Fuji and the horror of complex lens variation

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Rich, Nov 27, 2005.

  1. Rich

    Rich Guest

    This thread was (or should be) terrifying for anyone buying
    a camera/lens where the price is "artificially low." The 10x+ zooms
    on these cameras have great complexity. They are asked to zoom to 10x
    their lowest focal length, act as macro lenses, etc. All in a camera
    that costs around $700.00. The differences this guy found would be a
    "deal breaker" for anyone considering the camera who was looking for
    good performance. The question is, is this a fluke (bad product) or
    is this the range of variation one can expect with that model's lens??
    -Rich

    http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1012&message=16010533
     
    Rich, Nov 27, 2005
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. The best quality long zoom range lenses right now appear to be the Leica
    lenses supplied with the Panasonic FZ5/FZ20 series cameras. But even
    there, as with any bulk-manufactured product, an odd bad example may slip
    through.

    If someone is unhappy with the results they are getting, take the camera
    back to the shop where you bought it.

    The Fuji model you mention offers, I believe, a long zoom range lens with
    no image stabilisation - not a combination I would purchase today.

    David
     
    David J Taylor, Nov 27, 2005
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. On $DATE , David J Taylor wrote:

    > The best quality long zoom range lenses right now appear to be
    > the Leica
    > lenses supplied with the Panasonic FZ5/FZ20 series cameras. But
    > even there, as with any bulk-manufactured product, an odd bad
    > example may slip through.
    >
    > If someone is unhappy with the results they are getting, take the
    > camera back to the shop where you bought it.
    >
    > The Fuji model you mention offers, I believe, a long zoom range
    > lens with no image stabilisation - not a combination I would
    > purchase today.
    >


    I just bought a Fuji S9000 and I'm delighted with it. There seems
    to be an "anti-fuji" element on this newsgroup and people need to
    do their own research to determine which camera is best for them.
    Talk to many people, face to face where possible, and consider the
    source for your information. There is a lot of competition in
    this industry and some company's are not above organizing "trash
    talk campaigns" to discredit their competitors.


    --
    Regards,
    Fred.
    (Please remove FFFf from my email address to reply, if by email)
     
    Fred Williams, Nov 27, 2005
    #3
  4. Rich

    Guest

    Fred Williams wrote:

    > On $DATE , David J Taylor wrote:
    > <snip>
    > > The Fuji model you mention offers, I believe, a long zoom range
    > > lens with no image stabilisation - not a combination I would
    > > purchase today.

    >
    > I just bought a Fuji S9000 and I'm delighted with it. There seems
    > to be an "anti-fuji" element on this newsgroup and people need to
    > do their own research to determine which camera is best for them.


    I'm not convinced about a specific "anti Fuji" bias, just a desire to
    talk up the latest tech and disparage anything that isn't "leading
    edge" technology.
    I had owned a Minolta DiMage 7i for 3 years (until the Sony 5mp sensor
    died and it was replaced free with an A200 by Konica Minolta) and it
    was perhaps one of the best digicams that I've owned.
    No stabilisation and (only!) 5mp, but because of the lack of moving
    parts (no mirror slap or big shutter to impart shake) I was able to
    hand-hold to half (or less) the shutter speed suggested by the old
    1/(focal length) rule of thumb and still get nice sharp pictures.

    Assuming that the lens on your digicam has good contrast and sharpness,
    then it is realy up to "the nut behind the lens" to do their job :)
     
    , Nov 27, 2005
    #4
  5. Fred Williams wrote:
    > On $DATE , David J Taylor wrote:
    >
    >> The best quality long zoom range lenses right now appear to be
    >> the Leica
    >> lenses supplied with the Panasonic FZ5/FZ20 series cameras. But
    >> even there, as with any bulk-manufactured product, an odd bad
    >> example may slip through.
    >>
    >> If someone is unhappy with the results they are getting, take the
    >> camera back to the shop where you bought it.
    >>
    >> The Fuji model you mention offers, I believe, a long zoom range
    >> lens with no image stabilisation - not a combination I would
    >> purchase today.
    >>

    >
    > I just bought a Fuji S9000 and I'm delighted with it. There
    > seems to be an "anti-fuji" element on this newsgroup and people need
    > to
    > do their own research to determine which camera is best for them.
    > Talk to many people, face to face where possible, and consider the
    > source for your information. There is a lot of competition in
    > this industry and some company's are not above organizing "trash
    > talk campaigns" to discredit their competitors.


