"Four out of five Linux PCs end up running Windows"

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Tony, Oct 1, 2004.

  1. Tony

    Tony Guest

    An interesting article? based on research from a well known research
    group - a bit like 3 steps forward 2 steps back for Linux - if it has any
    accuracy.
    http://www.pcauthority.com.au/news.aspx?CIaNID=16550&eid=2&edate=20041001

    "Although Linux backers boast of a growing market share on the desktop,
    especially in booming regions like Eastern Europe, Latin America, and
    Asia-Pacific, those numbers are hugely inflated, a research firm said
    yesterday, because most of the PCs actually end up running Windows.

    But those Windows are bogus copies, not the real deal, said Annette Jump, a
    principal analyst with Gartner's UK office, who finds a direct connection
    between piracy and Linux.

    "About 80 percent of systems pre-loaded with Linux in 2004 will end up
    running a pirated copy of Windows," she said."




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    Tony, Oct 1, 2004
    #1
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  2. Tony

    Peter Guest

    "Tony" <tbra at hyper dot net dot nz> wrote:
    > "About 80 percent of systems pre-loaded with Linux in 2004 will end up
    > running a pirated copy of Windows," she said."


    are you trying to say lots of the people who use Windows are actually
    running stolen copies? That is, implying Windows users are the pirates?

    Peter
    Peter, Oct 1, 2004
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  3. Tony wrote:
    > An interesting article? based on research from a well known research
    > group - a bit like 3 steps forward 2 steps back for Linux - if it has any
    > accuracy.
    > http://www.pcauthority.com.au/news.aspx?CIaNID=16550&eid=2&edate=20041001


    > "About 80 percent of systems pre-loaded with Linux in 2004 will end up
    > running a pirated copy of Windows," she said."


    hahaha, I was going to post this myself on thursday but didn't feel like
    getting the back lash.

    good luck.



    by the way, there were some interesting(but incorrect) links drawn up
    from this research.
    1, that selling linux based PC's increases piracy of Windows.

    Someone quite rightly then came to the conclusion that if 1 were true,
    then windows itself increases the likely hood the MS Office etc will be
    pirated.

    Funnily enough, I think that the second one is probably true, but the
    first, not likely.
    Dave - Dave.net.nz, Oct 1, 2004
    #3
  4. Tony

    Tony Guest

    "Peter" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > are you trying to say lots of the people who use Windows are actually
    > running stolen copies? That is, implying Windows users are the pirates?
    >
    > Peter


    I wasnt trying to say anything Peter, I found it an interesting article, I
    dont see where you could have
    got the idea I/it was saying Windows users are pirates from, even if you
    read just the quoted excerpt
    without reading the whole article it doesnt suggest that.
    Tony




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    Tony, Oct 1, 2004
    #4
  5. In article <415dd016$> in nz.comp on Sat, 2 Oct
    2004 09:45:57 +1200, <"Tony" <tbra at hyper dot net dot nz>> says...
    > An interesting article? based on research from a well known research
    > group - a bit like 3 steps forward 2 steps back for Linux - if it has any
    > accuracy.
    > http://www.pcauthority.com.au/news.aspx?CIaNID=16550&eid=2&edate=20041001
    >
    > "Although Linux backers boast of a growing market share on the desktop,
    > especially in booming regions like Eastern Europe, Latin America, and
    > Asia-Pacific, those numbers are hugely inflated, a research firm said
    > yesterday, because most of the PCs actually end up running Windows.
    >
    > But those Windows are bogus copies, not the real deal, said Annette Jump, a
    > principal analyst with Gartner's UK office, who finds a direct connection
    > between piracy and Linux.


