Fuji's X100; at best, a fixed-lens ornament?

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by RichA, Feb 19, 2011.

  1. RichA

    RichA Guest

    Yes, there will be the people with DSLR's who, having bought most of
    the accessories and lenses they will never use, that will buy this
    camera, but likely they will be the only ones.
    I know one 120 camera-owning nutcase on Dpreview who will snap one up
    the first chance they get them trumpet its greatness to the Moon for
    all of a week or two, only to relegate it to the closet, or mantle-
    piece as an ornament. There will be those with the hobbyist's
    discipline (a contradiction?) who will actually try to use the camera,
    despite its crippling deficiency, but they are few. Guranteed some
    will crow it is the finest implementation of the idea "street camera"
    extant. This isn't 1985, and paying $1200 for what amounts to a
    (then) P&S 35mm camera with a single 38mm lens that used to sell for
    $100.00 strikes me as odd. It's true that true rangefinders (which
    this one is made to look like) are generally limited to a short range
    lens focal length selection compared to DSLR's but at least you can
    change their lenses.
    Isn't it time they trotted out the add-on lenses that they inevitably
    will, when that camera fails to sell in any numbers because of its
    single focal-length straight-jacket? A brave, fool-hardy initiative
    by Fuji and a sad, sad state of affairs for those wishing for a new
    DSLR from them, with their favourite sensor technology, and not just
    another Sony-sensored camera of many. Is this a criticism of the Sony
    sensor? No, just some hard reality. To paraphrase Patton, "Fixed-
    lens cameras are monuments to the stupidity of man."
    RichA, Feb 19, 2011
    #1
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  2. RichA

    Jeff R. Guest

    "RichA" <> wrote in message
    news:...

    > ... This isn't 1985, and paying $1200 for what amounts to a
    > (then) P&S 35mm camera with a single 38mm lens that used to sell for
    > $100.00 strikes me as odd.


    That doesn't mean that it *is* odd.

    Since you seem to disapprove of the X100 so much, could you help me out
    here?
    Can you point me towards another compact camera which has:

    * a shutter speed dial on the top;
    (not a frustratingly inaccessible menu-selected rear-mounted thumbwheel; one
    which isn't immediately visible at a glance; one which doesn't insult my
    intelligence with baby-styled modes of operation like "fireworks" or
    "self-portrait") (etc. etc.)

    * an exposure comp. dial readily accessible;
    (same arguments as above)

    * a focus ring that turns manually around the lens;
    (not some crappy servo-driven too-fast or too-slow push-button control)

    * an aperture dial on the top;
    (not some crappy menu-driven selection which resets when you turn the camera
    off.)

    AND NOTHING ELSE to clutter up the vital controls on the top plate?

    Well?
    The latest Leica comes close at 10x the price.

    If you don't really understand the attraction of the X100 design. do you
    think it's wise to bag it so comprehensively?

    As to the fixed lens: My favourite camera of all time, by an order of
    magnitude, was my Olympus 35RC. FFL, 42mm, and otherwise practically
    identical to the X100. Brilliant camera. Magnificent results.

    If the Fuji can replicate that experience, then it's worth the beefy price
    tag.

    (The M9, BTW, is not worth the entry price, but it sure looks like it works
    nicely.)


    >...A brave, fool-hardy initiative
    > by Fuji


    Hmmm...
    Here's an idea.
    If the X100 turns out to be anything other than a brilliant marketing
    initiative (based on sales) will you come back here in, say, a year's time,
    and eat your words? Publicly?

