Found this article.... wow...

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by flounda@usit.net, Jul 29, 2003.

  1. Guest

    On 28 Jul 2003 19:44:26 -0700, (John Zimmerman)
    wrote:

    >Found this article..
    >
    >There have been a lot of people that have called the whole thing a
    >hoax, whether it is because of the position of the system or because
    >of the name. The creators say go ahead and speculate but stop
    >laughing. The Phantom is a real thing and looks to revolutionize video
    >gaming providing real-time game purchasing, game rental and try before
    >you buy all on demand.
    >
    >"Being a gamer, there is no two ways about it," says Dale Eldridge,
    >Vice President of Infinium Labs. "You'll have CDs that get scratched
    >that will no longer work and you have to front the cost to buy the
    >same game multiple times. And you buy a system, the developer upgrades
    >it, you can't play the game you have before on the same proprietary
    >console, and then your little cheap $200 consumer item breaks because
    >it is only a toy. The most frustrating is the titles only appeal to
    >the 8-18 year olds and don't offer the genres and title selection
    >which appeals to the 3-38 year olds which is 80% of the market today.
    >It's frustrating. So what we've designed is a real machine with a
    >hassle free service allowing you a infinite selection of gaming
    >content. You no longer have to spend your time as an IT person. It can
    >be in your living room, it can be easy to use, it is built for the
    >hardcore horsepower driven gamer, it can appeal to all audiences, it
    >can be convenient, and it can be FUN!'"
    >


    I've got alot of questions and a wait and see attitude. Not sure what
    kind of delivery system this thing is going for or whether hard copies
    are still gonna be offered. I personally do not like the idea of not
    having an actual hard copy in my posession. I don't like the idea of
    the control of the game being dependent on the actions of a service or
    company. I don't like the idea of giving up the control to them.



    >One of the interesting things, Tim Roberts (CEO and founder) noted is
    >that other consoles are just PC's with Proprietary Operating Systems
    >which actually raise the cost of games, since they have to be
    >re-written to adapt to these consoles. He also stated that the
    >proprietary consoles have "built themselves into a box"; this means
    >that they have to purchase huge volumes of parts in order to achieve
    >the economies of scale. This also ties them into the same technology
    >for 5 years since they have produced tied up enormous amounts of there
    >cash and don't want to obsolete themselves.
    >
    >Roberts explained that the Beta tester requests were very successful.
    >With over 28k applications on file to date we have collected some very
    >resourceful testers which can help fine tune our product. We are
    >planning on distributing emails to the 300 lucky testers on Sept 15th
    >which will announce who has been selected. We will then shift gears
    >and open beta tester requests for Europe, Asia, Mexico and Australia,
    >as well as others. We are looking for the best, the elite hard core
    >gamers and also the top hackers and crackers out there. We will be
    >sending the United States and Canada beta testers consoles to them on
    >Sept 15th. The beta testers will need to sign an agreement to provide
    >1 year worth of testing for us and commit to provide feed back to us
    >regarding the service. They will be allowed to keep the equipment and
    >games but will have to pay there own broadband access fees. We will be
    >looking for 300 testers in each country, not just the United States
    >and Canada.
    >
    >We plan to launch our service in Europe and Asia in Q1 2005.
    >
    >Unlike the other current-generation systems on the market today, all
    >costing under 200 bucks, the Phantom looks to do something that no
    >other video gaming console has done before. The Phantom is the most
    >robust, upgradeable console which provides a better entertainment
    >package and will drive down the cost of games to the consumers.
    >
    >"The consumer who enters the market earlier is obviously going to pay
    >the price," says Roberts. "The people who bought the first generation
    >of Tivo ended up having to pay a little more. And there are going to
    >be people who will wait thinking that second generation product will
    >be cheaper, faster and better. But our console is upgradeable,
    >provides a refurbish program and also there are people who are willing
    >to come in early and adopt the product and help launch our service. As
    >we build our subscriber base, the consumer monthly service fee goes
    >down offset by our economies of scale. But the most dramatic change to
    >that is when the advertising revenue is achieved; consumers are
    >predicted to spend 7 times more time playing games than watching
    >television over the next 5 years (DFC Intelligence). Gaming is the
    >number one, the hottest sector in the world right now, outselling
    >movies and music. And because of that, as the subscriber base builds
    >and the advertising revenue comes in, we will drop the price to the
    >consumer. Over time, in the future, we foresee there will be no
    >monthly subscription fee, offset by the advertising revenues and large
    >subscriber base. The basic package will include 100's of games while
    >others are extending there package paying for games on demand and
    >rental." We need the help of the gamers to make this a reality, say
    >Roberts.


    Sounds to me like they'll probably offer lesser games that bombard you
    with spam to use for free. While they'll charge regularly for those
    games that people are really gonna want. Again the problem I would
    have, is the notion of downloading games. I want that hard copy. What
    would happen if something happens to your harddrive and all your games
    get lost ? Maybe the fee paid will offer unlimited downloads of a game
    purchased. Still downloading offers the provider with controls that
    I'm just not comfortable with. With a hard copy, the game is in my
    hands and can be played at any time, with reasonable care. On demand,
    they could limit play and make you pay to extend playtime. Maybe the
    prices and technology will make more sense later. But I am very
    concerned about how the content is controlled. And whether you will
    remain in control once you purchase a game outright, or whether fee's
    will build over time, just to be able to play the game anytime you
    want too. I would want the option of the hard copy. Perhaps burning it
    too a DVD or other format. I guess we'll see and hear more at some
    point soon.