    Fred,

    I am sure you are not suggesting that I am in any way part of such a
    campaign.

    I would love the lower noise of certain Fuji sensors (if they have made a
    genuine advance there), but I stick by my views that:

    - anything mass-produced may have the occasional bad item, which should be
    replaced immediately by the supplier

    - a long zoom without image stabilisation is not something I would buy or
    recommend to others.

    I'm pleased that your new purchase is doing what /you/ need.

    David
     
    David J Taylor, Nov 27, 2005
    #5
  6. Rich

    Tesco News Guest

    "David J Taylor"
    <-this-bit.nor-this-part.uk.invalid> wrote in
    message news:Kriif.16511$...
    > Fred Williams wrote:
    > > On $DATE , David J Taylor wrote:
    > >
    > >> The best quality long zoom range lenses right now appear to be
    > >> the Leica
    > >> lenses supplied with the Panasonic FZ5/FZ20 series cameras. But
    > >> even there, as with any bulk-manufactured product, an odd bad
    > >> example may slip through.
    > >>
    > >> If someone is unhappy with the results they are getting, take the
    > >> camera back to the shop where you bought it.
    > >>
    > >> The Fuji model you mention offers, I believe, a long zoom range
    > >> lens with no image stabilisation - not a combination I would
    > >> purchase today.
    > >>

    > >
    > > I just bought a Fuji S9000 and I'm delighted with it. There
    > > seems to be an "anti-fuji" element on this newsgroup and people need
    > > to
    > > do their own research to determine which camera is best for them.
    > > Talk to many people, face to face where possible, and consider the
    > > source for your information. There is a lot of competition in
    > > this industry and some company's are not above organizing "trash
    > > talk campaigns" to discredit their competitors.

    >
    > Fred,
    >
    > I am sure you are not suggesting that I am in any way part of such a
    > campaign.
    >
    > I would love the lower noise of certain Fuji sensors (if they have made a
    > genuine advance there), but I stick by my views that:
    >
    > - anything mass-produced may have the occasional bad item, which should be
    > replaced immediately by the supplier
    >
    > - a long zoom without image stabilisation is not something I would buy or
    > recommend to others.
    >
    > I'm pleased that your new purchase is doing what /you/ need.
    >
    > David
    >
    >


    Hi all.

    My wife has had a Fuji S5500, with the 10x Zoom, for a year now.

    She is no "Expert" photographer, but when saving and tweaking her Pics, I
    can see no signs of "Shake" or any major lens faults.

    I have printed a number of her pics at 10 x 8, and there is nothing wrong
    with the quality.

    I suspect there seems to be certain amount of bias, on this group, not so
    much against Fuji, but in favour of the Leica badged lenses of another
    maker. A real Leica lens on a camera costing less than $2000, come on, who
    is kidding who.

    Roy G
     
    Tesco News, Nov 27, 2005
    #6
  7. "Fred Williams" <> wrote in message
    news:f_hif.130174$...
    > On $DATE , David J Taylor wrote:
    >
    >> The best quality long zoom range lenses right now appear to be
    >> the Leica
    >> lenses supplied with the Panasonic FZ5/FZ20 series cameras. But
    >> even there, as with any bulk-manufactured product, an odd bad
    >> example may slip through.
    >>
    >> If someone is unhappy with the results they are getting, take the
    >> camera back to the shop where you bought it.
    >>
    >> The Fuji model you mention offers, I believe, a long zoom range
    >> lens with no image stabilisation - not a combination I would
    >> purchase today.
    >>

    >
    > I just bought a Fuji S9000 and I'm delighted with it. There seems
    > to be an "anti-fuji" element on this newsgroup and people need to
    > do their own research to determine which camera is best for them.
    > Talk to many people, face to face where possible, and consider the
    > source for your information. There is a lot of competition in
    > this industry and some company's are not above organizing "trash
    > talk campaigns" to discredit their competitors.
    >
    >


    I agree with you. The blurry pictures seemed to be plainly out of focus or
    shaky. The article is biased. Even a cheap digicam cannot take a photo that
    bad. It is not the lens's fault if the camera holder uses a long zoom and
    cannot hold the camera still.


