File protection on multimedia hard disks

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by jm.almeras, Jan 24, 2008.

  1. jm.almeras

    jm.almeras Guest

    Hello !

    Is there a solution for storing sound files on a multimedia hard disk and
    not enabling the files to be retrieved ?
    (for example, are there multimedia disks which enable crypting sound files,
    yet allowing to listen to them, or software solutions)

    Here is precisely our need : we are an association and we want to give our
    members access to conferences and concerts by storing these on multimedia
    hard disks which our members will be able to rent.
    The audio content of the files are the property of the association (concerts
    and conferences by members).
    We should wish at least a symbolic protection of the files so that most
    members, if not computer experts, cannot easily retrieve the files from the
    disk.

    All ideas will be highly appreciated !

    Cheers

    Jean-Marie
     
    jm.almeras, Jan 24, 2008
    #1
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  2. In article <4798fb42$0$21145$-internet.fr>, jm.almeras did
    write:

    > Is there a solution for storing sound files on a multimedia hard disk and
    > not enabling the files to be retrieved ?


    Sounds like you want write-only memory
    <http://www.ganssle.com/misc/wom.html>.
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Jan 24, 2008
    #2
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  3. jm.almeras

    sam Guest

    jm.almeras wrote:
    > Hello !
    >
    > Is there a solution for storing sound files on a multimedia hard disk and
    > not enabling the files to be retrieved ?
    > (for example, are there multimedia disks which enable crypting sound files,
    > yet allowing to listen to them, or software solutions)
    >
    > Here is precisely our need : we are an association and we want to give our
    > members access to conferences and concerts by storing these on multimedia
    > hard disks which our members will be able to rent.
    > The audio content of the files are the property of the association (concerts
    > and conferences by members).
    > We should wish at least a symbolic protection of the files so that most
    > members, if not computer experts, cannot easily retrieve the files from the
    > disk.
    >
    > All ideas will be highly appreciated !
    >
    > Cheers
    >
    > Jean-Marie
    >
    >

    Call Sony and ask about their rootkit solution.
     
    sam, Jan 24, 2008
    #3
  4. In article <4798fb42$0$21145$-internet.fr>, jm.almeras did
    write:

    > The audio content of the files are the property of the association
    > (concerts and conferences by members).


    Copyright is not a property right.

    > We should wish at least a symbolic protection of the files so that most
    > members, if not computer experts, cannot easily retrieve the files from
    > the disk.


    All it takes is one person to crack the copy protection, and that's the end
    of it. Doesn't matter if 99.999% of your members are not "computer
    experts".
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Jan 24, 2008
    #4
  5. jm.almeras

    Allistar Guest

    Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

    > In article <4798fb42$0$21145$-internet.fr>, jm.almeras
    > did write:
    >
    >> The audio content of the files are the property of the association
    >> (concerts and conferences by members).

    >
    > Copyright is not a property right.
    >
    >> We should wish at least a symbolic protection of the files so that most
    >> members, if not computer experts, cannot easily retrieve the files from
    >> the disk.

    >
    > All it takes is one person to crack the copy protection, and that's the
    > end of it. Doesn't matter if 99.999% of your members are not "computer
    > experts".


    Indeed. If someone really wants a copy of it themselves they can always plug
    the speaker out into the microphone in and use recording software to record
    it. If it's just voice on the files I reckon you wouldn't notice any
    degradation in quality.
    --
    A.
     
    Allistar, Jan 24, 2008
    #5
  6. jm.almeras

    impossible Guest

    "Allistar" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    >
    >> In article <4798fb42$0$21145$-internet.fr>, jm.almeras
    >> did write:
    >>
    >>> The audio content of the files are the property of the association
    >>> (concerts and conferences by members).

    >>
    >> Copyright is not a property right.
    >>
    >>> We should wish at least a symbolic protection of the files so that most
    >>> members, if not computer experts, cannot easily retrieve the files from
    >>> the disk.

    >>
    >> All it takes is one person to crack the copy protection, and that's the
    >> end of it. Doesn't matter if 99.999% of your members are not "computer
    >> experts".

