen, Sep 22, 2005
    #4
  5. IRC Monkey

    gwtc Guest

    Ed Mullen wrote:

    > wrote:
    >
    >> IRC Monkey wrote:
    >>
    >>> Is it just me or does anyone else think that Firefox is too fussy and
    >>> loads of ballache compared with Mozilla Suite, which in contrast is a
    >>> real jem. Sleek and concise. Obviously both are preferable to Mr Gates'
    >>> abomination IE6, bit I still think there's just too much faff to
    >>> Firefox. Does anyone else agree or is it just me...?

    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> so what do you feel that Mozilla Suite does better than Firefox ?
    >>
    >> not flaming - just curious :)
    >>
    >>
    >>

    >
    > Understood, no flames necessary.
    >
    > Some thoughts are on the page link I noted previously:
    >
    > http://mozilla.edmullen.net/seamonkey.html
    >
    > In brief, but more detail on my site, and just MHO:
    >
    > - too much was stripped from the Firefox (and Thunderbird) UI in the way
    > of user settings, leaving FF "simpler" for "average users" but much
    > harder to setup and maintain. Witness all the questions here and other
    > forums. Instead of pointing people to menu choices we've got to explain
    > all about "about:config". and you need to install an extension to get
    > "about:config" in TB. Not user-friendly IMHO.
    >
    > - Disintegration of the apps. FF and Thunderbird are OK as far as they
    > go presently but there is little or no tie-in of UI, functionality,
    > look-and-feel, etc. Again, design-wise it may have made some sense for
    > targeted users who only wanted one or the other. But dealing with two
    > separate apps ultimately complicates things, again, IMHO. Especially
    > for novice/average users who the knowledgeable of us must support in one
    > fashion or another.
    >
    > - FF and TB "broke" perfectly good functionality that exists in the
    > Suite. A prime example is Sidebars. The apps have been simplified via
    > lobotomy.
    >
    > If Mozilla.Org had put the same big push on updating and marketing the
    > Suite as it did to develop FF and TB, I personally think things would be
    > much better, and much further along. The Foundation spread itself thin
    > (witness the abandonment of the Suite) with the inevitable result. Sure,
    > FF is getting lots of press. And lots of valid criticism. It's still
    > half-baked. Stick a toothpick in it, it ain't done by a long shot. And
    > the Suite, ignored and shuttled aside, at version 1.7.11 still kicks
    > it's butt overall.
    >
    > Again, just one goofball's opinion. ;-)
    >

    The other thing is that to get FF and TB to act like The Suite, you
    need to install lots of extensions, and all these extensions could add
    problems down the road.

    So, long live the Suite -- errr, rather now its SeaMonkey!!!!
     
    gwtc, Sep 22, 2005
    #5
  6. IRC Monkey

    IRC Monkey Guest

    I dont think Mozilla Suite 1.7.12 does anything better than Firefox &
    Thunderbird, its just that when I was using Firefox & Thunderbird I
    spent a lot of my spare time messing about with extentions and add-ons
    and settings and so on, where as with Mozilla Suite, the only "Messing"
    I do is downloading the latest version due to security issues. I cant
    remember the last time I spent any time "Messing" with Mozilla
    Suite....
    IMHO Mozilla Suite has got to be the most complete browser ever and
    believe me having spent a lot of time testing various browsers with the
    likes of Opera & IE (including ALL of the IE copy browsers - you know
    the ones, its where the designers cant be bothered to design their own
    platform but merely steal Mr Gates' ideas and tart them up in pretty
    colours and claim them as their own).
     
    IRC Monkey, Sep 22, 2005
    #6
  7. IRC Monkey

    Ed Mullen Guest

    gwtc wrote:
    > Ed Mullen wrote:
    >
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>> IRC Monkey wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Is it just me or does anyone else think that Firefox is too fussy and
    >>>> loads of ballache compared with Mozilla Suite, which in contrast is a
    >>>> real jem. Sleek and concise. Obviously both are preferable to Mr Gates'
    >>>> abomination IE6, bit I still think there's just too much faff to
    >>>> Firefox. Does anyone else agree or is it just me...?
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> so what do you feel that Mozilla Suite does better than Firefox ?
    >>>
    >>> not flaming - just curious :)
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>

    >>
    >> Understood, no flames necessary.
    >>
    >> Some thoughts are on the page link I noted previously:
    >>
    >> http://mozilla.edmullen.net/seamonkey.html
    >>
    >> In brief, but more detail on my site, and just MHO:
    >>
    >> - too much was stripped from the Firefox (and Thunderbird) UI in the
    >> way of user settings, leaving FF "simpler" for "average users" but
    >> much harder to setup and maintain. Witness all the questions here and
    >> other forums. Instead of pointing people to menu choices we've got to
    >> explain all about "about:config". and you need to install an extension
    >> to get "about:config" in TB. Not user-friendly IMHO.
    >>
    >> - Disintegration of the apps. FF and Thunderbird are OK as far as
    >> they go presently but there is little or no tie-in of UI,
    >> functionality, look-and-feel, etc. Again, design-wise it may have
    >> made some sense for targeted users who only wanted one or the other.
    >> But dealing with two separate apps ultimately complicates things,
    >> again, IMHO. Especially for novice/average users who the
    >> knowledgeable of us must support in one fashion or another.
    >>
    >> - FF and TB "broke" perfectly good functionality that exists in the
    >> Suite. A prime example is Sidebars. The apps have been simplified
    >> via lobotomy.
    >>
    >> If Mozilla.Org had put the same big push on updating and marketing the
    >> Suite as it did to develop FF and TB, I personally think things would
    >> be much better, and much further along. The Foundation spread itself
    >> thin (witness the abandonment of the Suite) with the inevitable
    >> result. Sure, FF is getting lots of press. And lots of valid
    >> criticism. It's still half-baked. Stick a toothpick in it, it ain't
    >> done by a long shot. And the Suite, ignored and shuttled aside, at
    >> version 1.7.11 still kicks it's butt overall.
    >>
    >> Again, just one goofball's opinion. ;-)
    >>

    > The other thing is that to get FF and TB to act like The Suite, you need
    > to install lots of extensions, and all these extensions could add
    > problems down the road.
    >
    > So, long live the Suite -- errr, rather now its SeaMonkey!!!!


    Couldn't agree more; the extension concept is great but if you have to
    install a bunch of them to match the functionality of the Suite the
    arguments about small footprint, simplicity, and ease-of-use pretty much
    are negated. FF does have better extension management, I'll give it
    that. But it's still something that the user has to manage especially
    when upgrading.

    I do use a few extensions in the Suite for *extra* functionality but I
    use the same ones in FF which levels the comparison yet again.

    --
    Ed Mullen
    http://edmullen.net
    http://mozilla.edmullen.net
    I think there is a world market for maybe five computers. - Thomas J.
    Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943
     
    Ed Mullen, Sep 22, 2005
    #7
  8. IRC Monkey

    Jim Scott Guest

    On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 12:22:44 -0400, Ed Mullen wrote:

    > gwtc wrote:
    >> Ed Mullen wrote:
    >>
    >>> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> IRC Monkey wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Is it just me or does anyone else think that Firefox is too fussy and
    >>>>> loads of ballache compared with Mozilla Suite, which in contrast is a
    >>>>> real jem. Sleek and concise. Obviously both are preferable to Mr Gates'
    >>>>> abomination IE6, bit I still think there's just too much faff to
    >>>>> Firefox. Does anyone else agree or is it just me...?
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> so what do you feel that Mozilla Suite does better than Firefox ?
    >>>>
    >>>> not flaming - just curious :)
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> Understood, no flames necessary.
    >>>
    >>> Some thoughts are on the page link I noted previously:
    >>>
    >>> http://mozilla.edmullen.net/seamonkey.html
    >>>
    >>> In brief, but more detail on my site, and just MHO:
    >>>
    >>> - too much was stripped from the Firefox (and Thunderbird) UI in the
    >>> way of user settings, leaving FF "simpler" for "average users" but
    >>> much harder to setup and maintain. Witness all the questions here and
    >>> other forums. Instead of pointing people to menu choices we've got to
    >>> explain all about "about:config". and you need to install an extension
    >>> to get "about:config" in TB. Not user-friendly IMHO.
    >>>
    >>> - Disintegration of the apps. FF and Thunderbird are OK as far as
    >>> they go presently but there is little or no tie-in of UI,
    >>> functionality, look-and-feel, etc. Again, design-wise it may have
    >>> made some sense for targeted users who only wanted one or the other.
    >>> But dealing with two separate apps ultimately complicates things,
    >>> again, IMHO. Especially for novice/average users who the
    >>> knowledgeable of us must support in one fashion or another.
    >>>
    >>> - FF and TB "broke" perfectly good functionality that exists in the
    >>> Suite. A prime example is Sidebars. The apps have been simplified
    >>> via lobotomy.
    >>>
    >>> If Mozilla.Org had put the same big push on updating and marketing the
    >>> Suite as it did to develop FF and TB, I personally think things would
    >>> be much better, and much further along. The Foundation spread itself
    >>> thin (witness the abandonment of the Suite) with the inevitable
    >>> result. Sure, FF is getting lots of press. And lots of valid
    >>> criticism. It's still half-baked. Stick a toothpick in it, it ain't
    >>> done by a long shot. And the Suite, ignored and shuttled aside, at
    >>> version 1.7.11 still kicks it's butt overall.
    >>>
    >>> Again, just one goofball's opinion. ;-)
    >>>

    >> The other thing is that to get FF and TB to act like The Suite, you need
    >> to install lots of extensions, and all these extensions could add
    >> problems down the road.
    >>
    >> So, long live the Suite -- errr, rather now its SeaMonkey!!!!

