Finding DVD-RAM best format

Discussion in 'DVD Video' started by jttsonlygirl@yahoo.com, Jul 9, 2005.

  1. Guest

    A while back I was having trouble storing shows in my DVD Recorder's
    hard drive. Eventually, if a show was stored inside the machine for
    too long, a portion of an episode would become warped for about a seond
    or two. I wasn't ready to permenantly record specific shows out of my
    hard drive onto DVD-R.

    So I started relying on DVD-RAM discs where you can transfer the shows
    exactly as is onto disc in the high speed mode storing them on the disc
    for months (if needed) and copy them back into your hard drive in the
    high speed mode losing no quality whatsoever.

    You can not do this using DVD-R or DVD+R discs.
    Once the show is recorded on that disc, the best you can do is
    duplicate the disc with a DVD burner.

    Using this method of storing shows on DVD-RAM discs, I began finding
    myself relying on this method as the sole method I chose to use. If I
    wanted only one episode from one of the discs or one music video, or
    even just one commercial, it was easy to transfer the exact data from
    the DVD-RAM disc without losing any quality at all whatsoever.

    Not the same when you are copying from DVD-R or DVD+R discs. The new
    recording loses a generation when making copies of something.

    The only setbacks:
    1. DVD-RAM discs cost about $3.40 (with tax) since usually they are
    found in a pack of 3 for $10.
    DVD-R & DVD+R discs are usually less than a buck when bought in bulk.

    2. There are virtually no DVD-RAM players on the market to play these
    discs on. (Actually, there are: I just bought one at Wal-Mart for $75
    by (-practically the only manufacturer pushing the DVD-RAM format-)
    Panasonic.) Disc-wise, I've found 3 manufacturers: Panasonic, Maxell,
    Fuji-film. (There may be more, I just haven't seen them.)

    So now, I've solved problem #2 with playing discs in the living room.

    I have also bought an external DVD burner for the PC that reads and
    records on DVD-RAM discs. So I should be able to read the contents on
    my DVD-RAM discs through my computer now and do whatever I want to
    software-wise with the contents then put it back onto the DVD-RAM disc.

    Note: DVD-RAM discs are erasable. You can erase the whole disc or take
    a show off the disc and replace it with another.

    Perhaps if more people bought into the DVD-RAM format like I have
    (currently have bought over 300 DVD-RAM discs in the past 2 months) the
    price would come down more.

    IMO, it is indeed the best method of storing shows on as far as the
    DVD-R & DVD+R discs are concerned.
    Aside from it being the easiest copy-back method, the surface of the
    DVD-RAM disc is more durable than DVD-R/DVD+R discs.
    DVD-RAM discs contain a special "Anti-Scratch Protection" coating that
    other disc formats do not have.
    Panasonic claims the coating to be 96% protected against scratches.

    Also there is the question as to how long the recording side on DVD-R
    and DVD+R discs will last time-wise. I've had some edges seem like
    they are starting to want to peel. I would say we'll see what shape
    that disc is in 5 years from now but DVD may no longer be the dominant
    format used by then.

    I don't want this post to sound like everyone should switch to the
    DVD-RAM format simply because I say it's the best. Only that I found
    it to be the best in my situation. Several times, I wanted to copy
    something "as is" off a disc to do something else with it and found
    that I was out of luck doing so with other DVD formats while trying to
    maintain the exact same quality.

    Now if somebody wants a specific show from one of my DVD-RAM discs, I
    just pull out the disc, quickly copy it into my hard drive in the
    high-speed mode, then quickly copy it for them onto DVD-R in the high
    speed mode and they have the exact same quality I have of the program.

    Another drawback is, right now the DVD burner companies are really
    pushing the new DVD+R-DL (Double Layered) format.
    The only drawback is the discs are around $10 each but stores twice as
    much content---which also makes the disc risk twice as high.

    Just when everyone (especially Panasonic) thought the DVD-R format
    would be the dominant format, thus forth producing a more durable
    format with easy copying capability, the DVD+ format hits them with the
    Double Layered format---something the (-) format can not produce
    because (-) means "Single Layered" only, even when included with the
    RAM format.

    So now, I just need to sit back and wait for the RAM format to produce
    their double layered discs.
     
