Fuji X100 milled out of metal?

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by RichA, Mar 8, 2011.

  1. RichA

    RichA Guest

    Is the implication here that like the Leica M9, the Fuji is milled out
    of blocks of aluminum/magnesium and not just cast and then machined?
    If so, kudos to Fuji.

    1Design concept: The camera as a metaphor.

    * The word metaphor originates from the Greek word 'metapherein',
    which means 'transfer', and describes a word or phrase literally
    denoting one kind of object or idea used in place of another to
    suggest a likeness or analogy between them. In designing the X100, we
    wanted to make a camera that evoked certain associations such as 'at a
    glance, anyone knows it’s a tool for taking photos' and 'anyone who
    sees it, immediately associates it with capturing high-quality
    photos.' The transformation of impressions such as these into a
    concrete form is where the design team started.
    * For many the image of a camera is formed from their original
    encounter with a camera as a child. For example, for some people, the
    camera could be something that, in their childhood, they often saw
    adorning their father’s room – a precious device that they were never
    permitted to touch, but have always yearned to hold. Also for today’s
    young generation, the trend is the near-futuristic designs of the
    latest cell phones and digital cameras may not look new. In contrary,
    they sense a newness in analogue craftsmanship and precision that
    embodies the essence of tools. This is the image that X100 is designed
    to express.

    2Day after day of rethinking and refining the design. One of the first
    things to come out of this process was a renewed awareness of the
    'power of colour'.

    * In the mockup stage, the design team actually studied a variety
    of forms from a cutting-edge look that exemplified the contemporary
    digital camera to more orthodox styling. However, as long as the X100
    is a camera equipped with a lens of exceptionally high image quality,
    manual operation and the large easy-to-view viewfinder, it was
    believed that the most suitable appearance should evoke memories of a
    camera seen sometime in the past.
    * The epitome of the camera of yesteryear had a black body
    sandwiched between the base part and the upper control deck, and
    integrated a silver lens. The combination of silver and black somehow
    instantly communicates that 'this is a camera.'
    * While this choice creates a huge gap with the state-of-the-art
    technology packed inside the camera, the use of the orthodox colour
    scheme makes a large contribution to expressing the X100 concept.

    3The first challenge: Positioning of the aperture ring on the same
    axis as the lens.

    * Throughout the X100 design process right up to its completion,
    the design team received input from many professional photographers.
    The objective was to not only create a camera with a beautiful
    exterior appearance, but also realise operability that would measure
    up to the work demands of pro photographers.
    * About the time that the overall form and the positioning of
    dials were decided, several pro photographers strongly urged the
    inclusion of a 'lens aperture ring.' Without doubt, enabling the user
    to control exposure – the most important factor in photography, while
    looking through the viewfinder, is an indispensable function.
    * However, in the case of the X100 with its large sensor, compact
    body and 'bright' large-aperture lens, the incorporation of an
    aperture lens ring without changing the size posed an extremely
    difficult challenge. From a design perspective, the team was initially
    ready to omit a lens aperture ring, but after carefully listening to
    the photographers who opened the team’s eyes to why this specification
    was necessary, they revisited the design with renewed enthusiasm. The
    result of the design and refinements is the realisation of the current
    form.

    From the website;
    Design encompassing a tactile experience, the amount of force (torque)
    required for the controls, and even the sound of camera operation.

    * In order for the design to evoke the image of luxury items such
    as a classic fountain pen or a wristwatch and bring out the quality of
    its materials while leaving a tactile impression when touching the
    smallest details, each part is precision milled from metal.
    * Unlike the more generally used method of press fabrication, the
    milling of metal block material makes it possible to create parts that
    are free from pressure deformation and processed with high precision
    to exact measurements.
    RichA, Mar 8, 2011
    #1
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  2. RichA

    Jeff R. Guest

    "RichA" <> wrote in message
    news:...

    > Is the implication here that like the Leica M9, the Fuji is milled out
    > of blocks of aluminum/magnesium and not just cast and then machined?


    > If so, kudos to Fuji.


    Ummmm... I don't understand.

    Really.

    What's wrong with casting Al/Mg alloys then machining them?

    Has someone told Ferrari and Lamborghini?

    --
    Jeff R.
    (How is this going to affect the X100?)
    Jeff R., Mar 8, 2011
    #2
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  3. RichA

    Bruce Guest

    RichA <> wrote:
    >Is the implication here that like the Leica M9, the Fuji is milled out
    >of blocks of aluminum/magnesium and not just cast and then machined?
    >If so, kudos to Fuji.
    >" * Unlike the more generally used method of press fabrication, the
    >milling of metal block material makes it possible to create parts that
    >are free from pressure deformation and processed with high precision
    >to exact measurements."



