Figure it's ok to mention this stuff since Dpreview did

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by RichA, Oct 16, 2012.

  1. RichA

    RichA Guest

    RichA, Oct 16, 2012
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. RichA

    nospam Guest

    In article
    <>,
    RichA <> wrote:

    > So Microscoft releases (essentially) a $199 Blackberry Playbook at
    > $499?? And the Blackberry tablet was a sales flop.


    it's a lot more than a blackberry playbook, but when have facts
    mattered in your idiotic rants.

    if you actually read the link you cited, you'd see they're comparing it
    to the ipad, except that it's less capable and at a similar price.
     
    nospam, Oct 16, 2012
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. RichA

    Me Guest

    On 17/10/2012 5:23 a.m., nospam wrote:
    > In article
    > <>,
    > RichA <> wrote:
    >
    >> So Microscoft releases (essentially) a $199 Blackberry Playbook at
    >> $499?? And the Blackberry tablet was a sales flop.

    >
    > it's a lot more than a blackberry playbook, but when have facts
    > mattered in your idiotic rants.
    >
    > if you actually read the link you cited, you'd see they're comparing it
    > to the ipad, except that it's less capable and at a similar price.
    >

    I'd wait and see about the "capability". It's all too easy to write MS
    off these days - to presume that something like these are a last
    desperate act by the condemned.
    The "pro" version (not the one discussed above) has a 1920 x 1080
    display, images show it with a wacom type stylus. Running W8, it could
    be a pretty useful device for photographers - where ipad and android
    tablets are only fancy mobile digital photo-frames.
     
    Me, Oct 16, 2012
    #3
  4. RichA

    nospam Guest

    In article <k5keoo$a56$>, Me <>
    wrote:

    > >> So Microscoft releases (essentially) a $199 Blackberry Playbook at
    > >> $499?? And the Blackberry tablet was a sales flop.

    > >
    > > it's a lot more than a blackberry playbook, but when have facts
    > > mattered in your idiotic rants.
    > >
    > > if you actually read the link you cited, you'd see they're comparing it
    > > to the ipad, except that it's less capable and at a similar price.

    >
    > I'd wait and see about the "capability". It's all too easy to write MS
    > off these days - to presume that something like these are a last
    > desperate act by the condemned.


    microsoft is so far behind apple and google it's not funny. windows
    phone has yet to gain any traction (still low single digit market
    share), despite the hardware being fairly good.

    windows 8 has very little enthusiasm. most people don't care for the
    drastic changes. it may be a clever strategy to have the same os on
    both mobile and desktop, but it's also very risky. if win 8 turns out
    to be vista 2, microsoft is in deep trouble, more than they already
    are.

    > The "pro" version (not the one discussed above) has a 1920 x 1080
    > display, images show it with a wacom type stylus. Running W8, it could
    > be a pretty useful device for photographers


    maybe. it depends on the apps. developers are concentrating on ios and
    android, not windows 8.

    > - where ipad and android
    > tablets are only fancy mobile digital photo-frames.


    nonsense. they're much more than fancy photo frames.
     
    nospam, Oct 16, 2012
    #4
  5. RichA

    Mayayana Guest

    | So Microscoft releases (essentially) a $199 Blackberry Playbook at
    | $499?? And the Blackberry tablet was a sales flop.
    |
    |
    http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/16/tech/gaming-gadgets/surface-tablet-mashable/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

    The MS tablets will probably be a flop, too, but
    they're not Blackberry's. The whole thing hinges on
    Metro and MS online services. They want you to buy
    Metro apps that they get a cut on, "consume" media,
    get an MS email address, etc. At this point they have
    very little to offer, and a lot of people are going to
    be surprised when they find out that 1) they can't run
    Windows software and 2) the only software they can
    run is trinket apps from the Windows online store.

    Personally I think the prices are absurd, but there
    are millions of people paying similar to buy iPads.
    So there seems to be a ...tablet customer ... born
    every minute. :)
     
    Mayayana, Oct 17, 2012
    #5
  6. RichA

    nospam Guest

    In article <k5kqkf$kds$>, Mayayana
    <> wrote:

    > The MS tablets will probably be a flop, too, but
    > they're not Blackberry's. The whole thing hinges on
    > Metro and MS online services. They want you to buy
    > Metro apps that they get a cut on, "consume" media,
    > get an MS email address, etc.


    imagine that, companies that want you to buy stuff. crazy!!