    , Jul 9, 2005
    #1
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  2. Baz Guest

    Ummmm....
    What's wrong with using DVD+/-RW discs?
    They're cheap.

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >A while back I was having trouble storing shows in my DVD Recorder's
    > hard drive. Eventually, if a show was stored inside the machine for
    > too long, a portion of an episode would become warped for about a seond
    > or two. I wasn't ready to permenantly record specific shows out of my
    > hard drive onto DVD-R.
    >
    > So I started relying on DVD-RAM discs where you can transfer the shows
    > exactly as is onto disc in the high speed mode storing them on the disc
    > for months (if needed) and copy them back into your hard drive in the
    > high speed mode losing no quality whatsoever.
    >
    > You can not do this using DVD-R or DVD+R discs.
    > Once the show is recorded on that disc, the best you can do is
    > duplicate the disc with a DVD burner.
    >
    > Using this method of storing shows on DVD-RAM discs, I began finding
    > myself relying on this method as the sole method I chose to use. If I
    > wanted only one episode from one of the discs or one music video, or
    > even just one commercial, it was easy to transfer the exact data from
    > the DVD-RAM disc without losing any quality at all whatsoever.
    >
    > Not the same when you are copying from DVD-R or DVD+R discs. The new
    > recording loses a generation when making copies of something.
    >
    > The only setbacks:
    > 1. DVD-RAM discs cost about $3.40 (with tax) since usually they are
    > found in a pack of 3 for $10.
    > DVD-R & DVD+R discs are usually less than a buck when bought in bulk.
    >
    > 2. There are virtually no DVD-RAM players on the market to play these
    > discs on. (Actually, there are: I just bought one at Wal-Mart for $75
    > by (-practically the only manufacturer pushing the DVD-RAM format-)
    > Panasonic.) Disc-wise, I've found 3 manufacturers: Panasonic, Maxell,
    > Fuji-film. (There may be more, I just haven't seen them.)
    >
    > So now, I've solved problem #2 with playing discs in the living room.
    >
    > I have also bought an external DVD burner for the PC that reads and
    > records on DVD-RAM discs. So I should be able to read the contents on
    > my DVD-RAM discs through my computer now and do whatever I want to
    > software-wise with the contents then put it back onto the DVD-RAM disc.
    >
    > Note: DVD-RAM discs are erasable. You can erase the whole disc or take
    > a show off the disc and replace it with another.
    >
    > Perhaps if more people bought into the DVD-RAM format like I have
    > (currently have bought over 300 DVD-RAM discs in the past 2 months) the
    > price would come down more.
    >
    > IMO, it is indeed the best method of storing shows on as far as the
    > DVD-R & DVD+R discs are concerned.
    > Aside from it being the easiest copy-back method, the surface of the
    > DVD-RAM disc is more durable than DVD-R/DVD+R discs.
    > DVD-RAM discs contain a special "Anti-Scratch Protection" coating that
    > other disc formats do not have.
    > Panasonic claims the coating to be 96% protected against scratches.
    >
    > Also there is the question as to how long the recording side on DVD-R
    > and DVD+R discs will last time-wise. I've had some edges seem like
    > they are starting to want to peel. I would say we'll see what shape
    > that disc is in 5 years from now but DVD may no longer be the dominant
    > format used by then.
    >
    > I don't want this post to sound like everyone should switch to the
    > DVD-RAM format simply because I say it's the best. Only that I found
    > it to be the best in my situation. Several times, I wanted to copy
    > something "as is" off a disc to do something else with it and found
    > that I was out of luck doing so with other DVD formats while trying to
    > maintain the exact same quality.
    >
    > Now if somebody wants a specific show from one of my DVD-RAM discs, I
    > just pull out the disc, quickly copy it into my hard drive in the
    > high-speed mode, then quickly copy it for them onto DVD-R in the high
    > speed mode and they have the exact same quality I have of the program.
    >
    > Another drawback is, right now the DVD burner companies are really
    > pushing the new DVD+R-DL (Double Layered) format.
    > The only drawback is the discs are around $10 each but stores twice as
    > much content---which also makes the disc risk twice as high.
    >
    > Just when everyone (especially Panasonic) thought the DVD-R format
    > would be the dominant format, thus forth producing a more durable
    > format with easy copying capability, the DVD+ format hits them with the
    > Double Layered format---something the (-) format can not produce
    > because (-) means "Single Layered" only, even when included with the
    > RAM format.
    >
    > So now, I just need to sit back and wait for the RAM format to produce
    > their double layered discs.
    >
     
    Baz, Jul 9, 2005
    #2
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  3. Guest

    ~ Ummmm....
    What's wrong with using DVD+/-RW discs?
    They're cheap. ~

    Well, the whole point of me wanting to use RAM discs is to copy the
    programs "as is" back into my DVD Recorder's hard drive when needed.

