Forwarding email header information

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Matty F, Jan 5, 2011.

  1. Matty F

    Matty F Guest

    If person B using Outlook Express 6.0 receives an email from person A
    and "Forwards" the email to me, why is the header information (e.g.
    the IP number) from person A not in the header of the email that I
    receive?
    Isn't that the whole point of forwarding and headers, that the IP
    addresses of the chain of emails can be traced?

    If it doesn't work that way (god knows why not), how can person B send
    me the header data of person A?
     
    Matty F, Jan 5, 2011
    #1
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  2. Matty F

    Dave Doe Guest

    In article <b5379bf9-a98e-4a28-ab10-9bca65c39de7
    @r16g2000prh.googlegroups.com>, , Matty F says...
    >
    > If person B using Outlook Express 6.0 receives an email from person A
    > and "Forwards" the email to me, why is the header information (e.g.
    > the IP number) from person A not in the header of the email that I
    > receive?
    > Isn't that the whole point of forwarding and headers, that the IP
    > addresses of the chain of emails can be traced?
    >
    > If it doesn't work that way (god knows why not), how can person B send
    > me the header data of person A?


    Yer correct, it *doesn't* work that way. A forward just copies the text
    from the email really. It saves copy n' pasting :)

    If you want to forward the headers, copy them and paste them - or, if
    you want to forward the email in it's entirety, one way that normally
    works on most email clients (I think it works in OE) is to:
    * create a new email
    * drag n' drop the email you want to foward into the new email (it
    creates an attachment (which is the email in it's entirety).
    * and then send it on

    Alternatively, I think in OE you can also: create a new email, and then
    "Insert" (menu) the email you want to forward (in it's entirety).

    --
    Duncan.
     
    Dave Doe, Jan 5, 2011
    #2
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  3. Matty F

    Matty F Guest

    On Jan 5, 11:46 pm, Dave Doe <> wrote:
    > In article <b5379bf9-a98e-4a28-ab10-9bca65c39de7
    > @r16g2000prh.googlegroups.com>, , Matty F says...
    >
    >
    >
    > > If person B using Outlook Express 6.0 receives an email from person A
    > > and "Forwards" the email to me, why is the header information (e.g.
    > > the IP number) from person A not in the header of the email that I
    > > receive?
    > > Isn't that the whole point of forwarding and headers, that the IP
    > > addresses of the chain of emails can be traced?

    >
    > > If it doesn't work that way (god knows why not), how can person B send
    > > me the header data of person A?

    >
    > Yer correct, it *doesn't* work that way. A forward just copies the text
    > from the email really. It saves copy n' pasting :)
    >
    > If you want to forward the headers, copy them and paste them - or, if
    > you want to forward the email in it's entirety, one way that normally
    > works on most email clients (I think it works in OE) is to:
    > * create a new email
    > * drag n' drop the email you want to foward into the new email (it
    > creates an attachment (which is the email in it's entirety).
    > * and then send it on
    >
    > Alternatively, I think in OE you can also: create a new email, and then
    > "Insert" (menu) the email you want to forward (in it's entirety).


    I'm using Eudora, and it does appear to copy the header data with a
    simple Forward.
    Unforunately Person B is probably incapable of doing even a copy and
    paste.
     
    Matty F, Jan 5, 2011
    #3
  4. Matty F

    Dave Doe Guest

    In article <84001d3a-b584-4f19-90a1-cab5dcd68619
    @j32g2000prh.googlegroups.com>, , Matty F says...
    >
    > On Jan 5, 11:46 pm, Dave Doe <> wrote:
    > > In article <b5379bf9-a98e-4a28-ab10-9bca65c39de7
    > > @r16g2000prh.googlegroups.com>, , Matty F says...
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > > If person B using Outlook Express 6.0 receives an email from person A
    > > > and "Forwards" the email to me, why is the header information (e.g.
    > > > the IP number) from person A not in the header of the email that I
    > > > receive?
    > > > Isn't that the whole point of forwarding and headers, that the IP
    > > > addresses of the chain of emails can be traced?