    > At this point they have
    > very little to offer,


    actually they have quite a bit to offer, but the problem is that apple
    and google have a lot *more* to offer, and for roughly the same price.

    it's too little, too late.

    on the other hand, microsoft is throwing a shitload of marketing behind
    it, so maybe they'll find a comfortable third place.

    > and a lot of people are going to
    > be surprised when they find out that 1) they can't run
    > Windows software


    so what? that hasn't affected ipads one bit.

    in fact, not only can't ipads run windows software, but they can't run
    mac software either, and ipad sales are through the roof.

    > and 2) the only software they can
    > run is trinket apps from the Windows online store.


    there is much more than 'trinket apps' available.

    > Personally I think the prices are absurd,


    the prices are competitive with similar products.

    > but there
    > are millions of people paying similar to buy iPads.


    exactly.

    > So there seems to be a ...tablet customer ... born
    > every minute. :)


    is there something wrong with buying a tablet?

    for a lot of tasks and also a lot of users, a tablet is a much beter
    choice than a laptop and certainly a desktop computer (how archaic).
     
    nospam, Oct 17, 2012
    #6
  7. RichA

    RichA Guest

    On Oct 16, 7:29 pm, "Mayayana" <> wrote:
    > | So Microscoft releases (essentially) a $199 Blackberry Playbook at
    > | $499??  And the Blackberry tablet was a sales flop.
    > |
    > |http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/16/tech/gaming-gadgets/surface-tablet-mash...
    >
    >   The MS tablets will probably be a flop, too, but
    > they're not Blackberry's. The whole thing hinges on
    > Metro and MS online services. They want you to buy
    > Metro apps that they get a cut on, "consume" media,
    > get an MS email address, etc. At this point they have
    > very little to offer, and a lot of people are going to
    > be surprised when they find out that 1) they can't run
    > Windows software and 2) the only software they can
    > run is trinket apps from the Windows online store.
    >
    >   Personally I think the prices are absurd, but there
    > are millions of people paying similar to buy iPads.
    > So there seems to be a ...tablet customer ... born
    > every minute. :)


    It all ties in nicely with Microsoft and other companies who want to
    create a computer universe (indeed, an entire multimedia universe)
    where all media and media use is "rented" as a service and not owned.
    What better way to do it than releasing endless numbers of grossly
    (compared to a decent home computer) tablets and phones.
     
    RichA, Oct 17, 2012
    #7
  8. RichA

    RichA Guest

    On Oct 16, 8:14 pm, nospam <> wrote:
    > In article <k5kqkf$>, Mayayana
    >


    > is there something wrong with buying a tablet?
    >
    > for a lot of tasks and also a lot of users, a tablet is a much beter
    > choice than a laptop and certainly a desktop computer (how archaic).


    You are just one big hipster...
     
    RichA, Oct 17, 2012
    #8
  9. RichA

    Mayayana Guest

    >
    It all ties in nicely with Microsoft and other companies who want to
    create a computer universe (indeed, an entire multimedia universe)
    where all media and media use is "rented" as a service and not owned.
    >


    Yes. That's partly why the prices seem so outlandish
    to me. Not only is it a limited tool compared to a
    [cheaper] PC. The whole point is to bring in income
    from everything that people do with it. With that
    strategy I would expect them to take a loss on the
    hardware, counting on profits down the road. (30%
    cut for all "apps" bought through their store, ad
    income from Hotmail, etc. Not to mention a captive
    audience that can be tracked more efficiently than
    computer users can be.)
     
    Mayayana, Oct 17, 2012
    #9
  10. RichA

    Mayayana Guest

    | > and a lot of people are going to
    | > be surprised when they find out that 1) they can't run
    | > Windows software
    |
    | so what? that hasn't affected ipads one bit.

