Feedback on Canon EF-S 10-22mm Lens for Taking Pictures of Circuit Boards

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Will, Jun 10, 2005.

  1. Will

    Will Guest

    I posted recently about an application taking pictures of circuit
    boards with a digital camera, that required the pictures to have
    enough detail that you could make out printing on each chip.
    The dimensions of each board would normally be under 2 ft by 2
    ft. There were many good responses in that original thread, and
    several of the posters recommended the Canon 20D as a potential
    camera.

    I settled on the Canon 20D, and now I am trying to identify a
    good lens for wide angle macro. I would like feedback on the
    Canon EF-S 10-22mm f3.5-4.5 USM zoom lens, which advertises that
    it can focus in as little as 9.5". If we put the camera onto a
    downward facing stand, about two to three feet away from the
    board being photographed, what is the size range of the circuit
    boards that this zoom range could capture? Any help in
    identifying the correct lens sizing and distance from the boards
    being photographed is appreciated. We are thinking of using
    something like Cloud Dome to create a uniform lighting around the
    boards, and this will probably require that we get the
    manufacturer to create a custom Cloud Dome, sized to our
    application. So I need to start thinking about the specific
    details of how far the camera will from the board.

    Here is an eBay auction for the Canon 10-22mm EF-S lens, which
    gives some additional technical details:

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4687&item=7519463906&rd=1

    --
    Will
    Internet: westes at earthbroadcast.com
    Will, Jun 10, 2005
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 09:59:10 -0700, "Will"
    <> wrote:

    >I posted recently about an application taking pictures of circuit
    >boards with a digital camera, that required the pictures to have
    >enough detail that you could make out printing on each chip.
    >The dimensions of each board would normally be under 2 ft by 2
    >ft. There were many good responses in that original thread, and
    >several of the posters recommended the Canon 20D as a potential
    >camera.
    >
    >I settled on the Canon 20D, and now I am trying to identify a
    >good lens for wide angle macro. I would like feedback on the
    >Canon EF-S 10-22mm f3.5-4.5 USM zoom lens, which advertises that
    >it can focus in as little as 9.5". If we put the camera onto a
    >downward facing stand, about two to three feet away from the
    >board being photographed, what is the size range of the circuit
    >boards that this zoom range could capture? Any help in
    >identifying the correct lens sizing and distance from the boards
    >being photographed is appreciated. We are thinking of using
    >something like Cloud Dome to create a uniform lighting around the
    >boards, and this will probably require that we get the
    >manufacturer to create a custom Cloud Dome, sized to our
    >application. So I need to start thinking about the specific
    >details of how far the camera will from the board.
    >


    Look at a real lens not the EF-S toy. The 17-40 F4.0L should do what
    you want.

    http://consumer.usa.canon.com/ir/controller?act=ModelDetailAct&fcategoryid=148&modelid=8940

    By it from a reputable dealer not on eBay while you are at it.

    It will focus to 11 inches.

    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=279582&is=USA


    ************************************************************
    "Give me the liberty to know, to utter, and to argue freely,
    according to conscience, above all liberties."

    John Milton from
    "The Liberty of Unlicensed Printing"
    1644
    John A. Stovall, Jun 10, 2005
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 09:59:10 -0700, "Will"
    <> wrote:

    >I posted recently about an application taking pictures of circuit
    >boards with a digital camera, that required the pictures to have
    >enough detail that you could make out printing on each chip.
    >The dimensions of each board would normally be under 2 ft by 2
    >ft. There were many good responses in that original thread, and
    >several of the posters recommended the Canon 20D as a potential
    >camera.
    >
    >I settled on the Canon 20D, and now I am trying to identify a
    >good lens for wide angle macro. I would like feedback on the
    >Canon EF-S 10-22mm f3.5-4.5 USM zoom lens, which advertises that
    >it can focus in as little as 9.5". If we put the camera onto a
    >downward facing stand, about two to three feet away from the
    >board being photographed, what is the size range of the circuit
    >boards that this zoom range could capture? Any help in
    >identifying the correct lens sizing and distance from the boards
    >being photographed is appreciated. We are thinking of using
    >something like Cloud Dome to create a uniform lighting around the
    >boards, and this will probably require that we get the
    >manufacturer to create a custom Cloud Dome, sized to our
    >application. So I need to start thinking about the specific
    >details of how far the camera will from the board.


    Look at the Canon 100 macro for a sharp flat lens. You will want flat.

    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=194451&is=USA

    Since you'll be shooting from a tripod (you will won't you?). Make
    sure you have a level so the board you are photographing is parallel
    to the sensor plane in the camera. Have you thought about the tripod?


    ************************************************************
    "Give me the liberty to know, to utter, and to argue freely,
    according to conscience, above all liberties."

