Firewire/IEEE 1394 help

Discussion in 'Computer Information' started by Reaper, Nov 21, 2003.

  1. Reaper

    Reaper Guest

    Ok, newbie questions here. Hopefully someone can help me. I just got a new
    Dell Inspiron laptop with a IEEE 1394 port on it that I was planning to use
    with an external hard drive I already have. I can't do this because the
    ports don't match up. I can use the drive through a USB port but I want to
    understand where my thinking went wrong and how I can prevent making the
    same mistake again. My research has led me to the following conclusions -
    please tell me if I'm correct or if I'm just a low grade moron.

    1. - Firewire and IEEE 1394 ports are the exact same thing? Firewire is just
    Mac's trademarked name for the technology?

    2. - Firewire/IEEE 1394 ports come in two varieties, 6 pin like the port on
    the back of my hard drive and 4 pin like the one on my laptop. The different
    ports work the same as far as data transfers are concerned but the 6 pin
    ports include wires to transmit power from the computer to whatever is
    plugged into them thus eliminating the need for a seperate power supply.

    3. - There are no, non-Mac, laptops that offer a 6-pin port?

    Any help would be appreciated.
     
    Reaper, Nov 21, 2003
    #1
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  2. Reaper

    Night_Seer Guest

    Reaper wrote:
    > Ok, newbie questions here. Hopefully someone can help me. I just got
    > a new Dell Inspiron laptop with a IEEE 1394 port on it that I was
    > planning to use with an external hard drive I already have. I can't
    > do this because the ports don't match up. I can use the drive through
    > a USB port but I want to understand where my thinking went wrong and
    > how I can prevent making the same mistake again. My research has led
    > me to the following conclusions - please tell me if I'm correct or if
    > I'm just a low grade moron.
    >
    > 1. - Firewire and IEEE 1394 ports are the exact same thing? Firewire
    > is just Mac's trademarked name for the technology?
    >
    > 2. - Firewire/IEEE 1394 ports come in two varieties, 6 pin like the
    > port on the back of my hard drive and 4 pin like the one on my
    > laptop. The different ports work the same as far as data transfers
    > are concerned but the 6 pin ports include wires to transmit power
    > from the computer to whatever is plugged into them thus eliminating
    > the need for a seperate power supply.
    >
    > 3. - There are no, non-Mac, laptops that offer a 6-pin port?
    >
    > Any help would be appreciated.


    Just some info...it is also the same as iLink which is Sony's trademark
    name for it, which they use on many camcorders.

    --
    Night_Seer
     
    Night_Seer, Nov 21, 2003
    #2
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  3. Reaper

    LarryLamb Guest

    "Reaper" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Ok, newbie questions here. Hopefully someone can help me. I just got a new
    > Dell Inspiron laptop with a IEEE 1394 port on it that I was planning to use
    > with an external hard drive I already have. I can't do this because the
    > ports don't match up. I can use the drive through a USB port but I want to
    > understand where my thinking went wrong and how I can prevent making the
    > same mistake again. My research has led me to the following conclusions -
    > please tell me if I'm correct or if I'm just a low grade moron.
    >
    > 1. - Firewire and IEEE 1394 ports are the exact same thing? Firewire is just
    > Mac's trademarked name for the technology?
    >
    > 2. - Firewire/IEEE 1394 ports come in two varieties, 6 pin like the port on
    > the back of my hard drive and 4 pin like the one on my laptop. The different
    > ports work the same as far as data transfers are concerned but the 6 pin
    > ports include wires to transmit power from the computer to whatever is
    > plugged into them thus eliminating the need for a seperate power supply.
    >
    > 3. - There are no, non-Mac, laptops that offer a 6-pin port?
    >
    > Any help would be appreciated.
    >

    The unglamorously named IEEE 1394 serial connection system was devised back in
    1995 by Apple, which wisely renamed it Firewire. In 2001 it had the rare
    distinction of being awarded an Emmy Engineering Award for its impact on the
    television industry. Three years ago Sony managed to confuse matters by calling
    it iLink, but rest assured, IEEE 1394, Firewire and iLink are one and the same.

    Like USB 2, there is an even faster version of Firewire called IEEE 1394b, which
    can operate at speeds in excess of 800Mb/s. To put that in context, that would
    mean being able to copy the contents of a CD-Rom in a little over a second.

