Frame Relay Question

Discussion in 'Cisco' started by tman, Feb 4, 2008.

  1. tman

    tman Guest

    I am using the Trainsignal DVD to study for the CCNA certification
    test. I just worked through the frame relay lab. I have three
    routers connected to a fourth router that is configured as a frame
    relay switch. The lab was quite interesting. One thing that I need
    some clarification on is the use of subinterfaces in frame relay.

    The instuctor had us use a physical interface on the hub router, a
    multipoint subinterface on one of the spokes, and a point-to-point
    subinterface on the second spoke. Each serial interface had an ip
    address on the same subnet. He explained that all the different
    interfaces were not require for the lab, but that he wanted us to
    experience configuring each type. I presumed that the use of the
    various types of interface are proper to more advance study. None the
    less it would be nice to understand their context.

    Could one configure three routers in a hub and spoke topology using
    all physical interfaces with frame relay maps? If so, when would
    subinterfaces be required? I understand that a multiport
    subinterfaces are required to connect to multiple networks. I did
    some reading on the web and found that subinterfaces are used to deal
    with a split-horizon problem. I did not understand what that meant.
    could someone explain that?

    Thanks
    tman, Feb 4, 2008
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. tman

    Trendkill Guest

    On Feb 4, 1:16 am, tman <> wrote:
    > I am using the Trainsignal DVD to study for the CCNA certification
    > test. I just worked through the frame relay lab. I have three
    > routers connected to a fourth router that is configured as a frame
    > relay switch. The lab was quite interesting. One thing that I need
    > some clarification on is the use of subinterfaces in frame relay.
    >
    > The instuctor had us use a physical interface on the hub router, a
    > multipoint subinterface on one of the spokes, and a point-to-point
    > subinterface on the second spoke. Each serial interface had an ip
    > address on the same subnet. He explained that all the different
    > interfaces were not require for the lab, but that he wanted us to
    > experience configuring each type. I presumed that the use of the
    > various types of interface are proper to more advance study. None the
    > less it would be nice to understand their context.
    >
    > Could one configure three routers in a hub and spoke topology using
    > all physical interfaces with frame relay maps? If so, when would
    > subinterfaces be required? I understand that a multiport
    > subinterfaces are required to connect to multiple networks. I did
    > some reading on the web and found that subinterfaces are used to deal
    > with a split-horizon problem. I did not understand what that meant.
    > could someone explain that?
    >
    > Thanks


    The short is answer is absolutely, yes you can use regular serial
    interfaces with maps. This works fine, but the 'split horizon' issue
    you reference will be an issue. The issue is that a router will
    typically not advertise a route back out the same interface it just
    heard it from. Sub-interfaces may share the same physical port, but
    they are indeed separate logical interfaces, and therefore help
    mitigate the issue with split horizon.

    As an example, your hub router (lets call it A), has two maps to
    routers B and C which each own a /24. If you are not using sub-
    interfaces, router A will hear about the two /24s from routers B and
    C, but will not propagate them out to one another. In other words,
    router B will advertise say 192.168.1.0/24 to router A, but router A
    will then not send that on to router C. Similarly, router C's network
    will not make it around to router B. This issue could be solved with
    using separate VCs on separate serial interfaces, but that can be
    costly in hardware. Therefore, sub-interfaces are a great
    alternative.

    Here are a few links:

    http://www.ciscopress.com/articles/article.asp?p=170741&seqNum=5

    http://www.cisco.com/univercd/cc/td/doc/cisintwk/itg_v1/tr1918.htm
    Trendkill, Feb 4, 2008
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. tman

    tman Guest

    On Feb 4, 4:37 am, Trendkill <> wrote:
    > On Feb 4, 1:16 am, tman <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > > I am using the Trainsignal DVD to study for the CCNA certification
    > > test.  I just worked through the frame relay lab.  I have three
    > > routers connected to a fourth router that is configured as a frame
    > > relay switch.  The lab was quite interesting.  One thing that I need
    > > some clarification on is the use of subinterfaces in frame relay.