    Sssh. Don't mention Gartner here - according to some people they are part
    of the great MS conspiracy to take over the world and make Bill Gates the
    president. LOL
    Patrick Dunford, Oct 1, 2004
    #5
  6. Tony

    Allistar Guest

    "Tony" <tbra at hyper dot net dot nz> wrote:

    > An interesting article? based on research from a well known research
    > group - a bit like 3 steps forward 2 steps back for Linux - if it has any
    > accuracy.
    > http://www.pcauthority.com.au/news.aspx?CIaNID=16550&eid=2&edate=20041001
    >
    > "Although Linux backers boast of a growing market share on the desktop,
    > especially in booming regions like Eastern Europe, Latin America, and
    > Asia-Pacific, those numbers are hugely inflated, a research firm said
    > yesterday, because most of the PCs actually end up running Windows.
    >
    > But those Windows are bogus copies, not the real deal, said Annette Jump,
    > a principal analyst with Gartner's UK office, who finds a direct
    > connection between piracy and Linux.
    >
    > "About 80 percent of systems pre-loaded with Linux in 2004 will end up
    > running a pirated copy of Windows," she said."
    >
    >
    >
    >
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    > -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----


    I would suggest there would be more PC's purchased with Windows that then
    have Linux installed on them than vice-versa. I say this simply because it
    is easier to get a PC with Windows pe-installed than it is to get one with
    Linux pre-installed.

    Allistar.
    Allistar, Oct 2, 2004
    #6
  7. Tony

    ChrisOD Guest

    Tony wrote:
    > An interesting article? based on research from a well known research
    > group - a bit like 3 steps forward 2 steps back for Linux - if it has any
    > accuracy.
    > http://www.pcauthority.com.au/news.aspx?CIaNID=16550&eid=2&edate=20041001
    >
    > "Although Linux backers boast of a growing market share on the desktop,
    > especially in booming regions like Eastern Europe, Latin America, and
    > Asia-Pacific, those numbers are hugely inflated, a research firm said
    > yesterday, because most of the PCs actually end up running Windows.
    >
    > But those Windows are bogus copies, not the real deal, said Annette Jump, a
    > principal analyst with Gartner's UK office, who finds a direct connection
    > between piracy and Linux.
    >
    > "About 80 percent of systems pre-loaded with Linux in 2004 will end up
    > running a pirated copy of Windows," she said."
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
    > http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
    > -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----



    Seems to me that what they are saying is 4/5 of PCs with Linux
    Preinstalled end up running windows.

    Now that is a totally different message than the actual subject line.
    Maybe this is more of a religious utterance than actual information?!

    In fact a less poor view of statistics could use this research to
    suggest that at present linux would have a 20% share if it got more
    exposure.

    As I no noone who bought their PC with linux preinstalled and I know
    heaps of people that bought it with Windows preinstalled, I suspect that
    this is just bogus research and the statistics that they have tied
    together to suggest that linux is more niche than other commentators
    suggest.

    Personally who cares? I use both linux and windows all the time. Even if
    I didn't have to use the standard corporate tools I would probably still
    use windows a lot. Some is for home gaming (especially for the kids) and
    some software I like and use a lot is only available (at reasonable
    standards) for windows. And also if I always have a linux box running on
    the home network I am only a ssh session away from linux.


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    ChrisOD, Oct 2, 2004
    #7
  8. Tony

    theseus Guest

    "Tony" <tbra at hyper dot net dot nz> wrote in message
    news:415dd016$...
    > An interesting article? based on research from a well known research
    > group - a bit like 3 steps forward 2 steps back for Linux - if it has any
    > accuracy.
    > http://www.pcauthority.com.au/news.aspx?CIaNID=16550&eid=2&edate=20041001
    >
    > "Although Linux backers boast of a growing market share on the desktop,
    > especially in booming regions like Eastern Europe, Latin America, and
    > Asia-Pacific, those numbers are hugely inflated, a research firm said
    > yesterday, because most of the PCs actually end up running Windows.
    >
    > But those Windows are bogus copies, not the real deal, said Annette Jump,
    > a principal analyst with Gartner's UK office, who finds a direct
    > connection between piracy and Linux.
    >
    > "About 80 percent of systems pre-loaded with Linux in 2004 will end up
    > running a pirated copy of Windows," she said."
    >


    And a number of PCs with licensed copies of Windows will end up running
    Linux

    I expect vendors put linux or freedos or bsd on these OS charge free
    whiteboxes to show that they run, its quite a good idea.
    I see Dick Smiths had Knoppix running on the transmeta laptops they had.
    Microsoft can protect their own product, they have done it before by
    releasing service packs that invalidate pirated versions.
    Some people buy a PC that has XP Home bundled and end up putting Pro on it,
    some corporates buy PCs with XP installed and end up nuking that and putting
    their volume licensing image on and Microsoft gets paid twice.
    I don't see Gartner complaining about that.
    theseus, Oct 2, 2004
    #8
  9. Tony

    Cheetah Guest

    Patrick Dunford wrote:

    > Sssh. Don't mention Gartner here - according to some people they are part
    > of the great MS conspiracy to take over the world and make Bill Gates the
    > president. LOL


    Why slander Gartner? I think they have been quite fair usually.