    Most PCs and laptops use the standard six-pin socket. Devices like digital
    camcorders that have their own power supplies have a four-pin socket.
     
    LarryLamb, Nov 21, 2003
    #3
  4. Reaper

    Thor Guest

    "LarryLamb" <> wrote in message
    news:VKtvb.71488$...
    >
    >
    > "Reaper" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > Ok, newbie questions here. Hopefully someone can help me. I just got a

    new
    > > Dell Inspiron laptop with a IEEE 1394 port on it that I was planning to

    use
    > > with an external hard drive I already have. I can't do this because the
    > > ports don't match up. I can use the drive through a USB port but I want

    to
    > > understand where my thinking went wrong and how I can prevent making the
    > > same mistake again. My research has led me to the following

    conclusions -
    > > please tell me if I'm correct or if I'm just a low grade moron.
    > >
    > > 1. - Firewire and IEEE 1394 ports are the exact same thing? Firewire is

    just
    > > Mac's trademarked name for the technology?
    > >
    > > 2. - Firewire/IEEE 1394 ports come in two varieties, 6 pin like the port

    on
    > > the back of my hard drive and 4 pin like the one on my laptop. The

    different
    > > ports work the same as far as data transfers are concerned but the 6 pin
    > > ports include wires to transmit power from the computer to whatever is
    > > plugged into them thus eliminating the need for a seperate power supply.
    > >
    > > 3. - There are no, non-Mac, laptops that offer a 6-pin port?
    > >
    > > Any help would be appreciated.
    > >

    > The unglamorously named IEEE 1394 serial connection system was devised

    back in
    > 1995 by Apple, which wisely renamed it Firewire. In 2001 it had the rare
    > distinction of being awarded an Emmy Engineering Award for its impact on

    the
    > television industry. Three years ago Sony managed to confuse matters by

    calling
    > it iLink, but rest assured, IEEE 1394, Firewire and iLink are one and the

    same.
    >
    > Like USB 2, there is an even faster version of Firewire called IEEE 1394b,

    which
    > can operate at speeds in excess of 800Mb/s. To put that in context, that

    would
    > mean being able to copy the contents of a CD-Rom in a little over a

    second.

    Larry, I think you may have confused megaBITs per second with mega BYTES per
    second here. The 1394b (Firewire 800) spec has a top rate of 800
    megaBITS/sec which translates to roughly 100 megabytes/sec, or a theoretical
    6-7 seconds to transfer the amount of data of a full CDROM. Also, the
    Firewire 800 port is 9-pin versus the old standard's 6 pin connection, so
    it's a tad less backward compatible than USB 2.0 in that respect without the
    use of adapters (which are available).
     
    Thor, Nov 21, 2003
    #4
  5. Thor wrote:
    > "LarryLamb" <> wrote in message
    > news:VKtvb.71488$...
    >
    >>
    >>"Reaper" <> wrote in message
    >>news:...
    >>
    >>>Ok, newbie questions here. Hopefully someone can help me. I just got a

    >
    > new
    >
    >>>Dell Inspiron laptop with a IEEE 1394 port on it that I was planning to

    >
    > use
    >
    >>>with an external hard drive I already have. I can't do this because the
    >>>ports don't match up. I can use the drive through a USB port but I want

    >
    > to
    >
    >>>understand where my thinking went wrong and how I can prevent making the
    >>>same mistake again. My research has led me to the following

    >
    > conclusions -
    >
    >>>please tell me if I'm correct or if I'm just a low grade moron.
    >>>
    >>>1. - Firewire and IEEE 1394 ports are the exact same thing? Firewire is

    >
    > just
    >
    >>>Mac's trademarked name for the technology?
    >>>
    >>>2. - Firewire/IEEE 1394 ports come in two varieties, 6 pin like the port

    >
    > on
    >
    >>>the back of my hard drive and 4 pin like the one on my laptop. The

    >
    > different
    >
    >>>ports work the same as far as data transfers are concerned but the 6 pin
    >>>ports include wires to transmit power from the computer to whatever is
    >>>plugged into them thus eliminating the need for a seperate power supply.
    >>>
    >>>3. - There are no, non-Mac, laptops that offer a 6-pin port?
    >>>
    >>>Any help would be appreciated.
    >>>

