Fuji s7000 or Olympus C-5060-help a newbie

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by peter, Jan 15, 2004.

  1. peter

    peter Guest

    I am torn between these two camera, which seem to be available for
    about the same price. I like the feel and look of the fuji, and the
    pop up flash; the interface appears easier to use too. Plus, i like
    the ability to save the last 5 frames before releasing the shutter.
    But, i have read concerns about the fuji's image quality, and it does
    not come with a recharger.

    I would typically make prints up to 5x7; rarely at 8x10, fwiw.

    OTOH, the olympus accepts 40.5 mm filters without an adapter (is the
    need to use an adapter a big deal?), and i like the 28mm wide angle
    aspect, as well as the swiveling LCD. The 5060, though, seems awfully
    dark at the long end of the tele.

    i will use the camera for the usual family stuff, pictures of our
    cats, and for shots while skiing; landscapes too.

    any thoughts would be very much appreciated

    also--anyone use beach camera or buydig? they seem to have the best
    price vs. internet ripoff ratio :)

    thanks
    peter, Jan 15, 2004
    #1
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  2. peter

    Dan Sullivan Guest

    "peter" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > I am torn between these two camera, which seem to be available for
    > about the same price. I like the feel and look of the fuji, and the
    > pop up flash; the interface appears easier to use too. Plus, i like
    > the ability to save the last 5 frames before releasing the shutter.
    > But, i have read concerns about the fuji's image quality, and it does
    > not come with a recharger.
    >
    > I would typically make prints up to 5x7; rarely at 8x10, fwiw.


    A 3.2MP camera would be fine for that.

    > OTOH, the olympus accepts 40.5 mm filters without an adapter (is the
    > need to use an adapter a big deal?),


    Not really... just more convenient.

    > and i like the 28mm wide angle


    Then it's the OM.

    > aspect, as well as the swiveling LCD.


    Use the viewfinder.

    The Fuji is an EVF if you haven't seen the camera first hand.

    The OM is a real image viewfinder.

    I like the OM much better.

    The Fuji is like a mini TV screen.

    > The 5060, though, seems awfully
    > dark at the long end of the tele.


    Not a problem.

    > i will use the camera for the usual family stuff, pictures of our
    > cats, and for shots while skiing; landscapes too.


    FYI any camera you take skiing will get VERY cold and when you go indoors
    LOTS of moisture will form in the camera.

    Plan on buying a water resistant digital camera or plan on replacing any
    non-water resistant camera on a regular basis.

    > any thoughts would be very much appreciated
    >
    > also--anyone use beach camera or buydig? they seem to have the best
    > price vs. internet ripoff ratio :)


    Check B&H's price.

    If the other stores are very much less expensive than them... it's a scam.

    You know... if you want a camera that you'll have no problem carrying around
    all the time and one that won't crap because of the cold weather you should
    be considering the OM Stylus 300 or 400.

    I wouldn't take either the Fuji or the OM 5060 out skiing.

    But you may be made of money and wouldn't care...

    Have fun and spend your money wisely, Dan Sullivan
    Dan Sullivan, Jan 15, 2004
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. peter

    Bill Guest

    I do a lot of macro shots, and the S7000 has the better macro. And since you
    can use the EVF to compose them, there's no worry about parallax as there is
    with an optical viewfinder. You could use the LCD to compose macros with the
    Oly, but it's not easy in bright light. Also, the S7000 has the better movie
    mode, if that is of interest to you. The "final 5" continuous mode is very
    useful for nature or action shots. I believe it is unique to Fuji cameras.
    Good luck with whatever you buy....and enjoy taking photos!

    Bill

    "peter" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > I am torn between these two camera, which seem to be available for
    > about the same price. I like the feel and look of the fuji, and the
    > pop up flash; the interface appears easier to use too. Plus, i like
    > the ability to save the last 5 frames before releasing the shutter.
    > But, i have read concerns about the fuji's image quality, and it does
    > not come with a recharger.
    >
    > I would typically make prints up to 5x7; rarely at 8x10, fwiw.
    >
    > OTOH, the olympus accepts 40.5 mm filters without an adapter (is the
    > need to use an adapter a big deal?), and i like the 28mm wide angle
    > aspect, as well as the swiveling LCD. The 5060, though, seems awfully
    > dark at the long end of the tele.
    >
    > i will use the camera for the usual family stuff, pictures of our
    > cats, and for shots while skiing; landscapes too.
    >
    > any thoughts would be very much appreciated
    >
    > also--anyone use beach camera or buydig? they seem to have the best
    > price vs. internet ripoff ratio :)
    >
    > thanks
    Bill, Jan 15, 2004
    #3
  4. "Bill" <> wrote in message
    news:xjANb.4487$iI2.197@lakeread03...
    > I do a lot of macro shots, and the S7000 has the better macro. And since

    you
    > can use the EVF to compose them, there's no worry about parallax as there

    is
    > with an optical viewfinder. You could use the LCD to compose macros with

    the
    > Oly, but it's not easy in bright light. Also, the S7000 has the better

    movie
    > mode, if that is of interest to you. The "final 5" continuous mode is very
    > useful for nature or action shots. I believe it is unique to Fuji cameras.
    > Good luck with whatever you buy....and enjoy taking photos!


    I'd get a C5050 if you want to save ~$250 bucks over a 10.3MP pro DSLR body
    with a 2 lens kit. I was never happy with Fuji SuperCCD's image quality.

    Fuji's "5fps" is a lie, it is only 3.8fps. The 5050 does 3+ fps for 4
    frames at higher resolution.

    Fuji's ISO 160 minimum is because Fuji's glass is a half stop darker than
    competitors at the same aperture, amplifying the image to an ISO 100
    standard would kill them on noise. The Oly's lens is much brighter.

    The filter issue is only a big deal because the tube makes the Fuji
    signicantly bulkier.

    Fuji's movie mode is a lot better, and the only good reason to consider a
    SuperCCD camera.

    Neither are going to blow you away on image quality, but the Oly takes
    better stills.
    George Preddy, Jan 16, 2004
    #4
  5. peter

    Phil Guest

    On 15 Jan 2004 08:56:19 -0800, (peter) wrote:

    >I like the feel and look of the fuji,

    I don't have one but have handled one. I agree about the feel. The
    slightly rubbery texture means that you do not have to grip it hard. I
    liked the EVF too which was bright and easy to see.

    Phil
    Phil, Jan 16, 2004
    #5
  6. peter

    Bill Guest

    What are you talking about and where did you get your information? The
    camera takes 5 frames per second in continuous mode, unless you happen to
    be using a slow memory card, or if the shutter speed would be long enough to
    add time, not ususally the case when you're shooting action shots. Also, the
    lens is f2.8. Period!

    Bill

    "George Preddy" <> wrote in message
    news:bu83fj$927$...
    >
    > "Bill" <> wrote in message
    > news:xjANb.4487$iI2.197@lakeread03...
    > > I do a lot of macro shots, and the S7000 has the better macro. And since

    > you
    > > can use the EVF to compose them, there's no worry about parallax as

    there
    > is
    > > with an optical viewfinder. You could use the LCD to compose macros with

    > the
    > > Oly, but it's not easy in bright light. Also, the S7000 has the better

    > movie
    > > mode, if that is of interest to you. The "final 5" continuous mode is

    very
    > > useful for nature or action shots. I believe it is unique to Fuji

    cameras.
    > > Good luck with whatever you buy....and enjoy taking photos!