    >
    > Couldn't agree more; the extension concept is great but if you have to
    > install a bunch of them to match the functionality of the Suite the
    > arguments about small footprint, simplicity, and ease-of-use pretty much
    > are negated. FF does have better extension management, I'll give it
    > that. But it's still something that the user has to manage especially
    > when upgrading.
    >
    > I do use a few extensions in the Suite for *extra* functionality but I
    > use the same ones in FF which levels the comparison yet again.


    I normally use FF and when I say this to friends they show interest, but to
    be honest most of them couldn't cope with the concept of extensions to do
    things that IE does out of the box. Opera is attracting me for this reason,
    but even that needs tweaking. I end up recommending one of the 'shells'
    (Avant usually) to those who want tabbed browsing without understanding
    what they are really doing.
    --
    Jim
    Tyneside UK
     
    Jim Scott, Sep 22, 2005
    #8
  9. Ed Mullen wrote:
    > gwtc wrote:
    >> Ed Mullen wrote:
    >>
    >>> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> IRC Monkey wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Is it just me or does anyone else think that Firefox is too fussy and
    >>>>> loads of ballache compared with Mozilla Suite, which in contrast is a
    >>>>> real jem. Sleek and concise. Obviously both are preferable to Mr
    >>>>> Gates'
    >>>>> abomination IE6, bit I still think there's just too much faff to
    >>>>> Firefox. Does anyone else agree or is it just me...?
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> so what do you feel that Mozilla Suite does better than Firefox ?
    >>>>
    >>>> not flaming - just curious :)
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> Understood, no flames necessary.
    >>>
    >>> Some thoughts are on the page link I noted previously:
    >>>
    >>> http://mozilla.edmullen.net/seamonkey.html
    >>>
    >>> In brief, but more detail on my site, and just MHO:
    >>>
    >>> - too much was stripped from the Firefox (and Thunderbird) UI in the
    >>> way of user settings, leaving FF "simpler" for "average users" but
    >>> much harder to setup and maintain. Witness all the questions here
    >>> and other forums. Instead of pointing people to menu choices we've
    >>> got to explain all about "about:config". and you need to install an
    >>> extension to get "about:config" in TB. Not user-friendly IMHO.
    >>>
    >>> - Disintegration of the apps. FF and Thunderbird are OK as far as
    >>> they go presently but there is little or no tie-in of UI,
    >>> functionality, look-and-feel, etc. Again, design-wise it may have
    >>> made some sense for targeted users who only wanted one or the other.
    >>> But dealing with two separate apps ultimately complicates things,
    >>> again, IMHO. Especially for novice/average users who the
    >>> knowledgeable of us must support in one fashion or another.
    >>>
    >>> - FF and TB "broke" perfectly good functionality that exists in the
    >>> Suite. A prime example is Sidebars. The apps have been simplified
    >>> via lobotomy.
    >>>
    >>> If Mozilla.Org had put the same big push on updating and marketing
    >>> the Suite as it did to develop FF and TB, I personally think things
    >>> would be much better, and much further along. The Foundation spread
    >>> itself thin (witness the abandonment of the Suite) with the
    >>> inevitable result. Sure, FF is getting lots of press. And lots of
    >>> valid criticism. It's still half-baked. Stick a toothpick in it, it
    >>> ain't done by a long shot. And the Suite, ignored and shuttled
    >>> aside, at version 1.7.11 still kicks it's butt overall.
    >>>
    >>> Again, just one goofball's opinion. ;-)
    >>>

    >> The other thing is that to get FF and TB to act like The Suite, you
    >> need to install lots of extensions, and all these extensions could add
    >> problems down the road.
    >>
    >> So, long live the Suite -- errr, rather now its SeaMonkey!!!!

    >
    > Couldn't agree more; the extension concept is great but if you have to
    > install a bunch of them to match the functionality of the Suite the
    > arguments about small footprint, simplicity, and ease-of-use pretty much
    > are negated. FF does have better extension management, I'll give it
    > that. But it's still something that the user has to manage especially
    > when upgrading.
    >
    > I do use a few extensions in the Suite for *extra* functionality but I
    > use the same ones in FF which levels the comparison yet again.
    >


    Ed, I'd be interested in knowing which extensions you find add
    functionality to Moz/Seamonkey. I've got:

    Prefbar
    Web Developer's Toolbar
    Home Button
    Extension Manager 2.0

    I have TBE on, but I'm beginning to sense that the native tabbed
    browsing has improved enough that I don't really need it.

    Lee
     
    Leonidas Jones, Sep 23, 2005
    #9
  10. IRC Monkey

    gwtc Guest

    Leonidas Jones wrote:

    > Ed Mullen wrote:
    >
    >> gwtc wrote:
    >>
    >>> Ed Mullen wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> IRC Monkey wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> Is it just me or does anyone else think that Firefox is too fussy and
    >>>>>> loads of ballache compared with Mozilla Suite, which in contrast is a
    >>>>>> real jem. Sleek and concise. Obviously both are preferable to Mr
    >>>>>> Gates'
    >>>>>> abomination IE6, bit I still think there's just too much faff to
    >>>>>> Firefox. Does anyone else agree or is it just me...?
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> so what do you feel that Mozilla Suite does better than Firefox ?
    >>>>>
    >>>>> not flaming - just curious :)
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> Understood, no flames necessary.
    >>>>
    >>>> Some thoughts are on the page link I noted previously:
    >>>>
    >>>> http://mozilla.edmullen.net/seamonkey.html
    >>>>
    >>>> In brief, but more detail on my site, and just MHO:
    >>>>
    >>>> - too much was stripped from the Firefox (and Thunderbird) UI in the
    >>>> way of user settings, leaving FF "simpler" for "average users" but
    >>>> much harder to setup and maintain. Witness all the questions here
    >>>> and other forums. Instead of pointing people to menu choices we've
    >>>> got to explain all about "about:config". and you need to install an
    >>>> extension to get "about:config" in TB. Not user-friendly IMHO.
    >>>>
    >>>> - Disintegration of the apps. FF and Thunderbird are OK as far as
    >>>> they go presently but there is little or no tie-in of UI,
    >>>> functionality, look-and-feel, etc. Again, design-wise it may have
    >>>> made some sense for targeted users who only wanted one or the
    >>>> other. But dealing with two separate apps ultimately complicates
    >>>> things, again, IMHO. Especially for novice/average users who the
    >>>> knowledgeable of us must support in one fashion or another.
    >>>>
    >>>> - FF and TB "broke" perfectly good functionality that exists in the
    >>>> Suite. A prime example is Sidebars. The apps have been simplified
    >>>> via lobotomy.
    >>>>
    >>>> If Mozilla.Org had put the same big push on updating and marketing
    >>>> the Suite as it did to develop FF and TB, I personally think things
    >>>> would be much better, and much further along. The Foundation spread
    >>>> itself thin (witness the abandonment of the Suite) with the
    >>>> inevitable result. Sure, FF is getting lots of press. And lots of
    >>>> valid criticism. It's still half-baked. Stick a toothpick in it,
    >>>> it ain't done by a long shot. And the Suite, ignored and shuttled
    >>>> aside, at version 1.7.11 still kicks it's butt overall.
    >>>>
    >>>> Again, just one goofball's opinion. ;-)
    >>>>
    >>> The other thing is that to get FF and TB to act like The Suite, you
    >>> need to install lots of extensions, and all these extensions could
    >>> add problems down the road.
    >>>
    >>> So, long live the Suite -- errr, rather now its SeaMonkey!!!!

