Fewer newbie postings?

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Marvin, Jan 16, 2006.

  1. Marvin

    Marvin Guest

    Perhaps it is my imagination, but there does seem to be many fewer postings on this NG
    than at this time in recent years, from people who got digicams as gifts and who ask
    rather basic questions. If I'm right, it is a sign that the use of digicams has become as
    routine for the average person as film photography.
     
    Marvin, Jan 16, 2006
    #1
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  2. Marvin wrote:
    > Perhaps it is my imagination, but there does seem to be many fewer
    > postings on this NG than at this time in recent years, from people
    > who got digicams as gifts and who ask rather basic questions. If I'm
    > right, it is a sign that the use of digicams has become as routine
    > for the average person as film photography.


    It might also be due to:

    - people jumping on questioners with unhelpful responses like "RTFM, you
    fool"

    - posters jumping on those who try and help, with responses telling them
    to "f*** off".

    Sadly, rudeness seems common in the rec.photo.digital groups, and reasoned
    discussion with certain posters is next to impossible.

    David
     
    David J Taylor, Jan 16, 2006
    #2
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  3. Marvin

    U-Know-Who Guest

    "Marvin" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Perhaps it is my imagination, but there does seem to be many fewer
    > postings on this NG than at this time in recent years, from people who got
    > digicams as gifts and who ask rather basic questions. If I'm right, it is
    > a sign that the use of digicams has become as routine for the average
    > person as film photography.


    Some of us are still here.......just lurking and trying to learn from
    others' experiences.
     
    U-Know-Who, Jan 16, 2006
    #3
  4. Those are the stupidest suggestions yet! Does your mother know you are
    wasting peoples' bandwidth? Or does she just lock you in your room with a
    computer while she entertains your "uncles"?

    --
    Thanks,
    Gene Palmiter
    (visit my photo gallery at http://palmiter.dotphoto.com)
    freebridge design group

    "David J Taylor"
    <-this-bit.nor-this-part.uk.invalid> wrote in
    message news:0dQyf.2079$...
    > Marvin wrote:
    >> Perhaps it is my imagination, but there does seem to be many fewer
    >> postings on this NG than at this time in recent years, from people
    >> who got digicams as gifts and who ask rather basic questions. If I'm
    >> right, it is a sign that the use of digicams has become as routine
    >> for the average person as film photography.

    >
    > It might also be due to:
    >
    > - people jumping on questioners with unhelpful responses like "RTFM, you
    > fool"
    >
    > - posters jumping on those who try and help, with responses telling them
    > to "f*** off".
    >
    > Sadly, rudeness seems common in the rec.photo.digital groups, and reasoned
    > discussion with certain posters is next to impossible.
    >
    > David
    >
     
    Gene Palmiter, Jan 16, 2006
    #4
  5. Gene Palmiter wrote:
    > Those are the stupidest suggestions yet! Does your mother know you are
    > wasting peoples' bandwidth? Or does she just lock you in your room
    > with a computer while she entertains your "uncles"?


    <G>

    David
     
    David J Taylor, Jan 16, 2006
    #5
  6. Marvin

    Bolshoy Huy Guest

    nope, perhaps simply snapping photos, dropping them off in a lab, and
    picking up prints, is easier for some folks(over 65, no $ for a
    computer, etc.)
    Cheaper also to shoot film as an entry-level film SLR could be bought
    for $200-$300, but an digital SLR goes for $600-$999.
    unless you shoot hundreds of photos, a film P&S could do just fine.
     
    Bolshoy Huy, Jan 16, 2006
    #6
  7. Marvin

    rafe b Guest

    "Bolshoy Huy" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > nope, perhaps simply snapping photos, dropping them off in a lab, and
    > picking up prints, is easier for some folks(over 65, no $ for a
    > computer, etc.)
    > Cheaper also to shoot film as an entry-level film SLR could be bought
    > for $200-$300, but an digital SLR goes for $600-$999.
    > unless you shoot hundreds of photos, a film P&S could do just fine.



    Lots of folks still happy with their film point & shoot cameras. My wife is
    one of them. She's completely uninterested in "moving up" to a digicam.


    rafe b
    www.terrapinphoto.com
     
    rafe b, Jan 16, 2006
    #7
  8. Marvin

    Jim Townsend Guest

    Marvin wrote:

    > Perhaps it is my imagination, but there does seem to be many fewer postings on this NG
    > than at this time in recent years, from people who got digicams as gifts and who ask
    > rather basic questions. If I'm right, it is a sign that the use of digicams has become as
    > routine for the average person as film photography.