    >
    > I'd get a C5050 if you want to save ~$250 bucks over a 10.3MP pro DSLR

    body
    > with a 2 lens kit. I was never happy with Fuji SuperCCD's image quality.
    >
    > Fuji's "5fps" is a lie, it is only 3.8fps. The 5050 does 3+ fps for 4
    > frames at higher resolution.
    >
    > Fuji's ISO 160 minimum is because Fuji's glass is a half stop darker than
    > competitors at the same aperture, amplifying the image to an ISO 100
    > standard would kill them on noise. The Oly's lens is much brighter.
    >
    > The filter issue is only a big deal because the tube makes the Fuji
    > signicantly bulkier.
    >
    > Fuji's movie mode is a lot better, and the only good reason to consider a
    > SuperCCD camera.
    >
    > Neither are going to blow you away on image quality, but the Oly takes
    > better stills.
    >
    >
    Bill, Jan 16, 2004
    #6
  7. "Bill" <> wrote in message
    news:SvQNb.4591$iI2.4554@lakeread03...
    > What are you talking about and where did you get your information? The
    > camera takes 5 frames per second in continuous mode, unless you happen to
    > be using a slow memory card,


    The write doesn't happen until you commit to the pics, so the card used
    makes no difference whatsoever.

    The camera takes 1 pic every 0.26 seconds at 1/10,000 sec shutter speed in
    manual mode. That is the best it can do under any condition and at all
    resolutions. Time it by taking pics of a digtial stop watch, then feel free
    to write back noting that you got scammed.

    > or if the shutter speed would be long enough to
    > add time, not ususally the case when you're shooting action shots. Also,

    the
    > lens is f2.8. Period!


    It's a very dim f2.8. f2.8 is only a geometric ratio, all lenses have
    differing brightnesses at the same f-stop, prosumer zooms are notoriously
    dim. Fuji uses ISO 160 minimum hoping prosumers aren't savvy enough to
    figure out the connection between min ISO and poor lens performance. If
    they used ISO 100, they'd have to amplify to the signal more and they'd get
    killed on noise.

    > "George Preddy" <> wrote in message
    > news:bu83fj$927$...
    > >
    > > "Bill" <> wrote in message
    > > news:xjANb.4487$iI2.197@lakeread03...
    > > > I do a lot of macro shots, and the S7000 has the better macro. And

    since
    > > you
    > > > can use the EVF to compose them, there's no worry about parallax as

    > there
    > > is
    > > > with an optical viewfinder. You could use the LCD to compose macros

    with
    > > the
    > > > Oly, but it's not easy in bright light. Also, the S7000 has the better

    > > movie
    > > > mode, if that is of interest to you. The "final 5" continuous mode is

    > very
    > > > useful for nature or action shots. I believe it is unique to Fuji

    > cameras.
    > > > Good luck with whatever you buy....and enjoy taking photos!

    > >
    > > I'd get a C5050 if you want to save ~$250 bucks over a 10.3MP pro DSLR

    > body
    > > with a 2 lens kit. I was never happy with Fuji SuperCCD's image

    quality.
    > >
    > > Fuji's "5fps" is a lie, it is only 3.8fps. The 5050 does 3+ fps for 4
    > > frames at higher resolution.
    > >
    > > Fuji's ISO 160 minimum is because Fuji's glass is a half stop darker

    than
    > > competitors at the same aperture, amplifying the image to an ISO 100
    > > standard would kill them on noise. The Oly's lens is much brighter.
    > >
    > > The filter issue is only a big deal because the tube makes the Fuji
    > > signicantly bulkier.
    > >
    > > Fuji's movie mode is a lot better, and the only good reason to consider

    a
    > > SuperCCD camera.
    > >
    > > Neither are going to blow you away on image quality, but the Oly takes
    > > better stills.
    > >
    > >

    >
    >
    George Preddy, Jan 16, 2004
    #7
  8. peter

    Bill Guest

    Again I notice you deftly ignore the question.......... "Where did you get
    your information?"
    Your timing speed by photographing a stopwatch is hardly the same as
    electronic timing under lab conditions!
    And what exaclty does "dim f2.8" mean???? It either is or is not f2.8,
    regardless of what happens to the transmitted light once it's passed through
    the lens!

    Bill

    "George Preddy" <> wrote in message
    news:bu8o6v$k6g$...
    >
    > "Bill" <> wrote in message
    > news:SvQNb.4591$iI2.4554@lakeread03...
    > > What are you talking about and where did you get your information? The
    > > camera takes 5 frames per second in continuous mode, unless you happen

    to
    > > be using a slow memory card,

    >
    > The write doesn't happen until you commit to the pics, so the card used
    > makes no difference whatsoever.
    >
    > The camera takes 1 pic every 0.26 seconds at 1/10,000 sec shutter speed in
    > manual mode. That is the best it can do under any condition and at all
    > resolutions. Time it by taking pics of a digtial stop watch, then feel

    free
    > to write back noting that you got scammed.
    >
    > > or if the shutter speed would be long enough to
    > > add time, not ususally the case when you're shooting action shots. Also,

    > the
    > > lens is f2.8. Period!

    >
    > It's a very dim f2.8. f2.8 is only a geometric ratio, all lenses have
    > differing brightnesses at the same f-stop, prosumer zooms are notoriously
    > dim. Fuji uses ISO 160 minimum hoping prosumers aren't savvy enough to
    > figure out the connection between min ISO and poor lens performance. If
    > they used ISO 100, they'd have to amplify to the signal more and they'd

    get
    > killed on noise.
    >
    > > "George Preddy" <> wrote in message
    > > news:bu83fj$927$...
    > > >
    > > > "Bill" <> wrote in message
    > > > news:xjANb.4487$iI2.197@lakeread03...
    > > > > I do a lot of macro shots, and the S7000 has the better macro. And

    > since
    > > > you
    > > > > can use the EVF to compose them, there's no worry about parallax as

    > > there
    > > > is
    > > > > with an optical viewfinder. You could use the LCD to compose macros

    > with
    > > > the
    > > > > Oly, but it's not easy in bright light. Also, the S7000 has the

    better
    > > > movie
    > > > > mode, if that is of interest to you. The "final 5" continuous mode

    is
    > > very
    > > > > useful for nature or action shots. I believe it is unique to Fuji

    > > cameras.
    > > > > Good luck with whatever you buy....and enjoy taking photos!
    > > >
    > > > I'd get a C5050 if you want to save ~$250 bucks over a 10.3MP pro DSLR

    > > body
    > > > with a 2 lens kit. I was never happy with Fuji SuperCCD's image

    > quality.
    > > >
    > > > Fuji's "5fps" is a lie, it is only 3.8fps. The 5050 does 3+ fps for 4
    > > > frames at higher resolution.
    > > >
    > > > Fuji's ISO 160 minimum is because Fuji's glass is a half stop darker

    > than
    > > > competitors at the same aperture, amplifying the image to an ISO 100
    > > > standard would kill them on noise. The Oly's lens is much brighter.
    > > >
    > > > The filter issue is only a big deal because the tube makes the Fuji
    > > > signicantly bulkier.
    > > >
    > > > Fuji's movie mode is a lot better, and the only good reason to

    consider
    > a
    > > > SuperCCD camera.
    > > >
    > > > Neither are going to blow you away on image quality, but the Oly takes
    > > > better stills.
    > > >
    > > >

    > >
    > >

    >
    >
    Bill, Jan 16, 2004
    #8
  9. peter

    Crownfield Guest

    Bill wrote:
    >
    > Again I notice you deftly ignore the question..
    > And what exaclty does "dim f2.8" mean???? It either is or is not f2.8


    its sort of like
    3k pixels horizontal * 2 k pixels vertical * 24 bits colors =
    megapixelz.

    math is not georgies strong point.
    actually, neither is physics.
    nor is logic.

    he has lots of not strong points.
    Crownfield, Jan 16, 2004
    #9
  10. peter

    Bill Guest

    I think you've hit on the problem! That's funny!
    He also apparently doesn't like Canon, Fuji, Olympus or Nikon cameras. I
    wonder if he even owns a camera!