    flounda


    >The folks at Infinium Labs hope to make it where you'll never have to
    >leave your house again to buy another game. All you'll have to do is
    >flip a switch, press a few buttons, and bam, you're in the game.
    >
    >"It's pretty revolutionary to the world to think of a closed, Virtual
    >Private Gaming Network™ or VPGN™, which is a performance based network
    >with 50 terabyte data centers," says Tim Roberts, CEO of Infinium
    >Labs. Interestingly, we are helping to reduce piracy which will
    >advance games allowing developers and publishers to reap more profits
    >to advance technology. Research has shown that for every game sold, 7
    >are pirated and some predict this to become a much larger number.
    >Because of the reduced profits caused from the piracy problem, it
    >holds back the advancements in gaming technology and virtual reality
    >which is against the long term goals of any hardcore gamer.
    >
    >To counteract the threat hackers, Infinium Labs has developed
    >bullet-proof closed network (VPGN™) and security (BLACKNIGHT™) for the
    >system, both digitally and physically through each layer of
    >technology.
    >
    >"We've covered the security pretty well," says Roberts. "It's pretty
    >interesting when you see what we have done. There are actually 8
    >levels of security. And we have recruited hackers from groups like
    >"The Legion of Doom (LOD) who are running layers of our security and
    >others which are just as infamous to help in the other technical areas
    >such as Andrew Huang who runs our console hardware security and is
    >very well known in the mod world for consoles. From the physical
    >security, we do everything from card key access to make sure no one
    >can get into our actual, physical servers, to sniffing all packets
    >through our VPGN™ and running an elite intrusion detection scheme and
    >team"
    >
    >There are a lot of questions about the Phantom. One of those is why
    >Infinium Labs chose to go with an embedded Windows XP system instead
    >of the faster Linux system. "People have asked if we're going to have
    >problems with Microsoft about using XP," explains Roberts. "Actually,
    >we've been working very closely with Microsoft on it. And the other
    >thing is that people have been concerned that XP is not as fast an
    >operating system as Linux. The reason we chose to go with XP embedded
    >is that we have customize that Operating System and are utilizing the
    >XPe Kernel and wrapping our customized gaming OS around it, believe it
    >or not, we have found that it is faster than. There are a lot of
    >things in Windows XPe that we don't need and we are gutting and
    >rewriting the code to our specifications. By the time we're done with
    >it, the system will have our own custom front end which is easy enough
    >for a 3 year old to navigate but advanced enough for any hard core
    >gamers demands. To the average user, they'll never know that it is
    >Windows XPe. The OS right now is in performance tests and loads
    >between 8-15 seconds. So it's very fast when you start the console for
    >the first time and reliable for an always on device."
    >
    >High end consumer electronic purchasers will now be appeased with the
    >built in functionality to implement this component directly into their
    >high end entertainment systems. With Dolby Digital 7.1 capabilities
    >and an extension cable which allows USB devices to be hooked up from
    >afar without dragging the console across the room to optical inputs
    >and all built in video standards including component video. Roberts
    >stated that it helps to be following the advancements with video
    >display technologies which are allowing for higher resolutions to the
    >home entertainment center. We have built this from a hard core gamer
    >perspective with keyboard, mice, joysticks and other accessories which
    >allow for better gaming controls and these come in wireless options.
    >One of the most advanced features of the device is the built in cable
    >modem, DSL or WIFI cards which auto-configure with your broadband last
    >mile providers and eliminate the need and expense to re-wire your home
    >which is one of the biggest challenges the other consoles have faced.
    >Roberts said "we don't really want to be in the console hardware
    >business and in the future you may see we are working with a large
    >company which has enormous scaling capacities as our subscriber base
    >dictates, or we may be a mix of Pay Per View like what Scientific
    >Atlanta is to the cable industry".
    >
    >Here is the back view of the Phantom Console which shows the high end
    >consumer design and ease of connecting to a broadband provider:
    >But ease of use isn't just for the consumers. Infinium Labs has also
    >made it very easy for developers to get their products published on
    >the Phantom.
    >
    >To the publishers, we're just another distributor," says Terry Nagy,
    >EVP of Content Acquisition. "To the current publishers, we're a way
    >for them to make more money because we can eliminate their packaging
    >costs and high retail distribution costs such as inventory and
    >insurance."
    >
    >"For game developers and publishers, it's pretty easy," says Nagy.
    >"When they sign up and are partners with the PhantomNet™ and Infinium
    >Labs™, basically they can self publish games directly to our networks.
    >It also allows the game developers to get immediate feedback. They can
    >pre-release a game; say a multiplayer game, to make sure the game is
    >performing correctly. It's a nice way to get a game out there and get
    >it corrected quickly. And the main draw is that the developers have no
    >costs to get the game published on the network. Basically, we take all
    >the porting costs out of their hands, and we'll actually cover the
    >costs for the port to our system, though the majority of games need no
    >porting since the OS is based on the XPe kernel."
    >
    >One of the problems that Infinium hopes to correct with the Phantom is
    >the shelf life of games. "The bigger problem, when you focus in on it,
    >is that the retail distribution model is broken," explains Roberts.
    >"So when a company like Microsoft goes to figure out what games it is
    >going to distribute, the only games that make sense are the games that
    >are smash hits for them to cover their costs to make any money. Sony
    >and Microsoft don't make money off of the consoles; they make money
    >off the software and accessories. Even though we're eliminating some
    >of their profit centers, the margins that they will make through our
    >delivery centers will be greater because of the reduced distribution
    >costs and longer shelf lives and being able to hold an infinite amount
    >of inventory and also the elimination of piracy adds to there top line
    >revenues.
    >
    >Even though the Phantom looks to be a serious contender in the video
    >game sector of entertainment, there will still be those who doubt. But
    >Infinium Labs looks to try to calm their fears.
    >
    >"Currently, we already have commitments for 5,000 titles to come on
    >our system at launch," says Roberts. "Out of these titles, a lot of
    >people are saying that most of these titles are going to be 5 or 10
    >years old, but surprisingly we are already in discussions and have
    >terms negotiated with several large publishers. And we're not going to
    >get every top title out there, but we know we'll launch with 20 of the
    >top 200 titles at launch, and continue to add those top titles in the
    >months ahead. It's all about money, so the more subscribers we
    >acquire the better the content becomes"
    >
    >"From the architectural viewpoint, we have built billions of dollars
    >worth of infrastructure at former companies," says Roberts. "We were
    >dealing with very high- end clients at these companies such as my
    >former startup "Savvis Communications". We were partners with
    >companies such as Deloitte and Touché. They would bring their clients
    >in to us and we would spend months architecting robust, fault
    >tolerant, and mission critical infrastructure for Fortune 500
    >companies. And when you're talking about online financial services and
    >data that companies are reliant on; they could potentially be out of
    >business if their service goes down, and companies like Savvis provide
    >a way to ensure there is never any downtime. We were the first to
    >offer Service Level Agreements or SLA's in the Tier 1 datacom
    >industry. We know how to build the scalability and reliability and I
    >think the difference in why we're going to be successful is because
    >PhantomNet™ has been built by the guys that know how to build
    >infrastructure, not being built by game developers. "
    >
    >With a 2-3 GHz processor and a 120 gig hard drive, component video,
    >cable modem, RF receiver all built into the system and the best video
    >card on the market, the Phantom looks to make a huge impact on the
    >gaming world.
    >
    >"We are going to do to the gaming industry what mp3.com has done to
    >the music industry, only we have a better mouse trap which eventually
    >will provide movies, music and e-books on demand" says Roberts.
     
    , Jul 29, 2003
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Found this article..

    There have been a lot of people that have called the whole thing a
    hoax, whether it is because of the position of the system or because
    of the name. The creators say go ahead and speculate but stop
    laughing. The Phantom is a real thing and looks to revolutionize video
    gaming providing real-time game purchasing, game rental and try before
    you buy all on demand.

    "Being a gamer, there is no two ways about it," says Dale Eldridge,
    Vice President of Infinium Labs. "You'll have CDs that get scratched
    that will no longer work and you have to front the cost to buy the
    same game multiple times. And you buy a system, the developer upgrades
    it, you can't play the game you have before on the same proprietary
    console, and then your little cheap $200 consumer item breaks because
    it is only a toy. The most frustrating is the titles only appeal to
    the 8-18 year olds and don't offer the genres and title selection
    which appeals to the 3-38 year olds which is 80% of the market today.
    It's frustrating. So what we've designed is a real machine with a
    hassle free service allowing you a infinite selection of gaming
    content. You no longer have to spend your time as an IT person. It can
    be in your living room, it can be easy to use, it is built for the
    hardcore horsepower driven gamer, it can appeal to all audiences, it
    can be convenient, and it can be FUN!'"

    One of the interesting things, Tim Roberts (CEO and founder) noted is
    that other consoles are just PC's with Proprietary Operating Systems
    which actually raise the cost of games, since they have to be
    re-written to adapt to these consoles. He also stated that the
    proprietary consoles have "built themselves into a box"; this means
    that they have to purchase huge volumes of parts in order to achieve
    the economies of scale. This also ties them into the same technology
    for 5 years since they have produced tied up enormous amounts of there
    cash and don't want to obsolete themselves.

    Roberts explained that the Beta tester requests were very successful.
    With over 28k applications on file to date we have collected some very
    resourceful testers which can help fine tune our product. We are
    planning on distributing emails to the 300 lucky testers on Sept 15th
    which will announce who has been selected. We will then shift gears
    and open beta tester requests for Europe, Asia, Mexico and Australia,
    as well as others. We are looking for the best, the elite hard core
    gamers and also the top hackers and crackers out there. We will be
    sending the United States and Canada beta testers consoles to them on
    Sept 15th. The beta testers will need to sign an agreement to provide
    1 year worth of testing for us and commit to provide feed back to us
    regarding the service. They will be allowed to keep the equipment and
    games but will have to pay there own broadband access fees. We will be
    looking for 300 testers in each country, not just the United States
    and Canada.

    We plan to launch our service in Europe and Asia in Q1 2005.

    Unlike the other current-generation systems on the market today, all
    costing under 200 bucks, the Phantom looks to do something that no
    other video gaming console has done before. The Phantom is the most
    robust, upgradeable console which provides a better entertainment
    package and will drive down the cost of games to the consumers.