    >>
    >>
    >> Couldn't agree more; the extension concept is great but if you have to
    >> install a bunch of them to match the functionality of the Suite the
    >> arguments about small footprint, simplicity, and ease-of-use pretty
    >> much are negated. FF does have better extension management, I'll give
    >> it that. But it's still something that the user has to manage
    >> especially when upgrading.
    >>
    >> I do use a few extensions in the Suite for *extra* functionality but I
    >> use the same ones in FF which levels the comparison yet again.
    >>

    >
    > Ed, I'd be interested in knowing which extensions you find add
    > functionality to Moz/Seamonkey. I've got:
    >
    > Prefbar
    > Web Developer's Toolbar
    > Home Button
    > Extension Manager 2.0
    >
    > I have TBE on, but I'm beginning to sense that the native tabbed
    > browsing has improved enough that I don't really need it.
    >
    > Lee

    For me its Multizilla, and the old version of Extension Uninstaller.
     
    gwtc, Sep 24, 2005
    #10
  11. gwtc wrote:
    > Leonidas Jones wrote:
    >
    >> Ed Mullen wrote:
    >>
    >>> gwtc wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Ed Mullen wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> IRC Monkey wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Is it just me or does anyone else think that Firefox is too fussy
    >>>>>>> and
    >>>>>>> loads of ballache compared with Mozilla Suite, which in contrast
    >>>>>>> is a
    >>>>>>> real jem. Sleek and concise. Obviously both are preferable to Mr
    >>>>>>> Gates'
    >>>>>>> abomination IE6, bit I still think there's just too much faff to
    >>>>>>> Firefox. Does anyone else agree or is it just me...?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> so what do you feel that Mozilla Suite does better than Firefox ?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> not flaming - just curious :)
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Understood, no flames necessary.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Some thoughts are on the page link I noted previously:
    >>>>>
    >>>>> http://mozilla.edmullen.net/seamonkey.html
    >>>>>
    >>>>> In brief, but more detail on my site, and just MHO:
    >>>>>
    >>>>> - too much was stripped from the Firefox (and Thunderbird) UI in
    >>>>> the way of user settings, leaving FF "simpler" for "average users"
    >>>>> but much harder to setup and maintain. Witness all the questions
    >>>>> here and other forums. Instead of pointing people to menu choices
    >>>>> we've got to explain all about "about:config". and you need to
    >>>>> install an extension to get "about:config" in TB. Not
    >>>>> user-friendly IMHO.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> - Disintegration of the apps. FF and Thunderbird are OK as far as
    >>>>> they go presently but there is little or no tie-in of UI,
    >>>>> functionality, look-and-feel, etc. Again, design-wise it may have
    >>>>> made some sense for targeted users who only wanted one or the
    >>>>> other. But dealing with two separate apps ultimately complicates
    >>>>> things, again, IMHO. Especially for novice/average users who the
    >>>>> knowledgeable of us must support in one fashion or another.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> - FF and TB "broke" perfectly good functionality that exists in the
    >>>>> Suite. A prime example is Sidebars. The apps have been simplified
    >>>>> via lobotomy.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> If Mozilla.Org had put the same big push on updating and marketing
    >>>>> the Suite as it did to develop FF and TB, I personally think things
    >>>>> would be much better, and much further along. The Foundation
    >>>>> spread itself thin (witness the abandonment of the Suite) with the
    >>>>> inevitable result. Sure, FF is getting lots of press. And lots of
    >>>>> valid criticism. It's still half-baked. Stick a toothpick in it,
    >>>>> it ain't done by a long shot. And the Suite, ignored and shuttled
    >>>>> aside, at version 1.7.11 still kicks it's butt overall.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Again, just one goofball's opinion. ;-)
    >>>>>
    >>>> The other thing is that to get FF and TB to act like The Suite, you
    >>>> need to install lots of extensions, and all these extensions could
    >>>> add problems down the road.
    >>>>
    >>>> So, long live the Suite -- errr, rather now its SeaMonkey!!!!
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Couldn't agree more; the extension concept is great but if you have
    >>> to install a bunch of them to match the functionality of the Suite
    >>> the arguments about small footprint, simplicity, and ease-of-use
    >>> pretty much are negated. FF does have better extension management,
    >>> I'll give it that. But it's still something that the user has to
    >>> manage especially when upgrading.
    >>>
    >>> I do use a few extensions in the Suite for *extra* functionality but
    >>> I use the same ones in FF which levels the comparison yet again.
    >>>

    >>
    >> Ed, I'd be interested in knowing which extensions you find add
    >> functionality to Moz/Seamonkey. I've got:
    >>
    >> Prefbar
    >> Web Developer's Toolbar
    >> Home Button
    >> Extension Manager 2.0
    >>
    >> I have TBE on, but I'm beginning to sense that the native tabbed
    >> browsing has improved enough that I don't really need it.
    >>
    >> Lee

    >
    > For me its Multizilla, and the old version of Extension Uninstaller.


    I never had much luck with Multizilla. I used it for a while when TBE
    was acting up. Both have the problem of being immensely powerful
    extensions, that, while they add great functionality, they can both
    cause problems.

    I say that, of course, as a TBE user, so take the comment with the
    proverbial grain of salt.

    LEE
     
    Leonidas Jones, Sep 24, 2005
    #11
  12. Leonidas Jones wrote:
    > gwtc wrote:
    >
    >> Leonidas Jones wrote:
    >>
    >>> Ed Mullen wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> gwtc wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Ed Mullen wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> IRC Monkey wrote:
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> Is it just me or does anyone else think that Firefox is too
    >>>>>>>> fussy and
    >>>>>>>> loads of ballache compared with Mozilla Suite, which in contrast
    >>>>>>>> is a
    >>>>>>>> real jem. Sleek and concise. Obviously both are preferable to Mr
    >>>>>>>> Gates'
    >>>>>>>> abomination IE6, bit I still think there's just too much faff to
    >>>>>>>> Firefox. Does anyone else agree or is it just me...?
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> so what do you feel that Mozilla Suite does better than Firefox ?
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> not flaming - just curious :)
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Understood, no flames necessary.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Some thoughts are on the page link I noted previously:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> http://mozilla.edmullen.net/seamonkey.html
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> In brief, but more detail on my site, and just MHO:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> - too much was stripped from the Firefox (and Thunderbird) UI in
    >>>>>> the way of user settings, leaving FF "simpler" for "average users"
    >>>>>> but much harder to setup and maintain. Witness all the questions
    >>>>>> here and other forums. Instead of pointing people to menu choices
    >>>>>> we've got to explain all about "about:config". and you need to
    >>>>>> install an extension to get "about:config" in TB. Not
    >>>>>> user-friendly IMHO.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> - Disintegration of the apps. FF and Thunderbird are OK as far as
    >>>>>> they go presently but there is little or no tie-in of UI,
    >>>>>> functionality, look-and-feel, etc. Again, design-wise it may have
    >>>>>> made some sense for targeted users who only wanted one or the
    >>>>>> other. But dealing with two separate apps ultimately complicates
    >>>>>> things, again, IMHO. Especially for novice/average users who the
    >>>>>> knowledgeable of us must support in one fashion or another.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> - FF and TB "broke" perfectly good functionality that exists in
    >>>>>> the Suite. A prime example is Sidebars. The apps have been
    >>>>>> simplified via lobotomy.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> If Mozilla.Org had put the same big push on updating and marketing
    >>>>>> the Suite as it did to develop FF and TB, I personally think
    >>>>>> things would be much better, and much further along. The
    >>>>>> Foundation spread itself thin (witness the abandonment of the
    >>>>>> Suite) with the inevitable result. Sure, FF is getting lots of
    >>>>>> press. And lots of valid criticism. It's still half-baked.
    >>>>>> Stick a toothpick in it, it ain't done by a long shot. And the
    >>>>>> Suite, ignored and shuttled aside, at version 1.7.11 still kicks
    >>>>>> it's butt overall.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Again, just one goofball's opinion. ;-)
    >>>>>>
    >>>>> The other thing is that to get FF and TB to act like The Suite, you
    >>>>> need to install lots of extensions, and all these extensions could
    >>>>> add problems down the road.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> So, long live the Suite -- errr, rather now its SeaMonkey!!!!
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> Couldn't agree more; the extension concept is great but if you have
    >>>> to install a bunch of them to match the functionality of the Suite
    >>>> the arguments about small footprint, simplicity, and ease-of-use
    >>>> pretty much are negated. FF does have better extension management,
    >>>> I'll give it that. But it's still something that the user has to
    >>>> manage especially when upgrading.
    >>>>
    >>>> I do use a few extensions in the Suite for *extra* functionality but
    >>>> I use the same ones in FF which levels the comparison yet again.
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> Ed, I'd be interested in knowing which extensions you find add
    >>> functionality to Moz/Seamonkey. I've got:
    >>>
    >>> Prefbar
    >>> Web Developer's Toolbar
    >>> Home Button
    >>> Extension Manager 2.0
    >>>
    >>> I have TBE on, but I'm beginning to sense that the native tabbed
    >>> browsing has improved enough that I don't really need it.
    >>>
    >>> Lee

    >>
    >>
    >> For me its Multizilla, and the old version of Extension Uninstaller.

    >
    >
    > I never had much luck with Multizilla. I used it for a while when TBE
    > was acting up. Both have the problem of being immensely powerful
    > extensions, that, while they add great functionality, they can both
    > cause problems.
    >
    > I say that, of course, as a TBE user, so take the comment with the
    > proverbial grain of salt.
    >
    > LEE


    Where are my manners, thank you for the response. It is always
    interesting to compare what other users feel they have to have in a browser.