    Bill

    "Crownfield" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Bill wrote:
    > >
    > > Again I notice you deftly ignore the question..
    > > And what exaclty does "dim f2.8" mean???? It either is or is not f2.8

    >
    > its sort of like
    > 3k pixels horizontal * 2 k pixels vertical * 24 bits colors =
    > megapixelz.
    >
    > math is not georgies strong point.
    > actually, neither is physics.
    > nor is logic.
    >
    > he has lots of not strong points.
    Bill, Jan 16, 2004
    #10
  11. "Bill" <> wrote in message
    news:dmVNb.5003$iI2.884@lakeread03...
    > Again I notice you deftly ignore the question.......... "Where did you

    get
    > your information?"
    > Your timing speed by photographing a stopwatch is hardly the same as
    > electronic timing under lab conditions!


    You will get the exact same result when you test yours, and figure out that
    you too have been scammed by Fuji. Again. Fuji's "5 fps" is precisely 3.8
    fps. Same for their S2 Pro, Fuji lies, it doesn't shoot "3 fps" it shoots
    less than 2 fps.

    Here is how they justify lying like crazy to sell more cameras to the masses
    who usually don't check their numbers...

    Shot 1 ... 0.00 secs
    Shot 2 ... 0.26 secs
    Shot 3 ... 0.52 secs
    Shot 4 ... 0.78 secs
    Shot 5 ... 1.04 secs

    Looks like its almost 5 frames in 1 sec, but that isn't 5 "fps" which is a
    rate, the rate is only 3.8 fps. The S2 Pro does the same, the 3rd frame
    happens just after the first second ticks by, making it closer to 1.7 fps,
    not 3 fps as Fuji claims. At least the S5000 can't take any more frames
    than 5, so they could conceivably claim pure stupidity in a court of law,
    but the S2 Pro keeps shooting beyond 3 frames, so it is clearly an
    intentional scam.

    Fuji is best known for their double interpolation scam, to which they've
    pretty much fessed up about, now that they are becoming known for
    over-inflating MPs and thus having generally very low quality per recorded
    MP, even over and above the "normal" 4X Bayer inflation due to listing all
    Bayer manufacturers only listing interpolated resolutions instead of
    optical. Though they've manged to successfully squeak by the 3.1MP F700 as
    "6.2MP."

    But Fuji has several intentional scams going in parallel, to cloud the
    issues as much as possible and fool the maximum number of people. Two Fuji
    scams were listed above, another is discussed below...

    > And what exaclty does "dim f2.8" mean???? It either is or is not f2.8,
    > regardless of what happens to the transmitted light once it's passed

    through
    > the lens!


    Incorrect. f-stop is a simple geometric ratio, it doesn't take glass
    transmissivity into account. You'll easily see as much as a full stop
    brightness difference using a pricey prime versus a cheap zoom at the same
    measured f-stop on a D/SLR body - and both of those lenses will dwarf a
    prosumer lens in overall quality. Fuji's prosumer f2.8 is very dim, and
    since it is fixed optics they can play with sensor amplification/gains/ISOs
    to hide problems. ISO 160 minimum is an indicator of dim, poor quality
    optics, they can't gain-up to ISO 100 levels and compete on noise.

    Essentially, the lens is a half stop slow, it yields a typical lens's f3.5
    brightness level when opened up to f2.8. That doesn't even consider some
    other really poor qualities of the lens, but what do you expect when the
    entire camera w/lens costs less than minimum quality D/SLR glass with far
    less reach?

    > Bill
    >
    > "George Preddy" <> wrote in message
    > news:bu8o6v$k6g$...
    > >
    > > "Bill" <> wrote in message
    > > news:SvQNb.4591$iI2.4554@lakeread03...
    > > > What are you talking about and where did you get your information? The
    > > > camera takes 5 frames per second in continuous mode, unless you

    happen
    > to
    > > > be using a slow memory card,

    > >
    > > The write doesn't happen until you commit to the pics, so the card used
    > > makes no difference whatsoever.
    > >
    > > The camera takes 1 pic every 0.26 seconds at 1/10,000 sec shutter speed

    in
    > > manual mode. That is the best it can do under any condition and at all
    > > resolutions. Time it by taking pics of a digtial stop watch, then feel

    > free
    > > to write back noting that you got scammed.
    > >
    > > > or if the shutter speed would be long enough to
    > > > add time, not ususally the case when you're shooting action shots.

    Also,
    > > the
    > > > lens is f2.8. Period!

    > >
    > > It's a very dim f2.8. f2.8 is only a geometric ratio, all lenses have
    > > differing brightnesses at the same f-stop, prosumer zooms are

    notoriously
    > > dim. Fuji uses ISO 160 minimum hoping prosumers aren't savvy enough

    to
    > > figure out the connection between min ISO and poor lens performance. If
    > > they used ISO 100, they'd have to amplify to the signal more and they'd

    > get
    > > killed on noise.
    > >
    > > > "George Preddy" <> wrote in message
    > > > news:bu83fj$927$...
    > > > >
    > > > > "Bill" <> wrote in message
    > > > > news:xjANb.4487$iI2.197@lakeread03...
    > > > > > I do a lot of macro shots, and the S7000 has the better macro. And

    > > since
    > > > > you
    > > > > > can use the EVF to compose them, there's no worry about parallax

    as
    > > > there
    > > > > is
    > > > > > with an optical viewfinder. You could use the LCD to compose

    macros
    > > with
    > > > > the
    > > > > > Oly, but it's not easy in bright light. Also, the S7000 has the

    > better
    > > > > movie
    > > > > > mode, if that is of interest to you. The "final 5" continuous mode

    > is
    > > > very
    > > > > > useful for nature or action shots. I believe it is unique to Fuji
    > > > cameras.
    > > > > > Good luck with whatever you buy....and enjoy taking photos!
    > > > >
    > > > > I'd get a C5050 if you want to save ~$250 bucks over a 10.3MP pro

    DSLR
    > > > body
    > > > > with a 2 lens kit. I was never happy with Fuji SuperCCD's image

    > > quality.
    > > > >
    > > > > Fuji's "5fps" is a lie, it is only 3.8fps. The 5050 does 3+ fps for

    4
    > > > > frames at higher resolution.
    > > > >
    > > > > Fuji's ISO 160 minimum is because Fuji's glass is a half stop darker

    > > than
    > > > > competitors at the same aperture, amplifying the image to an ISO 100
    > > > > standard would kill them on noise. The Oly's lens is much brighter.
    > > > >
    > > > > The filter issue is only a big deal because the tube makes the Fuji
    > > > > signicantly bulkier.
    > > > >
    > > > > Fuji's movie mode is a lot better, and the only good reason to

    > consider
    > > a
    > > > > SuperCCD camera.
    > > > >
    > > > > Neither are going to blow you away on image quality, but the Oly

    takes
    > > > > better stills.
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > >

    > >
    > >

    >
    >
    George Preddy, Jan 17, 2004
    #11
  12. "Crownfield" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Bill wrote:
    > >
    > > Again I notice you deftly ignore the question..
    > > And what exaclty does "dim f2.8" mean???? It either is or is not f2.8

    >
    > its sort of like
    > 3k pixels horizontal * 2 k pixels vertical * 24 bits colors =
    > megapixelz.
    >
    > math is not georgies strong point.
    > actually, neither is physics.
    > nor is logic.
    >
    > he has lots of not strong points.


    If you are too cannot comprehend that glass is not 100% trnasmissive, and
    that zooms use lots of elements, and that cheap prosumer glass isn't very
    high quality, and that coatings and finish and materials changes
    transmissivity, than you have no hope of comprehending that all lenses vary
    in brightness at a given rated f-stop.