    "The consumer who enters the market earlier is obviously going to pay
    the price," says Roberts. "The people who bought the first generation
    of Tivo ended up having to pay a little more. And there are going to
    be people who will wait thinking that second generation product will
    be cheaper, faster and better. But our console is upgradeable,
    provides a refurbish program and also there are people who are willing
    to come in early and adopt the product and help launch our service. As
    we build our subscriber base, the consumer monthly service fee goes
    down offset by our economies of scale. But the most dramatic change to
    that is when the advertising revenue is achieved; consumers are
    predicted to spend 7 times more time playing games than watching
    television over the next 5 years (DFC Intelligence). Gaming is the
    number one, the hottest sector in the world right now, outselling
    movies and music. And because of that, as the subscriber base builds
    and the advertising revenue comes in, we will drop the price to the
    consumer. Over time, in the future, we foresee there will be no
    monthly subscription fee, offset by the advertising revenues and large
    subscriber base. The basic package will include 100's of games while
    others are extending there package paying for games on demand and
    rental." We need the help of the gamers to make this a reality, say
    Roberts.

    The folks at Infinium Labs hope to make it where you'll never have to
    leave your house again to buy another game. All you'll have to do is
    flip a switch, press a few buttons, and bam, you're in the game.

    "It's pretty revolutionary to the world to think of a closed, Virtual
    Private Gaming Network™ or VPGN™, which is a performance based network
    with 50 terabyte data centers," says Tim Roberts, CEO of Infinium
    Labs. Interestingly, we are helping to reduce piracy which will
    advance games allowing developers and publishers to reap more profits
    to advance technology. Research has shown that for every game sold, 7
    are pirated and some predict this to become a much larger number.
    Because of the reduced profits caused from the piracy problem, it
    holds back the advancements in gaming technology and virtual reality
    which is against the long term goals of any hardcore gamer.

    To counteract the threat hackers, Infinium Labs has developed
    bullet-proof closed network (VPGN™) and security (BLACKNIGHT™) for the
    system, both digitally and physically through each layer of
    technology.

    "We've covered the security pretty well," says Roberts. "It's pretty
    interesting when you see what we have done. There are actually 8
    levels of security. And we have recruited hackers from groups like
    "The Legion of Doom (LOD) who are running layers of our security and
    others which are just as infamous to help in the other technical areas
    such as Andrew Huang who runs our console hardware security and is
    very well known in the mod world for consoles. From the physical
    security, we do everything from card key access to make sure no one
    can get into our actual, physical servers, to sniffing all packets
    through our VPGN™ and running an elite intrusion detection scheme and
    team"

    There are a lot of questions about the Phantom. One of those is why
    Infinium Labs chose to go with an embedded Windows XP system instead
    of the faster Linux system. "People have asked if we're going to have
    problems with Microsoft about using XP," explains Roberts. "Actually,
    we've been working very closely with Microsoft on it. And the other
    thing is that people have been concerned that XP is not as fast an
    operating system as Linux. The reason we chose to go with XP embedded
    is that we have customize that Operating System and are utilizing the
    XPe Kernel and wrapping our customized gaming OS around it, believe it
    or not, we have found that it is faster than. There are a lot of
    things in Windows XPe that we don't need and we are gutting and
    rewriting the code to our specifications. By the time we're done with
    it, the system will have our own custom front end which is easy enough
    for a 3 year old to navigate but advanced enough for any hard core
    gamers demands. To the average user, they'll never know that it is
    Windows XPe. The OS right now is in performance tests and loads
    between 8-15 seconds. So it's very fast when you start the console for
    the first time and reliable for an always on device."

    High end consumer electronic purchasers will now be appeased with the
    built in functionality to implement this component directly into their
    high end entertainment systems. With Dolby Digital 7.1 capabilities
    and an extension cable which allows USB devices to be hooked up from
    afar without dragging the console across the room to optical inputs
    and all built in video standards including component video. Roberts
    stated that it helps to be following the advancements with video
    display technologies which are allowing for higher resolutions to the
    home entertainment center. We have built this from a hard core gamer
    perspective with keyboard, mice, joysticks and other accessories which
    allow for better gaming controls and these come in wireless options.
    One of the most advanced features of the device is the built in cable
    modem, DSL or WIFI cards which auto-configure with your broadband last
    mile providers and eliminate the need and expense to re-wire your home
    which is one of the biggest challenges the other consoles have faced.
    Roberts said "we don't really want to be in the console hardware
    business and in the future you may see we are working with a large
    company which has enormous scaling capacities as our subscriber base
    dictates, or we may be a mix of Pay Per View like what Scientific
    Atlanta is to the cable industry".

    Here is the back view of the Phantom Console which shows the high end
    consumer design and ease of connecting to a broadband provider:
    But ease of use isn't just for the consumers. Infinium Labs has also
    made it very easy for developers to get their products published on
    the Phantom.

    To the publishers, we're just another distributor," says Terry Nagy,
    EVP of Content Acquisition. "To the current publishers, we're a way
    for them to make more money because we can eliminate their packaging
    costs and high retail distribution costs such as inventory and
    insurance."

    "For game developers and publishers, it's pretty easy," says Nagy.
    "When they sign up and are partners with the PhantomNet™ and Infinium
    Labs™, basically they can self publish games directly to our networks.
    It also allows the game developers to get immediate feedback. They can
    pre-release a game; say a multiplayer game, to make sure the game is
    performing correctly. It's a nice way to get a game out there and get
    it corrected quickly. And the main draw is that the developers have no
    costs to get the game published on the network. Basically, we take all
    the porting costs out of their hands, and we'll actually cover the
    costs for the port to our system, though the majority of games need no
    porting since the OS is based on the XPe kernel."

    One of the problems that Infinium hopes to correct with the Phantom is
    the shelf life of games. "The bigger problem, when you focus in on it,
    is that the retail distribution model is broken," explains Roberts.
    "So when a company like Microsoft goes to figure out what games it is
    going to distribute, the only games that make sense are the games that
    are smash hits for them to cover their costs to make any money. Sony
    and Microsoft don't make money off of the consoles; they make money
    off the software and accessories. Even though we're eliminating some
    of their profit centers, the margins that they will make through our
    delivery centers will be greater because of the reduced distribution
    costs and longer shelf lives and being able to hold an infinite amount
    of inventory and also the elimination of piracy adds to there top line
    revenues.

    Even though the Phantom looks to be a serious contender in the video
    game sector of entertainment, there will still be those who doubt. But
    Infinium Labs looks to try to calm their fears.

    "Currently, we already have commitments for 5,000 titles to come on
    our system at launch," says Roberts. "Out of these titles, a lot of
    people are saying that most of these titles are going to be 5 or 10
    years old, but surprisingly we are already in discussions and have
    terms negotiated with several large publishers. And we're not going to
    get every top title out there, but we know we'll launch with 20 of the
    top 200 titles at launch, and continue to add those top titles in the
    months ahead. It's all about money, so the more subscribers we
    acquire the better the content becomes"

    "From the architectural viewpoint, we have built billions of dollars
    worth of infrastructure at former companies," says Roberts. "We were
    dealing with very high- end clients at these companies such as my
    former startup "Savvis Communications". We were partners with
    companies such as Deloitte and Touché. They would bring their clients
    in to us and we would spend months architecting robust, fault
    tolerant, and mission critical infrastructure for Fortune 500
    companies. And when you're talking about online financial services and
    data that companies are reliant on; they could potentially be out of
    business if their service goes down, and companies like Savvis provide
    a way to ensure there is never any downtime. We were the first to
    offer Service Level Agreements or SLA's in the Tier 1 datacom
    industry. We know how to build the scalability and reliability and I
    think the difference in why we're going to be successful is because
    PhantomNet™ has been built by the guys that know how to build
    infrastructure, not being built by game developers. "

    With a 2-3 GHz processor and a 120 gig hard drive, component video,
    cable modem, RF receiver all built into the system and the best video
    card on the market, the Phantom looks to make a huge impact on the
    gaming world.

    "We are going to do to the gaming industry what mp3.com has done to
    the music industry, only we have a better mouse trap which eventually
    will provide movies, music and e-books on demand" says Roberts.
     