    --
    Jeff R.
    (no - I didn't think so)
    Jeff R., Feb 20, 2011
    #2
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  3. RichA

    PeterN Guest

    On 2/19/2011 7:35 PM, Paul Furman wrote:
    > RichA wrote:
    >> Yes, there will be the people with DSLR's who, having bought most of
    >> the accessories and lenses they will never use, that will buy this
    >> camera, but likely they will be the only ones.
    >> I know one 120 camera-owning nutcase on Dpreview who will snap one up
    >> the first chance they get them trumpet its greatness to the Moon for
    >> all of a week or two, only to relegate it to the closet, or mantle-
    >> piece as an ornament. There will be those with the hobbyist's
    >> discipline (a contradiction?) who will actually try to use the camera,
    >> despite its crippling deficiency, but they are few. Guranteed some
    >> will crow it is the finest implementation of the idea "street camera"
    >> extant. This isn't 1985, and paying $1200 for what amounts to a
    >> (then) P&S 35mm camera with a single 38mm lens that used to sell for
    >> $100.00 strikes me as odd.

    >
    > $2000
    > http://www.digitaltrends.com/photography/fujifilm-x100-and-its-hybrid-viewfinder-are-here/
    >
    >
    > I love the idea but not at that price!
    > http://www.onecall.com/product/Fuji/FinePix-X100/Digital-Camera/_/R-109596
    >



    I would consider it for a small carry about camera. Might be great for
    street shots and as the write up says it is a niche camera.

    --
    Peter
    PeterN, Feb 20, 2011
    #3
  4. RichA

    PeterN Guest

    On 2/20/2011 1:54 AM, Jeff R. wrote:
    > "RichA"<> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >
    >> ... This isn't 1985, and paying $1200 for what amounts to a
    >> (then) P&S 35mm camera with a single 38mm lens that used to sell for
    >> $100.00 strikes me as odd.

    >
    > That doesn't mean that it *is* odd.
    >
    > Since you seem to disapprove of the X100 so much, could you help me out
    > here?
    > Can you point me towards another compact camera which has:
    >
    > * a shutter speed dial on the top;
    > (not a frustratingly inaccessible menu-selected rear-mounted thumbwheel; one
    > which isn't immediately visible at a glance; one which doesn't insult my
    > intelligence with baby-styled modes of operation like "fireworks" or
    > "self-portrait") (etc. etc.)
    >
    > * an exposure comp. dial readily accessible;
    > (same arguments as above)
    >
    > * a focus ring that turns manually around the lens;
    > (not some crappy servo-driven too-fast or too-slow push-button control)
    >
    > * an aperture dial on the top;
    > (not some crappy menu-driven selection which resets when you turn the camera
    > off.)
    >
    > AND NOTHING ELSE to clutter up the vital controls on the top plate?
    >
    > Well?
    > The latest Leica comes close at 10x the price.
    >
    > If you don't really understand the attraction of the X100 design. do you
    > think it's wise to bag it so comprehensively?
    >
    > As to the fixed lens: My favourite camera of all time, by an order of
    > magnitude, was my Olympus 35RC. FFL, 42mm, and otherwise practically
    > identical to the X100. Brilliant camera. Magnificent results.
    >
    > If the Fuji can replicate that experience, then it's worth the beefy price
    > tag.
    >
    > (The M9, BTW, is not worth the entry price, but it sure looks like it works
    > nicely.)
    >
    >
    >> ...A brave, fool-hardy initiative
    >> by Fuji

    >
    > Hmmm...
    > Here's an idea.
    > If the X100 turns out to be anything other than a brilliant marketing
    > initiative (based on sales) will you come back here in, say, a year's time,
    > and eat your words? Publicly?
    >
    > --
    > Jeff R.
    > (no - I didn't think so)
    >
    >
    >

    Do you really expect a rational answer?

    --
    Peter
    PeterN, Feb 20, 2011
    #4
  5. RichA

    Bruce Guest

    Paul Furman <> wrote:
    >$2000
    >http://www.digitaltrends.com/photography/fujifilm-x100-and-its-hybrid-viewfinder-are-here/
    >
    >I love the idea but not at that price!
    >http://www.onecall.com/product/Fuji/FinePix-X100/Digital-Camera/_/R-109596



    I don't know where you get $2000 from, Paul. The article and the
    advert both quote a price of $1199.95.

