Followup - /who/ invented VHS - Sony or JVC?

Discussion in 'Computer Support' started by thanatoid, Jan 1, 2008.

  1. thanatoid

    thanatoid Guest

    I am following up to a thread from a long time ago in which I
    said that Sony invented VHS and sold it to JVC because Sony
    considered its quality unacceptably low, and that JVC made it
    cheap, called themselves "The Inventors Of VHS" and made it the
    predominant home format.

    Someone responded and pointed to a Wikipedia article in which it
    says that Sony developed the basic principles of a ½" video tape
    cassette for home use (a considerable improvement in ease-of use
    over their now ½" reel-to-reel format), invited a bunch of
    people to take a look at its prototypes (sounds a little like
    Xerox giving billions away by having /some people/ over to look
    at their unmarketable and useless GUI and mouse), and that while
    Sony then developed Betamax, JVC invented VHS based on most of
    the principles that Sony came up with, and specifically that
    Sony DID NOT invent VHS.

    As everyone knows, Wikipedia can be edited by anyone.
    (Interesting how such an admirable attempt at, shall we call it,
    "informational democratorship", is showing serious cracks...
    Most of the articles I looked at in the last few weeks are
    either requesting citations or are *closed* due to "lack of
    verifiable sources" or "vandalism"...)

    Anyway, while generally I find Wikipedia very useful, nothing
    found there is necessarily the ultimate truth, just like nothing
    in any book is, nor anything /anyone/ say about /anything/.

    And, I have just run across a Sony ad from 1979. You can find it
    in alt.binaries.test.gogo

    It rather clearly states, more than once, that Sony invented
    BOTH systems. In fact what appears to be the rejected Sony VHS
    deck prototype appears in the background. I do not recall JVC or
    anyone suing Sony for that ad and the statements it contains
    (nor do I think that Sony or Mr. Morita would run a blatantly
    fraudulent ad). I was quite involved with video production
    between 75 and 85 and I am pretty sure I would have known (and
    not forgotten) had anything like that happened.

    So what is the deal then? WHO invented VHS?

    (Having, one could say, "hard proof" in the form of the Sony ad
    I am not going into the subtleties of whether coming up with all
    the essential principles of the ½" video cassette system - and
    having others see and use them - does not in fact constitute
    "invention" of all formats based on those principles, regardless
    of the exact shape of the tape travel path and the size of the
    cassette shell.)

    --
    The only cure for stupidity is death.
    The only cure for brilliance is death.
    The only cure for love is death.
    The only cure for hate is death.
    Indifference needs no cure.
    The only cure for life is death.
    {© 2007 thanatoid}
     
    thanatoid, Jan 1, 2008
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. "thanatoid" <> wrote in message
    news:Xns9A17E6C0B10FBthanexit@66.250.146.158...
    >I am following up to a thread from a long time ago in which I
    > said that Sony invented VHS and sold it to JVC because Sony
    > considered its quality unacceptably low, and that JVC made it
    > cheap, called themselves "The Inventors Of VHS" and made it the
    > predominant home format.
    >
    > Someone responded and pointed to a Wikipedia article in which it
    > says that Sony developed the basic principles of a " video tape
    > cassette for home use (a considerable improvement in ease-of use
    > over their now " reel-to-reel format), invited a bunch of
    > people to take a look at its prototypes (sounds a little like
    > Xerox giving billions away by having /some people/ over to look
    > at their unmarketable and useless GUI and mouse), and that while
    > Sony then developed Betamax, JVC invented VHS based on most of
    > the principles that Sony came up with, and specifically that
    > Sony DID NOT invent VHS.
    >
    > As everyone knows, Wikipedia can be edited by anyone.
    > (Interesting how such an admirable attempt at, shall we call it,
    > "informational democratorship", is showing serious cracks...
    > Most of the articles I looked at in the last few weeks are
    > either requesting citations or are *closed* due to "lack of
    > verifiable sources" or "vandalism"...)
    >
    > Anyway, while generally I find Wikipedia very useful, nothing
    > found there is necessarily the ultimate truth, just like nothing
    > in any book is, nor anything /anyone/ say about /anything/.
    >
    > And, I have just run across a Sony ad from 1979. You can find it
    > in alt.binaries.test.gogo
    >
    > It rather clearly states, more than once, that Sony invented
    > BOTH systems. In fact what appears to be the rejected Sony VHS
    > deck prototype appears in the background. I do not recall JVC or
    > anyone suing Sony for that ad and the statements it contains
    > (nor do I think that Sony or Mr. Morita would run a blatantly
    > fraudulent ad). I was quite involved with video production
    > between 75 and 85 and I am pretty sure I would have known (and
    > not forgotten) had anything like that happened.
    >
    > So what is the deal then? WHO invented VHS?
    >
    > (Having, one could say, "hard proof" in the form of the Sony ad
    > I am not going into the subtleties of whether coming up with all
    > the essential principles of the " video cassette system - and
    > having others see and use them - does not in fact constitute
    > "invention" of all formats based on those principles, regardless
    > of the exact shape of the tape travel path and the size of the
    > cassette shell.)



