For the Lunix fans here...

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by jack, Jun 23, 2007.

  1. jack

    jack Guest

    jack, Jun 23, 2007
    #1
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  2. jack

    Fred Dagg Guest

    Fred Dagg, Jun 23, 2007
    #2
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  3. jack

    Shane Guest

    jack wrote:

    >
    > Microsoft Claims Vista Is More Secure Than Linux
    >
    >
    > http://www.newsfactor.com/story.xhtml?story_id=112006L6U3DC


    More than a coincidence that your article follows the one I posted showing
    Microsoft is fudging the numbers?

    --
    Q: Why do mathematicians often confuse Christmas and Halloween?
    A: Because Oct 31 = Dec 25.
    Shane, Jun 23, 2007
    #3
  4. jack

    Chris Hope Guest

    Re: For the Linux fans here...

    Fred Dagg wrote:

    > On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 15:22:18 +1200, jack <> exclaimed:
    >>
    >>Microsoft Claims Vista Is More Secure Than Linux
    >>
    >>http://www.newsfactor.com/story.xhtml?story_id=112006L6U3DC

    >
    > Read it and weep, Linux zealots.


    I'm not a zealot, but I don't see a lot to weep about. There are factual
    inaccuracies in the article (for example saying that Red Hat Enterprise
    Linux 4 is the most downloaded GNU/Linux distribution, when it isn't)
    and often a lot of the numbers of vulnerabilities in Linux distros
    comes down to the sheer number of 3rd party applications that ship in
    one. This of course doesn't excuse anything and I would expect better
    of Red Hat to ship their product with so many issues, expecially given
    the long beta periods they usually have. If it was two or three months
    down the track, it would be better comparing RHEL5 with Vista because
    it's also relatively new. I would be interested to know when it gets to
    6 months old how many vulnerabilities it has had and how it has
    compared to Red Hat's previous offerings.

    Some interesting points from the article:

    There were also vulnerability disclosures during Windows Vista's first
    six months that have not yet been addressed by a fix. The NIST rated
    only one of them "high" severity, while four have been rated "medium"
    and 10 have been rated "low."

    ....

    Still, Sutton said he is not ready to declare a winner in this
    long-standing security debate. "It is encouraging to see that thus far
    Vista has faced fewer critical vulnerabilities," he said. "However, six
    months is not a sufficient time frame to pass judgment on the overall
    security of the operating system."

    Sutton also pointed out that Vista has introduced many fundamental
    changes and said it will take some time before researchers have spent
    adequate time testing the new operating system.

    --
    Chris Hope | www.electrictoolbox.com | www.linuxcdmall.com
    Chris Hope, Jun 23, 2007
    #4
  5. jack

    Fred Dagg Guest

    Re: For the Linux fans here...

    On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 16:32:35 +1200, Chris Hope
    <> exclaimed:

    >Still, Sutton said he is not ready to declare a winner in this
    >long-standing security debate. "It is encouraging to see that thus far
    >Vista has faced fewer critical vulnerabilities," he said. "However, six
    >months is not a sufficient time frame to pass judgment on the overall
    >security of the operating system."


    Yawn. Of course he's not going to declare a winner.

    >Sutton also pointed out that Vista has introduced many fundamental
    >changes and said it will take some time before researchers have spent
    >adequate time testing the new operating system.


    That's a copout. Vista's probably the most tested OS there is.
    Fred Dagg, Jun 23, 2007
    #5
  6. jack

    Chris Hope Guest

    Re: For the Linux fans here...

    Fred Dagg wrote:

    > On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 16:32:35 +1200, Chris Hope
    > <> exclaimed:
    >
    >>Still, Sutton said he is not ready to declare a winner in this
    >>long-standing security debate. "It is encouraging to see that thus far
    >>Vista has faced fewer critical vulnerabilities," he said. "However,
    >>six months is not a sufficient time frame to pass judgment on the
    >>overall security of the operating system."

    >
    > Yawn. Of course he's not going to declare a winner.
    >
    >>Sutton also pointed out that Vista has introduced many fundamental
    >>changes and said it will take some time before researchers have spent
    >>adequate time testing the new operating system.

    >
    > That's a copout. Vista's probably the most tested OS there is.