    Can that be done with DVD+/-RW discs?
     
    , Jul 9, 2005
    #3
  4. Impmon Guest

    On 9 Jul 2005 00:55:59 -0700, wrote:

    >You can not do this using DVD-R or DVD+R discs.
    >Once the show is recorded on that disc, the best you can do is
    >duplicate the disc with a DVD burner.


    I don't know where you have been in the past couple years but there
    are -RW and +RW that you can erase and reuse several times.

    I don't know how your player reads back the -/+ RW but if it works the
    same way as DVD-RAM then it should be able to record it back to the
    hard drive with no change in quality. It's not like copying from
    analog tape, the data are already in digital format. I don't know why
    you would have trouble getting the -/+R back to the hard drive.
    --
    When you hear the toilet flush, and hear the words "uh oh", it's already
    too late. - by anonymous Mother in Austin, TX
    To reply, replace digi.mon with phreaker.net
     
    Impmon, Jul 9, 2005
    #4
  5. P Pron Guest

    Impmon wrote:
    || On 9 Jul 2005 00:55:59 -0700, wrote:
    ||
    ||| You can not do this using DVD-R or DVD+R discs.
    ||| Once the show is recorded on that disc, the best you can do is
    ||| duplicate the disc with a DVD burner.
    ||
    || I don't know where you have been in the past couple years but there
    || are -RW and +RW that you can erase and reuse several times.
    ||
    || I don't know how your player reads back the -/+ RW but if it works
    || the same way as DVD-RAM then it should be able to record it back to
    || the hard drive with no change in quality. It's not like copying from
    || analog tape, the data are already in digital format. I don't know
    || why you would have trouble getting the -/+R back to the hard drive.


    I have a Toshiba HD/DVD-RAM/DVD-R/RW recorder and I don't know where you've
    been for the last couple of years but _it will not let you_ record from
    DVD-R/RW back to the hard disc.

    It appears that, rather than add circuitry to detect the difference between
    commercial and home-produced DVDs, it simply refuses to allow copying of all
    but discs with DVD-RAM file structure. Once you have copied an HD file to
    DVD-RW, and deleted the original, the only things the machine will let you
    do are to play the disc or reformat it for re-use.

    paul
     
    P Pron, Jul 9, 2005
    #5
  6. In article <>,
    "P Pron" <> writes:
    > Impmon wrote:
    >|| On 9 Jul 2005 00:55:59 -0700, wrote:
    >||
    >||| You can not do this using DVD-R or DVD+R discs.
    >||| Once the show is recorded on that disc, the best you can do is
    >||| duplicate the disc with a DVD burner.
    >||
    >|| I don't know where you have been in the past couple years but there
    >|| are -RW and +RW that you can erase and reuse several times.
    >||
    >|| I don't know how your player reads back the -/+ RW but if it works
    >|| the same way as DVD-RAM then it should be able to record it back to
    >|| the hard drive with no change in quality. It's not like copying from
    >|| analog tape, the data are already in digital format. I don't know
    >|| why you would have trouble getting the -/+R back to the hard drive.
    >
    >
    > I have a Toshiba HD/DVD-RAM/DVD-R/RW recorder and I don't know where you've
    > been for the last couple of years but _it will not let you_ record from
    > DVD-R/RW back to the hard disc.
    >
    > It appears that, rather than add circuitry to detect the difference between
    > commercial and home-produced DVDs, it simply refuses to allow copying of all
    > but discs with DVD-RAM file structure. Once you have copied an HD file to
    > DVD-RW, and deleted the original, the only things the machine will let you
    > do are to play the disc or reformat it for re-use.