    Here is a question for you kids to ponder, if f-stop is all that determines
    brightness, why do neutral density filters work? Ouuuuuuuuch, your brain
    hurts.
    George Preddy, Jan 17, 2004
    #12
  13. peter

    Bill Guest

    Neutral density filters intentionally reduce the amount of light they
    transmit (hence the term "density") but don't change the color of the light
    (hence, the term "neutral"). It's what theyre designed to do!

    And in your previous post, who was talking about the S5000? It was the
    S7000, and it (as well as the S602) CAN shoot beyond 5 frames (called "final
    5 mode"), where you can keep shooting up to a maximum of 25 shots but only
    the last 5 will be stored. There is another mode that shoots only up to 5
    frames maximum as well.

    And I would hardly call Fuji lenses poor quality.

    By the way, you still have not documented your statements about any of this.
    So far this "conclusive data" exists only in your mind!

    Bill



    "George Preddy" <> wrote in message
    news:buaipn$3kg$...
    >
    > "Crownfield" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > Bill wrote:
    > > >
    > > > Again I notice you deftly ignore the question..
    > > > And what exaclty does "dim f2.8" mean???? It either is or is not f2.8

    > >
    > > its sort of like
    > > 3k pixels horizontal * 2 k pixels vertical * 24 bits colors =
    > > megapixelz.
    > >
    > > math is not georgies strong point.
    > > actually, neither is physics.
    > > nor is logic.
    > >
    > > he has lots of not strong points.

    >
    > If you are too cannot comprehend that glass is not 100% trnasmissive, and
    > that zooms use lots of elements, and that cheap prosumer glass isn't very
    > high quality, and that coatings and finish and materials changes
    > transmissivity, than you have no hope of comprehending that all lenses

    vary
    > in brightness at a given rated f-stop.
    >
    > Here is a question for you kids to ponder, if f-stop is all that

    determines
    > brightness, why do neutral density filters work? Ouuuuuuuuch, your brain
    > hurts.
    >
    >
    Bill, Jan 17, 2004
    #13
  14. "Bill" <> wrote in message
    news:L19Ob.5279$iI2.5137@lakeread03...
    > Neutral density filters intentionally reduce the amount of light they
    > transmit (hence the term "density") but don't change the color of the

    light
    > (hence, the term "neutral"). It's what theyre designed to do!


    Imagine that, different amounts of light at the same f-stop.

    > And in your previous post, who was talking about the S5000? It was the
    > S7000, and it (as well as the S602) CAN shoot beyond 5 frames (called

    "final
    > 5 mode"), where you can keep shooting up to a maximum of 25 shots but only
    > the last 5 will be stored.


    Same thing, 5 shots at 3.8 fps.

    > There is another mode that shoots only up to 5
    > frames maximum as well.
    >
    > And I would hardly call Fuji lenses poor quality.
    >
    > By the way, you still have not documented your statements about any of

    this.
    > So far this "conclusive data" exists only in your mind!


    And in reality, not that reality matters to a Fuji. Test it, you'll see
    that I'm spot on, as always. Obviously, the documentation is intentionally
    inaccurate. You'll even find "0.20 sec interval" printed in the manual -
    more Fuji lies, the camera can't shoot faster than a 0.26 sec interval (3.8
    fps) under any condition.

    > Bill
    >
    >
    >
    > "George Preddy" <> wrote in message
    > news:buaipn$3kg$...
    > >
    > > "Crownfield" <> wrote in message
    > > news:...
    > > > Bill wrote:
    > > > >
    > > > > Again I notice you deftly ignore the question..
    > > > > And what exaclty does "dim f2.8" mean???? It either is or is not

    f2.8
    > > >
    > > > its sort of like
    > > > 3k pixels horizontal * 2 k pixels vertical * 24 bits colors =
    > > > megapixelz.
    > > >
    > > > math is not georgies strong point.
    > > > actually, neither is physics.
    > > > nor is logic.
    > > >
    > > > he has lots of not strong points.

    > >
    > > If you are too cannot comprehend that glass is not 100% trnasmissive,

    and
    > > that zooms use lots of elements, and that cheap prosumer glass isn't

    very
    > > high quality, and that coatings and finish and materials changes
    > > transmissivity, than you have no hope of comprehending that all lenses

    > vary
    > > in brightness at a given rated f-stop.
    > >
    > > Here is a question for you kids to ponder, if f-stop is all that

    > determines
    > > brightness, why do neutral density filters work? Ouuuuuuuuch, your

    brain
    > > hurts.
    > >
    > >

    >
    >
    George Preddy, Jan 17, 2004
    #14
  15. peter

    Bill Guest

    No it is NOT the same once you mount a neutral density filter. It has the
    same effect as increasing the f stop number (such as if you went from f4 to
    f 5.6, etc.) by reducing the amount of light. But it won't change the DOF,
    and that's one reason to use a ND filter.

    "You'll even find "0.20 sec interval" printed in the manual -
    more Fuji lies, the camera can't shoot faster than a 0.26 sec interval (3.8
    fps) under any condition."

    Once again, where are you getting this information? So far all I've read
    here are your statements, with no references to REAL tests to back up what
    you say.

    I've seen a few of your posts, and you seem to be against just about all
    cameras and manufacturers. If digital photography is nothing more to you
    than badmouthing the equipment, why don't you find other interests?

    Bill
    "George Preddy" <> wrote in message
    news:bub6rj$buh$...
    >
    > "Bill" <> wrote in message
    > news:L19Ob.5279$iI2.5137@lakeread03...
    > > Neutral density filters intentionally reduce the amount of light they
    > > transmit (hence the term "density") but don't change the color of the

    > light
    > > (hence, the term "neutral"). It's what theyre designed to do!

    >
    > Imagine that, different amounts of light at the same f-stop.
    >
    > > And in your previous post, who was talking about the S5000? It was the
    > > S7000, and it (as well as the S602) CAN shoot beyond 5 frames (called

    > "final
    > > 5 mode"), where you can keep shooting up to a maximum of 25 shots but

    only
    > > the last 5 will be stored.

    >
    > Same thing, 5 shots at 3.8 fps.
    >
    > > There is another mode that shoots only up to 5
    > > frames maximum as well.
    > >
    > > And I would hardly call Fuji lenses poor quality.
    > >
    > > By the way, you still have not documented your statements about any of

    > this.
    > > So far this "conclusive data" exists only in your mind!

    >
    > And in reality, not that reality matters to a Fuji. Test it, you'll see
    > that I'm spot on, as always. Obviously, the documentation is

    intentionally
    > inaccurate. You'll even find "0.20 sec interval" printed in the manual -
    > more Fuji lies, the camera can't shoot faster than a 0.26 sec interval

    (3.8
    > fps) under any condition.
    >
    > > Bill
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > "George Preddy" <> wrote in message
    > > news:buaipn$3kg$...
    > > >
    > > > "Crownfield" <> wrote in message
    > > > news:...
    > > > > Bill wrote:
    > > > > >
    > > > > > Again I notice you deftly ignore the question..
    > > > > > And what exaclty does "dim f2.8" mean???? It either is or is not

    > f2.8
    > > > >
    > > > > its sort of like
    > > > > 3k pixels horizontal * 2 k pixels vertical * 24 bits colors =
    > > > > megapixelz.
    > > > >
    > > > > math is not georgies strong point.
    > > > > actually, neither is physics.
    > > > > nor is logic.
    > > > >
    > > > > he has lots of not strong points.
    > > >
    > > > If you are too cannot comprehend that glass is not 100% trnasmissive,

    > and
    > > > that zooms use lots of elements, and that cheap prosumer glass isn't

    > very
    > > > high quality, and that coatings and finish and materials changes
    > > > transmissivity, than you have no hope of comprehending that all lenses

    > > vary
    > > > in brightness at a given rated f-stop.
    > > >
    > > > Here is a question for you kids to ponder, if f-stop is all that

    > > determines
    > > > brightness, why do neutral density filters work? Ouuuuuuuuch, your

    > brain
    > > > hurts.
    > > >
    > > >

    > >
    > >

    >
    >
    Bill, Jan 17, 2004
    #15
  16. "Bill" <> wrote in message
    news:XMaOb.5513$iI2.3636@lakeread03...
    > No it is NOT the same once you mount a neutral density filter. It has the
    > same effect as increasing the f stop number (such as if you went from f4

    to
    > f 5.6, etc.) by reducing the amount of light. But it won't change the DOF,
    > and that's one reason to use a ND filter.


