Fujitsu Hard Disk Drives

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Malcolm, Feb 14, 2004.

  1. Malcolm

    Malcolm Guest

    Has anyone had experience with Fujitsu Hard Disk Drives having a
    higher failure rate than other Manufacturers drives?

    The reason I ask is that I have just recently had two fail within
    weeks of one another, they were both made in the Philippines (not that
    this should initself be a reason for poor MTBF).

    They are both MPG3204AT (20Gb) drives manufactured in 2001, one failed
    after 3 years and the other after 2 years, I have other brands that
    are still going after 6 ad 8 years.

    I have replaced one with a Western Digital drive and are not inclined
    to try another Fujitsu drive.

    I am curious if anyone else has experienced poor MTBF with Fujitsu
    drives?

    Malcolm
    Wellington NZ

    Remove the dot's to reply
    Malcolm, Feb 14, 2004
    #1
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  2. Malcolm

    colinco Guest

    In article <>,
    says...
    > Has anyone had experience with Fujitsu Hard Disk Drives having a
    > higher failure rate than other Manufacturers drives?
    >

    Search around. Some Fuji drives had controller chips with faulty
    encapsulation.
    colinco, Feb 14, 2004
    #2
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  3. exposing the double standards of the 'elite', Feb 14, 2004
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  4. Malcolm

    TEX Guest

    Malcolm wrote:
    > Has anyone had experience with Fujitsu Hard Disk Drives having a
    > higher failure rate than other Manufacturers drives?
    >
    > The reason I ask is that I have just recently had two fail within
    > weeks of one another, they were both made in the Philippines (not that
    > this should initself be a reason for poor MTBF).
    >
    > They are both MPG3204AT (20Gb) drives manufactured in 2001, one failed
    > after 3 years and the other after 2 years, I have other brands that
    > are still going after 6 ad 8 years.
    >
    > I have replaced one with a Western Digital drive and are not inclined
    > to try another Fujitsu drive.
    >
    > I am curious if anyone else has experienced poor MTBF with Fujitsu
    > drives?
    >
    > Malcolm
    > Wellington NZ
    >
    > Remove the dot's to reply


    They have a problem with thier firmware on some models the 20gb and 10gb
    versions ring a bell. I issues I have come across were typically in
    compaq machines, which were working fine for 2 years straight, till one
    day it decided it wouldn't pickup the hdd in bios. Found a tech article
    on the net in regards to firmware issue. Reflashed and most of them came
    up sweet, and still running strong.

    Ask Gavin Tunney (regualr poster here) about them, he will tell you
    about his experiences.

    TEX
    TEX, Feb 14, 2004
    #4
  5. Malcolm

    Dave Taylor Guest

    (Malcolm) wrote in news:402da6c9.22709794
    @NEWS.xtra.co.nz:

    > Has anyone had experience with Fujitsu Hard Disk Drives having a
    > higher failure rate than other Manufacturers drives?
    >
    > The reason I ask is that I have just recently had two fail within
    > weeks of one another, they were both made in the Philippines (not that
    > this should initself be a reason for poor MTBF).
    >
    > They are both MPG3204AT (20Gb) drives manufactured in 2001, one failed
    > after 3 years and the other after 2 years, I have other brands that
    > are still going after 6 ad 8 years.
    >
    > I have replaced one with a Western Digital drive and are not inclined
    > to try another Fujitsu drive.
    >
    > I am curious if anyone else has experienced poor MTBF with Fujitsu
    > drives?
    >
    > Malcolm
    > Wellington NZ
    >
    > Remove the dot's to reply


    They may still be under warranty. There was a known issue and a firmware
    update for some fujitsu drives.
    Ciao, Dave
    Dave Taylor, Feb 14, 2004
    #5
  6. Malcolm

    Enkidu Guest

    On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 04:41:58 GMT,
    (Malcolm) wrote:

    >Has anyone had experience with Fujitsu Hard Disk Drives having a
    >higher failure rate than other Manufacturers drives?
    >
    >The reason I ask is that I have just recently had two fail within
    >weeks of one another, they were both made in the Philippines (not that
    >this should initself be a reason for poor MTBF).
    >
    >They are both MPG3204AT (20Gb) drives manufactured in 2001, one failed
    >after 3 years and the other after 2 years, I have other brands that
    >are still going after 6 ad 8 years.
    >
    >I have replaced one with a Western Digital drive and are not inclined
    >to try another Fujitsu drive.
    >
    >I am curious if anyone else has experienced poor MTBF with Fujitsu
    >drives?
    >

    I had about 10 go in all. Those that remain seem to run fine, but I
    won't get any more.