    Cameras and lenses usually cost more in the UK than in the USA, but
    after allowing for the UK's new VAT rate of 20% (up from 17.5% last
    month) the camera is only about 6% more expensive here (GBP 899.00
    including 20% VAT). By the time you pay a typical rate of sales tax
    on the US price, that makes the US and UK prices almost equal.

    I haven't tried one yet but apparently we sold three yesterday to
    customers who had pre-ordered them. We won't be trying one ourselves
    until all the pre-orders have been satisfied. At the predicted rate
    of delivery, that will be about 5-6 weeks from now.
    Bruce, Feb 20, 2011
    #5
  6. RichA

    Rich Guest

    Re: Fuji's X100; at best, a fixed-lens ornament?

    On Feb 20, 9:44 am, Alan Browne <>
    wrote:
    > On 2011.02.20 1:54 , Jeff R. wrote:
    >
    > > The latest Leica comes close at 10x the price.

    >
    > In the end the biggest failure of the Fuji X100 will be that it does not
    > have a small number of FFL lenses and/or 1 or 2 really well designed zooms.
    >
    > And none of that would add clutter to what seems to be a "classically"
    > good control layout.
    >
    > As a single, non zooming lens camera, it will have limited appeal.
    >
    > It would do wonders for ones composition skills - much like the hoary
    > old advice to learn with a 50mm lens.


    Another reason Fuji might have shot themselves in the foot; limited
    accessory sale potentail.
    Rich, Feb 20, 2011
    #6
  7. RichA

    Rich Guest

    Re: Fuji's X100; at best, a fixed-lens ornament?

    On Feb 20, 1:54 am, "Jeff R." <> wrote:
    > "RichA" <> wrote in message
    >
    > news:...
    >
    > > ... This isn't 1985, and paying $1200 for what amounts to a
    > > (then) P&S 35mm camera with a single 38mm lens that used to sell for
    > > $100.00 strikes me as odd.

    >
    > That doesn't mean that it *is* odd.
    >
    > Since you seem to disapprove of the X100 so much, could you help me out
    > here?
    > Can you point me towards another compact camera which has:
    >
    > * a shutter speed dial on the top;
    > (not a frustratingly inaccessible menu-selected rear-mounted thumbwheel; one
    > which isn't immediately visible at a glance; one which doesn't insult my
    > intelligence with baby-styled modes of operation like "fireworks" or
    > "self-portrait")  (etc. etc.)


    Since it's the default for most cameras to have that function assigned
    to the thumbwheel, it doesn't present much of a problem, unless
    looking at the LCD or through the viewfinder (where the s/s, apeture
    are displayed) is a hassle.

    > * an exposure comp. dial readily accessible;
    > (same arguments as above)


    That fuction is readily available or can be assigned to a button for
    most cameras.

    > * a focus ring that turns manually around the lens;
    > (not some crappy servo-driven too-fast or too-slow push-button control)
    >


    I'd agree with that.

    > * an aperture dial on the top;
    > (not some crappy menu-driven selection which resets when you turn the camera
    > off.)


    Again, it's no hassle in any modern camera.


    > AND NOTHING ELSE to clutter up the vital controls on the top plate?


    You mean other functions don't rate any use?



    > Well?
    > The latest Leica comes close at 10x the price.


    You mean the X1? It's $2000, or about $800 more.

    > If you don't really understand the attraction of the X100 design. do you
    > think it's wise to bag it so comprehensively?


    The attraction is limited, as is the camera. My issue was with Fuji
    hugely limiting themselves with it.

    > As to the fixed lens:  My favourite camera of all time, by an order of
    > magnitude, was my Olympus 35RC.  FFL, 42mm, and otherwise practically
    > identical to the X100.  Brilliant camera.  Magnificent results.


    I had one. Reasonable and limited results are more like it.

    > If the Fuji can replicate that experience, then it's worth the beefy price
    > tag.


    Nostalgia is fine, as long as you aren't remembering through a haze.
    If you ditch all your other grear and then really use the Fuji, a lot,
    then you have something. If it hasn't be consigned to the ornament
    pile, no...