    Are you sure that rules out "cast and then machined"?
    Bruce, Mar 8, 2011
    #3
  4. RichA

    charles Guest

    On Mon, 7 Mar 2011 21:02:41 -0800 (PST), RichA <>
    wrote:

    >Is the implication here that like the Leica M9, the Fuji is milled out
    >of blocks of aluminum/magnesium and not just cast and then machined?
    >If so, kudos to Fuji.
    >

    maybe they can run them off on a printer.

    Not as farfetched as it might sound.

    Economist Magazine has an article at:
    http://www.economist.com/node/18114221?story_id=18114221
    charles, Mar 8, 2011
    #4
  5. RichA

    DanP Guest

    On Mar 8, 5:02 am, RichA <> wrote:
    > Is the implication here that like the Leica M9, the Fuji is milled out
    > of blocks of aluminum/magnesium and not just cast and then machined?
    > If so, kudos to Fuji.


    Milling when casting can do the job is plain stupid, it only makes the
    product more expensive with no benefit to camera quality.
    If you are clumsy and drop your camera on concrete get a plastic body,
    is more resistant to shocks.
    Or use the neck strap.

    This week you bitch about product quality, next week about price.

    DanP
    DanP, Mar 8, 2011
    #5
  6. RichA

    RichA Guest

    On Mar 8, 4:45 am, Bruce <> wrote:
    > RichA <> wrote:
    > >Is the implication here that like the Leica M9, the Fuji is milled out
    > >of blocks of aluminum/magnesium and not just cast and then machined?
    > >If so, kudos to Fuji.
    > >" * Unlike the more generally used method of press fabrication, the
    > >milling of metal block material makes it possible to create parts that
    > >are free from pressure deformation and processed with high precision
    > >to exact measurements."

    >
    > Are you sure that rules out "cast and then machined"?


    Block usually means a piece of extruded metal, not a casting.
    RichA, Mar 8, 2011
    #6
  7. RichA

    RichA Guest

    On Mar 8, 5:19 am, DanP <> wrote:
    > On Mar 8, 5:02 am, RichA <> wrote:
    >
    > > Is the implication here that like the Leica M9, the Fuji is milled out
    > > of blocks of aluminum/magnesium and not just cast and then machined?
    > > If so, kudos to Fuji.

    >
    > Milling when casting can do the job is plain stupid, it only makes the
    > product more expensive with no benefit to camera quality.
    > If you are clumsy and drop your camera on concrete get a plastic body,
    > is more resistant to shocks.
    > Or use the neck strap.


    Casting can introduce problems. Voids can show up and unless the
    metal mix is accurate and even, you can get weak spots.
    RichA, Mar 8, 2011
    #7
  8. RichA

    RichA Guest

    On Mar 8, 9:55 am, Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
    > On 2011-03-08 06:02:36 -0800, RichA <> said:
    >
    > > On Mar 8, 5:19 am, DanP <> wrote:
    > >> On Mar 8, 5:02 am, RichA <> wrote:

    >
    > >>> Is the implication here that like the Leica M9, the Fuji is milled out
    > >>> of blocks of aluminum/magnesium and not just cast and then machined?
    > >>> If so, kudos to Fuji.

    >
    > >> Milling when casting can do the job is plain stupid, it only makes the
    > >> product more expensive with no benefit to camera quality.
    > >> If you are clumsy and drop your camera on concrete get a plastic body,
    > >> is more resistant to shocks.
    > >> Or use the neck strap.

    >
    > > Casting can introduce problems.  Voids can show up and unless the
    > > metal mix is accurate and even, you can get weak spots.

    >
    > See my other response to you, where I threw sintering into the mix.
    > Sintering addresses just that issue, and produces quality castings
    > which can then be machined to final finish.
    >
    > BTW: Just when did you become so knowledgeable on metallurgy?
    >
    > --
    > Regards,
    >
    > Savageduck


    But anodized, machined billet stock looks SO much better than cast and
    painted product. It is also stronger.
    I thought sintering resulted in a porous mix? Isn't that why they
    use it to make metallic filters?
    RichA, Mar 8, 2011
    #8
  9. RichA

    Me Guest

    On 8/03/2011 6:02 p.m., RichA wrote:
    > Is the implication here that like the Leica M9, the Fuji is milled out
    > of blocks of aluminum/magnesium and not just cast and then machined?
    > If so, kudos to Fuji.
    >

    Fuji Press release states:

    "The upper control deck/bottom surface has been cast from magnesium
    alloy (semi-solid metal casting) to contribute to a high-precision
    camera body with high rigidity."
    Me, Mar 8, 2011
    #9
  10. RichA

    Peter N Guest

    On Mon, 7 Mar 2011 21:02:41 -0800 (PST), RichA <>
    wrote:
    > Is the implication here that like the Leica M9, the Fuji is milled

    out
    > of blocks of aluminum/magnesium and not just cast and then machined?
    > If so, kudos to Fuji.