    Cheers,

    Cliff
    Enkidu, Feb 14, 2004
    #6
  7. Malcolm

    ac Guest

    In article <>,
    says...
    > Has anyone had experience with Fujitsu Hard Disk Drives having a
    > higher failure rate than other Manufacturers drives?
    >
    > The reason I ask is that I have just recently had two fail within
    > weeks of one another, they were both made in the Philippines (not that
    > this should initself be a reason for poor MTBF).
    >
    > They are both MPG3204AT (20Gb) drives manufactured in 2001, one failed
    > after 3 years and the other after 2 years, I have other brands that
    > are still going after 6 ad 8 years.
    >
    > I have replaced one with a Western Digital drive and are not inclined
    > to try another Fujitsu drive.
    >
    > I am curious if anyone else has experienced poor MTBF with Fujitsu
    > drives?


    Er, Yep. Compaq was replacing them under a replacement program about 10
    months ago. Many died where I worked.

    Read about it here:

    http://h30066.www3.hp.com/hddr/

    Hmm, replacing them with Western Digital ...out of the frying pan.. ;)
    ac, Feb 14, 2004
    #7
  8. Malcolm

    Mainlander Guest

    In article <>,
    says...
    > Has anyone had experience with Fujitsu Hard Disk Drives having a
    > higher failure rate than other Manufacturers drives?
    >
    > The reason I ask is that I have just recently had two fail within
    > weeks of one another, they were both made in the Philippines (not that
    > this should initself be a reason for poor MTBF).
    >
    > They are both MPG3204AT (20Gb) drives manufactured in 2001, one failed
    > after 3 years and the other after 2 years, I have other brands that
    > are still going after 6 ad 8 years.


    Yes there was a well known spat of failures, which was on the electronics
    I think from memory, not the hardware, around that time.

    I remember reading Compaq tech support for all the problems they had,
    there being various symptoms


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    Full featured open source Win32 newsreader - Gravity 2.70
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    Mainlander, Feb 14, 2004
    #8
  9. Malcolm

    Mainlander Guest

    In article <>, says...
    > Malcolm wrote:
    > > Has anyone had experience with Fujitsu Hard Disk Drives having a
    > > higher failure rate than other Manufacturers drives?
    > >
    > > The reason I ask is that I have just recently had two fail within
    > > weeks of one another, they were both made in the Philippines (not that
    > > this should initself be a reason for poor MTBF).
    > >
    > > They are both MPG3204AT (20Gb) drives manufactured in 2001, one failed
    > > after 3 years and the other after 2 years, I have other brands that
    > > are still going after 6 ad 8 years.
    > >
    > > I have replaced one with a Western Digital drive and are not inclined
    > > to try another Fujitsu drive.
    > >
    > > I am curious if anyone else has experienced poor MTBF with Fujitsu
    > > drives?
    > >
    > > Malcolm
    > > Wellington NZ
    > >
    > > Remove the dot's to reply

    >
    > They have a problem with thier firmware on some models the 20gb and 10gb
    > versions ring a bell. I issues I have come across were typically in
    > compaq machines, which were working fine for 2 years straight, till one
    > day it decided it wouldn't pickup the hdd in bios. Found a tech article
    > on the net in regards to firmware issue. Reflashed and most of them came
    > up sweet, and still running strong.


    Incidentally we had the same problem in a Compaq, turned out to be the
    HDD power connector not plugged in properly

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    Full featured open source Win32 newsreader - Gravity 2.70
    http://sourceforge.net/projects/mpgravity/
    Mainlander, Feb 14, 2004
    #9
  10. Malcolm

    Rudy Seoa Guest

    In article <>,
    says...
    > Has anyone had experience with Fujitsu Hard Disk Drives having a
    > higher failure rate than other Manufacturers drives?
    >
    > The reason I ask is that I have just recently had two fail within
    > weeks of one another, they were both made in the Philippines (not that
    > this should initself be a reason for poor MTBF).
    >
    > They are both MPG3204AT (20Gb) drives manufactured in 2001, one failed
    > after 3 years and the other after 2 years, I have other brands that
    > are still going after 6 ad 8 years.
    >
    > I have replaced one with a Western Digital drive and are not inclined
    > to try another Fujitsu drive.
    >
    > I am curious if anyone else has experienced poor MTBF with Fujitsu
    > drives?


