Film SLR Flash unit on a Digital SLR - Possible?

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by alex, Jun 18, 2006.

  1. alex

    alex Guest

    Had an opportunity today to buy a second-hand flash unit that was TTL
    compatible with Canon EOS Film SLRs. I thought this would simply work on my
    350D and might be a bit of a bargain...

    The guy there said that it wouldn't work because the frequencies (??) were
    all different and that all photos would come out completely white...

    Is this true or not? I thought TTL was a standard (certainly on Canon
    compatible) and that if the Flash supported it and was compatible with the
    connector itself, all would work fine.

    Look forward to your responses, as this would be a good bargain if it did
    work.

    Regards

    Alex
     
    alex, Jun 18, 2006
    #1
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  2. alex

    Bob Salomon Guest

    In article <>,
    "alex" <> wrote:

    > Had an opportunity today to buy a second-hand flash unit that was TTL
    > compatible with Canon EOS Film SLRs. I thought this would simply work on my
    > 350D and might be a bit of a bargain...
    >
    > The guy there said that it wouldn't work because the frequencies (??) were
    > all different and that all photos would come out completely white...
    >
    > Is this true or not? I thought TTL was a standard (certainly on Canon
    > compatible) and that if the Flash supported it and was compatible with the
    > connector itself, all would work fine.
    >
    > Look forward to your responses, as this would be a good bargain if it did
    > work.
    >
    > Regards
    >
    > Alex


    Should work fine but the old flash may not allow all of the flash
    functions on your camera. Both your camera and the camera the flash was
    made for have X synch.

    That is what controls the timing of the firing of the flash so the
    shutter is fully open at the time it fires.

    --
    To reply no_ HPMarketing Corp.
     
    Bob Salomon, Jun 18, 2006
    #2
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  3. alex

    alex Guest

    "Bob Salomon" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > In article <>,
    > "alex" <> wrote:
    >
    >> Had an opportunity today to buy a second-hand flash unit that was TTL
    >> compatible with Canon EOS Film SLRs. I thought this would simply work on
    >> my
    >> 350D and might be a bit of a bargain...
    >>
    >> The guy there said that it wouldn't work because the frequencies (??)
    >> were
    >> all different and that all photos would come out completely white...
    >>
    >> Is this true or not? I thought TTL was a standard (certainly on Canon
    >> compatible) and that if the Flash supported it and was compatible with
    >> the
    >> connector itself, all would work fine.
    >>
    >> Look forward to your responses, as this would be a good bargain if it did
    >> work.
    >>
    >> Regards
    >>
    >> Alex

    >
    > Should work fine but the old flash may not allow all of the flash
    > functions on your camera. Both your camera and the camera the flash was
    > made for have X synch.
    >
    > That is what controls the timing of the firing of the flash so the
    > shutter is fully open at the time it fires.
    >
    > --
    > To reply no_ HPMarketing Corp.


    Bob, Thanks for the reply. I'm tempted, it was only £35 anyway so as long
    as there's no dangerous voltages or anything, would be a good starter flash
    and then as I need the extra functions I can upgrade to a 420/30EX with the
    bells & whilstles.

    Cheers

    Akex
     
    alex, Jun 18, 2006
    #3
  4. alex

    Pat Guest

    Stop Immediately before you use that flash. It is the voltages that
    are different.

    Some, but not all, older flashes used very high shutter trip voltages
    that were WAY above that the digital cameras can handle. Check the
    trigger voltage before you use it and check you camera's manual to see
    what a safe range is.

    It is possible you could damage your camera, i.e. fry the electonics.

    Give you flash model number an someone might be able to look them up
    for you. Or Google it yourself. Another option would be to check the
    website of the manufacturer (or to contact them)

    Good luck.