    Wannabe
    =======
     
    WannabeSomeone, Nov 27, 2005
    #7
  8. wrote:
    []
    > No stabilisation and (only!) 5mp, but because of the lack of moving
    > parts (no mirror slap or big shutter to impart shake) I was able to
    > hand-hold to half (or less) the shutter speed suggested by the old
    > 1/(focal length) rule of thumb and still get nice sharp pictures.


    Yes, the lack of mirror-slap helps a lot, but with image-stabilisation you
    can to ten times better that 1/(focal-length), and that's a gain well
    worth having, in my experience.

    David
     
    David J Taylor, Nov 27, 2005
    #8
  9. Tesco News wrote:
    []
    > I suspect there seems to be certain amount of bias, on this group,
    > not so much against Fuji, but in favour of the Leica badged lenses of
    > another maker. A real Leica lens on a camera costing less than
    > $2000, come on, who is kidding who.
    >
    > Roy G


    It's simple. If you compare the images produced, the Leica lens wins.

    David
     
    David J Taylor, Nov 27, 2005
    #9
  10. Rich

    Jim Guest

    "Fred Williams" <> wrote in message
    news:f_hif.130174$...
    > On $DATE , David J Taylor wrote:
    >
    >> The best quality long zoom range lenses right now appear to be
    >> the Leica
    >> lenses supplied with the Panasonic FZ5/FZ20 series cameras. But
    >> even there, as with any bulk-manufactured product, an odd bad
    >> example may slip through.
    >>
    >> If someone is unhappy with the results they are getting, take the
    >> camera back to the shop where you bought it.
    >>
    >> The Fuji model you mention offers, I believe, a long zoom range
    >> lens with no image stabilisation - not a combination I would
    >> purchase today.
    >>

    >
    > I just bought a Fuji S9000 and I'm delighted with it. There seems
    > to be an "anti-fuji" element on this newsgroup and people need to
    > do their own research to determine which camera is best for them.

    No, it is more likely that Fuji owners are thin skinned. I for one own
    Nikon gear. They make some great lenses, some very good ones, and a few
    that are best ignored.
    Jim
     
    Jim, Nov 27, 2005
    #10
  11. Rich

    Rich Guest

    On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 12:52:27 GMT, Fred Williams
    <> wrote:

    >On $DATE , David J Taylor wrote:
    >
    >> The best quality long zoom range lenses right now appear to be
    >> the Leica
    >> lenses supplied with the Panasonic FZ5/FZ20 series cameras. But
    >> even there, as with any bulk-manufactured product, an odd bad
    >> example may slip through.
    >>
    >> If someone is unhappy with the results they are getting, take the
    >> camera back to the shop where you bought it.
    >>
    >> The Fuji model you mention offers, I believe, a long zoom range
    >> lens with no image stabilisation - not a combination I would
    >> purchase today.
    >>

    >
    > I just bought a Fuji S9000 and I'm delighted with it. There seems
    >to be an "anti-fuji" element on this newsgroup and people need to
    >do their own research to determine which camera is best for them.


    That would exclude me. I've always been a fan of the Fuji products
    and think they do a great job. They are the only ones who have really
    addressed the noise issue with P&S cameras and the dymanic range issue
    with DSLRs.

    >Talk to many people, face to face where possible, and consider the
    >source for your information. There is a lot of competition in
    >this industry and some company's are not above organizing "trash
    >talk campaigns" to discredit their competitors.