    No, it hasn't. But those are two very different things. People
    buy iPads for fun and swank... And because they're Apple fans
    ....And because they have money to burn. They associate
    Windows with getting work done. It's *very* unlikely that
    anyone will ever buy anything Microsoft for swank. :)

    Microsoft know that so they're deliberately confusing people.
    They're marketing the new line as a single interface across
    devices, implying that people can have Windows everywhere.
    MS has been clear in technical docs that Win RT is not the
    same thing as Win 8, but their actions lead people to believe
    otherwise. (Even much of the media mistakenly think Win RT
    is a variant of Win 8.) Win 8 runs Windows software and has a
    Metro screen tacked on to market MS services. Win RT is those
    services, running on an ARM chip that can't handle Windows
    software, with a sort of fake "Desktop" screen to confuse people.
    (The Win RT Desktop only runs built-in Microsoft ARM software.
    It's not a Desktop as Windows users know it.)

    So why would anyone buy a Win RT tablet, which so far has
    very few apps, when they can have an iPad for about the
    same price (which now has, what, about 47 billion apps?) and
    they can have a fashion statement in the deal? I submit that
    many of those sales will be to people who have been misled into
    believing that they're actually getting some version of
    Windows + extras, when all they're really getting is warmed-over
    MS online services and *maybe* an appealing app store. It's
    yet to be seen whether the MS store will ever get an alluring
    stable of apps.

    Windows people are used to getting things free. Windows phones
    have yet to sell. Windows tablets aren't even out yet. Anyone
    who writes for Metro is basically writing trinkets that have to be
    approved by MS, with MS getting 30% of the profits, and no
    certain market. All of those factors work against developers wanting
    to take a chance on Metro.
    (I guess if you don't think a Facebook app, or a Find-me-a-
    coffeeshop app, or an Angry Birds app is a trinket then we just
    have different definitions of trinket. To me those are all simple,
    small, trivial entertainment utilities.)
     
    Mayayana, Oct 17, 2012
    #10
  11. RichA

    nospam Guest

    In article <k5l7gq$gu8$>, Mayayana
    <> wrote:

    > > It all ties in nicely with Microsoft and other companies who want to
    > > create a computer universe (indeed, an entire multimedia universe)
    > > where all media and media use is "rented" as a service and not owned.

    >
    > Yes. That's partly why the prices seem so outlandish
    > to me.


    the prices are not outlandish at all. they're competitive with similar
    products.

    > Not only is it a limited tool compared to a
    > [cheaper] PC.


    for some tasks it may be, but for other tasks it's much more capable,
    easier to use and a much more pleasant user experience, which means the
    user is more productive.

    more importantly, it's a totally different product, so you can't
    directly compare prices or features.

    > The whole point is to bring in income
    > from everything that people do with it.


    you're delusional.

    > With that
    > strategy I would expect them to take a loss on the
    > hardware,


    they're not taking a loss on the hardware.

    on the other hand, amazon and google are reportedly selling the kindle
    and nexus 7 at or slightly below cost, depending on what story you
    believe, with the profit coming from amazon sales or google ad revenue.

    > counting on profits down the road. (30%
    > cut for all "apps" bought through their store,


    30% is actually much less than the overhead of traditional distribution
    channels, but why let facts get in the way. from a developer point of
    view, 30% is cheap.

    at the end of the day, it's a whole lot easier for users to find and
    install apps and keep them updated. when users buy a new device, it's a
    couple of taps to reinstall everything and continue working.

    > ad
    > income from Hotmail, etc.


    ads are how google and much of the internet works. people want stuff
    for free and are willing to put up with ads in order to do that. those
    who are willing to pay can have apps without ads.

    also, you're behind the times. hotmail is eventually going away.
    <http://articles.marketwatch.com/2012-07-31/industries/32953385_1_hotmai
    l-customers-e-mail-system-bgc-partners-analyst>
    Microsoft Corp. is replacing Hotmail, its Web-based consumer e-mail
    system, with an expanded version of Outlook, the system widely used
    by businesses.