    Set f-stop is the aperture to which the diaphram closes, it has no idea what
    is tacked onto the glass unless you manually adjust. Sheeze, what a waste
    of my time.

    > "You'll even find "0.20 sec interval" printed in the manual -
    > more Fuji lies, the camera can't shoot faster than a 0.26 sec interval

    (3.8
    > fps) under any condition."
    >
    > Once again, where are you getting this information? So far all I've read
    > here are your statements, with no references to REAL tests to back up what
    > you say.


    The manual. The camera. Why are you making stuff up?

    > I've seen a few of your posts, and you seem to be against just about all
    > cameras and manufacturers. If digital photography is nothing more to you
    > than badmouthing the equipment, why don't you find other interests?
    >
    > Bill
    > "George Preddy" <> wrote in message
    > news:bub6rj$buh$...
    > >
    > > "Bill" <> wrote in message
    > > news:L19Ob.5279$iI2.5137@lakeread03...
    > > > Neutral density filters intentionally reduce the amount of light they
    > > > transmit (hence the term "density") but don't change the color of the

    > > light
    > > > (hence, the term "neutral"). It's what theyre designed to do!

    > >
    > > Imagine that, different amounts of light at the same f-stop.
    > >
    > > > And in your previous post, who was talking about the S5000? It was the
    > > > S7000, and it (as well as the S602) CAN shoot beyond 5 frames (called

    > > "final
    > > > 5 mode"), where you can keep shooting up to a maximum of 25 shots but

    > only
    > > > the last 5 will be stored.

    > >
    > > Same thing, 5 shots at 3.8 fps.
    > >
    > > > There is another mode that shoots only up to 5
    > > > frames maximum as well.
    > > >
    > > > And I would hardly call Fuji lenses poor quality.
    > > >
    > > > By the way, you still have not documented your statements about any of

    > > this.
    > > > So far this "conclusive data" exists only in your mind!

    > >
    > > And in reality, not that reality matters to a Fuji. Test it, you'll see
    > > that I'm spot on, as always. Obviously, the documentation is

    > intentionally
    > > inaccurate. You'll even find "0.20 sec interval" printed in the

    manual -
    > > more Fuji lies, the camera can't shoot faster than a 0.26 sec interval

    > (3.8
    > > fps) under any condition.
    > >
    > > > Bill
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > "George Preddy" <> wrote in message
    > > > news:buaipn$3kg$...
    > > > >
    > > > > "Crownfield" <> wrote in message
    > > > > news:...
    > > > > > Bill wrote:
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > Again I notice you deftly ignore the question..
    > > > > > > And what exaclty does "dim f2.8" mean???? It either is or is

    not
    > > f2.8
    > > > > >
    > > > > > its sort of like
    > > > > > 3k pixels horizontal * 2 k pixels vertical * 24 bits colors =
    > > > > > megapixelz.
    > > > > >
    > > > > > math is not georgies strong point.
    > > > > > actually, neither is physics.
    > > > > > nor is logic.
    > > > > >
    > > > > > he has lots of not strong points.
    > > > >
    > > > > If you are too cannot comprehend that glass is not 100%

    trnasmissive,
    > > and
    > > > > that zooms use lots of elements, and that cheap prosumer glass isn't

    > > very
    > > > > high quality, and that coatings and finish and materials changes
    > > > > transmissivity, than you have no hope of comprehending that all

    lenses
    > > > vary
    > > > > in brightness at a given rated f-stop.
    > > > >
    > > > > Here is a question for you kids to ponder, if f-stop is all that
    > > > determines
    > > > > brightness, why do neutral density filters work? Ouuuuuuuuch, your

    > > brain
    > > > > hurts.
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > >

    > >
    > >

    >
    >
    George Preddy, Jan 17, 2004
    #16
  17. peter

    Bill Guest

    You are saying the same thing I said. The f-stop of the lens is not actually
    changed by adding a ND filter. The filter only reduces the actual amount of
    light entering.

    As for the continuous speed, I am well aware that YOU quoted the manual re:
    the 5 frame per second speed. But YOU claim that it's a lie. And so I ask,
    yet again, provide a valid reference for your claims if you have one.
    Certainly your "test" cannot be compared to tests run in a lab with proper
    equipment!

    Also, I have no idea why you asked why I am "making stuff up"...... to what
    are you referring?

    Unless you have some refernce(s) for your claims, they remain as opinions
    only. As such, they are of no help. If you'd like to contiribute meaningful
    information, provide valid references. Otherwise, it's a waste of everyone
    else's time!

    Bill

    "George Preddy" <> wrote in message
    news:bubdai$f4t$...
    >
    > "Bill" <> wrote in message
    > news:XMaOb.5513$iI2.3636@lakeread03...
    > > No it is NOT the same once you mount a neutral density filter. It has

    the
    > > same effect as increasing the f stop number (such as if you went from f4

    > to
    > > f 5.6, etc.) by reducing the amount of light. But it won't change the

    DOF,
    > > and that's one reason to use a ND filter.

    >
    > Set f-stop is the aperture to which the diaphram closes, it has no idea

    what
    > is tacked onto the glass unless you manually adjust. Sheeze, what a waste
    > of my time.
    >
    > > "You'll even find "0.20 sec interval" printed in the manual -
    > > more Fuji lies, the camera can't shoot faster than a 0.26 sec interval

    > (3.8
    > > fps) under any condition."
    > >
    > > Once again, where are you getting this information? So far all I've read
    > > here are your statements, with no references to REAL tests to back up

    what
    > > you say.

    >
    > The manual. The camera. Why are you making stuff up?
    >
    > > I've seen a few of your posts, and you seem to be against just about all
    > > cameras and manufacturers. If digital photography is nothing more to you
    > > than badmouthing the equipment, why don't you find other interests?
    > >
    > > Bill
    > > "George Preddy" <> wrote in message
    > > news:bub6rj$buh$...
    > > >
    > > > "Bill" <> wrote in message
    > > > news:L19Ob.5279$iI2.5137@lakeread03...
    > > > > Neutral density filters intentionally reduce the amount of light

    they
    > > > > transmit (hence the term "density") but don't change the color of

    the
    > > > light
    > > > > (hence, the term "neutral"). It's what theyre designed to do!
    > > >
    > > > Imagine that, different amounts of light at the same f-stop.
    > > >
    > > > > And in your previous post, who was talking about the S5000? It was

    the
    > > > > S7000, and it (as well as the S602) CAN shoot beyond 5 frames

    (called
    > > > "final
    > > > > 5 mode"), where you can keep shooting up to a maximum of 25 shots

    but
    > > only
    > > > > the last 5 will be stored.
    > > >
    > > > Same thing, 5 shots at 3.8 fps.
    > > >
    > > > > There is another mode that shoots only up to 5
    > > > > frames maximum as well.
    > > > >
    > > > > And I would hardly call Fuji lenses poor quality.
    > > > >
    > > > > By the way, you still have not documented your statements about any

    of
    > > > this.
    > > > > So far this "conclusive data" exists only in your mind!
    > > >
    > > > And in reality, not that reality matters to a Fuji. Test it, you'll

    see
    > > > that I'm spot on, as always. Obviously, the documentation is

    > > intentionally
    > > > inaccurate. You'll even find "0.20 sec interval" printed in the