    I don't think that guy was some plant.
    -Rich
     
    Rich, Nov 27, 2005
    #11
  12. Rich

    Rich Guest

    On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 14:08:49 GMT, "Tesco News"
    <> wrote:

    >"David J Taylor"
    ><-this-bit.nor-this-part.uk.invalid> wrote in
    >message news:Kriif.16511$...
    >> Fred Williams wrote:
    >> > On $DATE , David J Taylor wrote:
    >> >
    >> >> The best quality long zoom range lenses right now appear to be
    >> >> the Leica
    >> >> lenses supplied with the Panasonic FZ5/FZ20 series cameras. But
    >> >> even there, as with any bulk-manufactured product, an odd bad
    >> >> example may slip through.
    >> >>
    >> >> If someone is unhappy with the results they are getting, take the
    >> >> camera back to the shop where you bought it.
    >> >>
    >> >> The Fuji model you mention offers, I believe, a long zoom range
    >> >> lens with no image stabilisation - not a combination I would
    >> >> purchase today.
    >> >>
    >> >
    >> > I just bought a Fuji S9000 and I'm delighted with it. There
    >> > seems to be an "anti-fuji" element on this newsgroup and people need
    >> > to
    >> > do their own research to determine which camera is best for them.
    >> > Talk to many people, face to face where possible, and consider the
    >> > source for your information. There is a lot of competition in
    >> > this industry and some company's are not above organizing "trash
    >> > talk campaigns" to discredit their competitors.

    >>
    >> Fred,
    >>
    >> I am sure you are not suggesting that I am in any way part of such a
    >> campaign.
    >>
    >> I would love the lower noise of certain Fuji sensors (if they have made a
    >> genuine advance there), but I stick by my views that:
    >>
    >> - anything mass-produced may have the occasional bad item, which should be
    >> replaced immediately by the supplier
    >>
    >> - a long zoom without image stabilisation is not something I would buy or
    >> recommend to others.
    >>
    >> I'm pleased that your new purchase is doing what /you/ need.
    >>
    >> David
    >>
    >>

    >
    >Hi all.
    >
    >My wife has had a Fuji S5500, with the 10x Zoom, for a year now.
    >
    >She is no "Expert" photographer, but when saving and tweaking her Pics, I
    >can see no signs of "Shake" or any major lens faults.
    >
    >I have printed a number of her pics at 10 x 8, and there is nothing wrong
    >with the quality.
    >
    >I suspect there seems to be certain amount of bias, on this group, not so
    >much against Fuji, but in favour of the Leica badged lenses of another
    >maker. A real Leica lens on a camera costing less than $2000, come on, who
    >is kidding who.
    >
    >Roy G
    >


    I just metered outside on an overcast day at 100 ISO. The reading was
    1/125 at f4. Now, at 100mm, no problem. But at 300-400mm with a
    slower lens opening, I might be looking at 1/60 at f4.8. Not exactly
    hand holdable without shake. You'd either need to:
    -Raise the ISO
    -Use a tripod or minimally, a monopod.
    -Have anti-shake.

    -Rich
     
    Rich, Nov 27, 2005
    #12
  13. Rich

    Rich Guest

    On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 09:42:53 -0500, "WannabeSomeone"
    <> wrote:

    >
    >"Fred Williams" <> wrote in message
    >news:f_hif.130174$...
    >> On $DATE , David J Taylor wrote:
    >>
    >>> The best quality long zoom range lenses right now appear to be
    >>> the Leica
    >>> lenses supplied with the Panasonic FZ5/FZ20 series cameras. But
    >>> even there, as with any bulk-manufactured product, an odd bad
    >>> example may slip through.
    >>>
    >>> If someone is unhappy with the results they are getting, take the
    >>> camera back to the shop where you bought it.
    >>>
    >>> The Fuji model you mention offers, I believe, a long zoom range
    >>> lens with no image stabilisation - not a combination I would
    >>> purchase today.
    >>>

    >>
    >> I just bought a Fuji S9000 and I'm delighted with it. There seems
    >> to be an "anti-fuji" element on this newsgroup and people need to
    >> do their own research to determine which camera is best for them.
    >> Talk to many people, face to face where possible, and consider the
    >> source for your information. There is a lot of competition in
    >> this industry and some company's are not above organizing "trash
    >> talk campaigns" to discredit their competitors.
    >>
    >>

    >
    >I agree with you. The blurry pictures seemed to be plainly out of focus or
    >shaky. The article is biased. Even a cheap digicam cannot take a photo that
    >bad. It is not the lens's fault if the camera holder uses a long zoom and
    >cannot hold the camera still.
    >
    >
    >Wannabe
    >=======