    A lot of the MPG series had a faulty drive controller chip.

    I had ~40 of these drives at work, all of them have failed. I now
    consider any MPG series drive faulty, and to be replaced ASAP before it
    dies.
    Rudy Seoa, Feb 14, 2004
    #10
  11. Malcolm

    Ripping Silk Guest

    Not had fujitsu, but two drives going together isn't so unusual. I had 2
    (under 1 yo) Seagate 80Gb fail within weeks of each other. They got
    replaced. I've had 5 of these all up, and keep buying seagate cos they
    are quiet and quick. Altho silence is not one of the strong points of
    the SATA 120Gb it seems !!! Its noisier than my old 128Mb Quantum !


    Malcolm wrote:

    > Has anyone had experience with Fujitsu Hard Disk Drives having a
    > higher failure rate than other Manufacturers drives?
    >
    > The reason I ask is that I have just recently had two fail within
    > weeks of one another, they were both made in the Philippines (not that
    > this should initself be a reason for poor MTBF).
    >
    > They are both MPG3204AT (20Gb) drives manufactured in 2001, one failed
    > after 3 years and the other after 2 years, I have other brands that
    > are still going after 6 ad 8 years.
    >
    > I have replaced one with a Western Digital drive and are not inclined
    > to try another Fujitsu drive.
    >
    > I am curious if anyone else has experienced poor MTBF with Fujitsu
    > drives?
    >
    > Malcolm
    > Wellington NZ
    >
    > Remove the dot's to reply
    Ripping Silk, Feb 14, 2004
    #11
  12. Malcolm

    Mainlander Guest

    In article <402dc4dc$>, says...
    > In article <>, colinco <> wrote:
    > >In article <>,
    > > says...
    > >> Has anyone had experience with Fujitsu Hard Disk Drives having a
    > >> higher failure rate than other Manufacturers drives?
    > >>

    > >Search around. Some Fuji drives had controller chips with faulty
    > >encapsulation.

    >
    > And after this became know they got out of the HD business.


    Did they? I thought they still did 2.5" drives for notebooks.

    --
    Full featured open source Win32 newsreader - Gravity 2.70
    http://sourceforge.net/projects/mpgravity/
    Mainlander, Feb 14, 2004
    #12
  13. In article <>, colinco <> wrote:
    >In article <>,
    > says...
    >> Has anyone had experience with Fujitsu Hard Disk Drives having a
    >> higher failure rate than other Manufacturers drives?
    >>

    >Search around. Some Fuji drives had controller chips with faulty
    >encapsulation.


    And after this became know they got out of the HD business.
    Steve Robertson, Feb 14, 2004
    #13
  14. Malcolm

    steve Guest

    Malcolm wrote:

    > Has anyone had experience with Fujitsu Hard Disk Drives having a
    > higher failure rate than other Manufacturers drives?


    2 out of 3 died for me....one within 6 months.

    No more Fujitsu at my house.....

    > The reason I ask is that I have just recently had two fail within
    > weeks of one another, they were both made in the Philippines (not that
    > this should initself be a reason for poor MTBF).
    >
    > They are both MPG3204AT (20Gb) drives manufactured in 2001, one failed
    > after 3 years and the other after 2 years, I have other brands that
    > are still going after 6 ad 8 years.


    My last one was an 18GB drive...which decided one day it was a 4GB
    drive....and then died shortly afterward.

    > I have replaced one with a Western Digital drive and are not inclined
    > to try another Fujitsu drive.
    >
    > I am curious if anyone else has experienced poor MTBF with Fujitsu
    > drives?


    Pick me! Pick me!

    No Fujitsu here anymore.
    steve, Feb 14, 2004
    #14

  15. >> And after this became know they got out of the HD business.

    >
    >Did they? I thought they still did 2.5" drives for notebooks.
    >

    Its only what I read.
    IBM are out of the HD business(now Hitachi) but "IBM HD's" are still
    available. Again just what Ive read elsewhere.
    Steve Robertson, Feb 14, 2004
    #15
  16. On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 04:41:58 +0000, Malcolm wrote:

    > Has anyone had experience with Fujitsu Hard Disk Drives having a
    > higher failure rate than other Manufacturers drives?


    Uh, yes. It's been all over tech media for the last year or so.

    Bad chip encapsulation material (new flame retardants containing
    red phosphorus) which under some circumstances result in internal
    corrosion of the leadout wiring.