    > manual -
    > > > more Fuji lies, the camera can't shoot faster than a 0.26 sec interval

    > > (3.8
    > > > fps) under any condition.
    > > >
    > > > > Bill
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > "George Preddy" <> wrote in message
    > > > > news:buaipn$3kg$...
    > > > > >
    > > > > > "Crownfield" <> wrote in message
    > > > > > news:...
    > > > > > > Bill wrote:
    > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > > Again I notice you deftly ignore the question..
    > > > > > > > And what exaclty does "dim f2.8" mean???? It either is or is

    > not
    > > > f2.8
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > its sort of like
    > > > > > > 3k pixels horizontal * 2 k pixels vertical * 24 bits colors =
    > > > > > > megapixelz.
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > math is not georgies strong point.
    > > > > > > actually, neither is physics.
    > > > > > > nor is logic.
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > he has lots of not strong points.
    > > > > >
    > > > > > If you are too cannot comprehend that glass is not 100%

    > trnasmissive,
    > > > and
    > > > > > that zooms use lots of elements, and that cheap prosumer glass

    isn't
    > > > very
    > > > > > high quality, and that coatings and finish and materials changes
    > > > > > transmissivity, than you have no hope of comprehending that all

    > lenses
    > > > > vary
    > > > > > in brightness at a given rated f-stop.
    > > > > >
    > > > > > Here is a question for you kids to ponder, if f-stop is all that
    > > > > determines
    > > > > > brightness, why do neutral density filters work? Ouuuuuuuuch,

    your
    > > > brain
    > > > > > hurts.
    > > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > >

    > >
    > >

    >
    >
    Bill, Jan 17, 2004
    #17
  18. "Bill" <> wrote in message
    news:2kcOb.5587$iI2.1404@lakeread03...
    > You are saying the same thing I said. The f-stop of the lens is not

    actually
    > changed by adding a ND filter. The filter only reduces the actual amount

    of
    > light entering.


    So much for your notion that light is always constant at the same aperture.

    > As for the continuous speed, I am well aware that YOU quoted the manual

    re:
    > the 5 frame per second speed. But YOU claim that it's a lie.


    It is, I've tested it extensively. Have you?

    > And so I ask,
    > yet again, provide a valid reference for your claims if you have one.
    > Certainly your "test" cannot be compared to tests run in a lab with proper
    > equipment!


    Sure it can, simple as pie. Shoot a full 25 frames in last five mode, takes
    6.25 secs. Shoot a digital stop watch, 0.26 interval every time under all
    conditions, many camera samples confirm it.

    > Also, I have no idea why you asked why I am "making stuff up"...... to

    what
    > are you referring?


    You are defending Fujis lies out of total cluelessness. Test, don't talk.

    I'm exactly correct. This is not a matter of opinion, I am right and you
    are wrong. End of story.

    > Unless you have some refernce(s) for your claims, they remain as opinions
    > only. As such, they are of no help. If you'd like to contiribute

    meaningful
    > information, provide valid references. Otherwise, it's a waste of everyone
    > else's time!
    >
    > Bill
    >
    > "George Preddy" <> wrote in message
    > news:bubdai$f4t$...
    > >
    > > "Bill" <> wrote in message
    > > news:XMaOb.5513$iI2.3636@lakeread03...
    > > > No it is NOT the same once you mount a neutral density filter. It has

    > the
    > > > same effect as increasing the f stop number (such as if you went from

    f4
    > > to
    > > > f 5.6, etc.) by reducing the amount of light. But it won't change the

    > DOF,
    > > > and that's one reason to use a ND filter.

    > >
    > > Set f-stop is the aperture to which the diaphram closes, it has no idea

    > what
    > > is tacked onto the glass unless you manually adjust. Sheeze, what a

    waste
    > > of my time.
    > >
    > > > "You'll even find "0.20 sec interval" printed in the manual -
    > > > more Fuji lies, the camera can't shoot faster than a 0.26 sec interval

    > > (3.8
    > > > fps) under any condition."
    > > >
    > > > Once again, where are you getting this information? So far all I've

    read
    > > > here are your statements, with no references to REAL tests to back up

    > what
    > > > you say.

    > >
    > > The manual. The camera. Why are you making stuff up?
    > >
    > > > I've seen a few of your posts, and you seem to be against just about

    all
    > > > cameras and manufacturers. If digital photography is nothing more to

    you
    > > > than badmouthing the equipment, why don't you find other interests?
    > > >
    > > > Bill
    > > > "George Preddy" <> wrote in message
    > > > news:bub6rj$buh$...
    > > > >
    > > > > "Bill" <> wrote in message
    > > > > news:L19Ob.5279$iI2.5137@lakeread03...
    > > > > > Neutral density filters intentionally reduce the amount of light

    > they
    > > > > > transmit (hence the term "density") but don't change the color of

    > the
    > > > > light
    > > > > > (hence, the term "neutral"). It's what theyre designed to do!
    > > > >
    > > > > Imagine that, different amounts of light at the same f-stop.
    > > > >
    > > > > > And in your previous post, who was talking about the S5000? It was

    > the
    > > > > > S7000, and it (as well as the S602) CAN shoot beyond 5 frames

    > (called
    > > > > "final
    > > > > > 5 mode"), where you can keep shooting up to a maximum of 25 shots

    > but
    > > > only
    > > > > > the last 5 will be stored.
    > > > >
    > > > > Same thing, 5 shots at 3.8 fps.
    > > > >
    > > > > > There is another mode that shoots only up to 5
    > > > > > frames maximum as well.
    > > > > >
    > > > > > And I would hardly call Fuji lenses poor quality.
    > > > > >
    > > > > > By the way, you still have not documented your statements about

    any
    > of
    > > > > this.
    > > > > > So far this "conclusive data" exists only in your mind!
    > > > >
    > > > > And in reality, not that reality matters to a Fuji. Test it, you'll

    > see
    > > > > that I'm spot on, as always. Obviously, the documentation is
    > > > intentionally
    > > > > inaccurate. You'll even find "0.20 sec interval" printed in the

    > > manual -
    > > > > more Fuji lies, the camera can't shoot faster than a 0.26 sec

    interval
    > > > (3.8
    > > > > fps) under any condition.
    > > > >
    > > > > > Bill
    > > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > > > "George Preddy" <> wrote in message
    > > > > > news:buaipn$3kg$...
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > "Crownfield" <> wrote in message
    > > > > > > news:...
    > > > > > > > Bill wrote:
    > > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > > > Again I notice you deftly ignore the question..
    > > > > > > > > And what exaclty does "dim f2.8" mean???? It either is or

    is
    > > not
    > > > > f2.8
    > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > > its sort of like
    > > > > > > > 3k pixels horizontal * 2 k pixels vertical * 24 bits colors =
    > > > > > > > megapixelz.
    > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > > math is not georgies strong point.
    > > > > > > > actually, neither is physics.
    > > > > > > > nor is logic.
    > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > > he has lots of not strong points.
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > If you are too cannot comprehend that glass is not 100%

    > > trnasmissive,
    > > > > and
    > > > > > > that zooms use lots of elements, and that cheap prosumer glass

    > isn't
    > > > > very
    > > > > > > high quality, and that coatings and finish and materials changes
    > > > > > > transmissivity, than you have no hope of comprehending that all

    > > lenses
    > > > > > vary
    > > > > > > in brightness at a given rated f-stop.
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > Here is a question for you kids to ponder, if f-stop is all that
    > > > > > determines
    > > > > > > brightness, why do neutral density filters work? Ouuuuuuuuch,

    > your
    > > > > brain
    > > > > > > hurts.
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > >

    > >
    > >

    >
    >
    George Preddy, Jan 17, 2004
    #18
  19. peter

    Bill Guest

    You are impossible to deal with! You twist words, make totally erroneous and
    ridiculous conclusions about what I say, and you honestly expect me (or
    anyone else) to take your "stopwatch photo test" seriously?