    The market could be reaching saturation. Computers and digicams
    have been dropping in price steadily. Both are pretty affordable
    now.

    Everyone who would want a digital camera might currently have one :)
    People purchasing digital cameras now will be on their second+ unit.
    This could explain why there aren't that many 'new' users.
     
    Jim Townsend, Jan 16, 2006
    #8
  9. Marvin

    Clint Kirk Guest

    Those who are happy with film could just as easily get a digital camera
    and use it like a film camera, shooting until the memory card is full
    and then dropping off the memory card into a processing shop. Perhaps
    the reason they don't do that is that, at least in the UK, it is still
    slightly more expensive to do that with digital media than with film.
    Probably nothing to do with the shops' costs, but the marketing people
    think digital camera users can afford to pay more for their prints, so
    they charge more. The day has yet to arrive when one of them dares to
    lower their costs and the rest will follow.
     
    Clint Kirk, Jan 16, 2006
    #9
  10. Marvin wrote:
    > Perhaps it is my imagination, but there does seem to be many fewer
    > postings on this NG than at this time in recent years, from people
    > who got digicams as gifts and who ask rather basic questions. If I'm
    > right, it is a sign that the use of digicams has become as routine
    > for the average person as film photography.


    Not quite. But it's moving in that direction.

    As with most tech newsgroups, this one attracts some posters who are
    obsessed with the pure technology, and like to show off their know-how.
    However, good photographs are the product of the guy or gal behind the lens,
    not the camera, the sensor, or any amount of money spent on equipment. Most
    of the truly great photographers used pretty modest equipment, but had that
    wonderful ability to "see" a photograph.

    Digital is no different to film photography in this respect, just more
    convenient. In the hands of a Cartier-Bresson, a point-and-shoot digital
    camera would produce more great shots than the finest DSLR with a multitude
    of lenses.

    There is no harm in wanting to discover all the finer technical details of
    the technology so long as we remember that it is the end product that
    counts, not the means to that end.

    I despair of the practice of photographic clubs and societies who insist on
    having a "digital section", as though the people who use digital cameras are
    a seperate branch of the human race, definitely "not like us". If I shoot
    pictures on my beloved Leica, develop the negatives, then scan these into my
    PC and produce prints, using Photoshop to manipulate the end result, am I a
    digital photographer? Should I re-assemble the expensive enlarger which lies
    in my garage and turn the second bathroom into a darkroom in order to prove
    that I am a "real" photographer?

    Digital photography has eneabled many people, who never had much luck with a
    film camera during their lifetime, to produce truly wonderful portraits and
    landscapes, with no help from the processing labs. Long may it continue. Let
    the techies play around with their expensive toys, the future lies with
    good, simple, user-friendly point-and-shoot cameras.

    Now what did I do with my D70? Must have put it down somewhere!

    Dennis.
     
    Dennis Pogson, Jan 16, 2006
    #10
  11. Marvin

    Eddie Guest

    "Marvin" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Perhaps it is my imagination, but there does seem to be many fewer
    > postings on this NG than at this time in recent years, from people who got
    > digicams as gifts and who ask rather basic questions. If I'm right, it is
    > a sign that the use of digicams has become as routine for the average
    > person as film photography.


    Nope! I am here in the UK having bought a digital camera and underwater
    housing. I have loads of questions!

    Practising on my grandchildren at the moment before going off the the Middle
    East for a holiday next month.

    Got Nimh batteries (4 in number) and wondering how I will manage them.
    Recharging while still fairly full causes problems I understand.

    I wear glasses but do not usually need sight corrected lens on my dive mask.
    Camera screen a little smaller though! :-(

    Have two 512 mb SD cards plus one 32. Enough for a week away on a diving
    liveaboard with no laptop?

    Newbie Eddie
     
    Eddie, Jan 16, 2006
    #11
  12. Eddie wrote:
    []
    > Nope! I am here in the UK having bought a digital camera and
    > underwater housing. I have loads of questions!
    >
    > Practising on my grandchildren at the moment before going off the the
    > Middle East for a holiday next month.
    >
    > Got Nimh batteries (4 in number) and wondering how I will manage them.
    > Recharging while still fairly full causes problems I understand.
    >
    > I wear glasses but do not usually need sight corrected lens on my
    > dive mask. Camera screen a little smaller though! :-(
    >
    > Have two 512 mb SD cards plus one 32. Enough for a week away on a
    > diving liveaboard with no laptop?
    >
    > Newbie Eddie


    2 x 512MB would probably not be enough for me. You might want to get (or
    borrow) a couple of 1GB cards, and you might want to consider the Epson
    P-2000 storage device instead of a bulky laptop:

    http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/epsonp2000/

    NiMH batteries are a lot less sensitive to mis-treatment than some others.
    I don't think a week of top-up charging would cause any problems, but you
    probably want to cycle the batteries fully once before you go.