    Cirrus Logic supplied several tens of millions of such chips to Fujitsu
    and the fallout's been happening ever since. Fuji is suing Cirrus for bad
    products, Cirrus is suing Fuji for breaking the supply contract and there
    are at least 2 class-actions underway against Fuji for excessive drive
    failures.

    Fuji has admitted that at _least_ 3 million drives are affected, pundits
    say it's more like 10 million and it may be a lot higher still.

    > The reason I ask is that I have just recently had two fail within
    > weeks of one another, they were both made in the Philippines (not that
    > this should initself be a reason for poor MTBF).


    Seagate and Maxtor drives are made there too. I just had a 10k RPM 146Gb
    scsi drive fail and was suprised to see that when I pulled it out of the
    array.

    > They are both MPG3204AT (20Gb) drives manufactured in 2001, one failed
    > after 3 years and the other after 2 years, I have other brands that
    > are still going after 6 ad 8 years.


    2001 is about right for bad encapsulation failures.

    Personally I'd avoid Fuji until they make an official statement admitting
    they had supply problems. They launched the legal action against Cirrus
    while still publically denying there were drive problems.
    Uncle StoatWarbler, Feb 14, 2004
    #16
  17. On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 09:13:28 +0000, Steve Robertson wrote:

    > IBM are out of the HD business(now Hitachi) but "IBM HD's" are still
    > available. Again just what Ive read elsewhere.


    As with Compaq, these are now branded. (Usually Hitachi)

    There is a substantial pool of old genuine IBM drives still out there
    on supplier shelves though.
    Uncle StoatWarbler, Feb 14, 2004
    #17
  18. Malcolm

    pete Guest

    On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 17:57:56 +0000, Uncle StoatWarbler wrote:

    > On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 04:41:58 +0000, Malcolm wrote:
    >
    >> Has anyone had experience with Fujitsu Hard Disk Drives having a
    >> higher failure rate than other Manufacturers drives?

    >
    > Uh, yes. It's been all over tech media for the last year or so.
    >
    > Bad chip encapsulation material (new flame retardants containing
    > red phosphorus) which under some circumstances result in internal
    > corrosion of the leadout wiring.
    >
    > Cirrus Logic supplied several tens of millions of such chips to Fujitsu
    > and the fallout's been happening ever since. Fuji is suing Cirrus for bad
    > products, Cirrus is suing Fuji for breaking the supply contract and there
    > are at least 2 class-actions underway against Fuji for excessive drive
    > failures.
    >
    > Fuji has admitted that at _least_ 3 million drives are affected, pundits
    > say it's more like 10 million and it may be a lot higher still.
    >
    >> The reason I ask is that I have just recently had two fail within
    >> weeks of one another, they were both made in the Philippines (not that
    >> this should initself be a reason for poor MTBF).

    >
    > Seagate and Maxtor drives are made there too. I just had a 10k RPM 146Gb
    > scsi drive fail and was suprised to see that when I pulled it out of the
    > array.
    >
    >> They are both MPG3204AT (20Gb) drives manufactured in 2001, one failed
    >> after 3 years and the other after 2 years, I have other brands that
    >> are still going after 6 ad 8 years.

    >
    > 2001 is about right for bad encapsulation failures.
    >
    > Personally I'd avoid Fuji until they make an official statement admitting
    > they had supply problems. They launched the legal action against Cirrus
    > while still publically denying there were drive problems.


    Fuji will replace the drives under warranty but there is a catch - you will
    have to return the drive to Austalia at your own expense. It goes something
    like this: Fuji gave the drives a three year warranty. The reseller
    ususally only gives the PC (and all it contains) a one year warranty. When
    the drive fails you are initially directed to the reseller, who will (after
    one year) tell you "out of warranty, tough shit". If you want to get the
    drive replaced by Fujitsu, be prepared for some pissing around. First, find
    the imported who sold the drive to the reseller. May be Insite, may be
    Renaissance. They wont be of much help, as they will direct you back to the
    reseller, but you need this information.
    Next contact Fujitsu in Australia. They initially won't be much help, as
    they will state that they don't do outsite Aus. Point out to them that
    their website states they support Australia & New Zealand. They eventually
    will issue an RMA, and you send the drive back to them. If the drive is
    deemed warranty replaceable, they will send a replacement to the importer
    in NZ (Insite / Renaissance). Eventually you will get your replacement. It
    took me about 4 weeks. This was in the case of a locally built PC.
    BTW the number of faulty drives I read of was in the 6 million range, all
    due to the fauty Cirrus Logic chip.
    I changed dozens of them in Compaqs. There has never been a problem as
    descibed above with the Compaqs - I guess being big and powerful has its
    advantages
    pete, Feb 15, 2004
    #18
  19. Malcolm

    Gavin Tunney Guest

    On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 10:19:14 +1300, pete <> wrote:

    >On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 17:57:56 +0000, Uncle StoatWarbler wrote:
    >
    >> On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 04:41:58 +0000, Malcolm wrote:
    >>
    >>> Has anyone had experience with Fujitsu Hard Disk Drives having a
    >>> higher failure rate than other Manufacturers drives?