    However they didn't seem to identify how many Windows machines have Linux
    installed.

    Besides, what is the argument? That selling Linux on computers shouldn't be
    allowed in case the user installs Windows on it later? Perhaps we should'nt
    sell Windows machines preinstalled to protect Linux :)
    Cheetah, Oct 2, 2004
    #9
  10. Tony

    Peter Guest

    Peter, Oct 2, 2004
    #10
  11. Tony

    Guest

    On Sat, 02 Oct 2004 09:45:57 +1200, Tony wrote:

    > An interesting article? based on research from a well known research
    > group - a bit like 3 steps forward 2 steps back for Linux - if it has any
    > accuracy.
    > http://www.pcauthority.com.au/news.aspx?CIaNID=16550&eid=2&edate=20041001
    >
    > "Although Linux backers boast of a growing market share on the desktop,
    > especially in booming regions like Eastern Europe, Latin America, and
    > Asia-Pacific, those numbers are hugely inflated, a research firm said
    > yesterday, because most of the PCs actually end up running Windows.
    >
    > But those Windows are bogus copies, not the real deal, said Annette Jump, a
    > principal analyst with Gartner's UK office, who finds a direct connection
    > between piracy and Linux.
    >
    > "About 80 percent of systems pre-loaded with Linux in 2004 will end up
    > running a pirated copy of Windows," she said."


    Interesting point: How would they know which Linux boxen are having
    pirated copies of Micro$oft Windows installed on them?

    If they are installing pirated software then wouldn't they keep that fact
    quiet?

    I mean, "he who has a secret must keep it secret that he has a secret to
    keep".


    Divine

    --
    "Even the most fanatical Microsoft supporter has to see that Longhorn has
    become Shorthorn."
    , Oct 2, 2004
    #11
  12. Tony

    Dumbkiwi Guest

    On Sat, 02 Oct 2004 10:35:42 +1200, Tony wrote:

    > "Peter" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> are you trying to say lots of the people who use Windows are actually
    >> running stolen copies? That is, implying Windows users are the pirates?
    >>
    >> Peter

    >
    > I wasnt trying to say anything Peter, I found it an interesting article, I
    > dont see where you could have
    > got the idea I/it was saying Windows users are pirates from, even if you
    > read just the quoted excerpt
    > without reading the whole article it doesnt suggest that.
    > Tony
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
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    > -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----


    What I find offensive is the attempt to link linux as a cause of piracy.
    ie. buying linux pre-installed on a pc causes people to install pirated
    copies of windows on those pc's. The article never explicitly says this,
    but the headline, and the reference to there being a link between linux
    and piracy is enough of an insinuation to put linux in a bad light.

    Linux has nothing to do with piracy of windows (not in this context, or
    any other that I can think of). Just like if they put freedos on those
    computers, freedos wouldn't cause piracy. What causes piracy is the
    ridiculous cost of windows software, and the 80% profit margin on every
    sale of windows and office.

    I'm not sure what Gartner was trying to prove by releasing this article,
    or where the hell they got their stats. Did they ring up people who
    bought these boxes, and say 'Did you put a pirate copy of windows on that
    'puter?', and 80% of respondants said yes? Seems extraordinary to me.

