Fax over IP Providers

Discussion in 'VOIP' started by Laura, Sep 27, 2006.

  1. Laura

    Laura Guest

    hello, i would like to know if there are Fax over ip providers, and where I
    could get more information about it.
    Thank you
    Laura
    Laura, Sep 27, 2006
    #1
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  2. "Laura" <> wrote in message
    news:efdhi6$otk$...
    > hello, i would like to know if there are Fax over ip providers, and where
    > I > could get more information about it.


    Retail or wholesale?

    Generally speaking, fax over IP is unreliable unless the T.38 protocol is
    supported (by _both_ sides). The list at
    http://www.voip-info.org/wiki/view/VOIP Service Providers T.38 represents an
    attempt to track T.38 support by PSTN termination providers, and is the best
    source I can point you to. On your side, you'll need an suitable ATA: the
    Linksys SPA-2102 (two ports) and the GrandStream HT386 (one port) are said
    to support T.38, but I've never tested this feature. Anyway, here's a
    supplier for both such devices that I have found reliable and inexpensive
    (also for non-US shipments):

    http://www.telephonyware.com/telephonyware/tw00329.html
    http://www.telephonyware.com/telephonyware/tw00219.html

    Enzo
    Enzo Michelangeli, Sep 27, 2006
    #2
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  3. Laura

    Guest

    I've sent faxes at 9600 baud with ViaTalk.

    Thanks,

    Thomas
    See review at http://www.betterphone.org

    Laura wrote:
    > hello, i would like to know if there are Fax over ip providers, and where I
    > could get more information about it.
    > Thank you
    > Laura
    , Sep 28, 2006
    #3
  4. Laura

    Laura Guest

    Thanks for your help, Im going to check now
    >
    Laura, Sep 28, 2006
    #4
  5. Laura

    Laura Guest

    so could you send many fax at the same time? or does it work like a
    conventional fax?what is the difference?
    Thanks

    <> escribió en el mensaje
    news:...
    > I've sent faxes at 9600 baud with ViaTalk.
    >
    > Thanks,
    >
    > Thomas
    > See review at http://www.betterphone.org
    >
    > Laura wrote:
    >> hello, i would like to know if there are Fax over ip providers, and where
    >> I
    >> could get more information about it.
    >> Thank you
    >> Laura

    >
    Laura, Sep 28, 2006
    #5
  6. Laura

    Laura Guest

    I would be more interested on wholesale providers...
    Ive checked the links and Ive checked the ATA systems.. I understand that
    they digitise the fax signal.
    But I was thinking on something more like skype.. But maybe Im dreaming too
    much...
    If I have an Broadband line in my house, and 3 computers connected to
    internet.They could be making 3 skype phone calls, but could they be sending
    3 fax at the same time?
    WOuld this Fax over IP system be faster?, or send various at the same time?
    Thanks for your time

    "Enzo Michelangeli" <-ip.com> escribió en el mensaje
    news:451a85fb$1@127.0.0.1...
    > "Laura" <> wrote in message
    > news:efdhi6$otk$...
    >> hello, i would like to know if there are Fax over ip providers, and where
    >> I > could get more information about it.

    >
    > Retail or wholesale?
    >
    > Generally speaking, fax over IP is unreliable unless the T.38 protocol is
    > supported (by _both_ sides). The list at
    > http://www.voip-info.org/wiki/view/VOIP Service Providers T.38 represents
    > an attempt to track T.38 support by PSTN termination providers, and is the
    > best source I can point you to. On your side, you'll need an suitable ATA:
    > the Linksys SPA-2102 (two ports) and the GrandStream HT386 (one port) are
    > said to support T.38, but I've never tested this feature. Anyway, here's a
    > supplier for both such devices that I have found reliable and inexpensive
    > (also for non-US shipments):
    >
    > http://www.telephonyware.com/telephonyware/tw00329.html
    > http://www.telephonyware.com/telephonyware/tw00219.html
    >
    > Enzo
    >
    Laura, Sep 28, 2006
    #6
  7. "Laura" <> wrote in message
    news:efg3ic$7tb$...
    >I would be more interested on wholesale providers...
    > Ive checked the links and Ive checked the ATA systems.. I understand that
    > they digitise the fax signal.


    Yes, and that's quite silly if you think about it, because the modem inside
    the fax machine works hard to convert the digitally encoded data to analog
    form...

    An ATA can provide one or more ports equivalent to telephone lines ("FXS
    ports") to which you may connect telephone sets; and/or one or more ports
    equivalent to telephone sets ("FXO ports") that can be connected to a
    telephone line.

    > But I was thinking on something more like skype.. But maybe Im dreaming
    > too much...