    > (The M9, BTW, is not worth the entry price, but it sure looks like it works
    > nicely.)


    Sure it is. It's build-quality alone separates it from all the other
    cameras out there.

    > >...A brave, fool-hardy initiative
    > > by Fuji

    >
    > Hmmm...
    > Here's an idea.
    > If the X100 turns out to be anything other than a brilliant marketing
    > initiative (based on sales) will you come back here in, say, a year's time,
    > and eat your words?  Publicly?


    Sure, because I'm not system tied, I hope they succeed with it and it
    allows them to do other, more practical things. But I don't think it
    will amount to much more than a limited back-up to versatile gear.
    BTW, we don't need a year. A couple months will determine if it has
    what it takes to be successful.

    > Jeff R.
    > (no - I didn't think so)
    Rich, Feb 20, 2011
    #7
  8. RichA

    Robert Coe Guest

    On Sun, 20 Feb 2011 09:44:05 -0500, Alan Browne
    <> wrote:
    : On 2011.02.20 1:54 , Jeff R. wrote:
    :
    : > The latest Leica comes close at 10x the price.
    :
    : In the end the biggest failure of the Fuji X100 will be that it does not
    : have a small number of FFL lenses and/or 1 or 2 really well designed zooms.
    :
    : And none of that would add clutter to what seems to be a "classically"
    : good control layout.
    :
    : As a single, non zooming lens camera, it will have limited appeal.
    :
    : It would do wonders for ones composition skills - much like the hoary
    : old advice to learn with a 50mm lens.

    I guess I don't agree with that hoary old advice, which seems to advocate an
    absurdly slow way to learn the skill. I think the two best aids to learning
    composition are a wide-range zoom lens and a photo editor with a good cropping
    tool.

    Bob
    Robert Coe, Feb 20, 2011
    #8
  9. RichA

    BmEcksNZ Guest

    Re: Fuji's X100; at best, a fixed-lens ornament?


    > :
    > : It would do wonders for ones composition skills - much like the hoary
    > : old advice to learn with a 50mm lens.
    >
    > I guess I don't agree with that hoary old advice, which seems to advocate an
    > absurdly slow way to learn the skill. I think the two best aids to learning
    > composition are a wide-range zoom lens and a photo editor with a good cropping
    > tool.
    >
    > Bob


    Ergo, just get a fixed lens like to X100, and learn to crop before
    pressing the trigger, save yourself the bother of getting the bulky
    and slow wide range zoom lens with all its compromises.

    However did you cope before photoshop??

    Cheers
    Steve
    BmEcksNZ, Feb 20, 2011
    #9
  10. RichA

    PeterN Guest

    Re: Fuji's X100; at best, a fixed-lens ornament?

    On 2/20/2011 6:34 PM, BmEcksNZ wrote:
    >
    >> :
    >> : It would do wonders for ones composition skills - much like the hoary
    >> : old advice to learn with a 50mm lens.
    >>
    >> I guess I don't agree with that hoary old advice, which seems to advocate an
    >> absurdly slow way to learn the skill. I think the two best aids to learning
    >> composition are a wide-range zoom lens and a photo editor with a good cropping
    >> tool.
    >>
    >> Bob

    >
    > Ergo, just get a fixed lens like to X100, and learn to crop before
    > pressing the trigger, save yourself the bother of getting the bulky
    > and slow wide range zoom lens with all its compromises.
    >
    > However did you cope before photoshop??
    >


    I had an amazing device called an "enlarger." I inserted another thing
    called "film" on a stage with a cropping mask into the enlarger. I then
    turned it on and presto!