    Matt
    Dumbkiwi, Oct 2, 2004
    #12
  13. Tony

    Ryan Jacobs Guest

    "Tony" <tbra at hyper dot net dot nz> wrote in message
    news:415dd016$...
    > An interesting article? based on research from a well known research
    > group - a bit like 3 steps forward 2 steps back for Linux - if it has any
    > accuracy.
    > http://www.pcauthority.com.au/news.aspx?CIaNID=16550&eid=2&edate=20041001
    >
    > "Although Linux backers boast of a growing market share on the desktop,
    > especially in booming regions like Eastern Europe, Latin America, and
    > Asia-Pacific, those numbers are hugely inflated, a research firm said
    > yesterday, because most of the PCs actually end up running Windows.
    >
    > But those Windows are bogus copies, not the real deal, said Annette Jump,
    > a principal analyst with Gartner's UK office, who finds a direct
    > connection between piracy and Linux.
    >
    > "About 80 percent of systems pre-loaded with Linux in 2004 will end up
    > running a pirated copy of Windows," she said."
    >


    Well, firstly, let me say that I'm going to agree with the Linux crowd on
    this one (shock, horror - has hell frozen over?).

    Secondly, everyone should have it brought to their attention that Gartner
    live in a mythical world called "Theoretical". Gartner are basically an
    "academic" organisation where their attititude is - NEVER LET THE FACTS
    CLOUD THE THEORETICAL POSSIBILITIES.

    So.....

    The article has soooooo many inaccuracies in it - it needs to be
    euthenaised.

    Ok, yes, of course, Linux has a growing market share - no dispute. But it's
    related to piracy of MS Windows - DUH! FFS - complete bullshit!

    "About 80 percent of systems pre-loaded with Linux in 2004 will end up
    running a pirated copy of Windows," Huh? Some evidence would be helpful.
    Oh, sorry, evidence and Gartner have never been friends.

    "Windows' high price is driving overseas system integrators and hardware
    vendors to install Linux, the free open source operating system, Jump said,
    to keep prices down" Ummm, again bullshit! System integrators preload Linux
    for one reason (and one reason only) - consumer demand (which is slowly
    increasing).

    "Two-fifths of the machines shipped with Linux don't even make it into
    users' hands before a counterfeit copy of Windows is slapped on the drive"
    Ummmm, some evidence would be nice. The implication is that system
    integrators are the pirates. I would, however, accept that maybe (stress
    MAYBE) the user might elect to go down that road.

    "PC builders are taking advantage of the large-scale counterfeiting of
    Windows, and the ultra-low price of pirated versions". This really confirms
    why Gartner are totally wrapped up in the theoretical world. If they had a
    clue - they'd know that pirated copies are NOT "ultra-low price" - they are
    free (if you know where to look).

    "For a long time, Microsoft closed its eyes to counterfeiting". They did?
    Wow! One thing that MS has always been very active in is <trying> to
    eliminate piracy. Wow, Gartner - you idiots are REALLY up to speed - NOT!

    "Despite some regional variations, Linux continues to be a niche OS, with a
    1.3 percent share of installed PCs worldwide in 2004," said Jump. Even as
    late as 2008, Linux will be used on only 2.6 percent of the world's PCs" -
    This is my favourite! Ok Gartner - given your total inability to predict the
    past - how the f*ck do you intend to predict the future?

    In closing - Linux will increase in market share (IMHO) - but not because of
    the bullshit Gartner claims.
    Ryan Jacobs, Oct 2, 2004
    #13
  14. Tony

    thing Guest

    Peter wrote:
    > "Tony" <tbra at hyper dot net dot nz> wrote:
    >
    >>"About 80 percent of systems pre-loaded with Linux in 2004 will end up
    >>running a pirated copy of Windows," she said."

    >
    >
    > are you trying to say lots of the people who use Windows are actually
    > running stolen copies? That is, implying Windows users are the pirates?
    >
    > Peter
    >


    guess so.

    Funny but in my last company we had 2 groups, NT and Unix/Linux, the
    number of sites the NT ppl knew for password cracks was just not true...

    regards

    Thing
    thing, Oct 2, 2004
    #14
  15. In article <snt7d.9010$>,
    "Ryan Jacobs" <> wrote:

    >...everyone should have it brought to their attention that Gartner
    >live in a mythical world called "Theoretical". Gartner are basically an
    >"academic" organisation where their attititude is - NEVER LET THE FACTS
    >CLOUD THE THEORETICAL POSSIBILITIES.