    > Not to mention a captive
    > audience that can be tracked more efficiently than
    > computer users can be.)


    nonsense.

    just where do you come up with this garbage?

    you're also paranoid.
     
    nospam, Oct 17, 2012
    #11
  12. RichA

    nospam Guest

    In article <k5laup$a8$>, Mayayana
    <> wrote:

    > | > and a lot of people are going to
    > | > be surprised when they find out that 1) they can't run
    > | > Windows software
    > |
    > | so what? that hasn't affected ipads one bit.
    >
    > No, it hasn't. But those are two very different things.


    they're not different at all. the surface tablet is microsoft's version
    of an ipad.

    > People
    > buy iPads for fun and swank... And because they're Apple fans
    > ...And because they have money to burn.


    nonsense. just where do you come up with this garbage?

    most people who buy ipads and also iphones are *not* apple users, let
    alone fans, and very few people have money to burn in today's economy.

    ipads are being used in *all* sorts of ways for all sorts of things. of
    course, some people do use ipads for fun, and there's absolutely
    nothing wrong with that, while others use them for more productive
    work. 94% of fortune 500 companies are using or testing ipads, and you
    can be sure they're not doing that because they have money to burn or
    for fun.

    for example, many hospitals and commercial airlines are using ipads,
    both of which are probably the farthest from fun and swank as you can
    possibly get:

    <http://www.boston.com/business/technology/articles/2011/04/04/for_some_
    doctors_the_ipad_is_claiming_a_key_spot_next_to_the_stethoscope/>
    Last month, at the launch of the iPad 2, Apple showed a video in
    which Dr. John Halamka, chief information officer at Beth Israel
    Deaconess, said the iPad ³will change the way doctors practice
    medicine.¹¹

    It was a bold statement, and not the first lofty claim made about
    technology. But this much is clear: Hospitals across the United
    States and as far as Israel and Australia are embracing iPads.

    <http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2397629,00.asp>
    American is the first major airline to receive official approval to
    use iPads. Dorr said there are few smaller, on-demand airlines that
    have gotten the go-ahead, including N-Jets, Express Jet Management
    (EJM).

    Other major airlines are currently going through the operational
    evaluation, including Alaska Airlines, United and Continental, and
    Delta.

    > They associate
    > Windows with getting work done.


    no, they associate windows with malware and support headaches.

    > It's *very* unlikely that
    > anyone will ever buy anything Microsoft for swank. :)


    microsoft xbox.

    people also buy windows pcs for gaming, sometimes *just* for gaming.

    but that's fun, you don't do fun.

    > Microsoft know that so they're deliberately confusing people.
    > They're marketing the new line as a single interface across
    > devices, implying that people can have Windows everywhere.


    having the same interface across mobile and desktop is actually an
    interesting strategy. if it works, microsoft has a huge winner. on the
    other hand, if it fails, they're screwed. they're well behind apple and
    google, and this is really their only chance.

    > MS has been clear in technical docs that Win RT is not the
    > same thing as Win 8, but their actions lead people to believe
    > otherwise. (Even much of the media mistakenly think Win RT
    > is a variant of Win 8.) Win 8 runs Windows software and has a
    > Metro screen tacked on to market MS services. Win RT is those
    > services, running on an ARM chip that can't handle Windows
    > software, with a sort of fake "Desktop" screen to confuse people.
    > (The Win RT Desktop only runs built-in Microsoft ARM software.
    > It's not a Desktop as Windows users know it.)


    there will be some confusion, but that should eventually sort itself
    out.

    > So why would anyone buy a Win RT tablet, which so far has
    > very few apps, when they can have an iPad for about the
    > same price (which now has, what, about 47 billion apps?)


    so you admit the price is not absurd.

    also, it's just under 1 million ios apps have been approved since
    apple's app store opened.

    > and
    > they can have a fashion statement in the deal?


    what's with the fashion statement nonsense?

    people don't buy ipads as a fashion statement.

    > I submit that
    > many of those sales will be to people who have been misled into
    > believing that they're actually getting some version of
    > Windows + extras, when all they're really getting is warmed-over
    > MS online services and *maybe* an appealing app store. It's
    > yet to be seen whether the MS store will ever get an alluring
    > stable of apps.


    it remains to be seen just how successful windows 8 will be, and
    whether or not it will end up being a vista 2.

    > Windows people are used to getting things free.


    hah! you must be kidding!!!

    that's the most ludicrous thing i've seen anyone write in a *long*
    time. you don't actually believe that idiocy, do you?