    And I also have a Toshiba HD/DVD-RAM/DVD-R/RW recorder and it
    certainly does allow coping from DVD-R and DVD-R/W that were created
    by it. I do it all the time. Mine is a model RD-XS32SU and the "High
    Speed Dubbing" option on the popup Quick Menu of the Content Menu mode
    lets you copy Titles or Chapters to the hard disk which can then be
    recorded to DVD. It will not allow this with DVDs that were not
    created by it though.
     
    David E. Bath, Jul 9, 2005
    #6
  7. P Pron Guest

    David E. Bath wrote:
    || In article <>,
    || "P Pron" <> writes:
    ||| Impmon wrote:
    ||||| On 9 Jul 2005 00:55:59 -0700, wrote:
    |||||
    |||||| You can not do this using DVD-R or DVD+R discs.
    |||||| Once the show is recorded on that disc, the best you can do is
    |||||| duplicate the disc with a DVD burner.
    |||||
    ||||| I don't know where you have been in the past couple years but
    ||||| there are -RW and +RW that you can erase and reuse several times.
    |||||
    ||||| I don't know how your player reads back the -/+ RW but if it works
    ||||| the same way as DVD-RAM then it should be able to record it back
    ||||| to the hard drive with no change in quality. It's not like
    ||||| copying from analog tape, the data are already in digital format.
    ||||| I don't know why you would have trouble getting the -/+R back to
    ||||| the hard drive.
    |||
    |||
    ||| I have a Toshiba HD/DVD-RAM/DVD-R/RW recorder and I don't know
    ||| where you've been for the last couple of years but _it will not let
    ||| you_ record from DVD-R/RW back to the hard disc.
    |||
    ||| It appears that, rather than add circuitry to detect the difference
    ||| between commercial and home-produced DVDs, it simply refuses to
    ||| allow copying of all but discs with DVD-RAM file structure. Once
    ||| you have copied an HD file to DVD-RW, and deleted the original, the
    ||| only things the machine will let you do are to play the disc or
    ||| reformat it for re-use.
    ||
    || And I also have a Toshiba HD/DVD-RAM/DVD-R/RW recorder and it
    || certainly does allow coping from DVD-R and DVD-R/W that were created
    || by it. I do it all the time. Mine is a model RD-XS32SU and the "High
    || Speed Dubbing" option on the popup Quick Menu of the Content Menu
    || mode lets you copy Titles or Chapters to the hard disk which can
    || then be recorded to DVD. It will not allow this with DVDs that were
    || not created by it though.

    Mine's the 32SB (UK model) and it doesn't....

    paul
     
    P Pron, Jul 9, 2005
    #7
  8. Guest

    David, I pretty much examined your manual for this machine at:

    http://tacpservice.toshiba.com/ConsumerProductSupport/Manuals/dvr/rd-xs32_om_e.pdf

    and on Page 103 is the Table where it does show where Quick Speed
    dubbing (allowing the exact data transfer) from DVD-RW to HDD is
    allowed as long as the DVD-RW content was recorded on your machine.

    On page 47 of my Panasonic DMR E85H manual, it says:
    "This unit does not record or play DVD-RW."
    These machines plays/records DVD-R, DVD-RAM discs only and plays (does
    not record) CD-R, CD-RW and that's it.

    So I am stuck in the RAM situation for now.
    But I like the "film side" of the RAM discs better anyway.

    It's also good to know another manufacturer is supporting the DVD-RAM
    recording to ensure it's future sirvival for me to continue finding
    discs for mine.

    I also forgot that TDK is another producer of RAM discs.
     
    , Jul 10, 2005
    #8
  9. Guest

    I did a little more investigating & found that DVD-RW discs cost only
    half the price of a DVD-RAM disc, which are far more durable containing
    a protective coating regular discs do not.