    John Milton from
    "The Liberty of Unlicensed Printing"
    1644
    John A. Stovall, Jun 10, 2005
    #3
  4. In article <>, Will
    <> writes
    >I posted recently about an application taking pictures of circuit
    >boards with a digital camera, that required the pictures to have
    >enough detail that you could make out printing on each chip.
    >The dimensions of each board would normally be under 2 ft by 2
    >ft. There were many good responses in that original thread, and
    >several of the posters recommended the Canon 20D as a potential
    >camera.
    >
    >I settled on the Canon 20D, and now I am trying to identify a
    >good lens for wide angle macro. I would like feedback on the
    >Canon EF-S 10-22mm f3.5-4.5 USM zoom lens, which advertises that
    >it can focus in as little as 9.5". If we put the camera onto a
    >downward facing stand, about two to three feet away from the
    >board being photographed, what is the size range of the circuit
    >boards that this zoom range could capture? Any help in
    >identifying the correct lens sizing and distance from the boards
    >being photographed is appreciated. We are thinking of using
    >something like Cloud Dome to create a uniform lighting around the
    >boards, and this will probably require that we get the
    >manufacturer to create a custom Cloud Dome, sized to our
    >application. So I need to start thinking about the specific
    >details of how far the camera will from the board.
    >
    >Here is an eBay auction for the Canon 10-22mm EF-S lens, which
    >gives some additional technical details:
    >
    >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4687&item=7519463
    >906&rd=1
    >

    I suspect you may be disappointed; the maximum magnification of this
    lens is 0.167 (1/6). Thus at maximum magnification you will fill the
    frame with a 6" ruler (actually a little less than all of it - say 5.5"
    of it).

    You may also find the resolution is not the very highest; zooms are not
    at their best when used at extreme close up, though they are much better
    than they were 20 years ago.

    The right lens for you depends on how great a magnification you want.
    However, if you want 1.0 magnification, go for a fixed focal length
    macro lens. A macro lens designed for the purpose should in fact perform
    well a higher magnification than this - though you will need extension
    tubes to focus closer.

    Tell us in more detail what you want to do and we may be able to help
    more.

    David
    --
    David Littlewood
    David Littlewood, Jun 10, 2005
    #4
  5. Will

    TAFKAB Guest

    "Will" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >I posted recently about an application taking pictures of circuit
    > boards with a digital camera, that required the pictures to have
    > enough detail that you could make out printing on each chip.
    > The dimensions of each board would normally be under 2 ft by 2
    > ft. There were many good responses in that original thread, and
    > several of the posters recommended the Canon 20D as a potential
    > camera.
    >
    > I settled on the Canon 20D, and now I am trying to identify a
    > good lens for wide angle macro. I would like feedback on the
    > Canon EF-S 10-22mm f3.5-4.5 USM zoom lens, which advertises that
    > it can focus in as little as 9.5". If we put the camera onto a
    > downward facing stand, about two to three feet away from the
    > board being photographed, what is the size range of the circuit
    > boards that this zoom range could capture? Any help in
    > identifying the correct lens sizing and distance from the boards
    > being photographed is appreciated. We are thinking of using
    > something like Cloud Dome to create a uniform lighting around the
    > boards, and this will probably require that we get the
    > manufacturer to create a custom Cloud Dome, sized to our
    > application. So I need to start thinking about the specific
    > details of how far the camera will from the board.
    >
    > Here is an eBay auction for the Canon 10-22mm EF-S lens, which
    > gives some additional technical details:
    >


    Why would someone point to an EBay auction as a source of technical details
    for a Canon lens?

    Hmmm.....

    SPAM!

    >
    > --
    > Will
    > Internet: westes at earthbroadcast.com
    >
    >
    TAFKAB, Jun 10, 2005
    #5
  6. Will

    Neil Ellwood Guest

    On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 09:59:10 -0700, Will wrote:

    > I posted recently about an application taking pictures of circuit
    > boards with a digital camera, that required the pictures to have
    > enough detail that you could make out printing on each chip.
    > The dimensions of each board would normally be under 2 ft by 2
    > ft. There were many good responses in that original thread, and
    > several of the posters recommended the Canon 20D as a potential
    > camera.
    >
    > I settled on the Canon 20D, and now I am trying to identify a
    > good lens for wide angle macro. I would like feedback on the
    > Canon EF-S 10-22mm f3.5-4.5 USM zoom lens, which advertises that
    > it can focus in as little as 9.5". If we put the camera onto a
    > downward facing stand, about two to three feet away from the
    > board being photographed, what is the size range of the circuit
    > boards that this zoom range could capture? Any help in
    > identifying the correct lens sizing and distance from the boards
    > being photographed is appreciated. We are thinking of using
    > something like Cloud Dome to create a uniform lighting around the
    > boards, and this will probably require that we get the
    > manufacturer to create a custom Cloud Dome, sized to our
    > application. So I need to start thinking about the specific
    > details of how far the camera will from the board.
    >

    I suggest getting a proper macro lens around 100mm. This will give better
    results than a zoom and more room between the camera and subject to work
    in.