    John Zimmerman, Jul 29, 2003
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. magnulus Guest

    In other words, they are selling you a PC in a funny box, with a
    subscription service for games. The Windows XP is a dead giveaway. This
    thing is going to be even more of a PC than the XBox. Note the
    "upgradability" claims. Also note the "cross platform" claims thrown about-
    as if emulation for profit weren't a potential red flag for lawsuits. They
    can't even decide what videocard the machine will have. Being as ATI and
    NVidia aren't fully cross-compatable, "upgrading" between the two won't be
    seamless. Hell, many older games (3-4+ years) even have problems with ATI
    cards.

    You can get this now. Just go down to Best Buy, buy a PC, and you can
    sign up for PC game rental on Yahoo. You can even hook up to a TV, should
    you so choose.

    I'm still not convinced the Phantom isn't some hoax or scam. "Springtime
    for Hitler", anyone?
     
    magnulus, Jul 29, 2003
    #3
  4. five Guest

    Ken Catchpole wrote:
    | "John Zimmerman" <> wrote in message
    | news:...
    || Found this article..
    ||
    | <SNIP>
    |
    | Thanks for posting.
    | Lots of technical and marketing stuff about which I care little.
    | Nothing about the games that will be available, which is all I care
    | about.

    Well, since Infinium's claims range from 'thousands' to 'infinite' on the
    number of games/applications available, it's more than likely that its back
    catalogue is PC games...it's a PC. It's a PC running Windows XP(e). It's a
    PC.
     
    five, Jul 29, 2003
    #4
  5. Aaron Lawrence, Jul 29, 2003
    #5
  6. Onion Knight Guest

    "John Zimmerman" aka the Infinium labs Usenet flack exposed...

    For a posting history of "John Zimmerman" see:

    http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&
    scoring=d

    or

    http://makeashorterlink.com/?N2AD12C65


    Most recently "John Zimmerman" <> wrote:

    > Found this article..
    >
    > There have been a lot of people that have called the whole thing a
    > hoax, whether it is because of the position of the system or because
    > of the name. The creators say go ahead and speculate but stop
    > laughing.


    <snip>

    >One of the interesting things, Tim Roberts (CEO and founder) noted is...

    <snip>
    ------------------------------^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^--------


    Hmmm... no link to said "article" or credit as to who wrote it.

    So who is infiniumlabs?

    whois -h whois.register.com infiniumlabs.com ...

    <snip boilerplate>

    Organization:
    Steve Foster
    Steve Foster
    5380 Gulf of Mexico Drive
    Longboat Key, FL 34228
    US
    Phone: (877) 482-9585
    Fax..: (877) 482-9585
    Email:


    "John Zimmerman" is posting from 68.56.230.97:

    Trying 68.56.230 at ARIN
    Comcast Cable Communications, Inc. JUMPSTART-1 (NET-68-32-0-0-1)
    68.32.0.0 - 68.63.255.255
    Comcast Cable Communications, Inc. WESTFLORIDA-2 (NET-68-56-0-0-1)
    68.56.0.0 - 68.56.255.255


    That's kind of a coincidence, isn't it?

    I wonder if I can find anything else from out
    there...

    Well, that's kind of funny because the first time I searched for that
    email addy, I got a hit on a website. Then I got distracted and lost the
    page, and subsequent searches didn't find any matches! Damn!

    Okay, how about: http://www.broadbandreports.com/shownews/30273

    See that 7th post from the top by a guy calling himself "twcbinc", from
    the home of Infinium Labs - Longboat Key, FL?

    "I think it would be cool, if it allowed you to puchase any game any
    time you want. I am sick of CD's being scratched by my kids and want a
    system which has educational games for my kids."

    That kind of sounds like another part of that recent "article" posted by
    "John Zimmerman":

    "You'll have CDs that get scratched that will no longer work and you
    have to front the cost to buy the
    same game multiple times... The most frustrating is the titles only appeal
    to the 8-18 year olds and don't offer the genres and title selection which
    appeals to the 3-38 year olds which is 80% of the market today."

    Does anyone else use "twcbinc"?

    http://www.timr.tv/project_photos.htm

    Why, it's TIMOTHY MUNRO ROBERTS founder and CEO of Infinium Labs!
    511 Harbor Gate Way, Longboat Key, FL 34228
    (941) 383-8721 / Fax (941) 383-9891
    Cell (941) 685-5089
    MSN Messenger SN: twcbinc
    Mobile Email Address:


    An MSN messenger name can usually be appended to an @hotmail.com address
    can't it?

    Also, check out the email addy Mr. Roberts lists at
    http://www.timr.tv -

    Maybe someone wouldn't mind letting Tim know that there's more honest
    ways to generate buzz for his upcoming console...

    And if you're thinking about taking down your projects page Timmy, I
    already "wgot" it and I'll be happy to mirror it for you. Now please pack
    up your John Zimmerman sock puppet and go home!

    --
    OK




    -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
    http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
    -----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----
     
    Onion Knight, Jul 29, 2003
    #6
  7. slapkicksy Guest

    The Phantom can kiss my arse.
     
    slapkicksy, Jul 29, 2003
    #7
  8. Geez...not the Phantom again ;0)

    Load of horse-shit, and something that already exists...it's called PC
    gaming. **** that...upgrading crap all the time, finding things that are not
    compatable with one another, and a quite strict subscription service for the
    games on it. No thanks, I will take my "toy" console that I spent a couple
    hundred on over this likely over-priced piece of crap any day.


    in article , John Zimmerman
    at wrote on 7/28/03 10:44 PM:

    > Found this article..
    >
    > There have been a lot of people that have called the whole thing a
    > hoax, whether it is because of the position of the system or because
    > of the name. The creators say go ahead and speculate but stop
    > laughing. The Phantom is a real thing and looks to revolutionize video
    > gaming providing real-time game purchasing, game rental and try before
    > you buy all on demand.
    >
    > "Being a gamer, there is no two ways about it," says Dale Eldridge,
    > Vice President of Infinium Labs. "You'll have CDs that get scratched
    > that will no longer work and you have to front the cost to buy the
    > same game multiple times. And you buy a system, the developer upgrades
    > it, you can't play the game you have before on the same proprietary
    > console, and then your little cheap $200 consumer item breaks because
    > it is only a toy. The most frustrating is the titles only appeal to
    > the 8-18 year olds and don't offer the genres and title selection
    > which appeals to the 3-38 year olds which is 80% of the market today.
    > It's frustrating. So what we've designed is a real machine with a
    > hassle free service allowing you a infinite selection of gaming
    > content. You no longer have to spend your time as an IT person. It can
    > be in your living room, it can be easy to use, it is built for the
    > hardcore horsepower driven gamer, it can appeal to all audiences, it
    > can be convenient, and it can be FUN!'"
    >
    > One of the interesting things, Tim Roberts (CEO and founder) noted is
    > that other consoles are just PC's with Proprietary Operating Systems
    > which actually raise the cost of games, since they have to be
    > re-written to adapt to these consoles. He also stated that the
    > proprietary consoles have "built themselves into a box"; this means
    > that they have to purchase huge volumes of parts in order to achieve
    > the economies of scale. This also ties them into the same technology
    > for 5 years since they have produced tied up enormous amounts of there
    > cash and don't want to obsolete themselves.
    >
    > Roberts explained that the Beta tester requests were very successful.
    > With over 28k applications on file to date we have collected some very
    > resourceful testers which can help fine tune our product. We are
    > planning on distributing emails to the 300 lucky testers on Sept 15th
    > which will announce who has been selected. We will then shift gears
    > and open beta tester requests for Europe, Asia, Mexico and Australia,
    > as well as others. We are looking for the best, the elite hard core
    > gamers and also the top hackers and crackers out there. We will be
    > sending the United States and Canada beta testers consoles to them on
    > Sept 15th. The beta testers will need to sign an agreement to provide
    > 1 year worth of testing for us and commit to provide feed back to us
    > regarding the service. They will be allowed to keep the equipment and
    > games but will have to pay there own broadband access fees. We will be
    > looking for 300 testers in each country, not just the United States
    > and Canada.
    >
    > We plan to launch our service in Europe and Asia in Q1 2005.
    >
    > Unlike the other current-generation systems on the market today, all
    > costing under 200 bucks, the Phantom looks to do something that no
    > other video gaming console has done before. The Phantom is the most
    > robust, upgradeable console which provides a better entertainment
    > package and will drive down the cost of games to the consumers.
    >
    > "The consumer who enters the market earlier is obviously going to pay
    > the price," says Roberts. "The people who bought the first generation
    > of Tivo ended up having to pay a little more. And there are going to
    > be people who will wait thinking that second generation product will
    > be cheaper, faster and better. But our console is upgradeable,
    > provides a refurbish program and also there are people who are willing
    > to come in early and adopt the product and help launch our service. As
    > we build our subscriber base, the consumer monthly service fee goes
    > down offset by our economies of scale. But the most dramatic change to
    > that is when the advertising revenue is achieved; consumers are
    > predicted to spend 7 times more time playing games than watching
    > television over the next 5 years (DFC Intelligence). Gaming is the
    > number one, the hottest sector in the world right now, outselling
    > movies and music. And because of that, as the subscriber base builds
    > and the advertising revenue comes in, we will drop the price to the
    > consumer. Over time, in the future, we foresee there will be no
    > monthly subscription fee, offset by the advertising revenues and large
    > subscriber base. The basic package will include 100's of games while
    > others are extending there package paying for games on demand and
    > rental." We need the help of the gamers to make this a reality, say
    > Roberts.
    >
    > The folks at Infinium Labs hope to make it where you'll never have to
    > leave your house again to buy another game. All you'll have to do is
    > flip a switch, press a few buttons, and bam, you're in the game.
    >
    > "It's pretty revolutionary to the world to think of a closed, Virtual
    > Private Gaming Network™ or VPGN™, which is a performance based network
    > with 50 terabyte data centers," says Tim Roberts, CEO of Infinium
    > Labs. Interestingly, we are helping to reduce piracy which will
    > advance games allowing developers and publishers to reap more profits
    > to advance technology. Research has shown that for every game sold, 7
    > are pirated and some predict this to become a much larger number.
    > Because of the reduced profits caused from the piracy problem, it
    > holds back the advancements in gaming technology and virtual reality
    > which is against the long term goals of any hardcore gamer.
    >
    > To counteract the threat hackers, Infinium Labs has developed
    > bullet-proof closed network (VPGN™) and security (BLACKNIGHT™) for the
    > system, both digitally and physically through each layer of
    > technology.
    >
    > "We've covered the security pretty well," says Roberts. "It's pretty
    > interesting when you see what we have done. There are actually 8
    > levels of security. And we have recruited hackers from groups like
    > "The Legion of Doom (LOD) who are running layers of our security and
    > others which are just as infamous to help in the other technical areas
    > such as Andrew Huang who runs our console hardware security and is
    > very well known in the mod world for consoles. From the physical
    > security, we do everything from card key access to make sure no one
    > can get into our actual, physical servers, to sniffing all packets
    > through our VPGN™ and running an elite intrusion detection scheme and
    > team"
    >
    > There are a lot of questions about the Phantom. One of those is why
    > Infinium Labs chose to go with an embedded Windows XP system instead
    > of the faster Linux system. "People have asked if we're going to have
    > problems with Microsoft about using XP," explains Roberts. "Actually,
    > we've been working very closely with Microsoft on it. And the other
    > thing is that people have been concerned that XP is not as fast an
    > operating system as Linux. The reason we chose to go with XP embedded
    > is that we have customize that Operating System and are utilizing the
    > XPe Kernel and wrapping our customized gaming OS around it, believe it
    > or not, we have found that it is faster than. There are a lot of
    > things in Windows XPe that we don't need and we are gutting and
    > rewriting the code to our specifications. By the time we're done with
    > it, the system will have our own custom front end which is easy enough
    > for a 3 year old to navigate but advanced enough for any hard core
    > gamers demands. To the average user, they'll never know that it is
    > Windows XPe. The OS right now is in performance tests and loads
    > between 8-15 seconds. So it's very fast when you start the console for
    > the first time and reliable for an always on device."
    >
    > High end consumer electronic purchasers will now be appeased with the
    > built in functionality to implement this component directly into their
    > high end entertainment systems. With Dolby Digital 7.1 capabilities
    > and an extension cable which allows USB devices to be hooked up from
    > afar without dragging the console across the room to optical inputs
    > and all built in video standards including component video. Roberts
    > stated that it helps to be following the advancements with video
    > display technologies which are allowing for higher resolutions to the
    > home entertainment center. We have built this from a hard core gamer
    > perspective with keyboard, mice, joysticks and other accessories which
    > allow for better gaming controls and these come in wireless options.
    > One of the most advanced features of the device is the built in cable
    > modem, DSL or WIFI cards which auto-configure with your broadband last
    > mile providers and eliminate the need and expense to re-wire your home
    > which is one of the biggest challenges the other consoles have faced.
    > Roberts said "we don't really want to be in the console hardware
    > business and in the future you may see we are working with a large
    > company which has enormous scaling capacities as our subscriber base
    > dictates, or we may be a mix of Pay Per View like what Scientific
    > Atlanta is to the cable industry".
    >
    > Here is the back view of the Phantom Console which shows the high end
    > consumer design and ease of connecting to a broadband provider:
    > But ease of use isn't just for the consumers. Infinium Labs has also
    > made it very easy for developers to get their products published on
    > the Phantom.
    >
    > To the publishers, we're just another distributor," says Terry Nagy,
    > EVP of Content Acquisition. "To the current publishers, we're a way
    > for them to make more money because we can eliminate their packaging
    > costs and high retail distribution costs such as inventory and
    > insurance."
    >
    > "For game developers and publishers, it's pretty easy," says Nagy.
    > "When they sign up and are partners with the PhantomNet™ and Infinium
    > Labs™, basically they can self publish games directly to our networks.
    > It also allows the game developers to get immediate feedback. They can
    > pre-release a game; say a multiplayer game, to make sure the game is
    > performing correctly. It's a nice way to get a game out there and get
    > it corrected quickly. And the main draw is that the developers have no
    > costs to get the game published on the network. Basically, we take all
    > the porting costs out of their hands, and we'll actually cover the
    > costs for the port to our system, though the majority of games need no
    > porting since the OS is based on the XPe kernel."
    >
    > One of the problems that Infinium hopes to correct with the Phantom is
    > the shelf life of games. "The bigger problem, when you focus in on it,
    > is that the retail distribution model is broken," explains Roberts.
    > "So when a company like Microsoft goes to figure out what games it is
    > going to distribute, the only games that make sense are the games that
    > are smash hits for them to cover their costs to make any money. Sony
    > and Microsoft don't make money off of the consoles; they make money
    > off the software and accessories. Even though we're eliminating some
    > of their profit centers, the margins that they will make through our
    > delivery centers will be greater because of the reduced distribution
    > costs and longer shelf lives and being able to hold an infinite amount
    > of inventory and also the elimination of piracy adds to there top line
    > revenues.
    >
    > Even though the Phantom looks to be a serious contender in the video
    > game sector of entertainment, there will still be those who doubt. But
    > Infinium Labs looks to try to calm their fears.
    >
    > "Currently, we already have commitments for 5,000 titles to come on
    > our system at launch," says Roberts. "Out of these titles, a lot of
    > people are saying that most of these titles are going to be 5 or 10
    > years old, but surprisingly we are already in discussions and have
    > terms negotiated with several large publishers. And we're not going to
    > get every top title out there, but we know we'll launch with 20 of the
    > top 200 titles at launch, and continue to add those top titles in the
    > months ahead. It's all about money, so the more subscribers we
    > acquire the better the content becomes"
    >
    > "From the architectural viewpoint, we have built billions of dollars
    > worth of infrastructure at former companies," says Roberts. "We were
    > dealing with very high- end clients at these companies such as my
    > former startup "Savvis Communications". We were partners with
    > companies such as Deloitte and Touché. They would bring their clients
    > in to us and we would spend months architecting robust, fault
    > tolerant, and mission critical infrastructure for Fortune 500
    > companies. And when you're talking about online financial services and
    > data that companies are reliant on; they could potentially be out of
    > business if their service goes down, and companies like Savvis provide
    > a way to ensure there is never any downtime. We were the first to
    > offer Service Level Agreements or SLA's in the Tier 1 datacom
    > industry. We know how to build the scalability and reliability and I
    > think the difference in why we're going to be successful is because
    > PhantomNet™ has been built by the guys that know how to build
    > infrastructure, not being built by game developers. "
    >
    > With a 2-3 GHz processor and a 120 gig hard drive, component video,
    > cable modem, RF receiver all built into the system and the best video
    > card on the market, the Phantom looks to make a huge impact on the
    > gaming world.
    >
    > "We are going to do to the gaming industry what mp3.com has done to
    > the music industry, only we have a better mouse trap which eventually
    > will provide movies, music and e-books on demand" says Roberts.
     