    >
    > > The instuctor had us use a physical interface on the hub router, a
    > > multipoint subinterface on one of the spokes, and a point-to-point
    > > subinterface on the second spoke.  Each serial interface had an ip
    > > address on the same subnet.  He explained that all the different
    > > interfaces were not require for the lab, but that he wanted us to
    > > experience configuring each type.  I presumed that the use of the
    > > various types of interface are proper to more advance study.  None the
    > > less it would be nice to understand their context.

    >
    > > Could one configure three routers in a hub and spoke topology using
    > > all physical interfaces with frame relay maps?  If so, when would
    > > subinterfaces be required?  I understand that a multiport
    > > subinterfaces are required to connect to multiple networks.  I did
    > > some reading on the web and found that subinterfaces are used to deal
    > > with a split-horizon problem.  I did not understand what that meant.
    > > could someone explain that?

    >
    > > Thanks

    >
    > The short is answer is absolutely, yes you can use regular serial
    > interfaces with maps.  This works fine, but the 'split horizon' issue
    > you reference will be an issue.  The issue is that a router will
    > typically not advertise a route back out the same interface it just
    > heard it from.  Sub-interfaces may share the same physical port, but
    > they are indeed separate logical interfaces, and therefore help
    > mitigate the issue with split horizon.
    >
    > As an example, your hub router (lets call it A), has two maps to
    > routers B and C which each own a /24.  If you are not using sub-
    > interfaces, router A will hear about the two /24s from routers B and
    > C, but will not propagate them out to one another.  In other words,
    > router B will advertise say 192.168.1.0/24 to router A, but router A
    > will then not send that on to router C.  Similarly, router C's network
    > will not make it around to router B.  This issue could be solved with
    > using separate VCs on separate serial interfaces, but that can be
    > costly in hardware.  Therefore, sub-interfaces are a great
    > alternative.
    >
    > Here are a few links:
    >
    > http://www.ciscopress.com/articles/article.asp?p=170741&seqNum=5
    >
    > http://www.cisco.com/univercd/cc/td/doc/cisintwk/itg_v1/tr1918.htm- Hide quoted text -
    >
    > - Show quoted text -


    Thanks for the explanation. Let's see if I can understand it. Two
    possibilities present them selves to my dim understanding of the
    issue:

    1. A subinterface on router A will accept an advertisement from
    router B and send it on to router C because a subinterface does not
    observer split-horizon.

    2. You have to configure two subinterfaces on router A with 2 DLCIs
    mapped to the serial ports on router B and router C so that when
    router A receives an advertisement on one subinterface from router B
    it sends it out to router C on the other subinterface thus observing
    split-horizon?

    Thanks for the links, I will study them.

    Thanks for your help/
    tman, Feb 4, 2008
    #3
  4. tman

    Trendkill Guest

    On Feb 4, 2:36 pm, tman <> wrote:
    > On Feb 4, 4:37 am, Trendkill <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    > > On Feb 4, 1:16 am, tman <> wrote:

    >
    > > > I am using the Trainsignal DVD to study for the CCNA certification
    > > > test. I just worked through the frame relay lab. I have three
    > > > routers connected to a fourth router that is configured as a frame
    > > > relay switch. The lab was quite interesting. One thing that I need
    > > > some clarification on is the use of subinterfaces in frame relay.

    >
    > > > The instuctor had us use a physical interface on the hub router, a
    > > > multipoint subinterface on one of the spokes, and a point-to-point
    > > > subinterface on the second spoke. Each serial interface had an ip
    > > > address on the same subnet. He explained that all the different
    > > > interfaces were not require for the lab, but that he wanted us to
    > > > experience configuring each type. I presumed that the use of the
    > > > various types of interface are proper to more advance study. None the
    > > > less it would be nice to understand their context.

    >
    > > > Could one configure three routers in a hub and spoke topology using
    > > > all physical interfaces with frame relay maps? If so, when would
    > > > subinterfaces be required? I understand that a multiport
    > > > subinterfaces are required to connect to multiple networks. I did
    > > > some reading on the web and found that subinterfaces are used to deal
    > > > with a split-horizon problem. I did not understand what that meant.
    > > > could someone explain that?