    >
    > Indeed. If someone really wants a copy of it themselves they can always
    > plug
    > the speaker out into the microphone in and use recording software to
    > record
    > it. If it's just voice on the files I reckon you wouldn't notice any
    > degradation in quality.
    > --


    That's a ciolation of copyright. It's called piracy.
     
    impossible, Jan 25, 2008
    #6
  7. jm.almeras

    impossible Guest

    "sam" <> wrote in message news:47990714$...
    > jm.almeras wrote:
    >> Hello !
    >>
    >> Is there a solution for storing sound files on a multimedia hard disk and
    >> not enabling the files to be retrieved ?
    >> (for example, are there multimedia disks which enable crypting sound
    >> files,
    >> yet allowing to listen to them, or software solutions)
    >>
    >> Here is precisely our need : we are an association and we want to give
    >> our
    >> members access to conferences and concerts by storing these on multimedia
    >> hard disks which our members will be able to rent.
    >> The audio content of the files are the property of the association
    >> (concerts
    >> and conferences by members).
    >> We should wish at least a symbolic protection of the files so that most
    >> members, if not computer experts, cannot easily retrieve the files from
    >> the
    >> disk.
    >>
    >> All ideas will be highly appreciated !
    >>
    >> Cheers
    >>
    >> Jean-Marie

    > Call Sony and ask about their rootkit solution.


    Google ContentGuard, Digimarc, InterTrust, or, generically, "Digital Rights
    Management".
     
    impossible, Jan 25, 2008
    #7
  8. Rob S wrote:
    > On Fri, 25 Jan 2008 10:15:19 +1300
    > Lawrence D'Oliveiro <_zealand> took time out from filleting whitebait to write:
    >
    >> In article <4798fb42$0$21145$-internet.fr>, jm.almeras did
    >> write:
    >>
    >>> Is there a solution for storing sound files on a multimedia hard disk and
    >>> not enabling the files to be retrieved ?

    >> Sounds like you want write-only memory
    >> <http://www.ganssle.com/misc/wom.html>.

    >
    > Don't think so. Sounds like they want their own version of drm. What's the point of putting sound files on a disk if they don't want them listened to? I think the op is mixing up "retrieved" with "copied".
    >
    > Google for drm (digital rights management)


    Hear that wooshing sound ?
     
    Mark Robinson, Jan 25, 2008
    #8
  9. jm.almeras

    Allistar Guest

    impossible wrote:

    > "Allistar" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    >>
    >>> In article <4798fb42$0$21145$-internet.fr>, jm.almeras
    >>> did write:
    >>>
    >>>> The audio content of the files are the property of the association
    >>>> (concerts and conferences by members).
    >>>
    >>> Copyright is not a property right.
    >>>
    >>>> We should wish at least a symbolic protection of the files so that most
    >>>> members, if not computer experts, cannot easily retrieve the files from
    >>>> the disk.
    >>>
    >>> All it takes is one person to crack the copy protection, and that's the
    >>> end of it. Doesn't matter if 99.999% of your members are not "computer
    >>> experts".

    >>
    >> Indeed. If someone really wants a copy of it themselves they can always
    >> plug
    >> the speaker out into the microphone in and use recording software to
    >> record
    >> it. If it's just voice on the files I reckon you wouldn't notice any
    >> degradation in quality.
    >> --

    >
    > That's a ciolation of copyright. It's called piracy.


    Correct. I wasn't justifying it, merely pointing out that if someone really
    wants to copy some audio, then no amount of DRM of encryption will prevent
    them.
    --
    A.
     
    Allistar, Jan 25, 2008
    #9
  10. jm.almeras

    impossible Guest

    "Lawrence D'Oliveiro" <_zealand> wrote in message
    news:fnb599$l5a$...
    > In article <4798fb42$0$21145$-internet.fr>, jm.almeras
    > did
    > write:
    >
    >> The audio content of the files are the property of the association
    >> (concerts and conferences by members).

    >
    > Copyright is not a property right.


    Call it whatever you like. But by virtue of copyright protection, no one is
    permitted to copy, modify, or distribute the association's files without the
    association's permission.

    >
    >> We should wish at least a symbolic protection of the files so that most
    >> members, if not computer experts, cannot easily retrieve the files from
    >> the disk.

    >
    > All it takes is one person to crack the copy protection, and that's the
    > end
    > of it. Doesn't matter if 99.999% of your members are not "computer
    > experts".


    You've made the case for DRM quite convincing, I'd say.
     
    impossible, Jan 25, 2008
    #10
  11. jm.almeras

    dotdash Guest

    impossible wrote:
    > "Lawrence D'Oliveiro" <_zealand> wrote in message
    > news:fnb599$l5a$...
    >> In article <4798fb42$0$21145$-internet.fr>, jm.almeras
    >> did
    >> write:
    >>
    >>> The audio content of the files are the property of the association
    >>> (concerts and conferences by members).

    >> Copyright is not a property right.