    Why don't you discuss this on the Talk page for the Wikipedia VHS article?
    Might be more people that would be interested in this. It seems very
    strange for this fact not to be well known about if it were true.

    ss.
     
    Synapse Syndrome, Jan 1, 2008
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. By the way.. where did you find that advert?

    ss.
     
    Synapse Syndrome, Jan 1, 2008
    #3
  4. thanatoid

    Flyer Guest

    "thanatoid" <> wrote in message
    news:Xns9A17E6C0B10FBthanexit@66.250.146.158...

    > So what is the deal then? WHO invented VHS?
    >
    > (Having, one could say, "hard proof" in the form of the Sony ad
    > I am not going into the subtleties of whether coming up with all
    > the essential principles of the ½" video cassette system - and
    > having others see and use them - does not in fact constitute
    > "invention" of all formats based on those principles, regardless
    > of the exact shape of the tape travel path and the size of the
    > cassette shell.)
    >


    can't remember who started the VHS/Betamax wars, but I do remember the
    Philips VCS system, which used 1" tape, I bought a Grundig using this format
    in the mid 70's, and only junked it a few years ago ;-)

    P.
     
    Flyer, Jan 1, 2008
    #4
  5. Synapse Syndrome wrote:

    > "thanatoid" <> wrote in message
    > news:Xns9A17E6C0B10FBthanexit@66.250.146.158...
    >>I am following up to a thread from a long time ago in which I
    >> said that Sony invented VHS and sold it to JVC because Sony
    >> considered its quality unacceptably low, and that JVC made it
    >> cheap, called themselves "The Inventors Of VHS" and made it the
    >> predominant home format.
    >>
    >> Someone responded and pointed to a Wikipedia article in which it
    >> says that Sony developed the basic principles of a " video tape
    >> cassette for home use (a considerable improvement in ease-of use
    >> over their now " reel-to-reel format), invited a bunch of
    >> people to take a look at its prototypes (sounds a little like
    >> Xerox giving billions away by having /some people/ over to look
    >> at their unmarketable and useless GUI and mouse), and that while
    >> Sony then developed Betamax, JVC invented VHS based on most of
    >> the principles that Sony came up with, and specifically that
    >> Sony DID NOT invent VHS.


    Re Sony developing a cassette format to replace open reel video tape, they
    already had the U-matic cassette format on the market for a few years
    before either Beta or VHS appeared; it used helical scanning, as did Beta
    and VHS.


    --
    Blinky
    Killing all posts from Google Groups
    The Usenet Improvement Project - http://improve-usenet.org
     
    Blinky the Shark, Jan 1, 2008
    #5
  6. thanatoid

    thanatoid Guest

    "Synapse Syndrome" <> wrote
    in news::

    > By the way.. where did you find that advert?
    >
    > ss.


    It was posted (not sure why, along with an ad for an early
    version of what was to become the famous Technics SL-1200
    turntable) among a bunch of "misc" Playboy stuff in one of the
    Playboy groups about 10-20 days ago. I actually remember seeing
    it in print IN 1979, but not sure where. It probably appeared in
    a variety of magazines - ranging from New Yorker and Esquire to
    Playboy - as most Sony ads did around that time.

    Your suggestion about Wiki-discussing this was MOST reasonable.
    I actually considered doing it, and went to Wikipedia. For SOME
    reason, the articles I read this time use the term "developed"
    rather than invented (as applied to JVC's work) or use an even
    more vague term. I certainly admit JVC developed and improved
    VHS, not to mention Sony showed the first example of its utter
    lack of comprehension of the consumer mind (and POCKET), so
    greatly at odds with its once-great innovative spirit, and - as
    everyone knows - basically killed Betamax with their own hands.

    So I am just going to drop it. Besides, the Sony of today is not
    even worth defending or fighting for.


    --
    Needless to say, I disdain such idiocies as Xmas and New Year's,
    but I'd thought I'd play along just once...

    thanatoid's New Year's Resolutions.