    >
    > > > Thanks

    >
    > > The short is answer is absolutely, yes you can use regular serial
    > > interfaces with maps. This works fine, but the 'split horizon' issue
    > > you reference will be an issue. The issue is that a router will
    > > typically not advertise a route back out the same interface it just
    > > heard it from. Sub-interfaces may share the same physical port, but
    > > they are indeed separate logical interfaces, and therefore help
    > > mitigate the issue with split horizon.

    >
    > > As an example, your hub router (lets call it A), has two maps to
    > > routers B and C which each own a /24. If you are not using sub-
    > > interfaces, router A will hear about the two /24s from routers B and
    > > C, but will not propagate them out to one another. In other words,
    > > router B will advertise say 192.168.1.0/24 to router A, but router A
    > > will then not send that on to router C. Similarly, router C's network
    > > will not make it around to router B. This issue could be solved with
    > > using separate VCs on separate serial interfaces, but that can be
    > > costly in hardware. Therefore, sub-interfaces are a great
    > > alternative.

    >
    > > Here are a few links:

    >
    > >http://www.ciscopress.com/articles/article.asp?p=170741&seqNum=5

    >
    > >http://www.cisco.com/univercd/cc/td/doc/cisintwk/itg_v1/tr1918.htm-Hide quoted text -

    >
    > > - Show quoted text -

    >
    > Thanks for the explanation. Let's see if I can understand it. Two
    > possibilities present them selves to my dim understanding of the
    > issue:
    >
    > 1. A subinterface on router A will accept an advertisement from
    > router B and send it on to router C because a subinterface does not
    > observer split-horizon.
    >
    > 2. You have to configure two subinterfaces on router A with 2 DLCIs
    > mapped to the serial ports on router B and router C so that when
    > router A receives an advertisement on one subinterface from router B
    > it sends it out to router C on the other subinterface thus observing
    > split-horizon?
    >
    > Thanks for the links, I will study them.
    >
    > Thanks for your help/


    I would be careful using the word 'observing', as I'm not sure exactly
    what you mean. That being said, I believe your understanding of the
    concept is correct. The alternative option is to leave it as a single
    interface, but disable split-horizon. I think all routing protocols
    support the ability to disable split-horizon, but you should check.
    However, sub interfaces is definitely the more eloquent solution.
    Trendkill, Feb 4, 2008
    #4
  5. tman

    tman Guest

    On Feb 4, 12:05 pm, Trendkill <> wrote:
    > On Feb 4, 2:36 pm, tman <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > > On Feb 4, 4:37 am, Trendkill <> wrote:

    >
    > > > On Feb 4, 1:16 am, tman <> wrote:

    >
    > > > > I am using the Trainsignal DVD to study for the CCNA certification
    > > > > test.  I just worked through the frame relay lab.  I have three
    > > > > routers connected to a fourth router that is configured as a frame
    > > > > relay switch.  The lab was quite interesting.  One thing that I need
    > > > > some clarification on is the use of subinterfaces in frame relay.

    >
    > > > > The instuctor had us use a physical interface on the hub router, a
    > > > > multipoint subinterface on one of the spokes, and a point-to-point
    > > > > subinterface on the second spoke.  Each serial interface had an ip
    > > > > address on the same subnet.  He explained that all the different
    > > > > interfaces were not require for the lab, but that he wanted us to
    > > > > experience configuring each type.  I presumed that the use of the
    > > > > various types of interface are proper to more advance study.  None the
    > > > > less it would be nice to understand their context.

    >
    > > > > Could one configure three routers in a hub and spoke topology using
    > > > > all physical interfaces with frame relay maps?  If so, when would
    > > > > subinterfaces be required?  I understand that a multiport
    > > > > subinterfaces are required to connect to multiple networks.  I did
    > > > > some reading on the web and found that subinterfaces are used to deal
    > > > > with a split-horizon problem.  I did not understand what that meant.
    > > > > could someone explain that?