    David
     
    David J Taylor, Jan 16, 2006
    #12
  13. Marvin

    Matt Guest

    On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 19:11:16 +0000 (UTC), "Eddie"
    <> wrote:

    >
    >"Marvin" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> Perhaps it is my imagination, but there does seem to be many fewer
    >> postings on this NG than at this time in recent years, from people who got
    >> digicams as gifts and who ask rather basic questions. If I'm right, it is
    >> a sign that the use of digicams has become as routine for the average
    >> person as film photography.

    >
    >Nope! I am here in the UK having bought a digital camera and underwater
    >housing. I have loads of questions!
    >
    >Practising on my grandchildren at the moment before going off the the Middle
    >East for a holiday next month.
    >
    >Got Nimh batteries (4 in number) and wondering how I will manage them.
    >Recharging while still fairly full causes problems I understand.


    If you have a fully smart charger, no problem at all. With a timed
    charger, you either have to run them flat (though no flatter than an
    electronic device will take them - NiMH should NOT be flattened in a
    torch), or make a guess as to how long to give them.

    Check out:
    http://www.7dayshop.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=100596
    (Fast 1-2 pair charger though not sure if it's independent in 2 pair
    mode) - cheap price, charger only, batteries not included

    http://www.7dayshop.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=100597
    Individul lights, but is it independent channels.

    http://www.7dayshop.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=100598
    This one is actually stated as being 4 individual channels, and mixed
    sizes

    >I wear glasses but do not usually need sight corrected lens on my dive mask.
    >Camera screen a little smaller though! :-(
    >
    >Have two 512 mb SD cards plus one 32. Enough for a week away on a diving
    >liveaboard with no laptop?


    Anything like my camera, and you'll need more batteries to last out
    the storage.

    But if you need more
    http://www.7dayshop.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=71169
    darn it! I just paid that for a 256 at my "cheap" computer fair

    >Newbie Eddie
    >


    --
    I may be dozzzy, but take the ZZZ's out to mail me
    http://www.junkroom.freeserve.co.uk/jvc2080.htm - 2x2x24 CD-RW troubles

    If you drop a cactus, don't try to catch it!
     
    Matt, Jan 16, 2006
    #13
  14. Marvin

    Ryan Guest

    Marvin wrote:
    > Perhaps it is my imagination, but there does seem to be many fewer
    > postings on this NG than at this time in recent years, from people who
    > got digicams as gifts and who ask rather basic questions. If I'm right,
    > it is a sign that the use of digicams has become as routine for the
    > average person as film photography.


    I've been reading for about two years and I thought it seemed like
    there were more and more newb questions and now fewer and fewer
    answers from experts discussing the nuts and bolts of how things worked.

    -Ryan
     
    Ryan, Jan 16, 2006
    #14
  15. Re: underwater newbie ... WAS:Fewer newbie postings?

    On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 19:11:16 +0000 (UTC), Eddie wrote:
    >
    > Nope! I am here in the UK having bought a digital camera and underwater
    > housing. I have loads of questions!
    >
    > Got Nimh batteries (4 in number) and wondering how I will manage them.
    > Recharging while still fairly full causes problems I understand.


    Not for NiMH. You're probably thinking of NiCad's.

    > I wear glasses but do not usually need sight corrected lens on my dive mask.
    > Camera screen a little smaller though! :-(


    Near-sighted? If so, and if and when you _do_ go for prescription
    lenses in your dive mask, *DO NOT* got for full correction. You are not
    looking at the horizon underwater, anyway. And, trying to read
    set-up and current-settings' hieroglyphics on the LCD, and trying to
    frame your picture in the LCD screen is a bitch with your eyes locked on
    to 1,000 meter targets.

    My eyes are now -7.0/-7.25 diopters. Even the -6.0 diopter lenses in
    my mask might be a bit too much. YMMV

    > Have two 512 mb SD cards plus one 32. Enough for a week away on a diving
    > liveaboard with no laptop?


