Firefly Pilot: Fox did the right thing...

Discussion in 'DVD Video' started by Jordan Lund, Dec 10, 2003.

  1. Jordan Lund

    Jordan Lund Guest

    I sat down with the boxed set of Firefly last night and I have to
    admit, I think Fox did the right thing by bouncing the 2-hour pilot.
    Yes, it has a lot of the backstory, but in the end Mal comes across
    like an insufferable prick. He's much softer in the train robbery
    episode which is what Fox used to launch the series.

    Part of what made me like the series so much was Mal's attitude ("What
    happened in the engine room? Was it monkeys? Giant space monkeys?")
    and that was almost completely absent from the 2-hour pilot.

    Of course this doesn't excuse Fox from screwing up the rest of the
    series. ;^)

    - Jordan
    Jordan Lund, Dec 10, 2003
    #1
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  2. Jordan Lund

    C.O.Jones Guest

    In article <>, Jordan
    Lund <> wrote:

    > I sat down with the boxed set of Firefly last night and I have to
    > admit, I think Fox did the right thing by bouncing the 2-hour pilot.
    > Yes, it has a lot of the backstory, but in the end Mal comes across
    > like an insufferable prick. He's much softer in the train robbery
    > episode which is what Fox used to launch the series.
    >
    > Part of what made me like the series so much was Mal's attitude ("What
    > happened in the engine room? Was it monkeys? Giant space monkeys?")
    > and that was almost completely absent from the 2-hour pilot.
    >
    > Of course this doesn't excuse Fox from screwing up the rest of the
    > series. ;^)
    >
    > - Jordan


    You do know that this was not the original, unseen pilot?

    COJones
    C.O.Jones, Dec 10, 2003
    #2
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  3. Jordan Lund

    AceoHearts Guest

    Fox made them re-shoot the pilot because they said that the original one
    didn't have enough action. Who knows if we will ever see the real original.

    AceoHearts
    AceoHearts, Dec 10, 2003
    #3
  4. Jordan Lund

    Jay G Guest

    "AceoHearts" <> wrote in ...
    > Fox made them re-shoot the pilot because they said that the original one
    > didn't have enough action. Who knows if we will ever see the real

    original.

    The pilot wasn't completely reshot. The original pilot was re-edited
    with one newly shot scene added in and one other one cut out, along
    with various other "tightening" and re-jiggering of scenes. It's doubtful
    the original pilot will be made available on video since the new version
    of the pilot is the one Joss Whedon prefers.

    The pilot has been available on file-sharing networks in a poor-quality
    transfer since the show first aired.

    A *very* in depth review of the aired version of Serenity, followed
    by a comparison to the original pilot, can be found on this link:
    http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=

    The reviewer's previous in-depth review of the pilot can be found here:
    http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=

    -Jay
    Jay G, Dec 11, 2003
    #4
  5. Jordan Lund

    jayembee Guest

    "AceoHearts" <> wrote:

    > Fox made them re-shoot the pilot because they said that
    > the original one didn't have enough action. Who knows if
    > we will ever see the real original.


    You have an astonishing misunderstanding of the situation.

    Joss Whedon shot the Pilot (Mark I), showed it to Fox, and
    they weren't happy with the relatively low amount of action
    and humor. Whedon did a little editing, and created Pilot
    (Mark II). Fox wasn't interested in even looking at it, but
    were still vaguely interested in having him do the series,
    so they asked for a more representative example of what a
    series episode would be like. He wrote "The Train Job" over
    a weekend, and handed it to them on Monday. *That* they
    liked, and gave a go-ahead for the series.

    Despite arguments from Whedon and Tim Minear, FOX wanted
    to lead off with "The Train Job" rather than Pilot (Mark II).

    Pilot (Mark II) is what eventually got shown a few months
    later, and is in the DVD set. The differences between it
    and Pilot (Mark I) are minor, mostly a little tightening
    here and there.

    Mark I opens with a salvage operation by the Serenity crew.
    Later in the film, there's a sequence in which Zoe tells
    Simon about the Battle of Serenity, in order to give him
    a glimmer of understanding about why Mal is like he is.

    Mark II opens with the Battle of Serenity, and then cuts to
    the salvage operation "six years later". The later expository
    scene between Zoe and Simon is left out because, with the
    opening battle sequence, it's redundant.

    And that's it. The Zoe/Simon scene is included on the DVD
    set as a Deleted Scene, as is an alternate opening sequence
    on the battlefield.