    >
    > > > > Thanks

    >
    > > > The short is answer is absolutely, yes you can use regular serial
    > > > interfaces with maps.  This works fine, but the 'split horizon' issue
    > > > you reference will be an issue.  The issue is that a router will
    > > > typically not advertise a route back out the same interface it just
    > > > heard it from.  Sub-interfaces may share the same physical port, but
    > > > they are indeed separate logical interfaces, and therefore help
    > > > mitigate the issue with split horizon.

    >
    > > > As an example, your hub router (lets call it A), has two maps to
    > > > routers B and C which each own a /24.  If you are not using sub-
    > > > interfaces, router A will hear about the two /24s from routers B and
    > > > C, but will not propagate them out to one another.  In other words,
    > > > router B will advertise say 192.168.1.0/24 to router A, but router A
    > > > will then not send that on to router C.  Similarly, router C's network
    > > > will not make it around to router B.  This issue could be solved with
    > > > using separate VCs on separate serial interfaces, but that can be
    > > > costly in hardware.  Therefore, sub-interfaces are a great
    > > > alternative.

    >
    > > > Here are a few links:

    >
    > > >http://www.ciscopress.com/articles/article.asp?p=170741&seqNum=5

    >
    > > >http://www.cisco.com/univercd/cc/td/doc/cisintwk/itg_v1/tr1918.htm-Hidequoted text -

    >
    > > > - Show quoted text -

    >
    > > Thanks for the explanation.  Let's see if I can understand it.  Two
    > > possibilities present them selves to my dim understanding of the
    > > issue:

    >
    > > 1.  A subinterface on router A will accept an advertisement from
    > > router B and send it on to router C because a subinterface does not
    > > observer split-horizon.

    >
    > > 2.  You have to configure two subinterfaces on router A with 2 DLCIs
    > > mapped to the serial ports on router B and router C so that when
    > > router A receives an advertisement on one subinterface from router B
    > > it sends it out to router C on the other subinterface thus observing
    > > split-horizon?

    >
    > > Thanks for the links, I will study them.

    >
    > > Thanks for your help/

    >
    > I would be careful using the word 'observing', as I'm not sure exactly
    > what you mean.  That being said, I believe your understanding of the
    > concept is correct.  The alternative option is to leave it as a single
    > interface, but disable split-horizon.  I think all routing protocols
    > support the ability to disable split-horizon, but you should check.
    > However, sub interfaces is definitely the more eloquent solution.- Hide quoted text -
    >
    > - Show quoted text -


    Do you have to set two subinterfaces on the hub or just one?

    Thanks
    tman, Feb 5, 2008
    #5
  6. tman

    Trendkill Guest

    On Feb 4, 7:12 pm, tman <> wrote:
    > On Feb 4, 12:05 pm, Trendkill <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    > > On Feb 4, 2:36 pm, tman <> wrote:

    >
    > > > On Feb 4, 4:37 am, Trendkill <> wrote:

    >
    > > > > On Feb 4, 1:16 am, tman <> wrote:

    >
    > > > > > I am using the Trainsignal DVD to study for the CCNA certification
    > > > > > test. I just worked through the frame relay lab. I have three
    > > > > > routers connected to a fourth router that is configured as a frame
    > > > > > relay switch. The lab was quite interesting. One thing that I need
    > > > > > some clarification on is the use of subinterfaces in frame relay.

    >
    > > > > > The instuctor had us use a physical interface on the hub router, a
    > > > > > multipoint subinterface on one of the spokes, and a point-to-point
    > > > > > subinterface on the second spoke. Each serial interface had an ip
    > > > > > address on the same subnet. He explained that all the different
    > > > > > interfaces were not require for the lab, but that he wanted us to
    > > > > > experience configuring each type. I presumed that the use of the
    > > > > > various types of interface are proper to more advance study. None the
    > > > > > less it would be nice to understand their context.

    >
    > > > > > Could one configure three routers in a hub and spoke topology using
    > > > > > all physical interfaces with frame relay maps? If so, when would
    > > > > > subinterfaces be required? I understand that a multiport
    > > > > > subinterfaces are required to connect to multiple networks. I did
    > > > > > some reading on the web and found that subinterfaces are used to deal
    > > > > > with a split-horizon problem. I did not understand what that meant.
    > > > > > could someone explain that?