    There were numerous shots all showing the same sort of problems.
    They guy seemed to be on the level. Why denigrate someone just
    because it hurts your feelings that they had a bad experience?
    Good thing is, he has the second good quality unit and will be able to
    keep it while (hopefully) the other won't simply be re-stocked by a
    complacent retailer.
    -Rich
     
    Rich, Nov 27, 2005
    #13
  14. Rich

    RobG Guest

    Fred Williams <> wrote
    >
    > I just bought a Fuji S9000 and I'm delighted with it. There
    > seems
    > to be an "anti-fuji" element on this newsgroup and people need to
    > do their own research to determine which camera is best for them.
    > Talk to many people, face to face where possible, and consider the
    > source for your information. There is a lot of competition in
    > this industry and some company's are not above organizing "trash
    > talk campaigns" to discredit their competitors.
    >
    >


    Y'know, last night I was gonna buy into this discussion with a fairly
    vitriolic post. But then I thought, "Ah, stuff it - it ain't worth the time
    or energy." And y'know what - I feel fine about that decision. The whingers
    will always whine, and there'll always be someone, somewhere, who doesn't
    like Company A's product, or won't but Company B's product because (fill in
    your own sorry excuse here).

    Just like Fred, I own and use and like (not love, like my old Ricoh KR-5) a
    Fuji S9500. It's competent, its optics are pretty good and it works.

    And I have no trouble holding a 300mm zoom steady for 1/30th second, so IS
    is just BS for me.

    Just my 1/2 dollar's worth...

    RobG
     
    RobG, Nov 28, 2005
    #14
  15. Rich

    RobG Guest

    "Jim" <> wrote
    > No, it is more likely that Fuji owners are thin skinned. I for one
    > own Nikon gear. They make some great lenses, some very good ones, and
    > a few that are best ignored.
    > Jim
    >
    >


    Possibly from defending their choice of camera to non-believers? I bought a
    an S9500 after using my brother's S3000 for a while - he bought an S9500
    too.

    RobG
     
    RobG, Nov 28, 2005
    #15
  16. RobG wrote:
    []
    > And I have no trouble holding a 300mm zoom steady for 1/30th second,
    > so IS is just BS for me.

    []

    Then you are lucky - it's not many people who can do that. For the rest
    of us, image stabilisation can help a lot.

    David
     
    David J Taylor, Nov 28, 2005
    #16
  17. Rich

    Paul J Gans Guest

    Fred Williams <> wrote:

    > I just bought a Fuji S9000 and I'm delighted with it. There seems
    >to be an "anti-fuji" element on this newsgroup and people need to
    >do their own research to determine which camera is best for them.
    >Talk to many people, face to face where possible, and consider the
    >source for your information. There is a lot of competition in
    >this industry and some company's are not above organizing "trash
    >talk campaigns" to discredit their competitors.


    You are quite right and it doesn't just apply to cameras.
    The same thing is true of lenses, pixel size, etc., etc.

    ----- Paul J. Gans
     
    Paul J Gans, Nov 28, 2005
    #17
  18. Rich

    Paul J Gans Guest

    David J Taylor <-this-bit.nor-this-part.uk.invalid> wrote:
    >RobG wrote:
    >[]
    >> And I have no trouble holding a 300mm zoom steady for 1/30th second,
    >> so IS is just BS for me.

    >[]


    >Then you are lucky - it's not many people who can do that. For the rest
    >of us, image stabilisation can help a lot.


    >David


    Seconded. Once upon a time when the world was young I too
    could hold a camera and lens steady sbots at 1/15 with a 50mm
    lens at f/4. You know, available darkness shots.

    Not any more. I *need* IS. Even when *not* using a camera...
    ;-)

    ----- Paul J. Gans
     
    Paul J Gans, Nov 29, 2005
    #18
  19. Rich

    Guest

    That sounds plausible.
    I will have try it out to confirm this for myself.
    The Dimage A200 that was the free replacement for my dead (and now much
    missed) Dimage 7i has yet to fired in anger.
    The main feature that I miss from the D-7i is the swiveling EVF, but my
    Perntax *ist-DS doesn't have that (the pentaprism viewfinder is great
    for manual focus) and I don't miss it on that.
     
    , Nov 29, 2005
    #19
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