    Lee
     
    Leonidas Jones, Sep 24, 2005
    #12
  13. IRC Monkey

    gwtc Guest

    Leonidas Jones wrote:

    > Leonidas Jones wrote:
    >
    >> gwtc wrote:
    >>
    >>> Leonidas Jones wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Ed Mullen wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> gwtc wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> Ed Mullen wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> wrote:
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> IRC Monkey wrote:
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> Is it just me or does anyone else think that Firefox is too
    >>>>>>>>> fussy and
    >>>>>>>>> loads of ballache compared with Mozilla Suite, which in
    >>>>>>>>> contrast is a
    >>>>>>>>> real jem. Sleek and concise. Obviously both are preferable to
    >>>>>>>>> Mr Gates'
    >>>>>>>>> abomination IE6, bit I still think there's just too much faff to
    >>>>>>>>> Firefox. Does anyone else agree or is it just me...?
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> so what do you feel that Mozilla Suite does better than Firefox ?
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> not flaming - just curious :)
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Understood, no flames necessary.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Some thoughts are on the page link I noted previously:
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> http://mozilla.edmullen.net/seamonkey.html
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> In brief, but more detail on my site, and just MHO:
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> - too much was stripped from the Firefox (and Thunderbird) UI in
    >>>>>>> the way of user settings, leaving FF "simpler" for "average
    >>>>>>> users" but much harder to setup and maintain. Witness all the
    >>>>>>> questions here and other forums. Instead of pointing people to
    >>>>>>> menu choices we've got to explain all about "about:config". and
    >>>>>>> you need to install an extension to get "about:config" in TB.
    >>>>>>> Not user-friendly IMHO.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> - Disintegration of the apps. FF and Thunderbird are OK as far
    >>>>>>> as they go presently but there is little or no tie-in of UI,
    >>>>>>> functionality, look-and-feel, etc. Again, design-wise it may
    >>>>>>> have made some sense for targeted users who only wanted one or
    >>>>>>> the other. But dealing with two separate apps ultimately
    >>>>>>> complicates things, again, IMHO. Especially for novice/average
    >>>>>>> users who the knowledgeable of us must support in one fashion or
    >>>>>>> another.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> - FF and TB "broke" perfectly good functionality that exists in
    >>>>>>> the Suite. A prime example is Sidebars. The apps have been
    >>>>>>> simplified via lobotomy.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> If Mozilla.Org had put the same big push on updating and
    >>>>>>> marketing the Suite as it did to develop FF and TB, I personally
    >>>>>>> think things would be much better, and much further along. The
    >>>>>>> Foundation spread itself thin (witness the abandonment of the
    >>>>>>> Suite) with the inevitable result. Sure, FF is getting lots of
    >>>>>>> press. And lots of valid criticism. It's still half-baked.
    >>>>>>> Stick a toothpick in it, it ain't done by a long shot. And the
    >>>>>>> Suite, ignored and shuttled aside, at version 1.7.11 still kicks
    >>>>>>> it's butt overall.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Again, just one goofball's opinion. ;-)
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>> The other thing is that to get FF and TB to act like The Suite,
    >>>>>> you need to install lots of extensions, and all these extensions
    >>>>>> could add problems down the road.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> So, long live the Suite -- errr, rather now its SeaMonkey!!!!
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Couldn't agree more; the extension concept is great but if you have
    >>>>> to install a bunch of them to match the functionality of the Suite
    >>>>> the arguments about small footprint, simplicity, and ease-of-use
    >>>>> pretty much are negated. FF does have better extension management,
    >>>>> I'll give it that. But it's still something that the user has to
    >>>>> manage especially when upgrading.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> I do use a few extensions in the Suite for *extra* functionality
    >>>>> but I use the same ones in FF which levels the comparison yet again.
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> Ed, I'd be interested in knowing which extensions you find add
    >>>> functionality to Moz/Seamonkey. I've got:
    >>>>
    >>>> Prefbar
    >>>> Web Developer's Toolbar
    >>>> Home Button
    >>>> Extension Manager 2.0
    >>>>
    >>>> I have TBE on, but I'm beginning to sense that the native tabbed
    >>>> browsing has improved enough that I don't really need it.
    >>>>
    >>>> Lee
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> For me its Multizilla, and the old version of Extension Uninstaller.

    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> I never had much luck with Multizilla. I used it for a while when TBE
    >> was acting up. Both have the problem of being immensely powerful
    >> extensions, that, while they add great functionality, they can both
    >> cause problems.
    >>
    >> I say that, of course, as a TBE user, so take the comment with the
    >> proverbial grain of salt.
    >>
    >> LEE

    >
    >
    > Where are my manners, thank you for the response. It is always
    > interesting to compare what other users feel they have to have in a
    > browser.
    >
    > Lee

    I've been using Multizilla since I discovered Moz way back at 1.2.1.
    I've only had two problems with it. The first was when I upgraded
    once and it caused a problem with bookmarks. This was also about the
    same time that TBE had a problem with bookmarks, too. I was using
    version 1630 for the longest time, then I upgraded Moz to 1.7.11 and
    Multi failed to work. So I upgraded and things worked again.

    The thing I like about Multizilla is the tabbed features, the QPrefs
    button, and the other bonuses not found elsewhere. For me, I would be
    lost without my Multi.
     
    gwtc, Sep 24, 2005
    #13
  14. gwtc wrote:
    > Leonidas Jones wrote:
    >
    >> Leonidas Jones wrote:
    >>
    >>> gwtc wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Leonidas Jones wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Ed Mullen wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> gwtc wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Ed Mullen wrote:
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> wrote:
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> IRC Monkey wrote:
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>> Is it just me or does anyone else think that Firefox is too
    >>>>>>>>>> fussy and
    >>>>>>>>>> loads of ballache compared with Mozilla Suite, which in
    >>>>>>>>>> contrast is a
    >>>>>>>>>> real jem. Sleek and concise. Obviously both are preferable to
    >>>>>>>>>> Mr Gates'
    >>>>>>>>>> abomination IE6, bit I still think there's just too much faff to
    >>>>>>>>>> Firefox. Does anyone else agree or is it just me...?
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> so what do you feel that Mozilla Suite does better than Firefox ?
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> not flaming - just curious :)
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> Understood, no flames necessary.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> Some thoughts are on the page link I noted previously:
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> http://mozilla.edmullen.net/seamonkey.html
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> In brief, but more detail on my site, and just MHO:
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> - too much was stripped from the Firefox (and Thunderbird) UI in
    >>>>>>>> the way of user settings, leaving FF "simpler" for "average
    >>>>>>>> users" but much harder to setup and maintain. Witness all the
    >>>>>>>> questions here and other forums. Instead of pointing people to
    >>>>>>>> menu choices we've got to explain all about "about:config". and
    >>>>>>>> you need to install an extension to get "about:config" in TB.
    >>>>>>>> Not user-friendly IMHO.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> - Disintegration of the apps. FF and Thunderbird are OK as far
    >>>>>>>> as they go presently but there is little or no tie-in of UI,
    >>>>>>>> functionality, look-and-feel, etc. Again, design-wise it may
    >>>>>>>> have made some sense for targeted users who only wanted one or
    >>>>>>>> the other. But dealing with two separate apps ultimately
    >>>>>>>> complicates things, again, IMHO. Especially for novice/average
    >>>>>>>> users who the knowledgeable of us must support in one fashion or
    >>>>>>>> another.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> - FF and TB "broke" perfectly good functionality that exists in
    >>>>>>>> the Suite. A prime example is Sidebars. The apps have been
    >>>>>>>> simplified via lobotomy.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> If Mozilla.Org had put the same big push on updating and
    >>>>>>>> marketing the Suite as it did to develop FF and TB, I personally
    >>>>>>>> think things would be much better, and much further along. The
    >>>>>>>> Foundation spread itself thin (witness the abandonment of the
    >>>>>>>> Suite) with the inevitable result. Sure, FF is getting lots of
    >>>>>>>> press. And lots of valid criticism. It's still half-baked.
    >>>>>>>> Stick a toothpick in it, it ain't done by a long shot. And the
    >>>>>>>> Suite, ignored and shuttled aside, at version 1.7.11 still kicks
    >>>>>>>> it's butt overall.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> Again, just one goofball's opinion. ;-)
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> The other thing is that to get FF and TB to act like The Suite,
    >>>>>>> you need to install lots of extensions, and all these extensions
    >>>>>>> could add problems down the road.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> So, long live the Suite -- errr, rather now its SeaMonkey!!!!
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Couldn't agree more; the extension concept is great but if you
    >>>>>> have to install a bunch of them to match the functionality of the
    >>>>>> Suite the arguments about small footprint, simplicity, and
    >>>>>> ease-of-use pretty much are negated. FF does have better
    >>>>>> extension management, I'll give it that. But it's still something
    >>>>>> that the user has to manage especially when upgrading.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> I do use a few extensions in the Suite for *extra* functionality
    >>>>>> but I use the same ones in FF which levels the comparison yet again.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Ed, I'd be interested in knowing which extensions you find add
    >>>>> functionality to Moz/Seamonkey. I've got:
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Prefbar
    >>>>> Web Developer's Toolbar
    >>>>> Home Button
    >>>>> Extension Manager 2.0
    >>>>>
    >>>>> I have TBE on, but I'm beginning to sense that the native tabbed
    >>>>> browsing has improved enough that I don't really need it.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Lee
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> For me its Multizilla, and the old version of Extension Uninstaller.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> I never had much luck with Multizilla. I used it for a while when
    >>> TBE was acting up. Both have the problem of being immensely powerful
    >>> extensions, that, while they add great functionality, they can both
    >>> cause problems.
    >>>
    >>> I say that, of course, as a TBE user, so take the comment with the
    >>> proverbial grain of salt.
    >>>
    >>> LEE

    >>
    >>
    >> Where are my manners, thank you for the response. It is always
    >> interesting to compare what other users feel they have to have in a
    >> browser.
    >>
    >> Lee

    > I've been using Multizilla since I discovered Moz way back at 1.2.1.
    > I've only had two problems with it. The first was when I upgraded once
    > and it caused a problem with bookmarks. This was also about the same
    > time that TBE had a problem with bookmarks, too. I was using version
    > 1630 for the longest time, then I upgraded Moz to 1.7.11 and Multi
    > failed to work. So I upgraded and things worked again.
    >
    > The thing I like about Multizilla is the tabbed features, the QPrefs
    > button, and the other bonuses not found elsewhere. For me, I would be
    > lost without my Multi.