    > >
    > > > If it doesn't work that way (god knows why not), how can person B send
    > > > me the header data of person A?

    > >
    > > Yer correct, it *doesn't* work that way. A forward just copies the text
    > > from the email really. It saves copy n' pasting :)
    > >
    > > If you want to forward the headers, copy them and paste them - or, if
    > > you want to forward the email in it's entirety, one way that normally
    > > works on most email clients (I think it works in OE) is to:
    > > * create a new email
    > > * drag n' drop the email you want to foward into the new email (it
    > > creates an attachment (which is the email in it's entirety).
    > > * and then send it on
    > >
    > > Alternatively, I think in OE you can also: create a new email, and then
    > > "Insert" (menu) the email you want to forward (in it's entirety).

    >
    > I'm using Eudora, and it does appear to copy the header data with a
    > simple Forward.
    > Unforunately Person B is probably incapable of doing even a copy and
    > paste.


    OK, well maybe they can drag n' drop the email you want them to forward
    into a new email and send it to you. And maybe not :)

    --
    Duncan.
     
    Dave Doe, Jan 5, 2011
    #4
  5. Matty F

    Matty F Guest

    On Jan 6, 7:47 am, EMB <> wrote:
    > On 5/01/2011 11:32 p.m., Matty F wrote:> If person B using Outlook Express 6.0 receives an email from person A
    > > and "Forwards" the email to me, why is the header information (e.g.
    > > the IP number) from person A not in the header of the email that I
    > > receive?
    > > Isn't that the whole point of forwarding and headers, that the IP
    > > addresses of the chain of emails can be traced?

    >
    > > If it doesn't work that way (god knows why not), how can person B send
    > > me the header data of person A?

    >
    > As Duncan says elsewhere, what you are seeing is normal and correct. I
    > haven't got a copy of OE to check (evil bloody app that it is), but I
    > think you can right click and 'Forward as attachment' on the original
    > message, which should send it intact (with all headers etc) as an
    > attachment to the new message.
    >
    > http://email.about.com/cs/oetipstricks/qt/et070503.htmsheds some light.


    Well that (allegedly) didn't work.
    I've suggested copy and paste but (allegedly) OE won't allow the paste
    into an email.
    I suggested pasting into Word but person B doesn't have Word, and has
    not heard of Wordpad.
     
    Matty F, Jan 5, 2011
    #5
  6. On Jan 6, 10:18 am, Matty F <> wrote:
    > On Jan 6, 7:47 am, EMB <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > > On 5/01/2011 11:32 p.m., Matty F wrote:> If person B using Outlook Express 6.0 receives an email from person A
    > > > and "Forwards" the email to me, why is the header information (e.g.
    > > > the IP number)  from person A not in the header of the email that I
    > > > receive?
    > > > Isn't that the whole point of forwarding and headers, that the IP
    > > > addresses of the chain of emails can be traced?

    >
    > > > If it doesn't work that way (god knows why not), how can person B send
    > > > me the header data of person A?

    >
    > > As Duncan says elsewhere, what you are seeing is normal and correct.  I
    > > haven't got a copy of OE to check (evil bloody app that it is), but I
    > > think you can right click and 'Forward as attachment' on the original
    > > message, which should send it intact (with all headers etc) as an
    > > attachment to the new message.

    >
    > >http://email.about.com/cs/oetipstricks/qt/et070503.htmshedssome light.