    Pat.

    alex wrote:
    > Had an opportunity today to buy a second-hand flash unit that was TTL
    > compatible with Canon EOS Film SLRs. I thought this would simply work on my
    > 350D and might be a bit of a bargain...
    >
    > The guy there said that it wouldn't work because the frequencies (??) were
    > all different and that all photos would come out completely white...
    >
    > Is this true or not? I thought TTL was a standard (certainly on Canon
    > compatible) and that if the Flash supported it and was compatible with the
    > connector itself, all would work fine.
    >
    > Look forward to your responses, as this would be a good bargain if it did
    > work.
    >
    > Regards
    >
    > Alex
     
    Pat, Jun 18, 2006
    #4
  5. alex

    Helen Guest

    "alex" <> wrote in message
    news:eek:...
    > Had an opportunity today to buy a second-hand flash unit that was TTL
    > compatible with Canon EOS Film SLRs. I thought this would simply work on
    > my 350D and might be a bit of a bargain...
    >
    > The guy there said that it wouldn't work because the frequencies (??) were
    > all different and that all photos would come out completely white...
    >


    It's not frequencies that might cause problems. What you have to be careful
    about is the trigger voltage, which is the amount of voltage which passes
    through the camera when you release the shutter. Older flashes could sizzle
    the delicate circuitry of a modern DSLR, which require lower voltages. The
    350D can take a max of 6 volts. Google for "trigger voltage 350d" - that's
    what I did, then find out the trigger voltage for the flash unit you're
    looking at.
    Google is our friend, remember.
    H
     
    Helen, Jun 18, 2006
    #5
  6. alex

    Bob Salomon Guest

    In article <>,
    "alex" <> wrote:

    > "Bob Salomon" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > In article <>,
    > > "alex" <> wrote:
    > >
    > >> Had an opportunity today to buy a second-hand flash unit that was TTL
    > >> compatible with Canon EOS Film SLRs. I thought this would simply work on
    > >> my
    > >> 350D and might be a bit of a bargain...
    > >>
    > >> The guy there said that it wouldn't work because the frequencies (??)
    > >> were
    > >> all different and that all photos would come out completely white...
    > >>
    > >> Is this true or not? I thought TTL was a standard (certainly on Canon
    > >> compatible) and that if the Flash supported it and was compatible with
    > >> the
    > >> connector itself, all would work fine.
    > >>
    > >> Look forward to your responses, as this would be a good bargain if it did
    > >> work.
    > >>
    > >> Regards
    > >>
    > >> Alex

    > >
    > > Should work fine but the old flash may not allow all of the flash
    > > functions on your camera. Both your camera and the camera the flash was
    > > made for have X synch.
    > >
    > > That is what controls the timing of the firing of the flash so the
    > > shutter is fully open at the time it fires.
    > >
    > > --
    > > To reply no_ HPMarketing Corp.

    >
    > Bob, Thanks for the reply. I'm tempted, it was only £35 anyway so as long
    > as there's no dangerous voltages or anything, would be a good starter flash
    > and then as I need the extra functions I can upgrade to a 420/30EX with the
    > bells & whilstles.
    >
    > Cheers
    >
    > Akex


    Synch voltage is a different animal. The old flash could have a high
    synch voltage.

    --
    To reply no_ HPMarketing Corp.
     
    Bob Salomon, Jun 18, 2006
    #6
  7. alex

    Bob Salomon Guest

    In article <>,
    "alex" <> wrote:

    > "Bob Salomon" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > In article <>,
    > > "alex" <> wrote:
    > >
    > >> Had an opportunity today to buy a second-hand flash unit that was TTL
    > >> compatible with Canon EOS Film SLRs. I thought this would simply work on
    > >> my
    > >> 350D and might be a bit of a bargain...
    > >>
    > >> The guy there said that it wouldn't work because the frequencies (??)
    > >> were
    > >> all different and that all photos would come out completely white...
    > >>
    > >> Is this true or not? I thought TTL was a standard (certainly on Canon
    > >> compatible) and that if the Flash supported it and was compatible with
    > >> the
    > >> connector itself, all would work fine.
    > >>
    > >> Look forward to your responses, as this would be a good bargain if it did
    > >> work.
    > >>
    > >> Regards
    > >>
    > >> Alex

    > >
    > > Should work fine but the old flash may not allow all of the flash
    > > functions on your camera. Both your camera and the camera the flash was
    > > made for have X synch.
    > >
    > > That is what controls the timing of the firing of the flash so the
    > > shutter is fully open at the time it fires.
    > >
    > > --
    > > To reply no_ HPMarketing Corp.

    >
    > Bob, Thanks for the reply. I'm tempted, it was only £35 anyway so as long
    > as there's no dangerous voltages or anything, would be a good starter flash
    > and then as I need the extra functions I can upgrade to a 420/30EX with the
    > bells & whilstles.
    >
    > Cheers
    >
    > Akex


    If the flash is a good buy and you have a built-in flash you could
    always fire the new flash by a slave and that way the synch voltage is
    no problem.