    Well, I;m a little ahead of you on one count, I started with Moz at the
    1.0 release. Thanks for the input!

    Lee
     
    Leonidas Jones, Sep 24, 2005
    #14
  15. IRC Monkey

    Ed Mullen Guest

    Leonidas Jones wrote:
    > Ed Mullen wrote:
    >
    >> gwtc wrote:
    >>
    >>> Ed Mullen wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> IRC Monkey wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> Is it just me or does anyone else think that Firefox is too fussy and
    >>>>>> loads of ballache compared with Mozilla Suite, which in contrast is a
    >>>>>> real jem. Sleek and concise. Obviously both are preferable to Mr
    >>>>>> Gates'
    >>>>>> abomination IE6, bit I still think there's just too much faff to
    >>>>>> Firefox. Does anyone else agree or is it just me...?
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> so what do you feel that Mozilla Suite does better than Firefox ?
    >>>>>
    >>>>> not flaming - just curious :)
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> Understood, no flames necessary.
    >>>>
    >>>> Some thoughts are on the page link I noted previously:
    >>>>
    >>>> http://mozilla.edmullen.net/seamonkey.html
    >>>>
    >>>> In brief, but more detail on my site, and just MHO:
    >>>>
    >>>> - too much was stripped from the Firefox (and Thunderbird) UI in the
    >>>> way of user settings, leaving FF "simpler" for "average users" but
    >>>> much harder to setup and maintain. Witness all the questions here
    >>>> and other forums. Instead of pointing people to menu choices we've
    >>>> got to explain all about "about:config". and you need to install an
    >>>> extension to get "about:config" in TB. Not user-friendly IMHO.
    >>>>
    >>>> - Disintegration of the apps. FF and Thunderbird are OK as far as
    >>>> they go presently but there is little or no tie-in of UI,
    >>>> functionality, look-and-feel, etc. Again, design-wise it may have
    >>>> made some sense for targeted users who only wanted one or the
    >>>> other. But dealing with two separate apps ultimately complicates
    >>>> things, again, IMHO. Especially for novice/average users who the
    >>>> knowledgeable of us must support in one fashion or another.
    >>>>
    >>>> - FF and TB "broke" perfectly good functionality that exists in the
    >>>> Suite. A prime example is Sidebars. The apps have been simplified
    >>>> via lobotomy.
    >>>>
    >>>> If Mozilla.Org had put the same big push on updating and marketing
    >>>> the Suite as it did to develop FF and TB, I personally think things
    >>>> would be much better, and much further along. The Foundation spread
    >>>> itself thin (witness the abandonment of the Suite) with the
    >>>> inevitable result. Sure, FF is getting lots of press. And lots of
    >>>> valid criticism. It's still half-baked. Stick a toothpick in it,
    >>>> it ain't done by a long shot. And the Suite, ignored and shuttled
    >>>> aside, at version 1.7.11 still kicks it's butt overall.
    >>>>
    >>>> Again, just one goofball's opinion. ;-)
    >>>>
    >>> The other thing is that to get FF and TB to act like The Suite, you
    >>> need to install lots of extensions, and all these extensions could
    >>> add problems down the road.
    >>>
    >>> So, long live the Suite -- errr, rather now its SeaMonkey!!!!

    >>
    >>
    >> Couldn't agree more; the extension concept is great but if you have to
    >> install a bunch of them to match the functionality of the Suite the
    >> arguments about small footprint, simplicity, and ease-of-use pretty
    >> much are negated. FF does have better extension management, I'll give
    >> it that. But it's still something that the user has to manage
    >> especially when upgrading.
    >>
    >> I do use a few extensions in the Suite for *extra* functionality but I
    >> use the same ones in FF which levels the comparison yet again.
    >>

    >
    > Ed, I'd be interested in knowing which extensions you find add
    > functionality to Moz/Seamonkey. I've got:
    >
    > Prefbar
    > Web Developer's Toolbar
    > Home Button
    > Extension Manager 2.0
    >
    > I have TBE on, but I'm beginning to sense that the native tabbed
    > browsing has improved enough that I don't really need it.
    >
    > Lee


    TBE
    Live HTTP Headers
    jslib
    Tagzilla
    User Agent Switcher
    Prefsize

    It may be that the Suite has incorporated enough of TBE functions to
    obviate its use: I can't tell because I haven't run the Suite without it
    for at least a year (or much longer).

    The others provide functions that, to my knowledge, are not available
    natively in the Suite or, for that matter, in Firefox/Thunderbird.

    Do I use all of them a lot? Only some (TBE, Tagzilla/jslib, Prefsize).
    But when I need or want any of those functions I have them.

    TBE has been the most problematical over time but the author is, IMHO,
    doing a great job at fixing things and releasing frequent updates. It's
    been very stable for me for a long time now. And I have tried most
    other alternatives to TBE and been either disappointed or seriously
    ticked off at compatibility issues and feature set differences. I think
    the author has gotten a terribly bad rap. Given the uncontrolled
    state of extensions it's no wonder that conflicts occur as often as they do.

    So, my approach is to keep add-ons to a minimum and only update Mozilla
    with release versions. I've dabbled with Alphas and RCs over the years
    and can't accept the inherent instability. I'm online an average of 12
    hours a day on more than one system and I need things to work.

    Just one person's opinion, as always.

    --
    Ed Mullen
    http://edmullen.net
    http://mozilla.edmullen.net
    How do you tell when you run out of invisible ink?
     
    Ed Mullen, Sep 24, 2005
    #15
  16. IRC Monkey

    Ed Mullen Guest

    Leonidas Jones wrote:

    > gwtc wrote:
    >
    >> Leonidas Jones wrote:
    >>
    >>> Ed Mullen wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> gwtc wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Ed Mullen wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> IRC Monkey wrote:
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> Is it just me or does anyone else think that Firefox is too
    >>>>>>>> fussy and
    >>>>>>>> loads of ballache compared with Mozilla Suite, which in contrast
    >>>>>>>> is a
    >>>>>>>> real jem. Sleek and concise. Obviously both are preferable to Mr
    >>>>>>>> Gates'
    >>>>>>>> abomination IE6, bit I still think there's just too much faff to
    >>>>>>>> Firefox. Does anyone else agree or is it just me...?
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> so what do you feel that Mozilla Suite does better than Firefox ?
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> not flaming - just curious :)
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Understood, no flames necessary.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Some thoughts are on the page link I noted previously:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> http://mozilla.edmullen.net/seamonkey.html
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> In brief, but more detail on my site, and just MHO:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> - too much was stripped from the Firefox (and Thunderbird) UI in
    >>>>>> the way of user settings, leaving FF "simpler" for "average users"
    >>>>>> but much harder to setup and maintain. Witness all the questions
    >>>>>> here and other forums. Instead of pointing people to menu choices
    >>>>>> we've got to explain all about "about:config". and you need to
    >>>>>> install an extension to get "about:config" in TB. Not
    >>>>>> user-friendly IMHO.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> - Disintegration of the apps. FF and Thunderbird are OK as far as
    >>>>>> they go presently but there is little or no tie-in of UI,
    >>>>>> functionality, look-and-feel, etc. Again, design-wise it may have
    >>>>>> made some sense for targeted users who only wanted one or the
    >>>>>> other. But dealing with two separate apps ultimately complicates
    >>>>>> things, again, IMHO. Especially for novice/average users who the
    >>>>>> knowledgeable of us must support in one fashion or another.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> - FF and TB "broke" perfectly good functionality that exists in
    >>>>>> the Suite. A prime example is Sidebars. The apps have been
    >>>>>> simplified via lobotomy.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> If Mozilla.Org had put the same big push on updating and marketing
    >>>>>> the Suite as it did to develop FF and TB, I personally think
    >>>>>> things would be much better, and much further along. The
    >>>>>> Foundation spread itself thin (witness the abandonment of the
    >>>>>> Suite) with the inevitable result. Sure, FF is getting lots of
    >>>>>> press. And lots of valid criticism. It's still half-baked.
    >>>>>> Stick a toothpick in it, it ain't done by a long shot. And the
    >>>>>> Suite, ignored and shuttled aside, at version 1.7.11 still kicks
    >>>>>> it's butt overall.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Again, just one goofball's opinion. ;-)
    >>>>>>
    >>>>> The other thing is that to get FF and TB to act like The Suite, you
    >>>>> need to install lots of extensions, and all these extensions could
    >>>>> add problems down the road.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> So, long live the Suite -- errr, rather now its SeaMonkey!!!!
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> Couldn't agree more; the extension concept is great but if you have
    >>>> to install a bunch of them to match the functionality of the Suite
    >>>> the arguments about small footprint, simplicity, and ease-of-use
    >>>> pretty much are negated. FF does have better extension management,
    >>>> I'll give it that. But it's still something that the user has to
    >>>> manage especially when upgrading.
    >>>>
    >>>> I do use a few extensions in the Suite for *extra* functionality but
    >>>> I use the same ones in FF which levels the comparison yet again.
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> Ed, I'd be interested in knowing which extensions you find add
    >>> functionality to Moz/Seamonkey. I've got:
    >>>
    >>> Prefbar
    >>> Web Developer's Toolbar
    >>> Home Button
    >>> Extension Manager 2.0
    >>>
    >>> I have TBE on, but I'm beginning to sense that the native tabbed
    >>> browsing has improved enough that I don't really need it.
    >>>
    >>> Lee

    >>
    >>
    >> For me its Multizilla, and the old version of Extension Uninstaller.