    > Windows phones
    > have yet to sell. Windows tablets aren't even out yet. Anyone
    > who writes for Metro is basically writing trinkets that have to be
    > approved by MS, with MS getting 30% of the profits, and no
    > certain market. All of those factors work against developers wanting
    > to take a chance on Metro.


    metro is certainly a smaller market than ios and android, but there is
    still money to be made. some developers will take a chance, and some of
    them will do quite well. some won't. there is plenty of opportunity for
    killer apps. big fish in a small pond versus small fish in a big pond.

    > (I guess if you don't think a Facebook app, or a Find-me-a-
    > coffeeshop app, or an Angry Birds app is a trinket then we just
    > have different definitions of trinket. To me those are all simple,
    > small, trivial entertainment utilities.)


    you clearly have *no* clue what an ipad can do. none whatsoever.

    in addition to doctors and commercial airline pilots, there are *so*
    many other examples that it's impossible to list them all.

    here's another:
    <http://kevin.lexblog.com/2012/07/23/30-of-attorneys-use-an-ipad/>
    30% of attorneys in the U.S. are using an iPad per the 2012 ABA Tech
    Survey performed by the ABA Legal Technology Resource Center. Lawyers
    are seeing real value in the iPad, it¹s not only lighter than a
    laptop, but also a more efficient and organized way to receive and
    review news and information.

    bottom line: ipads are rapidly replacing laptops for all sorts of
    things.
     
    nospam, Oct 17, 2012
    #12
  13. RichA

    nospam Guest

    In article
    <>,
    RichA <> wrote:

    > It all ties in nicely with Microsoft and other companies who want to
    > create a computer universe (indeed, an entire multimedia universe)
    > where all media and media use is "rented" as a service and not owned.


    nonsense.

    > What better way to do it than releasing endless numbers of grossly
    > (compared to a decent home computer) tablets and phones.


    grossly what? did you leave off a word?

    like it or not (and you obviously do not), the future is with mobile
    devices, which means tablets and phones.
     
    nospam, Oct 17, 2012
    #13
  14. RichA

    Whisky-dave Guest

    On Wednesday, October 17, 2012 12:29:20 AM UTC+1, Mayayana wrote:
    > | So Microscoft releases (essentially) a $199 Blackberry Playbook at
    >
    > | $499?? And the Blackberry tablet was a sales flop.
    >
    > |
    >
    > |
    >
    > http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/16/tech/gaming-gadgets/surface-tablet-mashable/index.html?hpt=hp_t3
    >
    >
    >
    > The MS tablets will probably be a flop, too, but
    >
    > they're not Blackberry's. The whole thing hinges on
    >
    > Metro and MS online services. They want you to buy
    >
    > Metro apps that they get a cut on, "consume" media,
    >
    > get an MS email address, etc. At this point they have
    >
    > very little to offer, and a lot of people are going to
    >
    > be surprised when they find out that 1) they can't run
    >
    > Windows software and 2) the only software they can
    >
    > run is trinket apps from the Windows online store.
    >
    >
    >
    > Personally I think the prices are absurd,


    I'm not sure what's so absurd about the prices.
    Well some of the andriod ones are as they might look OK but they just don;t fuction very well and the majoroty of the apps are pretty crap.



    > but there
    >
    > are millions of people paying similar to buy iPads.


    So chances are the price asled isn;t quite as absurd as you think.

    >
    > So there seems to be a ...tablet customer ... born
    >
    > every minute. :)


    Well apparently 255 people are born every minute and I'm betting more than one of those will buy a tablet computer of some sort.
     
    Whisky-dave, Oct 17, 2012
    #14
  15. RichA

    Mort Guest

    nospam wrote:
    > bottom line: ipads are rapidly replacing laptops for all sorts of
    > things.


    Hi,

    At several classical music concerts that I saw recently, the musicians
    used "sheet music" on an i-phone, rather than in paper form.

    Mort Linder
     
    Mort, Oct 17, 2012
    #15
  16. RichA

    Whisky-dave Guest

    On Wednesday, October 17, 2012 2:38:45 PM UTC+1, Mort wrote:
    > nospam wrote:
    >
    > > bottom line: ipads are rapidly replacing laptops for all sorts of

    >
    > > things.