    >
    > Call it whatever you like. But by virtue of copyright protection, no one is
    > permitted to copy, modify, or distribute the association's files without the
    > association's permission.
    >
    >>> We should wish at least a symbolic protection of the files so that most
    >>> members, if not computer experts, cannot easily retrieve the files from
    >>> the disk.

    >> All it takes is one person to crack the copy protection, and that's the
    >> end
    >> of it. Doesn't matter if 99.999% of your members are not "computer
    >> experts".

    >
    > You've made the case for DRM quite convincing, I'd say.
    >
    >

    For members of an association a copyright notice asking that they
    respect the authors rights should be sufficient.
    DRM schemes have been tried for years and abandoned as too cumbersome.
     
    dotdash, Jan 25, 2008
    #11
  12. jm.almeras

    impossible Guest

    "dotdash" <> wrote in message
    news:47995225$...
    > impossible wrote:
    >> "Lawrence D'Oliveiro" <_zealand> wrote in message
    >> news:fnb599$l5a$...
    >>> In article <4798fb42$0$21145$-internet.fr>, jm.almeras
    >>> did
    >>> write:
    >>>
    >>>> The audio content of the files are the property of the association
    >>>> (concerts and conferences by members).
    >>> Copyright is not a property right.

    >>
    >> Call it whatever you like. But by virtue of copyright protection, no one
    >> is permitted to copy, modify, or distribute the association's files
    >> without the association's permission.
    >>
    >>>> We should wish at least a symbolic protection of the files so that most
    >>>> members, if not computer experts, cannot easily retrieve the files from
    >>>> the disk.
    >>> All it takes is one person to crack the copy protection, and that's the
    >>> end
    >>> of it. Doesn't matter if 99.999% of your members are not "computer
    >>> experts".

    >>
    >> You've made the case for DRM quite convincing, I'd say.

    > For members of an association a copyright notice asking that they respect
    > the authors rights should be sufficient.


    The moral authority of copyright has all but vanished. Blame it on the book
    publishers, record companies, and software houses who have relentlessly
    abused their monopoly positions to squeeze the pocketbooks of consumers --
    as a result, the incentive to pirate their products is enormous. Only
    lawyers really care anymore about copyright, and then of course only if
    there's a settlement cut in the offing.

    > DRM schemes have been tried for years and abandoned as too cumbersome.


    There's othing particularly "cumbersone" about DRM, comapred to any other
    scheme that limits access rights, and in the OP's case, I really think it's
    probably the best solution. All credit to Sam, of course, for first
    suggesting this, even if he only meant it to be taken tongue-in-cheek. The
    OP wants to freely distribute his associations data for others to use/enjoy,
    but he also wants to minimize the tempatation for some opportunist to profit
    (materially or otherwise) from that openness. Why not simply utilize the
    best available technology to accomplish that?
     
    impossible, Jan 25, 2008
    #12
  13. jm.almeras

    jm.almeras Guest

    Thank you Lawrence, Rob, Mark, sam, impossible, Allistar, dotdash
    Your conversation is interesting
    I think i will look into DRM as impossible suggests
    Cheers to all of you
    JM

    "jm.almeras" <> a écrit dans le message de news:
    4798fb42$0$21145$-internet.fr...
    > Hello !
    >
    > Is there a solution for storing sound files on a multimedia hard disk and
    > not enabling the files to be retrieved ?
    > (for example, are there multimedia disks which enable crypting sound
    > files,
    > yet allowing to listen to them, or software solutions)
    >
    > Here is precisely our need : we are an association and we want to give our
    > members access to conferences and concerts by storing these on multimedia
    > hard disks which our members will be able to rent.
    > The audio content of the files are the property of the association
    > (concerts
    > and conferences by members).
    > We should wish at least a symbolic protection of the files so that most
    > members, if not computer experts, cannot easily retrieve the files from
    > the
    > disk.
    >
    > All ideas will be highly appreciated !
    >
    > Cheers
    >
    > Jean-Marie
    >
     
    jm.almeras, Jan 25, 2008
    #13
  14. jm.almeras

    Richard Guest

    jm.almeras wrote:

    > Is there a solution for storing sound files on a multimedia hard disk and
    > not enabling the files to be retrieved ?
    > (for example, are there multimedia disks which enable crypting sound files,
    > yet allowing to listen to them, or software solutions)
    >
    > Here is precisely our need : we are an association and we want to give our
    > members access to conferences and concerts by storing these on multimedia
    > hard disks which our members will be able to rent.
    > The audio content of the files are the property of the association (concerts
    > and conferences by members).
    > We should wish at least a symbolic protection of the files so that most
    > members, if not computer experts, cannot easily retrieve the files from the
    > disk.
    >
    > All ideas will be highly appreciated !