    > 1Design concept: The camera as a metaphor.



    > * The word metaphor originates from the Greek word

    'metapherein',
    > which means 'transfer', and describes a word or phrase literally
    > denoting one kind of object or idea used in place of another to
    > suggest a likeness or analogy between them. In designing the X100,

    we
    > wanted to make a camera that evoked certain associations such as

    'at a
    > glance, anyone knows its a tool for taking photos' and 'anyone who
    > sees it, immediately associates it with capturing high-quality
    > photos.' The transformation of impressions such as these into a
    > concrete form is where the design team started.
    > * For many the image of a camera is formed from their original
    > encounter with a camera as a child. For example, for some people,

    the
    > camera could be something that, in their childhood, they often saw
    > adorning their fathers room  a precious device that they were

    never
    > permitted to touch, but have always yearned to hold. Also for

    todays
    > young generation, the trend is the near-futuristic designs of the
    > latest cell phones and digital cameras may not look new. In

    contrary,
    > they sense a newness in analogue craftsmanship and precision that
    > embodies the essence of tools. This is the image that X100 is

    designed
    > to express.



    > 2Day after day of rethinking and refining the design. One of the

    first
    > things to come out of this process was a renewed awareness of the
    > 'power of colour'.



    > * In the mockup stage, the design team actually studied a

    variety
    > of forms from a cutting-edge look that exemplified the contemporary
    > digital camera to more orthodox styling. However, as long as the

    X100
    > is a camera equipped with a lens of exceptionally high image

    quality,
    > manual operation and the large easy-to-view viewfinder, it was
    > believed that the most suitable appearance should evoke memories of

    a
    > camera seen sometime in the past.
    > * The epitome of the camera of yesteryear had a black body
    > sandwiched between the base part and the upper control deck, and
    > integrated a silver lens. The combination of silver and black

    somehow
    > instantly communicates that 'this is a camera.'
    > * While this choice creates a huge gap with the state-of-the-art
    > technology packed inside the camera, the use of the orthodox colour
    > scheme makes a large contribution to expressing the X100 concept.



    > 3The first challenge: Positioning of the aperture ring on the same
    > axis as the lens.



    > * Throughout the X100 design process right up to its completion,
    > the design team received input from many professional photographers.
    > The objective was to not only create a camera with a beautiful
    > exterior appearance, but also realise operability that would measure
    > up to the work demands of pro photographers.
    > * About the time that the overall form and the positioning of
    > dials were decided, several pro photographers strongly urged the
    > inclusion of a 'lens aperture ring.' Without doubt, enabling the

    user
    > to control exposure  the most important factor in photography,

    while
    > looking through the viewfinder, is an indispensable function.
    > * However, in the case of the X100 with its large sensor,

    compact
    > body and 'bright' large-aperture lens, the incorporation of an
    > aperture lens ring without changing the size posed an extremely
    > difficult challenge. From a design perspective, the team was

    initially
    > ready to omit a lens aperture ring, but after carefully listening to
    > the photographers who opened the teams eyes to why this

    specification
    > was necessary, they revisited the design with renewed enthusiasm.

    The
    > result of the design and refinements is the realisation of the

    current
    > form.



    > From the website;
    > Design encompassing a tactile experience, the amount of force

    (torque)
    > required for the controls, and even the sound of camera operation.



    > * In order for the design to evoke the image of luxury items

    such
    > as a classic fountain pen or a wristwatch and bring out the quality

    of
    > its materials while leaving a tactile impression when touching the
    > smallest details, each part is precision milled from metal.
    > * Unlike the more generally used method of press fabrication,

    the
    > milling of metal block material makes it possible to create parts

    that
    > are free from pressure deformation and processed with high precision
    > to exact measurements.


    We can all see how busy the Canon marketing department is.
    Wonder if all employees there are given Nikons.

    --
    from my Droid
    Peter N, Mar 8, 2011
    #10
  11. RichA

    Peter N Guest

    On Tue, 8 Mar 2011 06:02:02 -0800 (PST), RichA <>
    wrote:
    > > RichA <> wrote:
    > > >Is the implication here that like the Leica M9, the Fuji is

    milled out
    > > >of blocks of aluminum/magnesium and not just cast and then

    machined?
    > > >milling of metal block material makes it possible to create

    parts that
    > > >are free from pressure deformation and processed with high

    precision
    > > >to exact measurements."

    > >
    > > Are you sure that rules out "cast and then machined"?



    > Block usually means a piece of extruded metal, not a casting.