    >
    >
    > I never had much luck with Multizilla. I used it for a while when TBE
    > was acting up. Both have the problem of being immensely powerful
    > extensions, that, while they add great functionality, they can both
    > cause problems.
    >
    > I say that, of course, as a TBE user, so take the comment with the
    > proverbial grain of salt.
    >
    > LEE


    Exactly my experience, Lee. In fact, I remember when we were both going
    back and forth trying to find a stable combination.

    BTW, during installation of TBE I never install the pop-up functions.
    My thought is that the built-in controls in Moz work fine for me and I
    don't want to introduce potential conflicts or wind up chasing my tail
    trying to figure out such problems.

    --
    Ed Mullen
    http://edmullen.net
    http://mozilla.edmullen.net
    I was simply furnishing a home. I love music ... and I don't think a
    $130,000 indoor-outdoor stereo system is extravagant. - Leona Helmsley
     
    Ed Mullen, Sep 24, 2005
    #16
  17. Ed Mullen wrote:
    > Leonidas Jones wrote:
    >
    >> gwtc wrote:
    >>
    >>> Leonidas Jones wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Ed Mullen wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> gwtc wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> Ed Mullen wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> wrote:
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> IRC Monkey wrote:
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> Is it just me or does anyone else think that Firefox is too
    >>>>>>>>> fussy and
    >>>>>>>>> loads of ballache compared with Mozilla Suite, which in
    >>>>>>>>> contrast is a
    >>>>>>>>> real jem. Sleek and concise. Obviously both are preferable to
    >>>>>>>>> Mr Gates'
    >>>>>>>>> abomination IE6, bit I still think there's just too much faff to
    >>>>>>>>> Firefox. Does anyone else agree or is it just me...?
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> so what do you feel that Mozilla Suite does better than Firefox ?
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> not flaming - just curious :)
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Understood, no flames necessary.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Some thoughts are on the page link I noted previously:
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> http://mozilla.edmullen.net/seamonkey.html
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> In brief, but more detail on my site, and just MHO:
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> - too much was stripped from the Firefox (and Thunderbird) UI in
    >>>>>>> the way of user settings, leaving FF "simpler" for "average
    >>>>>>> users" but much harder to setup and maintain. Witness all the
    >>>>>>> questions here and other forums. Instead of pointing people to
    >>>>>>> menu choices we've got to explain all about "about:config". and
    >>>>>>> you need to install an extension to get "about:config" in TB.
    >>>>>>> Not user-friendly IMHO.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> - Disintegration of the apps. FF and Thunderbird are OK as far
    >>>>>>> as they go presently but there is little or no tie-in of UI,
    >>>>>>> functionality, look-and-feel, etc. Again, design-wise it may
    >>>>>>> have made some sense for targeted users who only wanted one or
    >>>>>>> the other. But dealing with two separate apps ultimately
    >>>>>>> complicates things, again, IMHO. Especially for novice/average
    >>>>>>> users who the knowledgeable of us must support in one fashion or
    >>>>>>> another.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> - FF and TB "broke" perfectly good functionality that exists in
    >>>>>>> the Suite. A prime example is Sidebars. The apps have been
    >>>>>>> simplified via lobotomy.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> If Mozilla.Org had put the same big push on updating and
    >>>>>>> marketing the Suite as it did to develop FF and TB, I personally
    >>>>>>> think things would be much better, and much further along. The
    >>>>>>> Foundation spread itself thin (witness the abandonment of the
    >>>>>>> Suite) with the inevitable result. Sure, FF is getting lots of
    >>>>>>> press. And lots of valid criticism. It's still half-baked.
    >>>>>>> Stick a toothpick in it, it ain't done by a long shot. And the
    >>>>>>> Suite, ignored and shuttled aside, at version 1.7.11 still kicks
    >>>>>>> it's butt overall.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Again, just one goofball's opinion. ;-)
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>> The other thing is that to get FF and TB to act like The Suite,
    >>>>>> you need to install lots of extensions, and all these extensions
    >>>>>> could add problems down the road.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> So, long live the Suite -- errr, rather now its SeaMonkey!!!!
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Couldn't agree more; the extension concept is great but if you have
    >>>>> to install a bunch of them to match the functionality of the Suite
    >>>>> the arguments about small footprint, simplicity, and ease-of-use
    >>>>> pretty much are negated. FF does have better extension management,
    >>>>> I'll give it that. But it's still something that the user has to
    >>>>> manage especially when upgrading.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> I do use a few extensions in the Suite for *extra* functionality
    >>>>> but I use the same ones in FF which levels the comparison yet again.
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> Ed, I'd be interested in knowing which extensions you find add
    >>>> functionality to Moz/Seamonkey. I've got:
    >>>>
    >>>> Prefbar
    >>>> Web Developer's Toolbar
    >>>> Home Button
    >>>> Extension Manager 2.0
    >>>>
    >>>> I have TBE on, but I'm beginning to sense that the native tabbed
    >>>> browsing has improved enough that I don't really need it.
    >>>>
    >>>> Lee
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> For me its Multizilla, and the old version of Extension Uninstaller.

    >>
    >>
    >> I never had much luck with Multizilla. I used it for a while when TBE
    >> was acting up. Both have the problem of being immensely powerful
    >> extensions, that, while they add great functionality, they can both
    >> cause problems.
    >>
    >> I say that, of course, as a TBE user, so take the comment with the
    >> proverbial grain of salt.
    >>
    >> LEE

    >
    > Exactly my experience, Lee. In fact, I remember when we were both going
    > back and forth trying to find a stable combination.
    >
    > BTW, during installation of TBE I never install the pop-up functions. My
    > thought is that the built-in controls in Moz work fine for me and I
    > don't want to introduce potential conflicts or wind up chasing my tail
    > trying to figure out such problems.
    >


    I installed the module, but I never did anything with it, and I notice
    no difference in popup behavior.

    Lee
     
    Leonidas Jones, Sep 24, 2005
    #17
  18. Ed Mullen wrote:
    > Leonidas Jones wrote:
    >> Ed Mullen wrote:
    >>
    >>> gwtc wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Ed Mullen wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> IRC Monkey wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Is it just me or does anyone else think that Firefox is too fussy
    >>>>>>> and
    >>>>>>> loads of ballache compared with Mozilla Suite, which in contrast
    >>>>>>> is a
    >>>>>>> real jem. Sleek and concise. Obviously both are preferable to Mr
    >>>>>>> Gates'
    >>>>>>> abomination IE6, bit I still think there's just too much faff to
    >>>>>>> Firefox. Does anyone else agree or is it just me...?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> so what do you feel that Mozilla Suite does better than Firefox ?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> not flaming - just curious :)
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Understood, no flames necessary.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Some thoughts are on the page link I noted previously:
    >>>>>
    >>>>> http://mozilla.edmullen.net/seamonkey.html
    >>>>>
    >>>>> In brief, but more detail on my site, and just MHO:
    >>>>>
    >>>>> - too much was stripped from the Firefox (and Thunderbird) UI in
    >>>>> the way of user settings, leaving FF "simpler" for "average users"
    >>>>> but much harder to setup and maintain. Witness all the questions
    >>>>> here and other forums. Instead of pointing people to menu choices
    >>>>> we've got to explain all about "about:config". and you need to
    >>>>> install an extension to get "about:config" in TB. Not
    >>>>> user-friendly IMHO.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> - Disintegration of the apps. FF and Thunderbird are OK as far as
    >>>>> they go presently but there is little or no tie-in of UI,
    >>>>> functionality, look-and-feel, etc. Again, design-wise it may have
    >>>>> made some sense for targeted users who only wanted one or the
    >>>>> other. But dealing with two separate apps ultimately complicates
    >>>>> things, again, IMHO. Especially for novice/average users who the
    >>>>> knowledgeable of us must support in one fashion or another.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> - FF and TB "broke" perfectly good functionality that exists in the
    >>>>> Suite. A prime example is Sidebars. The apps have been simplified
    >>>>> via lobotomy.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> If Mozilla.Org had put the same big push on updating and marketing
    >>>>> the Suite as it did to develop FF and TB, I personally think things
    >>>>> would be much better, and much further along. The Foundation
    >>>>> spread itself thin (witness the abandonment of the Suite) with the
    >>>>> inevitable result. Sure, FF is getting lots of press. And lots of
    >>>>> valid criticism. It's still half-baked. Stick a toothpick in it,
    >>>>> it ain't done by a long shot. And the Suite, ignored and shuttled
    >>>>> aside, at version 1.7.11 still kicks it's butt overall.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Again, just one goofball's opinion. ;-)
    >>>>>
    >>>> The other thing is that to get FF and TB to act like The Suite, you
    >>>> need to install lots of extensions, and all these extensions could
    >>>> add problems down the road.
    >>>>
    >>>> So, long live the Suite -- errr, rather now its SeaMonkey!!!!
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Couldn't agree more; the extension concept is great but if you have
    >>> to install a bunch of them to match the functionality of the Suite
    >>> the arguments about small footprint, simplicity, and ease-of-use
    >>> pretty much are negated. FF does have better extension management,
    >>> I'll give it that. But it's still something that the user has to
    >>> manage especially when upgrading.
    >>>
    >>> I do use a few extensions in the Suite for *extra* functionality but
    >>> I use the same ones in FF which levels the comparison yet again.
    >>>