    I should point out that Gartner also predicted that XP Starter Edition
    (the cut-down, cheaper version that Microsoft are selling in Thailand
    and elsewhere) would be a cause of piracy, for a similar reason--people
    would rather install a more complete version of XP.
    Lawrence D¹Oliveiro, Oct 3, 2004
    #15
  16. Tony

    theseus Guest

    "thing" <> wrote in message
    news:mcG7d.6265$...
    > Peter wrote:
    >> "Tony" <tbra at hyper dot net dot nz> wrote:
    >>
    >>>"About 80 percent of systems pre-loaded with Linux in 2004 will end up
    >>>running a pirated copy of Windows," she said."

    >>
    >> are you trying to say lots of the people who use Windows are actually
    >> running stolen copies? That is, implying Windows users are the pirates?
    >>
    >> Peter
    >>

    >
    > guess so.
    >
    > Funny but in my last company we had 2 groups, NT and Unix/Linux, the
    > number of sites the NT ppl knew for password cracks was just not true...
    >
    > regards
    >
    > Thing
    >


    It has been pointed out to Gartner by others that anyone who would claim
    that preinstalled linux encourages Windows piracy must also accept that
    pre-installed Windows would encourage Windows application piracy.
    In other words Microsoft is responsible for all the piracy of Windows
    applications and they should build some rights management system into their
    operating systems to stop it.
    theseus, Oct 3, 2004
    #16
  17. Tony

    thing Guest

    theseus wrote:
    > "thing" <> wrote in message
    > news:mcG7d.6265$...
    >
    >>Peter wrote:
    >>
    >>>"Tony" <tbra at hyper dot net dot nz> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>"About 80 percent of systems pre-loaded with Linux in 2004 will end up
    >>>>running a pirated copy of Windows," she said."
    >>>
    >>> are you trying to say lots of the people who use Windows are actually
    >>>running stolen copies? That is, implying Windows users are the pirates?
    >>>
    >>>Peter
    >>>

    >>
    >>guess so.
    >>
    >>Funny but in my last company we had 2 groups, NT and Unix/Linux, the
    >>number of sites the NT ppl knew for password cracks was just not true...
    >>
    >>regards
    >>
    >>Thing
    >>

    >
    >
    > It has been pointed out to Gartner by others that anyone who would claim
    > that preinstalled linux encourages Windows piracy must also accept that
    > pre-installed Windows would encourage Windows application piracy.
    > In other words Microsoft is responsible for all the piracy of Windows
    > applications and they should build some rights management system into their
    > operating systems to stop it.


    I found it interesting that while I as a linux user would simply
    download a GPL program to do what I wanted, and get it going, often the
    NT ppl would pick a commercial app and crack it, even if there was a GPL
    program available. So I used to wonder who had the better attitude to
    IP, open source proponents who generally seem to obey licences, or
    commercial users who would rather crack and illegally use say MS office
    rather than use Open Office etc etc.

    regards

    Thing
    thing, Oct 3, 2004
    #17
  18. It seems like Sun, 03 Oct 2004 18:09:19 +1300 was when thing
    <> said Blah blah blah...

    >I found it interesting that while I as a linux user would simply
    >download a GPL program to do what I wanted, and get it going, often the
    >NT ppl would pick a commercial app and crack it, even if there was a GPL
    >program available. So I used to wonder who had the better attitude to
    >IP, open source proponents who generally seem to obey licences, or
    >commercial users who would rather crack and illegally use say MS office
    >rather than use Open Office etc etc.


    Yeah, while you wouldn't be surprised at the wealth of information
    stored at sourceforge.net, a lot of non-linux people are. It seems
    that a lot of people are unaware of GPL programs, put simply. Heck,
    GPL marketing here on TV and Radio leaves a little something to be
    desired:) Perhaps people would rather crack Office than use open
    Office because Open Office is more rougher around the edges than
    Office, and people who crack Office aren't scared of getting caught
    because of the sheer numbers of people who do it, and the sufficient
    ease of which it is to apply a crack.
    --
    Regards,
    Waylon Kenning.

    1st Year B.I.T. WelTec
    Waylon Kenning, Oct 3, 2004
    #18
  19. Patrick Dunford, Oct 5, 2004
    #19
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