    >
    > Well that (allegedly) didn't work.
    > I've suggested copy and paste but (allegedly) OE won't allow the paste
    > into an email.
    > I suggested pasting into Word but person B doesn't have Word, and has
    > not heard of Wordpad.- Hide quoted text -
    >
    > - Show quoted text -


    OE does allow pasting, sounds like a PEBKAC problem
     
    Nathan Mercer, Jan 5, 2011
    #6
  7. Matty F

    Matty F Guest

    On Jan 6, 11:12 am, Nathan Mercer <> wrote:

    > OE does allow pasting, sounds like a PEBKAC problem


    I am surprised by the number of people who have not discovered how to
    copy and paste, and what is happening when that is done.
    Some people never seem to get it, and they hold down important jobs.
    I think it's Microsoft's fault, for trying to hide what is happening
    in a machine.

    However the whole email system appears to be crap and should be
    redesigned to allow for all the problems that we now know about, like
    spam and terrorists and phishing.
    In the 1970s I used a rather nice system to send messages around NZ.
    I could tell the instant the message was received. I could send a
    message to a hundred people and tell who had received it.
     
    Matty F, Jan 5, 2011
    #7
  8. Matty F

    Richard Guest

    On 6/01/2011 11:23 a.m., Matty F wrote:
    > On Jan 6, 11:12 am, Nathan Mercer<> wrote:
    >
    >> OE does allow pasting, sounds like a PEBKAC problem

    >
    > I am surprised by the number of people who have not discovered how to
    > copy and paste, and what is happening when that is done.
    > Some people never seem to get it, and they hold down important jobs.
    > I think it's Microsoft's fault, for trying to hide what is happening
    > in a machine.
    >
    > However the whole email system appears to be crap and should be
    > redesigned to allow for all the problems that we now know about, like
    > spam and terrorists and phishing.
    > In the 1970s I used a rather nice system to send messages around NZ.
    > I could tell the instant the message was received. I could send a
    > message to a hundred people and tell who had received it.


    That is exactly what google, yahoo, facebook, myspace etc are all trying
    to do, and quite frankly I would rather keep what we have than have
    those clowns close up email to the select group they decide to allow to
    use their services.
     
    Richard, Jan 6, 2011
    #8
  9. Matty F

    Murray Symon Guest

    Matty F wrote:

    > On Jan 6, 11:12 am, Nathan Mercer <> wrote:
    >
    >> OE does allow pasting, sounds like a PEBKAC problem

    >

    [snip]
    >
    > However the whole email system appears to be crap and should be
    > redesigned to allow for all the problems that we now know about, like
    > spam and terrorists and phishing.


    How do we re-design the "email system" to stop terrorism?
    "Terrorist" is a label that is so over used that it is losing its meaning.
     
    Murray Symon, Jan 6, 2011
    #9
  10. Matty F

    Matty F Guest

    On Jan 6, 1:58 pm, Murray Symon <>
    wrote:
    > Matty F wrote:
    > > On Jan 6, 11:12 am, Nathan Mercer <> wrote:

    >
    > >> OE does allow pasting, sounds like a PEBKAC problem

    >
    > [snip]
    >
    > > However the whole email system appears to be crap and should be
    > > redesigned to allow for all the problems that we now know about, like
    > > spam and terrorists and phishing.

    >
    > How do we re-design the "email system" to stop terrorism?
    > "Terrorist" is a label that is so over used that it is losing its meaning.


    Well it would be nice if emails could be tracked from the original
    sender (who could be a bad person such as a terrorist).
    It appears that the current email system is such crap that tracking is
    impossible.
     
    Matty F, Jan 6, 2011
    #10
  11. Matty F

    Enkidu Guest

    On 05/01/11 23:32, Matty F wrote:
    >
    > If person B using Outlook Express 6.0 receives an email from person A
    > and "Forwards" the email to me, why is the header information (e.g.
    > the IP number) from person A not in the header of the email that I
    > receive?
    > Isn't that the whole point of forwarding and headers, that the IP
    > addresses of the chain of emails can be traced?
    >
    > If it doesn't work that way (god knows why not), how can person B send
    > me the header data of person A?
    >

    If you manage to get the headers, that doesn't mean that that will tell
    you anything useful. All the headers apart from the last "Received:"
    header can be faked. Basically.