    >>
    >> Ed, I'd be interested in knowing which extensions you find add
    >> functionality to Moz/Seamonkey. I've got:
    >>
    >> Prefbar
    >> Web Developer's Toolbar
    >> Home Button
    >> Extension Manager 2.0
    >>
    >> I have TBE on, but I'm beginning to sense that the native tabbed
    >> browsing has improved enough that I don't really need it.
    >>
    >> Lee

    >
    > TBE
    > Live HTTP Headers
    > jslib
    > Tagzilla
    > User Agent Switcher
    > Prefsize
    >
    > It may be that the Suite has incorporated enough of TBE functions to
    > obviate its use: I can't tell because I haven't run the Suite without it
    > for at least a year (or much longer).
    >
    > The others provide functions that, to my knowledge, are not available
    > natively in the Suite or, for that matter, in Firefox/Thunderbird.
    >
    > Do I use all of them a lot? Only some (TBE, Tagzilla/jslib, Prefsize).
    > But when I need or want any of those functions I have them.
    >
    > TBE has been the most problematical over time but the author is, IMHO,
    > doing a great job at fixing things and releasing frequent updates. It's
    > been very stable for me for a long time now. And I have tried most
    > other alternatives to TBE and been either disappointed or seriously
    > ticked off at compatibility issues and feature set differences. I think
    > the author has gotten a terribly bad rap. Given the uncontrolled state
    > of extensions it's no wonder that conflicts occur as often as they do.
    >
    > So, my approach is to keep add-ons to a minimum and only update Mozilla
    > with release versions. I've dabbled with Alphas and RCs over the years
    > and can't accept the inherent instability. I'm online an average of 12
    > hours a day on more than one system and I need things to work.
    >
    > Just one person's opinion, as always.
    >


    I was just reminded of one I forgot, Launchy! I had not installed it in
    this Semonkey profile. I would have right clicked and realized I had
    forgotten it pretty soon.

    Doing tech support, with the ability to open sites in another browser,
    or open another mail client at a click, its an invaluable tool.

    Another I forgot to mention Mnenhy. Its more valuable in TB, but very
    useful in the suite as well.

    There was something I used to use that required jslib,, I forget which.
    I thought it was Launchy, but it just installed without a glitch.

    Lee
     
    Leonidas Jones, Sep 24, 2005
    #18
  19. IRC Monkey

    Ed Mullen Guest

    Leonidas Jones wrote:
    > Ed Mullen wrote:
    >
    >> Leonidas Jones wrote:
    >>
    >>> Ed Mullen wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> gwtc wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Ed Mullen wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> IRC Monkey wrote:
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> Is it just me or does anyone else think that Firefox is too
    >>>>>>>> fussy and
    >>>>>>>> loads of ballache compared with Mozilla Suite, which in contrast
    >>>>>>>> is a
    >>>>>>>> real jem. Sleek and concise. Obviously both are preferable to Mr
    >>>>>>>> Gates'
    >>>>>>>> abomination IE6, bit I still think there's just too much faff to
    >>>>>>>> Firefox. Does anyone else agree or is it just me...?
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> so what do you feel that Mozilla Suite does better than Firefox ?
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> not flaming - just curious :)
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Understood, no flames necessary.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Some thoughts are on the page link I noted previously:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> http://mozilla.edmullen.net/seamonkey.html
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> In brief, but more detail on my site, and just MHO:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> - too much was stripped from the Firefox (and Thunderbird) UI in
    >>>>>> the way of user settings, leaving FF "simpler" for "average users"
    >>>>>> but much harder to setup and maintain. Witness all the questions
    >>>>>> here and other forums. Instead of pointing people to menu choices
    >>>>>> we've got to explain all about "about:config". and you need to
    >>>>>> install an extension to get "about:config" in TB. Not
    >>>>>> user-friendly IMHO.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> - Disintegration of the apps. FF and Thunderbird are OK as far as
    >>>>>> they go presently but there is little or no tie-in of UI,
    >>>>>> functionality, look-and-feel, etc. Again, design-wise it may have
    >>>>>> made some sense for targeted users who only wanted one or the
    >>>>>> other. But dealing with two separate apps ultimately complicates
    >>>>>> things, again, IMHO. Especially for novice/average users who the
    >>>>>> knowledgeable of us must support in one fashion or another.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> - FF and TB "broke" perfectly good functionality that exists in
    >>>>>> the Suite. A prime example is Sidebars. The apps have been
    >>>>>> simplified via lobotomy.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> If Mozilla.Org had put the same big push on updating and marketing
    >>>>>> the Suite as it did to develop FF and TB, I personally think
    >>>>>> things would be much better, and much further along. The
    >>>>>> Foundation spread itself thin (witness the abandonment of the
    >>>>>> Suite) with the inevitable result. Sure, FF is getting lots of
    >>>>>> press. And lots of valid criticism. It's still half-baked.
    >>>>>> Stick a toothpick in it, it ain't done by a long shot. And the
    >>>>>> Suite, ignored and shuttled aside, at version 1.7.11 still kicks
    >>>>>> it's butt overall.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Again, just one goofball's opinion. ;-)
    >>>>>>
    >>>>> The other thing is that to get FF and TB to act like The Suite, you
    >>>>> need to install lots of extensions, and all these extensions could
    >>>>> add problems down the road.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> So, long live the Suite -- errr, rather now its SeaMonkey!!!!
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> Couldn't agree more; the extension concept is great but if you have
    >>>> to install a bunch of them to match the functionality of the Suite
    >>>> the arguments about small footprint, simplicity, and ease-of-use
    >>>> pretty much are negated. FF does have better extension management,
    >>>> I'll give it that. But it's still something that the user has to
    >>>> manage especially when upgrading.
    >>>>
    >>>> I do use a few extensions in the Suite for *extra* functionality but
    >>>> I use the same ones in FF which levels the comparison yet again.
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> Ed, I'd be interested in knowing which extensions you find add
    >>> functionality to Moz/Seamonkey. I've got:
    >>>
    >>> Prefbar
    >>> Web Developer's Toolbar
    >>> Home Button
    >>> Extension Manager 2.0
    >>>
    >>> I have TBE on, but I'm beginning to sense that the native tabbed
    >>> browsing has improved enough that I don't really need it.
    >>>
    >>> Lee

    >>
    >>
    >> TBE
    >> Live HTTP Headers
    >> jslib
    >> Tagzilla
    >> User Agent Switcher
    >> Prefsize
    >>
    >> It may be that the Suite has incorporated enough of TBE functions to
    >> obviate its use: I can't tell because I haven't run the Suite without
    >> it for at least a year (or much longer).
    >>
    >> The others provide functions that, to my knowledge, are not available
    >> natively in the Suite or, for that matter, in Firefox/Thunderbird.
    >>
    >> Do I use all of them a lot? Only some (TBE, Tagzilla/jslib,
    >> Prefsize). But when I need or want any of those functions I have them.
    >>
    >> TBE has been the most problematical over time but the author is, IMHO,
    >> doing a great job at fixing things and releasing frequent updates.
    >> It's been very stable for me for a long time now. And I have tried
    >> most other alternatives to TBE and been either disappointed or
    >> seriously ticked off at compatibility issues and feature set
    >> differences. I think the author has gotten a terribly bad rap.
    >> Given the uncontrolled state of extensions it's no wonder that
    >> conflicts occur as often as they do.
    >>
    >> So, my approach is to keep add-ons to a minimum and only update
    >> Mozilla with release versions. I've dabbled with Alphas and RCs over
    >> the years and can't accept the inherent instability. I'm online an
    >> average of 12 hours a day on more than one system and I need things to
    >> work.
    >>
    >> Just one person's opinion, as always.
    >>

    >
    > I was just reminded of one I forgot, Launchy! I had not installed it in
    > this Semonkey profile. I would have right clicked and realized I had
    > forgotten it pretty soon.