    If you just want to send picture from a PC to another PC, all you need is a
    scanner producing an image file that you will then send in one of many
    possible ways: for example, e-mail or Skype-based file transfer. The
    problems begin when you want to send your pictures to actual fax machines
    connected to the PSTN (Public Switched Telephone Network).

    > If I have an Broadband line in my house, and 3 computers connected to
    > internet.They could be making 3 skype phone calls, but could they be
    > sending 3 fax at the same time?


    Well, IP is a packetized protocol, so you can share the bandwidth among
    multiple independent sessions.

    > WOuld this Fax over IP system be faster?, or send various at the same
    > time?


    Yes, but more often than not you can't just attach your fax machine(s) to
    FXS ports of an ATA registered to the server of some PSTN termination
    provider, even using uncompressing codecs such as G.711, because the fax
    protocol is very sensitive to latency (propagation delay) and especially
    jitter (random fluctuations of the latency), which on the other hand are
    well tolerated by the human ear. The result is that connections that "sound
    good" to a human may sometimes work for fax transmission, and sometimes
    not... That's why several other mechanisms have been devised to send fax
    messages over IP, ranging from store-and-forward systems such as
    email-to-fax gateways (check out the free service by www.tpc.int ) to the
    T.38 protocol for realtime fax transmission.

    My impression is that not much effort is currently spent on fax-over-IP
    because, in the age of Internet, fax technology is increasingly perceived as
    a barbarous relic of the past...

    Cheers --

    Enzo
    Enzo Michelangeli, Sep 28, 2006
    #7
  8. Laura

    Laura Guest

    Thanks for all your answers, I agree that fax will disappear soon...so I
    understand that they dont put effort on it.
    So regarding all these companies send2fax or jblast ... etc... how can they
    send all these big amount of fax so quick?
    I was convinced that they would do it over ip..

    Laura



    "Enzo Michelangeli" <-ip.com> escribió en el mensaje
    news:451b9d5b$1@127.0.0.1...
    > "Laura" <> wrote in message
    > news:efg3ic$7tb$...
    >>I would be more interested on wholesale providers...
    >> Ive checked the links and Ive checked the ATA systems.. I understand that
    >> they digitise the fax signal.

    >
    > Yes, and that's quite silly if you think about it, because the modem
    > inside the fax machine works hard to convert the digitally encoded data to
    > analog form...
    >
    > An ATA can provide one or more ports equivalent to telephone lines ("FXS
    > ports") to which you may connect telephone sets; and/or one or more ports
    > equivalent to telephone sets ("FXO ports") that can be connected to a
    > telephone line.
    >
    >> But I was thinking on something more like skype.. But maybe Im dreaming
    >> too much...

    >
    > If you just want to send picture from a PC to another PC, all you need is
    > a scanner producing an image file that you will then send in one of many
    > possible ways: for example, e-mail or Skype-based file transfer. The
    > problems begin when you want to send your pictures to actual fax machines
    > connected to the PSTN (Public Switched Telephone Network).
    >
    >> If I have an Broadband line in my house, and 3 computers connected to
    >> internet.They could be making 3 skype phone calls, but could they be
    >> sending 3 fax at the same time?

    >
    > Well, IP is a packetized protocol, so you can share the bandwidth among
    > multiple independent sessions.
    >
    >> WOuld this Fax over IP system be faster?, or send various at the same
    >> time?

    >
    > Yes, but more often than not you can't just attach your fax machine(s) to
    > FXS ports of an ATA registered to the server of some PSTN termination
    > provider, even using uncompressing codecs such as G.711, because the fax
    > protocol is very sensitive to latency (propagation delay) and especially
    > jitter (random fluctuations of the latency), which on the other hand are
    > well tolerated by the human ear. The result is that connections that
    > "sound good" to a human may sometimes work for fax transmission, and
    > sometimes not... That's why several other mechanisms have been devised to
    > send fax messages over IP, ranging from store-and-forward systems such as
    > email-to-fax gateways (check out the free service by www.tpc.int ) to the
    > T.38 protocol for realtime fax transmission.
    >
    > My impression is that not much effort is currently spent on fax-over-IP
    > because, in the age of Internet, fax technology is increasingly perceived
    > as a barbarous relic of the past...
    >
    > Cheers --
    >
    > Enzo
    >
    Laura, Sep 28, 2006
    #8
  9. "Laura" <> wrote in message
    news:efg8o1$k98$...
    > Thanks for all your answers, I agree that fax will disappear soon...so I
    > understand that they dont put effort on it.
    > So regarding all these companies send2fax or jblast ... etc... how can
    > they send all these big amount of fax so quick?
    > I was convinced that they would do it over ip..