    >
    > > > > > Thanks

    >
    > > > > The short is answer is absolutely, yes you can use regular serial
    > > > > interfaces with maps. This works fine, but the 'split horizon' issue
    > > > > you reference will be an issue. The issue is that a router will
    > > > > typically not advertise a route back out the same interface it just
    > > > > heard it from. Sub-interfaces may share the same physical port, but
    > > > > they are indeed separate logical interfaces, and therefore help
    > > > > mitigate the issue with split horizon.

    >
    > > > > As an example, your hub router (lets call it A), has two maps to
    > > > > routers B and C which each own a /24. If you are not using sub-
    > > > > interfaces, router A will hear about the two /24s from routers B and
    > > > > C, but will not propagate them out to one another. In other words,
    > > > > router B will advertise say 192.168.1.0/24 to router A, but router A
    > > > > will then not send that on to router C. Similarly, router C's network
    > > > > will not make it around to router B. This issue could be solved with
    > > > > using separate VCs on separate serial interfaces, but that can be
    > > > > costly in hardware. Therefore, sub-interfaces are a great
    > > > > alternative.

    >
    > > > > Here are a few links:

    >
    > > > >http://www.ciscopress.com/articles/article.asp?p=170741&seqNum=5

    >
    > > > >http://www.cisco.com/univercd/cc/td/doc/cisintwk/itg_v1/tr1918.htm-Hi...text -

    >
    > > > > - Show quoted text -

    >
    > > > Thanks for the explanation. Let's see if I can understand it. Two
    > > > possibilities present them selves to my dim understanding of the
    > > > issue:

    >
    > > > 1. A subinterface on router A will accept an advertisement from
    > > > router B and send it on to router C because a subinterface does not
    > > > observer split-horizon.

    >
    > > > 2. You have to configure two subinterfaces on router A with 2 DLCIs
    > > > mapped to the serial ports on router B and router C so that when
    > > > router A receives an advertisement on one subinterface from router B
    > > > it sends it out to router C on the other subinterface thus observing
    > > > split-horizon?

    >
    > > > Thanks for the links, I will study them.

    >
    > > > Thanks for your help/

    >
    > > I would be careful using the word 'observing', as I'm not sure exactly
    > > what you mean. That being said, I believe your understanding of the
    > > concept is correct. The alternative option is to leave it as a single
    > > interface, but disable split-horizon. I think all routing protocols
    > > support the ability to disable split-horizon, but you should check.
    > > However, sub interfaces is definitely the more eloquent solution.- Hide quoted text -

    >
    > > - Show quoted text -

    >
    > Do you have to set two subinterfaces on the hub or just one?
    >
    > Thanks


    Depends whether or not you are doing point to point or point to
    multipoint. If its point to point, you need multiple dlci's on a
    single sub interface. If its point to point, its one dlci per sub-
    interface. In short, you can do multiple sub-ints or a single sub-int
    with multiple dlci's. See the link below, and it shows you
    configuration examples:

    http://www.ciscopress.com/articles/article.asp?p=170741&seqNum=5
    Trendkill, Feb 5, 2008
    #6
  7. tman

    Trendkill Guest

    On Feb 4, 7:20 pm, Trendkill <> wrote:
    > On Feb 4, 7:12 pm, tman <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    > > On Feb 4, 12:05 pm, Trendkill <> wrote:

    >
    > > > On Feb 4, 2:36 pm, tman <> wrote:

    >
    > > > > On Feb 4, 4:37 am, Trendkill <> wrote:

    >
    > > > > > On Feb 4, 1:16 am, tman <> wrote:

    >
    > > > > > > I am using the Trainsignal DVD to study for the CCNA certification
    > > > > > > test. I just worked through the frame relay lab. I have three
    > > > > > > routers connected to a fourth router that is configured as a frame
    > > > > > > relay switch. The lab was quite interesting. One thing that I need
    > > > > > > some clarification on is the use of subinterfaces in frame relay.