    >>
    >>The unglamorously named IEEE 1394 serial connection system was devised

    >
    > back in
    >
    >>1995 by Apple, which wisely renamed it Firewire. In 2001 it had the rare
    >>distinction of being awarded an Emmy Engineering Award for its impact on

    >
    > the
    >
    >>television industry. Three years ago Sony managed to confuse matters by

    >
    > calling
    >
    >>it iLink, but rest assured, IEEE 1394, Firewire and iLink are one and the

    >
    > same.
    >
    >>Like USB 2, there is an even faster version of Firewire called IEEE 1394b,

    >
    > which
    >
    >>can operate at speeds in excess of 800Mb/s. To put that in context, that

    >
    > would
    >
    >>mean being able to copy the contents of a CD-Rom in a little over a

    >
    > second.
    >
    > Larry, I think you may have confused megaBITs per second with mega BYTES per
    > second here. The 1394b (Firewire 800) spec has a top rate of 800
    > megaBITS/sec which translates to roughly 100 megabytes/sec, or a theoretical
    > 6-7 seconds to transfer the amount of data of a full CDROM. Also, the
    > Firewire 800 port is 9-pin versus the old standard's 6 pin connection, so
    > it's a tad less backward compatible than USB 2.0 in that respect without the
    > use of adapters (which are available).
    >
    >

    Roughly? Unlike Kilo/Mega/Giga conversions which are routinely rounded
    at 1000 vs. the actual 1024, bits to bytes conversions are *exactly* 8
    bits = 1 byte AFAIK. Therefore, a rate of 800 megabits/sec would be
    *exactly* 100 megabytes/sec-unless I've screwed up my math (again).
     
    Calvin Crumrine, Nov 21, 2003
    #5
  6. Reaper

    Thor Guest

    "Calvin Crumrine" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Thor wrote:
    > > "LarryLamb" <> wrote in message
    > > news:VKtvb.71488$...
    > >
    > >>
    > >>"Reaper" <> wrote in message
    > >>news:...
    > >>
    > >>>Ok, newbie questions here. Hopefully someone can help me. I just got a

    > >
    > > new
    > >
    > >>>Dell Inspiron laptop with a IEEE 1394 port on it that I was planning to

    > >
    > > use
    > >
    > >>>with an external hard drive I already have. I can't do this because the
    > >>>ports don't match up. I can use the drive through a USB port but I want

    > >
    > > to
    > >
    > >>>understand where my thinking went wrong and how I can prevent making

    the
    > >>>same mistake again. My research has led me to the following

    > >
    > > conclusions -
    > >
    > >>>please tell me if I'm correct or if I'm just a low grade moron.
    > >>>
    > >>>1. - Firewire and IEEE 1394 ports are the exact same thing? Firewire is

    > >
    > > just
    > >
    > >>>Mac's trademarked name for the technology?
    > >>>
    > >>>2. - Firewire/IEEE 1394 ports come in two varieties, 6 pin like the

    port
    > >
    > > on
    > >
    > >>>the back of my hard drive and 4 pin like the one on my laptop. The

    > >
    > > different
    > >
    > >>>ports work the same as far as data transfers are concerned but the 6

    pin
    > >>>ports include wires to transmit power from the computer to whatever is
    > >>>plugged into them thus eliminating the need for a seperate power

    supply.
    > >>>
    > >>>3. - There are no, non-Mac, laptops that offer a 6-pin port?
    > >>>
    > >>>Any help would be appreciated.
    > >>>
    > >>
    > >>The unglamorously named IEEE 1394 serial connection system was devised

    > >
    > > back in
    > >
    > >>1995 by Apple, which wisely renamed it Firewire. In 2001 it had the rare
    > >>distinction of being awarded an Emmy Engineering Award for its impact on

    > >
    > > the
    > >
    > >>television industry. Three years ago Sony managed to confuse matters by

    > >
    > > calling
    > >
    > >>it iLink, but rest assured, IEEE 1394, Firewire and iLink are one and

    the
    > >
    > > same.
    > >
    > >>Like USB 2, there is an even faster version of Firewire called IEEE

    1394b,
    > >
    > > which
    > >
    > >>can operate at speeds in excess of 800Mb/s. To put that in context, that

    > >
    > > would
    > >
    > >>mean being able to copy the contents of a CD-Rom in a little over a