    Bottom line: the pilot wasn't "reshot". The "reshoot" was
    actually simply a shooting of another episode that FOX used
    to premiere the series with.

    -- jayembee
    jayembee, Dec 11, 2003
    #5
  6. Jordan Lund

    jayembee Guest

    (Jordan Lund) wrote:

    > I sat down with the boxed set of Firefly last night and I
    > have to admit, I think Fox did the right thing by bouncing
    > the 2-hour pilot. Yes, it has a lot of the backstory, but
    > in the end Mal comes across like an insufferable prick.
    > He's much softer in the train robbery episode which is
    > what Fox used to launch the series.


    I disagree. I think "Serenity" is a much stronger opening.
    Is Mal an insufferable prick? Sure, I suppose. But that's
    part of what makes it work: he has reasons for being one,
    and what follows helps soften him a bit.

    -- jayembee
    jayembee, Dec 11, 2003
    #6
  7. Jordan Lund

    Biz Guest

    "jayembee" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > (Jordan Lund) wrote:
    >
    > > I sat down with the boxed set of Firefly last night and I
    > > have to admit, I think Fox did the right thing by bouncing
    > > the 2-hour pilot. Yes, it has a lot of the backstory, but
    > > in the end Mal comes across like an insufferable prick.
    > > He's much softer in the train robbery episode which is
    > > what Fox used to launch the series.

    >
    > I disagree. I think "Serenity" is a much stronger opening.
    > Is Mal an insufferable prick? Sure, I suppose. But that's
    > part of what makes it work: he has reasons for being one,
    > and what follows helps soften him a bit.
    >
    > -- jayembee


    I agree with you...The series made much more sense and flowed much better
    after they showed the redone pilot "Serenity"

    FOX screwed the pooch on that one.

    OT, but its gretting really bad these days. NBC has had what I feel are
    some pretty good new shows, compared to all that reality crap, in "The Lyons
    Den", "Boomtown", and even "Mister Sterling", but none of them seem to have
    survived. I dont know what the heck those execs at NBC are thinking...
    Biz, Dec 11, 2003
    #7
  8. Jordan Lund

    Mac Breck Guest

    Re: Firefly Pilot: Fox did the wrong thing...

    "Jordan Lund" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > I sat down with the boxed set of Firefly last night and I

    have to
    > admit, I think Fox did the right thing by bouncing the

    2-hour pilot.
    > Yes, it has a lot of the backstory, but in the end Mal

    comes across
    > like an insufferable prick.


    Hardly an insufferable prick. I know a few of those, and
    Mal, in "Serenity" isn't even close.


    > He's much softer in the train robbery
    > episode which is what Fox


    ....idiotically...

    > used to launch the series.



    > Part of what made me like the series so much was Mal's

    attitude ("What
    > happened in the engine room? Was it monkeys? Giant space

    monkeys?")
    > and that was almost completely absent from the 2-hour

    pilot.

    The pilot starts off in a war, and even there Mal used
    humor. Then they jump to six years later, and they're very
    tight on cash, and not much is going right. Then they pick
    up passengers, passengers who could be nosing around their
    illegal cargo, and one of whom turns out to be an Alliance
    mole. Again, not much is going right. Ever known somebody
    who snapped at you when under stress? It's understandable.
    Also, it takes awhile for everybody to become comfortable
    with each other. Naturally, "Serenity" should have gone
    first, *not* the one where they already getting used to each
    other.

    --
    Mac Breck (KoshN) - from the desktop PC
    -------------------------------
    http://www.scifi.com/babylon5/
    http://www.scifi.com/crusade/
    http://www.scifi.com/bboard/browse.cgi/1/5/1521 (Brimstone)
    Mac Breck, Dec 11, 2003
    #8
  9. Jordan Lund

    Rob Wynne Guest

    In alt.tv.firefly jayembee <> wrote:
    >Mark II opens with the Battle of Serenity, and then cuts to
    >the salvage operation "six years later". The later expository
    >scene between Zoe and Simon is left out because, with the
    >opening battle sequence, it's redundant.
    >


    I don't know that it was, actually. Yes, the opening sequence is a much
    better example of show-don't-tell, but I really liked the reinforcement
    of it, and also the imparting to *Simon* about why Mal is the way he is.

    But then, I just really liked the scene.