    >>
    >> Uh, yes. It's been all over tech media for the last year or so.
    >>
    >> Bad chip encapsulation material (new flame retardants containing
    >> red phosphorus) which under some circumstances result in internal
    >> corrosion of the leadout wiring.
    >>
    >> Cirrus Logic supplied several tens of millions of such chips to Fujitsu
    >> and the fallout's been happening ever since. Fuji is suing Cirrus for bad
    >> products, Cirrus is suing Fuji for breaking the supply contract and there
    >> are at least 2 class-actions underway against Fuji for excessive drive
    >> failures.
    >>
    >> Fuji has admitted that at _least_ 3 million drives are affected, pundits
    >> say it's more like 10 million and it may be a lot higher still.
    >>
    >>> The reason I ask is that I have just recently had two fail within
    >>> weeks of one another, they were both made in the Philippines (not that
    >>> this should initself be a reason for poor MTBF).

    >>
    >> Seagate and Maxtor drives are made there too. I just had a 10k RPM 146Gb
    >> scsi drive fail and was suprised to see that when I pulled it out of the
    >> array.
    >>
    >>> They are both MPG3204AT (20Gb) drives manufactured in 2001, one failed
    >>> after 3 years and the other after 2 years, I have other brands that
    >>> are still going after 6 ad 8 years.

    >>
    >> 2001 is about right for bad encapsulation failures.
    >>
    >> Personally I'd avoid Fuji until they make an official statement admitting
    >> they had supply problems. They launched the legal action against Cirrus
    >> while still publically denying there were drive problems.

    >
    >Fuji will replace the drives under warranty but there is a catch - you will
    >have to return the drive to Austalia at your own expense. It goes something
    >like this: Fuji gave the drives a three year warranty. The reseller
    >ususally only gives the PC (and all it contains) a one year warranty. When
    >the drive fails you are initially directed to the reseller, who will (after
    >one year) tell you "out of warranty, tough shit". If you want to get the
    >drive replaced by Fujitsu, be prepared for some pissing around. First, find
    >the imported who sold the drive to the reseller. May be Insite, may be
    >Renaissance. They wont be of much help, as they will direct you back to the
    >reseller, but you need this information.
    >Next contact Fujitsu in Australia. They initially won't be much help, as
    >they will state that they don't do outsite Aus. Point out to them that
    >their website states they support Australia & New Zealand. They eventually
    >will issue an RMA, and you send the drive back to them. If the drive is
    >deemed warranty replaceable, they will send a replacement to the importer
    >in NZ (Insite / Renaissance). Eventually you will get your replacement. It
    >took me about 4 weeks. This was in the case of a locally built PC.
    >BTW the number of faulty drives I read of was in the 6 million range, all
    >due to the fauty Cirrus Logic chip.
    >I changed dozens of them in Compaqs. There has never been a problem as
    >descibed above with the Compaqs - I guess being big and powerful has its
    >advantages


    You could also take the civil route & threaten the supplier with the
    disputes tribunal. There's no question the tribunal will rule in your
    favour once they're made aware of the situation with these drives.
    It's not a typical warranty issue, they're a defective product.

    My personal experience is the 20gig models at least have near a 100%
    failure rate over time. Early in the piece I had a few drives replaced
    with the same model, with later firmware etc & which were allegedly
    not subject to the problems of the earlier drives. They've all failed
    too now. A few of the larger & more well known local assemblers here
    in Auck used the 20gig drive in a lot of their low-cost PCs, so
    there's quite a few of them floating around here.

    It hasn't put me off Fujitsu drives. They had an unfortunate issue
    with a third party component they bought & used in certain models of
    their hard drives. It's one of those things that happens. I hate to
    think how much this has cost them.

    Cheers

    Gavin
    Gavin Tunney, Feb 15, 2004
    #19
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