    And, as usual, you have given NO VALID REFERENCE(S) for what you claim, only
    YOUR opinion and YOUR non-scientific test!

    This concludes our discussions! ***END OF STORY***


    "George Preddy" <> wrote in message
    news:bubj7i$ias$...
    >
    > "Bill" <> wrote in message
    > news:2kcOb.5587$iI2.1404@lakeread03...
    > > You are saying the same thing I said. The f-stop of the lens is not

    > actually
    > > changed by adding a ND filter. The filter only reduces the actual amount

    > of
    > > light entering.

    >
    > So much for your notion that light is always constant at the same

    aperture.
    >
    > > As for the continuous speed, I am well aware that YOU quoted the manual

    > re:
    > > the 5 frame per second speed. But YOU claim that it's a lie.

    >
    > It is, I've tested it extensively. Have you?
    >
    > > And so I ask,
    > > yet again, provide a valid reference for your claims if you have one.
    > > Certainly your "test" cannot be compared to tests run in a lab with

    proper
    > > equipment!

    >
    > Sure it can, simple as pie. Shoot a full 25 frames in last five mode,

    takes
    > 6.25 secs. Shoot a digital stop watch, 0.26 interval every time under all
    > conditions, many camera samples confirm it.
    >
    > > Also, I have no idea why you asked why I am "making stuff up"...... to

    > what
    > > are you referring?

    >
    > You are defending Fujis lies out of total cluelessness. Test, don't talk.
    >
    > I'm exactly correct. This is not a matter of opinion, I am right and you
    > are wrong. End of story.
    >
    > > Unless you have some refernce(s) for your claims, they remain as

    opinions
    > > only. As such, they are of no help. If you'd like to contiribute

    > meaningful
    > > information, provide valid references. Otherwise, it's a waste of

    everyone
    > > else's time!
    > >
    > > Bill
    > >
    > > "George Preddy" <> wrote in message
    > > news:bubdai$f4t$...
    > > >
    > > > "Bill" <> wrote in message
    > > > news:XMaOb.5513$iI2.3636@lakeread03...
    > > > > No it is NOT the same once you mount a neutral density filter. It

    has
    > > the
    > > > > same effect as increasing the f stop number (such as if you went

    from
    > f4
    > > > to
    > > > > f 5.6, etc.) by reducing the amount of light. But it won't change

    the
    > > DOF,
    > > > > and that's one reason to use a ND filter.
    > > >
    > > > Set f-stop is the aperture to which the diaphram closes, it has no

    idea
    > > what
    > > > is tacked onto the glass unless you manually adjust. Sheeze, what a

    > waste
    > > > of my time.
    > > >
    > > > > "You'll even find "0.20 sec interval" printed in the manual -
    > > > > more Fuji lies, the camera can't shoot faster than a 0.26 sec

    interval
    > > > (3.8
    > > > > fps) under any condition."
    > > > >
    > > > > Once again, where are you getting this information? So far all I've

    > read
    > > > > here are your statements, with no references to REAL tests to back

    up
    > > what
    > > > > you say.
    > > >
    > > > The manual. The camera. Why are you making stuff up?
    > > >
    > > > > I've seen a few of your posts, and you seem to be against just about

    > all
    > > > > cameras and manufacturers. If digital photography is nothing more to

    > you
    > > > > than badmouthing the equipment, why don't you find other interests?
    > > > >
    > > > > Bill
    > > > > "George Preddy" <> wrote in message
    > > > > news:bub6rj$buh$...
    > > > > >
    > > > > > "Bill" <> wrote in message
    > > > > > news:L19Ob.5279$iI2.5137@lakeread03...
    > > > > > > Neutral density filters intentionally reduce the amount of light

    > > they
    > > > > > > transmit (hence the term "density") but don't change the color

    of
    > > the
    > > > > > light
    > > > > > > (hence, the term "neutral"). It's what theyre designed to do!
    > > > > >
    > > > > > Imagine that, different amounts of light at the same f-stop.
    > > > > >
    > > > > > > And in your previous post, who was talking about the S5000? It

    was
    > > the
    > > > > > > S7000, and it (as well as the S602) CAN shoot beyond 5 frames

    > > (called
    > > > > > "final
    > > > > > > 5 mode"), where you can keep shooting up to a maximum of 25

    shots
    > > but
    > > > > only
    > > > > > > the last 5 will be stored.
    > > > > >
    > > > > > Same thing, 5 shots at 3.8 fps.
    > > > > >
    > > > > > > There is another mode that shoots only up to 5
    > > > > > > frames maximum as well.
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > And I would hardly call Fuji lenses poor quality.
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > By the way, you still have not documented your statements about

    > any
    > > of
    > > > > > this.
    > > > > > > So far this "conclusive data" exists only in your mind!
    > > > > >
    > > > > > And in reality, not that reality matters to a Fuji. Test it,

    you'll
    > > see
    > > > > > that I'm spot on, as always. Obviously, the documentation is
    > > > > intentionally
    > > > > > inaccurate. You'll even find "0.20 sec interval" printed in the
    > > > manual -
    > > > > > more Fuji lies, the camera can't shoot faster than a 0.26 sec

    > interval
    > > > > (3.8
    > > > > > fps) under any condition.
    > > > > >
    > > > > > > Bill
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > "George Preddy" <> wrote in message
    > > > > > > news:buaipn$3kg$...
    > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > > "Crownfield" <> wrote in message
    > > > > > > > news:...
    > > > > > > > > Bill wrote:
    > > > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > > > > Again I notice you deftly ignore the question..
    > > > > > > > > > And what exaclty does "dim f2.8" mean???? It either is or

    > is
    > > > not
    > > > > > f2.8
    > > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > > > its sort of like
    > > > > > > > > 3k pixels horizontal * 2 k pixels vertical * 24 bits colors

    =
    > > > > > > > > megapixelz.
    > > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > > > math is not georgies strong point.
    > > > > > > > > actually, neither is physics.
    > > > > > > > > nor is logic.
    > > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > > > he has lots of not strong points.
    > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > > If you are too cannot comprehend that glass is not 100%
    > > > trnasmissive,
    > > > > > and
    > > > > > > > that zooms use lots of elements, and that cheap prosumer glass

    > > isn't
    > > > > > very
    > > > > > > > high quality, and that coatings and finish and materials

    changes
    > > > > > > > transmissivity, than you have no hope of comprehending that

    all
    > > > lenses
    > > > > > > vary
    > > > > > > > in brightness at a given rated f-stop.
    > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > > Here is a question for you kids to ponder, if f-stop is all

    that
    > > > > > > determines
    > > > > > > > brightness, why do neutral density filters work? Ouuuuuuuuch,

    > > your
    > > > > > brain
    > > > > > > > hurts.
    > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > >
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > >

    > >
    > >

    >
    >
    Bill, Jan 17, 2004
    #19
  20. "Bill" <> wrote in message
    news:vuhOb.5627$iI2.211@lakeread03...
    > You are impossible to deal with! You twist words, make totally erroneous

    and
    > ridiculous conclusions about what I say, and you honestly expect me (or
    > anyone else) to take your "stopwatch photo test" seriously?