    -R

    --
    Rob Wynne / The Autographed Cat /
    http://www.autographedcat.com/ / http://autographedcat.livejournal.com/
    Gafilk 2004: Jan 9-11, 2004, Atlanta, GA -- http://www.gafilk.org/
    Rob Wynne, Dec 11, 2003
    #9
  10. Jordan Lund

    Jordan Lund Guest

    "C.O.Jones" <> wrote in message news:<101220031305153573%>...

    > You do know that this was not the original, unseen pilot?


    From what I understand the original pilot was even more humorless so
    again, I don't see it as a bad thing that Fox shelved it. If I had
    watched Firefly for the first time and thought Mal was an asshole I
    wouldn't have watched it again. The Train Job showed a Mal to be very
    likeable.

    I mean, would Star Trek have gone on to be what it is if everyone
    hated Kirk? Of course not and I don't think Firefly would have the
    nascent fan-base that it does now if the 2 hour pilot had been the
    intro to the series.

    - Jordan
    Jordan Lund, Dec 11, 2003
    #10
  11. Jordan Lund

    C.O.Jones Guest

    In article
    <XC5Cb.436858$>, Biz
    <> wrote:


    > I agree with you...The series made much more sense and flowed much better
    > after they showed the redone pilot "Serenity"
    >
    > FOX screwed the pooch on that one.
    >
    > OT, but its gretting really bad these days. NBC has had what I feel are
    > some pretty good new shows, compared to all that reality crap, in "The Lyons
    > Den", "Boomtown", and even "Mister Sterling", but none of them seem to have
    > survived. I dont know what the heck those execs at NBC are thinking...
    >

    Obviously, they are thinking that they are Fox executives...

    CoJ
    C.O.Jones, Dec 11, 2003
    #11
  12. Jordan Lund

    C.O.Jones Guest

    In article <>, Jordan
    Lund <> wrote:

    > "C.O.Jones" <> wrote in message
    > news:<101220031305153573%>...
    >
    > > You do know that this was not the original, unseen pilot?

    >
    > From what I understand the original pilot was even more humorless so
    > again, I don't see it as a bad thing that Fox shelved it. If I had
    > watched Firefly for the first time and thought Mal was an asshole I
    > wouldn't have watched it again. The Train Job showed a Mal to be very
    > likeable.


    You seem to be in the extreme minority here. But that's ok. The great
    thing about a DVD set is that you can watch them in any order you like.
    I believe I get a better flow watching Serenity first. By the way,
    technically, I think JAYNE is a bigger asshole than Mal, and I think
    Jayne is GREAT!

    > I mean, would Star Trek have gone on to be what it is if everyone
    > hated Kirk?


    I thought everyone DID hate Kirk?!

    > Of course not


    Your opinion, and very much debatable.

    > and I don't think Firefly would have the
    > nascent fan-base that it does now if the 2 hour pilot had been the
    > intro to the series.


    I agree with you there! If the Pilot had been shown first, instead of
    last, I believe that Firefly would have been WAY more successful.

    CoJ
    C.O.Jones, Dec 11, 2003
    #12
  13. Jordan Lund

    Mac Breck Guest

    "Biz" <> wrote in message
    news:XC5Cb.436858$...
    >
    > "jayembee" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > (Jordan Lund) wrote:
    > >
    > > > I sat down with the boxed set of Firefly last night

    and I
    > > > have to admit, I think Fox did the right thing by

    bouncing
    > > > the 2-hour pilot. Yes, it has a lot of the backstory,

    but
    > > > in the end Mal comes across like an insufferable

    prick.
    > > > He's much softer in the train robbery episode which is
    > > > what Fox used to launch the series.

    > >
    > > I disagree. I think "Serenity" is a much stronger

    opening.
    > > Is Mal an insufferable prick? Sure, I suppose. But

    that's
    > > part of what makes it work: he has reasons for being

    one,
    > > and what follows helps soften him a bit.
    > >
    > > -- jayembee

    >
    > I agree with you...The series made much more sense and

    flowed much better
    > after they showed the redone pilot "Serenity"
    >
    > FOX screwed the pooch on that one.


    No doubt about it. It's a manuever they have down pat.

    > OT, but its gretting really bad these days. NBC has had

    what I feel are
    > some pretty good new shows, compared to all that reality

    crap, in "The Lyons
    > Den", "Boomtown", and even "Mister Sterling", but none of

    them seem to have
    > survived. I dont know what the heck those execs at NBC

    are thinking...