    --
    Peter
    PeterN, Feb 20, 2011
    #10
  11. RichA

    PeterN Guest

    On 2/20/2011 6:42 PM, Alan Browne wrote:
    > On 2011.02.20 18:11 , Robert Coe wrote:
    >> On Sun, 20 Feb 2011 09:44:05 -0500, Alan Browne
    >> <> wrote:
    >> : On 2011.02.20 1:54 , Jeff R. wrote:
    >> :
    >> :> The latest Leica comes close at 10x the price.
    >> :
    >> : In the end the biggest failure of the Fuji X100 will be that it does
    >> not
    >> : have a small number of FFL lenses and/or 1 or 2 really well designed
    >> zooms.
    >> :
    >> : And none of that would add clutter to what seems to be a "classically"
    >> : good control layout.
    >> :
    >> : As a single, non zooming lens camera, it will have limited appeal.
    >> :
    >> : It would do wonders for ones composition skills - much like the hoary
    >> : old advice to learn with a 50mm lens.
    >>
    >> I guess I don't agree with that hoary old advice, which seems to
    >> advocate an
    >> absurdly slow way to learn the skill. I think the two best aids to
    >> learning
    >> composition are a wide-range zoom lens and a photo editor with a good
    >> cropping
    >> tool.

    >
    > The old advice was good in the film days when there was no immediate
    > feedback to the learning photographer, so he had to focus on artistic as
    > well as technical issues for every shot. Limiting to a general focal
    > length was a good way to reduce the variables.
    >
    > Since digital cameras have come along, people learn from their
    > compositions within seconds of taking the shot - not to mention exposure
    > issues and so on. So adding variables (zoom) does not matter as much.
    ><snip>


    Err! Some people never learn.

    --
    Peter
    PeterN, Feb 20, 2011
    #11
  12. RichA

    dj_nme Guest

    On 21/02/2011 10:46 AM, PeterN wrote:
    <snip>
    >> <snip>

    >
    > Err! Some people never learn.


    That you snip and then leave a non-sequitor reply?
    Or, some other pearl of wisdom which you're hiding?

    please explain.
    dj_nme, Feb 21, 2011
    #12
  13. RichA

    Robert Coe Guest

    Re: Fuji's X100; at best, a fixed-lens ornament?

    On Sun, 20 Feb 2011 15:34:55 -0800 (PST), BmEcksNZ <> wrote:
    :
    : > :
    : > : It would do wonders for ones composition skills - much like the hoary
    : > : old advice to learn with a 50mm lens.
    : >
    : > I guess I don't agree with that hoary old advice, which seems to
    : > advocate an absurdly slow way to learn the skill. I think the two
    : > best aids to learning composition are a wide-range zoom lens and
    : > a photo editor with a good cropping tool.
    : >
    : > Bob
    :
    : Ergo, just get a fixed lens like to X100, and learn to crop before
    : pressing the trigger, save yourself the bother of getting the bulky
    : and slow wide range zoom lens with all its compromises.
    :
    : However did you cope before photoshop??

    Funny you should ask. I have never used Photoshop.

    Bob
    Robert Coe, Feb 21, 2011
    #13
  14. RichA

    Robert Coe Guest

    On Sun, 20 Feb 2011 18:42:51 -0500, Alan Browne
    <> wrote:
    : On 2011.02.20 18:11 , Robert Coe wrote:
    : > On Sun, 20 Feb 2011 09:44:05 -0500, Alan Browne
    : > <> wrote:
    : > : On 2011.02.20 1:54 , Jeff R. wrote:
    : > :
    : > :> The latest Leica comes close at 10x the price.
    : > :
    : > : In the end the biggest failure of the Fuji X100 will be that it does not
    : > : have a small number of FFL lenses and/or 1 or 2 really well designed zooms.
    : > :
    : > : And none of that would add clutter to what seems to be a "classically"
    : > : good control layout.
    : > :
    : > : As a single, non zooming lens camera, it will have limited appeal.
    : > :
    : > : It would do wonders for ones composition skills - much like the hoary
    : > : old advice to learn with a 50mm lens.
    : >
    : > I guess I don't agree with that hoary old advice, which seems to advocate an
    : > absurdly slow way to learn the skill. I think the two best aids to learning
    : > composition are a wide-range zoom lens and a photo editor with a good cropping
    : > tool.
    :
    : The old advice was good in the film days when there was no immediate
    : feedback to the learning photographer, so he had to focus on artistic as
    : well as technical issues for every shot. Limiting to a general focal
    : length was a good way to reduce the variables.