    >
    > > > > > > The instuctor had us use a physical interface on the hub router, a
    > > > > > > multipoint subinterface on one of the spokes, and a point-to-point
    > > > > > > subinterface on the second spoke. Each serial interface had an ip
    > > > > > > address on the same subnet. He explained that all the different
    > > > > > > interfaces were not require for the lab, but that he wanted us to
    > > > > > > experience configuring each type. I presumed that the use of the
    > > > > > > various types of interface are proper to more advance study. None the
    > > > > > > less it would be nice to understand their context.

    >
    > > > > > > Could one configure three routers in a hub and spoke topology using
    > > > > > > all physical interfaces with frame relay maps? If so, when would
    > > > > > > subinterfaces be required? I understand that a multiport
    > > > > > > subinterfaces are required to connect to multiple networks. I did
    > > > > > > some reading on the web and found that subinterfaces are used to deal
    > > > > > > with a split-horizon problem. I did not understand what that meant.
    > > > > > > could someone explain that?

    >
    > > > > > > Thanks

    >
    > > > > > The short is answer is absolutely, yes you can use regular serial
    > > > > > interfaces with maps. This works fine, but the 'split horizon' issue
    > > > > > you reference will be an issue. The issue is that a router will
    > > > > > typically not advertise a route back out the same interface it just
    > > > > > heard it from. Sub-interfaces may share the same physical port, but
    > > > > > they are indeed separate logical interfaces, and therefore help
    > > > > > mitigate the issue with split horizon.

    >
    > > > > > As an example, your hub router (lets call it A), has two maps to
    > > > > > routers B and C which each own a /24. If you are not using sub-
    > > > > > interfaces, router A will hear about the two /24s from routers B and
    > > > > > C, but will not propagate them out to one another. In other words,
    > > > > > router B will advertise say 192.168.1.0/24 to router A, but router A
    > > > > > will then not send that on to router C. Similarly, router C's network
    > > > > > will not make it around to router B. This issue could be solved with
    > > > > > using separate VCs on separate serial interfaces, but that can be
    > > > > > costly in hardware. Therefore, sub-interfaces are a great
    > > > > > alternative.

    >
    > > > > > Here are a few links:

    >
    > > > > >http://www.ciscopress.com/articles/article.asp?p=170741&seqNum=5

    >
    > > > > >http://www.cisco.com/univercd/cc/td/doc/cisintwk/itg_v1/tr1918.htm-Hi...-

    >
    > > > > > - Show quoted text -

    >
    > > > > Thanks for the explanation. Let's see if I can understand it. Two
    > > > > possibilities present them selves to my dim understanding of the
    > > > > issue:

    >
    > > > > 1. A subinterface on router A will accept an advertisement from
    > > > > router B and send it on to router C because a subinterface does not
    > > > > observer split-horizon.

    >
    > > > > 2. You have to configure two subinterfaces on router A with 2 DLCIs
    > > > > mapped to the serial ports on router B and router C so that when
    > > > > router A receives an advertisement on one subinterface from router B
    > > > > it sends it out to router C on the other subinterface thus observing
    > > > > split-horizon?

    >
    > > > > Thanks for the links, I will study them.

    >
    > > > > Thanks for your help/

    >
    > > > I would be careful using the word 'observing', as I'm not sure exactly
    > > > what you mean. That being said, I believe your understanding of the
    > > > concept is correct. The alternative option is to leave it as a single
    > > > interface, but disable split-horizon. I think all routing protocols
    > > > support the ability to disable split-horizon, but you should check.
    > > > However, sub interfaces is definitely the more eloquent solution.- Hide quoted text -

    >
    > > > - Show quoted text -

    >
    > > Do you have to set two subinterfaces on the hub or just one?

    >
    > > Thanks

    >
    > Depends whether or not you are doing point to point or point to
    > multipoint. If its point to point, you need multiple dlci's on a
    > single sub interface. If its point to point, its one dlci per sub-
    > interface. In short, you can do multiple sub-ints or a single sub-int
    > with multiple dlci's. See the link below, and it shows you
    > configuration examples:
    >
    > http://www.ciscopress.com/articles/article.asp?p=170741&seqNum=5


    Correction above, point to multipoint would require multiple dlcis on
    same subint. Point to points would require multiple sub-ints.
    Trendkill, Feb 5, 2008
    #7
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