    > >
    > > second.
    > >
    > > Larry, I think you may have confused megaBITs per second with mega BYTES

    per
    > > second here. The 1394b (Firewire 800) spec has a top rate of 800
    > > megaBITS/sec which translates to roughly 100 megabytes/sec, or a

    theoretical
    > > 6-7 seconds to transfer the amount of data of a full CDROM. Also, the
    > > Firewire 800 port is 9-pin versus the old standard's 6 pin connection,

    so
    > > it's a tad less backward compatible than USB 2.0 in that respect without

    the
    > > use of adapters (which are available).
    > >
    > >

    > Roughly? Unlike Kilo/Mega/Giga conversions which are routinely rounded
    > at 1000 vs. the actual 1024, bits to bytes conversions are *exactly* 8
    > bits = 1 byte AFAIK. Therefore, a rate of 800 megabits/sec would be
    > *exactly* 100 megabytes/sec-unless I've screwed up my math (again).


    No you are right. It is exactly 100MB/sec. I was calculating too roughly.
    heh. ;-)


    >
     
    Thor, Nov 21, 2003
    #6
  7. Reaper

    Fred Guest

    Reaper wrote:
    > Ok, newbie questions here. Hopefully someone can help me. I just got a new
    > Dell Inspiron laptop with a IEEE 1394 port on it that I was planning to

    use
    > with an external hard drive I already have. I can't do this because the
    > ports don't match up. I can use the drive through a USB port but I want to
    > understand where my thinking went wrong and how I can prevent making the
    > same mistake again. My research has led me to the following conclusions -
    > please tell me if I'm correct or if I'm just a low grade moron.
    >
    > 1. - Firewire and IEEE 1394 ports are the exact same thing? Firewire is

    just
    > Mac's trademarked name for the technology?
    >
    > 2. - Firewire/IEEE 1394 ports come in two varieties, 6 pin like the port

    on
    > the back of my hard drive and 4 pin like the one on my laptop. The

    different
    > ports work the same as far as data transfers are concerned but the 6 pin
    > ports include wires to transmit power from the computer to whatever is
    > plugged into them thus eliminating the need for a seperate power supply.
    >
    > 3. - There are no, non-Mac, laptops that offer a 6-pin port?
    >
    > Any help would be appreciated.


    I don't quite understand what you need help with here as your research about
    four and six pin connectors is correct.
    But one problem you have is that IEEE 1394 peripherals that are not
    externally powered are not supported on Dell computers.
    http://support.dell.com/us/en/kb/document.asp?dn=1055196#A
     
    Fred, Nov 21, 2003
    #7
  8. Reaper

    Reaper Guest

    "Fred" <> wrote in message
    news:laxvb.20913$...
    > Reaper wrote:
    > > Ok, newbie questions here. Hopefully someone can help me. I just got a

    new
    > > Dell Inspiron laptop with a IEEE 1394 port on it that I was planning to

    > use
    > > with an external hard drive I already have. I can't do this because the
    > > ports don't match up. I can use the drive through a USB port but I want

    to
    > > understand where my thinking went wrong and how I can prevent making the
    > > same mistake again. My research has led me to the following

    conclusions -
    > > please tell me if I'm correct or if I'm just a low grade moron.
    > >
    > > 1. - Firewire and IEEE 1394 ports are the exact same thing? Firewire is

    > just
    > > Mac's trademarked name for the technology?
    > >
    > > 2. - Firewire/IEEE 1394 ports come in two varieties, 6 pin like the port

    > on
    > > the back of my hard drive and 4 pin like the one on my laptop. The

    > different
    > > ports work the same as far as data transfers are concerned but the 6 pin
    > > ports include wires to transmit power from the computer to whatever is
    > > plugged into them thus eliminating the need for a seperate power supply.
    > >
    > > 3. - There are no, non-Mac, laptops that offer a 6-pin port?
    > >
    > > Any help would be appreciated.

    >
    > I don't quite understand what you need help with here as your research

    about
    > four and six pin connectors is correct.


    I thought that was the case but I wasn't entirely sure. Thanks for the
    confirmation.

    > But one problem you have is that IEEE 1394 peripherals that are not
    > externally powered are not supported on Dell computers.
    > http://support.dell.com/us/en/kb/document.asp?dn=1055196#A


    Fair enough. Do you know of any non-Mac laptop brands that do support the 6
    pin, computer powered, peripherals?
     
    Reaper, Nov 22, 2003
    #8
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