    To me, it's like learning to play the recorder if your objective is to learn
    the flute. It can't do any harm, but it doesn't advance the ball very much.

    : Since digital cameras have come along, people learn from their
    : compositions within seconds of taking the shot - not to mention exposure
    : issues and so on. So adding variables (zoom) does not matter as much.
    :
    : As to zoom, one should avoid zooms with more than 3:1 zoom ratio. At
    : that point the compromises begin to show in the image quality somewhere
    : in the zoom range, not to mention being constrained to smaller apertures
    : and variable max aperture lenses.

    I wasn't shilling for high-ratio zooms. My point was simply that it's a fine
    device to have available if you want to learn composition in a hurry. It's a
    dynamic, on-the-spot cropping tool, and a lot of composition is knowing how to
    crop effectively.

    Actually, the highest-ratio zoom I ever owned was a 28-135 that came with my
    50D. I didn't need it, so I gave it to my wife.

    Bob
    Robert Coe, Feb 21, 2011
    #14
  15. RichA

    Bruce Guest

    Paul Furman <> wrote:
    >Bruce wrote:
    >> Paul Furman<> wrote:
    >>> $2000
    >>> http://www.digitaltrends.com/photography/fujifilm-x100-and-its-hybrid-viewfinder-are-here/
    >>>
    >>> I love the idea but not at that price!
    >>> http://www.onecall.com/product/Fuji/FinePix-X100/Digital-Camera/_/R-109596

    >>
    >>
    >> I don't know where you get $2000 from, Paul. The article and the
    >> advert both quote a price of $1199.95.
    >>
    >> Cameras and lenses usually cost more in the UK than in the USA, but
    >> after allowing for the UK's new VAT rate of 20% (up from 17.5% last
    >> month) the camera is only about 6% more expensive here (GBP 899.00
    >> including 20% VAT). By the time you pay a typical rate of sales tax
    >> on the US price, that makes the US and UK prices almost equal.
    >>
    >> I haven't tried one yet but apparently we sold three yesterday to
    >> customers who had pre-ordered them. We won't be trying one ourselves
    >> until all the pre-orders have been satisfied. At the predicted rate
    >> of delivery, that will be about 5-6 weeks from now.

    >
    >Doh! (cross-eyed brain freeze on the price)
    >
    >I would still be much more interested at a lower price but yeah, that's
    >a lot less than a Leica and sounds very handy. The fixed lens doesn't
    >bother me at all, I agree about fewer factors helping composition. You
    >just learn to see better, where zoom can lead you to zoom in on some
    >preconceived notion without really paying attention to the whole scene
    >you saw before lifting the camera up. I know it sounds like hogwash but
    >it's true. It's a lot easier to learn to draw with just a black charcoal
    >vs starting with a copy of photoshop and adobe illustrator. Frankly, few
    >can really do anything good with that many tools and many won't ever
    >want all that.



    Absolutely right. Unfortunately, there is an obsession with features,
    and that means that most people posting here will demand a zoom lens
    .... with at least enough zoom range to ensure that its optical
    performance is severely blunted. ;-)


    >I also like the manual dials and no top LCD. Just set them where you
    >want and know where they are... I get annoyed having to remember to push
    >some button to even see where ISO and exposure comp are at any given
    >time. I'm not clear how shutter speed works though - how do you set
    >shutter speed?



    I don't know, sorry.

    It will be several weeks before I get my hands on one. :-(
    Bruce, Feb 21, 2011
    #15
  16. RichA

    Bruce Guest

    Re: Fuji's X100; at best, a fixed-lens ornament?