    massivegrooves, Jul 29, 2003
    #8
  9. five Guest

    Re: "John Zimmerman" aka the Infinium labs Usenet flack exposed...

    Onion Knight wrote:
    <snip>
    | Does anyone else use "twcbinc"?
    |
    | http://www.timr.tv/project_photos.htm
    |
    | Why, it's TIMOTHY MUNRO ROBERTS founder and CEO of Infinium Labs!
    | 511 Harbor Gate Way, Longboat Key, FL 34228
    | (941) 383-8721 / Fax (941) 383-9891
    | Cell (941) 685-5089
    | MSN Messenger SN: twcbinc
    | Mobile Email Address:
    |
    |
    <snip>
    | Now please pack up your John Zimmerman sock puppet and go home!

    Nice work Columbo ;)

    Just one more thing....
     
    five, Jul 29, 2003
    #9
  10. Doug Jacobs Guest

    In alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 Zackman <> wrote:

    > > consumers are
    > > predicted to spend 7 times more time playing games than watching
    > > television over the next 5 years (DFC Intelligence).


    > Bullshit. Let's see this "intelligence."


    Of all the things to flame this idiot for, this one can actually hold water.

    A friend of mine is in advertising (writes ads for magazines, billboards,
    newspapers) but has seen several studies that all point to sharply declining
    time people 12-25 spend watching TV. Video games and the internet are the
    top two cited reasons for this drop.

    As a gamer (of course you're a gamer, otherwise you wouldn't be here...)
    what would you rather do? Watch TV or play a game?

    Throw in the ever growing number of PVR/TiVo devices, all which only decreases
    the amount of TV you watch (seriously...) and this statement isn't so wacky
    as it first sounds.

    The rest of the article, not to mention the company/product itself, on the
    other hand...

    > > With a 2-3 GHz processor and a 120 gig hard drive, component video,
    > > cable modem, RF receiver all built into the system and the best video
    > > card on the market, the Phantom looks to make a huge impact on the
    > > gaming world.


    > Until the PS3 and Xbox2 come out a year or so later and make it obsolete.


    The thing is already obsolete, and will be even more obsolete when it
    hits the market - assuming it *ever* hits the market. I can't think of
    anyone who would be interested in this thing.
     
    Doug Jacobs, Jul 30, 2003
    #10
  11. Zackman Guest

    "Doug Jacobs" <> wrote:
    >
    > As a gamer (of course you're a gamer, otherwise you wouldn't be here...)
    > what would you rather do? Watch TV or play a game?


    I have absolutely no doubt that gaming is taking eyeballs away from TV. But
    consoles still have nowhere near the penetration in homes as TVs, which are
    in -- what is it -- 92% of U.S. households? To say that for every hour of TV
    viewing there will be *seven hours* of video game playing is a ludicrous
    figure that was clearly pulled out of his ass. Which should make more room
    for the console itself up there.

    > The thing is already obsolete, and will be even more obsolete when it
    > hits the market - assuming it *ever* hits the market. I can't think of
    > anyone who would be interested in this thing.


    No doubt. Is it a scam? Is it a tax shelter? Is it just the worst idea in
    video gaming history? Time will tell.

    -Z-
     
    Zackman, Jul 30, 2003
    #11
  12. RickB Guest

    "Doug Jacobs" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > In alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 Zackman

    <> wrote:
    >
    > > > consumers are
    > > > predicted to spend 7 times more time playing games than watching
    > > > television over the next 5 years (DFC Intelligence).

    >
    > > Bullshit. Let's see this "intelligence."

    >
    > Of all the things to flame this idiot for, this one can actually hold

    water.
    >
    > A friend of mine is in advertising (writes ads for magazines, billboards,
    > newspapers) but has seen several studies that all point to sharply

    declining
    > time people 12-25 spend watching TV. Video games and the internet are the
    > top two cited reasons for this drop.
    >
    > As a gamer (of course you're a gamer, otherwise you wouldn't be here...)
    > what would you rather do? Watch TV or play a game?
    >
    > Throw in the ever growing number of PVR/TiVo devices, all which only

    decreases
    > the amount of TV you watch (seriously...) and this statement isn't so

    wacky
    > as it first sounds.
    >


    I totally disagree on this statement. Having Tivo has actually made/allowed
    me to watch *more* TV than I normally did before having Tivo. I now get to
    watch TV shows that I couldn't before due to them being on while I was at
    work, during the summer softball league, and weekends where social events,
    family get toghethers and nights out with the wife would normally cause me
    to miss TV shows. Now with Tivo I can watch them anytime.

    RickB



    > The rest of the article, not to mention the company/product itself, on the
    > other hand...
    >
    > > > With a 2-3 GHz processor and a 120 gig hard drive, component video,
    > > > cable modem, RF receiver all built into the system and the best video
    > > > card on the market, the Phantom looks to make a huge impact on the
    > > > gaming world.

    >
    > > Until the PS3 and Xbox2 come out a year or so later and make it

    obsolete.
    >
    > The thing is already obsolete, and will be even more obsolete when it
    > hits the market - assuming it *ever* hits the market. I can't think of
    > anyone who would be interested in this thing.
    >
    >
     
    RickB, Jul 30, 2003
    #12
  13. magnulus Guest

    "Zackman" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > "Doug Jacobs" <> wrote:
    > >
    > > As a gamer (of course you're a gamer, otherwise you wouldn't be here...)
    > > what would you rather do? Watch TV or play a game?

    >
    > I have absolutely no doubt that gaming is taking eyeballs away from TV.

    But
    > consoles still have nowhere near the penetration in homes as TVs, which

    are
    > in -- what is it -- 92% of U.S. households? To say that for every hour of

    TV
    > viewing there will be *seven hours* of video game playing is a ludicrous
    > figure that was clearly pulled out of his ass. Which should make more room
    > for the console itself up there.
    >


    Computers have higher penetration rate than consoles. Home computer
    penetration is now well over 70 percent. Consoles only have about 35-40
    percent penetration of households. What's more , a recent market study has
    found homes with PC's are less likely to purchase a gaming console in the
    past year or two than those without a PC. So people may spend more time
    gaming, just not necessarily on a console.

    Consoles have less appeal to women, for instance, whereas a majority of PC
    gamers are female.