    --
    To reply no_ HPMarketing Corp.
     
    Bob Salomon, Jun 18, 2006
    #7
  8. "alex" <> wrote in message
    news:eek:...
    > Had an opportunity today to buy a second-hand flash unit that was TTL
    > compatible with Canon EOS Film SLRs. I thought this would simply work on
    > my 350D and might be a bit of a bargain...
    >
    > The guy there said that it wouldn't work because the frequencies (??) were
    > all different and that all photos would come out completely white...
    >
    > Is this true or not? I thought TTL was a standard (certainly on Canon
    > compatible) and that if the Flash supported it and was compatible with the
    > connector itself, all would work fine.
    >
    > Look forward to your responses, as this would be a good bargain if it did
    > work.
    >
    > Regards
    >
    > Alex

    http://www.botzilla.com/photo/strobeVolts.html
     
    /\\BratMan/\\, Jun 18, 2006
    #8
  9. alex

    alex Guest

    "Bob Salomon" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > In article <>,
    > "alex" <> wrote:
    >
    >> "Bob Salomon" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >> > In article <>,
    >> > "alex" <> wrote:
    >> >
    >> >> Had an opportunity today to buy a second-hand flash unit that was TTL
    >> >> compatible with Canon EOS Film SLRs. I thought this would simply work
    >> >> on
    >> >> my
    >> >> 350D and might be a bit of a bargain...
    >> >>
    >> >> The guy there said that it wouldn't work because the frequencies (??)
    >> >> were
    >> >> all different and that all photos would come out completely white...
    >> >>
    >> >> Is this true or not? I thought TTL was a standard (certainly on Canon
    >> >> compatible) and that if the Flash supported it and was compatible with
    >> >> the
    >> >> connector itself, all would work fine.
    >> >>
    >> >> Look forward to your responses, as this would be a good bargain if it
    >> >> did
    >> >> work.
    >> >>
    >> >> Regards
    >> >>
    >> >> Alex
    >> >
    >> > Should work fine but the old flash may not allow all of the flash
    >> > functions on your camera. Both your camera and the camera the flash was
    >> > made for have X synch.
    >> >
    >> > That is what controls the timing of the firing of the flash so the
    >> > shutter is fully open at the time it fires.
    >> >
    >> > --
    >> > To reply no_ HPMarketing Corp.

    >>
    >> Bob, Thanks for the reply. I'm tempted, it was only £35 anyway so as
    >> long
    >> as there's no dangerous voltages or anything, would be a good starter
    >> flash
    >> and then as I need the extra functions I can upgrade to a 420/30EX with
    >> the
    >> bells & whilstles.
    >>
    >> Cheers
    >>
    >> Akex

    >
    > If the flash is a good buy and you have a built-in flash you could
    > always fire the new flash by a slave and that way the synch voltage is
    > no problem.
    >
    > --
    > To reply no_ HPMarketing Corp.


    Bob,

    Yes that sounds more sensible. Given what the some of the others say, I
    will be very weary of the voltages from now on. Thought they just relates
    to studio strobes etc, but didn't know flash units could produce them as
    well.

    Thanks alot, and thanks to the others in the chain.

    Cheers

    Alex C
     
    alex, Jun 19, 2006
    #9
  10. alex

    wilt Guest

    alex wrote:
    > Had an opportunity today to buy a second-hand flash unit that was TTL
    > compatible with Canon EOS Film SLRs. I thought this would simply work on my
    > 350D and might be a bit of a bargain...
    >
    > The guy there said that it wouldn't work because the frequencies (??) were
    > all different and that all photos would come out completely white...
    >
    > Is this true or not? I thought TTL was a standard (certainly on Canon
    > compatible) and that if the Flash supported it and was compatible with the
    > connector itself, all would work fine.
    >
    > Look forward to your responses, as this would be a good bargain if it did
    > work.
    >
    > Regards
    >
    > Alex


    Besides the synch voltage issue that is mentioned, a fundamental
    problem with getting ETTL automation out of a TTL flash unit is simply
    that the flash is most likely incapable of the preflash needed for
    metering ETTL prior to the exposure!