    BmEcksNZ <> wrote:

    >
    >> :
    >> : It would do wonders for ones composition skills - much like the hoary
    >> : old advice to learn with a 50mm lens.
    >>
    >> I guess I don't agree with that hoary old advice, which seems to advocate an
    >> absurdly slow way to learn the skill. I think the two best aids to learning
    >> composition are a wide-range zoom lens and a photo editor with a good cropping
    >> tool.
    >>
    >> Bob

    >
    >Ergo, just get a fixed lens like to X100, and learn to crop before
    >pressing the trigger, save yourself the bother of getting the bulky
    >and slow wide range zoom lens with all its compromises.
    >
    >However did you cope before photoshop??



    That's dangerous talk ...

    .... especially on newsgroups where most people posting seem to buy a
    DSLR that takes interchangeable lenses, then spend months finding just
    one "walkaround" lens with a huge zoom range that ensures they will
    never again have to change lenses. This also ensures their images
    will never be sharp unless they are shot at f/8 or f/11.

    But who cares? Because no-one ever prints their images. They just
    look at their 12 MP masterpieces on LCD monitors that can only display
    1 or 2 MP. ;-)
    Bruce, Feb 21, 2011
    #16
  17. RichA

    Whisky-dave Guest

    Re: Fuji's X100; at best, a fixed-lens ornament?

    On Feb 20, 11:44 pm, PeterN <> wrote:
    > On 2/20/2011 6:34 PM, BmEcksNZ wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > >> :
    > >> : It would do wonders for ones composition skills - much like the hoary
    > >> : old advice to learn with a 50mm lens.

    >
    > >> I guess I don't agree with that hoary old advice, which seems to advocate an
    > >> absurdly slow way to learn the skill. I think the two best aids to learning
    > >> composition are a wide-range zoom lens and a photo editor with a good cropping
    > >> tool.

    >
    > >> Bob

    >
    > > Ergo, just get a fixed lens like to X100, and learn to crop before
    > > pressing the trigger, save yourself the bother of getting the bulky
    > > and slow wide range zoom lens with all its compromises.

    >
    > > However did you cope before photoshop??

    >
    > I had an amazing device called an "enlarger." I inserted another thing
    > called "film" on a stage with a cropping mask into the enlarger. I then
    > turned it on and presto!


    Funny you should say that as I was just thinking that I used to have a
    guillotine for cropping
    before photoshop came along, before that I used scissors or a Stanley
    knife and a ruler.
    I have a vague memory of using a glazer before high glossy paper was
    affordable.
    Whisky-dave, Feb 21, 2011
    #17
  18. RichA

    Robert Coe Guest

    On Mon, 21 Feb 2011 06:31:22 -0800, Savageduck
    <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
    : On 2011-02-20 20:53:02 -0800, Paul Furman <> said:
    :
    : > Bruce wrote:
    : >> Paul Furman<> wrote:
    : >>> $2000
    : >>> http://www.digitaltrends.com/photography/fujifilm-x100-and-its-hybrid-viewfinder-are-here/
    :
    : I
    : >>>
    : >>> love the idea but not at that price!
    : >>> http://www.onecall.com/product/Fuji/FinePix-X100/Digital-Camera/_/R-109596
    : >>
    : >>
    : >> I don't know where you get $2000 from, Paul. The article and the
    : >> advert both quote a price of $1199.95.
    : >>
    : >> Cameras and lenses usually cost more in the UK than in the USA, but
    : >> after allowing for the UK's new VAT rate of 20% (up from 17.5% last
    : >> month) the camera is only about 6% more expensive here (GBP 899.00
    : >> including 20% VAT). By the time you pay a typical rate of sales tax
    : >> on the US price, that makes the US and UK prices almost equal.
    : >>
    : >> I haven't tried one yet but apparently we sold three yesterday to
    : >> customers who had pre-ordered them. We won't be trying one ourselves
    : >> until all the pre-orders have been satisfied. At the predicted rate
    : >> of delivery, that will be about 5-6 weeks from now.
    : >
    : > Doh! (cross-eyed brain freeze on the price)
    : >
    : > I would still be much more interested at a lower price but yeah, that's
    : > a lot less than a Leica and sounds very handy. The fixed lens doesn't
    : > bother me at all, I agree about fewer factors helping composition. You
    : > just learn to see better, where zoom can lead you to zoom in on some
    : > preconceived notion without really paying attention to the whole scene
    : > you saw before lifting the camera up. I know it sounds like hogwash but
    : > it's true. It's a lot easier to learn to draw with just a black
    : > charcoal vs starting with a copy of photoshop and adobe illustrator.
    : > Frankly, few can really do anything good with that many tools and many
    : > won't ever want all that.
    : >
    : > I also like the manual dials and no top LCD. Just set them where you
    : > want and know where they are... I get annoyed having to remember to
    : > push some button to even see where ISO and exposure comp are at any
    : > given time. I'm not clear how shutter speed works though - how do you
    : > set shutter speed?
    :
    : Just examining the photographs and video on the Fujifilm site, one of
    : the top dials is a dedicated shutter speed selector. The other top dial
    : is for exposure compensation from "B" to 4000. Aperture is traditional
    : on the lens.
    : The lever on the front is the "Viewfinder selector".
    : It seems to me that the great part of having the hybrid OVF/EVF, is the
    : ability to do away with parallax issues if they ever move to an
    : interchangeable lens system in the future.