    > No doubt. Is it a scam? Is it a tax shelter? Is it just the worst idea in
    > video gaming history? Time will tell.
    >


    It's a flop, that much we can agree on. It's a PC in a funny box, and it
    will have a PC price tag to boot. Rent-to-play online games haven't been
    big successes in the past, and Phantom will be no different. I for one
    would like to see these idiots get their pants sued off for trying to
    "emulate" stuff and sell it as "content".
     
    magnulus, Jul 30, 2003
    #13
  14. RickB Guest

    "Kevin Sullivan" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Tue, 29 Jul 2003 04:15:16 GMT, "RickB" <>
    > wrote:
    >
    > <snip>
    > >> Roberts explained that the Beta tester requests were very successful.
    > >> With over 28k applications on file to date we have collected some very
    > >> resourceful testers which can help fine tune our product. We are
    > >> planning on distributing emails to the 300 lucky testers on Sept 15th
    > >> which will announce who has been selected. We will then shift gears
    > >> and open beta tester requests for Europe, Asia, Mexico and Australia,
    > >> as well as others. We are looking for the best, the elite hard core
    > >> gamers and also the top hackers and crackers out there. We will be
    > >> sending the United States and Canada beta testers consoles to them on
    > >> Sept 15th. The beta testers will need to sign an agreement to provide
    > >> 1 year worth of testing for us and commit to provide feed back to us
    > >> regarding the service. They will be allowed to keep the equipment and
    > >> games but will have to pay there own broadband access fees. We will be
    > >> looking for 300 testers in each country, not just the United States
    > >> and Canada.
    > >>

    > >
    > >300 beta testers in each country get to play what for free???
    > >
    > >> We plan to launch our service in Europe and Asia in Q1 2005.
    > >>

    > >So the beta testers get to play the new games until 2005, then the

    general
    > >public gets what?? Year old games to play?

    >
    > No, they're talking about Europe/Asia. The beta test starts in the US
    > this fall but the public will be able to order systems by the end of
    > the year. Beta testers won't have the system for a year before
    > everyone else.
    >


    Kevin Sullivan, you really need to meet up with John Zimmerman and compare
    stories here because you both sound crazed idiots.

    And how exactly do you know this information, care to elaborate??


    > >> Unlike the other current-generation systems on the market today, all
    > >> costing under 200 bucks, the Phantom looks to do something that no
    > >> other video gaming console has done before. The Phantom is the most
    > >> robust, upgradeable console which provides a better entertainment
    > >> package and will drive down the cost of games to the consumers.
    > >>

    > >
    > >I think I already have one of these, yes, yes I do, it's called a

    computer.
    > >See, I'm typing this message on it right now. Damn, why didn't I think of
    > >this first.

    >
    > Not quite. The Phantom is a lot more than just a PC if it delivers on
    > what they are promising. There is nothing out there like their content
    > delivery system and having a set top box is a lot more attractive to
    > people than a PC.


    So, how exactly is it "a lot more than just a PC"?? And how do you know what
    their content delivery system is like?? Don't tell me you are John Zimmerman
    in disguise you sneaky fella.

    >
    > >> "The consumer who enters the market earlier is obviously going to pay
    > >> the price," says Roberts.

    > >
    > >I bet they are. How many times will the beta testers have to upgrade the
    > >machines to work properly with the service a year and half later when it

    is
    > >officially released.

    >
    > It will be officially released only a few months after the beta test
    > starts. Testing is going to run concurrently. Since the system is
    > upgradable they can implement suggestions from testers along the way.


    So the gaming public gets to work all the bugs out that crop up after the
    beta testers are done, but don't worry, it'll be fixed along the way.
    Riiiigggghhhhtttt!! Say I'm playing a game and come across a bug that
    doesn't allow me to progress any further, do I simply 'push a button' and
    the bug is sent to the game developers who are waiting nearby to fix my bug
    and allow me to continue with my game??? HAHAHA. Now this sounds like a load
    of BS to me.

    >
    > Besides, the beta units will be provided for free and it sounds like
    > the service will be free as well. You just have to agree to provide
    > feedback to them for a year.
    >


    So while the general public gets to play the games without marketing hassles
    of having to give feedback, the beta testers get strapped down with surveys
    to complete just because they get the brick early?? Crap I say, Crap.

    >
    > >>
    > >> The folks at Infinium Labs hope to make it where you'll never have to
    > >> leave your house again to buy another game. All you'll have to do is
    > >> flip a switch, press a few buttons, and bam, you're in the game.
    > >>

    > >
    > >You see, with my computer I don't have to leave the house now to buy a

    game,
    > >who would have thunk it?! I don't have to flip a switch or press a few
    > >buttons now, just a few keystrokes and clicks of my mouse, which sounds
    > >easier??

    >
    > You mean ordering a game from a website and waiting a week for it to
    > arrive as opposed to just selecting it from the Phantom service (which
    > will already have your credit card info)?
    >


    Where do you live?? 1984??? I can order a game this morning on my PC and
    it could be here tomorrow morning. Are you really that dense?? And why would
    the Phantom service need my credit card open for charges?? Sounds like an
    invitation for unauthorized charges to me.

    >
    > >> "It's pretty revolutionary to the world to think of a closed, Virtual
    > >> Private Gaming NetworkT or VPGNT, which is a performance based network
    > >> with 50 terabyte data centers," says Tim Roberts, CEO of Infinium
    > >> Labs. Interestingly, we are helping to reduce piracy which will
    > >> advance games allowing developers and publishers to reap more profits
    > >> to advance technology. Research has shown that for every game sold, 7
    > >> are pirated and some predict this to become a much larger number.
    > >> Because of the reduced profits caused from the piracy problem, it
    > >> holds back the advancements in gaming technology and virtual reality
    > >> which is against the long term goals of any hardcore gamer.

    > >
    > > So this machine will provide virtual reality also?? Damn, maybe these
    > >people need to join up with the RIAA to stop music piracy.

    >
    > Do you really have the reading comprehension of a 7 year old? :)


    What John Zimmerman??? err.... I mean Kevin Sullivan. LOL. Time to learn
    that corporate America doesn't do their advertising/marketing is a Usenet
    newsgroup without prices/pictures or a decent level of common sense.
    Dumbass.

    RickB
     
    RickB, Jul 30, 2003
    #14
  15. On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 12:09:27 GMT, "RickB" <>
    wrote:
    <snip>
    >> >So the beta testers get to play the new games until 2005, then the

    >general
    >> >public gets what?? Year old games to play?

    >>
    >> No, they're talking about Europe/Asia. The beta test starts in the US
    >> this fall but the public will be able to order systems by the end of
    >> the year. Beta testers won't have the system for a year before
    >> everyone else.
    >>

    >
    >Kevin Sullivan, you really need to meet up with John Zimmerman and compare
    >stories here because you both sound crazed idiots.
    >
    >And how exactly do you know this information, care to elaborate??


    http://www.gamespot.com/all/news/news_6072533.html


    >
    >> >> Unlike the other current-generation systems on the market today, all
    >> >> costing under 200 bucks, the Phantom looks to do something that no
    >> >> other video gaming console has done before. The Phantom is the most
    >> >> robust, upgradeable console which provides a better entertainment
    >> >> package and will drive down the cost of games to the consumers.
    >> >>
    >> >
    >> >I think I already have one of these, yes, yes I do, it's called a

    >computer.
    >> >See, I'm typing this message on it right now. Damn, why didn't I think of
    >> >this first.

    >>
    >> Not quite. The Phantom is a lot more than just a PC if it delivers on
    >> what they are promising. There is nothing out there like their content
    >> delivery system and having a set top box is a lot more attractive to
    >> people than a PC.

    >
    >So, how exactly is it "a lot more than just a PC"?? And how do you know what
    >their content delivery system is like?? Don't tell me you are John Zimmerman
    >in disguise you sneaky fella.


    For starters it'll be a lot cheaper than a PC, it'll be easier to run
    games on, the service will let you download games instantly. It may
    not be something you're interested in but you need to look at it from
    the mass market standpoint.

    I have no interest in the system either but that's no reason to
    criticize every little thing about it and make stuff up as you go
    along.


    >> >> "The consumer who enters the market earlier is obviously going to pay
    >> >> the price," says Roberts.
    >> >
    >> >I bet they are. How many times will the beta testers have to upgrade the
    >> >machines to work properly with the service a year and half later when it

    >is
    >> >officially released.

    >>
    >> It will be officially released only a few months after the beta test
    >> starts. Testing is going to run concurrently. Since the system is
    >> upgradable they can implement suggestions from testers along the way.