    That one has enticed me over time but not enough to install it. I do
    check pages in IE, FF, and the Suite fairly regularly, Opera rarely. I
    have a bookmarklet that opens the current Moz page in IE on one click
    and I could make one for the other browsers if I felt a need to. And no
    need to install and keep updated another extension with its potential
    conflicts.

    >
    > Doing tech support, with the ability to open sites in another browser,
    > or open another mail client at a click, its an invaluable tool.
    >
    > Another I forgot to mention Mnenhy. Its more valuable in TB, but very
    > useful in the suite as well.


    You know, I tried Mnehy for a while. Had some conflicts (don't remember
    what) and odd things happening and got rid of it. It also had a lot of
    "stuff" in it that I didn't use and I'm a hammer kind of guy rather than
    a Swiss Army knife one. In general I like a tool that does one or two
    things really well rather than trying to do a multitude of things "sort
    of ok."

    >
    > There was something I used to use that required jslib,, I forget which.
    > I thought it was Launchy, but it just installed without a glitch.
    >
    > Lee
    >


    Perhaps the thing I like best about all of this is that the Mozilla
    products present a lot of options for user customization and we can all
    do different things that suite our preferences. Great to have choices!

    --
    Ed Mullen
    http://edmullen.net
    http://mozilla.edmullen.net
    What hair color do they put on the driver's licenses of bald men?
     
    Ed Mullen, Sep 24, 2005
    #19
  20. Ed Mullen wrote:
    > Leonidas Jones wrote:
    >> Ed Mullen wrote:
    >>
    >>> Leonidas Jones wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Ed Mullen wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> gwtc wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> Ed Mullen wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> wrote:
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> IRC Monkey wrote:
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> Is it just me or does anyone else think that Firefox is too
    >>>>>>>>> fussy and
    >>>>>>>>> loads of ballache compared with Mozilla Suite, which in
    >>>>>>>>> contrast is a
    >>>>>>>>> real jem. Sleek and concise. Obviously both are preferable to
    >>>>>>>>> Mr Gates'
    >>>>>>>>> abomination IE6, bit I still think there's just too much faff to
    >>>>>>>>> Firefox. Does anyone else agree or is it just me...?
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> so what do you feel that Mozilla Suite does better than Firefox ?
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> not flaming - just curious :)
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Understood, no flames necessary.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Some thoughts are on the page link I noted previously:
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> http://mozilla.edmullen.net/seamonkey.html
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> In brief, but more detail on my site, and just MHO:
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> - too much was stripped from the Firefox (and Thunderbird) UI in
    >>>>>>> the way of user settings, leaving FF "simpler" for "average
    >>>>>>> users" but much harder to setup and maintain. Witness all the
    >>>>>>> questions here and other forums. Instead of pointing people to
    >>>>>>> menu choices we've got to explain all about "about:config". and
    >>>>>>> you need to install an extension to get "about:config" in TB.
    >>>>>>> Not user-friendly IMHO.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> - Disintegration of the apps. FF and Thunderbird are OK as far
    >>>>>>> as they go presently but there is little or no tie-in of UI,
    >>>>>>> functionality, look-and-feel, etc. Again, design-wise it may
    >>>>>>> have made some sense for targeted users who only wanted one or
    >>>>>>> the other. But dealing with two separate apps ultimately
    >>>>>>> complicates things, again, IMHO. Especially for novice/average
    >>>>>>> users who the knowledgeable of us must support in one fashion or
    >>>>>>> another.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> - FF and TB "broke" perfectly good functionality that exists in
    >>>>>>> the Suite. A prime example is Sidebars. The apps have been
    >>>>>>> simplified via lobotomy.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> If Mozilla.Org had put the same big push on updating and
    >>>>>>> marketing the Suite as it did to develop FF and TB, I personally
    >>>>>>> think things would be much better, and much further along. The
    >>>>>>> Foundation spread itself thin (witness the abandonment of the
    >>>>>>> Suite) with the inevitable result. Sure, FF is getting lots of
    >>>>>>> press. And lots of valid criticism. It's still half-baked.
    >>>>>>> Stick a toothpick in it, it ain't done by a long shot. And the
    >>>>>>> Suite, ignored and shuttled aside, at version 1.7.11 still kicks
    >>>>>>> it's butt overall.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Again, just one goofball's opinion. ;-)
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>> The other thing is that to get FF and TB to act like The Suite,
    >>>>>> you need to install lots of extensions, and all these extensions
    >>>>>> could add problems down the road.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> So, long live the Suite -- errr, rather now its SeaMonkey!!!!
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Couldn't agree more; the extension concept is great but if you have
    >>>>> to install a bunch of them to match the functionality of the Suite
    >>>>> the arguments about small footprint, simplicity, and ease-of-use
    >>>>> pretty much are negated. FF does have better extension management,
    >>>>> I'll give it that. But it's still something that the user has to
    >>>>> manage especially when upgrading.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> I do use a few extensions in the Suite for *extra* functionality
    >>>>> but I use the same ones in FF which levels the comparison yet again.
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> Ed, I'd be interested in knowing which extensions you find add
    >>>> functionality to Moz/Seamonkey. I've got:
    >>>>
    >>>> Prefbar
    >>>> Web Developer's Toolbar
    >>>> Home Button
    >>>> Extension Manager 2.0
    >>>>
    >>>> I have TBE on, but I'm beginning to sense that the native tabbed
    >>>> browsing has improved enough that I don't really need it.
    >>>>
    >>>> Lee
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> TBE
    >>> Live HTTP Headers
    >>> jslib
    >>> Tagzilla
    >>> User Agent Switcher
    >>> Prefsize
    >>>
    >>> It may be that the Suite has incorporated enough of TBE functions to
    >>> obviate its use: I can't tell because I haven't run the Suite without
    >>> it for at least a year (or much longer).
    >>>
    >>> The others provide functions that, to my knowledge, are not available
    >>> natively in the Suite or, for that matter, in Firefox/Thunderbird.
    >>>
    >>> Do I use all of them a lot? Only some (TBE, Tagzilla/jslib,
    >>> Prefsize). But when I need or want any of those functions I have them.
    >>>
    >>> TBE has been the most problematical over time but the author is,
    >>> IMHO, doing a great job at fixing things and releasing frequent
    >>> updates. It's been very stable for me for a long time now. And I
    >>> have tried most other alternatives to TBE and been either
    >>> disappointed or seriously ticked off at compatibility issues and
    >>> feature set differences. I think the author has gotten a terribly
    >>> bad rap. Given the uncontrolled state of extensions it's no wonder
    >>> that conflicts occur as often as they do.
    >>>
    >>> So, my approach is to keep add-ons to a minimum and only update
    >>> Mozilla with release versions. I've dabbled with Alphas and RCs over
    >>> the years and can't accept the inherent instability. I'm online an
    >>> average of 12 hours a day on more than one system and I need things
    >>> to work.
    >>>
    >>> Just one person's opinion, as always.
    >>>

    >>
    >> I was just reminded of one I forgot, Launchy! I had not installed it
    >> in this Semonkey profile. I would have right clicked and realized I
    >> had forgotten it pretty soon.

    >
    > That one has enticed me over time but not enough to install it. I do
    > check pages in IE, FF, and the Suite fairly regularly, Opera rarely. I
    > have a bookmarklet that opens the current Moz page in IE on one click
    > and I could make one for the other browsers if I felt a need to. And no
    > need to install and keep updated another extension with its potential
    > conflicts.
    >
    >>
    >> Doing tech support, with the ability to open sites in another browser,
    >> or open another mail client at a click, its an invaluable tool.
    >>
    >> Another I forgot to mention Mnenhy. Its more valuable in TB, but very
    >> useful in the suite as well.

    >
    > You know, I tried Mnehy for a while. Had some conflicts (don't remember
    > what) and odd things happening and got rid of it. It also had a lot of
    > "stuff" in it that I didn't use and I'm a hammer kind of guy rather than
    > a Swiss Army knife one. In general I like a tool that does one or two
    > things really well rather than trying to do a multitude of things "sort
    > of ok."
    >
    >>
    >> There was something I used to use that required jslib,, I forget
    >> which. I thought it was Launchy, but it just installed without a glitch.
    >>
    >> Lee
    >>

    >
    > Perhaps the thing I like best about all of this is that the Mozilla
    > products present a lot of options for user customization and we can all
    > do different things that suite our preferences. Great to have choices!
    >


    Indeed!

    Mnenhy in TB has one great advantage, a little less helpfuk in Moz/SM.
    The Folder Storage option allows you to set config settings on per
    folder basis. This allows me to keep my RSS feeds in original html, and
    everything else in plain text. Even better, I can have all of secnews
    in plain text, but netscape.test.multimedia in html, without having to
    switch back and forth.

    Launchy works beautifully for me, and its pretty easy to configure those
    apps that it will not auto detect. But if the bookmarklets suit your
    needs, wat the heck.

    I use Opera as a source, particularly when IE v. Moz questions arise.
    If Opera will render the page, Moz probably should. Usually, Opera
    chokes when Moz does.

    Lee
     
    Leonidas Jones, Sep 24, 2005
    #20
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