    At least we're getting three previously unaired "Boomtown"
    episodes on 12/27. :D

    --
    Mac Breck (KoshN) - from the desktop PC
    -------------------------------
    http://www.scifi.com/babylon5/
    http://www.scifi.com/crusade/
    http://www.scifi.com/bboard/browse.cgi/1/5/1521 (Brimstone)
    Mac Breck, Dec 11, 2003
    #13
  14. In article <>,
    Jordan Lund <> wrote:
    >"C.O.Jones" <> wrote in message news:<101220031305153573%>...
    >
    >> You do know that this was not the original, unseen pilot?

    >
    >From what I understand the original pilot was even more humorless so
    >again, I don't see it as a bad thing that Fox shelved it. If I had
    >watched Firefly for the first time and thought Mal was an asshole I
    >wouldn't have watched it again. The Train Job showed a Mal to be very
    >likeable.
    >
    >I mean, would Star Trek have gone on to be what it is if everyone
    >hated Kirk? Of course not and I don't think Firefly would have the
    >nascent fan-base that it does now if the 2 hour pilot had been the
    >intro to the series.


    Hmm... possibly. I hated The Train Job, and didn't enjoy Bushwacked,
    so it came as a great surprise to me when the third episode was good,
    and they kept getting better after that.

    I watched The Train Job last night, and after knowing the characters
    more (from Serenity, and of course later episodes), I actually liked
    it a lot. I suspect that knowing the characters better by seeing the
    pilot would have made me appreciate The Train Job more, instead of
    making me almost give up on the show entirely.


    --
    Aaron Brezenski
    Not speaking for my employer in any way.
    Aaron Brezenski, Dec 11, 2003
    #14
  15. Jordan Lund

    Justin Guest

    Biz wrote on [Thu, 11 Dec 2003 21:48:39 GMT]:
    >
    > OT, but its gretting really bad these days. NBC has had what I feel are
    > some pretty good new shows, compared to all that reality crap, in "The Lyons
    > Den", "Boomtown", and even "Mister Sterling", but none of them seem to have
    > survived. I dont know what the heck those execs at NBC are thinking...


    They're thinking "Well damn, these shows didn't become the ratings
    gatherers we'd hoped them to be. We don't care about the content of our
    shows, just that they bring in lots of ad revenue. Nevermind that dramas
    need to BUILD an audience over TIME."
    Justin, Dec 12, 2003
    #15
  16. Jordan Lund

    Smaug69 Guest

    (Jordan Lund) wrote in message news:<>...
    > I sat down with the boxed set of Firefly last night and I have to
    > admit, I think Fox did the right thing by bouncing the 2-hour pilot.


    I completely disagree. They bounced the pilot so that it ended up
    being the last thing they broadcast and it was where we were
    introduced to all the characters. That is just ridiculous. Fox screwed
    up big time. If the pilot had been shown first, the series might have
    actually survived its first season. It's just another typical shithead
    move by the Fux Network.

    Smaug69
    Smaug69, Dec 12, 2003
    #16
  17. Jordan Lund

    Smaug69 Guest

    (Jordan Lund) wrote in message news:<>...
    > "C.O.Jones" <> wrote in message news:<101220031305153573%>...
    >
    > > You do know that this was not the original, unseen pilot?

    >
    > From what I understand the original pilot was even more humorless so
    > again,


    There is almost no difference between the first pilot and the one that
    was aired. Someone else in this thread pointed out the differences.

    Smaug69
    Smaug69, Dec 12, 2003
    #17
  18. Jordan Lund

    Justin Guest

    Smaug69 wrote on [11 Dec 2003 20:52:10 -0800]:
    > (Jordan Lund) wrote in message news:<>...
    >> I sat down with the boxed set of Firefly last night and I have to
    >> admit, I think Fox did the right thing by bouncing the 2-hour pilot.

    >
    > I completely disagree. They bounced the pilot so that it ended up
    > being the last thing they broadcast and it was where we were
    > introduced to all the characters. That is just ridiculous. Fox screwed
    > up big time. If the pilot had been shown first, the series might have
    > actually survived its first season. It's just another typical shithead
    > move by the Fux Network.


    Throw in the rest of the weird airing order....and the Friday night
    airing.

    Remember how they really messed up the SA:AB airing? Preemptions, moving
    around the schedule...
    Justin, Dec 12, 2003
    #18
  19. Jordan Lund

    AceoHearts Guest

    Buffy the Vampire Slayer was not a ratings king the first season, but it was
    given time to grow and it really worked.

    AceOhearts
    AceoHearts, Dec 12, 2003
    #19
  20. Jordan Lund

    Stan Brown Guest

    Stan Brown, Dec 12, 2003
    #20
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