    >
    >So the gaming public gets to work all the bugs out that crop up after the
    >beta testers are done, but don't worry, it'll be fixed along the way.
    >Riiiigggghhhhtttt!! Say I'm playing a game and come across a bug that
    >doesn't allow me to progress any further, do I simply 'push a button' and
    >the bug is sent to the game developers who are waiting nearby to fix my bug
    >and allow me to continue with my game??? HAHAHA. Now this sounds like a load
    >of BS to me.


    I wasn't talking about bugs. Beta testers will give feedback on how
    the service works and what could be better. Bugs and crap like that
    are hammered out by paid QA people.

    >>
    >> Besides, the beta units will be provided for free and it sounds like
    >> the service will be free as well. You just have to agree to provide
    >> feedback to them for a year.
    >>

    >
    >So while the general public gets to play the games without marketing hassles
    >of having to give feedback, the beta testers get strapped down with surveys
    >to complete just because they get the brick early?? Crap I say, Crap.



    Yes and beta testers get their multi-hundred dollar systems and
    service for free. That sounds like crap to you? They volunteer for it,
    it's not like they're forced into it. Thousands of people signed up to
    beta test Xbox Live and they had to pay $50 for it. I don't remember
    anyone whining about that.

    >>
    >> >>
    >> >> The folks at Infinium Labs hope to make it where you'll never have to
    >> >> leave your house again to buy another game. All you'll have to do is
    >> >> flip a switch, press a few buttons, and bam, you're in the game.
    >> >>
    >> >
    >> >You see, with my computer I don't have to leave the house now to buy a

    >game,
    >> >who would have thunk it?! I don't have to flip a switch or press a few
    >> >buttons now, just a few keystrokes and clicks of my mouse, which sounds
    >> >easier??

    >>
    >> You mean ordering a game from a website and waiting a week for it to
    >> arrive as opposed to just selecting it from the Phantom service (which
    >> will already have your credit card info)?
    >>

    >
    >Where do you live?? 1984??? I can order a game this morning on my PC and
    >it could be here tomorrow morning. Are you really that dense?? And why would
    >the Phantom service need my credit card open for charges?? Sounds like an
    >invitation for unauthorized charges to me.


    No, I live in 2003 where it costs over $10 to have something shipped
    overnight.

    Let's see...pay $30-$40 for a game and get it right now or pay $50 for
    a game and $10+ shipping on top of that and get it tomorrow.

    And are *you* dense? The Phantom would need your credit card info to
    bill you for monthly service and for premium charges, just like Xbox
    Live, which again, no one seems to have a problem with.


    >>
    >> >> "It's pretty revolutionary to the world to think of a closed, Virtual
    >> >> Private Gaming NetworkT or VPGNT, which is a performance based network
    >> >> with 50 terabyte data centers," says Tim Roberts, CEO of Infinium
    >> >> Labs. Interestingly, we are helping to reduce piracy which will
    >> >> advance games allowing developers and publishers to reap more profits
    >> >> to advance technology. Research has shown that for every game sold, 7
    >> >> are pirated and some predict this to become a much larger number.
    >> >> Because of the reduced profits caused from the piracy problem, it
    >> >> holds back the advancements in gaming technology and virtual reality
    >> >> which is against the long term goals of any hardcore gamer.
    >> >
    >> > So this machine will provide virtual reality also?? Damn, maybe these
    >> >people need to join up with the RIAA to stop music piracy.

    >>
    >> Do you really have the reading comprehension of a 7 year old? :)

    >
    >What John Zimmerman??? err.... I mean Kevin Sullivan. LOL. Time to learn
    >that corporate America doesn't do their advertising/marketing is a Usenet
    >newsgroup without prices/pictures or a decent level of common sense.
    >Dumbass.
    >
    >RickB
    >


    I couldn't give a rat's ass about the Phantom but if you're going to
    citicize something, at least make some valid points. THAT is what
    USENET is for.
     
    Kevin Sullivan, Jul 30, 2003
    #15
  16. T.N.O Guest

    "Zackman" wrote
    | It's just another
    | bullshit statistic being spouted by these dumbasses.

    you know that 90% of statistics are made up on the spot don't you...

    :)
     
    T.N.O, Jul 31, 2003
    #16
  17. Zackman Guest

    "magnulus" <> wrote>:

    > So people may spend more time
    > gaming, just not necessarily on a console.


    Even so, not seven times more. Seven times! That means for every hour one
    person watches TV, there are seven hours worth of videogames being played. I
    seem to recall reading a stat that said the average household's TV is
    watched three to four hours a day. No matter how many hardcore gamers you
    have playing games six hours a night or how big the market for game consoles
    and PC gaming becomes (currently most PC owners use their machines for Net
    access more often than gaming), it's never going to equal seven times the
    amount of TV watching. Not in five years, no chance. It's just another
    bullshit statistic being spouted by these dumbasses.

    -Z-
     
    Zackman, Jul 31, 2003
    #17
  18. Baldman Guest

    Bah, 65% of people with buck teeth will disagree with that...

    On Thu, 31 Jul 2003 21:39:48 +1200, "T.N.O" <> wrote:

    >"Zackman" wrote
    >| It's just another
    >| bullshit statistic being spouted by these dumbasses.
    >
    >you know that 90% of statistics are made up on the spot don't you...
    >
    >:)
    >
    >
     
    Baldman, Aug 1, 2003
    #18
  19. Doug Jacobs Guest

    In alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 Kevin Sullivan <> wrote:

    > For starters it'll be a lot cheaper than a PC, it'll be easier to run
    > games on, the service will let you download games instantly. It may
    > not be something you're interested in but you need to look at it from
    > the mass market standpoint.


    It's the whole "download games instantly" that's got me wondering... If
    we're talking your typical PC game, that's a lot of data. I've seen
    installs range from 300mb to over 2GB. You (and Phantom) are telling me I
    can download/install games like these?

    Granted, older PC games won't be as large, and if by some chance, Phantom
    managed to figure out lawyer limbo and can legally distribute ROM images,
    turning the Phantom into a set-top MAME console, then this is certainly
    possible...but is it business-worthy? Are folks really going to want to
    spend money so they can play games that are potentially older than they
    are?

    It just doesn't add up.

    The "DisCover" console I heard about on Slashdot last week makes slightly
    more sense. It's literally just a small formfactor PC with, supposedly,
    some extra software to make game installation/configuration much easier.
    You still have to buy the games from the store, and stick the CD in the
    slot. Essentially, it's an attempt to consolize the PC.

    Of course, I don't know how playable any games are going to considering
    DisCover's website showed pictures of what appeared to essentially be SNES
    controllers connected to this thing... And there's still the issue that
    the resolution of your average TV is something like 4x SMALLER than what
    most modern games support as a minimum (I think DOOM2 was about the last
    FPS to support anything less than 480x600...) meaning that at best, games
    will look really horrible.
     
    Doug Jacobs, Aug 1, 2003
    #19
  20. Doug Jacobs Guest

    In alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 Zackman <> wrote:
    > "Doug Jacobs" <> wrote:
    > >
    > > As a gamer (of course you're a gamer, otherwise you wouldn't be here...)
    > > what would you rather do? Watch TV or play a game?


    > I have absolutely no doubt that gaming is taking eyeballs away from TV. But
    > consoles still have nowhere near the penetration in homes as TVs, which are
    > in -- what is it -- 92% of U.S. households? To say that for every hour of TV
    > viewing there will be *seven hours* of video game playing is a ludicrous
    > figure that was clearly pulled out of his ass. Which should make more room
    > for the console itself up there.


    Maybe now, but who knows what will happen in the next few years.

    He was citing a study which probably compared the gaming habits between
    now and the past in an attempt to come up with a trend.

    You have to admit, there are more consoles in homes now than there have
    been from previous generations. Whether or not we'll see another huge
    leap in the next generation has yet to be seen.

    As for 7 hours gaming vs. 1 hour of TV, I don't think we'll that in 5
    years. More like 10 years. By that time, we'll have a whole new
    generation in their 20s who were basically raised with a Playstation or
    Game Boy, and now have gobs of expendable income at their fingertips.
     
    Doug Jacobs, Aug 1, 2003
    #20
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