    I also thought about buying one of these Toshiba XS32's but I found out
    this from a few videophiles:
    ---------------------
    "It is also fairly easy to then transfer your recordings from the HDD
    to a DVD disc. However, when you play those discs on a DVD player other
    than the XS32 the pictures don't look so good, and that's the bad
    news....
    The black level bug that has been discussed in several other reviews,
    here and on other forums, is very real. DVD disc recordings that I made
    looked great on the Toshiba, but they would not play at all on one of
    the other DVD players we own nor would they play on the kid's
    PlayStation. The discs did play on the DVD player I use most of the
    time in our family room, on my computer and on a few of the other
    players I tried, but the images in all but one of these players were
    very bright and "washed out". I tried both DVD-R and DVD-RW discs. I
    tried using different brands of media and I tried most of the other
    settings and suggestions I read in the technical forums. Nothing
    significantly changed the image black level problem.
    If your only recorder and player is the Toshiba RD-XS32 then I think
    you will be very satisfied with the performance of this unit. If
    Toshiba could fix the black level issue the XS32 would be awesome. But,
    my reason for wanting a DVD recorder was to make discs that could be
    portable and played in other players without problems or hassles, like
    VHS tapes use to be. In this respect the Toshiba has failed and that is
    why I am returning the unit."

    ------------------------

    Another user mentioned that after a few months of using their Toshiba
    XS32, they were disatisfied and tried to return it but found out
    Toshiba has discontinued the product.

    Maybe there are other DVD Recorder brands where you can copy using the
    High Speed Transferring of the data with DVD-RW disc, but rather than
    changing machines to switch to a different disc format, I think I will
    stick to the one with the more durable recording surface.

    Panasonic seems pretty committed at continuing to upgrade this line of
    machines & I already know my way around all the bugs involved.
     
    , Jul 10, 2005
    #9
  10. Java Jive Guest

    And also, if your Panasonic is anything like mine, recording to DVD-R can
    only be done in 4:3.

    <> wrote in message
    news:...

    > On page 47 of my Panasonic DMR E85H manual, it says:
     
    Java Jive, Jul 10, 2005
    #10
  11. In article <>,
    writes:
    > I did a little more investigating & found that DVD-RW discs cost only
    > half the price of a DVD-RAM disc, which are far more durable containing
    > a protective coating regular discs do not.
    >
    > I also thought about buying one of these Toshiba XS32's but I found out
    > this from a few videophiles:
    > ---------------------
    > "It is also fairly easy to then transfer your recordings from the HDD
    > to a DVD disc. However, when you play those discs on a DVD player other
    > than the XS32 the pictures don't look so good, and that's the bad
    > news....
    > The black level bug that has been discussed in several other reviews,
    > here and on other forums, is very real. DVD disc recordings that I made
    > looked great on the Toshiba, but they would not play at all on one of
    > the other DVD players we own nor would they play on the kid's
    > PlayStation. The discs did play on the DVD player I use most of the
    > time in our family room, on my computer and on a few of the other
    > players I tried, but the images in all but one of these players were
    > very bright and "washed out". I tried both DVD-R and DVD-RW discs. I
    > tried using different brands of media and I tried most of the other
    > settings and suggestions I read in the technical forums. Nothing
    > significantly changed the image black level problem.
    > If your only recorder and player is the Toshiba RD-XS32 then I think
    > you will be very satisfied with the performance of this unit. If
    > Toshiba could fix the black level issue the XS32 would be awesome. But,
    > my reason for wanting a DVD recorder was to make discs that could be
    > portable and played in other players without problems or hassles, like
    > VHS tapes use to be. In this respect the Toshiba has failed and that is
    > why I am returning the unit."
    >
    > ------------------------
    >
    > Another user mentioned that after a few months of using their Toshiba
    > XS32, they were disatisfied and tried to return it but found out
    > Toshiba has discontinued the product.
    >
    > Maybe there are other DVD Recorder brands where you can copy using the
    > High Speed Transferring of the data with DVD-RW disc, but rather than
    > changing machines to switch to a different disc format, I think I will
    > stick to the one with the more durable recording surface.
    >
    > Panasonic seems pretty committed at continuing to upgrade this line of
    > machines & I already know my way around all the bugs involved.


    I disagree totally with these reports as I often copy directly from my
    Dishnetwork DVR and the playback from the Toshiba hard disk and the
    DVDs recorded from it are identical as long as the recording speed is
    sufficient. But the DVD always matches the Hard disk version exactly.
    I do use S-video connections for all of the recording and comparisons,
    so maybe that has something to do with it.

    I do advise anyone in the market for a DVD recorder to get one that
    has a hard disk and the ability to record to both R and R/W DVDs at a
    minimum.
     
    David E. Bath, Jul 10, 2005
    #11
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