    You would need to contact microsoft and ask how to become a provider of
    plays for sure or whatever its called is.

    Apples DRM is a closed system so dealing with them wont get you
    anywhere, microsoft will at least allow others to use their technology
    to make accessing the content more difficult.

    If the player is provided with the music already on it and authorized
    then if they copy the files to their computer they will be encrypted and
    without authorisation the pc wont be able to play or burn them.

    The only research I have done into drm is getting around it, but
    depending on the value of your work you might find the expense of
    protecting the files and the alienation this gives the users that you
    dont trust them might result in them doing an analog rip of it and
    putting it on p2p just to spite you. I know I would.
     
    Richard, Jan 25, 2008
    #14
  15. jm.almeras

    Richard Guest

    Allistar wrote:

    > Indeed. If someone really wants a copy of it themselves they can always plug
    > the speaker out into the microphone in and use recording software to record
    > it. If it's just voice on the files I reckon you wouldn't notice any
    > degradation in quality.


    An analog rip is many many times better then a moderatly compressed
    digital audio file - possibly some noise if its crap gear, and some
    clipping if you cant get the levels right but on a semi-decent sound
    card you would be hard pressed to tell the difference even at volumes
    well above what most people are happy listening at ;)
     
    Richard, Jan 25, 2008
    #15
  16. jm.almeras

    Richard Guest

    impossible wrote:

    > That's a ciolation of copyright. It's called piracy.


    No, it creating an unauthorised copy. Piracy/copyright violation doesnt
    happen until it is distributed.
     
    Richard, Jan 25, 2008
    #16
  17. jm.almeras

    Richard Guest

    impossible wrote:
    >>> The audio content of the files are the property of the association
    >>> (concerts and conferences by members).

    >> Copyright is not a property right.

    >
    > Call it whatever you like. But by virtue of copyright protection, no one is
    > permitted to copy, modify, or distribute the association's files without the
    > association's permission.


    Except for the reasons outlined under fair use and other legislation
    that cannot be contracted out of, possibly if these conferences were
    provided with a NDA you might get somewhere for distributing them to non
    members but if you think you will contain them with DRM on a portable
    media player you are delusional.
     
    Richard, Jan 25, 2008
    #17
  18. jm.almeras

    impossible Guest

    "Richard" <> wrote in message
    news:4799d7e2$...
    > impossible wrote:


    >> That's a ciolation of copyright. It's called piracy.

    >
    > No, it creating an unauthorised copy. Piracy/copyright violation doesnt
    > happen until it is distributed.


    Copyright prohibits unauthorised copying, modification, or distribuition of
    originally authored works. Fair use policies generally allow for the copying
    of a few pages of a book, say, or so many seconds of a recording. But beyond
    that you've misappropriated the author's work in violation of their rights.
    If you subsequently distribute that copy to others, then that's two strikes
    (or more) against you.
     
    impossible, Jan 25, 2008
    #18
  19. jm.almeras

    impossible Guest

    "Richard" <> wrote in message
    news:4799d864$...
    > impossible wrote:
    >>>> The audio content of the files are the property of the association
    >>>> (concerts and conferences by members).
    >>> Copyright is not a property right.

    >>
    >> Call it whatever you like. But by virtue of copyright protection, no one
    >> is permitted to copy, modify, or distribute the association's files
    >> without the association's permission.

    >
    > Except for the reasons outlined under fair use and other legislation that
    > cannot be contracted out of, possibly if these conferences were provided
    > with a NDA you might get somewhere for distributing them to non members
    > but if you think you will contain them with DRM on a portable media player
    > you are delusional.


    Once fixed to a tangible medium like a hard drive or DVD, recordings of
    conference proceedings are automatically protected by copyright in just the
    same way that recordings of music are. Fair use allows someone to copy a few
    seconds of such recordings -- but no more.
     
    impossible, Jan 25, 2008
    #19
  20. jm.almeras

    Rob S Guest

    On Fri, 25 Jan 2008 10:15:19 +1300
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro <_zealand> took time out from filleting whitebait to write:

    > In article <4798fb42$0$21145$-internet.fr>, jm.almeras did
    > write:
    >
    > > Is there a solution for storing sound files on a multimedia hard disk and
    > > not enabling the files to be retrieved ?

    >
    > Sounds like you want write-only memory
    > <http://www.ganssle.com/misc/wom.html>.


    Don't think so. SOUNDS TO ME LIKE THEY
    --
    Rob S
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Beta testers who lie! Next time on Geraldo!

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
     
    Rob S, Jan 25, 2008
    #20
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