    Is the "fixed" lens already removable? If not, it's hard to see how any
    features of the current camera are relevant to a future move to an
    interchangeable lens system.

    Bob
    Robert Coe, Feb 21, 2011
    #18
  19. RichA

    Bruce Guest

    Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
    >Just examining the photographs and video on the Fujifilm site, one of
    >the top dials is a dedicated shutter speed selector. The other top dial
    >is for exposure compensation from "B" to 4000. Aperture is traditional
    >on the lens.
    >The lever on the front is the "Viewfinder selector".
    >It seems to me that the great part of having the hybrid OVF/EVF, is the
    >ability to do away with parallax issues if they ever move to an
    >interchangeable lens system in the future.



    Mechanical correction of parallax has been around for decades. While
    the high-priced Leica rangefinders had it, they didn't have a monopoly
    on that feature. Several Japanese-made 35mm rangefinder cameras also
    had it, including some that sold at a small fraction of then-current
    Leica prices.

    Kyocera Yashica used a complex and more expensive solution in the
    Contax G series of autofocus p+s 35mm film cameras. An LCD was placed
    in the viewfinder optics and progressively opened up the view on one
    side while closing it down on the other using opaque strips that could
    be turned on and off. It worked well enough, but it probably made the
    cameras more expensive than they needed to be.

    Back to the X100. There is a direct comparison between this camera
    and the Konica Hexar AF 35mm film compact camera which had a very high
    quality fixed 35mm f/2 lens. The Hexar AF was a low production camera
    that was intended to test the market for a more expensive camera that
    would accept interchangeable lenses.

    History tells us that the Hexar AF sold many times more copies than
    expected. The success of the camera encouraged Konica to develop the
    Hexar RF which had a KM bayonet mount that was compatible with Leica M
    mount lenses. It sold well. Alas, it became a casualty of the failed
    merger of Konica and Minolta.

    [Had the parlous state of Minolta's camera business been apparent,
    Konica would have run a mile rather than merge. But I digress.]

    So Konica's success with the Hexar RF led to a version that took
    interchangeable lenses. If Fuji succeeds with the X100, expect a
    second model before too long, one that will also take interchangeable
    lenses.

    An interesting thought ... the Contax G1 and G2, the Konica Hexar AF
    and RF, the Fuji TX-1 and TX-2 (a.k.a. Hasselblad X-Pan and X=Pan II)
    were all manufactured by the same contractor. I am told that the Fuji
    X100 is also manufactured by the same contractor ...
    Bruce, Feb 21, 2011
    #19
  20. RichA

    Bruce Guest

    Robert Coe <> wrote:
    >
    >Is the "fixed" lens already removable?



    No. They call it "fixed" because it is. Fixed. ;-)
    Bruce, Feb 21, 2011
    #20
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