    Nope. Even shooting at something like 768x1024, you'll load a 256MB
    card per 2-dive day -- my guess. (I'm SWAG'ing for SCUBA here. I'm a
    freediver and I spend 2+ hours in the water per outing...) Of course,
    back on the boat (using the less-than-optimum LCD screen) you'll want
    to delete the 'bad' shots. You do not want to dive with the 32MB card
    -- unless you're diving on a half-empty tank. :)

    I'd suggest a handful of 512MB (or, even 256MB) cards. They should be
    available inexpensively due to the mad rush for the monster-sized cards.
    And, you'll have some security in spreading your shots over multiple
    cards when you flood your camera in your underwater housing. And, you
    _will_ do that --- eventually. Experience talking. (If you have an
    older'ish camera that you're going to use in the underwater housing, buy
    a second, spare camera off eBay. Experience talking.)

    Have a great trip. But, don't spend so much time taking pictures that
    you don't get to see the beauty of it all. Experience talking.

    HTH
    Jonesy
    --
    Marvin L Jones | jonz | W3DHJ | linux
    Pueblo, Colorado | @ config.com | Jonesy | OS/2
    *** I killfile X-Trace: posting.google.com followups in this ng
     
    Allodoxaphobia, Jan 17, 2006
    #15
  16. Marvin

    Bill Funk Guest

    On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 23:16:24 GMT, Ryan <>
    wrote:

    >Marvin wrote:
    >> Perhaps it is my imagination, but there does seem to be many fewer
    >> postings on this NG than at this time in recent years, from people who
    >> got digicams as gifts and who ask rather basic questions. If I'm right,
    >> it is a sign that the use of digicams has become as routine for the
    >> average person as film photography.

    >
    >I've been reading for about two years and I thought it seemed like
    >there were more and more newb questions and now fewer and fewer
    >answers from experts discussing the nuts and bolts of how things worked.
    >
    >-Ryan


    Maybe that's because the questions are along the lines of going into a
    camera club meeting, and asking, "How do I use the aperture setting?"
    (A question asked here, BTW)
    Manuals and books are there for a reason. If the user wants a course
    in basoic photography, there are many available, along with books that
    can be used in place of classes (many have already been sugested
    here).
    But more basic is the problem of people not lurking for a while, to
    see if the question is already being answered. Some people think their
    question is the first time that particular question has been asked.

    I have no problem with people wanting to learn the basics. I am a
    little surprised that so many people don't wan tto learn the basics,
    though,and instead want to learn only how ot solve their *immediate*
    problem, then disappear until the next problem comes up, and ask
    another question. The idea of actually learning the basics is lost on
    such people. Yes, it takes some work to find and learn them, but that
    seems to be the problem; that's work.

    Or, maybe I'm all wrong. It happens.

    --
    Bill Funk
    Replace "g" with "a"
    funktionality.blogspot.com
     
    Bill Funk, Jan 17, 2006
    #16
  17. Marvin

    dwight Guest

    "Jim Townsend" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Marvin wrote:
    >
    >> Perhaps it is my imagination, but there does seem to be many fewer
    >> postings on this NG than at this time in recent years, from people
    >> who got digicams as gifts and who ask rather basic questions. If I'm
    >> right, it is a sign that the use of digicams has become as routine for
    >> the average person as film photography.

    >
    > The market could be reaching saturation. Computers and digicams
    > have been dropping in price steadily. Both are pretty affordable
    > now.
    >
    > Everyone who would want a digital camera might currently have one :)
    > People purchasing digital cameras now will be on their second+ unit.
    > This could explain why there aren't that many 'new' users.


    Oh, I don't know...

    In my circles, I'm the "photographer." Not that I'm any damn good, just that
    I almost always have a camera with me and I'm the one at any family function
    who's taking pictures.

    Couple of folks at work just picked up digital cameras. Not knowing any
    better, they come to ME with questions. Luckily, I know better - those
    questions I cannot easily answer are referred to websites or manuals that
    have the answers.

    At this last Christmas gathering, my wife and I were amazed at the number of
    digicams popping up in the family, especially among the youngest generation.
    I have several candid group shots, showing half a dozen cameras being aimed
    at the person opening a gift, looking almost like a presidential press
    conference.