    >
    >
    >
    > Hi,
    >
    >
    >
    > At several classical music concerts that I saw recently, the musicians
    >
    > used "sheet music" on an i-phone, rather than in paper form.


    Call themselves muscians, can't they remmeber the music they're playing ;-)

    >
    >
    >
    > Mort Linder
     
    Whisky-dave, Oct 17, 2012
    #16
  17. RichA

    jdanield Guest

    Le 17/10/2012 15:38, Mort a écrit :


    > At several classical music concerts that I saw recently, the musicians
    > used "sheet music" on an i-phone, rather than in paper form.
    >


    i-phone?

    i-pad I could understand...

    jdd
     
    jdanield, Oct 17, 2012
    #17
  18. RichA

    Mayayana Guest

    | having the same interface across mobile and desktop is actually an
    | interesting strategy. if it works, microsoft has a huge winner.

    What I was trying to explain is that it's not even
    the same system, much less the same interface.
    People aren't going to use Metro apps on PCs and
    they *can't* use Windows software on Surface.

    I just came across a story tonight that demonstrates
    what I'm talking about. It turns out that Microsoft
    has made such an effort to mislead that most of their
    store employees don't even know the difference
    between Win 8 and Win RT. It's a humorous and
    somewhat shocking read:

    http://www.theverge.com/2012/10/17/...rt-surface-confused-microsoft-store-employees

    Nor does Walt Mossberg understand what's going on,
    despite his billing himself as a tech. guru:

    http://allthingsd.com/20121016/windows-pushes-into-the-tablet-age/

    (I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt in assuming
    that he's actually confused and not deliberately
    fudging the facts to placate Microsoft.)

    I can't imagine why you're championing a
    Microsoft product, but I look forward to your
    report on the pros and cons of your new, $500
    Hotmail gadget. :)
     
    Mayayana, Oct 18, 2012
    #18
  19. RichA

    Mort Guest

    jdanield wrote:
    > Le 17/10/2012 15:38, Mort a écrit :
    >
    >
    >> At several classical music concerts that I saw recently, the musicians
    >> used "sheet music" on an i-phone, rather than in paper form.
    >>

    >
    > i-phone?
    >
    > i-pad I could understand...
    >
    > jdd
    >

    '
    Hi,

    I stand corrected. As a non-Apple person, I occasionally use the wrong
    word. Sorry.

    Mort
     
    Mort, Oct 18, 2012
    #19
  20. RichA

    jdanield Guest

    Le 18/10/2012 02:18, Mort a écrit :


    > I stand corrected. As a non-Apple person, I occasionally use the wrong
    > word. Sorry.


    no problem, I do not own i-pad neither :)

    actually, most partitions are very large (much larger than usual paper
    sheet, so it's difficult to make photocopies, so even an i-pad is small

    jdd
     
    jdanield, Oct 18, 2012
    #20
    1. Advertising

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

It takes just 2 minutes to sign up (and it's free!). Just click the sign up button to choose a username and then you can ask your own questions on the forum.
Similar Threads
  1. The Cable Guy

    Loath to mention this (Sipgate)

    The Cable Guy, Feb 5, 2006, in forum: UK VOIP
    Replies:
    1
    Views:
    480
    Thomas Kenyon
    Feb 6, 2006
  2. Jono

    Loathe to mention this

    Jono, Feb 5, 2006, in forum: UK VOIP
    Replies:
    7
    Views:
    650
  3. Mike Henley

    Why no mention of Casio QV-R51 in this group?

    Mike Henley, Jun 3, 2004, in forum: Digital Photography
    Replies:
    4
    Views:
    441
    Dan Eppinger
    Jun 16, 2004
  4. Goro
    Replies:
    5
    Views:
    476
    Jordan
    Oct 22, 2005
  5. USB Port 0

    I mention this before...excess crap...

    USB Port 0, Feb 28, 2006, in forum: Computer Support
    Replies:
    14
    Views:
    577
    Beauregard T. Shagnasty
    Mar 4, 2006
Loading...

Share This Page