    I was just quoting the article.

    --
    Chris Hope | www.electrictoolbox.com | www.linuxcdmall.com
    Chris Hope, Jun 23, 2007
    #6
  7. jack

    Fred Dagg Guest

    Re: For the Linux fans here...

    On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 16:52:46 +1200, Chris Hope
    <> exclaimed:

    >Fred Dagg wrote:
    >
    >> On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 16:32:35 +1200, Chris Hope
    >> <> exclaimed:
    >>
    >>>Still, Sutton said he is not ready to declare a winner in this
    >>>long-standing security debate. "It is encouraging to see that thus far
    >>>Vista has faced fewer critical vulnerabilities," he said. "However,
    >>>six months is not a sufficient time frame to pass judgment on the
    >>>overall security of the operating system."

    >>
    >> Yawn. Of course he's not going to declare a winner.
    >>
    >>>Sutton also pointed out that Vista has introduced many fundamental
    >>>changes and said it will take some time before researchers have spent
    >>>adequate time testing the new operating system.

    >>
    >> That's a copout. Vista's probably the most tested OS there is.

    >
    >I was just quoting the article.


    Yes, but the article's a copout... ;-)
    Fred Dagg, Jun 23, 2007
    #7
  8. jack

    Chris Hope Guest

    Re: For the Linux fans here...

    Fred Dagg wrote:

    > On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 16:52:46 +1200, Chris Hope
    > <> exclaimed:
    >
    >>Fred Dagg wrote:
    >>
    >>> On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 16:32:35 +1200, Chris Hope
    >>> <> exclaimed:
    >>>
    >>>>Still, Sutton said he is not ready to declare a winner in this
    >>>>long-standing security debate. "It is encouraging to see that thus
    >>>>far Vista has faced fewer critical vulnerabilities," he said.
    >>>>"However, six months is not a sufficient time frame to pass judgment
    >>>>on the overall security of the operating system."
    >>>
    >>> Yawn. Of course he's not going to declare a winner.
    >>>
    >>>>Sutton also pointed out that Vista has introduced many fundamental
    >>>>changes and said it will take some time before researchers have
    >>>>spent adequate time testing the new operating system.
    >>>
    >>> That's a copout. Vista's probably the most tested OS there is.

    >>
    >>I was just quoting the article.

    >
    > Yes, but the article's a copout... ;-)


    And there you were saying read it and weep ;)

    --
    Chris Hope | www.electrictoolbox.com | www.linuxcdmall.com
    Chris Hope, Jun 23, 2007
    #8
  9. jack

    Fred Dagg Guest

    Re: For the Linux fans here...

    On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 17:10:39 +1200, Chris Hope
    <> exclaimed:

    >Fred Dagg wrote:
    >
    >> On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 16:52:46 +1200, Chris Hope
    >> <> exclaimed:
    >>
    >>>Fred Dagg wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 16:32:35 +1200, Chris Hope
    >>>> <> exclaimed:
    >>>>
    >>>>>Still, Sutton said he is not ready to declare a winner in this
    >>>>>long-standing security debate. "It is encouraging to see that thus
    >>>>>far Vista has faced fewer critical vulnerabilities," he said.
    >>>>>"However, six months is not a sufficient time frame to pass judgment
    >>>>>on the overall security of the operating system."
    >>>>
    >>>> Yawn. Of course he's not going to declare a winner.
    >>>>
    >>>>>Sutton also pointed out that Vista has introduced many fundamental
    >>>>>changes and said it will take some time before researchers have
    >>>>>spent adequate time testing the new operating system.
    >>>>
    >>>> That's a copout. Vista's probably the most tested OS there is.
    >>>
    >>>I was just quoting the article.

    >>
    >> Yes, but the article's a copout... ;-)

    >
    >And there you were saying read it and weep ;)


    LOL!!! Excellent... Got me.
    Fred Dagg, Jun 23, 2007
    #9
  10. jack

    E. Scrooge Guest

    Re: For the Linux fans here...

    "Chris Hope" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Fred Dagg wrote:
    >
    >> On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 15:22:18 +1200, jack <> exclaimed:
    >>>
    >>>Microsoft Claims Vista Is More Secure Than Linux
    >>>
    >>>http://www.newsfactor.com/story.xhtml?story_id=112006L6U3DC

    >>
    >> Read it and weep, Linux zealots.