    Obviously, yes. Nothing else matters when discussing fps except, fps.

    > And, as usual, you have given NO VALID REFERENCE(S) for what you claim,

    only
    > YOUR opinion and YOUR non-scientific test!


    No, everyone's tests.

    > This concludes our discussions! ***END OF STORY***


    Now that you know Fuji lied to you, you obviously don't like it. Sorry to
    be the one to break the news. And Fuji's numbous blatant marketing lies are
    hardly limiited to intentionally bogus fps claims (which are discussed in
    every pro review ever written, and measured directly by anyone with half a
    clue, for years).

    > "George Preddy" <> wrote in message
    > news:bubj7i$ias$...
    > >
    > > "Bill" <> wrote in message
    > > news:2kcOb.5587$iI2.1404@lakeread03...
    > > > You are saying the same thing I said. The f-stop of the lens is not

    > > actually
    > > > changed by adding a ND filter. The filter only reduces the actual

    amount
    > > of
    > > > light entering.

    > >
    > > So much for your notion that light is always constant at the same

    > aperture.
    > >
    > > > As for the continuous speed, I am well aware that YOU quoted the

    manual
    > > re:
    > > > the 5 frame per second speed. But YOU claim that it's a lie.

    > >
    > > It is, I've tested it extensively. Have you?
    > >
    > > > And so I ask,
    > > > yet again, provide a valid reference for your claims if you have one.
    > > > Certainly your "test" cannot be compared to tests run in a lab with

    > proper
    > > > equipment!

    > >
    > > Sure it can, simple as pie. Shoot a full 25 frames in last five mode,

    > takes
    > > 6.25 secs. Shoot a digital stop watch, 0.26 interval every time under

    all
    > > conditions, many camera samples confirm it.
    > >
    > > > Also, I have no idea why you asked why I am "making stuff up"...... to

    > > what
    > > > are you referring?

    > >
    > > You are defending Fujis lies out of total cluelessness. Test, don't

    talk.
    > >
    > > I'm exactly correct. This is not a matter of opinion, I am right and

    you
    > > are wrong. End of story.
    > >
    > > > Unless you have some refernce(s) for your claims, they remain as

    > opinions
    > > > only. As such, they are of no help. If you'd like to contiribute

    > > meaningful
    > > > information, provide valid references. Otherwise, it's a waste of

    > everyone
    > > > else's time!
    > > >
    > > > Bill
    > > >
    > > > "George Preddy" <> wrote in message
    > > > news:bubdai$f4t$...
    > > > >
    > > > > "Bill" <> wrote in message
    > > > > news:XMaOb.5513$iI2.3636@lakeread03...
    > > > > > No it is NOT the same once you mount a neutral density filter. It

    > has
    > > > the
    > > > > > same effect as increasing the f stop number (such as if you went

    > from
    > > f4
    > > > > to
    > > > > > f 5.6, etc.) by reducing the amount of light. But it won't change

    > the
    > > > DOF,
    > > > > > and that's one reason to use a ND filter.
    > > > >
    > > > > Set f-stop is the aperture to which the diaphram closes, it has no

    > idea
    > > > what
    > > > > is tacked onto the glass unless you manually adjust. Sheeze, what a

    > > waste
    > > > > of my time.
    > > > >
    > > > > > "You'll even find "0.20 sec interval" printed in the manual -
    > > > > > more Fuji lies, the camera can't shoot faster than a 0.26 sec

    > interval
    > > > > (3.8
    > > > > > fps) under any condition."
    > > > > >
    > > > > > Once again, where are you getting this information? So far all

    I've
    > > read
    > > > > > here are your statements, with no references to REAL tests to back

    > up
    > > > what
    > > > > > you say.
    > > > >
    > > > > The manual. The camera. Why are you making stuff up?
    > > > >
    > > > > > I've seen a few of your posts, and you seem to be against just

    about
    > > all
    > > > > > cameras and manufacturers. If digital photography is nothing more

    to
    > > you
    > > > > > than badmouthing the equipment, why don't you find other

    interests?
    > > > > >
    > > > > > Bill
    > > > > > "George Preddy" <> wrote in message
    > > > > > news:bub6rj$buh$...
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > "Bill" <> wrote in message
    > > > > > > news:L19Ob.5279$iI2.5137@lakeread03...
    > > > > > > > Neutral density filters intentionally reduce the amount of

    light
    > > > they
    > > > > > > > transmit (hence the term "density") but don't change the color

    > of
    > > > the
    > > > > > > light
    > > > > > > > (hence, the term "neutral"). It's what theyre designed to do!
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > Imagine that, different amounts of light at the same f-stop.
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > > And in your previous post, who was talking about the S5000? It

    > was
    > > > the
    > > > > > > > S7000, and it (as well as the S602) CAN shoot beyond 5 frames
    > > > (called
    > > > > > > "final
    > > > > > > > 5 mode"), where you can keep shooting up to a maximum of 25

    > shots
    > > > but
    > > > > > only
    > > > > > > > the last 5 will be stored.
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > Same thing, 5 shots at 3.8 fps.
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > > There is another mode that shoots only up to 5
    > > > > > > > frames maximum as well.
    > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > > And I would hardly call Fuji lenses poor quality.
    > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > > By the way, you still have not documented your statements

    about
    > > any
    > > > of
    > > > > > > this.
    > > > > > > > So far this "conclusive data" exists only in your mind!
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > And in reality, not that reality matters to a Fuji. Test it,

    > you'll
    > > > see
    > > > > > > that I'm spot on, as always. Obviously, the documentation is
    > > > > > intentionally
    > > > > > > inaccurate. You'll even find "0.20 sec interval" printed in the
    > > > > manual -
    > > > > > > more Fuji lies, the camera can't shoot faster than a 0.26 sec

    > > interval
    > > > > > (3.8
    > > > > > > fps) under any condition.
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > > Bill
    > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > > "George Preddy" <> wrote in message
    > > > > > > > news:buaipn$3kg$...
    > > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > > > "Crownfield" <> wrote in message
    > > > > > > > > news:...
    > > > > > > > > > Bill wrote:
    > > > > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > > > > > Again I notice you deftly ignore the question..
    > > > > > > > > > > And what exaclty does "dim f2.8" mean???? It either is

    or
    > > is
    > > > > not
    > > > > > > f2.8
    > > > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > > > > its sort of like
    > > > > > > > > > 3k pixels horizontal * 2 k pixels vertical * 24 bits

    colors
    > =
    > > > > > > > > > megapixelz.
    > > > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > > > > math is not georgies strong point.
    > > > > > > > > > actually, neither is physics.
    > > > > > > > > > nor is logic.
    > > > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > > > > he has lots of not strong points.
    > > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > > > If you are too cannot comprehend that glass is not 100%
    > > > > trnasmissive,
    > > > > > > and
    > > > > > > > > that zooms use lots of elements, and that cheap prosumer

    glass
    > > > isn't
    > > > > > > very
    > > > > > > > > high quality, and that coatings and finish and materials

    > changes
    > > > > > > > > transmissivity, than you have no hope of comprehending that

    > all
    > > > > lenses
    > > > > > > > vary
    > > > > > > > > in brightness at a given rated f-stop.
    > > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > > > Here is a question for you kids to ponder, if f-stop is all

    > that
    > > > > > > > determines
    > > > > > > > > brightness, why do neutral density filters work?

    Ouuuuuuuuch,
    > > > your
    > > > > > > brain
    > > > > > > > > hurts.
    > > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > >
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > >

    > >
    > >

    >
    >
    George Preddy, Jan 18, 2004
    #20
    1. Advertising

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