    TTL flash was metered in real time from the surface of the film and the
    flash was told 'enough light' based on how much light was reflected off
    the film surface as the exposure was made. ETTL, on the other hand,
    uses a preflash which is metered by a sensor in the camera, but is not
    off the surface of the sensor and occurs BEFORE (not during) the actual
    exposure. No preflash, no ETTL automation!
     
    wilt, Jun 19, 2006
    #10
  11. alex

    Eatmorepies Guest

    "alex" <> wrote in message
    news:eek:...
    > Had an opportunity today to buy a second-hand flash unit that was TTL
    > compatible with Canon EOS Film SLRs. I thought this would simply work on
    > my 350D and might be a bit of a bargain...
    >
    > The guy there said that it wouldn't work because the frequencies (??) were
    > all different and that all photos would come out completely white...
    >
    > Is this true or not? I thought TTL was a standard (certainly on Canon
    > compatible) and that if the Flash supported it and was compatible with the
    > connector itself, all would work fine.
    >


    The flash I used with my EOS film camera works on my 350D but only at full
    output. However, with the histogram on your 350D you can see if you are
    calculating the correct exposures.

    John
     
    Eatmorepies, Jun 19, 2006
    #11
  12. "alex" <> writes:
    > Had an opportunity today to buy a second-hand flash unit that was
    > TTL compatible with Canon EOS Film SLRs. I thought this would
    > simply work on my 350D and might be a bit of a bargain...


    It will probably work, but only on fully manual - no TTL metering.
    You might also have to hook it up via a PC-connector adapter or put
    insulating tape over the E-TTL pins in the camera's hotshoe to get it
    to fire (depends on the model).

    This also means that you need to work out the correct aperture from
    distance and GN - or use a flash meter.

    > The guy there said that it wouldn't work because the frequencies
    > (??) were all different and that all photos would come out
    > completely white... Is this true or not?


    His explanation is bogus, but its true that using this flash with a
    digital camera is not as straightforward as a modern flash.

    > I thought TTL was a standard (certainly on Canon compatible) and
    > that if the Flash supported it and was compatible with the connector
    > itself, all would work fine.


    Unfortunately not. Canon speedlites has at various times used TTL,
    A-TTL and E-TTL (II). These are not compatible. Your EOS 350D uses
    E-TTL II, and will not work with TTl or A-TTL.

    > Look forward to your responses, as this would be a good bargain if
    > it did work.


    If you are ooking for a bargain, you'll actually better of getting
    a non-dedicated "auto" flash like Sunpak 383 Super. If you buy
    second hand, you need to be careful about trigger voltage.

    Here is a page about buying flash for a Canon digicam:
    http://hannemyr.com/photo/flash.html
    In particular:
    http://hannemyr.com/photo/flash.html#ezex
    --
    - gisle hannemyr [ gisle{at}hannemyr.no - http://hannemyr.com/photo/ ]
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Sigma SD10, Kodak DCS460, Canon Powershot G5, Olympus 2020Z
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
     
    Gisle Hannemyr, Jun 20, 2006
    #12
  13. alex

    alex Guest

    "/\BratMan/\" <> wrote in message
    news:4495cfdf$...
    >
    > "alex" <> wrote in message
    > news:eek:...
    >> Had an opportunity today to buy a second-hand flash unit that was TTL
    >> compatible with Canon EOS Film SLRs. I thought this would simply work on
    >> my 350D and might be a bit of a bargain...
    >>
    >> The guy there said that it wouldn't work because the frequencies (??)
    >> were all different and that all photos would come out completely white...
    >>
    >> Is this true or not? I thought TTL was a standard (certainly on Canon
    >> compatible) and that if the Flash supported it and was compatible with
    >> the connector itself, all would work fine.
    >>
    >> Look forward to your responses, as this would be a good bargain if it did
    >> work.
    >>
    >> Regards
    >>
    >> Alex

    > http://www.botzilla.com/photo/strobeVolts.html
    >


    OK went and had another look and decided to follow all your advice.

    Just ordered the 430EX Speedlite for £169.

    Does everything, very impressed with zero light AF beam - also ETTL allows
    Flash zoom and also detects /1.6 reduced frame on my 350D...

    One more Happy Photographer...

    Alex C
     
    alex, Jun 24, 2006
    #13
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