    >
    > I'm not a zealot, but I don't see a lot to weep about. There are factual
    > inaccuracies in the article (for example saying that Red Hat Enterprise
    > Linux 4 is the most downloaded GNU/Linux distribution, when it isn't)
    > and often a lot of the numbers of vulnerabilities in Linux distros
    > comes down to the sheer number of 3rd party applications that ship in
    > one. This of course doesn't excuse anything and I would expect better
    > of Red Hat to ship their product with so many issues, expecially given
    > the long beta periods they usually have. If it was two or three months
    > down the track, it would be better comparing RHEL5 with Vista because
    > it's also relatively new. I would be interested to know when it gets to
    > 6 months old how many vulnerabilities it has had and how it has
    > compared to Red Hat's previous offerings.


    Vista is hardly as new as you think. Early versions for testing purposes
    have been in use for over a year.
    Hardware products don't even bother to provide Linux versions of their
    manuals on CD because the user base is far too small to bother with, and
    besides they can't be bothered buying decent products in the first place as
    they expect everything to be free.

    E. Scrooge
    E. Scrooge, Jun 24, 2007
    #10
  11. jack

    Allistar Guest

    Re: For the Linux fans here...

    *sling wrote:

    >
    > "Chris Hope" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> Fred Dagg wrote:
    >>
    >>> On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 15:22:18 +1200, jack <> exclaimed:
    >>>>
    >>>>Microsoft Claims Vista Is More Secure Than Linux
    >>>>
    >>>>http://www.newsfactor.com/story.xhtml?story_id=112006L6U3DC
    >>>
    >>> Read it and weep, Linux zealots.

    >>
    >> I'm not a zealot, but I don't see a lot to weep about. There are factual
    >> inaccuracies in the article (for example saying that Red Hat Enterprise
    >> Linux 4 is the most downloaded GNU/Linux distribution, when it isn't)
    >> and often a lot of the numbers of vulnerabilities in Linux distros
    >> comes down to the sheer number of 3rd party applications that ship in
    >> one. This of course doesn't excuse anything and I would expect better
    >> of Red Hat to ship their product with so many issues, expecially given
    >> the long beta periods they usually have. If it was two or three months
    >> down the track, it would be better comparing RHEL5 with Vista because
    >> it's also relatively new. I would be interested to know when it gets to
    >> 6 months old how many vulnerabilities it has had and how it has
    >> compared to Red Hat's previous offerings.

    >
    > Vista is hardly as new as you think. Early versions for testing purposes
    > have been in use for over a year.
    > Hardware products don't even bother to provide Linux versions of their
    > manuals on CD because the user base is far too small to bother with, and
    > besides they can't be bothered buying decent products in the first place
    > as they expect everything to be free.


    Don't tar every Linux user with the same brush. Price is the last thing on
    my mind when it come to what operating system to use. Freedom is more
    important.

    > E. Scrooge


    Allistar.
    Allistar, Jun 24, 2007
    #11
  12. jack

    Fred Dagg Guest

    Re: For the Linux fans here...

    On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 16:39:55 +1200, Allistar <> exclaimed:

    >Don't tar every Linux user with the same brush. Price is the last thing on
    >my mind when it come to what operating system to use. Freedom is more
    >important.


    Yes, but what does Freedom *REALLY* mean to the average user?

    Answer: In this context, it means it's free.
    Fred Dagg, Jun 24, 2007
    #12
  13. Re: For the Linux fans here...

    On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 19:45:18 +1200, Fred Dagg wrote:

    >>Don't tar every Linux user with the same brush. Price is the last thing
    >>on my mind when it come to what operating system to use. Freedom is more
    >>important.

    >
    > Yes, but what does Freedom *REALLY* mean to the average user?
    >
    > Answer: In this context, it means it's free.


    Freedom means you are free to use it how you like.


    --
    Jonathan Walker

    "You'll have to excuse me — I have a long
    bath and a short dress to get into."
    Jonathan Walker, Jun 24, 2007
    #13
  14. jack

    E. Scrooge Guest

    Re: For the Linux fans here...