    01. Stop posting good advice to help newsgroups.
    02. Stop posting stupid advice to help newsgroups.
    03. Drive to see the Grand Canyon and then to Las Vegas, buy a
    gun.
    04. Gamble a little in a desperate attempt to fit in for once.
    05. Hire 5 of the best looking Las Vegas hookers and have a 3
    hour orgy.
    06. Have a king-size eggs and bacon and hashbrowns with onions
    breakfast.
    07. Return to hotel room, put gun in mouth and pull trigger.
     
    thanatoid, Jan 1, 2008
    #6
  7. thanatoid

    thanatoid Guest

    "Flyer" <> wrote in
    news::

    >
    > "thanatoid" <> wrote in message
    > news:Xns9A17E6C0B10FBthanexit@66.250.146.158...
    >
    >> So what is the deal then? WHO invented VHS?
    >>
    >> (Having, one could say, "hard proof" in the form of the
    >> Sony ad I am not going into the subtleties of whether
    >> coming up with all the essential principles of the ½"
    >> video cassette system - and having others see and use them
    >> - does not in fact constitute "invention" of all formats
    >> based on those principles, regardless of the exact shape
    >> of the tape travel path and the size of the cassette
    >> shell.)
    >>

    >
    > can't remember who started the VHS/Betamax wars, but I do
    > remember the Philips VCS system, which used 1" tape, I
    > bought a Grundig using this format in the mid 70's, and
    > only junked it a few years ago ;-)
    >
    > P.


    I never actually /saw/ one of those but I remember reading about
    it. I believe the cassette was square. But I don't think it
    could have used 1" tape. 1" (AKA "C" format" tape) was used in
    "portable" pro video recorders (the Nagra ad for a large-
    dictionary-sized unit slung from the shoulder of a nice-looking
    woman with a semi-Afro haircut comes to mind) and a 7" reel of
    it could only hold about 15 or 30 minutes of material. I am too
    lazy to check right now but I believe the Grundigs used ½" tape
    - as all the systems developed around then did. The trend was
    always for things to get smaller and more portable - from 2"
    Quadraplex refrigerator-size video recorders to 3/4" mini-U-
    Matic cassettes (medium hard-cover book size, 20 minutes) to
    Betamax/VHS to Hi-8 etc.

    [a little later]

    Found a video tape recorder museum page (there's a link to it in
    Wikipedia on one of the VTR formats pages). Your VCS cassettes
    were not square (I confused it with another format which was
    /almost/ square) but DID use ½" tape, recording on a ¼" portion
    of it on one side and then the other half after flipping the
    cassette over.


    --
    Needless to say, I disdain such idiocies as Xmas and New Year's,
    but I'd thought I'd play along just once...

    thanatoid's New Year's Resolutions.

    01. Stop posting good advice to help newsgroups.
    02. Stop posting stupid advice to help newsgroups.
    03. Drive to see the Grand Canyon and then to Las Vegas, buy a
    gun.
    04. Gamble a little in a desperate attempt to fit in for once.
    05. Hire 5 of the best looking Las Vegas hookers and have a 3
    hour orgy.
    06. Have a king-size eggs and bacon and hashbrowns with onions
    breakfast.
    07. Return to hotel room, put gun in mouth and pull trigger.
     
    thanatoid, Jan 1, 2008
    #7
  8. "thanatoid" <> wrote in message
    news:Xns9A18A422DFF1Bthanexit@66.250.146.158...
    >
    > It was posted (not sure why, along with an ad for an early
    > version of what was to become the famous Technics SL-1200
    > turntable) among a bunch of "misc" Playboy stuff in one of the
    > Playboy groups about 10-20 days ago.


    Could you repost that Technics 1200 advert in that binary group please.

    ss.
     
    Synapse Syndrome, Jan 1, 2008
    #8
  9. thanatoid

    thanatoid Guest

    "Synapse Syndrome" <>
    wrote in news::

    > "thanatoid" <> wrote in message
    > news:Xns9A18A422DFF1Bthanexit@66.250.146.158...
    >>
    >> It was posted (not sure why, along with an ad for an early
    >> version of what was to become the famous Technics SL-1200
    >> turntable) among a bunch of "misc" Playboy stuff in one of
    >> the Playboy groups about 10-20 days ago.

    >
    > Could you repost that Technics 1200 advert in that binary
    > group please.
    >
    > ss.


    Done.


    --
    Needless to say, I disdain such idiocies as Xmas and New Year's,
    but I'd thought I'd play along just once...

    thanatoid's New Year's Resolutions.