    The question is not whether people are still buying digital cameras (they
    obviously are), but how many of them will stick with it and try to better
    their results over time. How many of them will truly want to learn, and how
    many will tire of the novelty and put the camera away, saying "This sucks."

    dwight
     
    dwight, Jan 17, 2006
    #17
  18. Marvin

    Marvin Guest

    rafe b wrote:
    > "Bolshoy Huy" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >
    >>nope, perhaps simply snapping photos, dropping them off in a lab, and
    >>picking up prints, is easier for some folks(over 65, no $ for a
    >>computer, etc.)
    >>Cheaper also to shoot film as an entry-level film SLR could be bought
    >>for $200-$300, but an digital SLR goes for $600-$999.
    >>unless you shoot hundreds of photos, a film P&S could do just fine.

    >
    >
    >
    > Lots of folks still happy with their film point & shoot cameras. My wife is
    > one of them. She's completely uninterested in "moving up" to a digicam.
    >
    >
    > rafe b
    > www.terrapinphoto.com
    >
    >

    My wife felt that way, until I bought her a digi-P&S that worked much like her P&S film
    camera. She said she would also keep using her film camera, but she hasn't. She has
    become proficient at editing images and making slide shows. We travelled to Viet Nam and
    Cambodia last year, and she was so into digicamera usage that she took even more photos
    than I did.

    Maybe you can call it "familiarity breeds content".
     
    Marvin, Jan 17, 2006
    #18
  19. Marvin

    Marvin Guest

    Eddie wrote:
    > "Marvin" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >
    >>Perhaps it is my imagination, but there does seem to be many fewer
    >>postings on this NG than at this time in recent years, from people who got
    >>digicams as gifts and who ask rather basic questions. If I'm right, it is
    >>a sign that the use of digicams has become as routine for the average
    >>person as film photography.

    >
    >
    > Nope! I am here in the UK having bought a digital camera and underwater
    > housing. I have loads of questions!
    >
    > Practising on my grandchildren at the moment before going off the the Middle
    > East for a holiday next month.
    >
    > Got Nimh batteries (4 in number) and wondering how I will manage them.
    > Recharging while still fairly full causes problems I understand.


    No. NIMH batteries have no memory. But you should have at least two sets and a
    dual-voltage charger and plug adaptors for travelling.
    >
    > I wear glasses but do not usually need sight corrected lens on my dive mask.
    > Camera screen a little smaller though! :-(
    >
    > Have two 512 mb SD cards plus one 32. Enough for a week away on a diving
    > liveaboard with no laptop?


    As you become more familiar with digital photography, you will probably take more and more
    pictures, since they cost nothing until you print the good ones. Wait and see if you need
    more memory cards, or a device like the ones that have a HD and provision for connecting
    to memory cards. On longer trips, you can often find a camera shop that will copy files
    from your cards onto a CD.
    >
    > Newbie Eddie
    >
    >
     
    Marvin, Jan 17, 2006
    #19
  20. Marvin

    Marvin Guest

    Bill Funk wrote:
    > On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 23:16:24 GMT, Ryan <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Marvin wrote:
    >>
    >>>Perhaps it is my imagination, but there does seem to be many fewer
    >>>postings on this NG than at this time in recent years, from people who
    >>>got digicams as gifts and who ask rather basic questions. If I'm right,
    >>>it is a sign that the use of digicams has become as routine for the
    >>>average person as film photography.

    >>
    >>I've been reading for about two years and I thought it seemed like
    >>there were more and more newb questions and now fewer and fewer
    >>answers from experts discussing the nuts and bolts of how things worked.
    >>
    >>-Ryan

    >
    >
    > Maybe that's because the questions are along the lines of going into a
    > camera club meeting, and asking, "How do I use the aperture setting?"
    > (A question asked here, BTW)
    > Manuals and books are there for a reason. If the user wants a course
    > in basoic photography, there are many available, along with books that
    > can be used in place of classes (many have already been sugested
    > here).
    > But more basic is the problem of people not lurking for a while, to
    > see if the question is already being answered. Some people think their
    > question is the first time that particular question has been asked.
    >
    > I have no problem with people wanting to learn the basics. I am a
    > little surprised that so many people don't wan tto learn the basics,
    > though,and instead want to learn only how ot solve their *immediate*
    > problem, then disappear until the next problem comes up, and ask
    > another question. The idea of actually learning the basics is lost on
    > such people. Yes, it takes some work to find and learn them, but that
    > seems to be the problem; that's work.
    >
    > Or, maybe I'm all wrong. It happens.


    And there are the ones with a new or borrowed camera who wait until they are far away from
    home and ready to take a pictutre. Then they ask the nearest person for advice.
     
    Marvin, Jan 17, 2006
    #20
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