    "Allistar" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > *sling wrote:
    >
    >>
    >> "Chris Hope" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>> Fred Dagg wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 15:22:18 +1200, jack <> exclaimed:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>Microsoft Claims Vista Is More Secure Than Linux
    >>>>>
    >>>>>http://www.newsfactor.com/story.xhtml?story_id=112006L6U3DC
    >>>>
    >>>> Read it and weep, Linux zealots.
    >>>
    >>> I'm not a zealot, but I don't see a lot to weep about. There are factual
    >>> inaccuracies in the article (for example saying that Red Hat Enterprise
    >>> Linux 4 is the most downloaded GNU/Linux distribution, when it isn't)
    >>> and often a lot of the numbers of vulnerabilities in Linux distros
    >>> comes down to the sheer number of 3rd party applications that ship in
    >>> one. This of course doesn't excuse anything and I would expect better
    >>> of Red Hat to ship their product with so many issues, expecially given
    >>> the long beta periods they usually have. If it was two or three months
    >>> down the track, it would be better comparing RHEL5 with Vista because
    >>> it's also relatively new. I would be interested to know when it gets to
    >>> 6 months old how many vulnerabilities it has had and how it has
    >>> compared to Red Hat's previous offerings.

    >>
    >> Vista is hardly as new as you think. Early versions for testing purposes
    >> have been in use for over a year.
    >> Hardware products don't even bother to provide Linux versions of their
    >> manuals on CD because the user base is far too small to bother with, and
    >> besides they can't be bothered buying decent products in the first place
    >> as they expect everything to be free.

    >
    > Don't tar every Linux user with the same brush. Price is the last thing on
    > my mind when it come to what operating system to use. Freedom is more
    > important.
    >
    >> E. Scrooge

    >
    > Allistar.


    There's so few of of them it makes it hard to split such a little group of
    users comaped to the Billion plus of other software users using software
    from thousands of different companies.
    A lot of PC users don't mind spending good money on newer hardware for more
    computing power than ever. All wasted on those who expect everything for
    free.
    The Freedom to be able to use software from any of thousands of different
    companies is what's really important to the true genuine PC user.
    While Linux is free it's also the most restrictive bit of software that any
    PC could ever be crippled with. It's layout of folders is hardly all that
    original as they have that much of a Windows look to them along with the
    names of main folders that it's not just done by chance.
    What the folders do miss out on is the many right menu options that Windows
    folders happen to have. There's also the ability to associate media files
    to open choices of hundreds of nan Microsoft programs to run them instead of
    MP etc - such are the almost unlimited choices that most computer users have
    the real freedom of choosing to use.

    E. Scrooge
    E. Scrooge, Jun 24, 2007
    #14
  15. Re: For the Linux fans here...

    On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 20:36:27 +1200, E. Scrooge wrote:

    > It's layout of folders is hardly all that
    > original as they have that much of a Windows look to them along with the
    > names of main folders that it's not just done by chance.


    Hmmm...

    The main directories in a Linux installation:

    /
    /root
    /etc
    /bin
    /sbin
    /usr
    /var
    /lib
    /lib64
    /mnt
    /boot
    /home

    I can't say I've *ever* seen those directories on any Win or WinNT
    installation.

    Doesn't that kinda blow your bleating totally out of the sheep pen?


    --
    Jonathan Walker

    "You'll have to excuse me — I have a long
    bath and a short dress to get into."
    Jonathan Walker, Jun 24, 2007
    #15
  16. jack

    Fred Dagg Guest

    Re: For the Linux fans here...

    On 24 Jun 2007 20:35:49 +1200, Jonathan Walker <>
    exclaimed:

    >On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 19:45:18 +1200, Fred Dagg wrote:
    >
    >>>Don't tar every Linux user with the same brush. Price is the last thing
    >>>on my mind when it come to what operating system to use. Freedom is more
    >>>important.

    >>
    >> Yes, but what does Freedom *REALLY* mean to the average user?
    >>
    >> Answer: In this context, it means it's free.

    >
    >Freedom means you are free to use it how you like.