    01. Stop posting good advice to help newsgroups.
    02. Stop posting stupid advice to help newsgroups.
    03. Drive to see the Grand Canyon and then to Las Vegas, buy a
    gun.
    04. Gamble a little in a desperate attempt to fit in for once.
    05. Hire 5 of the best looking Las Vegas hookers and have a 3
    hour orgy.
    06. Have a king-size eggs and bacon and hashbrowns with onions
    breakfast.
    07. Return to hotel room, put gun in mouth and pull trigger.
     
    thanatoid, Jan 2, 2008
    #9
  10. "thanatoid" <> wrote in message
    news:Xns9A18C1239E061thanexit@66.250.146.158...
    >>>
    >>> It was posted (not sure why, along with an ad for an early
    >>> version of what was to become the famous Technics SL-1200
    >>> turntable) among a bunch of "misc" Playboy stuff in one of
    >>> the Playboy groups about 10-20 days ago.

    >>
    >> Could you repost that Technics 1200 advert in that binary
    >> group please.
    >>
    >> ss.

    >
    > Done.


    Cheers

    ss.
     
    Synapse Syndrome, Jan 2, 2008
    #10
  11. thanatoid

    Phat Sam Guest

    Phat Sam, Jan 2, 2008
    #11
  12. "Phat Sam" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > A search in Google found:
    >
    > http://www.ps3focus.com/comment/209/32355
    >
    > http://palimpsest.stanford.edu/byform/mailing-lists/arsclist/2002/02/msg00033.html
    >
    > Kinda implying JVC Invented the VHS, and I'd have to believe it,
    > otherwise Sony would sue both of those websites for false
    > accusations....



    The first one was a comment on an article, made by a moronic juvenile, and
    the second one was a usenet post. Erm, you're not very good at judging
    evidence on its authority. As for Sony suing either of those people,
    LMAO...

    ss.
     
    Synapse Syndrome, Jan 2, 2008
    #12
  13. thanatoid

    chuckcar Guest

    thanatoid <> wrote in
    news:Xns9A17E6C0B10FBthanexit@66.250.146.158:

    > I am following up to a thread from a long time ago in which I
    > said that Sony invented VHS and sold it to JVC because Sony
    > considered its quality unacceptably low, and that JVC made it
    > cheap, called themselves "The Inventors Of VHS" and made it the
    > predominant home format.


    Did you *try* looking it up in a real encyclopedia, like Britannica?
    Wikipaedia is fine for some obscure bits and things, but it's hardly a
    real one.

    --
    (setq (chuck nil) car(chuck) )
     
    chuckcar, Jan 3, 2008
    #13
  14. thanatoid

    thanatoid Guest

    chuckcar <> wrote in
    news:Xns9A1ABADA3F4chucknilcar@127.0.0.1:

    > thanatoid <> wrote in
    > news:Xns9A17E6C0B10FBthanexit@66.250.146.158:
    >
    >> I am following up to a thread from a long time ago in
    >> which I said that Sony invented VHS and sold it to JVC
    >> because Sony considered its quality unacceptably low, and
    >> that JVC made it cheap, called themselves "The Inventors
    >> Of VHS" and made it the predominant home format.

    >
    > Did you *try* looking it up in a real encyclopedia, like
    > Britannica? Wikipaedia is fine for some obscure bits and
    > things, but it's hardly a real one.


    BION I feel exactly the same and I /did/ but I didn't want to go
    through the free trial sign up hassle so didn't get very far. I
    DID find out that the printed Britannica is still available!

    Anyway, the Sony ad I posted is enough proof for me.

    All corporations are lying weasels but I think Sony when Mr.
    Morita still headed it was much less of a lying weasel than
    most.



    --
    Needless to say, I disdain such idiocies as Xmas and New Year's,
    but I'd thought I'd play along just once...

    thanatoid's New Year's Resolutions.

    01. Stop posting good advice to help newsgroups.
    02. Stop posting stupid advice to help newsgroups.
    03. Drive to see the Grand Canyon and then to Las Vegas, buy a
    gun.
    04. Gamble a little in a desperate attempt to fit in for once.
    05. Hire 5 of the best looking Las Vegas hookers and have a 3
    hour orgy.
    06. Have a king-size eggs and bacon and hashbrowns with onions
    breakfast.
    07. Return to hotel room, put gun in mouth and pull trigger.
     
    thanatoid, Jan 3, 2008
    #14
  15. thanatoid

    tutsi Guest

    Here is my 2 cents , i say sony invented BETA



    On 03 Jan 2008 07:38:57 GMT, thanatoid <>
    wrote:

    >chuckcar <> wrote in
    >news:Xns9A1ABADA3F4chucknilcar@127.0.0.1:
    >
    >> thanatoid <> wrote in
    >> news:Xns9A17E6C0B10FBthanexit@66.250.146.158:
    >>
    >>> I am following up to a thread from a long time ago in
    >>> which I said that Sony invented VHS and sold it to JVC
    >>> because Sony considered its quality unacceptably low, and
    >>> that JVC made it cheap, called themselves "The Inventors
    >>> Of VHS" and made it the predominant home format.