    --
    neil
    delete delete to reply
    Neil Ellwood, Jun 10, 2005
    #6
  7. Will

    Neil Ellwood Guest

    On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 12:28:13 -0500, John A. Stovall wrote:

    > Since you'll be shooting from a tripod (you will won't you?). Make
    > sure you have a level so the board you are photographing is parallel
    > to the sensor plane in the camera. Have you thought about the tripod?

    A copy stand would work better than a tripod and be more convenient. Use
    the level both on the board and the camera.

    --
    neil
    delete delete to reply
    Neil Ellwood, Jun 10, 2005
    #7
  8. Will

    Tony Hwang Guest

    Re: Feedback on Canon EF-S 10-22mm Lens for Taking Pictures of CircuitBoards

    Neil Ellwood wrote:
    > On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 09:59:10 -0700, Will wrote:
    >
    >
    >>I posted recently about an application taking pictures of circuit
    >>boards with a digital camera, that required the pictures to have
    >>enough detail that you could make out printing on each chip.
    >>The dimensions of each board would normally be under 2 ft by 2
    >>ft. There were many good responses in that original thread, and
    >>several of the posters recommended the Canon 20D as a potential
    >>camera.
    >>
    >>I settled on the Canon 20D, and now I am trying to identify a
    >>good lens for wide angle macro. I would like feedback on the
    >>Canon EF-S 10-22mm f3.5-4.5 USM zoom lens, which advertises that
    >>it can focus in as little as 9.5". If we put the camera onto a
    >>downward facing stand, about two to three feet away from the
    >>board being photographed, what is the size range of the circuit
    >>boards that this zoom range could capture? Any help in
    >>identifying the correct lens sizing and distance from the boards
    >>being photographed is appreciated. We are thinking of using
    >>something like Cloud Dome to create a uniform lighting around the
    >>boards, and this will probably require that we get the
    >>manufacturer to create a custom Cloud Dome, sized to our
    >>application. So I need to start thinking about the specific
    >>details of how far the camera will from the board.
    >>

    >
    > I suggest getting a proper macro lens around 100mm. This will give better
    > results than a zoom and more room between the camera and subject to work
    > in.
    >

    Hi,
    Macro lens is for a job like that, IMO.
    WA zoom is not enough for coverage at proper magnification.
    Tony
    Tony
    Tony Hwang, Jun 10, 2005
    #8
  9. Will

    wilt Guest

    A wide angle focal length is the WRONG way to go...points on the
    periphery of the board will be quite different in perspective than the
    center...look at how wide angle exaggerates the nose on the face when
    you shoot a portrait with a very wide angle lens! Furthermore, there
    is the issue that you cannot properly light the thing as easily.

    Use of a longer focal length preserves the perspective better and
    leaves room for lighting more easily. The best way to get the longer
    focal length to focus more closely is simply to use a very short
    extension tube to the allow the internal focusing gears to move the
    lens far enough away from the 'film plane' for the closer-than-normal
    close focus distance of the lens design.

    --Wilt
    wilt, Jun 11, 2005
    #9
  10. Will

    Frank ess Guest

    wilt wrote:
    > A wide angle focal length is the WRONG way to go...points on the
    > periphery of the board will be quite different in perspective than
    > the
    > center...look at how wide angle exaggerates the nose on the face
    > when
    > you shoot a portrait with a very wide angle lens! Furthermore,
    > there
    > is the issue that you cannot properly light the thing as easily.
    >
    > Use of a longer focal length preserves the perspective better and
    > leaves room for lighting more easily. The best way to get the
    > longer
    > focal length to focus more closely is simply to use a very short
    > extension tube to the allow the internal focusing gears to move the
    > lens far enough away from the 'film plane' for the
    > closer-than-normal
    > close focus distance of the lens design.
    >
    > --Wilt


    I put a newspaper with box scores, a carpenter's (?) square, and a
    wiring diagram on the carpet, hovered an 8MP camera over it, and shot
    a few exposures at 1/250 and f/5.6 or so. I learned:

    A 90mm Macro makes a nice picture from about four feet away, but
    covers less than a fourth of a two-foot-square area (specified by the
    OP); you need less lens length, as lighting within a tent or dome will
    get unwieldy.

    The 10-22mm EF-S lens will cover the area easily from a close distance
    at 10mm, but will yield distorted images relative to reality; features
    may be visible but relationships of size, shape, and direction are not
    precise.

    At 16 and 22mm, that lens covers the area from proportionately greater
    distances with less distortion.

    http://www.fototime.com/inv/632AF0A9C0A81AB


    --
    Frank ess
    Frank ess, Jun 11, 2005
    #10
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