    Yes, but for 99.9% of users, it just means that it's free. That's all.
    Free as in they don't have to pay for it.
    Fred Dagg, Jun 24, 2007
    #16
  17. jack

    sam Guest

    Re: For the Linux fans here...

    Fred Dagg wrote:
    > On 24 Jun 2007 20:35:49 +1200, Jonathan Walker <>
    > exclaimed:
    >
    >> On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 19:45:18 +1200, Fred Dagg wrote:
    >>
    >>>> Don't tar every Linux user with the same brush. Price is the last thing
    >>>> on my mind when it come to what operating system to use. Freedom is more
    >>>> important.
    >>> Yes, but what does Freedom *REALLY* mean to the average user?
    >>>
    >>> Answer: In this context, it means it's free.

    >> Freedom means you are free to use it how you like.

    >
    > Yes, but for 99.9% of users, it just means that it's free. That's all.
    > Free as in they don't have to pay for it.


    Do you have some survey to back up this assertion ?
    Or did you pull it out of your arse ?
    sam, Jun 24, 2007
    #17
  18. jack

    Fred Dagg Guest

    Re: For the Linux fans here...

    On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 22:29:22 +1200, sam <>
    exclaimed:

    >Fred Dagg wrote:
    >> On 24 Jun 2007 20:35:49 +1200, Jonathan Walker <>
    >> exclaimed:
    >>
    >>> On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 19:45:18 +1200, Fred Dagg wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>> Don't tar every Linux user with the same brush. Price is the last thing
    >>>>> on my mind when it come to what operating system to use. Freedom is more
    >>>>> important.
    >>>> Yes, but what does Freedom *REALLY* mean to the average user?
    >>>>
    >>>> Answer: In this context, it means it's free.
    >>> Freedom means you are free to use it how you like.

    >>
    >> Yes, but for 99.9% of users, it just means that it's free. That's all.
    >> Free as in they don't have to pay for it.

    >
    >Do you have some survey to back up this assertion ?
    >Or did you pull it out of your arse ?


    Huh? It's pretty bloody obvious.

    Ok, let's put it another way. For the majority of users, what tangible
    advantage do they get from using Linux versus any other operating
    system, other than it's free?
    Fred Dagg, Jun 24, 2007
    #18
  19. jack

    E. Scrooge Guest

    Re: For the Linux fans here...

    "Jonathan Walker" <> wrote in message
    news:467e2ce5$...
    > On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 19:45:18 +1200, Fred Dagg wrote:
    >
    >>>Don't tar every Linux user with the same brush. Price is the last thing
    >>>on my mind when it come to what operating system to use. Freedom is more
    >>>important.

    >>
    >> Yes, but what does Freedom *REALLY* mean to the average user?
    >>
    >> Answer: In this context, it means it's free.

    >
    > Freedom means you are free to use it how you like.
    >
    >
    > --
    > Jonathan Walker


    Just not free to use damn near any software on it, including thousands of
    non Microsoft software.

    E. Scrooge
    E. Scrooge, Jun 24, 2007
    #19
  20. jack

    sam Guest

    Re: For the Linux fans here...

    Fred Dagg wrote:
    > On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 22:29:22 +1200, sam <>
    > exclaimed:
    >
    >> Fred Dagg wrote:
    >>> On 24 Jun 2007 20:35:49 +1200, Jonathan Walker <>
    >>> exclaimed:
    >>>
    >>>> On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 19:45:18 +1200, Fred Dagg wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>>> Don't tar every Linux user with the same brush. Price is the last thing
    >>>>>> on my mind when it come to what operating system to use. Freedom is more
    >>>>>> important.
    >>>>> Yes, but what does Freedom *REALLY* mean to the average user?
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Answer: In this context, it means it's free.
    >>>> Freedom means you are free to use it how you like.
    >>> Yes, but for 99.9% of users, it just means that it's free. That's all.
    >>> Free as in they don't have to pay for it.

    >> Do you have some survey to back up this assertion ?
    >> Or did you pull it out of your arse ?

    >
    > Huh? It's pretty bloody obvious.
    >
    > Ok, let's put it another way. For the majority of users, what tangible
    > advantage do they get from using Linux versus any other operating
    > system, other than it's free?


    That they can download it ?
    sam, Jun 24, 2007
    #20
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