    They probably have a bunch of fax/modems connected to the PSTN, or even a
    few of them operated sequentially (the broadcast doesn't need to be
    realtime). After all, even if they did it over IP, the IP-to-PSTN
    termination provider would need conventional (i.e., TDM or analog) PSTN
    ports in order to call standard fax machines...

    Enzo
    Enzo Michelangeli, Sep 28, 2006
    #9
  10. Laura

    Laura Guest

    thanks Enzo for your help
    Laura
    "Enzo Michelangeli" <-ip.com> escribió en el mensaje
    news:451bb93e$1@127.0.0.1...
    > "Laura" <> wrote in message
    > news:efg8o1$k98$...
    >> Thanks for all your answers, I agree that fax will disappear soon...so I
    >> understand that they dont put effort on it.
    >> So regarding all these companies send2fax or jblast ... etc... how can
    >> they send all these big amount of fax so quick?
    >> I was convinced that they would do it over ip..

    >
    > They probably have a bunch of fax/modems connected to the PSTN, or even a
    > few of them operated sequentially (the broadcast doesn't need to be
    > realtime). After all, even if they did it over IP, the IP-to-PSTN
    > termination provider would need conventional (i.e., TDM or analog) PSTN
    > ports in order to call standard fax machines...
    >
    > Enzo
    >
    Laura, Sep 28, 2006
    #10
  11. Laura

    Rick Merrill Guest

    Laura wrote:
    > hello, i would like to know if there are Fax over ip providers, and where I
    > could get more information about it.
    > Thank you
    > Laura
    >
    >


    Yes, FAX can be used over VoIP. However, you must get a list of
    compatible FAX machines from your VoIP provider as not all FAX
    machines work with all VoIP services (because of combinations of
    compression).
    Rick Merrill, Sep 28, 2006
    #11
  12. Laura

    Guest

    Laura,

    I used my regular fax, an HP All-in-One printer/scanner/fax. It only
    sends one fax at a time. it does tie up the phone line though, which
    in my case is VoIP (ViaTalk). They also sell a second line as fax,
    though I don't know what the technical difference is.

    I looked into fax services, too, where I would email the document to a
    certain address, but I don't send faxes often enough to make it worth
    while, most people have email. Some, though, like Doctor's offices and
    health insurance only accept faxes, so when I need to send a fax I
    really need it, but I could compromise on the speed. 9600 baud is
    somewhat slow, but if you don't send 50 page documents it's good
    enough.

    I'll check what the baud rate would be on the second line.

    Thanks,

    Thomas
    http://www.betterphone.org

    Laura wrote:
    > so could you send many fax at the same time? or does it work like a
    > conventional fax?what is the difference?
    > Thanks
    >
    > <> escribió en el mensaje
    > news:...
    > > I've sent faxes at 9600 baud with ViaTalk.
    > >
    > > Thanks,
    > >
    > > Thomas
    > > See review at http://www.betterphone.org
    > >
    > > Laura wrote:
    > >> hello, i would like to know if there are Fax over ip providers, and where
    > >> I
    > >> could get more information about it.
    > >> Thank you
    > >> Laura

    > >
    , Sep 29, 2006
    #12
  13. Laura

    Gopi Guest

    Gopi, Sep 29, 2006
    #13
  14. Laura

    Guest

    9600 baud is the maximum speed for the second line as well.

    wrote:
    > Laura,
    >
    > I used my regular fax, an HP All-in-One printer/scanner/fax. It only
    > sends one fax at a time. it does tie up the phone line though, which
    > in my case is VoIP (ViaTalk). They also sell a second line as fax,
    > though I don't know what the technical difference is.
    >
    > I looked into fax services, too, where I would email the document to a
    > certain address, but I don't send faxes often enough to make it worth
    > while, most people have email. Some, though, like Doctor's offices and
    > health insurance only accept faxes, so when I need to send a fax I
    > really need it, but I could compromise on the speed. 9600 baud is
    > somewhat slow, but if you don't send 50 page documents it's good
    > enough.
    >
    > I'll check what the baud rate would be on the second line.
    >
    > Thanks,
    >
    > Thomas
    > http://www.betterphone.org
    >
    > Laura wrote:
    > > so could you send many fax at the same time? or does it work like a
    > > conventional fax?what is the difference?
    > > Thanks
    > >
    > > <> escribió en el mensaje
    > > news:...
    > > > I've sent faxes at 9600 baud with ViaTalk.
    > > >
    > > > Thanks,
    > > >
    > > > Thomas
    > > > See review at http://www.betterphone.org
    > > >
    > > > Laura wrote:
    > > >> hello, i would like to know if there are Fax over ip providers, and where
    > > >> I
    > > >> could get more information about it.
    > > >> Thank you
    > > >> Laura
    > > >
    , Sep 30, 2006
    #14
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