    Cheers,

    Cliff

    --

    The ends justifies the means - Niccolò di Bernardo dei Machiavelli.

    The end excuses any evil - Sophocles
     
    Enkidu, Jan 6, 2011
    #11
  12. Matty F

    Dave Doe Guest

    In article <4d25898d$>, ,
    Enkidu says...
    >
    > On 05/01/11 23:32, Matty F wrote:
    > >
    > > If person B using Outlook Express 6.0 receives an email from person A
    > > and "Forwards" the email to me, why is the header information (e.g.
    > > the IP number) from person A not in the header of the email that I
    > > receive?
    > > Isn't that the whole point of forwarding and headers, that the IP
    > > addresses of the chain of emails can be traced?
    > >
    > > If it doesn't work that way (god knows why not), how can person B send
    > > me the header data of person A?
    > >

    > If you manage to get the headers, that doesn't mean that that will tell
    > you anything useful. All the headers apart from the last "Received:"
    > header can be faked. Basically.


    Is that info relevant?

    --
    Duncan.
     
    Dave Doe, Jan 6, 2011
    #12
  13. Matty F

    Matty F Guest

    On Jan 6, 10:21 pm, Enkidu <> wrote:
    > On 05/01/11 23:32, Matty F wrote:
    > >> If person B using Outlook Express 6.0 receives an email from person A

    > > and "Forwards" the email to me, why is the header information (e.g.
    > > the IP number) from person A not in the header of the email that I
    > > receive?
    > > Isn't that the whole point of forwarding and headers, that the IP
    > > addresses of the chain of emails can be traced?

    >
    > > If it doesn't work that way (god knows why not), how can person B send
    > > me the header data of person A?

    >
    > If you manage to get the headers, that doesn't mean that that will tell
    > you anything useful. All the headers apart from the last "Received:"
    > header can be faked. Basically.


    Sure, but the person who sent the original email is even more inept at
    technical matters than the person who received it and is trying to
    forward the headers to me.
     
    Matty F, Jan 6, 2011
    #13
  14. Matty F

    Enkidu Guest

    On 07/01/11 10:38, Matty F wrote:
    > On Jan 6, 10:21 pm, Enkidu<> wrote:
    >> On 05/01/11 23:32, Matty F wrote:
    >>>> If person B using Outlook Express 6.0 receives an email from
    >>>> person A
    >>> and "Forwards" the email to me, why is the header information
    >>> (e.g. the IP number) from person A not in the header of the
    >>> email that I receive? Isn't that the whole point of forwarding
    >>> and headers, that the IP addresses of the chain of emails can be
    >>> traced?

    >>
    >>> If it doesn't work that way (god knows why not), how can person B
    >>> send me the header data of person A?

    >>
    >> If you manage to get the headers, that doesn't mean that that will
    >> tell you anything useful. All the headers apart from the last
    >> "Received:" header can be faked. Basically.

    >
    > Sure, but the person who sent the original email is even more inept
    > at technical matters than the person who received it and is trying
    > to forward the headers to me.
    >

    OK, just checking.

    Cheers,

    Cliff

    --

    The ends justifies the means - Niccolò di Bernardo dei Machiavelli.

    The end excuses any evil - Sophocles
     
    Enkidu, Jan 6, 2011
    #14
  15. Matty F

    Dave Taylor Guest

    Enkidu <> wrote in news:4d263764
    @news.actrix.co.nz:

    >> Sure, but the person who sent the original email is even more inept
    >> at technical matters than the person who received it and is trying
    >> to forward the headers to me.
    >>


    Crossloop.com is pretty easy to use to setup between two users.
    They even have video explaining how as the user downloads the free tool.
    Hard to beat that for easy.


    --
    Ciao, Dave
     
    Dave Taylor, Jan 7, 2011
    #15
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