    The term is frequently used as a descriptor of a type of head

    --
    from my Droid
    Peter N, Mar 8, 2011
    #11
  12. RichA

    Peter N Guest

    On Tue, 8 Mar 2011 06:55:24 -0800, Savageduck
    <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
    > On 2011-03-08 06:02:36 -0800, RichA <> said:



    > > On Mar 8, 5:19am, DanP <> wrote:
    > >> On Mar 8, 5:02am, RichA <> wrote:
    > >>
    > >>> Is the implication here that like the Leica M9, the Fuji is

    milled out
    > >>> of blocks of aluminum/magnesium and not just cast and then

    machined?
    > >>> If so, kudos to Fuji.
    > >>
    > >> Milling when casting can do the job is plain stupid, it only

    makes the
    > >> product more expensive with no benefit to camera quality.
    > >> If you are clumsy and drop your camera on concrete get a plastic

    body,
    > >> is more resistant to shocks.
    > >> Or use the neck strap.

    > >
    > > Casting can introduce problems. Voids can show up and unless the
    > > metal mix is accurate and even, you can get weak spots.



    > See my other response to you, where I threw sintering into the mix.
    > Sintering addresses just that issue, and produces quality castings
    > which can then be machined to final finish.



    > BTW: Just when did you become so knowledgeable on metallurgy?



    About the same time as:
    Marketing
    Finance
    Strategic planning
    Chemistry
    Physics
    Etc

    --
    from my Droid
    Peter N, Mar 8, 2011
    #12
  13. RichA

    Me Guest

    On 9/03/2011 11:54 a.m., Eric Stevens wrote:
    > On Wed, 09 Mar 2011 09:02:48 +1300, Me<> wrote:
    >
    >> On 8/03/2011 6:02 p.m., RichA wrote:
    >>> Is the implication here that like the Leica M9, the Fuji is milled out
    >>> of blocks of aluminum/magnesium and not just cast and then machined?
    >>> If so, kudos to Fuji.
    >>>

    >> Fuji Press release states:
    >>
    >> "The upper control deck/bottom surface has been cast from magnesium
    >> alloy (semi-solid metal casting) to contribute to a high-precision
    >> camera body with high rigidity."

    >
    > I expect it will be a pressure-die-casting.
    >
    > Regards,
    >
    > Eric Stevens


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi-solid_metal_casting
    Me, Mar 10, 2011
    #13
  14. RichA

    Rich Guest

    On Mar 9, 10:51 pm, Eric Stevens <> wrote:
    > On Thu, 10 Mar 2011 15:19:09 +1300, Me <> wrote:
    > >On 9/03/2011 11:54 a.m., Eric Stevens wrote:
    > >> On Wed, 09 Mar 2011 09:02:48 +1300, Me<>  wrote:

    >
    > >>> On 8/03/2011 6:02 p.m., RichA wrote:
    > >>>> Is the implication here that like the Leica M9, the Fuji is milled out
    > >>>> of blocks of aluminum/magnesium and not just cast and then machined?
    > >>>> If so, kudos to Fuji.

    >
    > >>> Fuji Press release states:

    >
    > >>> "The upper control deck/bottom surface has been cast from magnesium
    > >>> alloy (semi-solid metal casting) to contribute to a high-precision
    > >>> camera body with high rigidity."

    >
    > >> I expect it will be a pressure-die-casting.

    >
    > >> Regards,

    >
    > >> Eric Stevens

    >
    > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi-solid_metal_casting

    >
    > Maybe that's what they mean by 'semi-solid metal casting'. I'm
    > surprised they went to the expense.
    >
    > Regards,
    >
    > Eric Stevens


    Leica beats it then. Their bodies come from billets, or extrusions
    which are machined. The only thing that might be better would be
    machinings from hammer-forgings.
    Rich, Mar 10, 2011
    #14
  15. RichA

    Me Guest

    On 11/03/2011 7:00 a.m., Savageduck wrote:

    >
    > As fine a piece of engineering as Leica produces in its camera frames,
    > the specs you seem to require in cameras priced considerably lower are,
    > for want of a better word, "overkill".
    >

    Was "underkill" with the M8, apparently:
    http://photo.net/leica-rangefinders-forum/00QTrU
    Me, Mar 10, 2011
    #15
  16. RichA

    dj_nme Guest

    On 11/03/2011 6:28 AM, Me wrote:
    > On 11/03/2011 7:00 a.m., Savageduck wrote:
    >
    >>
    >> As fine a piece of engineering as Leica produces in its camera frames,
    >> the specs you seem to require in cameras priced considerably lower are,
    >> for want of a better word, "overkill".
    >>

    > Was "underkill" with the M8, apparently:
    > http://photo.net/leica-rangefinders-forum/00QTrU
    >


    The frame is fine, it's the bottom plate around the latch which seems to
    be the weak point.
    dj_nme, Mar 10, 2011
    #16
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