    >>
    >> Did you *try* looking it up in a real encyclopedia, like
    >> Britannica? Wikipaedia is fine for some obscure bits and
    >> things, but it's hardly a real one.

    >
    >BION I feel exactly the same and I /did/ but I didn't want to go
    >through the free trial sign up hassle so didn't get very far. I
    >DID find out that the printed Britannica is still available!
    >
    >Anyway, the Sony ad I posted is enough proof for me.
    >
    >All corporations are lying weasels but I think Sony when Mr.
    >Morita still headed it was much less of a lying weasel than
    >most.
     
    tutsi, Jan 4, 2008
    #15
  16. thanatoid

    thanatoid Guest

    tutsi <> wrote in
    news::

    > Here is my 2 cents , i say sony invented BETA


    There was never any question as to that. You're either trying to
    be funny or a little out of it.


    --
    Needless to say, I disdain such idiocies as Xmas and New Year's,
    but I'd thought I'd play along just once...

    thanatoid's New Year's Resolutions.

    01. Stop posting good advice to help newsgroups.
    02. Stop posting stupid advice to help newsgroups.
    03. Drive to see the Grand Canyon and then to Las Vegas, buy a
    gun.
    04. Gamble a little in a desperate attempt to fit in for once.
    05. Hire 5 of the best looking Las Vegas hookers and have a 3
    hour orgy.
    06. Have a king-size eggs and bacon and hashbrowns with onions
    breakfast.
    07. Return to hotel room, put gun in mouth and pull trigger.
     
    thanatoid, Jan 4, 2008
    #16
  17. thanatoid

    richard Guest

    On 01 Jan 2008 04:38:49 GMT, thanatoid <>
    wrote:

    >I am following up to a thread from a long time ago in which I
    >said that Sony invented VHS and sold it to JVC because Sony
    >considered its quality unacceptably low, and that JVC made it
    >cheap, called themselves "The Inventors Of VHS" and made it the
    >predominant home format.
    >
    >Someone responded and pointed to a Wikipedia article in which it
    >says that Sony developed the basic principles of a ½" video tape
    >cassette for home use (a considerable improvement in ease-of use
    >over their now ½" reel-to-reel format), invited a bunch of
    >people to take a look at its prototypes (sounds a little like
    >Xerox giving billions away by having /some people/ over to look
    >at their unmarketable and useless GUI and mouse), and that while
    >Sony then developed Betamax, JVC invented VHS based on most of
    >the principles that Sony came up with, and specifically that
    >Sony DID NOT invent VHS.
    >
    >As everyone knows, Wikipedia can be edited by anyone.
    >(Interesting how such an admirable attempt at, shall we call it,
    >"informational democratorship", is showing serious cracks...
    >Most of the articles I looked at in the last few weeks are
    >either requesting citations or are *closed* due to "lack of
    >verifiable sources" or "vandalism"...)
    >
    >Anyway, while generally I find Wikipedia very useful, nothing
    >found there is necessarily the ultimate truth, just like nothing
    >in any book is, nor anything /anyone/ say about /anything/.
    >
    >And, I have just run across a Sony ad from 1979. You can find it
    >in alt.binaries.test.gogo
    >
    >It rather clearly states, more than once, that Sony invented
    >BOTH systems. In fact what appears to be the rejected Sony VHS
    >deck prototype appears in the background. I do not recall JVC or
    >anyone suing Sony for that ad and the statements it contains
    >(nor do I think that Sony or Mr. Morita would run a blatantly
    >fraudulent ad). I was quite involved with video production
    >between 75 and 85 and I am pretty sure I would have known (and
    >not forgotten) had anything like that happened.
    >
    >So what is the deal then? WHO invented VHS?
    >
    >(Having, one could say, "hard proof" in the form of the Sony ad
    >I am not going into the subtleties of whether coming up with all
    >the essential principles of the ½" video cassette system - and
    >having others see and use them - does not in fact constitute
    >"invention" of all formats based on those principles, regardless
    >of the exact shape of the tape travel path and the size of the
    >cassette shell.)


    http://pro.jvc.com/prof/aboutus/history.jsp

    They claim they invented the system in 1976.
    As I recall, Sony countered that invention with betamax.

    In @1981 I had won a beta machine from a local radio station.
    Value at the time, new, was like $800.
     
    richard, Jan 6, 2008
    #17
    1. Advertising

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